Donald Trump and Stacy Keibler subvert the language of war

Trump Keibler

Trump is toast.

He may not know it yet, but Donald Trump has destroyed his always meager chances of being his party’s presidential nominee.

How did he do that? By abusing language to self-aggrandize. Specifically, he denied that former POW Sen. John McCain is a hero.

Here’s what the uber-narcissist Trump blustered when asked by Republican political operative Frank Luntz about McCain:

How desperate for attention do you have to be to subvert the language of war to bolster your own self-esteem?

Trump: But he lost and I never liked him much after that ’cause I don’t like losers…

Luntz: “He’s a war hero. He’s a war hero …”

Luntz: “Five and half years in a Vietnamese prison camp …”

Trump: “He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured…”

What’s the truth? According to the Washington Post:

It was the spring of 1968 and Donald Trump had it good.

He was 21 years old and handsome with a full head of hair. He avoided the Vietnam War draft [4 medical deferments for a bone spur in his foot] on his way to earning an Ivy League degree. He was fond of fancy dinners, beautiful women and outrageous clubs…

More than 8,000 miles away, John McCain sat in a tiny, squalid North Vietnamese prison cell. The Navy pilot’s body was broken from a plane crash, starvation, botched operations and months of torture.

As Trump was preparing to take Manhattan, McCain was trying to relearn how to walk.

Apparently, in Trump’s mind, a hero is soldier who doesn’t get captured, even if he has to evade the draft and hide out in nightclubs to do so.

Similarly in actress Stacy Keibler’s mind, she’s a warrior because she had a homebirth.

Keibler told celebrity homebirth advocate Ricki Lake:

“I felt like we went to war together. I kept saying, ‘Ava’s a warrior. I’m a warrior.’ It was one of my mantras that I would say. Then when she came out, I feel like we had this bond that we had just fought together,”

Indeed:

… Keibler says she chose to stay extra healthy during her pregnancy, to give her the stamina she anticipated needing for childbirth. She and her husband chose a midwife and doula who had the “right energy” and says she also wrote up a two-page birth plan, with instructions on what to do if she was required to go to the hospital.

Just like Trump chose to stay extra healthy by avoiding service in Vietnam!

I have news for Stacy Keibler: there are real women warriors who put their lives on the line in battle to keep our country safe. For example:

In 2005, Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester, vehicle commander, 617th Military Police Company, Kentucky National Guard, became the first woman to receive the Silver Star award for close quarters combat. Ambushed by insurgents, Hester led her team through the kill zone into a flanking position, where she assaulted a trench line with grenades… When the battle was over, 27 insurgents were dead, six were wounded, and one captured. In part, her citation reads that her actions “saved the lives of numerous convoy members.”

And:

… Army Specialist Monica Lin Brown, received the Silver Star for combat in Afghanistan. Brown’s heroism was evident while providing aid under heavy gunfire to soldiers whose Humvee had been hit by an improvised explosive device (IED) during a convoy. A medic, and only 18 at the time, Brown left the safety of her Humvee to give aid to Specialists Stanson Smith and Larry Spray, who both had suffered life-threatening injuries. With the help of her platoon sergeant, Staff Sergeant Jose Santos, and three other less wounded soldiers from the vehicle, Brown eventually was able to move Smith and Spray away from the burning vehicle. When rounds of ammunition from the truck began exploding, Brown sheltered the injured with her body…

And:

Chief Warrant Officer 3 Lori Hill is the first military woman to be awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for heroism. In March 2006, Hill and another helicopter were flying convoy security for two Bradley vehicles on patrol in a small village. They learned of an attack at a nearby command center involving both U.S. and Iraqi forces … Drawing the fire away from the lead helo, Hill established communications with the ground troops, and provided suppressive fire for troops engaged with the enemy on the ground until they reached safety. On the third pass, a rocket-propelled grenade hit her, damaging the helo’s instrumentation. As she was banking away, the helo took machine gun fire which hit Hill in the foot. The aircraft was losing transmission power, as well as hydraulics, which prevented the copter from hovering, a crucial maneuver for landing. So, with a damaged aircraft and injury, she made an emergency landing at a nearby forward operating base, saving her crew and aircraft.

What did Keibler do to earn her “warrior” status? Absolutely nothing.

She gave birth, which required no effort on her part and would have happened even if she had been in a coma. Oh, and she did it without pain medication, just like most of the mothers who have ever existed, and the majority of women who give birth around the world each and every day.

Real women warriors put their lives in danger to help others, not for self-aggrandizement. Real women warriors take risks to save the lives of strangers; birth warriors put the lives of their precious babies at risk for bragging rights. Real women warriors are selfless; birth warriors are selfish.

How desperate for attention do you have to be to subvert the language of war to bolster your own self-esteem? Apparently you have to be pathetically desperate.

I suspect nearly all of us recognize Trump’s desperation in denying that John McCain’s five years of torture in a prisoner of war camp makes him a hero, while Trump was presumably heroically evading capture by avoiding the draft. It’s pretty obvious that John McCain has more heroism in his little finger than Trump has in his whole body.

But many may not recognize the desperate need for self-aggrandizement demonstrated by Keibler and other natural childbirth advocates who proclaim themselves warriors, and thereby insult the real warriors among us.

Subverting the language of war for self-aggrandizement is ugly when Donald Trump does it, and it’s equally ugly when Stacy Keibler and other natural childbirth advocates do it.

  • toni

    ugh, this man has no filter and is extremely petty. Like an overgrown child.
    Lmao at the “required no effort on her part”. I hope you never said that to one of your patient’s after she’d just given birth! LOL.

    • Medwife

      It does require effort on somebody’s part, no matter what. When they were knocking women out before delivery, babies were indeed born vaginally, but forceps were used all the time. Either somebody pulls or somebody pushes.

  • GiddyUpGo123

    Being a true warrior is all about valor and sacrifice and the kind of bravery that most people never have to summon. You couldn’t compare it to giving birth at home even if you were the only human being involved, but you’re not. None of the women Dr. Amy describes above went into battle with their own baby in their arms. Those who were mothers probably thanked God every day that their babies were safe at home, far away from all of that danger.

    A person who carries a baby into battle isn’t a warrior, she’s an idiot.

  • SuperGDZ

    Good health (even “extra” good health) is not a lifestyle choice! One can choose to do things that improve your chances at good health, although these are fewer and less effective than some people seem to imagine, but nobody can choose never to be struck by disease or injury.

  • Sue

    SO this guy wasn’t defeated before he actually started? Scary concept.

    • Who?

