Balance your evil humors the Food Babe Way!

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For hundreds of years medical practitioners were obsessed with “evil humors.”

What are evil humors?

Humoral theory, also known as humorism or the theory of the four humours, was a model for the workings of the human body. It was systemised in Ancient Greece, although its origins may go back further still. The theory was central to the teachings of Hippocrates and Galen and it became the dominant theory in Europe for many centuries. It remained a major influence on medical practice and teaching until well into the 1800s.

Detoxing is the new bloodletting.

Evil humors were believed to be invisible. They constantly threatened people, and those people had no way of fending off the threat. Indeed, they were often completely unaware of the threat that was actively harming them. Practioners hypothesized that illness was the physical manifestation of evil humors that were out of balance.

Therefore:

The treatments for disease within humoral theory were concerned with restoring balance. These could be relatively benign and focused on changes in dietary habits, exercise and herbal medicines. But other treatments could involve more aggressive attempts to re-establish balance. As well as having the body purged with laxatives and emetics, or the skin blistered with hot iron, individuals already weakened by disease might be subjected to bloodletting because practitioners mistakenly believed that their bodies contained an excess of blood.

The theory of evil humors was thoroughly discredited centuries ago, but health quacks like Vani Hari, The Food Babe, continued to use them as the basis of their health advice. Vani doesn’t call them “evil humors” thought she calls them “toxins,” but the resemblance is unmistakable. They are invisible, constantly threatening people and supposedly, most people are unaware of the threat.

Since toxins are evil humors, Vani offers the modern day equivalent of treatments designed to restore balance. Chief among them are “de-toxifying” foods, drinks, enemas and cleanses.

Apparently someone pointed out to Vani that the body has two organ systems designed specifically to handle toxins, the liver and the kidneys. There is no need to anyone to use de-toxifying treatments because blood flowing through the liver and kidneys ARE de-toxifying treatments.

When the evil humors theory of disease was discredited, it’s purveyors were recognized as laughingstocks and were forced out of business. If the toxins theory of disease is discredited, Vani will be recognized as the laughingstock that she is and forced out of business.

She’s not taking it lying down.

Hence Vani’s latest post Does Your Body Cleanse Itself? Is Detoxing Really A Myth?

The scientific answers are yes and yes. Your body cleanses itself and detoxing is a myth.

But not according to Vani:

But what if I didn’t do anything to change my diet? What if I just believed the “experts” who said your body “detoxes naturally” – and there’s nothing you can do to make it detox any faster or better. What if I just listened to their advice and trusted that my body was going to be able to continue to detox itself just fine from all the soda, fast food and candy I was eating filled with a slew of controversial synthetic additives, pesticides and plasticizer chemicals from the packaging material – not to mention the daily exposure of suspect chemicals in water, air and the environment I was being exposed to … ?

Toxins are invisible … just like evil humors!

One thing is clear, we might not be able to see toxins, but they are there!

They’re everywhere … just like evil humors!

Many of them come from pesticide-sprayed food, farmed fish, and food packaging materials. Besides the food we eat, everyday items like shampoo, household cleaners, plastic bottles, clothing, furniture, water, and even the air we breathe are all possible sources of toxin exposure. It has been estimated that the average person could be harboring about 500 synthetic chemicals in their bodies, and one study found that unborn babies had over 200 toxins in their umbilical cord blood – this amount of toxins is no joke!

Your body can’t handle them … just like evil humors!

The problem is that your body can’t easily eliminate many of these toxins or break them down. They get stored in places like fat tissue and eventually make their way through your bloodstream and invade your brain, lungs, heart, eyes, stomach, liver, and sexual organs.

But don’t worry. You can treat them with special foods, laxatives and cleanses … just like evil humors!

For people who didn’t understand physiology, biochemistry and pathology, evil humors as a cause of illness made a lot of sense. They thought that people got sick because they couldn’t properly handle their humors. For people like Vani who don’t understand physiology, biochemistry and pathology, toxins as a cause of illness makes a lot of sense. She thinks people get sick because they can’t handle toxins.

Medical practitioners who worked prior to the advent of modern medicine were ignorant, but they were doing the best they could with the information they had available. Vani Hari is ignorant, but she has no excuse. The truth about human physiology is available to anyone who chooses to learn it.

Detoxing is the new bloodletting. Only a fool would think it prevents or treats illness.

 

  • Wren

    So here we have diet and lifestyle as the sole contributor (though she did walk that one back a bit) to disease then we have anti-vaxers who claim autism is definitely due to some kind of environmental trigger, most likely vaccines. I thought the influence of genes was better understood by the general public.

  • LM

    Do I agree with detoxing diets? No. But anyone who doesn’t recognize diet and lifestyle as the sole source of chronic disease prevention needs to do some research. I think the Skeptical OB needs to go back and look at the literature instead of relying on her 1984 medical degree as a pass to remain skeptical of anything not rooted in a less than 200 year old science. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Even the National Cancer Institute issued a Presidential report in 2008 outlining how underreported environment is in cancer incidence. When thousands of chemicals go unregulated in a reactionary society, consumers are left to prove harm. So one can be naive and not believe that what you eat has the potential to “detox” or help your body naturally detox, or I could listen to more holistic providers who see the big picture. Don’t use your credentials to justify outdated dogma.

    • Nick Sanders

      But anyone who doesn’t recognize diet and lifestyle as the sole source of chronic disease prevention needs to do some research.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZl-kQ3JFNI

      • LM

        Assuming that was a sarcastic laugh, you realize this isn’t an opinion? Behavior and diet are the sole contributor to chronic disease…look it up yourself on PubMed. You’re talking to someone with a PhD in health education with LOTS of information on disease prevention so bring it…id love to hear you argue against lifestyle and chronic disease. I’m a professor of public health and teach Bachelors and Masters classes on this stuff. And genetics? That will get me going even more.

        • Azuran

          Look, diet and exercise are important, no one is saying they don’t play an important role.
          But they are not the SOLE contributor. Genetics also play a huge part. Or are you saying that familial Type 1 diabetes and that breast cancer gene are hoax?
          Viruses and bacteria also play a role. Which is why vaccines are now widely used. A healthy lifestyle is not going to give you immunity against all of those. Sure, being healthy might reduce your risk of severe complication a little. But even then, that’s far from a 100% reduction. Very healthy, breastfed babies and kids have died of those diseases even in recent years.
          And then you also have stupid dumb luck. Sometime bad things happen to good people. I know it probably makes you feel better to find a scapegoat and tell yourself they probably did something to deserve it. But it’s often not the case. Bad things just happened.

          People would actually be a lot more receptive to your message if you kept a realistic nuanced message instead of claiming to have the answer to everything. You don’t.

          • PhDGirl

            Genetics plays a MINOR role. Lets use some facts, shall we? Genetics and environment interact using epigenetics to create increased or decreased risk for disease. There hasn’t been an explosion of BRCA genes, but there has been a stark increase in breast cancer incidence rates. And Type 1 diabetes are also increasing at alarming rates. This isn’t about genetics not playing a role. This is about how environment, diet, lifestyle interact with genes. I suggest you watch Unnatural Causes, a PBS documentary I show in class. It highlights these issues. Much of what is considered genetics is lifestyle linked, such as obesity. There is such thing as an obesogenic environment (I suggest you google it).

            You’re arguing for a realistic nuanced message on the Skeptical OB? You’re kidding me, right?

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Please supply some scientific evidence (not wishful thinking) that genetics plays only a minor role.

            A PBS documentary is not scientific evidence.

          • PhDGirl

            Well thank you for expecting higher standards for your readers than you do of yourself (I see no scientific reference in your blog post). And also thank you for enlightening me on the fact that a PBS documentary is not scientific evidence (you know, bc I wasn’t aware of this as a trained researcher).

            Are you denying the interplay between genetics, epigenetics, and environment? Are you arguing that most cancer/heart disease/chronic disease boils down to fate? Have you spent any time looking at the data on plant substances and their ability to protect cellular structure and DNA damage?

            The Presidential Report on Environment and Cancer risk can also be found here: http://deainfo.nci.nih.gov/advisory/pcp/annualReports/pcp08-09rpt/PCP_Report_08-09_508.pdf

            A recent Nature study showed that most causes of cancer are extrinsic. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v529/n7584/abs/nature16166.html

            Spending time looking at the CDC’s Social Determinants of Health website or the Healthy People 2020 website might also provide some insight. Even the CDC’s Genomics website provides useful information about how familial lifestyle factors masquerade as genetics.

            I think you are the one who needs to take a humble assessment of your opinions and realize that “science” changes, theories are only modern-day assumptions, and there is a whole world outside of modern US medicine with respectable people using evidence to guide their practice.

          • Nick Sanders

            Please supply some scientific evidence (not wishful thinking) that genetics plays only a minor role.

            Are you denying the interplay between genetics, epigenetics, and environment?

            She is not. I, on the other hand, and about ready to deny your reading comprehension.

          • PhDGirl

            You spend too much time on this blog. This is exhausting.

          • Nick Sanders

            I’ve spent less than half an hour of my life on you. I mean, yeah, it is more than you deserve, but it’s hardly “exhausting”.

          • PhDGirl

            Well that was CLEARLY a half an hour too much.

          • Charybdis

            Then what is your excuse then?

          • Nick Sanders

            Because what you said was bullshit, or because you don’t like getting called on your bullshit?

          • Ron Roy

            Don’t let these people ( and I use the term loosely ) get you down they’re paid to do this. I’m waiting for one or all of them to deny this……………

          • Gene

            Yeah, Dr Amy! Where’s my paycheque! It’s been something like 6-7 years and I’ve gotten squat! What a total rip off!

            I’m going to start my own blog! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the blog!

          • Dr Kitty

            Met my accountant today.
            Those sweet, sweet Dr Amy Krugerands are making their way to my Swiss bank account as we speak!*

            *Not really, I’m here for the lolz.

          • Charybdis

            Deny what, exactly? That we’re people or that we’re paid to do this? Because if we’re getting paid, then my check has been misplaced in the post. And I’m real…

          • Heidi

            Has Ron Roy met a conspiracy he doesn’t like?

