Pity Donald Trump

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I’ve made no secret of my contempt for Donald Trump and everything he has promoted. As I watch his candidacy implode I am torn between relief and pity, relief for the country and our future, pity for Trump himself.

Why should we pity Donald Trump? Because his deepest, darkest fears are coming true.

Donald Trump is empty, pathologically needy, fragile and self-hating.

Trump clearly suffers from narcissistic personality disorder.

According to the Mayo Clinic website:

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a psychological disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that’s vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

Symptoms include:

  • Requiring constant admiration
  • Having a sense of entitlement
  • Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
  • Taking advantage of others to get what you want
  • Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others

The paradox of NPD is that the outward show of bluff and bluster conceals deep seated insecurity. Donald Trump is plagued by pain, fear and emptiness.

As this blogger explains:

For all the narcissist’s ‘confidence’ and ‘acclaim’ and statements of ‘specialness’ about him or herself – the narcissist has an very poorly defined Inner Self, and is constantly plagued by feelings of inadequacy and not being good enough.

The narcissists tries to be ‘perfect’, ‘special’ ‘wealthy’ supportive’ ‘attractive’ ‘an incredible lover’ or ‘wonderful’ or whatever it takes to win your approval (in order to feed and maintain his or her False Self), and then acts incredibly imperfectly when he or she does not get the payoff (you mirroring back sufficiently) to maintain feeling ‘perfect’, ‘special’ ‘wealthy’ ‘attractive’ or ‘wonderful’.

It is the same False Self (ego) which tries so hard to be approved of, which when not being sustained by ‘the outside’ constantly (a necessity because it is not self-sustaining) becomes pathological and vengeful and behaves atrociously…

The larger the ego the more pronounced the backlash…

Trump has a monstrously large ego and as his primal fear of abandonment appears to be coming true, he has created a monstrous backlash.

Trump has brought this upon himself. He has lied, cheated and stolen during his entire professional life. He has made vicious racial slurs a centerpiece of his campaign along with malignant misogyny. Yet he has been undone, not by this egregious flouting of American values, but by his own words. A 2005 tape from Access Hollywood reveals Trump bragging about sexually assaulting a married woman among others, claiming his fame excuses his predatory behavior.

This startling revelation could have been predicted — indeed would have been predicted — had Trump allowed his own campaign to examine his past. This is standard procedure for a political campaign. It is imperative to identify and neutralize any questionable statements or behavior before the opposing side finds it and uses it. But Trump would not allow his campaign to perform a basic task of due diligence.

That’s not the action of a politician; that’s the desperation of a narcissist. Trump needs to see himself as special and above reproach. He was aware that research would reveal that he was neither and so he quashed the research. Finding out about the faults he knew he had and the missteps that he knew made was literally intolerable to him.

Now that those ugly faults have been revealed Trump is reacting with psychological projection, the narcissist’s favorite tactic.

Narcissists don’t like the fact they are empty, needy for approval, pathologically envious, and have horrible thoughts about themselves and other people. They detest their own feelings of vulnerability, deep shame and unworthiness…

Narcissistic injury feels like emotional annihilation to the narcissist. It is unthinkable, unbearable and will be avoided at all costs.

The narcissist’s … goes into automatic deflection and projection.

He ­­or she will inevitably assign these parts on to [others].

This ensures two things:

1) [They] are punished for challenging the [narcissist] and

2) [They] become the atrocious person who has committed all of these unacceptable things…

Hence Trump’s jaw-dropping performance at today’s rally in West Palm Beach: Trump denied his own failings — lying, smearing others, sexual predation — and tried to pin them on everyone else. According to Trump:

The establishment and their media enablers wield control over this nation through means that are very well known. Anyone who challenges their control is deemed a sexist, a racist, a xenophobe and morally deformed. They will attack you. They will slander you. They will seek to destroy your career and your family. They will seek to destroy everything about you, including your reputation. They will lie, lie, lie. And then, again, they will do worse than that. They will do whatever’s necessary…

But the liar is Trump. He’s lied about everyone and everything. Virtually every word that comes out of his mouth is a lie. He slanders people; he threatens them; he promises to destroy them and lock them up. He is just as likely to lie about, threaten and promise to destroy his erstwhile allies in the Republican Party as he is to lie about, threaten and promise to destroy his enemies in the Democratic Party.

When presented with indisputable evidence that he is a sexual predator, his knee-jerk response is to drag Bill Clinton into the muck with him is a sexual predator; claims about Bill Clinton’s behavior explored in excruciating detail during Clinton’s impeachment and could not be proven. Moreover, even if Bill Clinton were a predator that would not excuse Trump’s sexual predation.

Donald Trump is empty, pathologically needy, fragile and self-hating. His rejection by the voters, the press and the world is unthinkable and unbearable. His monumental narcissism has led to an extraordinarily vengeful response against enemies and friends alike. He is hurting his family, his party and his country, but he doesn’t care. He feels like he is being emotionally annihilated and he has adopted scorched earth tactics in response.

We should pity him.

  • Gene

    OT: another homebirth death. This time of a mother. Complicated by the fact that she was JW and refused blood after an emergency hysterectomy following a midwife assisted home birth. First article doesn’t mention homebirth. Second has more info.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-jehovahs-witness-death-young-mom-investigation-1.3806578

    http://jwsurvey.org/news/news-bulletin-eloise-dupuis-dead-at-27-watchtower-claims-another-victim-son-left-motherless

    • Box of Salt

      From Gene’s second link:
      “Jehovah’s Witnesses frequently test the boundaries of of medicine by
      announcing that they desire the highest standard of medical care, but
      when life is on the line, will reject the one treatment which will save
      their life -the blood transfusion.”

      This woman did not have to die.

      • Azuran

        Maybe she didn’t. But she was an adult. If it was her decision, then there is nothing more to say about it.
        Either we respect patient autonomy, or we don’t.

        She’s not the first JW who died after refusing a transfusion. But people are angered by this one because or the baby.
        Which I feel is more of the mother martyrdom rhetoric. Somehow, now that she had a baby, her own bodily autonomy and personal wishes are to be ignored because of what’s best for the baby.

    • mabelcruet

      That’s so sad, and so unnecessary. However, I think it is good proof that generally the medical and nursing professions will abide by patient autonomy and respect their patients wishes regardless of their own personal beliefs. The doctors and nurses looking after this woman and her family must have wanted to do something, and must have been very frustrated knowing that they couldn’t do something as simple as a blood transfusion because of the patient’s beliefs. In the UK I think we have had some legal cases involving JW patients and there are some well established guidelines.

      • Azuran

        I’m pretty sure we have well established guidelines as well.

        • mabelcruet

          Sorry, my comment sounded a bit awkward towards the end-I know health care systems everywhere are generally well set up to look after folk of different faiths and beliefs. I was going to go on and say that patient autonomy is such an important part of health care to the extent that we have to stand back and watch a patient die. In the homebirth literature, there is a common theme that women complained of being bullied, pressured, forced into treatment against their wishes, ignored and overruled and belittled-I fully recognise that many women may have had a difficult or emotionally impactful birth, but I do find it hard to correlate this constant theme of being forced into something they didn’t want with the fact that patient autonomy is so powerful that doctors must stand aside if thats what the patient requires due to their beliefs. The two don’t seem to sit together.

  • Chi

    OT: A facebook ‘friend’ (I use that term lightly because even though I know her IRL I don’t agree with a number of her parenting decisions and thus tend to avoid her) commented on a post by a community called “The Positive Birth Movement”.

    Here’s a link to the group: https://www.facebook.com/positivebirthmovement/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

    The post is about the 3rd one down from the top but here’s the text:

    “From our inbox “Hello – I’m looking for some support and positivity. I’m 39 weeks pregnant and am experiencing some pressure from consultant to be induced at 40 weeks as I am over 40 years of age (just turned 42). It’s my second baby and I went over by 12 days with my first before agreeing to induction which I desperately want to avoid again – especially at this much earlier stage. On the one hand I just want to trust my body, I know there are increased risks, but they are still small, but I am scared and any consultant contact is making me very anxious – which is obviously extremely unhelpful!”

    And oh god the comments. How do people buy into this shit? Seriously, have they not ONCE stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe the consultant is ACTUALLY more qualified to make this suggestion than your so-called ‘mama instincts’???

    My friend’s comment is particularly face-palm worthy:

    “Ask for specific, quantitative evidence that still being in you is detrimental for your child.”

    Oh and this gem: “This article goes into all the evidence, and it shows that for a second baby the risk of something happening in the womb before birth is lower in older women having their second babies than it is for women under 35 having their first. It might be worth asking your consultant what evidence he is basing his advice on given that this is your second baby http://evidencebasedbirth.com/advanced-maternal-age/

    Thoughts??

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      Sorry I have no logical thoughts..I had my only surviving child at age 33. It took ten years and 2 miscarriages( one requiring a D&C and one that sent me into shock from blood loss and crashing BP ) to have my daughter. I don’t understand when people say, oh we should trust nature, let nature take it’s course. My personal experience is that nature is a bitch that’s actively trying to kill you about half the time…

      I figured when the monitor told them her heartrate was too slow and we needed to expedite the delivery with the vacuum and get her out NOW, the doctors probably knew more than me..

      • RMY

        Tell me about it, trying to conceive through 8 TDI cycles: 1st we tried natural, then minimal intervention, and if we try again, it will likely be maximum intervention (I still have to get my wife on board with it, which is odd as I’m going to be the one becoming the pincushion). If I do get pregnant, you can bet your bottom dollar that I’d do whatever the doctor suggested would be safest for the baby.

    • Who?

      Sad thing is, if she asks for ‘specific, quantitive evidence’ and the doctor gives it, s/he’ll get done for ‘playing the dead bay card’.

      What she wants is to be told she can do what she wants and have a perfect outcome. She has not yet realised it’s not over until it’s over, that a perfect outcome is not guaranteed however and whenever baby arrives, and the best chance of a good outcome is to take the damn advice.

      • Chi

        Exactly. And instead of discussing her concerns with the doctor like a rational, mature adult, she’s run to this Facebook group so she can play the victim and say that the consultant is ‘bullying her’ and woe is me I won’t get my perfect magical birth.

        She just wants back pats and affirmations, once more proving that the baby is just a fucking prop to their moronic ideals.

        I just can’t even. And the fact that my friend (who had to have a c-section for her birth cos he refused to descend) is jumping on this train scares me because I think she’s likely to be one of those who tries for a ‘healing VBAC’.

        • Erin

          I don’t think it’s quite that simple. Part of me desperately doesn’t want another c-section, I know people think I’m joking when I tell them my instinct is to run away and hide. There aren’t enough words to describe how revolting, repulsive and wrong my experience of my son’s arrival was. I still have nightmares about my experience of his delivery and then have to go (or more likely send my husband) to check that he’s in his bed and still breathing…that the nebulous “Real” parents haven’t stolen him away.

