Mr. Jones, so nice to meet you.
Allow me to introduce myself, Ima Frawde, IBCEC. What are the letters for? International Board Certified Ejaculation Consultant, of course. I support men who have ejaculation dysfunction at the low introductory price of $200 per hour. I’m here to help you with your erectile dysfunction.
Examine you? No, I’m not going to examine you. I know what’s wrong without examining you; I learned during my training that so called “erectile dysfunction” is always caused by the man who claims he is suffering from it. Different ejaculation consultants may have different opinions about a variety of issues, but on one thing we are all agreed: there is no such thing as “not enough” erectile function.
Just think about it. If erectile dysfunction were real, the population of the world would have died out long ago and we wouldn’t be here. We’re here, so that proves my point!
[pullquote align=”right” color=””]There is no such thing as “not enough” erectile function.[/pullquote]
What is causing your problem? Well, there are a number of possibilities.
1. You are not trying hard enough.
Some men simply don’t care about giving their wives the best sexual experience possible. Let’s face it, sexual intercourse can be a challenge and most husbands are just too lazy to meet the demands of regular activity. When the going gets tough, they give up and give in, opting for vibrators and other sex toys. Sure their wives may seem satisfied with vibrators, but over time those same wives will experience a decrease in IQ. If you really cared about your wife, Mr. Jones, you’d try harder. Lololol, get it? Try harder?
2. You are deformed, but that’s not an excuse.
Sigh, you have a circumcised penis, and we all know who’s to blame for that. Your ignorant parents never realized that circumcision causes erectile dysfunction. Sure you might not have noticed it for the first 65-70 years of life and it might not have started until after you had your first heart attack and began insulin for diabetes, but it is just as much the cause as if you were circumcised yesterday. Too bad for you.
3. Decreased blood flow? Don’t be silly.
You might have heard that erectile dysfunction can be caused by diseases that decrease blood flow to all organs, not just the penis, but it’s not true. That’s just a lie made up by Big Pharma in an effort to sell Viagra. There is no such thing as “not enough blood flow”! Your body is perfectly designed to have an erection and if you only gave it enough time, everything would be fine.
4. So what if your wife is crying because you can’t have intercourse; she’ll just have to wait.
Erectile dysfunction is a matter of supply and demand. If you don’t try to have sex often enough, you’ll never have enough blood flow. You have to keep trying to have sex over and over and over again each day and eventually there will be enough blood flow for erections on demand.
5. You’re doing it wrong.
Positioning is very, very important to prevent erectile dysfunction. If you held your wife the right way, she’d be able to “latch on” to your penis properly and you would then get an erection. So basically this is all your fault.
Oops, time’s up. You can pay with a check, although cash under the table is always appreciated. I’ll be back later in the week for another session. Just remember what I told you: you are not trying hard enough; you are deformed; there is no such thing as decreased blood flow; your wife is just going to have to deal with her disappointment; and, don’t forget, you are doing it wrong.
What? Of course it is your fault! Stop whining that there’s something wrong just so you have an excuse to stop having intercourse. We all know that is what is really going on.
You feel worse now?
No need to thank me; I’m just doing my job as an IBCEC, International Board Certified Ejaculation Consultant.
This piece is satire. It first appeared in January 2013.
I see from below conversations were you deleted comments of people that you will probably not respect my views either but I have no idea what you are talking about or who recommends women that can not breastfeed have there breast amputated because that would be the equivalent to what you suggested but beyond this you do mutilate infant male children so they do not get infections but not females that seems a lot closer to what you’re suggesting than anything having to do with breastfeeding and for those who would like to suggest circumcision is not mutilation then I have to ask what is mutilation if not the unneeded removal of part of the human anatomy when not needed and if you disagree with then then I would suggest you are trying to change the meaning of words not me.
Can we have this page locked already? It’s already broken under the weight of Disqus, and Lawrence is not interested in arguing in good faith, as he has clearly demonstrated.
http://ghost0922.tumblr.com/post/132824537431/diese-arme-eichel-hat-die-jemals-schon-das
Proof the erogenous sensation comes from the tip (ridged band) of the foreskin. A man with phimosis (as I had) who is able to get amazing sensations purely from stretching the tip.
Everything you people think you know, is a lie.
No one has said the foreskin is non-erogenous. However, demonstrating that someone with a foreskin enjoys stimulation of it does not disprove the claim that other parts of the penis are also erogenous.
The glans has been shown to be almost entirely protopathic. It has no significant erogenous value. If that was the case, stroking the eyeball would be pleasurable. Notice when you stroke your inner arm or nipple, it’s pleasant? Fine touch receptors. Now multiply the fine touch density by a few hundred times and you have the ridged band.
Except whenever pressed on those fine touch receptors versus the ones in the foreskin, you say they are only sexually stimulating because of where they connect to in the brain, without giving a reason the same can’t be true of the receptors in the glans. Just go away, it’s clear your claims are whatever is most convenient for you at the time, rather than anything of substance.
Because protopathic nerves sense pressure and pain. Pressure and pain are no erogenous. Jesus.
I still don’t understand how you think pressure isn’t erogenous, let alone tickle.
Pressure isn’t erogenous. Fact.
Adding the word “fact” to a statement doesn’t make it one.
No, but in this case it IS a fact. Pressure-sensing nerves are not erogenous. Pressure is pressure. Fine touch is erogenous.
Yawn.
Pressure can be extremely erogenous. Fine touch can be repulsive. Context is so important.
If it all came down to setting off certain types of nerves, rape would be just as pleasurable as wanted sex and it wouldn’t matter who we slept with. Turns out there is more to it than exciting certain nerves for most of us though.
Holy shitshow, Batman! This is still going on? I can’t even get to the page via SkepOB anymore, it’s completely broken under thanks to the number of comments. Lawrence, grow up and go away already.
http://ghost0922.tumblr.com/post/132824537431/diese-arme-eichel-hat-die-jemals-schon-das
Proof the erogenous sensation comes from the tip.
You are a sexual cripple. This is a fact. As are all circumcised men.
http://www.dw.com/en/for-some-egyptian-women-fgm-is-not-all-bad/a-18714941
“Despite describing her experience as horrible, Mounira said that the cutting did not affect her life afterwards, and that she enjoys a healthy life with her husband.”
By the logic of idiots on this page, this means FGM is perfectly acceptable and victims who say it ruined their sex life are hysterical.
Your logic, laddies. Feelings and social conditioning trump neurology, apparently.
“describing her experience as horrible” That’s an issue right there.
Plenty of kids who were beaten badly grew up to be just fine. Your logic would say that beating kids is just fine then.
How is that my logic?
Views of people on this page and in general on FGM have nothing to do with what you are claiming. Just because you are equating circumcision with FGM to further your agenda, it does not make it true.
In fact, it makes you a rather repulsive western male privileged idiot all of this using of FGM for your crusade against newborn male circumcision in USA.
FGM is mutilation of humans. MGM is mutilation of humans.
Why are you having a problem with reality?
Privileged? I had my sexual pleasure stripped from me for life! ffs You are a moron.
“FGM is mutilation of humans. MGM is mutilation of humans.”
And circumcision is not MGM. Just because you say so does not count. You need to get over yourself. You are not qualified to define what a medical procedure is or isn’t. AAP are qualified to not only define circumcision, but to make policy statements regarding its benefits and risks.
Yes, you are a privileged male idiot every time you reach for FGM as your blanket excuse.
“And circumcision is not MGM. ”
Yes, it is. It is cutting off primary erogenous tissue for no medical reason. That is mutilation and the causing of sexual dysfunction.
By your logic, female circumcision might not be FGM because some people don’t view it as such.
” AAP are qualified to not only define circumcision, but to make policy statements regarding its benefits and risks.”
No, they aren’t. Not one medical student who goes to work for the AAP has been taught about the functions of the foreskin and its erogenous nature and neurology. Not one. The US medical system erases the foreskin from the literature.
“Yes, you are a privileged male idiot every time you reach for FGM as your blanket excuse.”
Explain how I am privileged? I was genitally mutilated as a kid for no valid reason, sexually suppressed for life and I have way less rights than women in the UK.
Please …. explain.
” Not one medical student who goes to work for the AAP has been taught
about the functions of the foreskin and its erogenous nature and
neurology. Not one. The US medical system erases the foreskin from the
literature.”
Ahhh it’s a conspiracy!!! AAP is hiding foreskin from the medical students deliberately!!! Anatomy atlases in USA are all censored by AAP comissars!!!!!
*lol*
It’s a fact. Why don’t you know this? That’s right, because you do no research.
Hahahaha.
Here’s online anatomy atlas curated by Ronald A. Bergman, PhD.,
“Dr. Bergman has taught anatomy for nearly half a century. He holds B.S., M.S., and Ph.D. degrees from the University of Illinois and was a
fellow at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden. He has held
faculty appointments at the Johns Hopkins University Medical School and the American University of Beirut. He joined the University of Iowa
Carver College of Medicine faculty in 1980, and retired from there in
1997. Always the teacher, Dr. Bergman continues to reach new generations of students through Anatomy Atlases”
http://www.anatomyatlases.org/atlasofanatomy/plate36/06externalyorgans.shtml
And where does he talk of the foreskin, it’s functions and its erogenous nature?
You stated that “The US medical system erases the foreskin from the literature.”
It’s right there. In *the US medical system* literature I linked. Medical textbooks also contain it. Feel free to provide examples that collaborate your preposterous claim how foreskin is censored out in most widely accepted medical literature in USA.
Well this is only one old publication and not representative of all american textbooks, for a start. It also doesn’t explain what it’s for and what it’s neurology is. lol They describe it as “excess skin”. No American medical student learns the physiology and neurology of the foreskin. It’s a simple statement of fact.
None of you can provide a link to an American medical textbook that explains the importance of the foreskin functions and it’s neurology.
That’s a challenge, by the way …. I am waiting
“Well this is only one old publication and not representative of all
american textbooks”
Bwahahahaha c’mon Lawrence, admit that your conspiracy theory was busted and – move on. From the source I linked, check out the homepage: http://www.anatomyatlases.org/
re “old publication”: Last revised on March 24, 2015
re:”not representative of all american textbooks”Anatomy Textbooks and Anatomy Atlases”:
Atlas of Human Anatomy
Atlas of Human Anatomy in Cross Section
Illustrated Encyclopedia of Human Anatomic Variation
Atlas of Microscopic Anatomy – A Functional Approach
Anatomy of First Aid – A Case Study Approach
Lessons From a Bone Box
Related Digital Libraries
Medicine
MedicalStudent.com – a digital library of authoritative medical information for all students of medicine
SearchingMed.com – searching medical peer-reviewed information
Virtual Naval Hospital – a digital library of naval medicine and military medicine and humanitarian medicine
Radiology
PediatricRadiology.com – a pediatric radiology and pediatric imaging digital library
RadiologyEbooks.com – a digital library of free educational radiology Ebooks and radiology Apps
RadiologyEducation.com – a digital library of radiology education resources
SearchingRadiology.com – searching radiology peer-reviewed information
Pediatric
GeneralPediatrics.com – the general pediatrician’s view of the Internet
PediatricEducation.org – a pediatric digital library and learning collaboratory intended to serve as a source of continuing pediatric education
SearchingPediatrics.com – searching pediatric peer-reviewed information
Virtual Pediatric Hospital – a digital library of pediatric information
You’ve listed all these but I don’t know why. Where is the link to the functions and neurology of the foreskin? When are you sending it to me?
Sex Med. 2015 Jun;3(2):76-85. doi: 10.1002/sm2.67.
Histological Correlates of Penile Sexual Sensation: Does Circumcision Make a Difference?
Cox G1, Krieger JN2, Morris BJ3.
Author information
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
The question of whether removal of sensory receptors in the prepuce by circumcision affects sensitivity and/or sexual pleasure is often debated.
AIMS:
To examine histological correlates relevant to penile sensitivity and sexual pleasure.
METHODS:
Systematic review of the scientific literature on penile structures that might affect sensitivity and sexual sensation. Articles were included if they contained original data on human male penile histology or anatomy. Individual articles, including reference lists, were evaluated. They were then considered in relation to physiological data from articles retrieved by a previous systematic review.
RESULTS:
We retrieved 41 publications on penile structure. Considered in the light of 12 reporting physiological measurements, our evaluation finds that sexual response is unlikely to involve Meissner’s corpuscles, whose density in the prepuce diminishes at the time of life when male sexual activity is increasing. Free nerve endings also show no correlation with sexual response. Because tactile sensitivity of the glans decreases with sexual arousal, it is unrelated to sexual sensation. Thermal sensitivity seems part of the reward mechanism of intercourse. Vibrational sensitivity is not related to circumcision status. Observations that penile sexual sensation is higher post circumcision are consistent with greater access of genital corpuscles to sexual stimuli after removal of the prepuce. This is based on the distribution of these corpuscles (which are located in the glans) and, in uncircumcised men, the position of the retracted prepuce during intercourse, rather than any change in the number of genital corpuscles. The scientific literature suggests that any sexual effect of circumcised men may depend solely on exposure of the glans and not on the absence of the prepuce.
CONCLUSION:
Based on histological findings and correlates of sexual function, loss of the prepuce by circumcision would appear to have no adverse effect on sexual pleasure. Our evaluation supports overall findings from physiological measurements and survey data.
Will that do?
Ooh, it even says “histological”!
You’ve just given me a piece of circumfetishist propaganda from Brian Morris and his cronies, well known circumfetishists and associates of the gilgal society.