          • Azuran

            Really? I’m not being paid.
            You are the one who parachuted in this blog. Why would we get paid to make pro-medical comments on a pro-medical blog?

          • Nick Sanders

            I have to wonder what it’s like to be so paranoid and or narcissistic that the go to explanation for people disagreeing with you is that they are being paid to do so.

          • ” I’m waiting for one or all of them to deny this……………”

            Why? That’s not how burden of proof works. So again, your evidence that anyone *here* is being paid is *what*? I mean, you do actually have *one single shred* of evidence, don’t you? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/03ead76900f1c9d792d52e6321d87a1f3f13bbb5bf3005929d96652787f35f1a.jpg

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Sorry, but that’s not how science is done.

            If YOU make a claim, YOU need to provide appropriate QUOTES from appropriate peer review scientific references, explain how they comport with the preponderance of the scientific evidence and justify replacing the scientific consensus with your view.

          • PhDGirl

            If YOU make the claim that the foods can’t help promote detox pathways than YOU need to provide the quotes from evidence related to the INABILITY of food to foster improved detoxed pathways from the liver/skin/lungs, etc.?

            You don’t get to expect higher standards from your blog readers than you expect from yourself. Is this what you do to people who disagree with you? You ask for a dissertation-level referenced post to deny an OPINION-based blog article??

            You write a blog…a blog. Are you even a licensed physician anymore or just using the credentials to slander people?

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Are you sure you have a PhD?

            Logic 101: No one has to prove a negative.

          • PhDGirl

            Oh my. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. So if your Logic 101 was correct, no one would need to disprove smoking caused cancer, or asbestos caused mesothelioma because they were all assumed at one point in time to be benign and have no negative health effects. You do have to prove a negative, Amy. You’re running a blog based on negating others opinions. You need to provide evidence as to why the other side is wrong and you’re “science-based.”

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Are you serious?

            You are employing what is known aptly known as the “argument from ignorance.”

            “The argument from ignorance (or argumentum ad ignorantiam and negative proof) is a logical fallacy that claims the truth of a premise is based on the fact that it has not been proven false, or that a premise is false because it has not been proven true. This is often phrased as “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”.

            If the only evidence for something’s existence is a lack of evidence for it not existing, then the default position is one of mild skepticism and not credulity. This type of negative proof is common in proofs of God’s existence or in pseudosciences where it is used as an attempt to shift the burden of proof onto the skeptic rather than the proponent of the idea. The burden of proof is on the individual proposing existence, not the one questioning existence.”

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

            Thanks for demonstrating this logical fallacy.

          • PhDGirl

            Is Nick a paid staff member? He clearly loves your blog. And pseudoscience, eh? Evidence of absence doesn’t PROVE anything…it raises doubt. It means that the current way of thinking will dominate until disproven. I’m sure you have that quote earmarked anytime someone disagrees with you.

            You know what gives me peace to end of all of this? That I get to walk into a classroom tomorrow filled with young health professionals to-be and educate them on prevention science and public health instead of writing a blog where ignorant people respond. At least I get to have intelligent conversations most days of my life…

          • PHDgirl,y our claim, your burden of proof.

          • momofone

            Sorry to repeat myself, but just in case you haven’t seen it, I’d like to know how diet and exercise (or lack thereof) contribute to the genetic expression of muscular dystrophy. Other people have mentioned several other diseases in comments I notice you haven’t responded to, and I’m sure you’re eager for opportunities to enlighten us. 🙂

          • PhDGirl

            Chronic PREVENTABLE diseases (heart disease/cancer/Type II diabetes/Alzheimers, etc.). When you talk about chronic preventable disease, there is an underlying contributor of inflammation, of which diet can help mitigate. There are foods (turmeric and ginger) to name two that decrease systemic inflammation and can help prevent inflammation and stop angiogenesis. There are clearly other genetic-linked diseases that are hereditary as well as being spontaneous such as DMD and sick-cell. Do you really think I would argue against genetic inherited diseases?

          • momofone

            Why yes, I do. In fact, I think you did.

            “This isn’t about genetics not playing a role. This is about how environment, diet, lifestyle interact with genes.”

            “Genetics plays a MINOR role.”

            You didn’t specify otherwise until people challenged you on it.

          • Nick Sanders

            Please, show us some cases of “spontaneous” Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy and Sickle-cell disease.

          • Gene

            “But anyone who doesn’t recognize diet and lifestyle as the sole source of chronic disease prevention needs to do some research.”
            “Behavior and diet are the sole contributor to chronic disease…look it up yourself on PubMed.”

            Moving the goalposts, are we? Or did you just realize your previous statements were complete bullshit?

          • PhDGirl

            Yep its bullshit. I am complete bullshit. And Amy is the godsend to health. Take back my credentials.

          • Gene

            Well, honey, they are bullshit. And you got called out on them.

            As to your credentials, all PhDs are not alike. I’d never think to argue physics with someone holding a PhD in that subject. But I can hold my own with most hardcore biochem and genetics as well as medicine. Your PhD is in health education? So a teaching PhD, not in a basic science research?

          • yugaya

            I don’t have a PhD, I mostly teach teenagers stuff, and some of that stuff is basic argumentation. Like, teaching them to recognize that someone resorting to ad hominems and accusing people of being paid to comment on blogs is a logical fallacy.

          • momofone

            But she has a PH D!

          • Amazed

            And in a health related field, no less!

            So do I. What a surprise! Wait, you mean you don’t believe me because I haven’t been making it a secret what I work and I have been consistent about it all the years I’ve been posting here? Doesn’t matter! I want to have a PhD in a health related field, so I do. It’s INTERNETZ!

          • Roadstergal

            Whenever someone waves their PhD around on the Internet like a magical truth talisman, I end up pronouncing it in my brain like Victor Borge did in his act – “Phdddd.”

          • Gene

            BS: bull shit
            MS: more shit
            PhD: piled higher and deeper

            Or PhDuh!

            That’s what we always joked in grad school.

          • PhDGirl

            Oh Gene. One, don’t call me honey or you’ll be labeled misogenstistic. I can tell you work in biochem. And two, yes your PhD is superior in the hard sciences and all. A real expert in health behavior and disease prevention. You may want to do some research on what health education does…

          • yugaya

            We are not allowed to call you names, but you are allowed to mock Nick and accuse him of being a paid shill?

            Let’s hope you don’t teach anyone any ethics.

          • Nick Sanders

            I take solace in the fact that I’m running rings around her.

          • Roadstergal

            …misogenstistic?

          • PhDGirl

            Yes, Roadstergal. If all you have is a mistyped word as I’m replying on MY PHONE then I’m sorry you felt the need to comment.

          • Roadstergal

            I had a hard time typing that word, because my phone tried to autocorrect it to ‘misogyny.’ Which would have gotten you much closer.

            The word does have a common root with ‘gynecology’ that I’d have thought your health education would have come across.

          • Gene

            Sweetie, it’s called a southern insult.
            1. I don’t work in biochem currently. But I do have a PhD in it.
            2. My PhD is not superior to yours (assuming you have one). But having a PhD doesn’t make me an expert in particle physics. Or you an expert in health or basic science.
            3. Actually, I am an expert in many aspects of both behaviour and disease prevention. That is my current field.
            4. According to you, health education means teaching people completely unsupported bullshit.

          • Mike Stevens

            You keep falling back onto the cushion of your “credentials”, which you like to promote at every turn (as well as having them in your nym), rather than arguing with facts.
            Do you suffer from lack of self confidence, or maybe some Napoleon complex?

          • yugaya

            “But anyone who doesn’t recognize diet and lifestyle as the sole source of chronic disease prevention needs to do some research.”

            The SOLE source of disease prevention??? What’s your PhD in – being science stupid?

          • guest

            How can anything be a “sole contributor”? If it’s the sole cause, it isn’t just contributing a part, but the definition of “contributor” always refers to helping out, or submitting a part of a whole. Unless this has some special medical definition that I wouldn’t know, it doesn’t even make sense. Either something contributes to the expression of chronic disease (along with other things, OR something is the sole cause of chronic disease (meaning no other things contribute to the cause).

          • PhDGirl

            Don’t discredit me based on an editorial mistake, Guest. Primary contributor, most significant contributor, most preventable contributor, etc. .

          • yugaya

            You came in here bragging about your PhD. Such a huge mistake in the argumentative claim you are making is …whatevz? O_o.

          • PhDGirl

            I have an excellent idea! How about you do your own secondary data search on diet and disease prevention instead of looking to someone else, Amy’s blog included, to vomit the research to you.

          • yugaya

            The only individual in this conversation who is vomiting nonsense all over the place – is you. That would be the same person who is also incapable of making a decent claim to begin with.

          • Nick Sanders

            I have trouble believing you got all the way through a PhD and no one taught you about the Burden of Proof.

          • demodocus

            well, i’m pretty sure no one ever taught my Dem as he worked for a PhD in philosophy. Proof is more or less imaginary in that field 😉

          • Nick Sanders

            That’s not an editorial mistake, each of those has radically different meaning.

          • AnnaPDE

            Do you seriously not see the difference between “primary contributor”, “sole contributor” and “most preventable contributor”? Please hand back your PhD right now. The differences are huge and very important in terms of practical measures.

          • guest

            Where’s your evidence?

          • Wren

            I do remember you telling me that diet will control my son’s asthma. Given his love for curry and ginger nuts, it seems that those magic foods just are not doing their job. I think I’ll stick with the inhalers that do control it instead.

          • Monkey Professor for a Head

            My husband is Indian and his family eat turmeric and ginger daily. Didn’t stop his mother dying of breast cancer in her fifties. Didn’t stop his younger sister having a stroke due to anti phospholipid syndrome. Didn’t stop his father developing type 2 diabetes and didn’t stop his uncles having heart attacks.

            I’d like to see some actual evidence of those foods actually preventing disease in vivo.

