Zika virus tragedy offers a history lesson for anti-vaxxers

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Brazil is experiencing a massive increase in a rare, devastating birth defect.

The journal Science notes:

Brazil is facing a disturbing spike in a severe birth defect called microcephaly. Babies are born with heads that are far too small, a sign that the brain failed to fully develop. Doctors there have reported nearly 3000 cases since July 2015—more than 20 times the usual rate. Scientists are scrambling to understand what is going on. The leading theory so far is that the condition is caused by a little known mosquito-borne virus called Zika that surfaced in Brazil in March and is quickly spreading through Latin America…

What is microcephaly? The CDC updated its page on microcephaly only last week:

[pullquote align=”right” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]The developing Zika crisis gives us a window into what the crises of smallpox, diphtheria, polio, rubella and other diseases were all about.[/pullquote]

Babies with microcephaly can have a range of other problems, depending on how severe their microcephaly is. Microcephaly has been linked with the following problems:

Seizures
Developmental delay, such as problems with speech or other developmental milestones (like sitting, standing, and walking)
Intellectual disability (decreased ability to learn and function in daily life)
Problems with movement and balance
Feeding problems, such as difficulty swallowing
Hearing loss
Vision problems

Zika virus is a flavivirus related to the viruses that cause yellow fever and dengue. It was identified 70 years ago in the Zika jungle of Uganda, and is spread by mosquitos. Until recently, it caused few outbreaks among humans. It hasn’t been definitively established as the cause of the epidemic of microcephaly in Brazil, but there is considerable evidence pointing in that direction; the working hypothesis is that infection of pregnant women in the first trimester can lead to microcephaly. At the moment there is no treatment for it and no vaccine.

It is devastating, it is spreading, and it is cause for alarm for pregnant women and anyone who cares about and for them … and it offers a history lesson for anti-vaxxers.

The anti-vax movement rests on several fundamental premises:

Vaccine preventable illnesses were prevalent because of poor sanitation.
They weren’t that bad.
Natural immunity to disease is preferable to vaccine induced immunity.
Vaccines cause more health problems than they prevent.
Vaccines exist just to enrich pharmaceutical companies.

The developing Zika crisis gives us a window into what the crises of smallpox, diphtheria, polio, rubella and other diseases were all about: devastating diseases, easily transmissible, with no effective treatment and no way to prevent them.

Are you afraid of Zika virus as it heads to the US? That’s how parents felt about smallpox, diphtheria, polio and other diseases a century ago. They could strike any child, at any time, and permanently maim or kill the child. Those diseases were bad, very bad, just like Zika induced microcephaly.

Do you think sanitation is going to protect you from Zika virus? You shouldn’t unless you think sanitation is going to protect you from mosquito bites. Parents in the early 1900’s knew that sanitation was not going to protect their children from smallpox, diphtheria or polio, either.

Do you think we should just let everyone get infected because natural immunity is better than anything a vaccine could produce? Are you willing to risk the health of your unborn babies rather than try to create a vaccine to protect them? Parents in the early 1900’s weren’t willing to gamble, either.

If a safe vaccine could be developed, would you refuse it and take your chances with Zika virus? Probably not, right?

Do you think that Zika virus induced microcephaly is a minor problem being hyped solely for the benefits of the pharmaceutical companies that will ultimately produce a vaccine? No? Then perhaps you can understand why a century ago parents didn’t feel that way about smallpox, diphtheria or polio.

We are watching a viral scourge unfold in real time. I have no doubt that we will eventually develop a vaccine for Zika. We’ve done it many times before; there’s no reason we can’t do it again. And I have no doubt that if vaccination for Zika virus becomes routine in order to protect the health of future generations, there will eventually be anti-vaxxers wailing that the vaccine is unnecessary, that the disease is caused by poor sanitation, that “natural” immunity is better than vaccine induced immunity and that microcephaly isn’t really that bad at all.

In the meantime anti-vaxxers might want to consider that their fundamental premises, which don’t apply to Zika virus, don’t apply to other vaccine preventable diseases, either.

2,071 Responses to “Zika virus tragedy offers a history lesson for anti-vaxxers”

  1. rattrap22
    May 14, 2018 at 10:49 pm #

    Zika has been around for 70 years in 1947 it was patented by The Rockefeller Foundation.Two recent events should have drawn attention to the “humanity loving elites” a flu pandemic that started in South America not Europe and an African Zika virus with modified structure …which even though studied intensely the WHO couldn’t tell us the systems and properties right away.We have all heard the speeches where Bill Gates tells us we will be forced medicated by his loving genetic material carrying mosquitos.Viruses usually dont travel well across the equator but the Zika sure did break out fast…hhhmmmmmm

  2. Nick Sanders
    September 14, 2016 at 1:36 pm #

    It’s interesting to watch to conspiracy theorists with incompatible delusions argue about which of them is awake and which is the sheep. Does anyone else want popcorn?

  3. me
    August 1, 2016 at 4:20 pm #

    it also shows that a travel ban could have helped

    The Obama administration is more worried about giving the mosquitoes jobs and hugs

    • MaineJen
      August 1, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

      A travel ban to the country that is about to host the Olympics? Yeah, that would have worked out great.