          I’ve tried discussing my concerns and fears with my Doctors but they don’t get it. They pat me on the hand and tell me that I’ll be fine or that I’m just panicking and once I’m holding the baby everything will be okay.

          Maybe I’m being too kind, but I see it more as someone who is looking for any other solution out of desperation than someone who sees their baby as a prop.

          (Don’t suppose anyone has invented that transporter for beaming babies out yet?)

          • Sarah

            I wonder if you’ve been able to speak to any specialists about these feelings? MH people I mean.

          • Erin

            Yes and no.

            Yes in that I’ve seen two psychiatrists, a clinical psychologist, a community psychiatric nurse and a mental health midwife in the period between my son’s arrival and now.

            No in that I haven’t exactly been forthcoming with any of them apart from psychiatrist n1 who told me I’d get over it on my own.

            The mental health midwife feels that breastfeeding will fix everything.
            Psychiatrist n2 told me not to get pregnant again until I’d dealt with my issues and is now doing a fairly decent impression of Pontius Pilate in washing his hands of me. In an ideal world, I would have followed his advice but since I’m no closer to have dealt with them and will be 39 by the time this baby arrives, I didn’t feel I had the time to wait.
            The CPN heard “didn’t give birth” and assumed I was saying that ALL sections weren’t giving birth and proceeded to lecture me about her beautiful c-section experience and her daughter’s beautiful c-section experience.

            In my experience “bad” births from an emotional perspective don’t seem to count. It’s your fault for having “unrealistic” expectations (when all our NHS ante-natal classes would focus on was breastfeeding and normal birth) or not trying hard enough. You’ve got what you wanted in a healthy baby so the attitude seems very much “deal with it”.

          • PeggySue

            I am so, so sorry. It seems that medical professionals sometimes are stuck in the need to have an answer right away and it is hard to sit still and listen to the whole story. I am a chaplain and listening for the whole story is something that I am determined about, because it is so crucially important. I would love the transporter approach. You are very brave, Erin, and I hope you can hear that. How things will go is as yet unknown but no matter what you are very brave and you will do the best you can and the rest of them can go hang. It might not be the marvelous experience everyone blabs about, but then it might be.

          • Empliau

            I am so sorry for your situation. Is there any one you can trust who would be your advocate? I think I remember that you want a GA Caesarian … if so, and if overbearing and patronizing people are assuring you that if you just (fill in the blank) that you’ll be fine, you need someone to, in the words of Mr. Burns, “Release the hounds!” (If you’re not a Simpsons fan, you still get the picture.) You, and not they, have the best knowledge of what you need to survive and thrive during and after this pregnancy. Don’t hesitate to make what the immortal Ramona calls “a great big noisy fuss”. They count on your capitulation and compliance, for better or worse reasons. If you can’t fight them alone, get someone in your corner who will demand humane treatment for you. You have a right to treatment this time around that will not trigger your PTSD. Give ’em hell, girlfriend. Here in the interwebz there are scores, maybe hundreds, maybe more of us in your corner.

          • Erin

            I’m getting what I want, would be lying if I said my Doctors were super awesomely happy about it but so far they haven’t backed out and I don’t think they will. They just can’t understand why I’m deliberately choosing to miss my child’s birth and in a couple of cases in particular (especially the Doctors who were at my son’s arrival) desperately want to make the experience better for me.

            When push comes to shove, I can channel my Mother who I’m sure was precisely what they had in mind when they wrote the lyrics “Loud Wagnerian Mother with a voice that can shatter glass” in My Fair Lady and if that fails, I learnt the ability to cry at will as a little girl with a huge mostly male extended family. As a last last last resort, I could just set my Mother on them.

          • Who?

            Ultimately, this path is the one you’ve chosen in the hope and belief that you’ll be well and the baby will be well on the other side of the delivery.

            Just the fact that you’ve been able to negotiate that is fantastic.

            I hope it goes well for both of you.

          • Sarah

            Well that all sounds very useful.

          • Erin

            Definitely. My journey through the mental health system has been “interesting”. I admit I’m not the model patient though.

    • Tori

      Obviously not knowing her, and not buying into the woo, I’d just take that induction if it was me. Just keep my baby safe! So it makes me wonder, how much has she bought into the woo, but also if there was something particularly that bothered her in the first induction? She has said she’s ‘desperately’ trying to avoid the induction again. This could be for any number of reasons, but if it’s because of something specific rather than ‘nature’ it might be able to be understood better… And talked about!

      • Chi

        The OP isn’t my friend, my friend just commented.

        But yes I agree that the OP needs to talk about WHY she doesn’t want another induction so her consultant can give her the risks and benefits and maybe come up with an alternative plan.

        • Tori

          Of course. I’m sorry, hypothesising out loud!! The ‘why’ makes all the difference to me. Might make whatever upset her about the earlier induction easier too.

    • N

      What people tend to forget IMO is, that every case, every situation is unique. And as such, only a Doctor that sees you on a regular basis can decide what your problem is and how to proceed. If the doctor sees that pregnant woman over 40 (years and weeks of pregnancy) he can decide wether to induce her or not, and only he can. Strangers especially from the Internet cannot do that.
      Other personal anecdotal examples:
      – During all my pregnancies I was told, that my body could do it, to search for a doctor that would let me try a VB. Even with my 3rd after 2C they told me things like, but than wait at least until the contractions. … Nope. my OB sees me on a regular basis and with this 3rd one explained me exactly why not to wait until contractions – one point was that with the second baby we tried VBAC and it didn’t work, although contractions where really intensive. OB was afraid, that if we we wait and contractions start and get that intensive before I reach the OP, it could get bloody. He sees me, knows my history and even if other women could wait until contractions, I couldn’t.
      – My last one is ill now, still not better. He has a bad case of some kind of stomatitis. According to my ped who saw into the mouth of little one and who listened to me telling him that two days before the first spots appeared, he fell on his chin and bit into his tongue and the first spots are exactly where the wounds are, it is bacterial. So antibiotics are good for him. Friends tell me now, that normally with stomatitis it’s a virus and so no need for bad antibiotics! … No, my doctor saw the mouth, and in this particular case it is not what would happen normally!
      – A friend of mine has a bad case of neurodermitis, suffers her whole life, allergic to a lot of things. Her doctor told her as last resort to try to shower everyday with Citeal, a hospital soap. I was about to tell her that, well, normally one would try to wash with oils rather than such aggressive soaps, that it could hurt the skin more than help. … Nope. her doctor sees her on a regular basis, they have tried a hell lot of things and, well Citeal works for her.

    • mabelcruet

      Sorry, I read the first post which was about how giving birth meant you went travelling to the stars to collect your baby’s soul, and noped right out of there.

      • Sue

        LOLing about “noped right out”.

      • Who?

        I am adopting ‘noped right out’ forthwith.

  • Dr. W

    I am board certified in psychiatry, and I think it is total amateur hour to diagnose via TV. It was bush league with Goldwater. “Dr.” Ablow is constantly diagnosing people he never met because he is a bush leaguer.

    Trump is a self-centered, thin-skinned, angry, sexist, racist, child. I could go on and on insulting Trump with the most vile and salty language and still not convey the depth of my disgust. I cannot believe how many will vote for him when he is, transparently, an utterly despicable excuse for a mammal, who should never be president, not even a pretend president a movie or president of a book club.

    All that being said, we do not have to pathologize his evil. Not every human foible is illness. Most jerks are just jerks. Trump is an amazing jerk we should never let anywhere near the nuke codes. I feel like calling it illness just relieves Trump of some of the responsibility for his actions. I think he bears total responsibility. Given everything and this is what he has done with his life? Yuck. I do not like using a medical degree as a weapon. I do not like excusing choices via DSM.

    I understand that many decent people are groping to understand how America got “here”. How did Trump even got this close? How there can be this many actual humans willing to vote for him? I don’t know. I am going to fight it. But dressing this up in cluster B is putting a feather boa on a demon. It takes away from the gravity, and this shit should feel heavy.

    • Who?

      Thanks for this. Pathologising being obnoxious is tempting because it is comforting I think. But you’re right it’s a free pass he doesn’t deserve.

    • Sue

      In principle I agree, but is a personality disorder really a psychiatric illness?

      Maybe the adjectives “narcissistic” is correct, without having to invoke a disorder.

      • hmmm

        Where personality disorder ends and son of a gun begins is always a good question, but diagnosis has consequences. Once you have labeled a woman a borderline personality, the words might as well glow on the page. Trump is obviously extremely narcissistic, yes. I just do not approve of publicly diagnosing a human you have never met.

    • Roadstergal

      I couldn’t agree with you more. I don’t like ‘internet diagnoses.’ He’s a bigoted, misogynistic, self-important twatwaffle. I don’t need to crack the DSM and pretend I know anything about that area to say that much.

  • fiftyfifty1

    OT: Has anybody commented yet on the JAMA 10/11/16 viewpoint by Woo, Milstein and Platchek advocating that more births should occur in outpatient Birth Centers? Pretty pathetic. They write zingers like:

    “In some existing centers, variability in education and licensure among midwives…[…]…creates potential concern about the quality of care provided.” (Wow, you don’t say!).

    Or “[P]atients in the United States are increasingly demanding a birth experience that provides interventions only when necessary.” Is this even true? Certainly a small minority advocates for this loudly. But does the average woman really want to deliver out of the hospital away from access to effective pain control?

    They keep talking up how great UK midwife-led units are with nary a mention of their recent safety scandals or the UK’s high stillbirth rate. But then they go on to tut-tut about how the United States is 57th in…wait for it… *infant* mortality (not neonatal mortality, the correct measure, where the US has excellent numbers). Are these people cribbing directly from the NCB bingo card?

    They even go on to propose more outpatient birth centers as a fix for the staffing challenges that the US faces in its large rural areas. They bemoan that many small community hospitals don’t staff a 24/7 in-house OB, but then imply that the problem will be solved if more women deliver in Birth Centers where only a midwife is available! What is their reasoning on this?!

    • Sarah

      From what you’re posting here, it also seems they’re wrongly conflating out of hospital midwife led units with midwife led units in hospitals, right next to consultant led units.

      The former are very much a minority concern in the UK, and at least two are, to my certain knowledge, very undersubscribed (the one in my city and Dr K’s local one). The latter are extremely popular, in no small part because a lot of women who prefer midwife led care also feel reassured by the possibility of being in the same building as consultant led care should it be necessary. Hedging their bets, basically. There’s a very significant difference between the two. This is before we consider factors such as the UK’s geography and the health of the pregnant population, both of which differ from the US.

      • Erin

        Amongst my friends the standalone units are really popular. I find it terrifying because they are (in my opinion) too far away from proper assistance. One of my friends almost died in an ambulance being rushed the 30 odd miles to the nearest operating theater.