          • PhDGirl

            There are plenty of in vivo studies on PubMed. Here is one systematic review that uses both in vitro and in vivo: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27482284/?i=5&from=turmeric%20and%20cancer%20in%20vivo

            No one is saying that if you eat turmeric and ginger you won’t get cancer or heart disease. It helps mitigate inflammation which lead to chronic disease. If there is evidence diet can help prevent chronic inflammation, why wouldn’t you want to incorporate protective foods? Diet is one piece, obviously, of a healthy lifestyle. And these are only two examples of anti-inflammatory foods.

          • Monkey Professor for a Head

            I had a look at that link. That study looked at 5 in vivo studies. I can’t access one of them, but I took a quick look at the other 4. One involved introperitoneal implantion of curcumin and two involved injections of curcumin. One did involve dietary supplementation – an average of 2mg/day for a mouse. If those mice weighed 35g then roughly speaking (it’s of course more complicated in practice) the equivalent dose for a 70kg man would be 4g of curcumin – equivalent to approx 117g of turmeric per day – a pretty unpalatable prospect. So whilst curcumin may show promise as an anti cancer agent, it’s hardly as simple as just eating turmeric.

          • PhDGirl

            Clinical trials also exist with much lower dosages: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3535097/

          • Nick Sanders

            Oh dear, not the old “inflammation is the root of all evil” spiel…

          • Roadstergal

            I’d ask her to define ‘inflammation’ in her own words, but I already have a head-shaped dent in my desk.

          • MaineJen

            “No one is saying that if you eat turmeric and ginger you won’t get cancer or heart disease.”

            “Behavior and diet are the sole contributor to chronic disease…look it up yourself on PubMed. You’re talking to someone with a PhD in health education with LOTS of information on disease prevention so bring it…”

          • Heidi

            Where does it say the amount that would be reasonable to eat that it would really offer some huge protection? Why wouldn’t some people want to incorporate ginger and turmeric in their diet? Maybe they hate the taste of them. I eat ginger and turmeric pretty frequently but sticking a chunk of turmeric or ginger in a smoothie is disgusting, and still where’s the evidence eating this much everyday does anything? Sure, they go well in curries, but we’re talking a tablespoon of fresh ginger in a dish that serves four or more, or a teaspoon of dried turmeric to make a dish yellow. One day we might find curcumin does super amazing things, and we can offer people it as a drug in reliable, regulated doses. It’s not a food then, though. It’s medicine.

          • Dr Kitty

            The study you linked to says nothing about diet, BTW.

            “Further experiments are warranted to elucidate the use of a bioavailable form of curcumin in clinical trials.”

            Which rather suggests that diet is unlikely to offer therapeutic doses of curcumin in a bioavailable form.

            “Why wouldn’t you want to incorporate protective foods?”

            When you have no evidence that incorporating these foods into a normal diet in palatable and financially workable amounts is actually protective.

            By all means eat tomatoes and turmeric and coconut oil and avocados and chocolate and ginger and goji berries or whatever the current superfood is if you like it, but maybe don’t expect it to actually do anything other than provide you with calories and a nice tasting meal.

          • Roadstergal

            You’re not aware that the guy who published the curcumin data had all 7 papers retracted and was dismissed from MD Anderson, for faking data?

          • Azuran

            Well, you said earlier ‘Behavior and diet are the sole contributor to chronic disease’
            Sooooo……I see you are backtracking.

          • Amazed

            Honestly? Yes. Behavior and diet are what we have to thank for chronic diseases, remember? Or are you too busy to keep backpedalling like crazy?

          • Nick Sanders

            You know what? I would absolutely love to see your CV.

            Also, @AmyTuteur:disqus my check is late. I’m filing for 2 years back pay.

          • PhDGirl

            You should be asking for Amy’s CV. She’s the un-licensed OB doling out nutrition advice.

          • Nick Sanders

            She gave no nutrition advice that I’ve seen.

          • PhDGirl

            Wow…then you might want to read her posts on the Paleo diet.

          • Nick Sanders

            Oh, you mean the completely separate posts from the one you commented on. The ones calling out something widely agreed to be woo as woo.

            Sorry, but it takes zero qualifications to support the scientific consensus. It’s only when you think you know better than everyone with qualifications that your own come into question.

          • PhDGirl

            Yeah that one. The one written by the same woman claiming her scientific knowledge while making comments that diet has no relevance to health other than obesity.

          • Nick Sanders

            Never saw such a claim.

          • PhDGirl

            Then reread the post.

          • Nick Sanders

            Better idea: quote her where she says so.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Have you shared with your university that you are teaching nonsense and have trouble with basic logic?

          • PhDGirl

            Yeah, the nonsense of CDC-sponsored health behavior change programs, PubMed studies, NIH-funded research trials, and the like. I am real disgrace to the university and science.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            And yet you can’t seem to present it in a logical, coherent way so that we could assess it.

          • PhDGirl

            For what purpose? To get slandered and torn apart by not only you but your readers? I think you should attend an APHA meeting. You need an intervention.

          • Nick Sanders

            Who has slandered you?

          • momofone

            So questioning you and expecting you to back up your claims is being “slandered and torn apart”?

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            You’re getting torn apart precisely BECAUSE you don’t seem to be able to present your claims is a logical, coherent way. It’s amazing to me that someone could get a PhD in health education without understanding either science or logic. Academic standards have slipped terribly.

          • Sonja Henie

            Well, I looked into getting a master’s in health ed back in the 70s, and decided not to because it seemed like a lot of fluff.

          • PhDGirl

            Well then you should also take back my Exercise Science degree and Masters in Nursing along with my RN licensure.

          • corblimeybot

            Everyone has met RNs who somehow got their nursing license, even though they believe in unscientific bullshit.

            Examples: Lactation consultants who have RN licensure. The nurse that told me that bats fly through people’s houses spitting on people. The nurse that told me that depression wasn’t real, just an excuse to be lazy.

          • PhDGirl

            Just like there are MDs who claim diet has no role in disease prevention other than its link to obesity? And I’m the unscientific one? Mind you there is no standardized nutrition education in medical school, if any.

            http://www.skepticalob.com/2016/08/sorry-food-fascists-nutrition-is-not-the-key-to-health.html

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            You didn’t learn much, did you?

          • PhDGirl

            Youre a social media personality who drives up hysteria to increase traffic to your blog! You are just as bad as Mercola. You make people like me, who try to weed through the BS of “nutrition science” for real answers about chronic disease, spend time justifying their self-worth to people who cite Wikipedia. You really should be ashamed at the empire you’ve built. You’ve polarized science so that its us against them instead of acknowledging gray and working towards the common good of healthier populations. How can you be so dogmatic about medicine???

          • Wren

            How can you be so dismissive of deaths?
            Lack of vaccines, birth woo, CAM in place of actual medicine: these things lead to deaths, and often of innocent children who had no say in their lack of health care.

          • PhDGirl

            Wow it’s like arguing in circles. Yes I want everyone to die. Where did I say I want CAM in place of medicine? Have you done any research on the number of deaths caused by medical care? Or how the IOM estimates medical errors as the 3rd leading cause of death?

          • Wren

            Deaths caused by medical care? Do you mean deaths caused by actual errors? Or deaths that are not prevented by medical care? Or deaths from known complications where no error is found? Yes I am aware of the estimates of US deaths, and I am also aware that the definition of “error” is an interesting one I would be unlikely to use in any other situation.

          • Nick Sanders

            Where did I say I want CAM in place of medicine?

            http://www.skepticalob.com/2016/08/balance-your-evil-humors-the-food-babe-way.html#comment-2876087740

            or I could listen to more holistic providers who see the big picture

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Why are you still here? You’ve made a fool of yourself and whining about me doesn’t change that.

          • PhDGirl

            You’re a bully. A social media bully. I see you’ve made no comments regarding anything of substance. Just “whiny” claims regarding my lack of scientific knowledge. You’re a joke, Amy. You give MDs a bad name.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Do you feel better now?

          • momofone

            Ironically, I was thinking the same about you and PhDs.

          • Roadstergal

            I’m actually not shocked you’re an RN. While there are lovely science-based RNs out there, there are far too many woo-types. One even tried to warn me about my birth control – “Shouldn’t mess with mama nature.” I cringed later when I realized another girl might take her seriously and have it removed, instead of laughing in her face.

            The signal:noise in exercise science is miniscule.

          • PhDGirl

            I’m sorry..who are you? And what the eff is up with people using the word Woo on here?

          • Wren

            Are you unfamiliar with the term?

          • Roadstergal

            I’m Roadstergal. I thought that much was obvious.

          • Tobias B. Santa

            Oh good god, so true. I am also a RN and I just want to scream when another nurse tries to peddle woo to me. Like the Thrive patches. *sigh*

          • Sonja Henie

            Your license probably should be revoked if you’re this dumb!

          • PhDGirl

            Is this what do in retirement, Sonja? Call people names, chastise, and patronize to make yourself feel better? Clearly a case of low self-esteem.

          • momofone

            Wow! You’re an expert in psychology too?

          • Box of Salt

            “Clearly a case of low self-esteem.”
            Now I feel the need to play some Offspring. But I’ll probably wait until the baseball game is over.

          • Sonja Henie

            You are a case of low-wattage.

          • PhDGirl

            You write mostly opinion blog posts, such as above, and then when someone questions you, you want heavily-referenced responses. You’ve created the perfect scenario for yourself in that you can get away with saying anything and then discredit someone when they don’t feel like writing a research paper response. And yeah academic standards must have really slipped since 1984. This blog is like a black hole….never again.

          • momofone

            And best I can tell, you’re pissed because no one here was willing to accept your PhD in lieu of actual sources for your sweeping claims.

          • PhDGirl

            I provided sources. Just not quotations that Amy liked.

          • Nick Sanders

            And does any of that support Paleo? Didn’t think so.

          • MaineJen

            PHD girl: you can recommend all the diet and exercise you want to your students. No one here is arguing that good diet and more exercise are a bad thing. They do bring about positive health changes. *But they do not prevent ALL chronic disease.* Surely you realize this.

