It all worked so perfectly … except for the part where the baby couldn’t breathe

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Which came first, the homebirth or the narcissism?

 

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[pullquote align=”right” color=”#E4A4B2″]Still in amazement that this lovely bonnie girl came out of my vagina! [/pullquote]

My HBAC this morning was at 42+1 and my little girl’s placenta was giant and healthy, zero calcifications or signs of age.

 

Too bad her baby was giant, but NOT healthy.

 

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Please keep my little daughter … in your thoughts and prayers. Two hours after an amazing homebirth this morning @42+1, my very bonnie 9.8 lb little girl suddenly developed breasthing problems and MW had to call an ambulance and we raced to the city hospital. She’s being well looked after in NICU (and looking like the most enormous baby surrounded by tiny prems), but we still don’t know what’s causing her very laboured breathing ๐Ÿ™

 

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She’s doing OK, looks like she got fluid (may have been from her overly vigorous but slightly uncoordinated first breastfeed) on her lungs or possibly and infection. Just cuddled her and rocked her to sleep, and expressed her some colostrum…

Still in amazement that this lovely bonnie girl came out of my vagina! And I didn’t need stitches! It all worked so perfectly.

 

On what planet is a birth that ends with the baby in the NICU struggling to breathe and possibly suffering from pneumonia perfect?

Oh, right, on Planet Narcissist where the mother’s experience is more important than whether the baby can draw breath.

How perfect would the birth have been if the mother ended up in the ICU struggling to breathe? I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the mother would not have found it so perfect at all, despite marvelling about the fact that a baby transited her vagina. But what’s a little trouble getting oxygen to your brain when it merely happens to the baby? No need to feel bad about that; she was just a prop in her mother’s festival of narcissism known as high risk homebirth.

The homebirth went perfectly … for the mother, and apparently that’s the only thing that matters.

210 Responses to “It all worked so perfectly … except for the part where the baby couldn’t breathe”

  1. Elaine
    November 26, 2015 at 7:31 pm #

    What’s with the misleading headlines? Did the baby die? Nothing in this article implies this.

    By the way, in my two hospital births, intervals of 4 or more hours routinely passed without any medical personnel checking the baby, so it’s quite likely she would have gone longer than two hours before anyone in a hospital noticed the need for care.

    • Linden
      November 27, 2015 at 3:46 am #

      So did you leave the baby alone too? For the equivalent time it would take to phone an ambulance, explain the situation, wait for the ambulance, load you and the baby in, travel to the hospital, go into ER, have the situation explained to medical personnel? At the hospital, medical help would be there at the press of a button.
      Wherever my baby’s birth took place, if he ended up in NICU, I wouldn’t be saying, “what a perfect birth we had!”
      It just shows the level of cognitive dissonance necessary to keep your NCB beliefs, that such an unpleasant and scary outcome can be part of “the perfect homebirth”. You display the same cognitive dissonance:
      “The baby didn’t die, what the hell are you worried about?”
      If you don’t see what is wrong with your comment, I really despair for you, and anyone in your care, adult or child.

      • Elaine
        November 27, 2015 at 10:07 am #

        Sorry—Misread the title original post–which appeared right next to a post about dead babies. I just assumed “the baby couldn’t breath” meant “the baby died at birth”. Pneumonia in a newborn is of course very serious. There is no information that is was attributable to a home birth.
        My deliveries were low risk-, at least for the baby–but even so I found it rather alarming that there were such long intervals with no nurses stopping by, and when called, nurses were very slow to show up.

        • Linden
          November 27, 2015 at 10:19 am #

          Well, you can complain to the hospital if the level of care you received was substandard. Who you gonna complain to if the HB goes bad?

        • yugaya
          November 27, 2015 at 10:33 am #

          ” There is no information that is was attributable to a home birth.”

          Delay in diagnosis and care and inadequate monitoring of a high risk baby at home is directly attributable to high risk homebirth (HBAC at 42+1 weeks). That information is right up there in the post.

    • yugaya
      November 27, 2015 at 4:30 am #

      High risk babies not being checked for four or more hours? That never happened, and if it did, it would have been medical neglect. This was a high risk post term baby.

    • demodocus
      November 27, 2015 at 7:35 am #

      The nurses came in at least every 2 hours to check the newborn (and he was healthy and term.) My husband was there the whole time, my best friend there most of the day

  2. PInky
    November 24, 2015 at 8:54 pm #

    And on what planet are this baby’s breathing problems attributed to her home birth?
    This could just as easily have happened after a hospital birth.
    You cannot blame home birth for this Amy.
    And far more babies are admitted to nicu with dispnoea after c section so quit the bs and get your facts right.

    • Linden
      November 25, 2015 at 4:34 am #

      Two hours after a hospital birth, the daughter would still be in hospital, where there wouldn’t be any faffing about calling the ambulance, waiting for it to turn up, transport while the baby struggled to breathe. So, a perfect setting for the mum wasn’t the safest place for the baby, was it?
      In the hospital after I gave birth, I choked on a piece of toast, the first thing to pass my lips after 24 hours of projectile vomiting. My husband later told me how impressed he was, as three nurses rushed to the room within seconds, one got me fully upright and administered first aid, one fetching resuscitation equipment, the last checking on the baby, to make sure I hadn’t dropped him, I guess. I was too busy trying not to pass out.
      Yeah, that’s the level of safety and professionalism that choking babies don’t really need, eh?

    • yugaya
      November 27, 2015 at 4:42 am #

      “You cannot blame home birth for this”
      You can blame a high risk homebirth for this.

    • Linden
      November 27, 2015 at 10:26 am #

      first link on my google search: “Determination of risk factors of neonatal pneumonia” on pubmed:

      “Results shows mean birth weight (p<0.05), inadequate antenatal care (p<0.001), normal vaginal delivery (p<0.05), home delivery (p<0.001), delivery by untrained personnel (p<0.001), neonatal resuscitation (p<0.001), intrapartum fever (p<0.01), obstetric problem of mother (p<0.001), foul smelling liquor (p<0.01), prolonged rupture of membrane (p<0.001), prolonged labour (p<0.05) were significantly associated with pneumonia. Multivariate analysis showed inadequate antenatal care (OR 168.9), home delivery (OR 13.8), intrapartum fever (OR 225.9), obstetric problem of mother (OR 33.4), requirement of resuscitation (OR 12.5), prolonged labour (OR 15.2) as significant risk factors of neonatal pneumonia."
      So yeah, 42wks+1, 9.8lbs baby, homebirth. Who could have guessed?

  3. staceyjw
    November 23, 2015 at 10:07 pm #

    Only a HBAC mom would think this was a success. They are so far out of reality, its not surprising. I am part of a great VBAC group, and these women come in every few days, with the craziest ideas, get mad at the most gentle of suggestions, then get mad and leave in a huff.

    Even worse, the women in the popular NCB VBAC/ HBAC group have had NUMEROUS deaths, too many to keep track. Not that you could keep track, because they are usually deleted pretty quickly. All while the evidence based group has lots of VBACS, but without all the deaths and serious NICU time (the sheer amount of cooling therapy used is outrageous considering how anti tech these women are). Many moms are in both groups, and learn how bad HBAC is from observing for awhile.

  4. Brooke
    November 21, 2015 at 1:51 pm #

    Its absolutely disgusting that you’re trolling groups to find venom for your website, how many stories did you need to go through before finding a mother whose BABY IS IN THE NICU to shame? Obviously she had such a bad experience previously that she would go to these lengths, but oh, how dare we question the medical community as to why that they did to this woman that she would have her baby, at home, at 42 weeks as opposed to being induced a earlier?

    • yugaya
      November 21, 2015 at 2:32 pm #

      ” how dare we question the medical community as to why that they did to this woman that she would have her baby, at home, at 42 weeks as opposed to being induced a earlier”

      How dare you idiots in those groups consider yourselves qualified to dispense deadly unlicensed medical advice that goes against current best medical care guidelines that recommend induction to prevent risks of post term pregnancy? How dare you idiots encourage women to ignore verified, quantified and documented risks based on fucked up naturalistic fallacies? How dare you disgusting idiots brainwash this woman through peer pressure into saying that her birth which landed her baby in NICU was perfect?

    • Nick Sanders
      November 21, 2015 at 2:43 pm #

      Obviously she had such a bad experience previously

      How is that obvious? Just because she made a stupid decision, doesn’t mean or even imply that she did so because of a past trauma. People do dumb shit all the time, for any number of reasons.

      • Bugsy
        November 27, 2015 at 6:37 am #

        Yep. The girl I know who went all NCB did so because she had a bad experience early on in her pregnancy. The experience? When she was newly pregnant and forced to scramble to find an OB accepting patients, the nurses at the clinic she found confirmed her pregnancy by asking her to pee on a stick.