      He said some really terrible things about Mexicans the other day. From this distance the McCain remarks are buying him a lot more negative publicity.

      • demodocus

        He’s a birther too, last time I heard. (For those who don’t know, that’s someone who thinks Pres. Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate is forged and he was really born in Kenya.)

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          Yep, that was what he hinged his whole campaign on last time around.

        • KeeperOfTheBooks

          Which makes no sense anyway. Fan though I’m absolutely not of our current president, his mother was a U.S. citizen, which makes him a citizen even if he was really born on Mars. But I digress.

          • demodocus

            Some conservatives (i.e. Dad at least) think that natural born means you have to be born on US soil, too. He’s been sad his whole life because he was born in Germany (to an American mother).

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Oh jeeze…

            Guess I need to go tell my husband that he’s not a “real” American because he was born in Guam while his parents were in the Navy. /s

          • An Actual Attorney

            Comically, to me, McCain was in fact born in Panama. But that didn’t seem to bother folks.

          • demodocus

            shhhhh. no points out da logic.

    • Young CC Prof

      Trump is on the ticket to make the other candidates look better.

      • Who?

        It’s a little disturbing that this is what it takes…

        At least he stands by what he says, I haven’t heard him utter the egregious ‘I was joking’.

        • GiddyUpGo123

          Actually he did, he totally denied ever saying it. And then he went on to explain himself by saying that he did in fact call John McCain a war hero, in that second sentence, the one that went “he’s a war hero because he was captured.” I guess we’re supposed to overlook the part where he was being sarcastic.

  • Froggggggg

    My 11yo daughter got this question on her Wishbone app (it’s bascially an “either… or…” game): “Who would make a better president?”, and there was a picture of a potato, and one of Donald Trump. She doesn’t really know who Trump is (we’re not in the US), but I was pleased to see her choose the potato.

  • femaleveteran

    Thank you from a female veteran. I was honorably discharged after becoming disabled on duty, I now am a 30-something year old woman who has to walk with a cane constantly on my good days and a wheelchair on my bad ones.

    Due to this, I decided against getting pregnant, as I would have had to spend my pregnancy in a wheelchair, lest the weight gain/awkwardness of a pregnancy cause me to fall and injure the baby or myself, and the same reasons hold true for carrying a baby after it is born. So I guess, according to this bimbo, I will never know what being a “true” warrior is.

    • I say we tag-team her. I’m the one in the medium-dark blue wheelchair with holographic glitter (Color=blue opal. Comes standard. If I’m going to be disabled, I’m going to do it in style!). Done right, she’ll never see what hit her. There are battle plans and there are battle plans. (Feint right and I’ll hand her the vaccine info…)

      Yeah, it won’t happen, but a vet and kin to vets can dream, right?

      • Bombshellrisa

        Oh please please please do it! My disabled Vietnam vet dad will be your driver and my husband’s disabled aunt (polio) loves this sort of thing. That woman can drive her metallic black cherry colored mobility cart and swing her cane if you need back up. She usually swings for anti vaxers but she isn’t too keen on home birthers who belittle others.

        • Metallic black cherry mobility cart? Nice! Love to have them! I have a 4 ft. walking stick made from a branch with a purple suede band and a face carved in it near the top. Got it at Renaissance Fair in Hollister, CA. It works as a shortish but snazzy quarterstaff. It’s backup for the bronze cane.

          Vaccine info, anti-homebirth info. What else?

          • demodocus

            I have access to a 60″ folding white cane. Those suckers have reach, especially if you swing them hard enough for it to separate

          • Bombshellrisa

            Now that sounds stylish! Love it.
            Auntie’s post polio syndrome had left her with little sympathy for anti vaxxers. She had told me she wishes she could chase a couple of the prominent ones down and smack them with her cane.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            I’ve got a brother in law who’s an engineer with the evil genius streak that so many of them have. He also has slightly less than no tolerance for stupid, especially pseudoscientific stupid. I bet he could juice up that mobility cart so that it could chase down any rabid antivaxxer she could want to catch. Or any local cheetahs, for that matter….*giggles evilly*

          • Bombshellrisa

            She is wicked enough to be able to appreciate something like that. Since she lives in woo world Seattle, she had listened to her share of stupid and wouldn’t have to wander far from her own place to find it. Wonder what people would think of a sweet looking senior lady in makeup and pearls roaring up behind them on a mobility cart and shaking her cane at them?

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            Knowing this BIL, I’m sure he could also arrange for some afterburners…:D

          • AmandaKCox
    • moto_librarian

      Thank you for your service and your courage.

  • Amy

    I ate like the biggest earthy-crunchy hippie on the planet when I was pregnant, mainly because it’s how I eat most of the time anyway. I did pilates and low-impact dancing. I got prenatal massage and did all the BS spinning babies positions. All the “choosing” in the world didn’t prevent my c-section for bad presentation.

  • attitude devant

    I despise this business about ‘choosing to stay healthy during pregnancy.’ Nobody could have eaten better and exercised more than I. No tobacco, no alcohol, and plenty of stamina. All this did not prevent the pre-eclampsia and IUGR. Dumb stupid luck, Ms. Keibler, just like your (ahem!) career.

    • Megan

      I had a similar experience. There was not enough kale in my county to prevent my gestational hypertension (teetering dangerously towards preeclampsia) and no amniotic fluid by 37 weeks.

    • Montserrat Blanco

      That happened to me too. Although I was tired the whole pregnancy.

    • Amazed

      Tsk, tsk, those stupid women who chose to become unhealthy! Shame on you, Addi, Montserat, Megan, and everyone else! How dare you show your faces here!

    • Bombshellrisa

      I always think that line is basically a “look at me, I didn’t CAVE and eat all the junk that I craved like the rest of you weak women who will probably just go and get an epidural and formula your poor kids. I am CARE so much more about myself and my baby”. Basically insinuating that women are choosing to get GD, PreE and interventions. Awesome, whatever, but I can remember leaving the MFM after our level 2 ultrasound (where we found out that our baby was very boring) and craving a root beer float in a chilled mug. I absolutely had to have one and yes, I gave in.

      • Amy M

        I definitely decided to have identical twins, with several pre-term labor episodes, just to mess with my family. I achieved that by….um….eating a bag of Baked Lays for dinner once in the first trimester (and then throwing it up).

        • Bombshellrisa

          You probably relaxed the wrong way (laying on the couch) too much during your pregnancy, you should have done prenatal yoga to relax you. Because we know pregnancy affirmations and yoga are the “correct” way to keep your blood pressure down, ward off preterm labor and avoid interventions/snark

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Oh and if you’re Strep B colonized, you don’t need the antibiotics! Bacteria feeds on sugar so cut all sugar out of your diet and it’ll naturally die!