          • Daleth

            She’s retired. That is different from being “unlicensed” (never got a license or had your license taken away). If you want people here to respect your newly minted PhD, try respecting other people’s MDs.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            And if they know any science, they’ll laugh at you!

          • Gene

            And I’ll spend my teaching time attempting to undo your pseudo science BS. I do it all day long.

          • PhDGirl

            Well good. We will keep each other in business.

          • Mike Stevens

            “a blog where ignorant people respond.”
            …and here you are, responding…

          • Nick Sanders
          • Mike Stevens

            You can seriously write what you just did, and think you are thinking scientifically?

          • guest

            I have a PhD and work with lots of other PhDs. Sadly, I can report that there are a lot of really dumb people out there who, yes, have a Ph.D.

          • PhDGirl

            Just like there are unlicensed MDs who haven’t practice medicine in 30 years writing opinion posts masquerading as science?

          • guest

            There are indeed MDs who are idiots and espouse bullshit woo nonsense. Dr. Sears comes to mind.

          • Nick Sanders

            “detox pathways”

            I think I might just start laughing again.

          • Laura J

            Foods do heal in so many ways. We have an organic garden and push the lettuces, spinach, and kales in the winter. Arugula is said to clean out the liver. Also Aloe Vera juice, but it tastes like a shag carpet.

          • Gene

            Aloe is great for treating sunburn. But not as effective at preventing either sunburn or cancer as sunblock.

          • Laura J

            Love aloe, wonderful plant. You can break off the leaf and put the gel straight on it.

          • Gene

            I’m a huge fan. I always have one. And I’m always hugely disappointed that it tastes disgusting.

          • Laura J

            LOL. Not sure if it would be a good tonic after drinking… yeah it’s a shag carpet taste.

          • Nick Sanders

            Stolen.

          • Stolen in the first place so….

          • Roadstergal

            That’s fantastic.

          • Feel free to yoink it.

          • momofone

            “And also thank you for enlightening me on the fact that a PBS documentary is not scientific evidence (you know, bc I wasn’t aware of this as a trained researcher).”

            Yet you threw it out there.

            I’m still waiting to hear how Duchenne MD is the result of poor diet and lifestyle. Generations of my family would love to have known how to save their sons and prevent their daughters from being carriers.

          • MaeveClifford

            When I hear the word “epigenetics,” it causes the same reaction as hearing “gut microbiome.” Even though they’re real phenomena which merit scientific investigation, they’re also phrases that have been co-opted by woo-meisters, and when I hear them, I brace myself for the avalanche of bullshit sure to follow.

            Why should I listen to someone who knows little about microbiology or gastroenterology tell me about something as specialized as the microbiome? Why should I listen to someone who knows little about genetics tell me about epigenetics?

            The interplay of environment and genome, and the role of histone modification and methylation patterns (and whether these are heritable, and under what circumstances) is a discussion that is worth having. It’s just not a discussion worth having with someone like you. You made an outrageous claim, which is that genetics has NO contribution to chronic disease. People have already mentioned several monogenic diseases that disprove your statement. The existence of Li Fraumeni, and FOP and FH and the entire Pima Indian/Akimel O’odham people are more points, but we’ve already established genetic effects are >0, so really, what’s the point of going on?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            It’s like Deepak Chopra talking about Quantum Mechanics.

            It’s all blithering nonsense.

          • Roadstergal

            “When I hear the word “epigenetics,” it causes the same reaction as hearing “gut microbiome.” Even though they’re real phenomena which merit scientific investigation, they’re also phrases that have been co-opted by woo-meisters, and when I hear them, I brace myself for the avalanche of bullshit sure to follow.”

            I wish I could upvote this more than once.

          • Roadstergal

            Hey, I’m back at work and can read that Nature paper…

            So, you can look at Figure 3 and Extended Data Table 2 and come out with your message of “what you eat has the potential to “detox” or help your body naturally detox”?

            To me, it says “Wear sunscreen, don’t smoke, get the HepB and HPV vaccines*, and sometimes bad luck is just a bitch.”

            (The listed cancers with ‘extrinsic risk’ of 90% or more have causal association with sun/UV exposure, infectious disease, or smoking. Detox diets do fuck-all to prevent those. I mean, detox diets do fuck-all in general, but particularly for those.)

          • Nick Sanders

            And Type 1 diabetes are also increasing at alarming rates.

            Is actual occurrence increasing or are people with it just not dying like they used to? It’s only within living memory that it stopped being a guaranteed death by age 20, and treatments are still improving.

          • Sonja Henie

            You’re full of it, PhDGirl! Type I diabetes in kids did increase during the latter half of the 20th century, but not “alarmingly” so, and no one seems to be able to figure out why. But you know!
            https://www.verywell.com/measles-deaths-2633851

          • Roadstergal

            Hey, PhD girl. Present your proof that we all have identically functioning PCSK9. Given that we have well-characterized null hets and homozygotes, I’m very interested to hear it.

            BTW, do you know what used to happen to kids with T1D? They’d die young and be removed from the gene pool. Sorry to hear you think that was a good thing.

          • PhDGirl

            So you’re saying we’ve had a consistent increase in chronic disease bc everyone has a genetic mutation that is suddenly coming to light?? And where in gods name did I say I want kids with Type 1 diabetes to die? I mean really. Environmental factors increase risk for disease and gene expression. I have referenced numerous articles already discussing this.

          • Wren

            Well, if less people die of VPDs, simple infections we now treat with real medicine, injuries, etc. then there is more time and people to develop chronic disease. Funny that, huh?

          • Roadstergal

            No, that’s not what I’m saying. You came in saying that genetics has no contribution to ‘chronic disease prevention,’ so I gave one obvious counterexample.

            It’s a simple fact that we are living longer and not dying of acute causes that took us in the prime of life, so chronic diseases have longer lifetimes to strike during, and people live longer even with them (which has a selective influence). It’s a less simple fact that poor people in the US have multiple intersecting health challenges, and all of the affluent women doing Food Babe detoxes won’t change that.

            It’s also the case that genetic influences are myriad and complex, but undeniable. I took PCSK9 as one obvious and well-characterized example that underscores the absurdity of the hypothesis you came marching in with.

          • demodocus

            Type 1’s increasing because people with type 1 are actually living long enough to have kids

          • Box of Salt

            Even as little as 30 years ago, the fact that Julia Robert’s T1D character had a baby against medical recommendations was part of the plot of Steel Magnolias. I don’t know why I remember this, as it’s not the kind of movie I usually enjoy watching.

          • corblimeybot

            The playwright of the original play wrote that character based on his sister.

          • MaineJen

            Yeah that was a real thing, actually. My great aunt was never able to have children because of T1D.

          • corblimeybot

            I have a friend right now who is only 34, and can never have children because of her Type 1. I don’t know the details; I just know that her health is pretty bad, and she’s been told it would be too dangerous. Her family didn’t treat her diabetes very well when she was little because they were a bit into (sigh) faith healing at the time, so maybe there’s some fallout there.

          • Michael McCarthy

            Despite the grim premise and Sally Field’s over-the-top meltdown, not a bad movie. Who doesn’t love Olympia Dukakis? I mean, c’mon. Even Shirley Maclaine’s curmudgeon was lovable.

          • Box of Salt

            PhDGirl “There hasn’t been an explosion of BRCA genes, but there has been a stark increase in breast cancer incidence rates.”

            Increase of breast cancer genes at what ages?

            If we’re going to toss out recommendations, I suggest you read Siddhartha’s Mukherjee’s Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer. (I won’t be watching the documentary: I prefer to read for information.)

          • Roadstergal

            The book was way better than the documentary. Ken Burns is fine, but you just can’t tell the nuanced, information-rich story he did in any medium other than a book.

          • Box of Salt

            Wait, her documentary is the one based on the book? That’s kind of funny. Well, between myself and PhDGirl, who’s closer to the primary sources?

            As for video format: I’ve learned a lot of interesting things from putting Discovery/Science/History Channel on in the background while doing other things during the day, but I still prefer learning via the written word. Hitting replay/rewind isn’t as effective as stopping, thinking, and re-reading at your own pace. At least for me.

          • Roadstergal

            Oh, my bad – I thought you meant that you wouldn’t be watching the Emperor of All Maladies documentary, not the one PhDGirl posted. I still say the book was leaps and bounds more informative. 😀

          • Box of Salt

            I had read the book before they made the documentary. I ddn’t watch it as I’d already read the book, and I also didn’t remember the title.

            PhDGirl has already told us she’s not about nuance.

          • MaineJen

            I’m reading his new book “The Gene” at the moment. Interesting stuff. 🙂

          • Azuran

            Genetic can play a huge roles. There are 4 MAJOR genetic disease that is common amongst the people of my county. Any kid affected by them is unlikely to make it to adulthood. And the prevalence is high enough that any couple wanting to have children is offered free genetic testing. And there is no amount of exercice or food that is going to prevent those genes from being given to the next generation or preventing those disease from killing those children.

          • Roadstergal

            Do you know what DCIS is, and what has contributed to increasing rates of its diagnosis?

          • swbarnes2

            What does gene duplication have to do with anything? How can you have a “explosion” of genes?

          • Daleth

            Genetics plays a MINOR role.

            Genetics play a decisive and indeed singular role in some diseases. A few examples: Tay Sachs, cystic fibrosis, sickle-cell anemia, hemochromatosis… obviously I could go on. With some diseases, if you have the genes for the disease, you’re getting the disease, no matter what.

            And genetics play a strong role in some other diseases. BRCA and breast cancer, for instance.

            So let’s start this conversation over, this time with a little more honesty and nuance, ok?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Isn’t it the case that, based on gerontology studies, while diet/lifestyle can make a difference in terms of getting old, if you can make it to something like 80, then from there it’s about genetics?

            Of course, there are also genetic diseases that affect younger people, but we are doing a good job addressing them. And now that our life expectancy is going up and up, we are far more at the whim of genetics than ever before.

          • hemophilia, colour-blindedness….etc

        • Nick Sanders

          Diabetes, Type 1.

          Your move.

          • momofone

            I’ll add Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy.