        She was so insulted at not being treated like the special princess her pregnancy made her out to be (because they didn’t offer her a HCG blood test) that she switched to a midwife group. It quickly went downhill from there, including references to a certain farm in Tennessee.

        • demodocus
          November 27, 2015 at 7:24 am #

          Poor snowflake. But wouldn’t a needle poke be an intervention?

        • Dr Kitty
          November 27, 2015 at 7:28 am #

          You know, if my patients have positive home pregnancy tests, I don’t re-test unless I have a concern.
          All the urine HCG tests on the market are 99% accurate, and my patients usually take several, just to be sure. If the home tests are positive, they’re pregnant.

          What is one more test (and we buy the cheapest tests on the market, not super special Dr tests) going to achieve?

          • Bugsy
            November 27, 2015 at 11:09 am #

            I have no idea. She’d mentioned something further along the lines of believing that they didn’t even look at her results but pulled a random urine stick out of the trash (from another patient) to confirm her pregnancy. To this day I can’t even wrap my head around her thought process on that one.

            Having had 4-5 HCG blood tests each IVF pregnancy, all I can say is that I gladly would have traded all of the blood tests and infertility issues for getting pregnant the old fashion way and urine tests.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa
      November 22, 2015 at 1:46 pm #

      Its absolutely disgusting that you’re trolling groups to find venom for your website,

      Yeah, poor Princess Narcissist, putting her story out there for everyone to see. How dare anyone see it and not fawn over her wonderfulness!

    • Amazed
      November 22, 2015 at 2:16 pm #

      Obviously? Only to your uneducated, greedy, women-abusing, aka you aren’t allowed to change your mind and ask for epidural in labour because My Holy Goddessness is better for you than it pain relief ilk.

    • Charybdis
      November 22, 2015 at 8:45 pm #

      What I REALLY want to know is why the hell those who espouse the NCB woo so loudly and have such disdain for the whole medical side of things go running to the hospital when things go sideways? Bragging that she shoved a nearly 10 lb baby out of her vagina at home and that the breathing issues may be attributed to an “overly vigorous and uncoordinated breastfeed” and oh, I didn’t even need stitches and everything worked so perfectly! That is just insane thinking. Or a total disconnect from reality.

      Why the hell do those woomeisters insist on demonizing medical treatment and/or oversight of a birth but then all but DEMAND that doctors fix everything when something goes wrong? By that time, the mother is virtually guaranteed a crash c-section, the worst intervention of all. Then they will have the temerity to still bitch about the fact that the evil medical people did not hold their hand (metaphorically, and maybe literally as well) and did not speak softly and gently and stroke her ego about how brave she was. They will lie about how long they have been in labor or how long her membranes have been ruptured, pertinent facts like that, to what end? And complain because their blue, floppy baby was not immediately placed skin to skin because those evil doctors were trying to resuscitate the baby.
      And where did she say/imply that she had a bad previous experience?

      • Who?
        November 22, 2015 at 9:07 pm #

        Lovely victim blaming, then running for help to those they claim to know better than.

        The only thing this story doesn’t have, thank goodness, is baby dead and mum rushing for care for herself, care that she deliberately, or perhaps (if I’m wearing my kind hat) ignorantly refused for the child, giving the child no hope.

    • Staceyjw
      November 23, 2015 at 10:01 pm #

      Oh cut the crap. This woman posted it online, obviously proud of herself.

      Quit blaming medical professionals for a womans desire for a HBAC. Its so much more than that. Women choose HBAC/HB for many (usually bad) reasons, but a (truly) bad hospital experience is not always one of them. And I say truly bad, because getting your baby out healthy, via C Section, is generally not something so horrible that you need to risk your babies life to avoid it. (I don’t see how that risk is ever worth it, but thats just me.) Listen to enough of the NCBers “traumatic birth” stories and you find women that had ordinary experiences, that later decided were horrible because of a change in ideology.

      Also- I’m sure she would have been appalled at your suggestion of earlier induction! If you are considering a HBAC the idea of a timely induction is not in your worldview.

      • Bombshellrisa
        November 25, 2015 at 3:05 pm #

        I have missed you around here, the Abby Reichart debate would have been even more interesting if you had been commenting on it : )

  5. LaMont
    November 20, 2015 at 11:45 am #

    OT, but I *seriously* need someone to rip this apart: http://vitals.lifehacker.com/why-i-had-my-babies-with-a-midwife-instead-of-a-doctor-1743669422. I was weak and commented on it and now I hate myself a little (a lot).

    • Ash
      November 20, 2015 at 12:48 pm #

      The most starred comment on that article brings up an important point. For patient testing/procedures/monitoring, the NCB perspective of “the medical system doesn’t give you autonomy because they just do things, we give you the pros and cons and allow you to make decisions ” is not accurate.

      It is a healthcare providers to recommend the standard of care. Patients do have autonomy, of course. It is not a better model of care to say “Are you having an ultrasound?” and describing pros and cons. It is perfectly acceptable to say “I see you don’t have an order for an ultrasound yet. We schedule ultrasounds at “x” week to check on the development of the pregnancy. I will put in the order for you and the schedulers can help you make the appointment when you check out” It’s not some freaking fault of the Medical System if that’s the way it’s done. If the woman declines to schedule the utlrasound, it’s fine. But making a recommendation is not wrong.

      Can you imagine an apponitment in which you checked in and they asked you “Have you had your blood pressure checked today? Well, it’s up to you” “Have you had testing of your blood or urine during your pregnancy? Well, it’s up to you.”

      NCB midwives and doulas like to espouse how they do shared decision making and imply that hospital based healthcare providers do not do so. Shared decision making is not presenting all options as equal.

      • Bombshellrisa
        November 20, 2015 at 1:04 pm #

        “Can you imagine an apponitment in which you checked in and they asked you “Have you had your blood pressure checked today? Well, it’s up to you” “Have you had testing of your blood or urine during your pregnancy? Well, it’s up to you.”
        Yes, there are CPMs who give you the choice to decline those things, you can also decline your weight being taken, a glucose tolerance test and GBS testing. That isn’t allowing for autonomy either, it’s putting the pregnant woman in a position like a toddler who is being asked if it they want to go down for bedtime yet. It’s always a “no” because the toddler doesn’t understand the bigger picture. I don’t want to be treated like a toddler by a healthcare professional.

        • Ash
          November 20, 2015 at 1:17 pm #

          GWU midwives have no problem kicking patients out of their practice if they eat flour. No autonomy to eat flour there ;P

          https://books.google.com/books?id=4NEQFZQ1_nwC

          check out page 22 …”true informed consent” for breech delivery

          • Bombshellrisa
            November 22, 2015 at 2:44 pm #

            That is disgusting. It’s also shaming. It ignores every advancement that obstetrics has made EVER.

          • Amy
            November 23, 2015 at 9:18 pm #

            I’m disappointed that the hospital/medical staff support the extent of the woo I found on the GWU midwives site. They imply that kale and sweet potatoes are all you need to guarantee a perfect pregnancy.

      • Medwife
        November 21, 2015 at 7:18 pm #

        Basically, ultrasounds, GBS testing, GTTs, are opt out. I am more than happy to explain why we do them, and they do have the right to refuse, but they’re going to do so knowing that they’re going against best practice guidelines.

  6. Anna
    November 20, 2015 at 7:14 am #

    Great post as always! Selfishness and narcissism need to be exposed and named what they really are. High time smb started doing that. A bit OT: came across another nature-celebrating post in FB and it just made me mad even though I rarely get mad with them nowadays since the satire in this blog has taught me to merely laugh at the idiots. However what I read today just got me going. It was smth like “Obstetricians have become cold and heartless, blah-blah-blah, lost all respect for the miracle of a woman giving life, the bastards, well what could we expect from them. But the horrible thing is so many women take it for granted that their birth experience is far from perfect and emerge from it saying: I’m alive and well and so is my baby, what more could we want? So many women convince themselves that without the interventions they or their baby would have died but this is just due to denial… blah-blah-blah…” long rant in a VERY patronizing tone about just how sorry she feels for these miserable women who will never have a perfect birth experience like her own and how their babies are meant to grow up miserable creatures with wrecked psyche for the same reason. And I just thougth, f***cking bitch, what ABOUT those who really would have died without help? Do you and your nutty friends consider them not good enough to live but are just scared to say this out loud? Because might get slapped in the face, for sure. I just wish with all my heart that one day she ends up with a horrible feat of… whatever horrible ilness and there will be NOONE to help. And then may Mother Nature take Her course. Cause it’s all about experience. Better die naturally that survive in these horrible hospital walls. Only it sucks that when it comes to THEM personally the idiots quickly forget their ideology, which is definitely anything but humane and feministic.