“Thermal sensitivity seems part of the reward mechanism of intercourse.”
This is simply embarrassing. You do realise Brian Morris isn’t taken seriously by the medical community, right? He’s a retired molecular biologist who has for years promoted circumcision and compared it to vaccinations. He gets off on watching boys get mutilated. The man’s seriously mentally ill, and most likely a homosexual paedophile.
Those are some hideous accusations. I suggest you retract them and apologize.
People who have strong arguments generally don’t have to resort to slander in order to make a point.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06646.x/full
This is why studies like this are pointless. For every bogus one you have, I can counter with an objective one.
Neurology trumps all these pointless anecdotal studies.
Evidence that neurology trumps personal anecdotes when it comes to sexual response please. The range of human sexual interest and human sexual response is vast, despite the same basic nerves in the same places. Most people who have had more than one partner are well aware that what works for one may do nothing or even be a turn off for another.
Studies with conflicting conclusions are common in science; it doesn’t mean that one is objective and the other is bogus — it usually just means that the subject is complicated.
http://www.intactwiki.org/wiki/Brian_J._Morris
This is who you’re defending. The man is a creep.
I’m sure you have a less biased source for your claims about him, right?
I’m not *defending* anyone. You challenged other posters to come up with medical/histological/neurological evidence. Voila. Recent, peer-reviewed journal….you don’t have a monopoly on the science of circumcision and sexual response.
That’s physiology.
Where does he discuss the physiology and neurology?
Lawrence have you ever held a real anatomy atlas in your hands at all? Or a medical coursebook?
Yes. Not one of them explained the function and neurology of the foreskin. Why do you think that is?
Because that would be like going into the engineering specifics of a bridge on a map?
So you admit I’m right, but try to get out of it via “humour”
No, it’s called an analogy.
No, it’s called mental gymnastics.
Anatomy and physiology are separate, if closely related, subjects. A text purely about one has no reason to go into the other.
Probably not in an anatomy text, for starters.
Then why link me to it then? Keep up!
No, our logic is that we are sorry for what happened to her, she indeed had a horrible experience, but she was able to go one with her life and we are glad she found a way to go past this and is now happy.
Your logic is that her ‘healthy life’ is a lie, that she is not having
any pleasure, she just thinks that she does but it’s just not true
because NEUROLOGY! and that she should spend the rest of her life trying
to convince the world that there is no happiness ever without this
piece of skin, no matter how they feel about it.
Our logic is that if you had circumcision as a baby and does not remember it, and are happy with it, good for you.
If you remember it, don’t feel it was traumatizing, and are happy about it, good for you.
If it was a horrible experience, but since it’s over now, you have a good like, you don’t really are and you are perfectly happy with it. Good for you.
If you regret your circumcision. Whether it was your choice or not, whether you remember it or not, whether you have long lasting effects or not. Than we are absolutely sorry for you. We are absolutely open to any kind of intelligent discussion on the subject. Most people of this forum have very balanced view on the subject, most are not even pro-circ.
We are just basically anti-Lawrence, because let’s face it, you are an ass with ridiculously over the top views and opinions with absolutely 0 nuance and the argumentation level of a 3 years old putting his finger in his ears and yelling ‘lalalalalalalala’
http://ghost0922.tumblr.com/post/132824537431/diese-arme-eichel-hat-die-jemals-schon-das
My view isn’t over the top, it is factual. What she had done to her isn’t anywhere near what cutting off the foreskin does. Virtually all the erogenous sensation is in the tip of the foreskin, as is shown here. This guy has phimosis but he is stimulating the ridged band at the tip. The glans is worthless in an erogenous sense.
I’d take the three year old, because at least they get bored and go do something else eventually.
I’ve got it! I know how we can really make him go away. We can talk about the one thing he definitely doesn’t know anything about: the original subject of this post. Breasts and breastfeeding. Female genitalia in general! Let’s see if we can have an entire thread without once mentioning the word “penis.” If Lawrie pops in and starts frothing at their mouth again, well just politely step away and continue talking among ourselves. You know…like we’d do with an obstinate child.
I dunno, I liked the pitch for blankets for homeless shelters downthread.
That said – after a few decades of hauling around a pair of double Ds (usually – they got monstrous when I was breastfeeding), I lost my breasts to a combination of cancer and prophylaxis. Last summer, I attempted an abdominal flap reconstruction, which failed. The plastic surgeon pushes for an attempt at an LD flap recon when I see him, but I manage to see him less and less.
I was devastated after the failure, of course, and I wouldn’t wish anything like this on anyone, but as time goes on I find that I am becoming surprisingly comfortable this way. I considered going flat in the first place, but felt it was sort of a radical and confrontational choice. My major regret isn’t the flatness, it’s that I took the most painful imaginable road to get there. I really wish that breast cancer treatment programs were less pushy
about reconstruction, and society in general was more accepting of
varying body types.
I’m sorry you’ve been through that, hope you stay well.
And yes the blanket thing was a great idea, though around here at the moment the very idea of a fleece blanket is unbearable.
I’m glad you brought up the summer heat though! I really need to contact the shelter on what they need most in the summer since we do get in to the hundreds temperature wise and that’s got to be downright miserable for them.
Hope you stay well!
“I really wish that breast cancer treatment programs were less pushy about reconstruction, and society in general was more accepting of varying body types.”
Oh goodness, yes. As so many other people have said in other places, I wish it was more about the person rather than their breasts. So tired of the ‘save the ta-tas’ stuff, what about the person wearing them, dammit!
Ugh, I get really cranky whenever I see a “Save the ta-tas” sticker, because I always think to myself, “What about all the other cancers? You only care about this one because there are breasts involved.”
I hate the “Save the Tatas!” one so much. Especially when you try to explain to someone, and sorry for the generalization but it’s usually a guy, why the slogan is offensive. It’s usually laughed off with “Lol well people are still being saved, right?” Yup. So we can save the boobies for you to grope because that’s what’s important here. Not the woman attached to them.
I wish they had a catchy slogan for astrocytoma and gliomas. Maybe then those cancers would get more funding. Or colon cancer. But butts and poopy places are gross so we won’t talk about those ones!
Stay well!
I really liked that idea too. 🙂 I’m really sorry to hear that the attempts at reconstruction were more trouble than they were worth…but I hope that you have remained cancer free as a result! I agree, society puts way too much emphasis on women having small-but-not-too-small, perky boobs forever.
Oh man watching Game of Thrones it’s like, “wait… I thought big boobs were the thing guys like but there’s no way that’s bigger than a B or a small C or someone’s discovered antigravity on that set.”
I was a C once…then I took a post puberty growth spurt to the boobs.
Society really should be more accepting. I mean, holy crap you survived a deadly disease by getting your boobs and surrounding tissues cut off! That’s pretty hardcore! If you don’t want to go under the knife again after all that or you’re just happy as you are, the flat chest should be one hell of a badge of honor. Not a “oh poor dear, her femininity has been ruined! She must feel so ugly!” Well now she probably does, you asshole. How about we say how healthy she looks now? Or happy? Bleh, society’s obsession with bodies is a major issue to me. It must be magnitudes greater for you.
Plus, I mean, now you can run and do jump rope without worrying about giving yourself a black eye. That’s a win.
Mine were D/DD before I got pregnant, up to G during nursing, only went down to F afterward, and are back up to G at 11 weeks along. 🙁
I actually made friends with my boobs during pregnancy and breastfeeding. Now they’re…well. I’ve toyed with the idea of breast reduction, because I know I’m not having more kids. Anyone here had one, and are you happy/would you recommend it? I want to try losing weight first, and then see how I feel.
I haven’t had it done but know someone in my church congregation that did. Definitely loose the weight first. She didn’t and she wound up being a lot smaller than she wanted and wasn’t terribly happy with it. She also went pretty radical instead of more conservative. But the surgeons in that area at the time weren’t known for reconstructive/cosmetic surgery so they might have been part of the problem. Find a surgeon, male or female doesn’t matter, who loves and knows boobs is what I’ve been told for getting the best results!
Aaaand now I’m scared. o.o How Do you deal with that much boob?!
Bras. And right now a strict no touching policy ’cause they hurt.
Likewise, although I’m an E/F when not pregnant.
I’m currently wearing a 28H nursing bra… So that’s fun.
On the upside, I don’t have stretch marks and gravity has been kind so far.
And the massive boobs draw attention away from the fact I have minimal time for makeup, hair or stylish fashion at the moment!
The women in my family are all built like Dolly Parton or Bernadette from BBT…. Teeny tiny everywhere but the tatas!
Mine were like that. 8 years after number 2, I’m back to a DD on a bigger band size. Wouldn’t mind a bit of the nursing boob back now.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2013/11/circumcision-and-law#sort-comments
“JamesAgain123Nov 14th 2013, 19:02
I made the mistake of electing to be circumcised as a healthy adult, having been born in non-circumcising Denmark and raised in circumcising Alaska. The stigmatization of uncircumcised men can be considerable – at least, that used to be the case in the US. Getting circumcised was–without serious competition–the single most idiotic decision I’ve ever made. I was circumcised successfully–everything went exactly according to plan–and yet I lost almost all the sensation in my penis. The little erogenous feeling I have I owe to a miserable scrap of mucosa on the underside of the distal end, proximal to the glans. I’d mistakenly attributed the sensations I’d enjoyed during masturbation to the glans being stimulated by the foreskin, but in fact it’s the other way around: the glans is mostly useful for its size and shape – it’s an excellent anvil against which to work and over which to roll one’s foreskin.
Now, during sex, I barely feel anything at all until the end. Condoms are a total loser for me – and my difficulties maintaining an erection, much less attaining orgasm (to say nothing of actually *enjoying* the experience) force me to engage in risky sexual practices that I know I really ought to avoid.
People make a lot of assumptions about how the penis works, and they’re wrong. The glans is not the most erogenous part – it feels only deep pressure and pain (to which it *is* very sensitive). The ‘inner lip’ of the tip of the foreskin is just about all men have to get by on. We owe our convictions about male sexual response to intuition, and intuition is not science. In fact, intuition is a great threat to science.
Don’t make the mistake I did, boys.”
Sorry James, according to the anti-male people on this page, you’re just imagining it. You’re imaging it because they “feel” it. Folk theories trump neurology and statements from mutilation victims.
You have been told, by a neurologist, that you are misrepresenting the neurology, and discounted every statement from a circumcised man that disagrees with your preconceived notions, and we’re the ones insisting on folk theories?
“by a neurologist”
A neurologist who hasn’t been educated about the foreskin.
As opposed to a non-scientist who picks and chooses what he believes about the foreskin?
I’m not picking and choosing, I’m very clear about what the foreskin is.
You choose which research to believe based upon your own pre-existing beliefs.
No, I researched it after experiencing the foreskin. Dr Taylor’s research backs up everything I experienced. Of course American medicine is going to downplay the foreskin’s importance when it makes a fortune from circumcision .
“Everything I experienced” and of course every man’s experience would be the same.
Yes, I forgot, some men have magic penises.
Your insistence that sexual response for all men matches your own is just amazing. How can you be so ignorant of basic facts?
Well we’re all neurologically alike. Funnily enough, you see the clitoris as sacred in all women, yet think the foreskin isn’t important in some men ….
Bizarre
Actually, I never said any such thing. However, if recent studies on the clitoris are correct, removal of the whole thing is a hell of a lot more serious an operation than removal of the foreskin. Even removing simply the area generally removed is. It’d be easier to remove a testicle than an ovary too.
“However, if recent studies on the clitoris are correct, removal of the whole thing is a hell of a lot more serious an operation than removal of the foreskin.”
What studies? lol There is zero evidence that more erogenous nerves and more functionality are removed via removal of the clitoris than removal of the foreskin. That is just a lie.
Please try reading what was written. I wrote nothing about more erogenous nerves or more functionality. The clitoris extends far deeper in the female anatomy than the clitoral glans seen relatively easily. Removal of the entire structure would be a far more involved and dangerous operation, just as removal of the ovaries is far more difficult than removal of the testicles (and hence the reason spaying a bitch costs more than neutering a dog).
FGM doesn’t remove the whole clitoris. It removes the glans clitoris …. sometimes.
I never said it did.
Doesn’t matter, since she corrected you about nerves.
No, she didn’t
Really, you’re going to lie this pathetically?
I’m speaking facts. She is a sophist.
She absolutely schooled you on nerve endings, and you’re just gonna try to handwave it all away?
No, she really didn’t. She isn’t aware that fine touch receptors are the erogenous nerves because she isn’t educated about the foreskin, and probably not about genitals in general. The American medical schools neglect to discuss things like this because to admit the truth would be to expose the corruption and fraud .
Or, you’ve been lied to and have an agenda, and don’t want to admit either. Again, why are the fingertips not erogenous, they are loaded with fine touch receptors.
Because they have different neural pathways, ffs. lol But if you lightly stroke the palm of your hand, it’s pleasant. Now imagine many more times that fine touch nerve density but on the penis and with a different neural pathway causing feelings of excitement too. Compare that with stroking your eyeball, which is what stroking the glans feels like, i.e. protopathic–pain and pressure.
I’ve touched both my eyeball and my glans. It’s not even remotely similar. Go bullshit to someone else, somewhere else.
http://www.livescience.com/15380-nipples-genitals-brain-map.html
http://www.urology-textbook.com/penis anatomy
Histology of Glans and Prepuce: consist of keratinized squamous epithelium.
Lawrie won’t be happy with you.
Larry ain’t happy with nobody, especially himself. Wonder where he’ll move the goalposts now.