          • Nick Sanders

            And Sickle-cell disease.

          • Charybdis

            Cystic Fibrosis.

          • Nick Sanders

            Tuberous Sclerosis.

          • Tay-Sachs.

          • Nick Sanders

            On a less depressing note, color-blindness.

          • While we’re doing X-linked:

            -Hemophilia – A and B

          • An Actual Attorney

            Caused by lack of pork in the diet.

          • Wren

            No, that’s due to poor schools.

          • Wren

            Or is it eating junk food?

          • momofone

            Vaccines!

          • Wren

            Obviously!
            The vaccines cause the kids to attend poor schools where they are fed junk food and dirty water, thus causing sickle cell disease.

          • Charybdis

            Eating junk food in poor schools.

          • Cystic Fibrosis….

        • Gene

          This should be fun!

          My PhD dissertation focused on a transcription factor involved in Wilm’s tumor. So let’s chat genetics.

          Or RB1 and its association with retinoblastoma.

          And neuroblastoma, the most common cancer of infancy. Because all those babies surely are 2ppd smokers and chewing down on Big Macs, right? The toddler I diagnosed last week sure wasn’t.

          • corblimeybot

            I have a personal interest in hearing her “lifestyle” explanation behind a particular one of these diseases.

        • corblimeybot

          Alport syndrome

        • Really?

          Then please explain, with cites, the correct diet and nutrition to prevent all of these:

          -Colour Blindness
          -Tay Sachs
          -Hemophilia A
          -Hemophilia B
          -Cystic Fibrosis
          -T1 diabetes
          -Sickle-cell disease.
          -Tuberous Sclerosis
          -Alport Syndrome

          Good luck!

          • Daleth

            Let me add, please explain the correct exercise and nutrition regimen to prevent multiple sclerosis, syringomyelia, and hemochromatosis. Again… good luck, Supposed PhDGirl–you’ll need it!

          • Sure!

        • shay simmons

          I’m a professor of public health and teach Bachelors and Masters classes on this stuff. And genetics?

          Your students should ask for their money back.

          • Sonja Henie

            You got that right!

        • MaineJen

          The SOLE contributor? Really? You can’t possibly believe that. I mean, it’s patently untrue.

        • Damo

          What school did you go to get your PhD? I want to go there to further my education. Apparently they have no standards, and I want in on this bullshit peddling scam you got going.

      • Wren

        Since I cannot comment on the other post any more, yes, I need a better living room. Mine only had a blue fluffy unicorn dancing on a rainbow. Plus a child singing about pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows.

        • Mishimoo

          My kitchen had a child telling me that she wants to invent a rainbow dog that poops rainbows; does that count?

          • Wren

            Hmm…no fluffy unicorns?

          • Mishimoo

            Sadly, I think either Deadpool or Captain Boomerang stole them.

      • guest

        So much this. Can’t stop laughing.

        Diet and lifestyle changes don’t prevent all asthma attacks. Medication does. Now, for asthma, certain lifestyle changes my reduce the number of attacks (such as not owning a cat if a cat allergy triggers an attack), but it is impossible for most people to completely control their asthma this way, so you’re still going to need those meds, or else accept that you’re putting your life at risk.

        • guest

          That should say that medication prevents more attacks than lifestyle changes – for some people, the meds still can’t prevent all. But they do a damned sight better than all the bullshit diet changes, and yoga and acupuncture don’t do diddly for it.

        • demodocus

          *shock* you mean that it wasn’t my couch potato ways that caused me to develop asthma at 3?

          • guest

            Well, there is the theory that if we all were infected with hookworms more often, and lived on farms in Sweden, then there would be fewer people with asthma. I guess those count as lifestyle choices, but not ones that are practical for most people to make. Plus, there’s stuff like the fact that my twins are being raised in an identical environment, but one has asthma and one does not. Oh, but clearly environment is the *sole* factor in asthma – until you call bullshit on it, and then it becomes oh, well, genes have a *small* role to play.

    • Heidi_storage

      You’d make your argument stronger if you’d replace “the sole source of” with “contributing risk factors for.” Genetics do make a difference, and then there’s plenty of plain bad luck, too (like getting a cancer for which you have no known risk factors).

      Another complaint is that “diet and lifestyle” are kind of broad categories, and the evidence for supporting recommendations ranges from quite strong (e.g., association of lung cancer and smoking) to nebulous (e.g., curcumin and treatment of RA).

      Also, haven’t preventative medicines not based on food or exercise proven pretty effective? I’m thinking vaccines, especially.

      Finally, I’m a bit confused by how “detoxing” (and other) diets fit in with environmental carcinogens and “chemicals.” I certainly am not going to disagree with you that, say, water contamination (a la Flint) and air pollution are going to cause more chronic diseases, but I don’t understand how eating a special diet is going to treat the effects of this pollution.

      Dr. Amy can speak for herself, but I doubt she wants everyone to hit the tanning salon, live in polluted areas, never get off their couch, and eat nothing but potato chips and soda. Her skepticism on just how much a particular diet can do for your health, however, seems very reasonable to me.

    • demodocus

      The sole source of chronic disease? So, what was wrong with my best friend’s niece who developed Type 1 diabetes at 7? Kid was *not* the least bit chubby and into all the usual kinds of childish games. Since her parents knew type 1 diabetes ran in the father’s family, they gave her as good a lifestyle as possible.

    • Box of Salt

      PhDGirl
      Weren’t you posting as LM yesterday, this comment and the one of the Paleosucker post where you claim to be a nurse and professor of public health?

      “Don’t use your credentials to justify outdated dog”

      Back at you: don’t use your credentials to justify your misunderstandings of science and medicine.

      • yugaya

        Whoa, we haven’t had someone that disgusting troll the blog in a while.

        • PhDGirl

          Lol disgusting bc I changed my user name? You guys are really searching. And why are you here “trolling”?

          • Wren

            Trolling?
            Yugaya is a regular commenter here.

          • yugaya

            You mean paid contributor. 😛

          • Charybdis

            You actually GOT your check?

            *pouts*

          • Amazed

            WHAT? Why does yugaya get the special treatment? What about the rest of us? What about poor little me?

            Dr Amy, I am sorely disappointed.

          • yugaya

            No, disgusting because of the things you say. Meanwhile, zeroing in on a single topic, taking arguments from one post to another and coming back with a username that is supposed to add credential to your nonsense claims is trolling.

          • PhDGirl

            I’m sorry I don’t usually spend my time replying to blog posts or wasting away my day belittling people who try to question “experts.” This will be the last time I venture down this rabbit hole. I also find it sad you spend so much time here.

            So trolling or not, this woman is full of BS and her blog appts deserve some cross referencing to call her out.

          • yugaya

            ” I also find it sad you spend so much time here.”
            I haven’t posted in a couple of months actually, but thanks anyway for the passive-aggressive dig at how much more precious your girl/PhD time is.

          • Amazed

            But you found quite the time to spare to argue (and lie) here, it seems. In a place you do not even frequent. Different rules for us mere mortals and your (supposed) PhD Goddessness?

          • momofone

            Wouldn’t that be “days”? Since you started at least one day ago, and had enough time to post with a couple of screen names.

          • Nick Sanders

            It’s Labor Day Weekend. We can spend it however we fucking want. If you don’t like it, feel free to complain to the ghost of Grover Cleveland for giving us peasants some time off.

          • Roadstergal

            I spent the morning running on the beach with the dogs, and part of the afternoon lazing on the couch watching the US Open. Mr R noticed that I was typing on my phone –
            MrR: “What are you up to?”
            Me, brightly: “Arguing on the Internet!”
            MrR: “Oh, that always goes well.”

          • Damo

            If my girlfriend knew what I was doing, I am pretty certain she would cease to be my girlfriend.

          • shay simmons

            I noticed that you have singularly failed to provide any cross-referencing here.

          • Box of Salt

            I am just amused that you found it necessary to puff up your own credentials via changing your username. And while complaining that the blog author identifies her own.

            Furthermore, there are some commenters here who do include their professions in their names, but there are also plenty of folks with advanced and/or professional degrees who do not.

          • Wren

            Wait, you aren’t saying that some names are unrelated to jobs, credentials or role in life, are you? Does that mean you are not actually a box of salt? I may cry.

          • Box of Salt

            Wren “I may cry.”
            Part of me will be in your tears.

          • Of course some names are. I doubt one Joseph Smith is a plumber, carpenter, teacher, doctor and so on.

          • Charybdis

            You mean you’re NOT a bird and Box of Salt isn’t made by Morton?

            I am disillusioned and sad now.

          • Monkey Professor for a Head

            I have worried that my username implies that I am a professor, which I am not. But technically I’m really claiming to be a cartoon monkey who happens to have a professor attached to their head. Which is not true either.

          • Nick Sanders

            We all know the monkey is the one typing your posts while the professor is busy scheming.

          • Monkey Professor for a Head

            😉

          • Amazed

            Ah I can see I was right about you, PhDLiar. Don’t think too highly of yourself. The likes of you aren’t very complex. No great efforts needed to see what you do. Sorry to burst your bubble in which you’re sooo clever.

            It’s pathetic how you think that claiming PhD would automatically give your position higher value. You must be really awed by this thing called education. Sadly that it seems to be out of your reach.

        • Nick Sanders

          Oh, you should have seen what Barzini was peddling way down towards the bottom of another page.

      • Box of Salt

        Ooops. The quote was supposed to read “outdated dogma.”

        • yugaya

          Lovely whiff of ageism in there still.

          • Charybdis

            I read that as “Lovely whiff of orgasm in there still.” at first glance.

            Ageism is a TOTALLY different thing….

    • Amazed

      Wow! Am I wrong, or are you trying to claim authority due to having – gasp! – a PhD? And then accusing others of using theirs to gain credence.

      Really, am I supposed to fall at your goddessy PhD feet and worship your wisdom? Because I am not doing it. Nothing in the content-free drivel you splashed here makes me want to.

      • PhDGirl

        Content free? Have you looked at the NCI report?