  7. anh
    November 20, 2015 at 4:01 am #

    OT, but seriously, WTH World Health Organization? why do they keep saying this? http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/caesarean-sections/en/

  8. sfdsf
    November 19, 2015 at 7:32 pm #

    i am noticing a pattern here of home birth disasters involving post dates large babies (undiagnosed gestation diabetes cough) – when I worked NICU I remember a home birth baby transferred in from across half the country from the local hospital to our tertiary unit with meconium aspiration; the american mother was a “midwife” and the placenta was still attached – we need umbilical lines so negotiated the cutting of the cord – if it was not for the skill of a great neonatologist that made a heroic effort that kid would not of made it. Mums attitude so what if the lungs are not working – just do ECMO (which would involved sending the kind to Sweden) – was pissed that dad could not do skin to skin while the kid was on high frequency ventilation. Of course the mom got to visit frequently as she was admitted with an post partum hemorrhage – i am sure she had great experience. The midwife delivering the post date large baby with thick mec at home had a lot to answer for but i think was never held to account.

    • Sue
      November 19, 2015 at 8:13 pm #

      Margo needs to read this comment.

      How likely is it really that the breathing “suddenly deteriorated” or that the baby aspirated colostrum?

      Much more likely, on the background of the baby being large and post-dates, the HBMW missed the early signs of deterioration and the meconium aspiration.

      THAT’s why we are discussing this. Quite apart from the triumphalism.

      • Who?
        November 19, 2015 at 9:10 pm #

        I don’t know one end of a baby from another until something falls out, but the chance of a perfectly well anyone suddenly not breathing seems pretty low. I do know that doctors fret about meconium, though.

        The mother is blaming the baby for being sick, or maybe humble bragging about her colostrum production, while everything was perfect for her. Poor little spud.

      • Margo
        November 19, 2015 at 10:32 pm #

        Have I missed something,has it been established there was meconium aspiration, did I miss that bit?

        • Sue
          November 20, 2015 at 12:07 am #

          It’s a presumption – based on the subsequent course. Did you think the colostrum aspiration story had legs?

          • Margo
            November 20, 2015 at 2:24 am #

            Probably not.

    • Gene
      November 19, 2015 at 8:49 pm #

      The lay public reads a post like this much differently that those of us with copious NICU experience do. HFV isn’t blow by. And she just causally suggested ECMO?? It can be a lifesaver, but she obviously has NO IDEA of it’s many many risks!

  9. perpetual lurker
    November 19, 2015 at 6:39 pm #

    Even a mom in the ICU isn’t always enough to break through the cognitive dissonance. I met a mother once in my mommy-baby yoga class who had her 1st baby at home unassisted, then got herself to the hospital when she didn’t pass the placenta “for a while” and then proceeded to hemorrhage so severely that she required 20+ units transfused and a medically-induced coma for 3 days to stabilize. (During which time, incidentally, she obviously was not hanging out with her newborn.) She still described the birth as beautiful and perfect. I think in her mind the 3rd/4th stage of labor was a completely separate event, and completely unrelated to her complete lack of adequate medical management intrapartum.

    • Sue
      November 19, 2015 at 6:43 pm #

      Yep – the need to rationalise one’s own choices can be really powerful.

    • Nick Sanders
      November 19, 2015 at 6:46 pm #

      Who cares if accident victims might have needed that blood, she got to have her birth at home with no stinking doctor around to mess up the magic naturalness, and that’s what’s important, right?

    • Brooke
      November 21, 2015 at 2:30 pm #

      Hemoraging can happen and does happen in hospital deliveries, including to women with no risk factors and there is an increased risk associated with c-sections. But of course, blame the woman and blame her for wanting to see her birth experience as a positive one despite her trauma.

      • Nick Sanders
        November 21, 2015 at 2:44 pm #

        And when it does happen, the doctors are right there to perform treatment immediately, instead of on the other end of an ambulance ride.

      • perpetual lurker
        November 22, 2015 at 11:10 am #

        You miss my point. Yes, women hemorrhage in the hospital. But her chances of having a hemorrhage of this magnitude in these circumstances would have been vastly less in the hospital because of active management of the third stage. No one in a hospital setting would have left a retained placenta in a woman “for a while” without intervention and just waited for things to reach the point where she starts bleeding out and needs 20 units. The fact that she sees her birth as perfect may indeed be a coping mechanism, but also shows a refusal to acknowledge that her poor choices put her own life at risk.

        To borrow from Bofa, people get into car accidents all the time. If they drive drunk, they are more likely to do so. If you have a great night out at the bar, say, meet the love of your life, then drive home drunk and get in a near-fatal crash, you would probably not call that night perfect, no? And you would probably acknowledge after the fact that driving home drunk was probably a bad idea, even though non-drunk people get in accidents too.

      • Amazed
        November 22, 2015 at 2:20 pm #

        Yeah, haemorraging can happen and deos happen in hospital deliveries. However, something else also happens in hospital deliveries… removing the placenta in time. Haemorrages usually being far smaller than this one. But this fact doesn’t contribute to you lining your pockets pretending to be a medical professional, so why bother to mention it, eh Brooke, Protectress of women from vile pain relief?

      • Charybdis
        November 22, 2015 at 9:18 pm #

        Hemorrhaging can and does happen in the hospital, no one is denying that. The hospital is way, way better equipped to deal with it than someone at home. Transfusions are damn near immediately available, medications, and folks who can manually remove the retained placenta if needed. Hell and gone better than sneaking a mother a shot of pitocin, which midwives will do without telling the mother about it. How is that a better standard of care? Not to mention the “tell yourself calmly and firmly, to stop bleeding”, “blow some cinnamon candy breath into her face” and serve her up a lovely slice of fresh placenta to tuck into her cheek to stop the hemorrhaging advice.
        You should be required to opt into a home birth, if that is the end-all, be-all of your existence. It should not be a default option. The dark part of my soul wishes that if a woman desires a home birth, for whatever reason, she should have to sign (and have notarized) a contract/statement saying that she has been told of the risks involved in a home birth and that she will not seek medical treatment during and after birth because she believes her midwife can and will be expected to provide competent and adequate care. And by signing, she absolves the hospital and doctor of any responsibility and participation in her baby’s birth Because if she is truly making an informed decision to have a home birth, she should be held responsible for her actions. And the risks should, rightfully and fairly, be listed for both hospital as well as home birth. As should the positives for each option. Hard data should be used, not the magical, fantastical thinking so prevalent in the NCB world.

  10. KeeperOfTheBooks
    November 19, 2015 at 5:41 pm #

    OT, but wanted to share with people who’d appreciate it.
    The hospital at which I deliver has gone baby-friendly (grrrr) since I last delivered there. Called them today to see what to expect in terms of care. I was a bit worried, as next time around DH won’t be able to room with me–he’ll need to be home taking care of the toddler. Plus, I just don’t want to breastfeed. It was horrible last time, and I’m not willing to risk going through that again.
    Got ahold of a lovely L&D nurse, who said that while they encourage rooming-in for the breastfeeding benefits, they have a 24-hour staffed nursery to which they can take kiddo on my request, and the nursery will be staying. Also, if I want to bottlefeed, just say so at admission, and no questions asked, though if I change my mind I can always request a visit from a lactation consultant. Oh, and they now have a combo-feeding option I can indicate on admission, if that’s something I’d like to do. (Last time around, it was just breast or bottle.) And, in her words, “we always have plenty of bottles, and they’re free on request.” Furthermore, she agreed that the setup the LCs had me do last time was definitely not safe, and not the sort of thing they want to encourage. (It involved DD propped on a pillow under the blankets up against me while we both napped. I was too out of it at the time to realize how stupid that was, but in retrospect…were they nuts?!)
    I nearly cried with relief.

    • Megan
      November 19, 2015 at 6:01 pm #

      I’m so glad to hear that. Good for you for taking the initiative and calling! Are you pregnant now? Did I miss that somehow? If so, congrats!