            …got that one from my woo-tastic cousin. Who’s a yoga instructor. I was going to say something but my mom grabbed my shoulder and said “Honey, no. You’ll just waste your time and make yourself angry again.”

          • Daleth

            Your mom is wise. Wiser than me.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Wise or weary of the stupid crap that comes out of my cousin’s mouth and stopped arguing with her herself.

            I’m apparently masochist because I engaged her in an argument about Ebola when she and her husband were convinced it was somehow a government conspiracy. Or, as I pointed out, it could be the basic lack of sanitation and medical care we take for granted. Like Band-Aids.

          • Angharad

            I have that relative! She was convinced that Ebola would be introduced to the United States right after Christmas (can’t interrupt that holiday shopping) and then it would be FEMA death camps for everyone. We don’t really talk.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            You had the FEMA death camp nutters too?! That was the big thing in my home town! All convinced the government was coming to kill them all.

            I kind of burst their bubble with the “it’s about the money!” excuse they always tote out to justify their weird conspiracies with “Dead people don’t pay taxes.” Then they have to scramble for weirder justifications.

            They also have an asinine interpretation of if a disease is airborne or not. They were so sure Ebola would wipe out the entire US. I said I’d come back in a month to say “I told you so” when no one else got infected from that nurse.

            Men in Black had it right when they said people are stupid, panicky creatures.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            Oooooh, I heard that one! Some nutters were protesting outside the nearby medical center about it. Apparently, President Obama introduced it to the US to kill us all off, but if we ate enough Vitamin C we’d be fine.
            Mind you, I’d think that even this president, with all the power of the .gov at his disposal, could manage to do a slightly better job of killing All Teh Americans than killing one African guy who was sick before he got here, but what do I know?
            Likewise, I suppose if you ate a sufficiently massive amount of Vitamin C you’d spend your life stapled to the toilet and therefore unable to go out and see people and get infected, but I’ll opt for handwashing and sensible precautions instead, thanks.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            I took the asshole approach eventually and told people if they were worried about catching a non-airborn disease that they should probably stop licking random things like windows. Because they’re still scared of Ebola despite the negligible risk, therefore I must assume that they have existing risk factors. Therefore, window licking.

            Thank you Carl Sagan for your “Therefore, Dinosaurs” lesson. It makes being a smartass so much more fun.

          • Young CC Prof

            Can you tell Toddler Prof to stop licking windows? He doesn’t listen to me when I say it.

            But seriously. You could catch Ebola by living with or taking care of people who are very sick with it, or by contact with dead bodies. You won’t catch it by casual contact with someone who is asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic.

          • Bombshellrisa

            She must never have read “The Hot Zone”. Or about Ebola, since it’s hardly a new thing.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            That’s the weirdest part. Almost all of my mom’s siblings have read the Hot Zone along with my grandparents. I still need to read it but I got interested in Ebola around the 2000 oubreak. I was about twelve or thirteen and I had never heard of a disease that did what Ebola supposedly did. So I started trying to find more information on it. It was nice to find out Ebola actually doesn’t liquify your organs like so many sensationalist stories claim.

            My mom found the book Level 4: Virus Hunters of the CDC and that’s when I got the information I’d been searching for. Also learned about Lassa Fever and the early days of the HIV pandemic. Very, very good book in my opinion. Not too technical for a layperson like me but doesn’t dumb it down to insulting. Talks a lot about the cultural and political climates that allow these hemorrhagic fevers to spread.

            But I was still wrong despite reading just about everything I could get my hands on about Ebola. I was one of the few non-medical staff that wasn’t having a freakout if Ebola did end up in our hospital and we had good plans for what to do if that happened. Ask all patients coming to the ER if they’d traveled out of the country and where then compare to a list of area Ebola was known to be active at the time or in the past. If they had a sore throat or other early Ebola symptoms, even if they were sure it was Strep, and had visited or come in contact with someone who visited those countries they were immediately assigned to an RN for evaluation. The medical staff were constantly drilled in proper protective gear donning and disposal and then tested. Then if the patient was a likely candidate for Ebola, they were immediately flown to Intermountain Medicdiseases r to be put in isolation and tested in isolated labs.

            If Ebola was suspected, minimal blood work was to be done to prevent staff or lab contamination. It was kind of overkill considering how Ebola spreads but it certainly put our patients and staff at ease to see us being proactive after what happened in Texas. It wasn’t likely we’d ever see a case but all IHC hospital adopted the practices just in case.

            Really, we should be more worried about vaccine preventable diseases making a comeback instead of Ebola and voiced this and was promptly called a shill.

            Someday I’d love to see a check for all my shilling because it’s way overdue.

          • Bombshellrisa

            Wow, just wow.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Sometimes we can’t talk to each other during family reunions or the rest of the family gets involved and things from smart phones, to Wikipedia, peer reviewed papers, and Mercola books end up flying. It’s not pretty.

          • momofone

            Oh my gosh–this works for cancer too!!!

          • Liz Leyden

            And diabetes (type 1 and type 2).

          • momofone

            And if, for some inexplicable reason, it didn’t work, all you have to do is drink lemon juice. Everybody knows “they” know it cures cancer (and other ills), but they don’t want the secret to get out.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            And yet these supposedly greedy to the point of hiding cures for cancer evil peoples still die from cancer. What dedication to keep it a secret to everybody!

          • Liz Leyden

            I knew a man who had cancer, and swore up and down that marijuana oil was curing him. He died of cancer.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            I feel like a terrible human being but I actually, seriously loled at that. And it wasn’t a quiet lol either.

          • Young CC Prof

            I hate cancer scammers. I seriously think cancer lies are the most vile form of quackery. Infectious-disease quackery is more dangerous, and childbirth woo is weirder, but cancer scams are the most disgusting.

          • Roadstergal

            Because lemon juice cures the acid of the cancer and makes it more basic!
            …somehow.

          • Mishimoo

            Magic, obviously!

          • Roadstergal

            Epigenetics.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            You know when we were started learning about epigentics, I was really excited! Now days I’m more likely to roll my eyes when I hear the word after the crunchy world latched on to it with all their pseudoscience bullshit. Same with microbiome.

            Damn woo peddlers and their need to parasitize real scientific work and kill it with them.