        • Amazed

          Couldn’t make it this far. I had to force myself to keep reading after your second line. You aren’t the first quack who thinks dit and lifestyle are the sole source of chronic disease prevention but the likes of you somehow always surprise me. Surely you can’t be THIS dumb?

        • Box of Salt

          PhDGirl “Have you looked at the NCI report?”

          I’ll answer for Amazed: No. Did you forget to link to it?

          You do need to make sure we read the right report if you’d like actual discussion.

      • Roadstergal

        She seems to have gotten very pissy that we don’t accept Argument from Authority.

    • shay simmons

      But anyone who doesn’t recognize diet and lifestyle as the sole source of chronic disease prevention needs to do some research. is much better educated than I am, particularly in the fields of medicine and immunology.

      FTFY.

  • Heidi

    OT again, got back from the vet and ended up driving home with baby & dog in tow in a horrible downpour. Got baby in first, of course, then the dog and as soon as we are all in safely, the house rattles from lightning. Glad we didn’t end up having to sit out the storm in the driveway!

    We find out tomorrow what the intestinal parasite larvae are, if she even still has it. She is on Heartgard Plus and has been forever so the vet thinks it may have already done its job, but otherwise, we’ll get her an appropriate dewormer. Then she can detox all her evil humors (out her butt)!

  • demodocus

    Hey! My sense of humor isn’t evil, just odd!

  • Anonymous

    Keep in mind that she has a degree in computer science which is a far cry from anything like biology, medicine, etc. Point this out on FB and she bans you.

    • demodocus

      but, but, but computer SCIENCE!
      /sarcasm

      • AnnaPDE

        Hey, no dissing cs, that’s actually a branch of applied maths. Actual research and proving stuff and the like.
        It’s pretty different from software development and even more different from semi-amateur programming.

    • J.B.

      Most coders will tell you they learn to do it by googling. I guess skilled Google use makes her qualified to interpret scientific literature?

      Not to mention that finding A solution is not the same as finding the most efficient solution that works within your current system.

      • C.

        This actually explains a lot. Someone who is already predisposed to worship at the shrine of Google (and I’m married to a programmer so I know how much they rely on it) may think it has all the answers in other fields as well. Actually it usually does, if you know where to look, but unlike computer problems which have one or two concrete solutions, you can’t rely on information from forum posts for your medical and health concerns. Also unlike with computers, if the solution you get from Google doesn’t work, it’s not necessarily immediately apparent.

  • Heidi

    Kind of on topic, my dog just came back positive for I think roundworms. She goes to the vet tomorrow to get a real treatment. I googled the natural “remedies” for kicks, and supposedly toxins like wormwood, black walnut hulls and garlic will kill the worms (and probably your poor dog)! You can also try diatomaceous clay or cloves or apple cider vinegar! Also, you can put your dog on a fast?! But also probiotics and raw veggies. Thing is, both my dogs gather round when I’m making our salad and love to eat the raw veggie scraps and they always lick our leftover smoothes that are made with homemade kefir. Yet, somehow, she still got the roundworms! However, she got them, of course I’m to blame for not having her on some “holistic” diet and feeding her dangerous supplements, it’s not the fact she rolls around in poop and licks it off her fur occasionally.

    • Irène Delse

      Animals in nature never have parasites. That’s why no parasites ever evolved to take advantage of them. Oh, wait…

      • Heidi

        Yeah, seriously! I really don’t understand this “natural is best” towards animals. Where did people get the idea that wolves live exceedingly healthy lives?! Besides the whole wolves =/= domesticated dogs. Both my dogs are seven years old and are still healthy and active. If they were wolves, they’d probably be dead by now. In the meantime, I’m sure they’d be eaten up with all the intestinal parasites and heartworm.

        • Stephanie Rotherham

          My rabbit just turned three. In the wild she’d be dead by now, but I’m hoping to get another nine years at least with proper care. And if I hadn’t spayed her, she’d get ovarian/uterine cancer by next year. Nature is never nice.

    • Roadstergal

      “Thing is, both my dogs gather round when I’m making our salad and love to eat the raw veggie scraps”

      I love to eat peppers raw. The dogs sit at my feet and eagerly eat the top/center bits – seeds and all – when I’m done. Craziest carnivore behavior I’ve ever seen. :p

      • Heidi

        Mine love bell peppers, especially those mini ones!

        • Roadstergal

          I don’t know if they’d love the whole pepper – I love them too much to give them away! 🙂

          Gratuitous Latte and Mocha from the beach this weekend:

          • Roadstergal

            (BTW, if any vet-types can tell me what kind of mutts they might be… we adopted them as two nearly-identical puppies, supposedly littermates, one black and one white, but Mocha seems to have turned out to be a runt…)

          • Nick Sanders

            They’re adorable, that’s what they are.

          • Roadstergal

            LOL, I think you’re right. Latte is the one who’s like me – a bit anxious and overenthusiastic and feels better after a bit of a run-around. And eats too fast.

          • Ah, the zoomies/Whirling dervishes

          • Roadstergal

            We got her a slow-down food bowl. Now we just need to get me one.

          • Charybdis

            Gotta love the zoomies. I always called them “The Rips”. This is my IG, Lexi.

          • Stephanie Rotherham

            Wow, so beautiful!

          • BeatriceC

            In parrots this manifests as swinging upside down from the top of the cage, a toy or play stand while screaming at the top of their lungs. It’s even funnier when they do it one footed.

          • Stephanie Rotherham

            In bunnies we call it a ‘binky’; running around madly, jumping three feet in the air whilst twisting to face the other way, racing off and then a sudden flop when the exitement ends. The best thing is that they always look rather shocked that they’re doing it.

          • BeatriceC

            Bird do actually do the racing around bit, but for their safety, with the flighted birds, it’s best to put them back into a cage so they won’t fly at full speed into a wall or window and hurt themselves. It’s much safer for them to hang upside down from the top of their cage.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            I was joking with my wife the other night, whenever a mixed breed comes in, she just says, “Pit bull mix.” No, she says, that’s wrong. It’s “lab mix” because you don’t want any record of anything being a pit bull anywhere. Even if it is.

            And then she prescribes either a) benedryl or b) phemotidine

            (because the problem is usually either itching or vomiting/diarrhea)

          • Roadstergal

            Ugh, yes, when we took them in for their boosters, the vet called them both ‘pit bull mix.’ Nooooo!

          • MI Dawn

            Laughing at this because my friend who has a “pit bull mix” aka Am Staff. terr, is dealing with diarrhea in her dog right now…and gives the dog daily benedryl for allergies!!!

          • Charybdis

            It looks like the larger one, Latte, has some AmStaff in her (or is some sort of Pit mix) along with a bit of Husky and Beagle, maybe? Mocha looks like she has some German Shepard and some sort of long dog (Doxie, Corgi, Bassett, etc) in her.

            Just guessing, but I’m not too bad with the guessing dog breeds.

          • Roadstergal

            Latte’s head does make me think that, but she has a _really_ narrow chest and shoulders – very different from the pit bull broad chest and shoulders. She actually reminds me a bit of one of the original Chinese bone-mouth Shar-Peis – before they got all of the wrinkles bred into them. They have narrow chests and shoulders, and she (and Mocha, come to that) have a similar ‘mane’ going down their necks… and a gentle non-slobber overhang of the jowls…

            https://www.pinterest.com/pin/270708627574896806/

            http://www.treasure-of-dali.de/images/pictures/_6779275699.jpg

          • Roadstergal

            Also, Mocha has some herd-dog-type behaviors that Latte doesn’t. She’ll follow you and nip at your heels. :p

          • Yeah…so high herding drive.

            Per wiki and googlefu and hazy memories…. (so big old pile of salt)… you get an unmodified prey drive seen in something like a Jack Russell or any dog breed that has traditionally been used as a ratter and then you get herding drive

            ” Search (orient, eye); Stalk, chase; Bite (grab-bite, kill-bite); dissect, consume” as a prey drive. Dogs with herding drive just have this sequence cut short and then weakened in places

            You see a pronounced “chase” part in something like a greyhound. If you’ve ever seen a dog “worry” their toy (Shake it from side to side, viciously – with their whole upper body) – that’s what a kill-bite in an appropriate form looks like – this is how wolves kill smaller prey like rodents.

            You see a very weakened “grip-bite” in the form of heeling – which you’ve said is what Mocha does. Bit cheeky of her to do to a human though. So, I wonder if you’ve got a “mildly rank-driven dog” there. Would you say that Mocha has a cocky attitude?

          • Roadstergal

            Oh, that kill-bite is what Latte does. She is hell-bent on killing her toys like that, and she has a powerful whip! (She likes to play a little tug-of-war with us while doing that, and can hang onto a toy right to the edge of being bodily lifted from the ground.) And dissect as you mention. Mocha tends to just chew a toy rather that kill-bite, and is much more inclined to play-bite us than Latte is (take our hand/finger/whatever in her jaw, but not bite down). She’ll consume more than dissect.

            They both stalk! Mocha has a thing where she gets low and stalks Latte that other dog-folk at the beach comment on. Again, though, Latte is more of the chase-er, even though Mocha will do it.

          • Yep. Dogs that “worry” their toys will generally LOVE tug-o’-war, yes.

            Yeh…because Latte is actually chasing Mocha whereas Mocha is just incidentally chasing Mocha, even if it’s in play. Think of the difference between kids playing tag and an older child steering a toddler to the park to play.

          • demodocus

            They could well be littermates. Our cat had a litter* and among the grey tabbies was a fluffy white kitten who eventually developed seal points. The vet thought he was pure burmese.

            *She escaped during her first heat while we were saving up for spaying.

          • demodocus

            the same mother cat who had a thing for garlic.

          • Roadstergal

            I can believe that. Hybridization…

            (We have a lady who lives down the street who used to work for the SPCA – she captures, spays/neuters, vaccinates, and releases all the local feral cats. It’s really a wonderful service, to keep population and disease down.)

          • Just telling you this as an interesting thing but did you know that if bitches and dogs aren’t watched…heteropaternal superfecundation is a common thing?