And? What’s your point? lol
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The URL you entered does not exist, please use the search function below or use the navigation bar.
touching the nipples lighting up the brain the way genitals do ??? what does that prove? eating an ice cream you love will light up pleasure centres in the brain too. Be right back, having an orgasm by eating ice cream. lmao
Failure to understand again Lawrence? What a shock.
Plenty of women (and some men) find the nipples extremely erogenous and can even reach orgasm through nipple stimulation alone. Or they all lie about it, since it doesn’t match your beliefs.
I know promised myself that I was done with this conversation, but I’m getting a distinct Monty Python vibe to his argument style.
https://youtu.be/hnTmBjk-M0c
1 million upvotes.
I know, I’m feeling it too…
Actually, this just came to me, I think it is also apt. I’ll be accused of mocking, I know I will, and in that one thing he will be factually correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1GKM0zuf7U
Oh my gosh. That voice. XD I can’t get over the voice!
But yes it is fitting!
At least he had the decency to let you walk into his room, instead of invading yours.
Yeah, definitely came in like a wrecking ball too. Not that he’s “wrecking” us as he’ll claim but just making a wreck of anatomy. I don’t want to see Lawrie’s Anatomy: Foreskin only, Foreskin all the time edition.
“and discounted every statement from a circumcised man that disagrees with your preconceived notions, and we’re the ones insisting on folk theories?”
Men cut at birth who never knew their intact penis. By your logic, FGM isn’t damaging because most FGM victims aren’t aware of what they’ve lost either.
You think feelings trump hard science. You are a typical liberal.
FGM is not actually all that common at birth. Most women remember being cut, often without anesthetic and with dirty instruments.
I remember being cut, yet you guys all trivialise it. Oh wait, it’s “different” when it’s women.
Most male circumcision is done in the third world without anaesthetic and with dirty instruments.
I’m pretty sure I’m the only one that trivialized your memory of your circumcision. What everyone else has trivialized is that you’ve apparently had decades, yet have refused to do anything with your life but moan about it since then. Grow the hell up already, there’s more to a man’s life than the tip of his penis. You’re acting like a spoiled child that had his favorite toy take away, and can’t see the rest of the playroom because of it.
” there’s more to a man’s life than the tip of his penis.”
And yet apparently there’s not more to a woman’s life than her genitals when it coms to FGM. Funny that.
Name one person who has claimed such here.
That’s what’s implied. Look at the discussions around FGM. OMG it’s BARBARIC”!!!!!!! MISOGYNY!!!!! Yet when it’s male “circumcision”, it’s MAN UP, STOP WHINING, YOU’RE A VIRGIN!!!
PAthetic.
Actually, you’ve been told even by people who oppose circumcision that you’re being a fucking asshole who needs to get over himself. It’s not about the procedure, it’s about your ridiculous and self-centered behavior.
Yes, I’m self-centred for wanting to educate people in order to stop babies being abused.
Yes.
Which is like saying, anti-FGM campaigners are all self-centred for wanting to stop mutilation of females.
Nope. It’s a individual assessment, not in any way generalizable to a population.
You trivialise male circumcision in general and call intactivists propagandists. This is no different from calling anti-FGM activists propagandists. Mutilation is mutilation.
And your lies are lies.
I haven’t told one lie on this page. Not one. You just can’t handle the facts, laddie. The male ego is a fragile thing when it comes to one’s penis. You want to believe you aren’t harmed, but deep down you know you have been.
I don’t give two shits about my own penis being harmed or not. I have so many problems, that it wouldn’t even crack the top 10. Even if it were destroyed by my circumcision, which is wasn’t, I simply have more important things to worry about. That you don’t says a lot about how empty your life is.
Yes, you aren;’t worried. That’s why you’ve just ignored me ……
‘…my ego is a fragile thing…’
fixed it for you.
And I think you really believe the nonsense you spout-so you aren’t lying, so much as wrong, wrong, wrong.
If my ego was fragile, I would deny circumcision damaged me.
No. Nick, like many of us here, has a specific issue with you and your behaviour here. If an anti-FGM campaigner came into a thread on another topic, whined about her own experience, refused to listen to any other viewpoints and was both rude and offensive to regulars on the blog while insisting she cannot hold a job or live as a responsible adult I think she would get little sympathy here too.
Misogynist.
Yes, you are. I’m glad you recognise it.
Uhuh, and all anti-FGM activists are misandrists. Wren logic.
Lawrence logic maybe. You have shown your misogyny quite clearly here.
No, that’s YOUR logic. Your logic is anti-MGM = misogyny. Well then anti-FGM = misandry.
Your misogyny may be related to your personal circumstances, but I don’t claim you are a misogynist because you are anti-circumcision but because of the clearly misogynist views you have presented here. If I claimed you were a misogynist because you are anti-circumcision, then perhaps your bizarre claim would hold, but I do not.
Except you can’t point out any misogyny. You just keep repeating the word
I am not going to cite every instance throughout this thread. You have definitely presented yourself as a misogynist.
Feelz trumps rationality in Wren world
Lawrence, 10 hours ago: “I don’t engage with women. Why bother when i can’t feel sex. Pointless.”
As I said before, clearly companionship and emotional connections are worthless.
What’s that got to do with emotion?
Who said it had anything to do with emotion?
It was an example of your misogyny, you twit.
What misogyny?
Didn’t we have one some time back?
Thing is that’s not what you want. You want to talk about all that to assist in your masturbatory activities.
No, that would be the circumfetishists who get off on mutilation.
You’re mis stating your experience-again. This is a habit of yours.
You’ve chosen and adopted the life of a victim, and you seek pity. That’s your way of making the most of your situation. A different person would be out making the most of their situation by trying to live a life and not blaming everyone else for their misfortune.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of your convoluted history, and the value or otherwise of whatever your message actually is, you have an extremely unattractive personality. Angry and pity-seeking, vain, arrogant and shallow.
And you wonder why you can’t get on with women: or as you would suggest, women don’t appreciate you.
I don’t engage with women. Why bother when i can’t feel sex? Pointless.
Misogyny.
Explain
Well, I’m sure women everywhere are grateful for that. Now if you would kindly stop engaging with us, as well.
By your logic, women should stop whining about rape because there’s more to life than their pussies and consent. Oh wait … that’s “different”.
Actually, as has been said before, plenty of rape victims, despite being devastated by their rape, still have lives outside of it and move on, rather than insisting that it be the only thing that defines them.
Except rape is against the law and forced genital mutilation isn’t. This isn’t about me, it’s about the fact males are abused legally.
LIAR!!
“LIAR!”
So every anti-FGM activist is in it for them?????
See, this is an actual strawman. I never said a word about anyone other than you. And yes, this is all about you, because you’ve decided that you can’t enjoy anything in life without your foreskin, therefore, you have to invade other’s spaces to make them as miserable as you.
It’s not a strawman. I’m using your logic. You are saying I’m self-centred for spreading the truth about circumcision damage, which is no different from saying anti-FGM campaigners are self-centred for doing the same thing. I only ask for you to be a logically consistent psychopath, laddie.
I’m saying you’re self-centered for your incredibly whiny and attention-seeking behavior.
Stating facts is whiny and attention-seeking.
So what does that make feminists, who propagate baseless myths?
Lawrie, are you incapable of arguing your position without immediately ratcheting the discussion up to 11 by mentioning FGM? That’s not what we’re talking about.
Even those of us who are inclined to oppose routine infant circumcision (and there are a surprising number of us on this board, believe it or not) will agree that it is not comparable to FGM. They just aren’t even in the same ballpark.
Do you hear that? *Many of us oppose routine infant circumcision.* *The circ rate is basically 0 in Europe and last time I checked was about 50% and falling in the US.* *The procedure is no longer covered by insurance unless it is being done to treat a medical condition, and it’s falling out of favor.* YOU’VE ALREADY WON. You’re not winning yourself any new converts by mentioning FGM. Surely you know that. So just stop.
This is exactly why I am convinced he’s just wanking over this whole interaction. He’s not going to stop, it’s probably the most anyone has ever engaged with him on the subject of his penis.
You’re right of course. It’s only when I came back to it this morning I realised that fully, you’ve been saying it for days and you nailed it.
Thanks!
I have been openly female in various places online long enough that he really reminds me of the selfish twerps who send messages which basically boil down to: “Oh! You identify as female! I believe I am doing you a favour by demanding you service my fetish by insulting my penis.” Even the ranting about feminism fits the type, as odd as it sounds.
“Even those of us who are inclined to oppose routine infant circumcision (and there are a surprising number of us on this board, believe it or not) will agree that it is not comparable to FGM”
Only because you FEEL it, not because yo uhave any proof. You are a conformist who believes anything the media tells you without using critical thought.
The thing that pleases me about this conversation is that the more time you spend here (nobody on this board is going to buy your book), the less time you’ll spend with people less scientifically inclined who might actually buy your brand.
I felt bad for you initially, but I’ve come to realize you’re a shyster making a better living whining about your dick than a lot of folk doing real work.
My book?
“I’m in a book! You can buy it on Amazon! Mememememeemeeeee!”
My story was published in someone else’s book. That’s not my book. Silly boy.
How is it that you can’t remember her gender after being told twice? It’s in her name, for pity’s sake. I’m starting have questions about your memory.
Boy … girl … it’s so hard to tell with you liberal lefties.
This is true. He won’t do any harm here-except the odd keyboard sprayed with the drink of choice when he writes some new ridiculous remark.
The rest of us work for a living. At least we do some good in the world.
or at least volunteer in useful ways
It’s all contributing to something bigger than ourselves, and that is so important.
It is!
People get helped and you really do come to appreciate what you have. Health, money, shelter, family, nice clothes, the skills you were raised with and had the opportunity to learn in the first place.
The people you help get so much from it too. Someone who cares, even if it’s just for that moment, may be something that hasn’t been in their life in a long, long time. And it’s nice to be cared about.
True that.
BTW just to spread word, a lot of homeless shelters are probably running out of blankets as the season gets colder. The one in my town is completely out.
So if you have a sewing machine and a JoAnn’s (if you’re in the states) nearby or know how to do those no-sew fleece blankets they’d probably be very happy to have some.
Download the JoAnn’s app too for the coupons. I got enough fleece for five two yard blankets and some extra strength thread for $52 and it originally cost $110 without the sales and coupons.
Great advice re the shelters, we are in the other hemisphere so it is hot, hot, hot here.
Good on you for helping out that way.
Thank you!
It’s just been very, very apparent to my husband and I lately how lucky we really are to have what we do. I got a pretty good Christmas bonus so I figured $50 wasn’t going to impact our budget all that much but it could mean everything to someone else. And letting the shelter know if a kid gets particularly attached to a blanket to let the kid have it and then just let me know and I’ll make one to replace it. If the kid doesn’t have a home at least let them have the blanket.
Lucky for us our state has been really good with helping the chronicly homeless so the shelter here stays small and rarely filled to capacity so they can do more to help the people that found themselves temporarily homeless. If they’re willing to be moved around a bit they are bussed up north to Salt Lake City and given a permanent apartment. We permanent if they don’t want to move. They also get counseling for addiction and mental illness and vocational training to help them get to where they want to be in life. If they don’t ever leave, then they don’t lose anything. The apartment is still theirs. But most move on to bigger and better things once they get that leg up. I really like the program they’ve come up with. Charity and service really changes the one serving and the one being served.
Lovely idea, and sounds like it makes a great difference to people in your community.
I never said circumcision without anaesthetic and with dirty instruments was OK for men or boys. That I would definitely argue against. Actually, I’d argue it for boys. Adult men can have the choice.
But if they do make that choice, they are automatically “circumfetishists” whose opinion is to be immediately discarded.
“Men cut at birth who never knew their intact penis.”
No, men circ’ed as adults or adolescents. The men had experienced both masturbation and partnered sex prior to the procedure and the adolescents had experienced at least masturbation.
Those men are just in denial. Or are too invested in their reasons for circ’ing to admit there is a problem. Or are too stupid to realise there is a problem. There is some reason that Lawrence is still right about how all men feel.
“No, men circ’ed as adults or adolescents. The men had experienced both masturbation and partnered sex prior to the procedure and the adolescents had experienced at least masturbation.
”
IF this is the case, they have magic penises. Have you informed Guinness book of records?
I tempted to inform Guinness about you: “Most Misinformed, Willfully Obtuse, YET Persistent Troll in History” award has “Lawrence Newman” written all over it.
Oh, this is nothing compared to a forum I used to go to.
I’d like to give you conformist of the year award, but you’re tied with pretty much everyone I speak to on this page. FGM is worse than MGM because ….. media says so man.
Magic penises? Really?
If you are going to pull out a ‘magic penises’ argument, maybe you should consider the possibility that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your penis? Maybe someone used black magic on you to curse your penis.
Have you considered hiring a white witch to break the curse?
Wingardium leviosa!
Well your logic is some men are happy with their arms being amputated, ergo arms aren’t the be all and end all.
Well, since the feelings I’m talking about aren’t emotional, but actual sensations, and since your science isn’t particularly hard…
Nobody here is saying that men who have problems following circumcision are ‘imagining it’.
You are the one saying that men who are happy with their circumcision are imagining it.
Because the men saying this were cut at birth. If mutilated women cut at birth sad they are happy, you would still say it is sexually suppressive. Feelings don’t trump neurology.
No, I have told you before that I know a number of men circ’ed as ADULTS or adolescents who are very happy with the procedure and their subsequent sex lives. It’s not that they don’t know the difference. But you keep ignoring this.