          • Roadstergal

            Heh, yeah, I do some work with epigenetics and I used to work on the microbiome. I feel like I now know how actual quantum physicists feel about Deepak-woo.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Let’s see, we find out that the microbiome can help mediate immune system problems depending on the gut flora. Great! Maybe now my cousin that has a chronic C-diff infection because of an immune system disorder can get that fecal bacteria transplant without going to Europe! Wait, you’re talking about c-section and the microbiome now? Wrong C- issue, get back over here! Oh…okay. I guess we’ll let the people with C- continue with their pseudomembrane colitis… I’m sure their bowels won’t perforate while you’re off in the woo world.

          • Roadstergal

            The microbiome is like a sexual partner. There are some definite bad ones, but no single ideal good one for everybody.

          • demodocus

            Some woman at the local yarn shop was going on and on about her ophthalmologist husband’s work with epigenetics, curing strokes, blindness, and autism. (She wanted my Demodocus to try it.) His website is XR whatever, as in before the Rx. I think I strained a muscle rolling my eyes.

          • Young CC Prof

            Curing strokes, blindness and autism? Does he also turn lead into gold? Can he get the stains out of my best dress?

          • demodocus

            and resurrect the dead

          • Roadstergal

            Ischemic stress can cause epigenetic changes, but ‘curing’ strokes by poking at histones makes as much sense to me as curing a gunshot wound by cleaning the blood off of the sofa.

            (I did some post-graduate work in a neuro lab working on strokes, actually, trying to minimize the ischemic penumbra by damping microglial activation. But last I checked, the best treatment for strokes was still prompt administration of a clot-buster…)

          • Please don’t swear…

            I think the other answer is, “Gesundheit.”

          • Who?

            The thing that just ices the cake for me is that when lemon juice or whatever doesn’t make a bit of difference to outcomes, the reason given by the true believers is that the patient ‘did it wrong’, didn’t believe enough, got their supplies from the wrong place, started too late or whatever other victim blaming nonsense they can come up with.

            So it would have worked if only….

            What utter vicious nonsense.

          • momofone

            Exactly. Clearly if the lemon juice doesn’t work, the problem is that the patient just didn’t have a positive enough attitude.

          • Liz Leyden

            Or smoke some weed! Marijuana is natural, and it cures everything!

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            I hate that list more than most things in the world. If someone posts that damned John Hopkins hoax bullshit on my Facebook page one more time, I don’t care if it is my crunchy cousin, Im beating their ass. Cure that with a no sugar diet.

            Maybe I’m a little sensitive because the last time that thing was posted to my page was when a cousin on the other side of the family passed away after an eight year fight with brain cancer (can’t remember which type, but it was the branching, infiltrating type). They gave him maybe a year, three if he was lucky if I remember right. He squeezed eight years out of it and never cried “Why me?” and volunteered for experimental treatments knowing it probably wouldn’t cure him. But it might cure the person after him.

            He’s a hero. Not many people I know would volunteer for experimental chemo delivery systems or radiation treatments when they could have languished with the time they had left. He wanted to try and if it didn’t work that meant someone else wouldn’t have to go through it. To post that bullshit saying he could have lived if his blood wasn’t so acidic or if he ate enough kale makes me want to puke. His oncologist said he probably had the tumor before he was born but something turned it from slow growing to highly aggressive as a young adult. I want to parade these people though a cancer ward and tell them to tell that to the poor people dying and look them in the eye. Not so easy to be all high and mighty health guru when they’re starting you in the face. Life is a fragile thing and it’s a miracle we’re even able to walk bipedal without killing ourselves somehow.

          • momofone

            I couldn’t agree more, and I am so sorry about your cousin. He was a real warrior.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            He really was. He kept fighting until it infiltrated his spinal cord and progressively started paralyzing large portions of his body. He finally said he’d had enough and he didn’t think his body could take anymore treatment so he wanted the few months he had left with his family. He still wasn’t ready to go when he was dying.

            The night he died every time we thought it was over suddenly he’d be thrashing and yelling to someone in the room we couldn’t see that he wasn’t ready to go yet and to let him stay. He finally had to be alone because he couldn’t go with his wife and parents in the room. As soon as he was alone it was over in minutes. Even in the last moments he was thinking about how hard it was to leave them. He gave everything he had until his body couldn’t take it anymore and then gave the rest to his family.

          • Mishimoo

            What an amazing person! So sorry that he didn’t make it.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            He was such a good during it all too, trying to make everyone feel better. He had to have this metal cage thing put on his head for radiation therapy and it looked all sorts of bizarre so of course he put it on Facebook. After the next treatment he said his oncologist gave him some upgrades and posted a picture of his face photoshopped over Arnie’s on the half exposed Terminator face.

            The worst part was he knew something was wrong long before they found the tumor but he kept getting written off as having depression. Then he had a seizure at work and suddenly everyone took him seriously. But he wasn’t bitter about it. They found the tumor and he called up his dad and said “Dad! I have good news! I don’t have depression, I just have cancer!” In his mind at least cancer has a chance to be curable instead of just manageable. Always looked on the bright side.

          • Roadstergal

            “The worst part was he knew something was wrong long before they found the tumor but he kept getting written off as having depression”

            Yeah, my mom was mis-diagnosed as depression, as well. But it was a really aggressive tumor, so that didn’t last long.
            So sorry for your cousin. It’s just fucked when cancer takes someone who is too young to go.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            When you say it was really aggressive do you mean she didn’t make it? 🙁 If so that really, really sucks. And it really is fucked. Especially when you hear kids or teenagers say they’re ready to go. No parent should ever have to bury their child or hear them say they’re ready to die.

          • Roadstergal

            Yes, she died back in the early ’90s. It was really fast, which was good in some ways and horrible in others. We didn’t have to make any horrible choices, but, you know, lost mom. 🙁 She wanted grand-kids more than anything in the world, and missed seeing them born and grow up. It definitely influenced my career choice.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Man she couldn’t have been very old then. Glad you got the time with her that you did and it didn’t take her sooner. And it’s always hard to know in the fast situations. Would they want to have stayed even if they were lingering in pain and losing themselves or to go that quickly where there’s still pain but not that slow crawl to death?

            I mean, at least I know what my parents want if they end up in a brain dead state because of their advanced directives but that doesn’t make it any easier to think about.

          • Roadstergal

            She was a little over 50; I was 13 (youngest of four). It certainly made my dad think about getting his living will in order…

          • demodocus

            that must have sucked beyond words. When my Mom died of pancreatic at 55, the twins were 12 but they were given up for adoption at birth so they may still not know. The next youngest was 22, and it was traumatic enough for him. Mom did get to meet one of her grandsons, though

          • Roadstergal

            It definitely affected me (got counseling for PTSD, it was all so fast), but I feel so bad for my poor dad. I don’t think he ever got fully over it. (Yes, got counseling, takes joy in life, but still – never the same.)