            Stray bitches can have litters in which every puppy has a different sire.

          • Roadstergal

            Thanks for the info, I did wonder about that!

          • Mmm…I suspect there is absolutely no spaniel or setter in there because those breeds tend to be “good” at passing on their plumes – the pretty bits you see on ears.

            I don’t really know though – just going off limited info from grandpop who bred a couple of bitches and I was about 8 or so at the time so this is half-remembered Wittgenstein’s ladder stuff so take this with a big pile of salt.

            Don’t know how accurate they are but did you know you can do mutt DNA tests?

          • Roadstergal

            You can, but my background is molecular bio, and I’m a bit dubious without more data on the tests. 🙂

          • As I said, I have no idea how accurate they are.

            From what I understand…they’re basically just looking for “This allele is common in this breed but rare in others.” – I don’t really know though.

          • Azuran

            They are indeed not very accurate. We looked it up lately because my area of residence is in a witch hunt against pit-bull and people started asking if they could DNA test their dogs. All the labs we work with for DNA testing told us they didn’t even do the test because they were very inaccurate and basically just for fun.

          • Any health problems with Mocha?

          • Roadstergal

            Not really. She’s a bit of a weird dog – one eye is a quarter-blue, and she’s more meh about food than Latte – but the vet said there’s no vision problems, and she’s generally healthy.

          • Hmm…so low food drive food breed in there somewhere, maybe? “Dogs with low food drive can be picky eaters and aren’t willing to perform a task merely to receive a treat. ”

            So…”dog with a low food drive will be picky at meal time, and it may not really seem to enjoy its food much. When you attempt to give the dog a treat, it might not grab the treat immediately. And this type of dog may be unwilling to perform training tasks simply because of the reward of a treat.” …. does that describe Mocha?

            Mocha has “Wall Eye” which is heterochromia – sectoral/partial in this case but still.

            So what we’re looking for is:

            -Long dog.
            -Breeds that have a high frequency of wall-eye.
            -Dog with lower food-drive.

            Wall-eye is usually the “fault” of a few things, given her general history Herding breed ancestry or merle are the two I remember.

            Hang on – someone mentioned Corgis earlier – which are long dogs – googlefu informs me they are indeed, originally herding breeds! I’m seconding the suspicion of some Corgi in there.

          • Roadstergal

            Hmm, interesting. That low food drive does totally describe Mocha – she’s meh about treats and hard to condition with them, and she’s meh about her regular feedings while Latte scarfs them down.

            We do have a Corgi club that sometimes goes to the same beach as us, though, and Mocha’s legs and musculature don’t seem the same at all to me?

            (I do wonder if she’s a bit dumb, or just has no fucks to give. Latte is your typical attentive dog – she follows whoever is walking around the house, if you get up from the couch she watches where you went and waits for you to return, she’s there to greet you when you get home, and she’ll lick your ear to death if she gets a chance. She learns tricks quickly and easily. Mocha is more difficult to train, and would rather hang out and nap in the back yard than be around us. Except for the times when she’s decided to be affectionate, and she’ll lie down pressed up against you, or push whatever is in your lap off of it to get on your lap herself…)

          • Hmm….fair point re: the legs and musculature. I don’t really know….it’s of course possible that the long dog and herding dog are separate contributions But yeah, that spilt eye is a thing that is likely from a herding dog breed.

            Latte sounds like she might have some lab or other retriever in there…maybe? Labs are known for high food drive and being absolutely useless as guard dogs. At best, they’ll bark …but they’re really more likely to lick the burglar to death.

            Is Mocha inventive into getting into trouble or not? If you think of a doxie for example…they’re very very very smart creatures – they’re just not all that biddable.

            Have you tried using other drives to train Mocha?

            What do the dogs think of toys, for example?

          • Roadstergal

            Latte is very wary of strangers – she’s a bit scardy, and tends to react to new people and new dogs with her hair up and her teeth bared. Unless they’re women – she’s much more chill with women, and flat-out loved some of our female friends their first time over. She doesn’t like kids. She’s okay with most strangers and strange dogs when she’s running around at the beach, but even there, doesn’t like kids. :p

            They’re both diggers and chew-ers, although again Latte more than Mocha. They’re both very good about not chewing on things they’re not supposed to, though – only toys and bones (Latte is incredible about finding and digging out the squeaker – she’s got a real drive there). Mocha does not get into any sort of trouble – she’d rather chill out. The most trouble they get into is sitting on Mr R’s spot on the couch (they both learned pretty quickly not to sit on mine).

            We got a collar set that buzzes – not a shock collar, I tested it on myself :p – and that works pretty well as a training tool for Mocha. If she’s running off or barking at someone, that snaps her out of it, and we condition with a noise along with it. But it just takes more iterations than it did with Latte, who needed nothing but our voice to either stop what she’s doing or come over after only a few outings…

          • Heidi

            Not a vet type but one looks corgi-ish to me. And the other looks kind of boxerish to me. I have no idea what my brown dog is. He was described as German Shepherd+terrier mix, but I don’t know how accurate that is. Plus terrier is a whole lot of dogs. The black one is Basset Hound + Rottweiler from her mom’s side. Her mom had her in the pound so that’s known. But her dad is unknown.

          • Roadstergal

            Totally – terrier, the catch-all. :p

            We live in an area with a lot of Shiba Inus, and his coloring and pointed ears and gay tail remind me a little of those…

          • Charybdis

            I agree. The tan one looks like it has some Shiba Inu in it. The black one looks as if the mystery dad was a Lab or mostly Lab…

          • Heidi

            There’s mine. I baked Conrad a cake for his first birthday. I wasn’t as ambitious when Nixie turned one a couple of months later. They probably shouldn’t have cake often anyway. Nixie is the black one who has some sort of baby worms currently.

          • Roadstergal

            So pretty! They need all the snuggles! 😀

          • Stephanie Rotherham

            Cuties!

          • Heidi

            Thanks! I agree.

          • Stephanie Rotherham

            Lovely doggies!

      • demodocus

        i had a cat who’d steal an eat my roasted garlic

        • Sean Jungian

          I had a cat that would steal broccoli from the steamer on the stove!

          Our dog loves the mini-carrots, she’ll use those as a treat during training. Weirdo animals!

          • My grandpop’s spaniel LOVED cheese and gobbled all cheese down. So she was easy to medicate – grandpop just shoved the pill in a bit of cheese.

          • Erin

            Our spaniel was the same. He’d do anything for cheese. He also liked a cup of tea in the morning…

        • indigo_sky

          Speaking of toxins…. Unlike Food Babe’s fantasy toxins, onions and garlic really are toxic to cats and dogs. They have a chemical that destroys red blood cells, causing anemia. Humans have an enzyme that breaks the chemical down during digestion so it’s not a problem to us. Dogs and cats don’t have this enzyme.

          Grapes are also dangerous and can cause kidney failure in pets.

          Despite there being a good reason for Dr. Google’s bad reputation, it’s still a good idea to do some googling (or actually ask a vet) before letting an animal eat human food. There are plenty of lists on actual veterinary sites of safe and dangerous foods for pets. Also for houseplants an animal might nibble on.

          That said, I had a cat who was crazy about corn. If corn was left unguarded for a split second, she’d jump up on the table or counter and try to run off with an entire ear. I had another cat when I was very young who stole asparagus, but I’m not sure she actually ate it – scared the crap out of my mother though who saw her carrying it and thought she’d brought a small snake in the house.

          • demodocus

            I didn’t let her have any, she stole it and we never found it anywhere.
            This cat died of old age years ago, when I didn’t have google. Sometimes I talk about long deceased in the present tense.

      • Linden

        I had a cat who loved eating corn off the cob! She was crazy about it, would watch the stove as it boiled, and get really impatient as I waited for it to cool.
        Her mother loved black olives. She would play with one, “kill it”, spit the pip out of one side of her mouth!
        o.0

      • Irène Delse

        This reminds me, my grandparents had a cat who loved to snack on melons. My grandad had found several half-eaten melons in his garden, and thought it was rabbit or some such. Then he saw the cat, digging in!

        • MI Dawn

          I had a cat that would sit up and beg for dried apricots. My mom kept them in the fridge, and any time she walked over to it, the cat would race over, sit up and beg.

          My ex and I had a cat who adored goldfish crackers. He’d bat them around, pounce on them, then eat them.

          • BeatriceC

            I had a cat that went nuts for sweet potatoes. 18 pound ginger maine coon named Booger. He was a weird cat. He died of old age back in 2012.

          • Heidi

            I knew someone who had a maine coon who for whatever reason really, really liked me. I’m sure he liked everyone, but when I was around he would not leave me alone! I wish I could have taken him with me. His owners took care of him but were just kind of doing it because he had been a stray and were willing to let me have him.

          • mabelcruet

            2 out of 3 of my cats love glace cherries-if there is cherry cake or scones lying around and accessible, they will dig the cherries out. The third one likes the cake but not the cherries. I have odd cats.

      • BeatriceC

        My birds do that, but that’s somewhat expected. I’ve never heard of a dog doing it. Funny puppies.

      • Bombshellrisa

        One of my dogs has been begging for watermelon lately. His sad eyes usually get him a little.

      • Caylynn

        Our cat with lymphoma loves Arrowroot cookies/crackers. So much for being an obligate carnivore! No one told him!

        • Bugsy

          The cat my family had when I was growing up adored chocolate glazed Dunkin Donuts. No other flavour – just the chocolate glazed.

        • Spamamander

          My Chaos-kitty adores rice pudding, refried beans, corn… steals crackers out of my hands, goes insane for 9 grain bread. And hummus. Loves hummus.

      • The Computer Ate My Nym

        I’ve seen claims that dogs are actually omnivores. Too much co-evolution with humans gave them crazy human-like digestive needs. My little mutant wolves love peppers, zucchini, and tofu. The little (6 pound) one grabbed nearly an entire zucchini once and ran off with it. Out of respect for her future poop, we did not let her keep the whole thing.