You need to read the memo-the only anecdata Lawrie finds acceptable is his own, which is unimpeachable.
Just like his misinterpretations of the items he posts are also unimpeachable.
Yes, we should all ignore neurological facts and prioritise circumfetishists’ feelings.
Not at all. We should ignore your interpretation of ‘neurological facts’ and pretty much everything else you say though.
How is this insane troll festival on this post still going on? Seems like these crazy intactavist brigades trawl the net for any mention of the word penis. Do they not get it how they are completely missing the point with all of their comments on this particular blog?
I think the point is onanism, in which we have indulged him quite generously.
At the moment we’re mostly entertaining ourselves, we don’t seem to have reached his limit yet. His attempts to be banned have been unsuccessful.
Lol so true. :)))
Yes, people who are against child abuse are crazy.
Do you think people who oppose rape (an unsolicited penis) are crazy? After all, an unsolicited penis is less damaging so I presume you do.
1) Circumcision is not child abuse.
2) Circumcision is not rape.
3) I don’t think that people who oppose child abuse or rape are crazy.
4) You are the only person in this conversation waving unsolicited penis around. Apparently you are into that sort of thing, not me.
FGM is not child abuse.
FGM is not rape.
yugaya logic
The only reason you don’t see it as child abuse is due to social conditioning. If it was invented today, you’d call it barbaric.
If someone cut a baby’s pinky or small toe off, you’d call it barbaric, yet somehow the foreskin, which is more important for happiness, is fair game.
5) Circumcision is not FGM.
Says so everyone except you and your unsolicited penis comrade crusaders.
“Circumcision is not FGM.”
FGM and MGM are human genital mutilation. MGM removes erogenous tissue. FGM removes erogenous tissue.
FGM was called female circumcision until recently in the West, and continues to be called circumcision in the third world.
You know this deep down, but you are stubborn.
No, circumcision is not MGM and definitely not = FGM.
Because FGM “has no health benefits”. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/
As opposed to : “Evaluation of current evidence indicates that the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks and that the procedure’s benefits justify access to this procedure for families who choose it.”http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/3/585
“No, circumcision is not MGM ”
It’s mutilation , by definition.
“Because FGM “has no health benefits”. http://www.who.int/mediacentre…”
Except they’re wrong. Cutting off tissue prevents cancer in that tissue. Ergo clitoridectomy prevents clitoral cancer. Why are the WHO lying about that? Why have they ignored a study which suggests FGM lowers HIV risk? And why all the red herrings? This isn’t about HIV or anything like that, it’s about unnecessarily cutting off erogenous tissue off baby boys when it’s not allowed to be done on baby girls. It’s a human rights issue. The health benefits thing is a post hoc rationalisation and a red herring.
“As opposed to : “Evaluation of current evidence indicates that the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks and that the procedure’s benefits justify access to this procedure for families who choose it.”http://pediatrics.aappublicati…”
Organisation which makes huge profits from mutilating baby boys promotes mutilating baby boys. Stop press.
All European medical organisations disagree.
It’s interesting how the AAP say benefits outweigh the risks …. after admitting they didn’t know what the risks are.
Enjoy your lack of critical thought and conformism.
Nope. Circumcision is not mutilation. Please cite any and all European medical authorities that define circumcision as mutilation.
It’s mutilation, by definition. Medical authorities call it circumcision because euphemisms don’t offend religious sensibilities, and to admit it’s mutilation would mean would have to be banned. You can’t cut off healthy erogenous tissue for no reason and it not be mutilation. The foreskin has functions. When you alter form, you alter function, causing dysfunction.
FGM was called female circumcision by Western medical authorities until the 1990s. So is it circumcision or is it mutilation? If it’s mutilation, why did they call it circumcision beforehand. And if they called it circumcision and it’s actually mutilation, that proves they get things wrong on this issue.
mu·ti·late (myo͞ot′l-āt′)
tr.v. mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing, mu·ti·lates
1. To injure severely or disfigure, especially by cutting off tissue or body parts. See Synonyms at mangle1.
2. To damage or mar (an object): mutilate a statue.
To deny it’s mutilation is to deny an obvious reality. If you deny MGM is mutilation, you are logically inconsistent is yo usay FGM is mutilation.
“It’s mutilation, by definition.”Your definition.
Your penis, your definition. Any other newborn penis in USA – current AAP definition and recommendations.
No, the definition of what mutilation is in every dictionary.
“Any other newborn penis in USA – current AAP definition and recommendations.”
This displays a complete lack of critical thought. It’s another way of saying, I can’t think and do whatever they tell me. It’s an appeal to authority. Plenty of medical establishments disagree.
The history of circumcision is known–it’s for sexual suppression. The histology of the penis is known–it IS sexually suppressive.
You would rather listen to an establishment which makes a fortune from mutilating kids. Derp.
“a complete lack of critical thought” is when an individual considers themself to be more qualified to make medical definitions than medical authorities.
That’ll be the ONE medical authority that makes a profit from a religious procedure and whose employees aren’t educated in medical school about the erogenous nature and functions of the foreskin.
Meanwhile, every other medical authority in the world disagrees with the AAP.
The implied idiocy of the claim that AAP is a for-profit organisation that would go bankrupt if it did not profit from newborn circumcision is so fitting with the fact that you are presenting that claim here as an argument.
I’m out, you can wank off further all you want.
Because they wouldn’t go bankrupt without circumcision doesn’t change the fact they make millions from the procedure and millions from selling foreskin tissue to big pharma.
Your argument is profit-making AAP are right and every other medical organisation in the world is wrong. It’s an exercise in confirmation bias. You want to believe circumcision is no big deal and even beneficial. Possibly because you’re a guy who was cut at birth or someone who cut a child.
Actually, the original reason(s) for circumcision are not known and it may well have developed independently for different reasons in different cultures.
It was done in Judaism because it denies earthly pleasure. It’s funny how you think the origins of MGM aren’t known but when it comes to FGM it definitely was to sexually suppress. More doubletalk.
Are you also one of those people who believes the really orthodox jews have to have sex through a hole in a sheet?
Why say something completely irrelevant? It’s almost like you don’t have a valid argument.
It’s not completely irrelevant. I’m asking to see how great your misconceptions about Judaism are, specifically in regards to sex.
Judaism is a sex-negative religion. That’s a simple statement of fact. Maimonides was honest enough to admit what circumcision was for.
Judaism is not the only source of male circumcision.
Fgm practitioners flat out say it is done to reduce sexual pleasure and therefore reduce the likelihood of women straying.
“Fgm practitioners flat out say it is done to reduce sexual pleasure and therefore reduce the likelihood of women straying.”
It’s one of the rarest justification for doing it. MGM was adopted to do sexually suppress. This is a historical fact. Just because thye came out with post hoc rationalisations, doesn’t change that.
Citations needed.
According to the children’s ombudsmen of the Nordic countries, male circumcision is a form of genital mutilation and they’re fighting to ban the practice. Representatives from Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, Norway and Greenland all recently met in Norway with doctors and surgeons who agreed on one thing: the fight for the right to keep foreskin.
“In a campaign, which launched in September, they concluded that the procedure is in conflict with the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child, which says, “Children should have the right to express their own views and be protected from traditional rituals which may be harmful to their health.”
In other words, the boys should wait until they’re old enough to decide for themselves. This all began when a 16-year-old Icelandic boy asked if his parents had the right to circumcise him when he was a baby. The matter was brought to the attention of Iceland’s children’s ombudsman, Margaret Maria Sigurðardottir.
“The leading health professionals here in Iceland, who also signed the Nordic statement, believe that circumcision without medical indication, of a person who is unable to provide consent violates fundamental medical-ethical principles,” Margaret told me over the phone. “They have therefore refused to perform such procedures.”
The children’s hospital in Reykjavik completely stopped circumcising boys in 2011.”
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/is-male-circumcision-a-form-of-genital-mutilation
“According to the children’s ombudsmen of the Nordic countries”
Not medical authority and nowhere near equivalent to AAP. Also, please cite the exact position and person you are referring to because each individual country has its own ombudsman(s), and not all of Nordic countries have a separate “children’s ombudsman” position.
“Not medical authority and nowhere near equivalent to AAP.”
You mean the private trade organisation that makes millions from mutilating kids via an ancient religious rite.
Yes, the AAP are clearly knowledgeable guys lol
By your definition, every single surgery out there is mutilation.
I was mutilated with a tonsillectomy, more than one laparoscopy and a C-section. I had better quit working and spend my life angry at the medical establishment. In fact, as I was mutilated in 2 countries, I deserve extra pity.
And my ears are pierced too. That was done when I was 13. My mom signed a consent form. Who can I sue?
I had my ears pierced when I was seven and I pierced two extra holes myself when I was in high school. I’m so glad I wasn’t into tattoos. 🙂
Your parents agreed to mutilate you at 7?!!?
Yes I know, horrible. Until that moment I was perfect. Unfortunately there were no eartactavists around back then to show them the truth.
Funnily enough, there are now people out there arguing that it is mutilation to get a child’s ears pierced. Of course, there are people arguing formula is child abuse and vaccines cause autism.
Lol I just had someone ask me for proof that formula is safer than donor breastmilk bought online.
Ugh. Do you ever wonder why the stupid people never seem to be too stupid to use the internet?
If you needed a tonsillectomy, that’s fine. But circumcision isn’t necessary. It’s like comparing getting rid of a tumour with cutting off a leg for no reason.
Tonsillectomies are far rarer now than they were, and many would say mine was not necessary. Your circumcision was believed to be medically necessary. In either case, your definition did not exclude medical necessity.
Yeah, it wasn’t necessary. And while it wasn’t medical negligence, it didn’t ruin your sex life, did it.
It doesn’t matter if it was believed to be by an individual doctor if it’s a fact that no case of tight foreskin necessitates circumcision.
It was standard medical practice at the time, and in fact it remains an effective treatment option today, even in countries where circumcision is rarer than it is in the UK. You may not like that, but it is true.
It wasn’t standard medical practice at the time. Many many males were given steroid creams or told to be patient. Regardless, it being standard wouldn’t mean it was right. Slavery was standard at one time.
Given your expressed views of women, I’m not sure you’d have a satisfying sex life regardless of the condition of your penis.
What views?
Yes. And? How is that misogynist? Please explain.
You imply the only interaction men and women can meaningfully have is sex.
Really? Deciding the female half the population is not worth engaging with if sex isn’t on the table is not misogynist? Only in the mind of a misogynist.
Is an FGM victim who doesn’t want to engage in personal relationships with men, misandrist?
lol
You aren’t a genital mutilation victim.
Possibly.
We get it. You don’t like circumcision. You’re upset that it was done to you. Some people agree with you; others don’t. I don’t know what your purpose is in continuing on like this. Circumcision doesn’t have to be worse than rape or vulvectomy or FGM to be wrong or harmful or unnecessary. You don’t have to prove that women are the source of all evil or that circumcised men can’t be satisfied with their sexuality in order to get your point across. I think secular society is leaning away from routine circumcision anyway — your hideous views on women and, well, everyone else, are just alienating and undermine your own credibility.
“your hideous views on women and, well, everyone else, are just alienating and undermine your own credibility.”
Explain
The degree to which I am sympathetic and interested in what you have to say is directly related to the content of your posts. So far you’ve shown no interest in or compassion toward anyone who differs from you. Personally, I’m not in favor of routine circumcision, but I find your attitude and statements so repellent that I could not possibly support anything you endorse.
Tonsillectomies do not affect you life. How are you damaged in day to life from it? I’m damaged because I cannot feel sex and have ED. You should still sue though as it wasn’t necessary.
It’s not my interpretation, it’s factual. I know because I HAD a foreskin. Listen to “circumcised at 18”. Oh wait, that guy’s a “troll”.
Lawrie, you do seem to enjoy talking to strangers on the internet about their genitals and masturbatory practices while humiliating yourself repeatedly, so maybe go to a site that specialises in that sort of thing?
I mean, why come here and troll, when I’m sure there are sites with people who would queue up to say the things you seem to like hearing, and would be happy to say exactly what you need exactly when you need it? Wouldn’t that be less effort?
No judgement, if that’s what you need, but isn’t this the most assholish way to go about getting it?
If a circle-jerk with the MGTOW community does not do it for you any more, is this really the best option you could come up with?
Yes, I’m trolling by telling the truth. Everyone who tells the truth is a troll.
Circumfetishists and religious whackos. What about all the men who say it ruiend their sex life?
See, exactly what I said. You want us to take claims of people who had side effect seriously (which we do, the only person we don’t take seriously is you) yet you refuse to accept the claims of people who are saying it was a positive thing in their lives.
“yet you refuse to accept the claims of people who are saying it was a positive thing in their lives.”
Because when you’re knowledgeable about this social phenomenon, you know why this happens. Most FGM victims don’t see FGM as harmful. If you’ve never known any better and have been conditioned to see it as positive, that doesn’t mean your ignorance trumps truth.
That does not hold for those who were circumcised in European countries, particularly for non-religious reasons, who are happy with the result.
So coping mechanism trump neurology.
That makes no sense. More likely they still feel sexual pleasure as claimed.
“more likely”
Where does it come from then?
Most circumcised men claim they still feel sexual pleasure and act as though they do. It’s more likely they are being honest than that they are all lying about this, regardless of the country they live in.
you really have your head all the way up your ass, don’t you.
People have told you that they know people who had sex and masturbatin both before and after circumscision and they say that after is better.