      • KeeperOfTheBooks
        November 19, 2015 at 6:07 pm #

        Eh, I wasn’t going to mention it for a bit, but I did rather out myself. 9 weeks today. ๐Ÿ™‚ Baby looks awesome on ultrasound, lovely fast heartbeat and very active. Thank you!
        One of my first-trimester symptoms is worrying over minutiae, so when I found myself freaking out yet again this afternoon over how on earth I was supposed to take care of a newborn on my own while recovering and would I have to beat off the IBCLCs with a stick, I thought it was the wiser course of action to call rather than eat the second half of the bag of tortilla chips…

        • Charybdis
          November 19, 2015 at 6:11 pm #

          Congratulations! That has got to be a load off your mind, Now you can start working on your intricate “birth plan” ;P

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 19, 2015 at 6:17 pm #

            Oh, that part’s easy. 1) Follow Awesome OB’s advice. 2) Preferably, finish up with healthy mom and baby. 3) Get lots of newborn snuggles from a fed, content newborn. 4) Eat lots of delicious sushi, chocolate, and decaf lattes while enjoying newborn snuggles with no stress about whether breastfeeding is or isn’t working.
            That about covers it…
            Oh, and 5) Take a shower and change into comfy, pretty PJs as soon as I want to and my nurses are cool with it.

          • Who?
            November 19, 2015 at 9:43 pm #

            perfect.

          • Dr Kitty
            November 20, 2015 at 9:18 am #

            I approve of this plan!
            Congrats and best wishes for smooth sailing from here onwards!

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 20, 2015 at 3:52 pm #

            Thanks!

          • Bombshellrisa
            November 20, 2015 at 12:32 pm #

            This is a really awesome birth and postpartum plan! Congrats on your pregnancy!
            Depending on when you have your baby, a maxi dress (cheap from H&M) might be just as comfy as pjs but much more stylish. Easy to breast feed in and easy to wear if your hospital does newborn pics in room and the parents are in the pics. Just throw a waterfall cardigan in your hospital bag and it’s perfect.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 20, 2015 at 3:52 pm #

            Thanks! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Amazed
          November 19, 2015 at 6:14 pm #

          Congrats! I promise you a treat for the baby shower you might or might not have with this new little one: I’ll translate a folk tale for you. NOT the one about the 25 year old nursing hero, though!

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 19, 2015 at 6:17 pm #

            Oooooooh, I love it! Can’t wait!

        • Chant de la Mer
          November 19, 2015 at 6:42 pm #

          Congratulations, hoping for a healthy little one for you!

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 20, 2015 at 3:56 pm #

            Thanks!

        • D/
          November 19, 2015 at 11:05 pm #

          You’ve *really* made me smile with this news … So happy for you!

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 20, 2015 at 3:54 pm #

            Thank you! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Bugsy
          November 20, 2015 at 6:06 am #

          Yay, Keeper! Congrats!!

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm #

            ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Megan
          November 20, 2015 at 7:43 am #

          So happy for you!! Congrats! FWIW, I have the same worries about my hospital course postpartum.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            November 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm #

            IIRC, you’re a doc, which makes me, very much a layperson, feel a lot better about worrying about that stuff. May your hospital be equally sane!

    • KarenJJ
      November 20, 2015 at 4:20 am #

      Oh that’s fantastic! Something truly baby-friendly whereby mum gets to choose options that work best for her and bub and they can find their feet.

      • KeeperOfTheBooks
        November 20, 2015 at 3:54 pm #

        I know! Radical, eh?

    • The Computer Ate My Nym
      November 20, 2015 at 6:00 am #

      Congratulations and I’m glad the hospital is staying sensible even while following the “baby friendly” fad.

      • KeeperOfTheBooks
        November 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm #

        Me tooooooooo! And thanks. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Bombshellrisa
      November 22, 2015 at 12:08 pm #

      Just thinking about this, make sure you call the postpartum unit and talk to the nurses AND the nurse manager of the unit and make sure that what you heard from L&D is the same on their end. It’s good to have talked before hand anyway, just in case you need to talk to the manager during your stay, you can for them by name.

  11. Sue
    November 19, 2015 at 5:28 pm #

    So many examples of this delusional thinking…sacrificing the baby’s health for the maternal experience, then thinking it’s worthwhile, and all sparkly.

    What are these people THINKING? (OK, I know, I know…)

  12. Margo
    November 19, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

    Isn’t it good that the baby was transferred and got the help it needed. But, hey, let’s slam the woman for having the temerity to choose a venue for birth that was outside of the hospital, let’s do that, because somehow that makes us all feel so much better. Let’s blame the midwife and the woman for having a baby that, darn it, threw a spanner in the works……but hey, I guess it’s not all bad, you guys got to vent a bit more nasty, me too, so everyone is a winner here. Wahoooo.

    • Who?
      November 19, 2015 at 4:59 pm #

      Sure.

      The baby has no say in any of this, and is hardly referenced at all, in fact she’s portrayed as very much a bit player in her mother’s little drama. And now the baby is really sick.

      Mother is fine, no stitches, baby is having significant medical care and intervention the mother previously refused for both of them.

      The mother broke this baby, she owns the problem. Unfortunately, the suffering is all the baby’s. Lucky, in mum’s words, ‘it all went perfectly’. Makes you wonder how bad it would have to be before mum’s experience wasn’t perfect.

      On a personal note, my kids are adults and if either was in icu I’d be devastated. Not this lady though, the baby fed wrong and made herself sick!!! Silly baby.

      Next thing we’ll have complaints about how the chairs in the nicu aren’t comfy enough.

      Save your ‘compassion’ for the sick one.

      • Margo
        November 19, 2015 at 5:32 pm #

        Hmmm,yes ok, but what if the mother was in hospital and what if she had every intervention available, covered all her bases and the baby still was sick post birth, would everyone be so quick to nitpick their way through her account of what happened, I think probably not. Nothing in this Life is guaranteed is it. Of course there are those of us who would say, hey hospital, in view of post dates etc might be a better option, but we still can’t guarantee nothing untoward will happen. I personally don’t believe this woman cares less for her baby and it’s unwellness, we all present and cope in different ways. I just think entering into motherhood these days puts enormous pressure on women to get it right, to make the right choices, Life sometimes takes a different path from the one we might plan. It just seems sad that we, as fellow women, can react so harshly to a, dare I say it, fellowsister. I too, for the record, would be devastated if my kids had ended up in NICU, hell, what am I saying, one of mine did, forty odd years ago, I can still remember the utter sense of helplessness I felt at the time, if on top of that a whole heap of women had said hmmmmm, obviously you brought this on your self, that would have made the situation even more horrid. And, to be brutally honest, whilst I was desparate for my baby to be well I was also concerned about myself, I felt I had survived an experience that changed me to the extent that I didn’t recognise myself. Maybe like me, like countless women, this woman here, is coming to terms with what happened in her own way

        • Charybdis
          November 19, 2015 at 5:51 pm #

          But if she had been in the hospital and had “every intervention available” and the baby still wound up in the NICU, then it would truly be a case of “these things do happen and someone has to be the statistic” and the fact that advanced medical help would have been right onhand, instead of “5 minutes from the hospital”. Plus, whatever the issue is/was *might* have been anticipated, based on decels, meconium contaminated amniotic fluid, GBS positive mother, whatever and NICU team ready and waiting.

          It is more the breeze-brain, la-di-da thinking that is the most maddening. The belief of the utter codswallop that “trusting birth” and “following your own intuiton” will somehow guarantee that you will have the perfect birth and nothing bad will ever happen, because the inner cosmic mama-goddess wisdom of the ages will protect you and your baby as you bring them “earthside” while midwives knit, dolphins attend you in the birth pool and the Vienna Boys Choir serenades you whilst you push a new human being out of your vagina. Sorry, YONI. I hate that term. Makes me think of Yoni Bear (Hey, Boo Boo…what’s in the pick-a-nic basket) or Yoni Berra ( It ain’t over till it’s over).

          • namaste863
            November 19, 2015 at 5:54 pm #

            Do you mean yogi? Isn’t yoni some bullshit term for the female anatomy?

          • Charybdis
            November 19, 2015 at 6:01 pm #

            yeah, but I was trying for a pun. I’ve had a hard day (son with nebulizer treatment, inhalers and steroids for lung issues and the puppy has pinkeye.)

          • Who?
            November 19, 2015 at 6:04 pm #

            Miserable. Hate to ask but is the puppy pinkeye transferable to humans?

            Try to look after yourself in the midst of all that! Hope everyone is much better v soon.

          • Charybdis
            November 19, 2015 at 6:09 pm #

            The vet said it can be. I noticed last night her right eye was a little squinty and this morning it was pretty goopy, so she was going to the vet after I picked up son from school. Son calls me at lunch saying he is coughing and I can hear the wheezing over the phone. His allergies have been giving him a hard time for a few days, so he has been a little congested and coughy. But everything was caught pretty early, so recovery shouldn’t be too bad. I just need to clone myself so I can get everything done.

          • Amazed
            November 20, 2015 at 8:07 am #

            Quick healing to your children, both smooth and furry ones!