          • demodocus

            I don’t doubt. My dad was unexpectedly upset about Mom’s death, and they split up 24 years earlier.

          • Tell me about it. One of my favorite authors, Spider Robinson, lost his beloved wife to cancer. She was ordained as a Zen Buddhist monk posthumously. Just when he was starting to feel again, his only child tells him she has aggressive stage 4 breast cancer. (And a relatively new marriage and a 2 year old daughter.) Family & friends, including Spider, took turns taking care of her daughter so she could rest whilst coping with treatments and test and such, We thought she beat it.

            She died 5 Dec 2014. Two days after my birthday. Spider didn’t need this.

          • “Man, I’m tired of the losses we all keep sustaining due to cancer. It’s time we ended that disease. It behaves exactly like the worst human beings: egotistical to the point that it becomes both homicidal and suicidal. People keep saying so-and-so “lost her battle with cancer,” but of course nobody ever does. At worst, we fight to a draw. The cancer never survives its victim. I just wish there were some way to contact a cancer and tell it it’s being suicidally stupid.”

            -Spider Robinson

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            Your cousin sounds like a real hero; thank you for sharing his story.
            It reminds me somewhat of a story about Lou Gehrig that I read. It was written by a sportswriter friend of his, and talked about how he handled his disease, and all the good he did not only on the field, but once he stopped playing: helping kids in juvenile detention/on parole, encouraging other people with the same disease, and yes, volunteering for various experimental treatments. At one point, he called the writer up, excited as could be. “That new serum they’re testing on ten of us? It’s amazing! Nine of us have seen significant improvement–how wonderful is that?”
            “What about you, Lou?”
            “Oh, well, it didn’t work for me, but isn’t it great how well they’re doing?”
            *sniff*
            I read that story when I was about 8, and it cemented Gehrig’s place as a personal hero of mine, to the point that I always insisted on wearing #4 when I played softball.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            I didn’t know that story about Lou Gehrig. People like him, I don’t know how they do it and how they don’t get bitter when they’re the one it doesn’t work on. They’re really something else. I don’t think I’m a strong enough person for that.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            True heroes, that’s what they are.

          • Bombshellrisa

            Is that the baking soda thing? I had someone post that along with Nature’s Flu Shot

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            It was this thing. I’m linking the Snopes page because I don’t want the actual page to get hits.

            http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cancerupdate.aspasp

            It hurts my brain.

          • Angharad

            I couldn’t even finish it. Who comes up with this incredibly obviously false and harmful crap?
            Also I feel like if people truly believe they can change the body’s pH without doing serious harm, or that distilled water is acidic, it says terribly sad things about the state of science education in this country. Those are basic facts that I remember learning in elementary school, then again in high school, and yet again in college.

          • demodocus

            As a sub, I’ve tried to teach them! Lead a horse to water. 🙁

          • demodocus

            My sister volunteered for trials a couple years ago for the same reason. (Ovarian) She’s still in the fight.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Good luck to her! I know ovarian is one of the lower cure rates so every day is a win! Hopefully she gets to kick its butt and show it can be done.

          • demodocus

            Thanks. Fortunately, the trials seem to be helping her, It’s her second bout with it, after being in remission for 4 or 5 years

          • I remember a Law & Order episode. Det. Lennie Briscoe gets another great line: “Pediatric oncology. Two words that should never go together.”

          • Mishimoo

            Ugh, heard that one before! Along with: “Don’t eat sugar when you’re sick, it makes the germ stronger” and my favourite “Eating sugar will make the virus turn bacterial.

            (I took unholy glee in sharing the fact that my doctor strongly suggested hot sweet fluids when I had the flu, being as I could not swallow anything else and “calories are important regardless of where they come from”.)

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            Wait, it’ll turn the virus into bacteria? Where’s a bag of sugar, antibiotics are so much cheaper than anti-virals! Pour some sugar on me if that illogical leap of biology is true!

          • Amy M

            Oh I definitely spent too much time on the couch. At the behest of my OB. She was trying to sabotage me.

          • Who?

            Well exactly. Why else would she have spent years studying and training, if not to be able to sabotage pregnant women and trap them into the ebil world of big medicine?

            You poor thing it must have been both tedious and stressful.

          • Bombshellrisa

            Of course she did! How else would she get her shill money from big pharma, big insurance and the formula companies? Don’t you know she makes money when she uses interventions?

          • Roadstergal

            She’s in the pocket of Big Sofa.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            I would think if there were a Big Sofa and it had a pocket, I’d be the first to know.

          • demodocus

            you’re just an extra secret shill. 😉

        • Young CC Prof

          You thought about twins at some point while trying to get pregnant or during the first few weeks, and just MADE that embryo split. If you didn’t let the idea cross your mind at all, totally wouldn’t have happened.

        • Medwife

          Oh see, you should have eaten AND fully digested a bag of Cheetos like I did in my first trimester. I had a singleton at 39 weeks with nary a labor pain until actual labor. I’m sure you did the best you could with what you knew at the time, though, so don’t feel bad, mama.

      • Liz Leyden

        I chose not only twins, but HLHS x1, fetal malpresentation, and PPROM, with a bonus of post-partum pre-eclampsia. I’m either a total warrior mama or a total masochist.

      • MaineJen

        Don’t you love being a totally boring patient at MFM? I hung around for a bit after my level II scan, in case they wanted to discuss anything with me, and was happy to hear there was nothing to discuss and they didn’t have to see me again. Kthanksbye. (BTW my diet was not the best during pregnancy…that was the one where I was craving spicy mexican food the whole time.)

        • Bombshellrisa

          It was wonderful! We saw the MFM for five minutes after the scan, and she was so kind. She congratulated us on our baby boy and advised us to have a Harmoni blood test.
          I craved spicy during that pregnancy too. Nothing was spicy enough. Guess it shouldn’t surprise me that my son likes savory foods.

    • Young CC Prof

      See, I totally decided my son would have IUGR, because… Actually, I got nothing. That’s a completely horrible thing to say.

      Beyond avoiding alcohol and tobacco and eating a generally good (not necessarily perfect) diet, there’s not a whole lot most of us can do to change the outcome.

    • LovleAnjel

      I totally chose to be crippled with nausea and vomit up any vaguely delicious food for the first few months. I also chose to turn into one giant walking hive for the last few weeks. And I totally chose for my baby’s hearttones to get fucked up if I did anything but lay on my right side during labor. Yup. Totally chose.

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Yup! Just like my mom totally wanted her gallbladder to backup into her liver and kill a portion of it in her third trimester for no discernable reason! Because… Because… Uh… Shit I don’t know.