        We live in a rural area with “interesting” roads, a shortage of ambulances (did a first aid course last week and the Paramedic doing it was rather unhappy about women trying to have babies in the middle of nowhere) and are pretty much as far as away from the two main hospitals as it’s possible to be.

        • Sarah

          They worry me too. In both my labours I have wanted drugs, so midwife led wouldn’t have been possible even had things not got complicated (before any drugs being administered, in case any NCB fetishists are reading). But if I had, I’d have chosen a hospital MLU. The stand alone MLU in my city is in a built up area, so we don’t have the issue of remoteness, but distance from consultant led if things go tits up was still a concern.

          Fortunately though, your friends are unrepresentative. Of the UK women who want midwife led births, more go for hospital MLUs than standalone and homebirth combined. Honestly, I think the only reason the NCB crowd in the US aren’t trying harder to push that option is because of the CNM v CPM issue.

          • Erin

            What annoys me the most is that here you can not access the Consultant led labour wards unless you have a risk factor. For example it took me 60 odd hours of broken waters and finally snapping and demanding an vaginal examination before I was “allowed” in.

            I had more than one friend who wanted an epidural and made that clear before hand but only found out they couldn’t have one when they showed up in labour and were found too “low” risk.

          • demodocus

            Since when is a desire for pain relief something only high risk people need? Battier than the decorations on my neighbors’ houses this month

          • Sarah

            Really? That’s awful. The 60 hour thing in particular is terribly bad practice. I was actually barred from entering the MLU only 24 hours after rupture of membranes! CLU only from that point on.

          • Erin

            Shortage of staff, plus apparently I didn’t look like I was in “proper” labour. She couldn’t believe I was 5 cms dilated with a back to back baby because I looked “so calm”.

            Just been reading about the new Baby Boxes we’re going to be getting here in Scotland. Can’t help but feel we’d be better off spending the 5 million on people to deliver the babies.

          • Sarah

            Probably.

          • Roadstergal

            Baby boxes?

            (I have a friend in Scotland with two babies, and it does seem to be very into the NCB/EBF woo across the medical system? :/ )

          • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

            They have these baby boxes in Finland.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_package

          • Erin
        • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

          Wow, 30 miles! I wouldn’t deliver that far from medical help! In point of fact, that would be the case in a lot of rural areas in the US.

    • mabelcruet

      As Sarah said in her response, I think they haven’t distinguished between completely stand alone midwife units where there is no medical presence of any kind, and midwife led units in hospital, where there are consultants available if needed. In my area, the stand alone unit delivered 20 babies in one year-20. Women simply don’t want to go there-many more had their antenatal care there, but when it comes to delivery, the place of delivery is usually the hospital midwife unit. Even with the availability of medical care close by, there is a low threshold for moving women with any risks factors or complications from the midwife unit to the medical unit.

    • AA

      All three authors are part of Stanford’s Clinical Excellence Research Center. The Clinical Excellence Research Center uses the phrase “lean efficiencies” frequently, if that gives you an idea of their process. I think they are exploring an outpatient birth center as a possible part of their Innovative Care Design centers, but as you have said, there are some faults with their logic.

      They don’t provide a citation for women wanting fewer interventions during labor & delivery, and then say that women w/ planned OOH birth have fewer operative deliveries & episiotomies (the cited study for that is the UK Birthplace Study)

      • RMY

        I’ll do a scientific study about people who don’t go to optometrists have fewer corrective lenses. It’ll be groundbreaking. (And I’ll ignore any evidence that the optometrist-abstaining population suffers from undiagnosed vision problems more often.)

  • lilin

    I’m still worried that the surge in polls numbers for Clinton will make voters apathetic. Trump can be president, people! Stay scared until the polls close!

    However, I would not be Trump for anything. What a grotesque joke of a man. The phenomenal ladies man . . . who repulses every woman he clumsily hits on. The brilliant business leader . . . who lost nearly a billion dollars. The man whose go-to insult is “loser” and who despises women . . . who (let’s hope) is soon to be the most public loser in the world and who is going to lose to a woman.

    • Roadstergal

      I agree with you. The best way to repudiate everything Trump has been saying, everything he stands for, is to make sure it’s not just a loss, but a historic landslide.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        I said it below. I am excited to be part of the total destruction of him. I wish I could vote twice just for that purpose.

        • demodocus

          himself will probably argue that you did, eyerolll

        • BeatriceC

          I live in California, which is practically guaranteed to go Clinton, but I’m still going to make sure I vote to add to the population vote numbers.

    • momofone

      My son said a few days ago that Trump’s treatment of people reminds him of our now-elderly dog in her younger days, when she would behead and pull the stuffing out of every new toy, then toss it aside and wait for the next one. I thought it was an apt analogy.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        I don’t like that, because I refuse to compare my little Boston to Trump.

        Sorry, no, they are not similar. Dogs do it because they don’t know better. Trump does it because he’s an asshole.

        • momofone

          Good point. It still works for me though.

        • Roadstergal

          Dogs do it because it’s actually a useful thing for them to do. Terriers are bred to capture and kill vermin. (The amount of stuffing I’ve cleaned up from the floor over the years…)

    • Dinolindor

      The loser thing baffles me – he’s calling Paul Ryan a loser and boasting that he’ll show the guy how winning is done. Well, Ryan had to win his election to be in the position he’s in now. Trump hasn’t actually won an elected position yet.

      • J.B.

        Sort of like the perfect parent who hasn’t had kids yet.

        • Roadstergal

          Or, to bring it around to a frequent feature of this site, the woman who hasn’t had kids yet lecturing the bottle-feeding mom. :p

      • Maud Pie

        The election is less than a month away, he’s gotten the October surprise he doesn’t want, and what does he do? He goes on the warpath against members of his own party?! Instead of scrambling to reverse his losses he throws spiteful tantrums against the people he would have to work with if elected. That’s irrefutable proof of his unfitness. But his peanut gallery of deplorables and gullibles can’t see it.

        I really hope that more research is done on mob mentality and charismatic charlatans. It would be so helpful to understand why some people gulp down the Kool Aid even when the poison is in plain sight. This really baffles me because it’s so contrary to my nature. I’m super-introverted, an INTJ on Myer-Briggs, and I’m always put off by anyone who acquires easy popularity through emotional appeals to the mobs’ fears and resentments. The sight of a frenzied crowd alarms me–I even hated pep rallies in school. Weak arguments annoy me even when I agree with the point being made.

        Why can’t the whole world be rational introverts who would rather stay home and read than stir up trouble?

        • Dinolindor

          “I’m super-introverted, an INTJ on Myer-Briggs, and I’m always put off by anyone who acquires easy popularity through emotional appeals to the mobs’ fears and resentments.”

          Is this why I feel the way I do?? Because I’m an INTJ??

          Anyway, my parents have drunk the Kool Aid, and this phenomenon is especially frustrating. They live in NJ, they know there were no Muslims celebrating on rooftops on 9/11 – my parents know first hand there were zero reports of this. And yet, they swallowed Trump’s assertion that there were and expressed wonder at ME for not accepting it. These are 2 intelligent scientists, my dad with a DVM and PhD and my mom with a PhD. She is a contemporary of HRC, she knows the sexism that was rampant in higher education at the time (though very different fields). My dad is a dark-skinned immigrant (though he came legally and has been a citizen for decades now). They are actively voting against their interests and I cannot figure out how they rationalize this at all.

          • demodocus

            that’s rather an unusual pair of supporters for him

          • Dinolindor

            They’re life-long republican voters. I don’t think they’ve realized where they’ve drifted in terms of what the republican party has become. At least, that’s how I explain it so I can sleep at night (sort of – I’ve definitely been in anxiety-land because of their choice).

          • Sean Jungian

            That’s got to be a tough spot to be in. I have some friends who have drifted the same way, and fortunately we’re on kind of a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy for this election. I love them but feel they are completely misguided. We don’t discuss anything to do with politics. We can’t, and stay friends. No doubt they feel that I am the completely misguided one.

          • Dinolindor

            It is tough. I’m mostly avoiding the topic except where I’m relating a problem or new solution to something to my mom, and there’s a direct connection to a policy that HRC has on her website. I’ve gone off on the Trump tirades of how he is completely unfit and untrustworthy. It fell on deaf ears. I’m not sure how to win them over to reason, and am mostly remaining silent until I can figure out a plan (other than “if you vote for Trump, don’t come for Christmas.” As momentarily satisfying that shock would be, I know that’s a bad long game for all concerned). So in the meantime, I get to visit my family for a special promotion ceremony for my brother in the Navy (another lifelong republican) with all of my family…on Nov 4th. I was so hoping I wouldn’t have to see them and be generally cordial until after the election, but nope. Oh well.

          • Roadstergal
          • Dinolindor

            Unfortunately, only a little bit. They straddle both Despite and Because, I think. They’re evangelical Christians, which I think makes up the most baffling and hypocritical segment of Trump’s support.

          • J.B.

            One now lefty, former fundamentalist: http://samanthapfield.com/2016/08/10/hast-thou-wrought-christians-trump/. Not sure how much of this applies for your parents but an interesting perspective.

          • Dinolindor

            Yes, that probably fits them to some degree. I would say my family was/is fundie-light, so not quite as extreme as what the blogger describes. But my dad is a religious watcher of the 700 Club, so…..

          • Who?

            I feel bad for these people-I’m surrounded in them myself, and they truly can’t see how far from ‘conservative’ the current crop of so-called conservatives have strayed.

            And even if they do see it they refuse to countenance voting for anyone else. Since in Oz voting is compulsory (I know, how do we live, all our freedoms eaten up by having to turn up at a polling booth for 5 minutes every couple of years) it’s a shoo in for these nuts.

            Though Trump on the whole beats ours for sheer bat crap craziness.

          • demodocus

            Mind having houseguests for a few years? Just in case? 😉

          • Who?

            Well it’s pretty quiet and somewhat empty at home, so that might work out fine!

          • Roadstergal

            I just got approved to do a ‘work abroad’ at one of our Swiss locations next year for three months. Depending on the outcome of this M-F, we might try to stay. :p

            (And yes, I’ll be asking about an MMR booster. :p )

          • Maud Pie

            If you’re curious, it’s easy to find an online Myer-Briggs personality test. I know online testing is not an entirely reliable tool, but it gave me a lot of insight into why I always feel like a misfit. INTJ is the rarest personality type for females, and second rarest for both genders.

          • PeggySue

            Depending on my mood I am either INFJ or INTJ. I have a brother who is voting for Trump solely because he believes Trump will oppose abortion rights. Even though he admits Trump is kind of a jerk. He believes abortion is the one and only issue that matters and that he cannot vote for Clinton because of her pro-choice position.

          • demodocus

            My husband cannot vote for Clinton because he wants the Affordable Care Act revoked. He plans to either vote for Gary Johnson or write in Marco Rubio.