          • namaste863
            November 20, 2015 at 1:03 am #

            Good luck and God speed!

          • Medwife
            November 20, 2015 at 12:51 pm #

            I caught pink eye from a kitten once. Exercise extreme caution!

          • LizzieSt
            November 19, 2015 at 7:17 pm #

            Yoni is a real Sanskrit word, meaning vagina or womb. In Hinduism it refers to the divine womb of the goddess Shakti or Devi.

            But, yes, amusingly, crunchy white people (and they are mostly white) like to appropriate aspects of Hinduism, often painfully and hilariously misunderstanding it. I used to get offended by this sort of cultural appropriation, but then realized that was a huge waste of energy. So now I just laugh at it.:)

          • namaste863
            November 20, 2015 at 1:04 am #

            Cool! I didn’t know that, thanks!

          • LizzieSt
            November 20, 2015 at 6:56 am #

            You’re welcome ๐Ÿ™‚

          • demodocus
            November 20, 2015 at 7:45 am #

            The only part of Hindi culture I want to appropriate is their tasty, tasty food. Toddler boy adores the cracker-bread and the naan bread.

          • LizzieSt
            November 20, 2015 at 8:17 am #

            Appropriate away! Few things are better than Indian food. How cool that your toddler loves papadum!

            I should make it clear that I have nothing against cultural appropriation per se. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all. ๐Ÿ™‚ Many Indians love seeing non-Indians in saris.

            It’s just this crunchy take on Hinduism that I can’t stand: “Oh, it’s so egalitarian and matriarchal and cool, not like evil patriarchal Christianity!” Hinduism is a lot of things. Egalitarian is not one of them. See: The story of Rama and Sita.

            And my family’s not even Hindu!

          • demodocus
            November 20, 2015 at 9:02 am #

            I did rather notice. A culture that encouraged widows to jump into the flames of their husband’s pyres is not likely to be matriarchal.

          • LizzieSt
            November 20, 2015 at 9:16 am #

            Indeed not!

            Totally OT: But you all should watch this charming little movie. Cultural appropriation at its best!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzTg7YXuy34

          • Dr Kitty
            November 20, 2015 at 9:13 am #

            I make curry when DH has to carb load before a big run.
            We have curry, and several carbs, usually naan, and rice and poppadoms but sometimes roti or poori or chapattis.

            Kiddo #1 is queen of the beige eaters, so she has plain fried chicken, broccoli, rice and poppadoms.

            She’s old enough to stand beside me and watch me fry the poppadoms (you can buy boxes of ready to cook ones), and really enjoys watching them puff up in the oil. Prawn crackers are a favourite for the same reason.

        • namaste863
          November 19, 2015 at 5:53 pm #

          No one is saying that having the baby in the hospital guarantees that nothing will go wrong. The difference is that in the hospital, if something does go wrong, you’re in a place where there are people, facilities, and equipment on standby to deal with it, and deal with it quickly.

        • Who?
          November 19, 2015 at 6:01 pm #

          Would she then be crowing about how well her birth went? If yes, then yes.

          If no, not.

          I don’t actually care that she gave birth at home, though I wonder how informed (as opposed to ‘informed’) that decision was; what gets up my nose is that the baby’s potentially serious injury is a small sideline in her fab experience.

          She’s backed into the corner of having to be delighted with her experience due to the bad company she is keeping-they will drop her like a hot potato if she starts asking any hard questions. Her situation isn’t enviable, but if I had to choose between a bit of social ostracism and lying in icu through no fault of my own, I know what I’d choose. She can make better friends, she can’t undo the harm to the baby.

        • Amazed
          November 20, 2015 at 8:06 am #

          What if my grandma was a man?

          All this lovely long post missed the point which is, this creature who bred wasn’t in the hospital. The breeder clearly values her ability to pop her crotch fruit (not my definition, it comes from another loving all-natcherel mommeeee) from her crotch more than she values the baby’s health, as shown by her own monstrous post. If she had popped it out in the hospital, she wouldn’t have had the chance to fully show what a glaring narcissist she is because the interventions she so despised probably would have mitigated some of the consequences, so she wouldn’t have sounded quite this bizarre as she worshipped her vagina on bent knee over her little girl’s less than stellar state – THAT’s the only difference.

          • Tiffany Aching
            November 20, 2015 at 9:41 am #

            OT but “What if my grandma was a man?” made me laugh. In (colloquial) French we say “If my aunt had a pair, we would call her uncle” (“si ma tante en avait, on l’appellerait mon oncle”).

        • The Computer Ate My Nym
          November 20, 2015 at 9:45 am #

          what if the mother was in hospital and what if she had every
          intervention available, covered all her bases and the baby still was
          sick post birth, would everyone be so quick to nitpick their way through
          her account of what happened,

          Yep. Except it wouldn’t be us. It would be the obstetrics department, the hospital’s root cause committee, possibly the patient’s lawyers, possibly the ABOG or state health department…If a term baby without any congenital anomaly ends up that sick in the NICU after a hospital birth it will be scrutinized. Which is why this baby was, in fact, the only term baby in the NICU and looked “huge” compared to the others.

    • Chant de la Mer
      November 19, 2015 at 5:15 pm #

      Well if she hadn’t had the temerity to have a baby outside of the hospital, any spanners that baby threw into things would’ve been handled much quicker and likely less injury to the baby.
      My friend did the same thing with the same results and her baby nearly died. If she’d had the baby in the hospital then the likely cause of the pneumonia, GBS infection, would’ve been taken care of with antibiotics before birth. And the second option for cause of pneumonia, aspiration of birthing pool water, would never have happened in the hospital. Prevention is so much better than curing.

      So yeah the mom is at blame for placing her desires over the safety of her child. Thats her choice but I certainly don’t have to approve her choices. It doesn’t make me feel better, in fact I’m feeling pretty awful remembering my friends baby and how terrified we all were that she wouldn’t make it and realizing there is another baby going through the same thing.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa
      November 19, 2015 at 5:22 pm #

      I think there would be a lot less criticism if she didn’t boast about how the birth went “perfectly.”

      When the baby ends up in the NICU, it’s not a perfect birth.

      Of course, that this is criticism is pretty clear, given the title.

      She’s not being criticized merely for choosing homebirth. Just read the title.

    • Sue
      November 19, 2015 at 5:30 pm #

      I guess Margo is not a health care provider, and so has never stuggled to save a sick baby against the odds, knowing that the condition was preventable.

      I’m sure Dr Amy, and many here, feel for the baby as well as the staff stuggling to care for it.

      • Margo
        November 19, 2015 at 5:42 pm #

        Margo is a health provider, Margo has worked to save babies, Margo has had moments of thinking OMG this could have been avoided. I have had desparate moments of thinking why the hell, and if only….
        I just worry that in pursuit of making everyone safe we will end up with no choice. I have worked for nearly forty years as a nurse and a midwife, seen many changes, some good changes and some not so great, in my opinion. All I am saying is I guess, is a little compassion, a little kindness goes a long way, it’s great to have debate and it’s great that we all get so passionate I guess, but nasty and mean is not so good.

        • Amazed
          November 19, 2015 at 5:44 pm #

          Margo is also little Janey’s mommy, I guess?

          Interesting. First, we have someone who repeats Jane’s bullshit word for word, Now, we have (again) a midwife who shares a name with Jane’s midwife mother.

          What a coincidence.

          • Margo
            November 19, 2015 at 9:47 pm #

            ???????????????. I don’t get where you are going with this. I am Jane’s mum as it happens, but I have not repeated Jane’s “Bullshit word for word, “as you suggest. I have stated my own thoughts and feelings here, nothing to do with Jane whatsoever. It is mean sarcastic comments such as yours that I find very challenging, as I really thought this was a place of sharing opinions and respectful dialogue, in your case, apparently not? Why the personal attack?

          • Who?
            November 19, 2015 at 10:17 pm #

            What would ‘respectful’ look like to this mother and her ‘midwife’ though?

            Mother is on about how great it all was, btw baby is not only sick but in intensive care, because she is such a good feeder/because mother is such an awesome milk producer.

            Those docs who weren’t good enough to deliver the baby are good enough to try to patch her up now. I wonder if any respect will be shown to them when all being well baby leaves hospital? Or whether mother will be going on about rescuing the baby from the clutches of the evil doctors, how it was all an excess of caution and false alarm?

          • Margo
            November 19, 2015 at 10:37 pm #

            Let’s hope they appreciate the docs and nurses expertise.

          • Who?
            November 19, 2015 at 10:42 pm #

            Appreciating the live baby is not the same as acknowledging the knowledge and work that went into helping the baby.

            The former is cheap; the latter is respectful.