They know better.
Of perhaps YOU are the one who has been conditionned to see yourself as a victim and believe that it is impossible for yourself to have any pleasure without your foreskin.
Therefore, your claims of having no pleasure are just as worthless as anyone’s claim of having pleasure.
Either both claims have value, or neither does.
“People have told you that they know people who had sex and masturbatin both before and after circumscision and they say that after is better. ”
This isn’t possible. You can’t cut off thousands of erogenous nerves and feel more erogenous nerves.
Maybe they prefer the lower level of stimulation? Extremely sensitive breasts do not usually lead to increased pleasure in having them touched. Just ask men whose partners have had that problem in pregnancy or with hormonal fluctuations. And, just to be clear, those changes in sensitivity occur without any change in the neurology. The existence of nerves is not the sole determining factor.
“The existence of nerves is not the sole determining factor.”
Without nerves ,you cannot feel anything.
What part of “sole” confused you?
Well, it does have 4 whole letters and is not specifically either about circumcision or a misogynistic word, so he has no reason to know it.
Again, increasing breast sensitivity in pregnancy or in response to other hormonal changes is not due to changes in the number or type of nerves. Explain that if type of nerve is the sole issue in erogenous stimulation.
And here you are again. Simply discarding the actual experiences of people who don’t agree with you.
If an FGM victim had her hood, clit and labia removed and said it increased my pleasure by 10 times, would you believe it because “feelz > neurology!”?
I would believe it did it for her. Why not? Different people get off on different types of stimulation in different areas.
If she argued it increased it for everyone, I’d be much more sceptical.
The absolute number of nerve is not the only thing that define sexual pleasure. If an FGM victim said that she is having more pleasure than before, I would believe her, because she sure as hell knows what she herself is feeling.
Does not mean that what happened to her is not awfull. But I’m not going to tell her that she is wrong, call her dysfunctionnal and tell her that she should cry herself to sleep every night like you do.
Have you never noticed how different people have different sensitivity to pain? Hell, some people are even sexually aroused by it. Or how some people are ticklish and others aren’t? why do people have different favorite sexual position? A rape victim can totally become unable to have sexual pleasure even if she has no physical trauma and all her precious nerves are intact.
All of this despite the fact that our ‘neurology’ is the same.
So yes, Feels > neurology when it comes to things like sexual pleasure.
again side effects or no side effects what I care about is consent and letting the kid choose rather he wants part of his body permanently altered and please do not act like you do not understand what I’m saying and resort to ad hominem attacks as people like you always do so please stop playing the victim card and acting like males have no problems long enough to answer a question or is that mansplaining.
so then if a girl has her hood or vaginal lips trimmed does that mean it is preferable we do this to children the issue is not who wants what but that they have a right to choose and again going to go out on a limb here and make a guess but I’m guessing you are a feminist so if you had a honest bone in your body then you should be able to understand the issue of consent and how important it is regardless of gender and concede to this not act like a insect hive and mindlessly attack me all at once and then censor me like you did the other guy and that is what you do I have talked with you before and you act in a obnoxious and fascist wa and basically are fascist now please prove me right you crooks.
Wow … so you’re NOT a feminist? Just out of interest, how does your mother feel about you being a STUPID IGNORANT CUNT who thinks she doesn’t deserve the same rights as you?
The issue of consent is only one of the issues, and it is a minor one, you clueless moron.
It’s no surprise that you’re a hypocrite who attacks others and engages in name calling, while simultaneously having a cry about being attacked yourself, before it has even happened.
Boo hoo little baby.
The fact that you compare circumcising an infant to an adult consenting to sex shows what a completely clueless, disgusting maggot you are.
I’m not sure what that individual said but I do know when you are trying to suggest that circumcision is not mutilation because lobbyist were able to convince medical boards that circumcision is not a form of mutilation and also convince them that female hoodectomy is mutilation after they made statements saying the same thing about hoodectomy as they did circumcision and that did happen look it up are manipulating the language because again regardless of what any quack says the definition of mutilation that has always applied is that it is the removal or amputation of a body part for reasons that are not medically necessary and that is what circumcision is and all you have done is trivialize male circumcision even if you have not outright defended the practice so please stop playing games and be honest for once you people are so alike it is vomit inducing.
WRONG on every single point! That must be some kind of record. Well done…
So James had a circumcision, as an adult, for social reasons, and is unhappy with the outcome.
How is that different from someone who finds that after their nosejob they are still boring, despite having been convinced it was the shape of their nose holding them back all along?
Well it’s different because the false analogy you’ve used is comparing one’s personality with neurology.
Exactly the same: the problem, in both cases, is thinking you’ll be a better person when you look different.
I get that you fight your feelings-apart from your rage and self-pity, which you wallow in-but they are real, they do affect how everyone behaves, including you, and they are not opaque.
Now you’ll tell me I’m shaming you. So predictable.
The problem, in cases where women are upset about being raped, is thinking they’ll be better people if they hadn’t been raped.
Who? logic.
If you were circumcised against your will, by force or fear of it, then maybe a rape–circumcision analogy would hold. Were you?
Yes, I was. As are all babies, too. I didn’t provide informed consent. It was like being told i was having a mole removed from my leg, then waking up with my entire leg removed.
You were 14. Were you physically restrained?
Babies also do not consent to diaper changes, the type of feed they receive or basically anything else. I did have to forcefully give my children medication, have forced them into bed and even into a coat. Consent for infants comes from the legal parent or guardian, not the child.
“Were you physically restrained?”
No, I was lied to. I was told a minor therapeutic operation was necessary. My parents were duped too. Neither of us gave consent. It’s like defending a girl going into get a mole removed and comiing out with her clitoris removed.
“Babies also do not consent to diaper changes, the type of feed they receive or basically anything else. I did have to forcefully give my children medication, have forced them into bed and even into a coat.”
You’re comparing assisting babies with personal hygiene and feeding them to help them live, with irreversible sexually suppressive non-medical genital mutilation?
You are an imbecile.
Consent was given to the standard treatment at the time. You may disagree with the treatment and you may have issues stemming from the procedure (though many circumcised men do not have those issues and many uncircumcised men have ED) but neither of those mean consent was not given. It does make sense of your claim that circumcision always leads to sexual problems. As long as you believe that, you can claim a) consent was not properly given and b) your issues have nothing to do with you.
You have mentioned that your circ was due to paraphimosis, which is, I believe, considered a medical emergency. Moreso, I would surmise, if the condition has been hidden/ignored because of embarrassment and hoping it will go away or resolve on it’s own. Because what 14 year old wants to tell his parents that he has a problem with his penis that developed while he was masturbating; the foreskin is stuck behind the glans and I CAN’T GET IT BACK TO WHERE IT BELONGS and it’s starting to change color and hurt?!?
In the case of a medical emergency, the treatment of the emergent issue often has to be quick in order to save the patient or the function of whatever body part is in trouble. Often, there is not the time to have the luxury of thinking it over for a couple of hours/days. That is not to say the pros and cons of the procedure are being glossed over or not even mentioned.
Obviously, you were seen by a doctor for a medical emergency (paraphimosis). Did you even ask if another procedure/treatment was applicable or was another option off the table due to the emergent quality of your case? What did you think should have been done?
The paraphimosis was easily fixed. I came out of the hospital with my foreskin intact. All was well. Circumcision was not necessary. Do you understand now?
Nope. Clear as mud. The only way I could see them wanting to do a circ is that either there was an issue with a tight foreskin that was exacerbated by chronic masturbation, causing it to get stuck on a regular basis, or underlying issue with inflammation causing it to get stuck on a regular basis. If the emergency was dealt with at the hospital and a follow-up consult scheduled with a urologist to deal with the underlying issue, then yes, you apparently left the hospital with your precious foreskin attached. It sounds as if there was an underlying issue with anatomy that was revealed when paraphimosis struck.
Hi again Lawrie
Bye Lawrie
I was looking up a Toast post about Every Comment On Recipe Blogs Ever, and this was linked there. I couldn’t help thinking of this thread, for some reason.
http://the-toast.net/2013/07/02/all-you-can-say-about-pubes-online/
I nearly snorted coffee out through my nose, thanks!
That was BRILLIANT. My husband thought I was having a fit, I was laughing so hard! Totally made my morning.
I know this is old, old, old, but someone has been liking my comments form this post, so I was looking it over again. Thinking maybe it had been revived. Anyway, after reading your link, I also found these two on the same site:
http://the-toast.net/2014/12/17/third-trimester-message-board-posts/
http://the-toast.net/2015/03/09/comment-section-every-article-ever-written-breastfeeding/
He truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
Like herpes’ whiny little brother.
Think we’ll break disqus again?
I’m amazed we haven’t done so already, it’s been shooting errors at me intermittently for the last several days.
Lawrence, I believe what you’ve said about the effect of circumcision on your life and function. I’m no expert on urology or any related field, but maybe your situation is as severe as it is because you had the procedure done in your teens, when your sexual response had already developed to include an intact foreskin and been mapped structurally into the brain in that way. Someone who was circumsized as an infant would develop a sexual response that related to the anatomy he had as he developed and went into puberty, and thus would probably not have the same functional or sensory deficits that you’ve experienced.
I think a lot of what you’ve written has been hideous and needlessly offensive, but I think it comes from a place of pain and anger, and I am truly sorry for that.
Beware of falling for Lawrie’s story.
Certainly he displays some sort of psychopathology, but most of what he says is not plausible.
It is NOT POSSIBLE to have a numb, unresponsive penis as a result of loss of the foreskin – the anatomy doesn’t work that way.
It’s clear that the billions of circumcised men around the world, throughout history, have not had numb, unresponsive penises.
This Lawrence person is remarkably persistent – this tends to wear people down. That doesn’t make his story plausible.
He is clearly obsessed with arguing and “winning” – look at his language. This is entertainment for him – his attitude and persistence cannot be motivated just by pain and anger.
As I’ve shown below, he’s been doing this in different fora for a long time – with posts equally smug and abusive.
Personally, I’ve had enough now. I got tempted into the game, and it only feeds him.
Can you either repost the comment or link to it so those of us not willing or able to slog through might see?
Cliff notes version probably works best:
LN circumcised at 14 to curse paraphimosis. Says this was unneccisarry and caused him to completely lose all pleasurable feeling in his penis.
LN says that the foreskin is THE eroginious tissue of the penis. Not the most sensitive or part of it, ALL of it. Says the glans of the penis doesn’t have the right kind of nerves to produce orgasm. Circumcised men do not have sex, they have psuedosex to empty the prostate.
Says this loss of pleasure has caused depression and PTSD and the inability to work for a living.
Numerous females and Nick (Nick is the only one I can positively confirm as male so correct me if I’m wrong) say that he should try other ways of stimulating orgasm. LN says this is not possible as he has not eroginious tiissue and the mind has no part of the orgasm process.
LN says things about neurology that are not true regarding Histology that the foreskin has “erogenous nerves” that the rest of the body does not. Numerous articles and testimonies of actual research and medical personnel, including a neurologist, say this is inaccurate. Cue screaming of everyone being wrong and he is right and wins.
Pulls out the old chestnut of bring up FGM but only in context of comparing it to circumcision/MGM. Says that MGM is worse than FGM. Also, the vaginal has all eroginious tissue in females and the idea that the clitoris is how most women achieve orgasm is “folklore.” Numerous testimonies to the contrary are ignored and called lies or brainwashing to believe.
Suggestions of how to improve therapy are ignored because therapy is for women because they like to talk and not take action. CBT and other ways to improve therapy are suggested. Says he’s too damaged for any therapy to work.
Also calls rape an “unsolicited penis” seriously. Says circumcision is worse than rape. To a rape victim.
And that men are the second class citizens of the world due to feminist cunts that keep the man down.
The rest of us are bored and therefore post stupid shit back after realizing logic does not work.
Accusations of professional victim are made because he has no interest in improving his lot in life because the only thing that will make him move forward are A) getting his foreskin, “free erogenous nerves” and all back or B) Sueing the doctors but he can’t because this was done in 1993 and statues of limitations and stuff.
Also throws out homophobic insults, calling people “retarded”, ” Downs”, or “mentally ill” when not calling them assorted female aimed slurs or calling Nick a “mangina.”
I think that covers the main bits.
I never actually said he should try other ways of stimulating orgasm (apart from switching his antidepressants), I just pointed out that various areas he’s called non-erogenous or downright unfeeling are actually have considerable sensitivity. I’ve stuck to anatomy and logic, since I’m not a great person to be offering bedroom advice; with the exception of pointing out that I’ve had experiences he dismisses as impossible.
You also missed the part where he said his PTSD is worse than that of veterans, because “They made the decision to go into pointless was to be used as expendable assets.” And that he said circumcision was the worst form of child abuse, and should give a child the right to behead their parents once they grow up.
Ah yeah that little bit at the end about veterans consenting to having limbs blown off therefore their PTSD is not as valid as his.
And this rather disturbing trend of wanting to behead people.
I do believe he’s been more honest in this thread about one thing…
I don’t believe in the existence of the “ex-girlfriend” from Sue’s link for one minute…unless we’re using that word as a euphemism for “professional who no longer wants me as a client”.
Shaming tactics. The mark of a feminist.
What does feminism, AKA “the radical belief that women are people” have to do with any of this?
If that’s what feminism was, the feminist movement in the West would be no more, given that women have way more rights and privileges than men.
Bullshit.
No, it’s true. NAme one right women don’t have that men have.
You first. Name all the rights and privileges that women have that men don’t.