  • Amy Tuteur, MD

    Pck, who do you think Jesus would vote for? Keep in mind that Jesus probably doesn’t think the ends justify the means.

    • Pck

      Why, he would vote for you of course.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      Again, the Donald took evangelicals to a very high, huge, really, just the best vantage point on Trump Tower and showed them all the riches of Wall Street and the fame of being a celebrity; and he said to them, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and vote for me.”
      Then evangelicals said to him, “Yes, Donald! For it is written, ‘The Lord helps those who help themselves so long as there is a Supreme Court nomination and the end of the Johnson Amendment involved.’ ” Then the Donald left; and behold, the alt-Right came and began to minister to Him

      http://bilgrimage.blogspot.com/2016/10/the-donald-took-evangelicals-to-very.html

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      Damn, Amy, looks like this was the question that ran pck off. It was fun watching the HDS looneyness.

      • Pck

        Why is it that anymore who disagrees with you is always a a looney or something similar. Do you even realise how arrogant that is.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          By your fruits you shall know them

    • Pck

      All things carefully considered, probably Trump.

      • Who?

        Another reason to embrace atheism.

        • demodocus

          i haven’t, but i still agree! (I have an irrational need for something beyond)

      • Nick Sanders

        You and I apparently believe in very different Jesuses, then.

        http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/jesus-did-i-stutter.png

        • Roadstergal

          Reminds me of the ‘God doubles down on that ‘do not kill’ thing’ article the Onion ran after September 11th, 2001.

      • Roadstergal

        Did the Bible you read have all of the stuff about rich men and eyes of needles taken out? And about selling everything you own and giving it to the poor? And about Dives and Lazarus, and the Samaritan? Do you have a super-abridged Bible with just the bit about him killing the fig tree in a fit of pique? (Which is indeed the most Trumpian thing Jesus did.)

  • New Mom

    Trump has given the bigots/misogynists in the US a nice cozy space to spew their vitriol. I’m seriously concerned about what his supporters will do after the election. They already feel protected enough to assault his critics. I worry that either way, it’s going to be open season on non-whites and LGTBQ.

    • Roadstergal

      I have similar concerns. And his supporters seem to be well-armed. I worry that domestic terrorism will uptick.

      • Dinolindor

        I’m worried that domestic terrorism will uptick on Nov 8th, given that Trump is asking for volunteers to “protect the election.” In my town, I don’t think I’ll have anything to worry about in terms of voter intimidation, but I still plan to have the reporting hotline on speed dial when I go to vote.

      • Sean Jungian

        The thing that gives me some small comfort is, many if not most of these guys are purely internet Tough Guys(TM) and are far too cowardly to take it to the streets.

        Its small comfort, because there are also some seriously unhinged supporters who believe this is going to kick off the End Times or the Race War they’ve been salivating for for years.

        • Roadstergal

          I agree that’s most of them, but if 1 in 1000 – or even 1 in 10,000 – are motivated, that one guy with the right weapon can cause a lot of damage.

    • Madtowngirl

      I’ve mentioned before that I have a contingency plan for getting out of the country. I totally get that it sounds alarmist to have one. I probably won’t have to use it. But, I have a biracial child, and I am married to the son of (legal) immigrants. I have to do what is best for my family, even if it means having an alarmist plan that will never be used.

      • New Mom

        It’s horrible that you even have to consider a situation like that. 🙁

    • New Mom

      Unfortunately, it’s already started-
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/militia-terror-plot-fbi-kansas_us_58014995e4b0162c043c1e90?

      My husband just said that Trump uses similar recruiting tactics as ISIS.

      The past few weeks, have been pretty triggering. I can’t believe that in 2016, I’m having arguments with people about what ‘consent’ means.
      It’s pretty hard to have faith in humanity right now. I need to go look at pictures of kittens or something.

  • Roadstergal
    • demodocus

      Well, this reminds me why I never listened to Stern’s show. Ugly. And not the way that jerk on the other post meant.

      • Roadstergal

        I never listened to it, either. And now it’s a critical part of the election. :

      • Sean Jungian

        His show has never appealed to me, either, although I have no real reason to believe he isn’t talented at whatever it is he does.

        I don’t care for the whole “shock jock” genre in the first place. I’m definitely not their audience. I can’t even stand the morning radio crews – I will just play music I like from my phone or listen to NPR, thank you.

        • demodocus

          I like to listen to Cleveland’s classical station in the morning.

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    Mike Huckabee says Trump is like a doctor with bad bedside manner. As long as he’s a good doctor, that is not important.

    Then again, what if he’s a doctor with bad bedside manner that has had 6 malpractice suits against him? Still your guy?

    • Pck

      I wouldn’t talk about malpractice suits while discussing Clinton if I were you.

      • J.B.

        The Clintons have been tested in court over and over and over. Smoke, but no fire.

        • Pck

          But lots of smouldering embers.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        Huh? The FBI was called in. They got nothing criminal on her.

        Meanwhile, Trump and his 6 bankruptcies are the standard to which you all adhere!

        • Pck

          Since when is bankruptcy criminal?

          • Azuran

            Not criminal. But you want a guy with 6 bankruptcies to run your country’s economy?

          • Pck

            If he can turn a loss around make an enormous profit, yes absolutely. Kind of exactly what you want from your president.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Trump proposed increasing our investment in infrastructure. He wants to increase it by something like 4 times. Actually, good for him. Love to see it.

            Then he was asked: who will pay for it?
            His answer: “People. You know, investors.”

            WTF? What people are going to invest in the bridge over Timberland creek? Is it going to be a toll bridge now?

            He doesn’t have a friggin clue how government works. That is exactly NOT what you want from a president.

          • Sonja Henie

            “He doesn’t have a friggin clue how government works.”

            Exactly! He’s never been elected dog-catcher! He’s never even worked as a meter-maid! He can’t just say to a congressperson, “You’re fired!”

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Recall his proposal for reducing the deficit: just print more money.

            Seriously. That’s what he said. It’s so fucking stupid that there isn’t anything more to say

          • Amy

            So now we know he doesn’t know any history. Wiemar Republic anyone?

          • demodocus

            Trump reminds me of Weimar an alarming number of times.

          • Mishimoo

            Same, and it is genuinely concerning for me even though I live in Australia. Our economies are too enmeshed for my country (and a whole lot of others) to survive America emulating the Weimar Republic.

          • An Actual Attorney
          • Azuran

            Except that he can’t bankrupt America to get out of anything. Basically, he’s throwing money at everything and when it doesn’t work out he just pulls the plug. You can’t do that with a country.

          • Pck

            So, how is that budget deficit at the moment?

          • Azuran

            No idea, But I still know that you can’t bankrupt the country out of this one. Which apparently means I’m more qualified than Trump.

          • Nick Sanders

            Down by about $1 trillion since Obama took office.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Notice that all economics estimates predict that Trump will create far more debt than Clinton. Then again, most estimates predict Trump to destroy the US economy

            Then again, what do you expect for someone who knows nothing about national economy?

          • demodocus

            he turned it by doing ads and selling his name. i’m not so sure that sort of thing would work on a national scale

          • Nick Sanders

            It was a personal profit at the expense of everyone else involved. Definitely not what I want in a president.

          • momofone

            Maybe what you want, definitely not what I want.

          • Taysha

            Bankruptcy is questionable if you’re going to be in charge of budgeting a country.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            It’s not. Nor are malpractice suits. They are both civil.

            And they both show they have failed in their jobs. (I should add, LOST malpractice suits).

            Remember, Huck’s claim is that you go to the doctor with bad bedside manner if he is good at his job. The point is that you are supposed to overlook Trump’s personal failures. But overlooking Trump’s personal failures, what do you have? 6 bankruptcies. How does that make him a great businessman?

            (I apologize for talking down at such an elementary level, but some people apparently don’t understand the concept of analogies)

          • Pck

            I will take it down a level for you too. Some people realise that bankruptcy is sometimes used as a deliberate business strategy.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Oh please. Trump deliberately ran the Taj Mahal into bankruptcy? If you are correct, all it shows is that he is a moron. Although you aren’t correct, and it still shows Trump is a moron.

            How about when Trump destroyed the USFL? Another great business move, right?

          • Azuran

            Not for a freaking country

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Good point.

            When Trump started running, I was like, what’s he going to do? Declare bankruptcy for the country?

            In fact, he did actually at one time propose something like that. He suggested paying the creditors 70 cents on the dollar. Yeah, 5 year t-bills with a -6% interest rate. That’s the way to save the country.

            Fucking dumbass.

          • Azuran

            And even then. Sure, bankruptcy is a good business strategy… FOR TRUMP.
            But tell me, what happened to the hundreds (and probably thousands) of employees who worked in those company?
            They lost their jobs. How good was that for the economy?

          • Pck

            Unlike the thousands of jobs lots with companies relocating to Mexico?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Didn’t address the question, I see.

            Yes, companies relocating to Mexico hurts jobs. But how was Trump declaring bankruptcy good for the economy?

          • Azuran

            You know that many illegal immigrants worked in Trumps company, right? And that he’s buying steel from China for his buildings instead of supporting American industry. How is that helping the economy?

          • Nick Sanders

            Yes. In this case it was a strategy used to avoid paying his debts, which seems to be a habit for Trump.

          • Roadstergal

            Yes, ‘strategy’ does not automatically mean ‘good thing.’ I can plan all sorts of things very cleverly that would be good for me personally, but bad for everyone else.

          • Amy

            Multiple bankruptcies, bills not paid, and how many defunct businesses (steaks, vodka, his “university”) not to mention the lawsuits around the “university.”

            And yes, this is just speculation, but given the extent of both Trump’s bragging and the copious evidence over the last 40 years of his romantic encounters, coupled with the chances of contraception failing, I bet there are a few coerced abortions in there along the way. How does THAT square with the evangelicals?

    • demodocus

      Huckabee is an able bodied white man. A lot of what everyone else is saying is mostly theoretical to him and so can be dismissed

      • Yep. Able bodied straight cis wealthy white Christian male. It’s all an intellectual exercise to him.

        • Maud Pie

          Intellectual is not a word I associate with Huckabee.

          The most ardent Trumpbot I am cursed to know is a white woman, associate degree, anti-intellectual, gullible, and devoted to anything kitschy and vulgar. (Three words for an example: child beauty pageants.) With this unfortunate acquaintance coloring my perception, I am less inclined to think of Trump supporters as a privileged few guarding their advantage than I am to regard them as gullible fools. I honestly don’t believe Trump is acting for anyone’s benefit but his own.

          • corblimeybot

            Trump people in my life are kind of a mix of people like your Trumpbot, and people who ought to be smart enough to know better, but have prepper*/apocalypse/race war fantasies.

            *most of my prepper friends and family are all right, but this type definitely exists, too.