        • Amy Tuteur, MD
          November 19, 2015 at 6:14 pm #

          We’re not talking about no choice; we’re talking about bad choices.

        • Sue
          November 19, 2015 at 6:15 pm #

          If all that about Margo is true, then Margo appears not to have developed insight.

          This is an obstetrician’s blog, not the mother’s FB page. It’s prefectly reasonable to analyse and discuss the behaviour here.

          • Margo
            November 19, 2015 at 9:50 pm #

            Agreed analyse and discuss, let’s do that.

          • Sue
            November 20, 2015 at 12:09 am #

            Yep. We are analysing and discussing. Exactly that.

        • Who?
          November 19, 2015 at 7:29 pm #

          It depends whether you prize your right to make bad choices more than your right to be safe. For an adult person, absolutely. Have at it. We’ve all done it, but most of us wouldn’t crow about it when someone for whom we are responsible is lying gravely ill in hospital, regardless of how they got there.

          For a tiny defenceless baby, that the adult conjured up and desperately wants? Of course mother still has choice-she is an autonomous being, the child isn’t-but isn’t safe the responsible metric, particularly when the cost to the one with no say is so terribly high?

          Save your compassion on this occasion for the baby in nicu. Mum got everything she wanted, she’s said so.

        • mythsayer
          November 19, 2015 at 9:50 pm #

          REALLY? Choice is better than safety??? I’m all for SOME choice but it’s scary how women ignore the risks of homebirth. Personally, I say go for it as long as you understand. I don’t think most understand though. And also…no one is trying to get rid of homebirth here. Trying to get more qualified midwives and insurance requirements though. That would be great.

          • Margo
            November 19, 2015 at 10:00 pm #

            Yes that would be great, no argument there.

          • KarenJJ
            November 20, 2015 at 4:25 am #

            But sometimes you don’t get that choice. I don’t get the choice of a qualified midwife to attend me at a homebirth paid for by health insurance (or public health system here) because I’m high risk due to previous c-section (and not pregnant anyway so hypothetical).

            I can try and find someone private and pay myself or I can try and labour at home, but I don’t get the option of a qualified midwife paid for me by the government because that’s their policies and procedures. It’s what happens in more regulated and integrated homebirth systems.

        • yugaya
          November 20, 2015 at 4:27 am #

          As in real health care provider?

          “Margo has worked to save babies” You have worked to save as many post term babies like this one (which are all high risk btw) as possible by following all guidelines and recommendations that state how the best way to save this baby from death or injury during childbirth was to

          1) VBAC in a hospital
          2) induce or deliver prior to 42 weeks to avoid risks of post term pregnancy
          3) be examined by specialists and closely monitored after birth.

          I doubt that. Margo has judging by her words “worked to save babies” the same way Tonya Brooks *midwife and brain injury scientist* has been preventing birth brain injury – by delivering babies OOH and placing them at 18x increased risk.

          • Margo
            November 22, 2015 at 1:45 am #

            Worked on babies as a nurse and then as a midwife in a hospital setting, as a midwife employed by the hospital, you really should not jump to conclusions.

          • yugaya
            November 22, 2015 at 4:31 am #

            Worked as actual HCP with actual babies with the mindset of “there are too many interventions designed to save lives”? Now there’s a scary thought.

    • Amy Tuteur, MD
      November 19, 2015 at 6:13 pm #

      No, Margo, no one is slamming her for having a homebirth. I was slamming her for insisting that her birth went “perfectly” even though the baby ended up in the NICU. That’s unbelievable narcissism.

    • the wingless one
      November 19, 2015 at 11:45 pm #

      I don’t think anything about this woman, that baby, or this story makes anyone here “feel good.” The only person I see here who seems to “feel good” about a sick baby in the NICU is the mother. So I guess she’s the only winner.

  13. RaineyDay
    November 19, 2015 at 4:21 pm #

    Not arguing with anyone. But I did have a vaginal birth after a c-section, and it was a completely different experience. I’m thankful everyone was safe. I was in a hospital with a doctor who believed in VBACs. He was old school, but he was also fascinated by the placenta. He showed me the two sides and what was attached where and he explain the difference in a placenta that was from a well nourished mom and one who did not eat well. Maybe it was BS but I found it to be quite interesting. My son was also 42 weeks, but they would not have let me go any longer.

    • Roadstergal
      November 19, 2015 at 4:25 pm #

      Placentas _are_ fascinating!

      It’s one thing to look over them with great interest, particularly with a medical professional giving you a guide, while you’re cuddling your newborn. It’s quite another to give yourself a disaster HB and have your sick baby in the NICU, and your priority is “My placenta was fine, all of the people warning me about the added risks of post-dates in a HB setting were wrong! Nyah!”

    • Anna
      November 20, 2015 at 7:40 am #

      You see, you wanted a VBAC and you made a reasonable decision. You went to a hospital, found a Dr who was interested in VBACs, did not wait until post-dates. And your VBAC was successful. What they do is hide at home at 43 weeks, hire a half-educated midwife, then when things get hot they run for the Drs to rescue them. I don’t think anyone is anti-VBAC here as long as it takes place in safe conditions.

    • Medwife
      November 20, 2015 at 12:53 pm #

      I love giving a tour of the placenta! It’s a great opportunity to congratulate people for things like not smoking.

  14. Roadstergal
    November 19, 2015 at 3:46 pm #

    Fully OT, but The Onion has been running some good little bits on birth, BF, etc, and this came up on my feed today:

    http://www.theonion.com/graphic/pros-and-cons-co-sleeping-51870

  15. Michelle
    November 19, 2015 at 2:59 pm #

    While I agree that this mother comes off as narcissistic, I’d be more comfortable bashing her if she had posted something like this a week or two after her baby was born. At one day postpartum, when she hasn’t slept in days and she’s full of hormones, I’d give her the benefit of the doubt. I hope the baby recovers.

    • yugaya
      November 19, 2015 at 3:07 pm #

      What mother is saying = what she has been conditioned to say about her birth in that group. The same group that cheered her on to have a high risk post term HBAC.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa
      November 19, 2015 at 3:48 pm #

      Who in the blazes, immediately after the baby is born, talks about the condition of the placenta?

      In a time of stress, I can see being messed up overstating or understating the condition of the baby. I don’t expect coherence in that. But to talk about the placenta? Who does that? But see, that’s what’s on her mind because that’s what this is about to her. These are the issues that are encompassing her thoughts this whole time, not the baby.

      • AirPlant
        November 19, 2015 at 3:50 pm #

        Be fair, my friend gave birth and the first thing she told me before I even got to glimpse a tiny baby was that the OB thought her placenta was cool and freaking kept trying to show her.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa
          November 19, 2015 at 3:51 pm #

          Yeah, she’s talking about the OB.

          And she thinks it was weird because the OB was trying to show her the placenta.

  16. Mer
    November 19, 2015 at 2:44 pm #

    Same thing happened at my friends home birth. It was a HBAC, and the baby got really sick with pneumonia and ended up in NICU for three days and was only released because the family lived two blocks away from the hospital and could come back twice a day for IV antibiotics for another 5 days. Turns out mom was GBS positive and wasn’t treated for it during labor, and the neonatologist was certain that was the cause but mom was sure it was something else. No idea what else she thought it could be but it was something else. Oh and the baby was born in a pool, so I guess it could’ve aspirated nasty birth pool water. They also claim their baby was saved because the midwife recognized a problem and insisted that the ER keep the baby and treat. Sigh.

    • Roadstergal
      November 19, 2015 at 2:58 pm #

      Obviously, the infection was caused by living two blocks from the hospital. Those hospitals, man, they’ll wreak havoc with any Perfect Birth Plan.

      • Chant de la Mer
        November 19, 2015 at 3:02 pm #

        Oh yes, you’re probably right. Those hospitals are so toxic!

  17. demodocus
    November 19, 2015 at 2:39 pm #

    It’s considered rude in my culture to discuss one’s genitalia and certain other organs in public, much less brag about them.

  18. yentavegan
    November 19, 2015 at 2:05 pm #

    Talk about risk taking!! I thought good midwives risk mother’s out for post dates and I thought good midwives have a cut off hour for how long a mother can be in labor before transferring care…

    • namaste863
      November 19, 2015 at 2:36 pm #

      I’m beginning to think that to these people the baby clawing it’s way out of the mom’s abdomen like the creature in Alien would be called a “Variation of normal.”

      • AirPlant
        November 19, 2015 at 2:38 pm #

        Nah, not enough vagina.

      • kilda
        November 19, 2015 at 3:26 pm #

        actually I think that’s basically what they think a C section is like.