      • Allie

        Well of course severe morning sickness, etc., is caused by you subconsciously rejecting the pregnancy, so you did choose it, at some level ; ) [sarcasm]

      • Azuran

        Yea, I bet that cat with a uterine rupture I operated last year just didn’t feel ready to have kittens. It’s negativity must have caused that to happen.

    • Julia

      Exactly. Pregnancy basically just does its number on us.
      Ironically, it’s quite easy to make things worse (drinking, smoking, ionizing radiation, thalidomide…), but very little to make things better.

      • Young CC Prof

        That’s actually a really good way to explain it. We know how to cause adverse outcomes, and you can reduce your risks by avoiding those things, but it’s really hard to reduce your risk below baseline.

      • Julia

        Oh no, sorry for the mangled English in that sentence… I should proofread stuff before posting

    • Who?

      Let’s face it, this young woman had no idea what could have happened. Most of us don’t know, mercifully, until it happens. If someone decides to be cared for by a doctor, tested as appropriate, and be advised, they can happily go a whole pregnancy or two and not have any idea really what they are doing, or what could be going wrong.

      If you go to a midwife or doula, exactly the same pregnancy will happen, but the opportunity to see trouble coming and mitigate or divert it is lost. So when something does go other than optimally, the first you know is when that brown stuff hits the fan. Which as we all know is a messy and confusing time, the fallout from which is difficult to resolve.

    • mythsayer

      She wasn’t just healthy. She was EXTRA healthy. All the rest of us are losers who hate our babies because all we did was give up raw sushi and wine. She probably went to a bunch of bs classes and ate things we don’t consider food. So obviously she is better than we are.

  • Mel

    My definition of heroism requires that the hero EITHER did not cause the danger of the situation OR recognizes the stupidity of their choice that caused the danger and names it as such.

    Soldiers work diligently to prevent being attacked and to prevent being captured when attacked – a statement that should be obvious even to Donald Trump.

    Home-birthing “warrior” mamas, on the other hand, throw themselves into a freaking dangerous situation – while expecting someone to swoop in and rescue them if something goes wrong – and declare their own heroism retroactively for being damn lucky.

    • I’m sure Daddy will agree with that. He’s a Green Beret.

      Probably saved my life, definitely saved my sanity. He can use his DI parade field bark (rarely heard it), but I hear the calm voice of command much more often. (And the warm fuzzy voice of the Daddy Who Will Take Apart Anyone Who Hurts His Kids and Must Now Soothe His Kids.) I think his voice on the phone is more healing than any woo.

      • Did I mention he has nine kids? They call him Major Dad on base for two reasons. That’s one. His rank on retirement is the other. (Three wives were needed for nine kids. He didn’t torment/destroy one woman’s reproductive system. I was a big baby…)

  • yentavegan

    My daughter served in the US Navy overseas. She faced hostile military in foreign countries. Her dog tags could not identify her religion for fear that our allies would take offense. She is now attending college on the governments dime. She is my hero. And she was born by a planned c/section.

    • Rita Rippetoe

      My daughter was Air Force and had Wicca on her dogtags. She was not overseas though. I curious about this since I obviously favor religious freedom in our services.

      • yentavegan

        My daughter was honorably discharged in 2014. She was deployed 3 times to the Middle East.

    • Allie

      Aw, just imagine how much more awesome she’d be if she were born “naturally”. Heavy sarcasm coming from me, but someone actually posted that this was said to her in earnest, I think by an LC. Unbelievable.

    • just me

      Your daughter honorably served our country, so thank you to her. But I really don’t see why you had to mention the religion thing. Seems like just a way of alluding to “big bad Muslims! Scary!” Why here in this space? I find this (not your daughter’s religion) offensive.

      • Amy Tuteur, MD

        You think alluding to the anti-Semitism of many of our allies is from is worth condemning, but not the widespread, deadly anti-Semitism?

        • just me

          This is exactly what I meant. You assume “many” are antisemitic, so it’s ok to disparage an entire religion and its followers. I see so much of this, eg “commentary” in my local paper in liberal California. Islamophobic stuff is acceptable. Writers wouldn’t dare write such things about Judaism or other religions but Islam, that’s ok. 9-11, chattanooga they’re all to blame. Sad. Espec sad that people are blind to their own acceptance of the status quo.

          I like this: http://www.thenorthwestern.com/story/opinion/columnists/2015/07/20/muslim-marines-testimony-fallen-chattanooga-brothers/30438131/
          I still remember why I enlisted in the Marine Corps. I wanted to be part of a brotherhood of men dedicated to the service of our country. I was 19 and in college. I was a good student — but I knew this wasn’t going to cut it.

          At the time, many told me it was a foolish decision, but in January 1997 I enlisted anyhow. My father, who is a Muslim missionary and theologian, fully supported and approved of my decision. As an Islamic scholar, he well knew prophet Mohammed’s commandment to all Muslims, “Loyalty to your country of residence is part of your faith.”
          Thus, in enlisting in the Marines, I was fulfilling my obligations as a U.S. citizen, and as a Muslim. I felt empowered knowing that no contradiction existed between the two.
          Today, I am an honorably discharged Marine who proudly served five years active duty in the Marine Corps. Serving my country remains among the highest honors I’ve been blessed with. Thus, I was that much more horrified, angered and saddened at the loss of life of four Marines and a Navy sailor in Chattanooga, Tenn.
          This senseless loss of life became even more incomprehensible when I learned that the alleged shooter appears to have been a Muslim. But I see nothing Islamic in this act of terrorism. I see only the actions of a sick and twisted individual. No difference exists between the Chattanooga terrorist; Dylann Roof, who allegedly killed nine innocent black Americans at a church in Charleston, S.C.; or James Holmes, the terrorist convicted of murdering 12 people in a Colorado movie theater several years ago.
          And as I reflect on the Chattanooga attack, I can only wonder how anyone who is Muslim, especially one living in the United States, can even think about such despicable acts? Islam leaves no room for terrorism and only permits fighting in self-defense to protect freedom of religion for all people. What this terrorist committed represents his own personal barbarity — nothing else.
          In fact, individuals like this shooter have no religion. Islam holds human life sacred at the highest level. The Holy Quran has likened the killing of an innocent life to the killing of all mankind. Rather than holding loyalty to country as part of his faith, this terrorist engaged in violence against the very people sworn to protect him from harm. He attacked my fellow human beings, my fellow Americans, my fellow Marine and Navy brothers.
          While this terrorist might have been inspired by the so-called Islamic State, I follow the true Khalifa of Islam, His Holiness Mirza Masroor Ahmad, who loudly declares, “From cover to cover, the Holy Quran teaches love, affection, peace, reconciliation and the spirit of sacrifice. Hence, if anybody portrays Islam as an extreme and violent religion filled with teachings of bloodshed, then such a portrayal has no link with the real Islam.”
          My message today is not to non-Muslims living in America. They know where I stand, and I still have my Marine Corps dress blues to prove it. My message is to my fellow American Muslims. I say to you that we know better than anyone that the Chattanooga terrorist does not represent any of us. We know the frustration we feel when people label us for his act of terrorism. I say to you to keep your head up and walk proud. Continue to follow prophet Mohammed’s example of compassion, service to humanity and love for all, hatred for none.
          And I have one final message. That is, my thoughts and prayers go out to the Marine and Navy brothers’ family members and friends. This indeed is a sad day for our country. While I mourn, I am also proud and honored to be associated with the same brotherhood as those brave souls who departed from us today. And I’m reminded once more why I joined the Marines.
          Semper Fi.
          Sergeant Tayyib M. Rashid served in the United States Marine Corps from 1997 to 2002, when he was honorably discharged. Follow him on Twitter @MuslimMarine.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Every Arab country and most Islamic countries ban Jews. They forced out all the Jews who lived there. It’s not an assumption that they are anti-Semitic; they are proud and vocal about their anti-Semitism. If you believe otherwise, please provide evidence that Jews are allowed to live freely in Muslim countries.