          • I agree with you that the standard Trump supporter is being had and that Trump is looking out for no one but Trump — but I think people like Huckabee and other prominent apologists are in a different category altogether. They’re cynically and hypocritically guarding their privilege on the backs of the rubes.

          • Maud Pie

            You are right that Huckabee and other politicians endorsing Trump are being hypocritical and cynical. That angers me because I believe our political process benefits from having opposing views aired in the public square. But that requires participants that are making good faith efforts to figure out the best ways to go, who are willing to listen to other points of view, and who are at least trying to be fair and consistent and open-minded. I know that this ideal will never be fully met, but the injection of Trump into the process has mercilessly trashed this ideal. His supporters have abandoned all pretext of principled argument and have devolved into naked opportunism. I am not 100% on board with present day mainstream liberal thought, but mainstream conservatives have abdicated any role of reasonable opposition.

    • Azuran

      And what if he sexually abused patients. Doesn’t matter as long as they receive proper medical treatment, right?

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        It’s easy to make the comparison here to good old Dr. Fischbein.

        Yes, Trumpkins are the equivalent of homebirthers.

        • Elizabeth

          Trump reminds me very much of the Fischbein creep.

  • momofone

    An acquaintance of mine posted something on social media essentially saying “Come on, we’ve ALL said this kind of thing, and who would want it held against us?” Bull. Shit. If this is typical conversation for the people you surround yourself with, it might be worth re-evaluating who you surround yourself with.

    • corblimeybot

      It’s a good filter for the scumbags in your life. If they conflate crude talk about sex and bragging about sexual assault, no need to waste any more time on them.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        I would love to see this. I hope this this leads to a more aggressive opposition to this kind of crap. Shunning those that do it is a start, but it is going to take a more aggressive addressing, I think.

        Saw this yesterday. It sums up what needs to be done. It is brilliant. Seriously, I get chills watching it.

        https://youtu.be/QaqpoeVgr8U

        ‘The standard you walk past is the standard you accept’

        Damn that’s good.

        • corblimeybot

          WOW, I love this guy!

        • Who?

          Can I say a lot of Australian boys club style soldiers don’t like it one bit.

          Everyone else thinks it’s awesome. The slogan is the inhouse messaging-printed all over th hiviz jackets-of a leading Australian construction company, which means some advertising type dreamed it up originally.

          Which shows every silver lining has a clowd.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Can I say a lot of Australian boys club style soldiers don’t like it one bit.

            Oh for sure. Hits too damn close to home for some.

          • Who?

            My current boss is ex-army and one of those boys. He is basically housetrained but can’t keep his eyes off my secretary, who is by any standards a beautiful young woman. It bugs the hell out of me when I need to talk to him and he literally cannot take his eyes off her.

            She doesn’t love it either. We’ve got a bit of a double act going where she tries to dumb down what I’m saying to the point he can understand it. Unfortunately he’s desperately thick so that’s pretty impossible.

          • Mishimoo

            One of my high-school friends was kicked out of the army. His crime? Breaking his sergeant’s jaw during an attempted gang rape. This crap in our armed forces really needs to end.

        • Spamamander

          Wow. Just wow.

        • Mishimoo

          I have a lot of respect for him, especially since he looks genuinely furious about it in this video (I’ve heard the audio before, but never watched it)

      • Roadstergal

        This. I use crude language about sex often – when referring to happily consensual sexual activity. Anyone who thinks this has any relation to what Trump said is someone to be backed away from carefully.

        • Sonja Henie

          Some people use crude language more than others. I’m in the first group. But Trump’s comments went far beyond crude.

          • John

            I also was not impressed by Trump’s comments,he strikes me as someone that could start world war three,just saying.

        • corblimeybot

          This Trump situation made me think back on my high school boyfriends and male friends, and how they talked about sex at the brattiest, most immature times of their lives. None of them EVER talked about forcing sexual contact on a woman. That’s not surprising to me, but I guess there are plenty of people who think sex talk is completely interchangeable with assault talk. It’s eye-opening, that’s for sure.

  • Taysha

    I do wonder where #notallmen are hiding right now after Mr. Trump equated his vile comments to “locker room banter”, which basically equates to all men behaving like him.

    I’ll get them started. #notallmen think sexual assault is funny.

    • Pck

      Even if all the latest allegations were true, that would still only make him the same as Bill. Hilary was fine with that.

      • Taysha

        Bill is not running for office.

        Again, #notallmen believe adultery to be a fine pastime.

        • Pck

          But Hiliary was fine with that and attacked his victims. Now she pretends to be outraged.

          • Taysha

            Are you a personal friend?

            Cause I remember her face during interviews and shiiiiiiii boy was she mad.

            I assume you will now criticize Trump’s multiple wives for being ok with him groping women?

          • Who?

            None of this can be nice for Melania.

          • Taysha

            I have so much sympathy for the poor woman. I’m pretty sure she knew what she was getting with Trump, but I doubt she expect THIS

          • corblimeybot

            There’s not really any evidence that she “attacked his victims”. (I read a good take-down of that claim recently, but now I can’t find it, sigh.) She said some unfortunate shirty things about Monica Lewinsky, but she’d hardly be the first human being who was cheated on who lashed out at the other woman.

          • Ceridwen
      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        1) No, it wouldn’t. For starters, Bill Clinton has never been accused of nor been caught admitting that he feels entitled to do what he wants with women. If you think this is merely about sexual harassment, it’s not. It’s about entitlement. Not the same at all.

        2) In what respect was Hilary “fine with that.”? All indications were that Bill was in the White Shit House for pretty much the whole time after the Lewinsky thing came to be verified. Yes, before it was verified, she defended him, but once it came out verified, she was quiet in public but apparently kicked the figurative shit out of him. As he deserved.

        They stayed married. I don’t judge people’s marriages, and can’t tell them otherwise, if that is what they decide together.

      • Azuran

        Hardly. Bill and Hilary aren’t the one who did a stint press conference 1 hour before the last debate with women accusing Trump of sexual assault.
        They are also not publicly mocking those women and accusing those women of being fake and liars at rallies.

        While I have no love for Hillary and think she is a horrible choice. Trump is just THAT much more horrible in every single way, it’s not even comparable.

      • Who?

        You do get that Bill and HIlary are two different people.

        If she’d divorced him would you be smearing her for ‘abandoning her marriage when it got a bit tough’?

        If you don’t like her, that’s fine, but let’s at least be adult about it.

        • Pck

          No, I’m smearing her for attacking the victims and now she is pretending to be the saviour of all things holy.
          She is a sociopath who will say and do anything to get elected.

          • Who?

            When did she attack the victims, and when did she pretend to be the saviour of anything?

            I get you don’t like her, but being a sociopath who will say anything to get elected still makes her the less distasteful of the two major offerings.

          • Pck

            Seriously, you weren’t aware that she attacked the victims?

          • Who?

            Show me where she did.

            I’m Australian, lived in the UK while all this was happening, I’m not aware of it. No doubt there are all kind of links to mainstream news where she did, if she did, and you could easily point me to a couple of those?

          • Spamamander

            If Bill had consensual sex with women, they weren’t “victims”. Whatever happened adultery-wise is between he and Hillary. Is she supposed to play nice with women who slept with her husband? It takes two.

          • Pck

            Consensual thick lip and ripped clothes. I don’t think so.

          • Nick Sanders

            Well, I’ve heard several people, all Trump supporters, claim this, but not one of them has ever bothered to actually show when it happened.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            She is a sociopath who will say and do anything to get elected.

            Damn those politicians who let their positions reflect the will of the people!

            The irony of course is that Trump is a sociopath who does say everything, even contradicting himself in the same sentence. He has flipped on pretty much every major issue since he ran for President. He formerly described himself as a democrat, pro-choice, and supported national health care. He supported the Iraq war and the invasion of Libya. He thought Bill Clinton was treated unfairly in getting impeached, and that his biggest criticism of Clinton was that Monica Lewinsky was too ugly to be hit upon.

            The only position he hasn’t changed since running for president is that Monical Lewinsky is to ugly to hit on.

      • Nick Sanders

        Remind me when Bill barged in on naked 15 year olds, called his daughter a “piece of ass”, was accused of raping a 13 year old, or called someone the n-word.

        • Pck

          Not that we know of but he has been accused of rape

          • Nick Sanders

            So, not the same then.

          • Pck

            Not that we have tape of so far

          • Roadstergal

            We don’t have tape of you doing any of those things so far, either.

          • Pck

            Or you.

          • Nick Sanders

            Then why did you even try to compare?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Meanwhile, Trump’s rape trial starts in December.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      Bofa’s Law: If your defense of a group consists of “Not all of them are bad” then that group has a serious problem.

      And while I think we, as a society, do have have serious problem, it’s not an issue of “not all men.” In fact, the reason you aren’t hearing that is because what is being said is, “No, NO ONE decent behaves like that.”

      You are far more likely to hear “I’ve never heard that kind of talk” than any “not everyone does it.”

      Big difference.

      However, there are still problems. Here’s something I wrote yesterday in another place

      ust as Obama coming around and pushing on gay marriage has led to a complete reversal of the attitude in the country toward not only gay marriage but toward homosexuals themselves, in that nowadays, being anti-gay is now generally considered bigotry, I wonder and am hoping if perhaps this issue with Trump is going to have a dramatic effect on the way our culture on the whole considers the issue of sexual aggression?
      It’s great that so many are speaking out against it, but it’s still, to too large of an extent, considered a “women’s issue.” Naturally, women are disturbed by it, but maybe this is the straw that lights the fire under MEN as well to step up and say, enough is enough!
      No, this is NOT how men are to act, either in a locker room or elsewhere, and you assholes who think this behavior is acceptable, just boys being boys, or (worse) funny need to crawl back in your basements and molest yourselves. We, and by that I mean men and women, aren’t putting up with your shit any more. We’re done rolling our eyes at it. We will have nothing more to do with it.
      I can only hope that is something good that can come out of this.
      And then Trump can take credit for it.

      • Taysha

        Merely a sarcastic take on them denying women’s experiences. But not one is taking a stand against what Mr. Trump said.

        You’d think on an equal exchange they’d be just as irate to be painted as lewd and vile by Mr. Trump as willing to take offense when women relate their trouble with some men.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          But not one is taking a stand against what Mr. Trump said.

          Not one who?

          There are many, many who have completely repudiated everything he said, in far stronger terms than “not all men do this.”

          The counter is “No one does this but assholes.”

          • Taysha

            You are indeed right.

            To specifiy, I do not believe many of the people who traditionally pull the “not all men” terms have done so, at least not to my notice.

          • J.B.

            I think that those are the folks who are justifying his actions, saying the tape should have been private, others are bad too, etc, etc.

          • J.B.

            And now I read Pck’s comments below…

      • J.B.

        I hope that is the case. Just as filming acts of police brutality has brought home to whites what happens routinely to people of color I hope that this incident will bring home to men what happens routinely to women.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          Good analogy.