Obviously, we have the right to keep our foreskins!
Only until the doctors figure out how to harvest them and sell them on the black market for cosmetic company gold.
Right to genital integrity.
100% reproductive rights.
Lesser sentences for the same crimes.
Positive discrimination.
Better treatment in divorce courts/child custody cases.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c269/andresaga/LOLz/Tintin-HA_HA_HA_OH_WOW.jpg
nice argument.
Men created 20 forms of birth control and you’re claiming they don’t have reproductive rights. GTFO
Tell me that again when abortion clinics stop getting shut down left and right by state government, and bombed by individuals.
Oh, and when shit like transvaginal ultrasounds are no longer mandatory anywhere.
And when corporations aren’t allowed to deny women healthcare plans that cover BC (which many women need not just for the sexy times).
Abortion isn’t illegal, though. You’re whining because men AND WOMEN are against abortion. It’s not a universal truth that abortion is a right, it’s simply cultural conditioning that makes you think it’s acceptable. Do men have the right to kill their kids? No.
Sorry, I wasn’t aware abortion was illegal in the USA …
Men created 20 forms of birth control that they keep under lock and key. Since anecdotes are apparently the epitome of evidence, I’ll share mine.
Seven years ago, I tried to have a tubal ligation because my husband and I decided that we were done having children. My (male) gynecologist said no, you’re too young, you’ll change your mind about having more children.
Subsequently, we’ve not changed our minds, and we’ve spent thousands more dollars than we should have had to, to prevent any further pregnancies.
So as far as I’m concerned, women having 100% control over our reproductive health care is 100% bovine excrement.
“Men created 20 forms of birth control that they keep under lock and key.”
This was supported by women, too. They have access to 20 forms of birth control now.
“Seven years ago, I tried to have a tubal ligation because my husband and I decided that we were done having children. My (male) gynecologist said no, you’re too young, you’ll change your mind about having more children.”
So one gynecologist made a judgement call and you think that means you dont’ have 100% reproductive rights. If you wanted this so much, you would have wentto a different doctor.
Right to genital integrity? What do you think — the state goes into hospitals and forces circumcisions? They’re done at parental request. Just like any sort of genital procedure a minor girl’s parents might decide to have done would be performed at the parent’s request. There is no forced circumcision in the UK or US. Parents legally make medical decisions for their minor children, male or female. Neither gender has an explicit right to genital integrity or lung integrity or kidney integrity, etc. And frankly, childbirth can damage a woman’s genitals, yet women don’t have a legal right to maintain genital integrity by choosing cesarean sections.
Reproductive rights? Are you f***ing kidding me? Name one man who has been forced to carry a pregnancy against his will. Or one who was denied a tubal ligation or contraception or a life-saving termination by a religious institution.
Lesser sentences? Can’t speak to the UK system, but sentencing is generally influenced by the presence or absence of mitigating factors and the likelihood of recidivism. There is certainly no law that says that women de facto get lighter sentences.
Positive discrimination? a) not a right; and b) a little underwhelming given millennia of oppression and discrimination
Better treatment in divorce/custody? Is that why divorce tends to plunge women and children disproportionately into poverty, and that men as a whole tend to fare much better financially afterward?
I think you mean de jure, not de facto, but otherwise, well said.
Thanks
” Just like any sort of genital procedure a minor girl’s parents might decide to have done would be performed at the parent’s request.”
Wrong. FGM is illegal.
“What do you think — the state goes into hospitals and forces circumcisions? They’re done at parental request.”
Just as FGM is illegal, parents shouldn’t be able to force MGM on boys.
” There is no forced circumcision in the UK or US.”
Yes there is. Babies are forced.
“Parents legally make medical decisions for their minor children, male or female.”
Circumcision is a sexually suppressive religious procedure adopted by the medical community to stop masturbation. There is no medical need to cut off a baby’s foreskin. It is not a medical procedure.
“. Neither gender has an explicit right to genital integrity”
Females do unless there is a medical need. There is no medical need to cut off parts of kids’ genitals.
” And frankly, childbirth can damage a woman’s genitals, yet women don’t have a legal right to maintain genital integrity by choosing cesarean sections.”
Actually, yes, they do.
“Name one man who has been forced to carry a pregnancy against his will.”
How is this men’s fault or society’s fault? Your beef is with mother nature. Have you been circumcised against your will? Yeah…
“Or one who was denied a tubal ligation or contraception or a life-saving termination by a religious institution.”
Well that’s your fault for going to a religious institution for medical help. Go to a proper medical doctor.
“Lesser sentences? Can’t speak to the UK system, but sentencing is generally influenced by the presence or absence of mitigating factors and the likelihood of recidivism. There is certainly no law that says that women de facto get lighter sentences.”
I never said there was a law. Lesser sentences for women is a fact. Not the law, but judged hand out significantly lesser sentences to women just because they’re women.
“Positive discrimination? a) not a right; and b) a little underwhelming given millennia of oppression and discrimination”
It’s a privilege, but it’s an advantage women have. Men don’t have it. Women have never been oppressed as a group. You can drink the kool-aid, but I prefer critical thought. What you call discrimination is simply having different expectations of women and men in pre industrial subsistence economies due to women’s and men’s intrinsically different capabilities. It’s called division of labour.
“Better treatment in divorce/custody? Is that why divorce tends to plunge women and children disproportionately into poverty, and that men as a whole tend to fare much better financially afterward?”
Divorce is a way for women who’ve rarely or never worked to be redistributed wealth from men who worked their asses off for these women. The reason men fare better financially afterward is because they tend to have better careers. Men aren’t hypergamous. they just work.
Divorce is a way for women who’ve rarely or never worked to be redistributed wealth from men who worked their asses off for these women. The reason men fare better financially afterward is because they tend to have better careers. Men aren’t hypergamous. they just work.
That seems a bit rich coming from someone who doesn’t work because of psychological distress from a circumcision performed many years ago.
Alimony and child support payments are intended to be fair and equitable and promote the welfare of the children. If either parent , male or female, has sacrificed career opportunities in order to do the work of providing the bulk of the care of the children in the marriage, why shouldn’t that imbalance be recognized and addressed by the court? Why should the child have to suffer when the parent who has provided most of his care is suddenly forced into poverty?
In any case, I see far fewer of these sorts of divorce settlements these days, as both spouses increasingly work (though studies show that women still take a disproportionate career hit even if they remain in the workforce). I also see an increasing number of stay at home fathers, as well as many mediated divorce settlements, and amicable and cooperative co-parenting agreements post-divorce. It’s not 1950 anymore.
Seriously. The fact that he can make a living doing nothing other than lounge around and whine about his dick tells you everything about how very discriminated against he is.
I love that he’s using my tax contributions to do it.
Parents absolutely can have non-necessary procedures performed on their female children. For example, girls whose genitalia appeared ambiguous or “too masculine” were often given surgical corrections as infants. FGM is illegal in the UK and US, but legal elsewhere, just as male circumcision is practiced in varying degrees in different countries in accordance with their values, traditions, etc.
Positive discrimination is an advantage women have? Over men? Women have never been discriminated against as a group? Hahahahahaha! God, that’s really funny!
Just as FGM is illegal, parents shouldn’t be able to force MGM on boys.
Now this is a tenable argument. Strip off all that other garbage and you might actually get somewhere.
…yet women don’t have a legal right to maintain genital integrity by choosing cesarean sections.”
Actually, yes, they do.
Wrong. You can request one and hope that you get one, but there is no guarantee, and many providers/hospitals/regulating agencies explicitly try to limit them.
A woman who is refused a c-section has almost no legal recourse unless her baby dies or is severely injured.
“Name one man who has been forced to carry a pregnancy against his will.”
How is this men’s fault or society’s fault? Your beef is with mother nature. Have you been circumcised against your will? Yeah…
When abortion is outlawed or restricted women are forced to carry unwanted pregnancies. In these cases society decides that the well-being of an embryo supersedes the autonomy of the woman.
Well that’s your fault for going to a religious institution for medical help. Go to a proper medical doctor.
In the US and elsewhere many hospitals and healthcare institutions are run by religious institutions and are free to refuse services they don’t agree with– namely anything to do with contraception or termination, even when these procedures are in the best interest of the woman’s health. In Ireland a woman died after a hospital refused to allow a life-saving termination procedure to be done for a woman who had a serious infection.
Additionally, in the US health insurance coverage is generally provided through one’s employer. Employers can choose not to cover contraceptives for their employees if they claim that doing so would violate their religious beliefs.
Women have never been oppressed as a group, and they don’t work? What planet are you living on, exactly?
You clearly can’t put anything in context. Keep drinking the kool aid.
Equal pay.
Access to reproductive healthcare.
Safe access to the public sphere without threat of harassment.
Being taken seriously about above harassment.
Being taken seriously in general.
Women have equal pay. The wage gap is a myth and comes from averaging the wages of men and women in different jobs. Women and men make different life choices.
Women have access to reproductive care. Men have 0% reproductive rights.
Women are taken seriously about harassment.
Women are taken seriously. Women are worshipped. MEn can’t even complain about being mutilated without being told to man up and stop whining.
That bullshit may fly with your MRA buddies, but it’s not actually true.
It’s 100% true. No respectable economist gives any credence to it.
If you define “respectable economist” as “economist who doesn’t give credence to the wage gap” then yes, no respectable economist gives credence to it.
“No, you’re wrong, it’s totally backwards from what you said because I said so.”
“Ah yeah that little bit at the end about veterans consenting to having limbs blown off therefore their PTSD is not as valid as his.”
Strawman.
A summary of your implications is not a strawman. Do you even know what a strawman is? Because you sure like to throw the word around a lot in incorrect usages.
I didn’t say what you claim I said. That is a strawman.
No, that’s one component of a strawman, but not the whole thing. It’s also irrelevant, as you did say that they consented, and you didn’t, with the heavy implication that that makes it worse for you than for them.
No you interpreted that I meant it was worse. I didnt’ say that. I simply said they provided informed consent and I didn’t.
We aren’t discussing anatomy. We’re discussing neurology. Learn the difference.
I didn’t say my PTSD was worse than veterans’. I simply said they made an informed choice, but circumcision victims don’t. Do you understand?
Yes, you have a martyr complex. I understand that very well, you don’t have to keep repeating it.
“And that he said circumcision was the worst form of child abuse, and should give a child the right to behead their parents once they grow up.”
Why not? If a child is a slave to the parent, why can’t the parent be a slave to the child?
That makes no sense. Slave= person you would behead?
Well if you own a person, you can kill them. Black slaves were killed legally as they were property.
Actually, the right to kill a slave has varied through human history.
Regardless, a slave is property.
Please, keep demonstrating just how freaking crazy you are.
Yes, I’m crazy for stating neurological facts and saying circumcision is sexually suppressive. The people cutting baby boys aren’t the crazy ones.
There’s also an anti-Semetic flavour to his remarks.
And as well as having a set on Nick he persistently refers to women as ‘lad’ laddie’ and similar, and says he’s too busy to keep track of who is which gender/ doesn’t care.
Deeply offended by anything other than good old piv.
Though I never did learn whether my children are pseudo children.
I don’t remember him calling me “lad” or “laddie”. He did call me “sweetie” a couple times, but I started that by quoting Penny from Big Bang Theory at him a couple times with “Oh, sweetie, no.” when he was being especially stupid.
He called me laddie quite a few times: I never bothered correcting him, I don’t actually think he knew who he was responding to half the time-just auto completing the boxes with his spittle flecked lunacy, catchwords and alternating rage and pity-seeking.
I told my other half about this guy. As a victim of sexual assault and a circumcised man quite happy with his sweetheart, he thinks this guy is a major idiot.
oh, and he also said that no abuse my father suffered was anywhere near as traumatic as his circumcision. Even though his mother beat and berated him for years and years. It doesn’t matter in the least so long as Dad’s schlong isn’t a “numb dildo”. Like *I’d* know. No *MAN* tells his children about his sexual function.
To be honest, I was worried for a bit that this guy was my father operating under a pseudonym. Same argument style, same victim complex, same fixation, and same hatred for anyone not a white, straight, cis male.
(Which is why he’s not part of my life)
that rather sucks.
Oddly enough, he decided to contact me yesterday with some whining about how we’re not close anymore. I explained why and told him to leave me alone, apparently that was negotiable and I’m both a liar and a victim. Feeling pretty proud of myself because I finally scraped up the courage to tell him to F-off, and blocked him.
I’m sorry you were put on that spot, but well done.
Thanks!
It’s terrifying to be put in that kind of situation out of the blue. Especially when they’ve toyed with your mind before.
Good job not letting him sink his claws back into your life. It’s never easy when it’s family doing the abusing…
Thanks! And yes, it is difficult but worth it to keep the kids safe.
Oh, and he’s a virgin who knows exactly what sex is supposed to feel like. He said he enlightened a lot of guys online, through masturbatory conversation, about how they initially thought they had non-foreskin pleasure, but he showed them it was actually only because of the foreskin. He also mentioned a third option for making him feel like he could move forward with his life, which is killing doctors who do circumcisions.
But the ongoing Histology thing was definitely my favorite.
When did I say I was a virgin? Projecting much.
You do a mighty fine impression of one…
When you’ve lost the argument, resort to shaming tactics.
Oh, Lawrence, we don’t need to make you look bad. You do all the work for us. The above was just a statement of fact.