            I was not condemning Islam; I was stating a fact, a fact that you ought to know.

          • attitude devant

            ahem. Dr. Amy, with all respect, and I do respect you greatly, it was not always thus. The great caliphate of the Umayyads, whose capital was Cordoba, created a WONDERFUL home for Jews for centuries. Jews in this land were free to practice their religion without fear of censure. Much great Jewish thought and philosophy stems from this time. Many Jews refer to this land, Sepharad, as the first ‘promised land.’ When the Jews were forced out, it was not the Muslims who did it. It was the Christians.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Sure it wasn’t always this way, but it is very much this way now. Jews simply are not allowed in any Arab countries and most Muslim countries.

          • attitude devant

            But we should remember that this is not the nature of Islam. From its beginning and for several hundred years, Islam was remarkably tolerant of the other People of the Book, that is, Jews and Christians. We should remember it because many states in the Middle East uses religion as an excuse for intolerance. But the excuse is historically new.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            It’s not the nature of Islam, but it’s the contemporary reality of Islam.

          • just me

            I suspect it has more to do with Israel’s aggression and policies vs a true hate like the nazis had. And it’s sad that one cannot criticize Israel without being labeled antisemitic which I am sure you will now label me as. And my fathers country was one of the few in Europe to shelter Jews during the holocaust and his family actually hid some.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            So now you’re justifying anti-Semitism?

          • just me

            I give up. Since i criticized Israel you’re painting me as anti-s.

          • Who?

            My husband worked in the Gulf states in the 80s, his employer required that he produce to them, and subsequently carry with him at all times while he was there, his baptism certificate, to prove he wasn’t jewish. His employer was an American company, and he worked in many places all over the world with them, and that was the only time this was required.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            You follow your religion as it was originally taught and written and for that I applaud you. More people of any religion should aspire to that. However unfortunate as it is, there are a lot of people who claim to follow Islam in the Middle Eastern states who do not follow your Prophet’s words at all and twist it to fit their needs. And unfortunately they’re just the latest in a long line of people in power who corrupt a religion’s teachings and texts to better suit their needs. Just like the Pharisees in the Bible, those that started the Inquisition in Catholicism and so forth. Religion is just a convenient excuse for people who want power. For another person their tool could be fear of the “other” like Donald Trump and his demonizing of Mexicans.

            Anyone who’s actually studied what Muslims stand for knows that there’s a lot of solidarity with other religions and the non-religiious. More emphasis should especially be placed on the Middle East and Islam’s influence on astronomy and mathematics in history classes. It’s just sad that so many American haven’t and can’t see the true message of what you live and only see screaming terrorist. Which is like judging all Christians by the abortion clinic bombers who are indeed terrorists, no reason to mince words. But your average Muslim or Christian just wants to live their life in service to their God and the community.

            The area yentavegan’s daughter was deployed was an area that had hijacked the name of your religion to further their needs. For a woman of Jewish descent and religion, it had to be at the forefront of her mind of what would happen to her if she was captured and explicitly labeled as such. They don’t represent you if they are crying for the blood of people simply for existing. But you know that and are working towards changing that perception. And damn if it isn’t a hard road to help people understand what they thought about your religion is just flat out untrue. Still walking that one day in and day out myself.

            You’re a good example and representative of what you want to see from your own religion. Hopefully small ripples will make large waves that will change what’s happening across the ocean.

          • just me

            Actually, I’m offended as an earthling. I’m agnostic/almost atheist, not that it matters. I’m not a young black male but I’m appalled at Michael brown Eric garner and all the other sensless deaths for walking/existing while black. And my late father was Moslem. So yeah, I get very irritated on his behalf.

          • DelphiniumFalcon

            I apologize for my assumption on your religious preferences. Ideally we should get to the point where any kind of pointless death shoukd be looked on as a tragedy as you mention. Not make excuses by pointing fingers at their religion or go looking for a mental illness to explain it. Just see them as a human being that made a choice and that choice robbed another of their life literally or metaphorically through disability.

            Just trying to do what I can in the position I’m in. I’m learning but I’m not always the fastest at it.

          • Are we not both people of the Book? A Sufi friend of mine said she is considered one of the “Hippie heretics of Islam”. I can’t speak to that, but Sufis are fine neighbors.

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Because unfortunately some of our more tenuous allies in the Middle Easr would not treat a Jewish person or a woman well to begin with. Make them a Jewish American woman and her risk to herself while helping these people intensifies by a few magnitudes. I think it says a lot about her daughter that she continued in that area despite the risk to herself.

        The dog tag and religion issue also have been a point of contention more than a few times in its history. Back when my grandfather was in the Korean War he and the rest of his friends that were drafted had to choose “Other” because Latter Day Saint/Mormon wasn’t an option back then. Up until the Vietnam War the options were Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Other, and None. It kind of left them a little miffed to have to choose Other.

  • Somewhereinthemiddle

    Blech. He is such a buffoon and an embarassment. I have no idea who Stacy Keibler is. Guessing some marginally talented generic actress whose popularity and relevance will wane in about 15 minutes?