        • Roadstergal

          I have been posting stories to my FB a lot recently about rapists being given light sentences. Some of the men on my FB are getting really upset and angry, but all I can think is – this has been going on the whole time, and at least people are speaking up now. At least it’s going to trial at all, once in a while!

      • Roadstergal

        Rush Limbaugh doubled down on ‘assault is manly.’ He thinks consent is a dirty word:
        http://wonkette.com/607508/rush-limbaugh-hates-how-liberals-always-focus-on-rape-aspect-of-rape

        And while he’s ‘just a shock jock,’ he has been a consistent part of American Republicanism since – at least – I first became aware of him in high school. And that was a long time ago, for me. :p

        (Sorry for the roundabout link, but Wonkette has both an abridged transcript and a link to the original show.)

  • Potkettleblack

    What’s Hiliary’s diagnosis?

    • Taysha

      Criticism does not require comparison.

      But I’ll humor you. Her diagnosis is, regretfully, being female.

      • Pck

        Deceit isn’t gender specific.

        • Taysha

          We agree. Just look at the amount of lies being spewed by Mr. Trump.

          • Pck

            Wikileaks is sure exposing the utter disdain Hiliary feels for her fellow Americans.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Well, I know Trumpkins are trying to manufacture some outrage, but, sheesh.

            The big deal now is that one of the person that works for Clinton had the audacity to criticize Rupert Murdoch’s religion! Oh my! Because we all know that Rupert Murdoch is a fine, upstanding pious person, right?

            And then they get a bunch of Trump supporters to put out a press release and claim it is from “religious leaders.” There are a couple of baptist preachers on the list, who have been hardcore Trumpeters from the beginning. Of the group, there are maybe a handful (2 – 3) who are actually Catholic, and none of them are Catholic “leaders” in any respect, neither from the clergy or among the laity.

            It’s just another lameass attempt to manufacture some faux outrage. No one is buying it. There is no “there” there.

          • Pck

            Brainwashed much?

          • Taysha

            Is that your argument? Brainwashed by who? to what end? in what respect?

            Cause Bofa has been spot on so far.

          • corblimeybot

            Like children? My kid relies on the CHIP program that she helped create. (Actually let me amend that. The CHIP program saved my daughter’s life this summer.) THX HILLARY!

          • J.B.

            So is releasing emails and picking them apart ok while releasing the videotape of what Trump said not ok? What about his actions both before and after that videotape?

          • Pck

            Treat the tape and the emails with the same scrutiny.

          • J.B.

            “And his actions both before and after the videotape?”

            The emails are business as usual. To refer to John Oliver, troubling, but not the level of depravity Trump aspires to.

          • StephanieJR

            I love John Oliver. He’s the only reason I, as a Scot, have any idea what’s going on over there.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            I did.

            Let’s see, in the emails, one of Clinton’s workers criticized the religion of Rupert Murdoch.

            in the Trump tapes, he bragged about sexually assaulting women.

            Yeah, I’m not seeing the equivalence there…

          • corblimeybot

            Also let’s talk about disdain for fellow Americans.

            Trump is a misogynist, abliest, white supremacist, semi-pedophillic anti-semite. On top of all the obvious stuff, we now know that he called Marlee Matlin a “retard”, that he leched after 12-year-old Paris Hilton, and that he has told multiple children he’d be dating them one day.

            How many fellow Americans do you think that variety of dangerous disdain covers? Everyone who’s not a white, able-bodied guy? So, most Americans?

          • J.B.

            Also, every white ablebodied guy who has done anything that Trump would consider to make him a “loser”. Not rich, treating women like human beings? Clearly you are worthy of scorn too!

          • Pck

            She is doing a pretty good job matching him for ‘isms’. Basket of irredeemable deplorables and all.

          • Who?

            ‘Deplorables’ wasn’t a good look. But that was once, months ago.

            Only yesterday we had Mr T saying the idea he would have molested one of his accusers was ridiculous, given what she looked like. Which is surely an admission that if he had done that to someone else it would have been understandable and fine.

            And telling the ‘second amendment people’ they might have a solution to the Hilary problem.

            You don’t like her, and that’s okay. But trying to make him look like a whole and decent human, by any measure, isn’t going to fly.

          • Pck

            If she wins it will only be because she is deemed less disgusting than him.

          • Who?

            It’s rotten, I agree. But that’s what Americans voted for, and this is what democracy and the free market have served up.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Bah. Clinton is no worse than any politician in the last 50 years. She has good, she has bad, she has done things to help her get to the position of power. You have to to get the point where you have enough support to be president. Put her up against a normal candidate, it would be a race.

            What Trump provides, however, is a new low. He is one of the worst candidates ever put forward.

            There is the rotten nature of politics and then there is Trump.

          • Who?

            There was Brexit. I watched it unfold and fear the same wildly unexpected and unimaginable thing will happen in your country-people will vote against their own interest because they believe a pack of transparent lies told by people who have no morals, no plan and no shame.

          • Pck

            The will of the people?

          • Nick Sanders

            Not really, given the number of people who came out afterwards and said they only voted “yes” as a protest and never expected it to pass.

          • Pck

            So let’s see what happens on 9 November.

          • Nick Sanders

            Gladly; but that’s no reason to let bullshit go unchallenged until then.

          • Who?

            It was. And that’s fine.

            But they believed it would make it possible to stop immigration to England/UK, while still maintaining the economic ties with Europe that England/UK relies on. That won’t happen, and those very people will be the ones who suffer most for it. They also believed that all the money going into the EU would automatically go into the NHS, until, days after the vote, one of the Brexit leaders announced that it wouldn’t.

            My english friends are sorting their escape plans, new passports etc as we speak, and making sure their adult kids have the same capacity.

            Despite the platitudes, ‘the people’ aren’t always right, particularly when they are promised easy solutions to complex problems.

          • Sean Jungian

            Full confession, I’ve been waiting for a Hilary presidency for 20 years. I’ve always felt that Bill ran only because Hilary couldn’t win then. Look how hard it is even now for a woman to be taken seriously or to be viewed with respect?

            There’s a lot of “they’re both bad!” but I really don’t think that is the case. Hilary is about the same as any other politician but she knows her shit and cares about her legacy. I believe that more often than not she does the right thing. There are over 315 million people in this country, and I think when all is said and done she will try to benefit as many citizens as she can.

            I also can’t see why so many feel the President is so powerful – our entire democracy is based on 3 divisions of power for a reason. If she doesn’t have the Legislature on her side, then it doesn’t really matter what she wants. Ted Cruz et al have shown a wonderful gift for doing nothing at all.

          • demodocus

            i always felt she’d have made a better one than him

          • demodocus

            And BC tends to rank average by historians

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Full confession, I’ve been waiting for a Hilary presidency for 20 years.

            It’s interesting, there’s an old episode of Friends where Monica and Chandler are having dinner with Chandler’s boss, and his boss says, “In summary, I believe that we all should support President Clinton. And her husband Bill.”

            This was mid-90s, and even then, it was recognized that she had the where-with-all to be president, and many accused her of actually being the one in charge.

            Of course, that’s why the GOP went nutso, because they knew it, too, that she was the one who had the shot to be the first woman president, and so they spent 20 years doing everything they could to prevent it. I always say, it is a testament to Hillary Clinton that she not only survived that, but that she is going to succeed. She is remarkable.

            In the meantime, look at Trump. A little heat and he completely melts down. He melted like a gummy in the cookie oven. Meanwhile, Clinton has faced the torches of flamethrowers, and she’s still thriving.

          • Sean Jungian

            “hey knew… that she was the one who had the shot to be the first woman president, and so they spent 20 years doing everything they could to prevent it.”

            Absolutely. Rolling Stone just had a recent article about the 20+ year battle against HRC. They’ve been terrified of this sea change for years and did everything they could to demonize her, to tear her down, to make her quit – and here she is. Nothing but respect for her.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            I don’t know if you heard Obama’s comments in Ohio yesterday, but he hit upon something I have been pointing out for months. That is, the GOP has no leadership.

            And the reason they don’t have any leadership is because they have lived on a strategy of obstruction. It’s all been about stopping Obama and stopping Hillary.

            Look at the ads for republicans running for congress. Their selling points are things like, “He stood up to Obamacare!” Really? That’s your big achievement? You tried and FAILED to prevent Obamacare? You know what? There are a lot of things that I have been unsuccessful at doing in my life, too. But I don’t consider them to be indications of how good I am.

            The Indiana Senate race.
            Evan Bayh: I pushed for legislation to save auto manufacturing jobs in Indiana. Todd Young wanted to let the companies fail.
            Todd Young: He voted for Obamacare! I opposed it!

            One guy sounds like someone who gets things done. The other is a guy fought on the losing side. Who is the leader?

            As far as I know, Hillary Clinton has only lost one election in her life, and that was the 08 primary. Why did she lose? Because Obama sold himself. He campaigned on what he could do.

            The GOP however, put all their eggs in the Benghazi basket. And there was nothing there. They tried to salvage the emails problem. The FBI brushed them off. So when your whole strategy is based on “she is going to be arrested” and she isn’t arrested, what is left?

            Donald Trump.

          • Roadstergal

            IMO, not just because Obama sold himself, but because he was organized. Much was made derisively of his ‘community organizer’ background, but that is really critical when you’re trying to get things done. IMO, it was one of the biggest differences between Obama and Sanders, and now it’s one of the (many) big differences between Hillz and Trump.

            It goes back to your comment about leadership. Leadership isn’t just saying “Do this.” Leadership is listening to people, learning, taking input, and making decisions based on that. It’s about communication and building consensus. It’s an active, ongoing, back-and-forth process.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            ‘Deplorables’ wasn’t a good look.

            Of course, it wasn’t wrong. Listen to the supporters he has left. What they are saying IS deplorable!

            There is a guy on Int Skeptics who dismissed Trump calling Marlee Matlin “retarded” because, you know, she’s deaf, so it’s not like she could hear him.

            Deplorable is the description, yes.

          • Roadstergal
          • Who?

            It’s not a respectful way for politicians to talk about voters though. Personally, I find those people deplorable, but their vote is as good as yours, and for that alone, from her perspective, she should treat them with respect.

            It’s interesting that’s the one thing the Hilary Haters always come out with. She hasn’t given them much that’s material to hang their hats on.

          • Pck

            Not anything ireported n the unbiased media anyway. We all know how objective and fair the coverage has been.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            The media and the FBI are all in on the conspiracy.

          • Pck

            Hiliary did not lie to Congress about classified emails. Her servers were not bleached after she was subpoenaed. Oh wait actually…

          • Who?

            So show us what you’re relying on. Presumably it is public material? Post some links.

            All this dark hinting is wearing a little thin.

          • Pck

            What has the Washington Post or New York Times reported on the Wikileaks emails this week?