I’ve finished my part in this discussion, but what I posted before was this person’s comments on a site called “Inside Man”
http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2015/01/15/male-circumcision-can-be-worse-than-fgm-rules-senior-judge/
His style is remarkably consistent, despite the very different audience. People like this must spend their lives following key words all over the internet, pushing their agenda and repeating their tropes, much like the committed anti-vaxers do.
Nice.
I think you effectively outed him and he’s off looking for new pastures to plunder.
Mishimoo also likely had him nailed when she suggested this is his stimulation for ‘personal times’.
“It is NOT POSSIBLE to have a numb, unresponsive penis as a result of loss of the foreskin – the anatomy doesn’t work that way.
”
Anatomy is not neurology. All the erogenous nerves are in the foreskin. This has been proven. You have swallowed folk theories with no basis in science.
Not even remotely.
No, that would be you.
No, I have the neurological facts. You think you have a magic penis which defies those neurological facts.
You have one paper, that doesn’t even say what you claim it does.
It does say what I claim it does. And I gave you two papers.
You have no papers that contradict the neurology.
I win.
“Neener neener, I win!”? What are you, 7?
It’s a simple statement of fact. Dont’ get mad.
I’m not mad, I’m incredulous. Also, close to laughing my ass off.
Too bad you will never know the only true pleasure of laughing your foreskin off.
That’s because you have Downs. Everything seems funny when you have Downs.
Now who is speculating?
That said, I went to highschool with a person with actual Downs. He was not especially cheerful, from what I remember.
That’s because he was confronted with you.
Now you’re using Down Syndrome as an insult?
He’s like a parody of an immature MRA.
Actually, it’s not just now, this is the third or fourth time he’s said I have Downs.
I apologise to all Downs Syndromes. They aren’t as thick as you guys.
I’m not worried about falling for anything. It doesn’t hurt me at all to be open-minded about what he claims is his own experience–which I find reasonably plausible, if only for him, personally.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion about circumcision, and maybe especially so if it’s something you’ve experienced yourself. None of it is a justification for being a jerk to women, veterans, jews, people of color, etc.
I’m fairly confident that the main points are true:
he does not enjoy sex or masturbation as much as he thinks he should, he was circumcised as a teen and he had developed a form of masturbation which was no longer effective after circumcision.
The rest, well, that’s definitely between his ears not his legs.
He claims he doesn’t actually have a numb, unresponsive penis in that he is able to have sex and “weak” ejaculations. He just doesn’t enjoy it. My guess is his this is all his excuse for not enjoying sex (at least not with women) rather than the result of it. He is abnormal in some way and grasping at circumcision as his excuse.
To jump on a theme expressed earlier in this cheap Greek drama, his problem is between his ears, not his legs. Circumcision and the Jewish Feminist Complex is a convenient excuse that comes with a pre-formed enabling community and means of unproductive employment.
My story is factual. As is the neurology of the foreskin/glans I’ve explained to you.
Sorry, I can’t resist-
If circumcision caused loss of sexual function, circumcising cultures would have died out long ago. No sex means no babies means extinction.
Can one individual be the one in a million who has unusual nerve distribution that concentrates nerve endings in the foreskin instead of the glans? Sounds plausible. Overall a population, you’re still more likely to have complications from having a foreskin than having had it removed.
Really, why are there still Jews and Muslims if guys loose the interest in sex after circumcision?
This is a very fair question.
No doubt asking it makes the writer a feminist, FGM hating but MGM supporting lunatic, according to our visitor.
Can he come up with a more original response than that?
apparently not
Cutting a foreskin off at birth is the same as cutting a foreskin off in one’s teens. the nerves are gone. By your logic, FGM is acceptable as long as it’s done on baby girls because they will miraculously feel their clitoris and clitoral hood when older due to …. magic. It’s lunacy.
It’s neuroscience, not magic, genius. Physical alterations have profoundly different effects in people depending upon when they occur.
If you insist upon making up arguments for me, at least try to be accurate. I do think a clitoral hood removal in infancy would be somewhat analogous to routine male circumcision (which I’m not particularly in favor of, ftr), and would differ in magnitude of effect significantly from FGM procedures performed at puberty.
Cutting a clitoral hood off as a baby is the same as cutting off a clitoral hood at 15 yrs old. The only difference is the 15 yr old will know what she’s lost.
Nope.
We really need a bingo card – he just implied Wren is impolite (despite his own insults and days-long tantrum)
What part of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder don’t you understand? Do you expect me to be the height of diplomacy when faced with people who trivialise the unnecessary act of medical negligence performed on me?
You chose to come here and begin a discussion about circumcision, you chose to trigger yourself. You get to deal with the consequences, especially when you keep coming back to argue some more. No one is forcing you to comment here.
Nobody is forcing you to reply. And yet you do. Something tells me you have a lot invested in this. Are you mutilated yourself, or did you mutilate your son? That’s usually the reason.
I am bored and it’s interesting in a grotesque way to see what nonsense you will come up with next. Though, you are getting a bit stale with your constant stream of ableism and questions about the genitals of random strangers and their children.
Ableism? What the fuck. lol What are you on about!
Oh honey, perhaps you need to learn some new tactics? Gaslighting is so overrated.
Gaslighting? Again, what the fuck are you on about?
Foul language is not polite, dear. You should abide by the standards you set for others.
Defending child abuse isn’t polite either.
Show me where I have.
You defend circumcision. Circumcision of infants is child abuse.
Like I said, show me where I have. Find a direct quote where I have defended it, instead of just stirring you up. Good luck.
If you’re not defending it, then I have no idea why you’re replying.
You came to a post about breastfeeding to talk about your penis and yell at strangers for disagreeing with you. Surely other people are allowed to play too?
Yes, genital mutilation is a game.
You toss it out so freely that it is difficult to believe it is anything more than a game to you.
Yes, facts are a game. You are right.
U mad, bro?
Of course, the same applies to you.
I honestly feel terrible for you, Lawrence. You’re obviously suffering. It makes sense that going through circumcision as a teenager and having your sexuality negatively altered would be very upsetting, and then not having any recourse or acknowledgement of your loss would very naturally make you angry.
Maybe it’s not your intent, maybe you’re just blowing off steam, but I do think you’d get further if you didn’t try to diminish women, rape victims, victims of FGM, wounded veterans, etc. I do believe what you’re saying about your own experience, and I’m sorry it happened to you and that you continue to suffer ill effects.
When did I diminish any of these situations?
A sampling:
Rape is nowhere near as damaging as no sexual pleasure for life due to non-consensual mutilation. Let’s get real hear. FGM is worse than rape. MGM is worse than rape.
Mutilation is worse than rape. Rape cause potential psychological damage. Genital mutilation caused potential psychological damage and guaranteed sexual damage.
Rape is less damaging than irreversible sexual suppression
Yes, the average circumcision removes more functionality and sensation than the average female one.
I find it hilarious how you feminists always moan about victim-blaming when it comes to rape victims, but when you have a male victim in front of you, what do you do? Yup, victim blame.
I simply said women have more rights and privileges in Western society, which they do.
…made up by whining feminist types
There’s also all the secondary victimisation as a circumcision victim because it’s legal and people trivialise it and even promote it. Imagine a rape victim living in a society that mocked her for being traumatised and allowed rape to be legal.
You will only feel sorry for the female victims. Typical feminist.
It’s unbelievable to think feminists actually think men have it better in Western society. Women have way more rights and privileges.
IF I was a female, I’d be a millionaire now because of what they did to me. Must be the patriarchy
But because females tend not to choose STEM because they like different things , feminists moan and say it’s men’s fault . A bit like they moan about the wage gap that’s caused by women making different choices due to having different preferences from men.
o I need to grow up but feminists are totally fine moaning about white privilege and rape culture that doesn’t exist…….. cuckoo
I’m not a black lesbian with a degree in gender studies
You’ve made it clear you support child abuse (but only male children) and you hate males–though probably only white men, knowing your sort.
So you’re angry because you’re paranoid walking to your car? You do realise men are far more likely to be violently assaulted right? Oh wait, it’s all about rape.
Proof: ask 100 women whether they’d rather have an unsolicited penis in their vajayjay for 15 minutes or have their vulva sliced off. I am right.
Only a progressive SJW feminist idiot would turn round to a guy complaining about abuse of male children and make a sarcastic reply about white male privilege.
the cunt whose blog this is is an anti-male witch who attracts a legion of fellow anti-male, OMG-the-patriarchy-and-white-privilege-are-out-to-get-us types.
And you’re a disgusting cunt and quack who supports the sexual suppression of males. Are you Jewish? That’s usually the case.
but feminists aren’t professional victims for making up myths about wage gaps, patriarchy, white privilege and rape culture?
whining about folklore like rape culture, white privilege, wage gaps and patriarchy
I think abortion is unethical and a way for people (women, usually) to abdicate responsibility for their actions and excuse this with mental gymnastics. However, it’s not as bad as giving birth to a kid, then mutilating him.
A system that hates men made me miserable. It’s legal to ruin a man’s sex life for life. I get no apology and no compensation. But if a man wolf-whistles at a woman in the street, women are oppressed. Can’t you see how mad society is?
You can dish out loads of contempt for circumcised men who complain, yet you get angry at a wee joke about effeminate gay men.
Why don’t you womansplain some more. I need to be taught how to be more emotional and less logical
Worra twat.
you’re an anti-male follower of the anti-male witch who writes this blog and, as such, will not listen to reason.
If I’m banned, then the cunt doesn’t like the truth.
Woman, man …. you’re still a cunt.
So you know you’re a cunt.
Why fuck a cunt with a numb dildo?
Why are you still replying, anti-male cunt?
I’m never going away. I speak truth to cunts.
Plenty of men-haters who are with manginess.
Anyone who willingly signs up for front line combat is informed they could have a limb blown off.
They made the decision to go into pointless was to be used as expendable assets
I was abused as a kid. Circumcision is way worse.
I think that about sums it up.
And what’s your point? Are you saying rape is worse than FGM?
Does that look like what I said?
Suffering is not a zero sum game. Your pain does not become more legitimate when you minimize the pain of others. I believe you are suffering (because why else would you post so extensively about it on the internet), but you’re hardly winning people over with your hate-filled rhetoric.
Yes, that is what you said, because FGM = MGM, and you reacted with horror at my view that MGM is worse than rape.
So which is it? Is human genital mutilation worse than rape, or isn’t it?
You’re going through an awful lot of contortions there. How do you know whether I reacted with horror or not?
And to answer your question, I don’t believe that it’s possible or useful to make a determination about what form of human suffering is worse than any other. I suspect that a man circumcised at birth in the tradition of his family and community probably suffers less than a woman who is raped in many cases, yes. Different people, different situations…it very much depends.
In your case, you seem to be suffering considerably, and for that I am sorry. However, I have no idea why or how you think that hating women, jews, etc. helps your situation in any way.
“I suspect that a man circumcised at birth in the tradition of his family and community probably suffers less than a woman who is raped in many cases, yes.”
Do women circumcised at birth suffer less than rape victims? Not just psychologically but physically?
I have no idea. In fact, I’m almost positive that individual levels of suffering vary significantly and are next to impossible to measure accurately and that trying to make a hierarchy of suffering with your particular perceived wrong at the top is a pointless and self-centered endeavor.
I actually agree. However, society laid the groundrules. When men complain about MGM, we get told to man up and stop comparing it to the “totally worse” FGM. Don’t shoot me for playing by the rules.
Frankly, you and a handful of other random anti-circumcision internet commenters are the only people I’ve ever heard complain about it, and good grief do you ever complain! I’m not even particularly in favor of circumcision, but your horrible attitude toward women, people of other races or ethnicities, people with disabilities, veterans, etc. is repulsive and quite honestly makes me feel less interested in hearing and considering your point of view.
He’s not suffering, he’d have to go and get a job if it wasn’t for ‘all this’.
Someone could do an alternative version with all his victimisation bits in it.
Okay so after a night of sleeping on this and some free time on the weekend, let me propose something.
Stay with me here, I’m not going to belittle, insult, or meme you in this post. If I do, you can call me every dirty name under the sun and I won’t report it. That probably doesn’t mean much but it’s all I’ve got.
This does mean a lot to you and yes it should. You did lose a part of your body and sexual identity. That can derail a lot of your life.
You do want to get word out but as seen here your way of going about it may not convince the fence sitters. You like hard facts in peer reviewed papers. I think people that are able to offer service helps with recovery.
So here is what I propose.
I know that because of your situation you don’t have a lot of money to spend. So you’ll have to network with friends or strangers with like minded goals because this will require some travel. How much is your choice since there are several options. I have a feeling they’d be okay creating a kick starter or something similar in this case.
You have what you’ve described to be something of an anomaly in losing all ability to experience sexual pleasure. I’m not going to argue that here. I promised no heckling or insults. As has been expressed in other comments, that doesn’t seem to be what most others have experienced. You are in a unique situation to help your cause. You can also find others who have the same or similar but less extensive loss.
Have you thought about volunteering or trying to help organize a study on men like yourself? Not in the UK because that’s where this started and I wouldn’t ask you to go back to what hurt you in the first place and people you don’t trust.
Here’s where the travel comes in. Germany is a country questioning the validity of the procedure. I don’t know much about their medical research infrastructure so that would take some investigation. There are also likely people that would help you get there and probably volunteer a place to stay in your circle of interest.
A country I know a little bit more about is Norway and they appear to have a robust medical research infrastructure. I don’t know much about their stance on circumcision expect it is far below 20% from a cursory glance. But I do know they have an interest in helping with male specific problems.