    • OttawaAlison

      She started her career in wrestling (WWE). I think she dated George Clooney for a while…

      • Daleth

        Did anybody NOT date George Clooney for a while?

        • Roadstergal

          Me. When will this be rectified?

          • demodocus

            Me either.

        • Liz Leyden

          Me. And now he’s taken. 🙁

        • Me. Handsome enough, but I prefer actors like Sam Waterston, Vincent D’Onofrio…

          • Roadstergal

            I loved Vincent D’Onofrio in L&O:CI! (And in Strange Days – a very underrated movie, IMO. Angela Basset was wonderful as the Single Mom Turned Badass.)

          • Yes. He played a flawed, multifaceted hero very well. He is also great at playing scary psychotic villains. I hear he’s a very nice man.

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    And now, Trump questions rationale behind Lincoln Memorial. “I prefer to remember the Presidents who didn’t get shot.”

    (credit: saw it on Twitter)

    • Megan

      Trump says so many dumb things I sometimes wonder if he’s secretly a democrat out to make the republicans look bad. But then sometimes I think he just says outrageous things because he likes the attention.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        Actually, he has to divert attention away from his hair.

        • Megan

          So true!!

      • SporkParade

        His job is failing to run for president.

    • Liz Leyden

      Donald Trump is to the presidential race what The Onion is to journalism.

      • fiftyfifty1

        I wish.

  • DelphiniumFalcon

    I find William T. Sherman’s thoughts on war relevant to this discussion if they want to play war heroes.

    “… it is only those who have never heard a shot, never heard the shriek and groans of the wounded and lacerated … that cry aloud for more blood, more vengeance, more desolation.”

    Only those women of priveledge who have never had to wonder if they should make our their will when they become pregnant because they may die, don’t have child after child and only expect a few to survive adulthood, or have never had a fear of dying if they even make it through childbirth because of postpartum infection would say what these NCB worshippers do.

    They can echew modern treatment because even when they screw up and things go wrong, as they do, modern medicine can at least make a salvage operation out of what was previously a death sentence. These “warrior women” have never seen war.

    They’d benefit from another of Sherman’s quotes to those who want to glorify war:

    “I’ve been where you are now and I know just how you feel. It’s entirely natural that there should beat in the breast of every one of you a hope and desire that some day you can use the skill you have acquired here.
    Suppress it! You don’t know the horrible aspects of war. I’ve been through two wars and I know. I’ve seen cities and homes in ashes. I’ve seen thousands of men lying on the ground, their dead faces looking up at the skies. I tell you, war is Hell!”

  • Amy M

    OT but I keep mixing up Stacy Keibler and Kimmy Gibbler. (Yes, I know the 2nd one is fictional.) Who is Stacy Keibler? An actress?

    • Mattie

      according to wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) she’s an actress, model and retired professional wrestler, and she came third on a series of Dancing With the Stars.

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Ah, clearly her credentials check out. When can I get an appointment?

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        When did she retire from professional wrestling?

        (Actually, don’t even bother, it’s too stupid to even answer)

    • Roadstergal

      I read it as Stacy Keach. Which is entertaining.

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    I don’t understand. Is birth something that women have been doing successfully for thousands of years? Or is it a monumental achievement worthy of heroism?

    Because NCBers claim both.

    • Amy M

      They do that sort of thing a lot, don’t they? Formula feeders are lazy moms who didn’t try hard enough to breastfeed, yet the lactivists don’t want to wash bottles because THEY are lazy. The NCB women cosleep because they are lazy and don’t want to get up out of bed to attend the baby, but women who sleep train are lazy and they are only sleep training so they don’t have to get out of bed to attend the baby.

      • Mattie

        I think when they refer to themselves as ‘lazy’ it’s in that Stepford Wives-esque ‘look how lazy I am, I only made 200 cupcakes and cleaned my whole house and knitted a quilt and did the laundry and then I actually sat down and watched tv instead of hand-making a new dinner set and sewing new clothes for my entire family’ in the hope that people will praise them and tell them how awesome they are.

      • Roadstergal

        Is it a push-pull between the desire to pull more women into the cult vs the desire to appear to be Awesome Heroic Moms? Add to the list – vaginal births are easier and safer for mom and baby to recover from, and C-section moms are taking the easy way out.

        • Amy M

          I think its both, but more the first, kind of sour-grapey. Like, “I put my self through hell to breastfeed and now all the other women have to do that too, so my effort is validated.”

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Like, “I put my self through hell to breastfeed and now all the other women have to do that too, so my effort is validated.”

            And the approach of “Heads I win, tails you lose.”

  • Rita Rippetoe

    In many warrior cultures the risks a woman took in childbirth were seen as morally equivalent to the dangers that the tribe’s warriors endured. Both made the survival of their societies possible. But, as Dr. Amy has repeatedly reminded her readers, this was because childbirth without the knowledge and techniques available in modern industrialized societies was a major cause of death for women. It would seem to me that for these modern warrior mamas to claim heroism undermines their claim that childbirth is inherently safe. But I suppose they might reply that “a petty consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.”

  • demodocus

    You can give birth while in a coma? Vaginally? Fascinating, ‘though I don’t want to try it. How often does that happen?

    • Amy Tuteur, MD

      Fortunately, there are not many pregnant women who become comatose, but it does happen. I have delivered a baby of a woman who was in a coma.

      • fiftyfifty1

        Yep. The uterus can do it all by itself without the help of any of the muscles under voluntary control. Where I trained the oldest OB attending was old enough to have practiced before the polio vaccine and had delivered a number of babies of women paralyzed in iron lungs.

        • SporkParade

          Okay, morbid curiosity has won out. Did the women get paralytic polio after they got pregnant, or is it possible to have sex in an iron lung?

          • attitude devant

            my understanding is that some were able to be out of the iron lungs for hours at a time.

          • LovleAnjel

            People would only continuously use an iron lung for 1-2 weeks at the worst of the illness. After that, they would spend as much time outside as they could (as you might imagine), going back in for “breaks” that would rest their taxed muscles.

          • Young CC Prof

            There are still a few people around who are part-time iron lung users.

      • Allie

        Really? I thought being able to push “the right way” was essential for giving birth? Isn`t that the whole reason why midwives are against epidurals/

      • demodocus

        oh my. Thanks for explaining.

    • Liz Leyden

      When I was in school, I had a peds patient who was born while her mother was in a coma. She’d also been conceived while Mom was in the same coma. Mom died soon afterward.

      • Who?

        Horrific.

      • demodocus

        Jesus. That smells of a lawsuit somewhere

        • Liz Leyden

          At the time, a lawsuit was winding its way through the courts.