          • Roadstergal

            Wikileaks runs on Dark Hinting, these days.

          • Pck

            Never let the facts spoil a good story?

          • Roadstergal

            Do you have any facts?

          • Pck

            Thousands of emails disappeared after being subpoenaed?

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            Sorry, saying things like “String her up” at rallies, and punching protesters IS deplorable and so is intimidating and running off reporters. Calling a politician the B word the C word and a bunch of other curse words at a political rally because you don’t like her politics and she happens to be female IS deplorable.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Btwo, his supporters at rallies are now chanting “lock her up” – about the women accusing him of assault.

            Deplorable? Yep

          • momofone

            You know, when my son needs correction, we don’t let him say, “Well, this is what the OTHER kid did!” He’s responsible for his behavior regardless of what the other person did.

          • Nick Sanders

            The only thing wrong with her “basket of deplorables” claim was that she underestimated the percentage of the deplorables.

          • Pck

            At least you are honest.

          • Nick Sanders
          • corblimeybot

            Just saw this. Christ, you’re stupid. I guess this is your implicit acknowledgement that you don’t think white supremacists, misogynists, homophobes, people who mock the disabled, and pedophiles are deplorable?

          • Taysha

            I would like to hear your comments on Trump’s supporter’s idea that they should repeal women’s right to vote.

            If we’re speaking about disdain…

        • Roadstergal

          Politifact consistently rates her as one of the most honest of politicians at that level, despite how long she’s been in the public eye.

          • Pck

            Wow.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Yeah, it’s interesting what you learn when you get outside the echo chamber.

            Meanwhile, Trump is by far the leader in being the most dishonest.

            He almost can’t talk without saying something that is complete bullshit. He just makes it up.

          • Who?

            I’m really uncomfortable with criticising politicians who change their mind over the years on issues. But this guy seems just to say what he wants the crowd in front of him to hear.

          • Pck

            Almost like her explanation about the lost emails.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            So the FBI looked into it, and, meh.

          • Pck

            Yeah right.

          • Who?

            So now the FBI are corrupt/incompetent/in league with the Clintons?

            And are liars, all thousands of them, while Trump alone speaks the truth?

            I have a really nice bridge I’d like to sell you-I’ll send along the bank account details, you’ll definitely want it once you’ve seen the photos.

            But before I do, post those articles where Hilary attacks Bill’s victims, will you?

          • Pck

            I think you’re big enough to do that research on your own. It really isn’t hidden or obscure at all and anyone who has been following these developments is quite aware of them.

          • Roadstergal

            “There’s so much data, but I won’t give it to you.” If it’s so important and so convincing, you should be trumpeting it from the rooftops.

          • Sean Jungian

            “I think you’re big enough to do that research on your own. “

            Translation: all my news comes from Breitbart, Fox, and the Daily Stormer.

          • Pck

            Unlike the completely unbiased CNN. NYT and Washington Post of course.

          • Sean Jungian

            You certainly are stellar at equivocating. News flash, honey: “these other things are just as bad as my thing” is not a defense.

          • Pck

            Thanks honey.

          • Who?

            And there, my friend, is your answer.

          • Who?

            Well I’m not-I’m not American, and am only interested now because you seem to be on the point of putting a pervert who doesn’t pay tax but wants to make the army larger in as president.

            Put them up or you’re just another person darkly hinting at things that aren’t real.

          • Pck

            Sigh, ‘Lewinsky is loon, these are bunch of bimbos, what happens when you drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer park’? Google any of them. Why don’t you start with the 4 victims presented by Trump before the debate and work from there.

          • Empliau

            The hundred dollar bill remark was James Carville. The narcissistic loony toon remark was made privately to a woman Hillary considered a friend. I suppose you’ve never vented when under stress?

          • Pck

            Didn’t Trump make his lewd comments in private?

          • Sean Jungian

            Aw, nice try but no sale: he was mic’d up and recording for a television appearance. The only way it would be MORE public would be if it had been broadcast on the show at the time.

          • demodocus

            Which he did on the Stern show

          • Empliau

            On camera, while promoting his tv show. Yup, total expectation of privacy there. Seriously, you think they can videotape him with an invisible camera?

          • Pck

            My mistake, I thought he was on a bus alone with bushy.

          • Nick Sanders

            Alone with Bush, and a cameraman with a running camera.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY8FwWwIVyQ

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Interesting. Where do you get news?

            And you claim the mainstream media is biased, yet your news source fails to inform you about the details of where he got caught?

          • Empliau

            And by the way, insulting someone isn’t a crime. Sexual assault is.

          • Pck

            Like Billy’s rape?

          • Empliau

            I never get tired of you guys. Juanita Brodderick comes forward twenty years after the alleged rape – she’s totally telling the truth. Ivana Trump gives a deposition that her husband raped her, but naah, no problem. Six women come forward to say that Trump behaved exactly as he said that he did to “Bushy”, and you are sure that it’s some kind of conspiracy. Is your cognitive dissonance fun?

          • Azuran

            At some point, nobody has 0 fault. Everyone, at some point or another, has insulted someone else (publicly or otherwise) But there is a very big difference between badmouthing a woman who slept with your husband when talking to a friend, and boasting about sexually abusing women.

          • Nick Sanders

            In front of a camera for a TV show can hardly be considered private. And they weren’t just “lewd”, they glorified sexual assault.

          • Roadstergal

            That’s the only thing you see wrong with them – that they were lewd?

          • Taysha

            No, he made them in front of a camera.

          • Sean Jungian

            Yeah, Googled your big “gotchas” and the results were:

            “Lewinsky is a [narcissistic] loon” – HRC in a private remark to a personal friend.

            “these are a bunch of bimbos” – no results for HRC

            “What happens when you drag a $100…” – James Carville.

            Wow, so damning. That all ya got, Chief?

          • Pck

            Are you calling the 4 woman victims presented by Trump before the debate liars?

          • Sean Jungian

            Nope. I’m saying what the Google results show. You clearly said “Sigh, ‘Lewinsky is loon, these are bunch of bimbos, what happens when you drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer park’? Google any of them.”. I did. This is what came up.

          • Pck

            And then, what does it say after that?

          • Sean Jungian

            Link to the quote, you’ve already said everything I need to know can be Googled and given me crappy-ass data. I have no reason to believe anything further from you will be any better, so I don’t see why I should waste my time chasing down some nebulous, vaguely-defined “gotcha”. Put up or shut up.

          • Pck

            I did and you chose ignore it – put up or shut up.

          • Sean Jungian

            What are you, 12? You made the claim, it’s on you to prove it. It’s not on me to jump through whatever idiotic hoops you think are necessary. Admit it, you don’t have any sources and are just emulating your tangerine hero by talking out your ass hoping that repetition will make it true. Bye, Felicia!

          • Pck

            Don’t be a petulant tool. Did any of the 4 women at the Trump press conference before the debate say they were threatened by Hiliary?

          • Sean Jungian

            Bless your heart, it’s a Gish Gallop. I don’t know what they said, why don’t you write down a quote and cite your source?

          • Pck

            I am not playing ‘cite your source ‘with you or haven’t you noticed . Are you going to pretend there was no such press conference or does it only exist if it can be cited at will?

          • Sean Jungian

            I can only conclude that you cannot back up your claims with evidence, then. Too bad, you might have directed me somewhere that caused me to reconsider the Drumpf but you would rather play Dark Oracle of Vaguely Impotent Foreboding. You have fun with that.

          • Who?

            You can’t win that one, you’re just pushing the lies you choose to believe so you can vote for Trump.

            Vote for whoever suits you-but don’t lie to get others to do the same.

          • Azuran

            No he’s not. But Trump sure is calling the women who are accusing him to be lying.

          • Pck

            Well, did any of the Bill’s victims say they were intimidated by Hiliary?

          • Azuran

            They did say that. And notice that no one here is actually calling them liars or anything.

            So, basically you are accusing Hilary of standing by her husband after he was accused of sexual abuse. Tell me, how much support and help is Melania Trump showing the women who claimed they were abused by her husband?

          • Pck

            No, they are saying that Hiliary threatened them.

          • Empliau

            One is. Juanita Brodderick.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Wasn’t Juanita Broaderick (sp?) one fhem? If so, what did she say? Did she say Clinton did something to her?

            Because in her deposition to the court, she adamantly denied that he had ever done anything improper. So if she is saying anything different now, then, yes, she would be lying, in one of those instances.

            If she lied in her deposition, she perjured herself. And, of course, you can’t accept the word of a perjurer, can you? And if she didn’t lie in her deposition, then nothing happened.

            I don’t know if she actually said anything recently, and I can say that the liar is the person who put her on display as if she had something to contribute.

          • Empliau

            Are you calling Ivana Trump and the six women that have come forward recently liars?

          • Pck

            Did I?

          • Empliau

            You referred to Bill Clinton as “rapist Bill”, based on the fact that he has been accused. By that standard, Donald Trump is also a rapist, as he has been accused. I trust your disgust for Trump is equal to your disgust for Bill Clinton.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            As others have noted, the only one attributable to Clinton is the one about Lewinsky. So your complaint is that she said no nice things about (not to) the woman who cheated on her with her husband?

            Really? That’s your outrage?

          • Who?

            How dare you challenge Pck. All his feelings are at stake. He is planning to feel very big and strong when Donald wins, because Donald would never do anything bad to someone like Pck. Mind you if Pck had an attractive daughter/wife/sister Donald might sexually molest her, but hey, boys will be boys, right?

            As a distant observer the constant irritation in this whole process is that Bill isn’t running for President, Hillary is. And the US electoral system is in thrall to the alleged behaviour of a chosen candidate’s spouse.

            Extraordinary.

          • demodocus

            Really, if spouses could control their spouses misbehavior, harems wouldn’t have had eunuchs guarding them

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Yeah, it’s interesting what this comes to. Trumpkins all know more about law and law enforcement than the FBI.

            Oh, trust me, I’m not surprised. This has been the response. The FBI is corrupt. The FBI are stupid.

            It’s a pretty deep hole you have to dig to justify your hatred.

          • Pck

            I don’t think we have heard the end of this yet so I wouldn’t get too smug.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            What, you expect Trump to win and appoint a special prosecutor?

            Comey said that no “reasonable” prosecutor would bring a case against her. With the Trump special prosecutor, all that would happen is that the country’s AGs would quit en masse.

            It’s dead. It’s gone. The horse is long buried. You want to dig it up to beat it some more?

            Nah.

          • Pck

            Immediately after that statement a number of prosecutors disagreed with that assessment.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Begs the question. He said “reasonable” prosecutor.

          • Sean Jungian

            lol from that bastion of Ayn Randian Fandom’s right-wing nuttery, National Review Online? Great source, there, Champ, no wonder you refuse to attribute anything.

            “A number of prosecutors” means 4 former prosecutors, and 1 official in the JD. None of them have all the evidence and facts of the case.