This is an anecdote so feel feel to discard it, but a family friend of mine was diagnosed with bone metastatic prostate cancer and was given six months to live. So this is a specifically male disease. His family is from Norway and he’d heard that Norway had treatments that were not yet available in the US so he went there to be treated. He was able to come home prostate cancer free. He did unfortunately pass away a few months later but it wasn’t from cancer but influenza that progressed to ARDS because of his weakened constitution. But Norway did give him his wish not to let cancer kill him and that was the most important goal he had.
There’s also Japan but that’s a much larger chunck of money so it depends on if Japan had what you need.
There’s likely someone connected enough in your group that knows someone who may already be doing research in a country that is more in line with your views who needs bodies or someone who would want to do this.
If you could make this happen, you’d be making that difference you want with hard science.
Just a suggestion and maybe pie in the sky but the worst that can happen is someone says no. The best is you’d be using what happened to you to help someone else. And that’s what you said you wanted when you came here.
“You have what you’ve described to be something of an anomaly in losing all ability to experience sexual pleasure. ”
No, your ASSUMPTION is it’s an anomaly. Just like you ASSUME FGM removes all sexual pleasure.
Objections to FGM are not all about sexual pleasure. It’s not surprising you cannot see that though.
Yes, objections are also due to potential fatality and pain.
But fatalities and pain are caused by male genital mutilation, too.
And potential fertility loss, which is particularly terrible for those women who are living in cultures in which an infertile woman is considered worthless. And increased problems in birth. And increased risk to babies during birth. And increase risk of fistulas.
We’ll just ignore those though, shall we? It’s just women and babies, not men’s sexual pleasure.
When did I say we should ignore this?
What’s worse, fertility loss or death?
In some societies, that’s truly a debatable question.
You managed to ignore those additional issues for women up until now, so I don’t think it was wrong to think that would continue. You have already played down the issue of fertility loss in this thread.
I’m not playing it down. If it’s an issue , it’s an issue. But why is it worse than males dying? Why is it worse than loss of the primary erogenous organ? Why is it worse than gangrene of the penis?
No one said it was worse than anyone dying, but it may well be worse than the loss of the primary erogenous organ, whatever that might be. Had you asked me mid-fertility treatment, I would have willingly given every future orgasm for a baby and I did not live in a society in which barren women are seen as worthless.
Victim card.
Yawn.
should be the center box of the bingo card
Can I put a suggestion up here?
Can all the blow-in commenters who respond to some key word, but have zero interest in obstetrics, childbirth or the related issues that are discussed on this blog, go straight into some other junk folder?
We’ve all had some fun, but is it worth digging through all the mud to follow the intended discussion?
Those who want to enjoy sparring with the offender could go over to the junk folder, and leave the main thread for discussion of the article.
Is that doable? If so, great idea.
Probably not…I was just dreaming.
It would be nice if there was a way. Maybe time to start sending suggestions to Disqus? I mean, worse they can say is no.
“This can go on for years,” he says. UGH. Well, he’s already told us he doesn’t have a job to get back to (unlike most of us here), so I guess that’s true. His only hope now is to get banned. He’s already spouted MRA propaganda and anti-semitism, anti-LGBT, pretty much anti anything not a straight white male. I wonder how long it will be before he devolves into threats?
I don’t know if he’ll move to threats, it doesn’t fit his personal narrative of professional victim. I’m still convinced he’s just using this as stimulating material for his personal time. After all, the prostate does need to be emptied manually and reportedly not by direct digital stimulation.
Well…I guess I’m glad we poor females are able to perform some kind of service. We’re not good for much else, right? (Lawrence, that was sarcasm…Google it if you’re not sure, I know it’s a tough concept). Anywho, I’ve actually got shit to do today. Hopefully by tonight this will all be a distant disqus memory. I do hope someone is screenshotting?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yh3QYpKfJs
News just in: According to the logic of the people on this page, female circumcision is perfectly fine and victims are not damaged.
Cue mental gymnastics.
Is Lawrie trying to get banned, following in the footsteps of his sock puppet Doc Pepper? He’s calling a poster the Very Bad C Word (not capitalist, the other one) down thread.
Perhaps he’s had a sleep and seen just how nutty he looks, and if Dr T banned him that would be one more badge of victimhood, and would look much better for him than him having to discreetly delete himself.
I do think he’s trying to get banned, at this point. Then he could go back to his little penis cult and brag about that. For now – I mean, he’s linked to his book, there’s nothing else productive he can do here.
My husband is blind from birth, he has a pretty good idea what he’s missing. He’s been circumcised from birth but according this dude my guy doesn’t know what he’s missing there.
Well if he has never felt his foreskin, it’s safe to conclude he doesn’t know what he’s missing.
Your husband’s issue, according to Lawrie, is trivial compared to his. Trivial!!!
Lawrie has all the suffering in the world beaten.
And he can’t even sue! The horror.
I know, right?! I mean he can feel his eyeballs! Okay, so they’re decorative, but he knows they exist! Lawrie’s suffering is clearly far, far worse than my blind, foreskin-less but generally happy husband.
LN will never get a new foreskin.
He will never get a civil suit decided in his favour.
He could choose to move on with his life.
He could choose to experiment and find something else he likes sexually, and failing that he could make a romantic connection with someone which doesn’t become sexual.
He hasn’t, and won’t, at least for the moment, because at present he seems to be enjoying the pity party that the MRAs are throwing.
But it’s a terrible party, with an awful guest list and terrible entertainment, I hope he doesn’t realise that only when he’s eventually alone, with no one who cares for him and no one he cares about.
I hope LN comes to realise that the only person he is hurting is himself, and he certainly isn’t helping anyone else. I hope he can take those positive steps.
It’s just too depressing to think of all these sad, lonely people, feeding each other’s dysfunction and never moving out from the dark little corners they’ve backed themselves into.
When mutilated men complain, they are told there’s something wrong with them, not something wrong with what was done to them. When mutilated women who were mutilated by other women complain, they are told their mutilation is barbaric and men are to blame.
Feminist logic
When FGM survivors complain, their cause is hijacked by rape-apologist intactivist MRA antitheist antisemites.
Females are human. MAles are human. Human genital mutilation. Not hijacked, just common sense.
And yet, here you are trivalising one while critisising the other.
I’ve not trivialised FGM. I’ve simply pointed out the fact FGM is illegal while MGM is legal. They are both the same in principle. I’ve also pointed out that the claim FGM is worse or different doesn’t actually have any basis in hard science. I don’t need to point out how barbaric FGM is constantly since it’s illegal and everyone agrees. But we euphemistically call the male version “circumcision” and pretend it’s less severe. It’s a folk theory.
As others have stated before, your grasp of hard science is not based in reality. Thank you for providing more data points to proving the hypothesis that your grasp of English isn’t either.
They haven’t pointed this out though. I’ve wrecked you all. You’re just too stubborn and anti-male to see that.
What’s wrong with my English?
Oh sure whatever you say. You are a master of logic and reason.
Guess what, you still can’t have sex.
Does it make you feel better?
Thought not.
I know I can’t. I’ve told you that before. You can’t have sex as nature intended it if you have no erogenous tissue on your genitals. Why repeat what we already know?
Fun and pleasure, which is why I think you don’t understand.
Nature didn’t intend for the internet to exist. Yet here we are.
Nature intended for my grandmother to bleed to death from placenta previa when she was pregnant with my mother.
Nature intends for labour to be painful, for babies and mother to die in childbirth. For kids to die of illness. For practically everyone with a chronic condition to die in pain.
You shouldn’t give to much though of how nature intends for you to have sex.
You are a master of false equivalences.
By your logic, we can sodomise kids, right? After all, shit happens , right?
No, you are supposed to use your brain to raise above nature. You shouldn’t be making decision or deciding what’s good or bad based on what is natural and what isn’t.
So you think we can cut off people’s limbs then? After all, we shouldn’t be making decisions of what’s good or bad based on what’s natural, right?
Yes or no, laddie.
and what does nature has to do with cutting of people’s limbs?
Because we are born with limbs. Your logic is we can’t oppose cutting off foreskin based on what’s natural. So why would you oppose cutting off limbs because limbs are natural? Why are you cherrypicking?
Foreskinphobia.
No, that’s not what I said.
You said that you couldn’t have sex the way nature intended if you are circumcised and I said that ‘the way nature intended’ is not what you should care about.
Well then you are okay with cutting off vulvas because society thinking women should have sex the way nature intended is not what they should care about.
Cue ‘that’s not what I said’
So, now your argument is making something up, than trying to claim the higher ground by predicting I will say that this is not what I said?
But here, I’ll say it: That’s not what I said.
My point is still that you should not be aiming to have ‘sex the way nature intended’ and think of yourself, or whatever sex you have as being ‘less’ because it wasn’t the way nature intended.
Well I can’t aim for having sex as nature intended as I didn’t have the right. I was rendered sexually dysfunctional, devoid of erogenous tissue on my genitals.
and you should stop focussing on the way nature intended you to have sex and figure out new things that you like.
But then he couldn’t shill his story for money so he can continue to avoid being a responsible adult and get a damn job!
I haven’t got any money for being a victim of circumcision. If I was a woman, it would be a different story.
So you don’t work, you supposedly don’t get any money from being in that book, but somehow you can still afford an internet connection and some kind of electronic device that uses it. Interesting.
I get a small amount of benefits due to depression/PTSD. Do you grudge me that? IT’s hardly compensation for being sexually suppressed for life.
Begrudge? No. Find it incredibly sad that you don’t even want to try to move past your issues to have more than a small stipend and your anger? Yes.
Well PTSD/depression needs treatment. I’m engaging with what they’ve offered me–sertraline and therapy. I don’t hold much hope. Especially having to live in a society that still regularly does this and all the secondary victimisation that goes along with it.
By the way, to give you an indication of what’s going on. A muslim doctor tried to get my sister to circumcise my nephew because he had a UTI. They try and force their culture on people. Luckily my sister knew what circumcision had done to me and knew foreskin has nothing to do with UTIS. She got antibiotics and problem solved. If she had been duped, it would have been very unlikely she could have successfully sued because technically cicumcision can be offered legally, even though it’s not necessary.
I’m seriously doubting that. I could say that a doctor cause unicorns to fly out of my ass but that doesn’t make it true.
And you’ve admitted that you don’t take advantage of the therapy you’re offered because it’s useless.
Also, sertraline is infamous for causing anorgasmia. Maybe try a different one because this one certainly isn’t working.
I go to the therapy, but yes, it has been useless. I’m currently waiting on a health psychologist. Sertraline is not the cause of my problems. I’ve had these problems since the day I was circumcised and I’ve only been on these pills for 3 or 4 months. Actually, sertraline removed a lot of my anxiety/stress. I’m still very depressed and feel hopeless but I’m going up to 100mg a day from today from 50mg previously.
You see, I explain factual things that happened and you just go HUR THAT DIDNT HAPPEN. ffs
Are you talking to yourself there?
I’d suggest escitalopram. It has rather the opposite effect, as I can attest from personal experience while my doctor and I were still finding the right dosage.
Welbutrin and Effexor are both excellent for not causing sexual side effects of massive weight gain like some others do. I’m very happy my body tolerates them. Only complaint is effexor’s really short half life. It does keepe from sleeping in all day though. Nothing like the risk of a massive migraine and brain zaps to get you out of bed! Lol
Welbutrin can cause anxiousness in some people though but the Effexor is a very good drug for anxiety and panic attacks. So the two together usually keep both the depression and anxiety under control.
Thank goodness we have a variety these days. Or medication at all.
You’re very kind to indulge his need for pity.
Kind or insane.
I am doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Not much expectation, but I’m kind of a hopeless optimist under the sarcasm and dark humor.
Is this a lifelong thing for you? I am glad you are using my tax money to avoid becoming a mature adult.
How do you feel about the NHS using your tax money to mutilate boys unnecessarily and causing this in the first place?
They do not circumcise without medical reason.
Wrong. I didn’t have a medical reason. The ycircumcised me
No. You had a medical reason but in retrospect disagree with the treatment you and your parents consented to. Not the same thing at all.
Tight foreskin isn’t a reason to cut off a foreskin. It’s like cutting off a leg to cure a wart.
I don’t like anything else. Well … I wouldn’t mind executing people who mutilate babies. That would give me some satisfaction . Plus I’d be doing the world a service.
That is a very, very sad thing. If I were to somehow lose all ability to have sex, I would still have so many other things in my life. I really think you need to try psychiatry again.
It’s easy for you to say that in your position, but imagine you went into hospital at 14 having discovered the wonders of sexual pleasure, and walked out the next day and realised you’d lost it for life. No apology. No explanation. No ability to get a resolution. Think about that for a second.
There are people who lose all ability to have sex at all, pleasurable or not, who still manage to have more in their lives. Think about that.
Cue the “Oh, but you’re a woman and you don’t truly have a sex drive unless there is a penis involved. It doesn’t matter as much to you because you’re not a man” argument.
False equivalencies.
How is it a false equivalency? Explain yourself.
You say that to try and sound intelligent, but you know you’ve been bested. I use your logic against you and you hate that.
Actually, no, I don’t hate it because any semblance of this being an intelligent conversation was thrown out the window days ago. I’m laughing my ass off. So I’m not.going to explain myself. I’m just going to say big words and assign my own definitions to them.
I also have a massive folder of funny pictures that happen to coincide with your crazy. It’s fun to match it all up and share my findings with others.
I love that cat one.
Every single reply you make is devoid of any argument. You’re pretending to laugh because you don’t have a case.