      • Stephanie Rotherham

        Our dog would eat carrots and some other scraps of fruit and veg- and he always forgot he hated bananas. My brother would be eating one and Lucky would be staring up at him with big, mournful eyes, be given a small chunk, and then spit it right out and ask for more next time! He was not a bright dog.

    • momofone

      Have you thought about wearing her? You know, so that she doesn’t have to act out her lack of attachment?

      • Heidi

        Ha! I do want to puncture a lung or an important organ. Plus, she’s already a bit too clingy.

    • Bugsy

      Given her eating poop, I take it she was a c-section birth? 🙂

      • Heidi

        I didn’t think to ask! If only I’d have known to at the time. I do think she was exclusively breastfed though! My other dog I’m pretty sure was natural birthed since he was found abandoned but he was mostly bottle fed but he doesn’t play in rabbit and squirrel poopies. That must be it – she must be a c-section pup! I’ll ask the vet about attachment therapy to heal her.

  • guest

    She doesn’t even know the difference between an “amount” of toxins and a “number” of toxins. “Over 200 toxins” is a number, not an amount.

  • J.B.

    There are plenty of chemicals in use that we don’t know much about. I think the answer to that is to actually characterize them (toxicity, etc) and propose reasonable limits. But naw, lets not bother, an enema will take it all away.

  • critter8875

    I think she’s about a step away from chemtrails.

    • AnnaPDE

      What do you mean, away? I’d actually ask her before assuming that…

    • J.B.

      Well, she’s full of dihidrogen monoxide.

      • Roadstergal

        And some other stuff.

  • T.

    I am waiting for the comeback of bloodletting.

    Just watch. It is behind the corner.

    • Monkey Professor for a Head

      I do wonder how alternative medicine folk decide what’s useful (in their eyes) and what’s not. I mean blood letting and balancing humours is rubbish but homeopathy makes sense?

      • Roadstergal

        Isn’t acupuncture ‘bloodletting light,’ as it were?

        Anyhoo, I would love to post the clip of Steve Martin as the bloodletting barber from SNL, but it doesn’t seem to be on YouTube. 🙁

        • Sean Jungian

          I just saw one with Kristen Wiig where they’re an acupuncture studio – so. much. fake. blood. EVERYWHERE!! lol it was gross but funny.

        • Irène Delse

          “Isn’t acupuncture ‘bloodletting light,’ as it were?”

          That’s how it got started on China, IIRC the summary in Science-Based Medicine.

        • D/

          Too funny, in that worrisome sort of way.

          ~~~~~
          You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter’s was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that she’s is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach.

          You charlatan! You killed my daughter, just like you killed most of my other children! Why don’t you admit it! You don’t know what you’re doing!

          http://www.hulu.com/watch/3529

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          NBC has it on their website

          http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/theodoric-of-york/n8661

          “Who’s the barber here?”

          • Roadstergal

            That’s the one!!

            Oh, Gilda Radner…

    • Irène Delse

      Indeed, it’s already there. Just Google “wet cupping”. *Ick*

      • T.

        Aaand you are right.

        I have no bloody (adjective of quality) words.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      Bloodletting is a useful therapy for at least 2 conditions: hemochromatosis and polycythemia vera. Plus, with hemochromatosis, you can reuse the blood in people who need it. Cleansing is actually less use than bloodletting.

      • T.

        Oh yeah, like many “alternative medicine” things, bloodletting can be useful in some circustances. Vitamin C will dave your life if you have scurvy. But “wet cupping” and Vitamin C for cancer are another thing entirely.

  • Mrs.Katt the Cat

    Isn’t the detox craze at odds with the ideas of ‘innate healing intelligence ‘ and the whole ‘trust your body’ it knows best ideal?

    • Azuran

      And most of the people who detox are also a lot into organic, no OGM, natural, no chemical blablabla lifestyle. Where are they even getting all those toxins they keep cleansing?

      • Kerlyssa

        it’s very Fallen World religious type thinking. see, _nature_ is eprfect, but humanity has mucked up nature, and therefore, Toxins

      • Steph858

        Maybe they spend a little too much time in one of those all-natural lead/mercury/crocidolite mines …

    • Amy

      It’s definitely at odds with what naturopaths and chiropractors are trying to sell you when peddling their services……but they’re the first ones to play up the importance of detoxing when it involves supplements they want to sell you.

      • Irène Delse

        The concept of “detoxing” is already baffling, but when it involves *adding* stuff to your body, it makes even less sense than the traditional practices of fasting, purging and bloodletting.

        • I remember the PUKE session in which they tried to convince a bunch of college* students to do some detoxing. By which they meant to have a certain number of alcohol-free days a week.

          *In the English sense so junior/community college to Americans.

    • Ron Roy

      No. The body can heal itself providing you give it what it needs to do so. See that wasn’t that complicated.

  • Amy

    Two thoughts…

    1) Wasn’t Vani Hari originally some sort of scientist? A chemist, I thought? There is no excuse for this peddling of ignorance on her part. She’s doing it for the notoriety and the money, pure and simple.

    2) My absolute FAVORITE is people who “detox” by consuming “alkalizing” foods. Things like kale and LEMONS. Lemons, with a pH of what, 2? Do these people even know what alkaline means?

    Wondering if our favorite recent troll will show up to explain this to me.

    • Mary Hopkins

      Her degree is in computer science. Apparently selling bullshit pays way better.

      • Irène Delse

        A degree in computer science makes a lot more sense than a degree of chemistry. Heck, she probably forgot everything she learned about earth and life sciences (lemon juice is acid, air is mostly nitrogen) in elementary school!

        • Empliau

          Also she is obviously not a Star Trek fan (TOS). Seemingly all my life I have seen the crew getting ready to go to Class M planets, described as having nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere, without respirators. (Evidently very few planets with toxic/unbreathable atmospheres were in the show’s budget.)

          • Roadstergal

            Leela, when asked if there’s anything to eat on a new planet – “It’s a Class M planet, so it should at least have roddenberries.”

      • Dr Kitty

        My husband has a degree in Computer Science and didn’t know that the placenta came out after the baby until he saw our daughter’s being lifted out of my abdomen (“Um…what’s that?” “It’s the placenta” “Is it supposed to come out?”, “Yup” ,”And look like that?”, “Yup”, “Ok then”).

        He’s excellent at coding, but you wouldn’t want to rely on his knowledge of biology…

        • Empliau

          Dave Barry once proposed sentencing people to look at placentas as an alternative to incarceration. It seems that during his son’s birth they showed it to him, assuming he was interested. It left a lasting impression …

    • swbarnes2

      Vani Hari was the one who revealed the startling secret that Big Airlines didn’t want you to know…that the air they circulate in the cabin is mostly nitrogen.

      Yeah, that’s what she wrote. She tried to erase it from the internet, but lots of people saved it.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        Yeah, which is why I knew she wasn’t a chemist.

    • Sean Jungian

      I’m a member of “Banned by Food Babe” on Facebook, where we kind of keep an eye on what nonsense she’s up to and enjoy mocking her to a certain extent.

      She’s a total joke, her popularity has been waning and I hope it continues to do so. Plus, she’s pregnant, hoo-boy. I doubt she’ll go all-in for NCB though, she’s far too enamored of her comforts to do that.

      • Amy M

        I showed this particular Foodbabe article to my husband yesterday and we were discussing whether or not she truly believes what she’s telling people, or if she knows perfectly well that she’s full of shit and is just out-right taking advantage of gullible/desperate people.

        • Sean Jungian

          I fluctuate on that. I think she may have started out mostly a true-believer, and I think to an extent she still is. However, what she really seems to crave is attention and the spotlight (along with her many many vacations financed by her “Army”) and she’s not too picky about how she gets it.

      • Roadstergal

        “Plus, she’s pregnant, hoo-boy”

        That might actually raise her popularity back up again. As we know all too well, there’s a lot of pregnancy/childbirth/child-raising woo out there, and a community that laps it right up.

        Breastmilk Woo from the Food Babe is coming. And The Evil Toxins In Formula. Then, the Evil Toxins in commercial baby food, with her own line of baby food as a conveeenient alterative. Her pregnancy and parenting is going to be the woo-train that keeps on giving.

        • Sean Jungian

          I don’t know if she’ll actually jump on the breastfeeding/NCB train unless there’s a way she can monetize it. She’s basically an affiliate marketer so I think she’ll have links to things like cloth diapers, Tulas, and maybe organic formula, babyfood, etc.

          • Roadstergal

            I can see that being a moneymaking machine. Food-Babe-Approved prenatal supplements, Glucola replacements, breastmilk-enhancing tea, ‘acceptable’ formula, baby food, diapers, baby blankets and clothes and toys, toddler bedding and clothes and toys, toddler snacks… it can go all of the way into teen-hood.

          • Sean Jungian

            With her popularity waning, my cynical side wonders if she got pregnant specifically for the financial bonanza it would give her “brand”…

          • Roadstergal

            You’re not the only one who thought that.

        • Heidi

          I think she already covered the evil toxins in formula way before being pregnant. Something about DHA and only one kind of organic formula is okay, one that’s not even marked for infant use.

          • Roadstergal

            And didn’t she say that Glucola is ‘toxic’ and pregnant women shouldn’t take the GTT?

        • BeatriceC

          Is anybody secretly hoping for lactation failure? Just me? Imma gonna go lock evil and snarky Beatrice back in their cages now.

          • MI Dawn

            Got room in that cage? My BFF and I call that person our Zelda side…

          • Who?

            I understand the sentiment, but what if stubbornness outweighs good sense? There’s only one true victim in that scenario, and it isn’t mum.

          • BeatriceC

            Excellent point.

          • Azuran

            If anything, she’d probably feed the baby formula while lying and pretending she’s breastfeeding it. And selling more crap to help people be successful in breastfeeding.

          • Roadstergal

            I think she could work her way around it. Namely, blame lactation failure on the ‘toxins’ that accumulated before she ‘wised up,’ and sell both a new set of Hari-approved detoxes and Hari-approved formula on her site.

    • Charybdis

      Vani Hari sounds like Mata Hari’s less attractive and successful sister…