            Here’s the link for anyone that wants to check out my claims: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437591/hillary-clinton-email-scandal-reasonable-prosecutors-would-charge-her

            See how easy that was?

          • Pck

            Good for you champ

          • Roadstergal

            …ah, good old Rudy. He claimed at a recent Trump event that Hillary was absent after 9/11, which cued the digging-up of photos of Hillary at Ground Zero on 9/12 (she was in DC on 9/11) with a mask on, right next to RG.

            And of course, their records on doing things to actually help the first responders post-9/11 have been rather imbalanced towards Clinton.

          • Pck

            Hey Jungian. Can you help me out with a source for the FBI re-opening the investigation? I want to send it to Bofa.

          • demodocus

            Apparently, pck does want to beat the corpse

          • Pçk

            Oh dear don’t you hate when that happens.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          Hey, Pck. How’s spreading Russian propaganda pay? What about the hours and working conditions?

  • Isilzha

    Someone who does what he does in public does MUCH worse in private!

  • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

    I’m not a psychiatrist or a psychologist but if someone were to ask me what I thought Donald Trump was I would say he was a psychopath.

    http://www.sociopathicstyle.com/psychopathic-traits/

    • Pck

      Hiliary ticks quite a few boxes.

  • SydneyGirl

    Dr Amy thank you for this article and for raising awareness of NPD. I’m not sure if I pity Trump, but having suffered a mother with NPD, I pity his wife and family greatly, they will ultimately bear the heaviest burden when it all comes crashing down around him. What is scary is that he has been able to lie, cheat and abuse his way to such a powerful position with thousands of followers and only now are the cracks really starting to show.

    • Lion

      Sadly those with NPD do get themselves into powerful positions easily as people are often caught up in the special sunshine they exude over those who feed their ego.

  • The Computer Ate My Nym

    I don’t care how far down he is in the polls. Don’t get complacent. The only poll that counts happens November 8th. Make sure you participate in it.

    • This. The only way to win is to show up. Everybody. All of us who see him for what he is.

    • Bugsy

      Two left-leaning absentee ballots already submitted for the swing state of Florida from this household. 🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Sean Jungian

      I will be at my polling station with bells on! Cannot WAIT.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      I’ve already voted.

      I put it this way: by voting, you get to be part of the team that destroys Trump and all he stands for.

      I wish I could vote again, just to be more of a part of that.

      • LaMont

        This is the first year I’ve actually contributed to a campaign (bought some “Deal Me In” swag, bought a lowest-level ticket to a Broadway-for-Hillary event). This feels like one of those easy moral choices, and I feel very lucky to have had the cash on hand to be able to put into this cause.

        Also, yesterday I realized that if I ever have kids, they’ll reach their majority ~30 years from now. By then, a woman as president will be a historical reality, as basic and taken-for-granted as anything. It made me very, very happy to think about this. It also made me a little more sympathetic to older people, because I got a sense of how weird it will feel to have lived in such a different world from the current one.

        Let’s Make History!!

        • Elaine

          It makes me really happy to think that gay marriage being legal and a black man (and, in all likelihood, a woman) having been president will be these totally normal things for my kids who are currently 5 and 2.

    • Roadstergal

      My polling station is right across the street from me. It gives me pleasure to do it the ‘old-fashioned way’ and vote in person.

      I know it’s not ‘hip’ now to like Hillary, but I was around in the ’90s – I was watching when she tried to get universal health care passed, when she spoke up for the rights of women and children, when she said gay rights are human rights. I initially supported her in the 2008 primaries, but was ‘converted’ to Obama and happily supported him in both general elections, and was pleased that she was able to put aside their differences and take a position under him – and grow and learn in that position until I think she’s a far, far stronger candidate now.

      Just my two cents. I’m voting for Hillary as much as I am against Trump.

      • corblimeybot

        I was a kid when she was FLOTUS, and the campaign of misogyny against her made a permanent impression on me. I certainly learned how horribly people will treat a woman when they think she’s too “ambitious”. She endured under conditions that would have broken me many times over, and I’ve always respected her for it.

      • demodocus

        yeah, me too. My main reason for not voting for her in ’08 is because i’m not a fan of close family both being president. i was a teen during Bill’s administration.

        • Sonja Henie

          Throughout history, it has been OK for a son to follow his father in running for president. John Adams-John Quincy Adams; George Romney-Mitt Romney; George HW Bush-George Bush and Jeb Bush. It’s been OK for a cousin to follow his cousin: Teddy Roosevelt-Franklin Roosevelt (yes, I know different parties, like the Udall political dynasty of the western US); OK for brothers to follow brothers: JFK-RFK and Ted Kennedy; George W Bush-Jeb Bush. But somehow, it’s not OK for a wife to follow her husband.

          • Roadstergal

            It’s definitely new territory. Father/son lineages have been a Thing in western civilization for millennia, so our brains accept the idea without too much thought for elected leaders. Yet, despite a few famous female leaders in history, the overall idea of a female leader is not one we accept as naturally. Hillary winning the presidency would open up a new ‘route’, as it were.

          • Sonja Henie

            Agreed, though I wonder if it would be considered OK for say a daughter to follow her father, as in Caroline Kennedy. Jerry Brown’s sister has held elective office.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            Caroline ran for a NY Senate seat but lost. She’s the current US Ambassador to Japan. Her cousin Kathleen was Maryland LT Gov. and her Aunt Jean was Ambassador to Ireland in the ’90s

            Kennedy Dynasty in US politics:

            http://www.businessinsider.com/the-kennedy-political-dynasty-family-tree-infographic-2012-1

            Don’t get me wrong, the Kennedy s have done a lot of good while in politics. It just bugs the hell out of me to have people say the Clintons should not be allowed to have a “Dynasty, hrumph!” when the Kennedys are on their 4th generation in US politics. Being married to Kennedys didn’t hurt Arnold Schwarzenegger or Sargent Shriver either…or Andrew Cuomo

          • Sonja Henie

            Thanks for that information.

            Cuomo’s dad was also gov. of NY.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            Yup, especially in the North East it seems that family money and political connections “old friends of the family”, end up in dynastic political families. And sometimes inter-married political families because the kids socialize with the kids of their parents friends. They go to the same private schools and parties and the same Ivy League colleges and sometimes get internships at each others parents offices. It’s true of the press/media also, for instance, Reporter Cokie Roberts nee Boggs was the daughter of 2 members of Congress, Chris Wallace is the son of journalist Mike Wallace. reporter Anderson Cooper’s mom was heiress Gloria Vanderbuilt…

          • demodocus

            Dynasties at every level bug me . i’ve never voted for a bush, daley, taft, or kennedy

          • StephanieJR

            Britain’s had two female prime ministers so far. My family hates them, but only ’cause they’re Tories.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            And let’s not forget that a lot of people don’t have a problem with the 3rd generation Kennedy s going into politics, there are also the Bayhs(Evan and his son) but somehow Hillary is “NEPOTISM!!!!!”

            How about they take a look at things she’s actually accomplished: making adoption and adopting foster kids easier, getting CHIP passed after not being able to get Universal health care passed, trying to get bills passed that would give family members of brain injured vets additional help under FMLA , getting bills passed to help 9/11 first responders, working with the Childrens Defense Fund right out of college, starting the The Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families in 1977

          • demodocus

            Not for me. I haven’t approved since I started to notice these things. Part of the reason why I didn’t vote for George Bush Jr is that his dad had already been president. Don’t care about George Romney, because he wasn’t President (or governor of Massachusetts for that matter).

          • Sonja Henie

            Romney’s dad was governor of Michigan! Point is, there are a lot of political families.

      • Sean Jungian

        I hadn’t read your post before saying something similar below, but in all honestly I have been waiting for a Hilary Presidency for 20 years. Back in the ’90s it certainly seemed to me that the “wrong” Clinton ran (although I believe that was a strategic decision for them, because HRC could not have won, not then).

        I too supported Obama when it became clear HRC wasn’t going to best him, and I don’t regret it for a minute. I think he has been fantastic, as far as he’s been allowed to be by the Legislature. But I’m so ready for Hilary now.

        Hatred for HRC has been ginned up for a long long time. I was shocked at the level of racism that seemed to spring up after Obama’s election, and now the misogyny surrounding a woman president shall commence. I don’t care. We’ll get through it.

        • Roadstergal

          Bill is one of those guys who I’ve liked more as a former president. He was a decent president, but I think he’s learned and grown and become a better person overall since then. He’s gotten in to some very good humanitarian work worldwide, which has helped him atone – in my mind – for his past to a certain extent.

          • Sean Jungian

            I’ll be frank, I think Bill is a pig. I would not doubt he has been a sexual predator albeit probably a slightly more charming one than Drumpf. Nevertheless, I don’t fault his wife for staying with him – if nothing else, they are parents together and we can never know the inside of another couples’ marriage.

            Also: Bill is not running for president. I don’t hold HRC responsible for his actions.

            He was a decent president. I was an adult in the ’90s and while socially we are far more progressive today than we were then, I think he helps start us on the road. It was a economically abundant time, as I recall. We still had a lot of the same troubles – and I disagreed with NAFTA from the get-go – but overall he was all right. By no means was he a disaster.

          • corblimeybot

            Cosigned, this is very close to my opinion on the matter.

      • Dinolindor

        Count me as another who loves to vote in person, especially now with my kids. For most tasks I love being able to go out and about on my own, but not for voting. And for this election, more than any other in my voting life, I am looking forward to casting my vote with my daughter and son by my side.

    • Sonja Henie

      Our ballots arrive in the mail next week.

  • jhr

    Pity? No. It helps to understand what makes Trump who he is, but frankly, he has done incredible damage to our capacity for civil dialogue. (The GOP has been striding in this direction since Gingrich was Speaker, with their twisted reaction to President Obama, they reached a sprint.). Pity? No. Only anxiety and rage for the forces of distortion and destruction that Trump and his party have unleashed on this country.

    • Roadstergal

      So much this.

  • C.

    I think Histrionic Personality Disorder fits him better, personally.

    • Kq

      They aren’t mutually exclusive.

      I would add psychopath and sociopath (to use the colloquiums rather than the full DSM titles). This isn’t idle politics; I’d already reached that opinion years ago. Not long after I got out of the cult/abusive relationship with the psychiatrist-diagnosed narcissist sociopathic psychopath…

  • demodocus

    i don’t know whether he’s narcissistic in the clinical sense or “just” the original one, but he’s certainly a conspiracy thoery loving jerk

  • Angela

    When I read the symptoms of narcissist personality disorder, several family members came to mind!

  • Sean Jungian

    I have no pity for him – his self-hatred and presumed misery couldn’t have happened to a more deserving person.

    • Roadstergal

      I want to reserve my pity for more deserving recipients. I have a bottomless supply of schadenfreude.