      • Nick Sanders
        November 19, 2015 at 4:00 pm #

        Oh man, that reminded me of this one Romero zombie movie where a woman was pregnant with a fetus that died and zombified in utero. It was damn freaky. There were CGI scenes of it pressing it’s hands and face against her stomach, trying to get out.

        • namaste863
          November 20, 2015 at 2:01 am #

          I’m pretty sure I saw that bit on Bravo’s 100 scariest movie moments.

      • Sarah
        November 20, 2015 at 3:17 am #

        Nah, only if it had clawed out of the mother’s vagina. No abdomen births, ever!

  19. LizzieSt
    November 19, 2015 at 1:57 pm #

    Natural-childbirth-at-any-price advocates are no better than anti-vaccination advocates.There, I said it!

    Think about it: A long time ago, infectious diseases like polio, smallpox, influenza, and whooping cough killed thousands (or millions) of people, including many children. Likewise, childbirth killed thousands of women and thousands more babies. Then scientists developed vaccines, saving those millions of children and adults from painful deaths. And obstetrics improved vastly, saving the lives of thousands of women and babies in birth.

    Death by diphtheria used to be a sad but accepted fact of life. So was a mother’s death in childbirth. Now, in developed countries, both have become rare tragedies.

    We have forgotten how terrible things used to be. When you don’t know anyone who has been paralyzed from polio, you can be lulled into thinking that it and other diseases are really not so bad. And really, the thinking goes, isn’t overwhelming your baby’s tiny little immune system with scary shots too dangerous a risk to take? So much more dangerous than the risk of a long-ago disease that, to your average first-worlder, is practically hypothetical (until it’s not)?

    We have forgotten how dangerous childbirth is, too. We are so accustomed to modern obstetrics, to hi-tech NICUs, that we take these things for granted. They allow us to pretend that childbirth is safe because we don’t remember a time when women wrote wills while pregnant. A time when the death of a baby was not an unimaginable tragedy. In Ancient Rome, babies weren’t even given names until they were about a week old, because so many died in that first week. Now we have huge, celebratory baby showers announcing “Welcome Baby William!” long before baby William is even born (Such an event horrifies my superstitious Greek soul). We begin to think that we don’t need the interventions, the expertise, the doctors that have saved so many lives.

    So we forget. What will it take to remind us?

    • namaste863
      November 19, 2015 at 2:36 pm #

      The parallels are uncanny, aren’t they?

    • Megan
      November 19, 2015 at 3:15 pm #

      Yes! I’ve said it before: Modern obstetrics and vaccines are both victims of their own success.

    • seekingbalance
      November 19, 2015 at 3:38 pm #

      you’re right on. my husband and I updated our wills before each of our children was born, recognizing that childbirth–even today–carries risk. and I was having a perfectly ordinary pregnancy without any known medical problems for myself or the baby each time. the hubris and arrogance of thinking that bad things only happen to other people are luxuries that belong only to those who’ve never been touched closely by tragedy–or those who continue to harbor delusions in spite of the evidence around them…. I sometimes envy their naรฏvetรฉ. but not really….

      • The Bofa on the Sofa
        November 19, 2015 at 3:50 pm #

        We didn’t do the wills, but we both got life insurance before our first. We have wills now

      • Bombshellrisa
        November 19, 2015 at 10:04 pm #

        Living trust here, and durable power of attorney. Just in case it wasn’t death but disability or incapacitation.

        • seekingbalance
          November 19, 2015 at 11:06 pm #

          yup, we did the POA and all those conversations about what I would want if XYZ terrible scenario unfolded too…. sobering but reassuring to know that we had things in place and knew each others’ wishes…. because being practical and responsible is what grown-ups do, even when it’s not self-congratulatory and glamorous!

  20. Trixie
    November 19, 2015 at 1:19 pm #

    This disaster brought to you by the geniuses on Meg Heket and Ruth Rodley’s HBAC Facebook group.

    • yugaya
      November 19, 2015 at 2:48 pm #

      Well according to Ruth Rodley, this birth was perfect. Remember, her idea of a “hiccup” problem in homebirth is when a baby dies.

  21. the wingless one
    November 19, 2015 at 12:36 pm #

    I just don’t even have the words anymore for women like these. It makes me sad that they are raising children. When does what’s good for the baby start to matter? Clearly not at birth. My son was in the NICU for three weeks and I met many other NICU mom’s, none of us bragged about how our births went “so perfectly.” Mostly we all talked about how lucky we were.

  22. Mel
    November 19, 2015 at 12:34 pm #

    How often do newborns aspire enough breast milk to cause pneumonia two hours after birth? I’ve never heard of that before.

    We’ve have calves develop pneumonia from infections acquired during labor;we’ve had pneumonia from tube feedings where the tube was placed in the trachea instead of the esophagus.

    We’ve had calves that eat in such a vigorous and uncoordinated way from a bottle that I’m covered in drops of calf formula from my chest to my feet and there are splashes on the walls of the pen and the calf looks like I dunked its head in a bucket of milk. Those ones don’t develop pneumonia, though.

    • AirPlant
      November 19, 2015 at 1:58 pm #

      This is just a theory, but I figure her insistence that aspirated breastmilk is at fault is due mostly to her wanting to insist that the problem was in no way cause by her birth choices. The baby was just fine, and in fact fed vigorously, it was just that he loved the boob too much!

      • Sarah
        November 19, 2015 at 3:46 pm #

        She should’ve gone straight to formula.

    • mostlyclueless
      November 19, 2015 at 2:00 pm #

      No but this baby couldn’t have acquired an infection during labor because her mom gave birth at home. Infections don’t happen at home! DUH! If mom had labored at the hospital, where monitoring and antibiotics are both freely available, then the baby would REALLY have been in trouble.

      • Mel
        November 19, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

        Ah! I missed that connection ๐Ÿ™‚

  23. Amy M
    November 19, 2015 at 12:09 pm #

    I imagine, in cases like this, that the mom either doesn’t understand what is going on with the baby, and/or doesn’t want to see anything negative, because then she’d have to wonder if she could have prevented this somehow. Much easier to decide that baby inhaled a little breastmilk than accept that maybe an infection could have been prevented, maybe by having GBS testing/abx, or going to the hospital at some point long before 50hrs. (that last might not be fair, it isn’t clear if she was in labor that long, or just awake that long). Of course, the baby could have developed an infection in the hospital too, but at least then there would be a team of trained professionals to deal with it promptly.

    • Michele
      November 19, 2015 at 12:11 pm #

      Isn’t breastmilk supposed to heal everything?!!1!!one!
      I’m sure if you get your baby to inhale a little breastmilk it cures pneumonia, right?

      • AirPlant
        November 19, 2015 at 1:29 pm #

        So much for breastmilk’s natural antibacterial properties…

  24. AllieFoyle
    November 19, 2015 at 11:29 am #

    I do hope the baby is ok, but it does read a little immature or narcissistic or something.

    Also, “didn’t have stitches” I believe, “didn’t need stitches” I’m not so sure about.

    • nomofear
      November 19, 2015 at 6:01 pm #

      Yep, I was lucky and got them six days later when I went to the er for mastitis after I delivered my first at a freestanding birth center. Lucky that they were still able to do them, that is. I was deep in the woo, and still consider myself in recovery….

      • mythsayer
        November 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm #

        My friend had her baby at UCSD’s birthing center, with CNM’s (attached to the hospital thank god) and she tore and they didn’t explain to her what kind of tear she had. They just asked her whether she wanted stitches or not so she said no. Found out later she should’ve gotten them and now she’s “deformed” a bit down there. I just think it’s heinous that actual nurses wouldn’t explain something like that and actually RECOMMEND stitches (because she needed them). So yeah…I believe you needing them days later.

  25. Zoey
    November 19, 2015 at 11:27 am #

    If those screen shots are in chronological order, then the first post is a pretty strange birth announcement. I always assumed it was customary to share information about the health of your baby in a birth announcement, and not brag about how awesome your placenta is and not mention the baby at all, but what do I know?

    • areawomanpdx
      November 19, 2015 at 11:29 am #

      The whole point of that was to say, “Screw you medical establishment who says the placenta starts to fail post dates. I’m right and you’re wrong, nahnahnahnahnahna.” Not gonna mention that I never had a first trimester ultrasound to confirm dates…

      • Zoey
        November 19, 2015 at 11:32 am #

        Yeah. I suppose it is the HBAC, UBAC, FBAC etc. group. It’s like its own little alternate reality.

        • MaineJen
          November 19, 2015 at 2:51 pm #

          What is an FBAC?

          • AirPlant
            November 19, 2015 at 2:52 pm #

            Facepalm birth after Cesarean?

          • Gatita
            November 19, 2015 at 3:20 pm #

            I can’t believe I know this but it means Freebirth after CS, aka unassisted homebirth.

          • MaineJen
            November 19, 2015 at 3:34 pm #

            Oh wow. That should not have its own acronym.

          • Roadstergal
            November 19, 2015 at 3:38 pm #

            What’s the difference between FBAC and UBAC?

          • Gatita
            November 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm #

            That I don’t know. I’m not sure there is a difference. ETA: Just googled and yep, they mean the same thing.

          • GuestWho
            November 19, 2015 at 3:49 pm #

            Labeling most likely. As a bisexual woman I am qualified to note that people go a little weird over labels, the prime example being women who bend over six ways from Saturday to find a label for their orientation that is not bisexual.

          • Roadstergal
            November 19, 2015 at 3:52 pm #

            But I’m bisexual in a non-equivalent way where a romantic connection facilitates sexual attraction to a woman but is unnecessary/can hinder it towards a man, so I’m not sure ‘bisexual’ is…

            Okay, okay, I gotcha. :p

          • GuestWho
            November 19, 2015 at 4:37 pm #

            I think every one of us has gone on a date with someone which begins in a ten minute detailing of the intricacies of orientation. The part of me that is good liberal says “sexuality is complicated and personal and its a spectrum and you have to let people speak their truth in this world” and the other part just wants to deadpan “So are we going to fuck or not?”

          • Who?
            November 19, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

            I am all for letting people speak their truth but when they are boring you to death-v patient of you to listen for 10 minutes btw-it is fair enough to change the subject. And your deadpan would do that.

          • GuestWho
            November 19, 2015 at 5:08 pm #

            If you are on a date it makes a little sense to do the details of your orientation, but when it gets too navel gazey I just can’t any more. At some point if you have an attraction to both men and women you don’t need to screw around, a word already exists for that. I am very happy that you are open to relationships with trans people and that your primary attraction is to genderqueer women and it is great that you wish there was a word that described an attraction to people who defy the binary, but ffs, we are on a date. I really only care whether or not you are attracted to me. You are making it weird, can we talk about cats now?

          • DelphiniumFalcon
            November 25, 2015 at 2:18 pm #

            I’m boring. I’m a straight woman that’s a “0” on the Kinsey scale. The only interesting part is that it’s probably only a “0” because my husband came along and bumped it up from an “X.”

          • PeggySue
            November 19, 2015 at 5:38 pm #

            And if the deadpan didn’t work it would be A Big Red Flag. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Roadstergal
            November 19, 2015 at 7:37 pm #

            Honestly, most of those conversations have been campfire/beer-time with my friends. My dates have generally been more like “Here’s my anatomy, this is what I like to do – is that compatible with what you have?” Which allows “Okay, let’s call it quits” or “Let’s go have fun.” I save my dinner dates and longer conversations for FWB or the like where I know it’s not going to be wasted time… I’m a bit horrible.

          • GuestWho
            November 20, 2015 at 9:40 am #

            Online dating is the literal worst sometimes.

    • Rita Rippetoe
      November 19, 2015 at 11:33 am #

      I think the talk about the placenta is a “nyah, nyah” directed at those
      who would have advised against letting the pregnancy go to 42+ weeks,
      since one of the reasons to avoid post term delivery is the possibility
      that the placenta will deteriorate and stop giving the fetus proper
      nourishment.

      • EmbraceYourInnerCrone
        November 19, 2015 at 12:16 pm #

        It just sounds so childish, “I did something against medical advise, that had extra risks for me AND my baby! And nothing bad happen! Winning!! and my placenta was awesome!”

        Its like saying” I drove home drunk! on New Years Eve! With my kid in the car AND it was snowing! And we didn’t wreck ! WINNING” Yeah you got lucky, except your baby wasn’t so lucky…

        • Roadstergal
          November 19, 2015 at 1:43 pm #

          This one sounds more like “I drove home drunk, and the carseat looks beautiful!” With an update later to the effect that the baby is in the hospital with severe bleeding from all of the cuts from the shattered windows and suspected head trauma, but you didn’t need stiches and it was a poorly illuminated pole, that’s why you hit it (any sober woman would have hit it). And yeah, you’re sore, but recovery will be super easy!

          • yugaya
            November 19, 2015 at 4:16 pm #

            That’s a perfect analogy.

      • Sue
        November 20, 2015 at 12:15 am #

        Yes, Rita – I think you are spot on. She’s gloating about her wonderful placenta – “I showed ’em” – rather than worrying about her sick newborn.

    • Trixie
      November 19, 2015 at 1:19 pm #

      Not on that forum. The whole point is whether or not your vagina expels a baby.

    • Roadstergal
      November 19, 2015 at 2:05 pm #

      BTW, I’m _sure_ that her comment about the healthiness of the placenta was based on the expert opinions of a medical professional and a pathologist.

      • Zoey
        November 19, 2015 at 2:08 pm #

        Obviously. A CPM is totes a medical professional.

      • FrequentFlyer
        November 19, 2015 at 2:55 pm #

        If it was checked by anyone, it wae probably well known expert on everything and friend of this blog, Ima Frawde.

        • DelphiniumFalcon
          November 25, 2015 at 2:19 pm #

          It was probably checked for consistency before being blended up to be made into pills or eaten. Ew.

      • yugaya
        November 19, 2015 at 4:15 pm #

        It was checked by her expert midwives, the same ones who attended post term HBAC and saw nothing wrong with that either.

  26. RaineyDay
    November 19, 2015 at 11:09 am #

    what would have been done differently in the hospital?

    • PrimaryCareDoc
      November 19, 2015 at 11:12 am #

      Possibly the proper testing and treatment for GBS?

      • Amy M
        November 19, 2015 at 12:02 pm #

        Was this woman in the US? My understanding is that in the UK, they don’t routinely test for GBS, so if she was there, that might not have occurred anyway. However, she would have had the trained personnel and NICU available, which is the whole point of hospital birth, really.

        • Green Fish
          November 19, 2015 at 2:57 pm #

          It was in New Zealand, I believe.

          • Amy M
            November 19, 2015 at 3:16 pm #

            Do they do routine GBS testing there?

          • Dr Kitty
            November 19, 2015 at 6:01 pm #

            Which explains why Margo is back…

    • Krista
      November 19, 2015 at 11:42 am #

      a team of RTs would have been present and the NICU would have been down the hall.

    • MrsFre
      November 19, 2015 at 12:30 pm #

      I can tell you – I had a nearly identical experience a month ago, but I was in the hospital. I had a relatively easy pregnancy and had tested negative for GBS. I went into spontaneous labor at 39+5. My labor and delivery were uncomplicated. I progressed fairly slowly, but they never put me on pitocin as baby had a few heart rate dips (that went away by the time I was in transition, so he was showing no signs of distress). However, he was born completely blue and not breathing. He was placed on my stomach, my husband cut the cord, and not 15 seconds later there was a team of NICU nurses and a respiratory therapist in the room attempting to resuscitate him. It was the most frightening experience of my life to be sitting on a bed, helpless, as I waited desperately for my sweet little boy to cry. He had an APGAR score of 3 at 1 minute, 5 at 5 minutes. It took him nearly 10 minutes to start breathing and even then his oxygen saturation levels were scarily low. He was immediately put on supplemental oxygen and taken to the NICU, where he was diagnosed with fluid in his lungs that could have been an infection – my water had been broken for 16 hours at that point. It turned out that he did not have an infection and he was diagnosed with TTN ultimately, and came home with us a day after I was discharged, when he had been breathing room air for 24 hours. My baby would not have survived the wait for an ambulance, or if he had he would have been severely brain injured from the lack of oxygen.

      • Mel
        November 19, 2015 at 12:36 pm #

        I am so, so glad you were at the hospital.

        • MrsFre
          November 19, 2015 at 12:43 pm #

          As am I!! I had a few friends do home births a couple years before I got pregnant and I looked into and seriously considered them for about two seconds until I found this blog. (Second result on the google search) I’ve been reading it almost daily since and completely convinced I wanted a hospital birth!

  27. The Computer Ate My Nym
    November 19, 2015 at 10:58 am #

    Let me guess: No testing for group B strep?

  28. ArmyChick
    November 19, 2015 at 10:41 am #

    Once again it’s all about what she accomplished: to get a baby out of her vagina. Because who cares about the baby?

    • Roadstergal
      November 19, 2015 at 1:46 pm #

      “Still in amazement that this lovely bonnie girl came out of my vagina!”

      Still in amazement that this matters.

    • kilda
      November 19, 2015 at 2:23 pm #

      of course they care about the baby. You know, it’s that thing, that goes through the vagina.

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