      • me
        August 1, 2016 at 4:50 pm #

        yes it would have stopped the spread into the USA

        I will be boycotting the Olympics this year

        I will not be watching a single second

        • MaineJen
          August 1, 2016 at 4:51 pm #

          How *do* you enforce a travel ban on mosquitos? Demand to see their tiny passports?

          • me
            August 1, 2016 at 4:52 pm #

            lolol have nothing but you have to say something

          • Roadstergal
            August 1, 2016 at 5:47 pm #

            Mosquitos suck.

          • guest
            August 1, 2016 at 7:06 pm #

            Build a giant mosquito net and make them pay for it!

      • guest
        August 1, 2016 at 7:07 pm #

        You are aware that a travel ban would mean no imports/exports, yes? Have you looked at how our food supply would be affected by that? Medical supplies to other countries? How many people would be out of a job if the US instituted a complete travel ban?

    • The Computer Ate My Nym
      August 1, 2016 at 5:35 pm #

      So you want a travel ban to the US then? Zika mosquitoes have appeared in Florida. Due to global warming, not human travel.

      • me
        August 1, 2016 at 6:53 pm #

        From what i have read the ppl have brought it here
        Then a local mosquitoes bites them and spreads it

        It would not be here if ppl did not bring it here

        • momofone
          September 15, 2016 at 7:45 pm #

          I would love to see what you have read. Would you mind sharing your sources?

    • TonesOfLife
      September 14, 2016 at 1:16 am #

      So Zika has been around for 70 years and only recently linked to microcephaly and other birth defects?

      http://www.who.int/emergencies
      http://www.foxnews.com/health/

      While larvicide (insect fetus growth inhibitor) has only been tested in Brazil for the last 2 years:

      http://www.techtimes.com/artic

      I’m guessing growth defects are caused by the ladder.

      Wake up! It is a scam for 1.1 billion tax payer dollars..They will
      continue to spray Miami and other citizens with poison in the fight to
      control mosquitoes and scare us until they get their money. And then, it will all disappear. Except the affects of the poison.

      • me
        September 14, 2016 at 12:39 pm #

        first you should ask

        How did it get to the USA?
        Someone went to another country and brought it back. In the past they banned travel to countries with infectious diseases which protected the people from patient number 0

        However in today’s PC world protecting the people is dead last in priorities.
        Being a selfish prick is how most people in the USA are today.

        • TonesOfLife
          September 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm #

          It doesn’t matter. It could have always been here and they never had an reason to use it to scare us.

          As stated clearly by many. In general it has no symptoms.

          George Orwell, Kennedy and many since have tried to warn us of the power of our modern societies advances in the wrong hands.

          Watch Kennedy’s speeches before he died (1961 – 1963). There is a sinister force above us. Secret societies. Its not a joke.

          Wake up

        • Azuran
          September 15, 2016 at 6:39 pm #

          Not implementing a travel ban is not a PC things. In today’s world, stopping all form of traffic to an entire country or a part of the world is not something easily done and can have very important economic consequences.
          As it turns out, there has not been any kind of Ebola epidemic in the USA, only a few, quickly controlled isolated cases. So clearly a travel ban was not necessary.

          • me
            September 16, 2016 at 1:09 pm #

            It is 100 Percent PC

            someone somewhere would cry foul and the liberals would jump on-board until they got it then they would blame everyone else

          • Azuran
            September 16, 2016 at 10:37 pm #

            so tell me, should the entire world have just stopped all travelling in or out of south america when the zika epidemic started? You do realize this would probably cause the worst economic recession even, right?
            It’s not PC. Ebola was never a real danger for the USA or any other first world country. There was no need for a travel ban.

          • me
            September 19, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

            tell me doctor putz

            Oh wait you are not a doctor
            I am not a doctor but my dad and many of his friends, my friends are.
            They were scared to death and if they had to take a patient with ebola they would have walked away.

            Ebola is a real danger but thank god it was stopped before it got far

            Zika got to South America from Africa
            It came from south America from south America

            I am sure you have a burger to flip until they replace you with a machine

        • EmbraceYourInnerCrone
          September 16, 2016 at 4:12 pm #

          Mosquitoes get into the US via a variety of methods, for instance the Asian tiger mosquito is thought to have arrived in the US in 1985 in a shipment of tires. That mosquito is one of the ones that transmit West Nile virus. Unless you are going to close off international trade, the arrival of invasive species is impossible to completely prevent.

          Yes overuse of pesticides can be bad, on the other hand we no longer have hundreds or thousands of people in the States dying of malaria every year.

          According to the WHO in 2015 there were 214 million cases of malaria worldwide, and over 400,000 deaths. The mosquito eradication efforts of the late 40s and early 50s did help eliminate the main malaria vector, at least for a while. (yes I realize there are big downsides, I am old enough to remember the trucks that would fill our neighborhood with a fog of pesticide, good times)

          As to travel to countries with infectious diseases, it would help if people traveling (from the U.S. for instance) would be up to date on all their recommended vaccines. One of the worst recent measles outbreaks was amongst the Amish in Ohio, a young man went to the Philippines to do mission work , caught the measles, did not realize it , brought it home and spread it to his unfortunately under vaccinated community. 383 cases.

          • me
            September 19, 2016 at 4:42 pm #

            enjoy your ebola or zika

      • Monkey Professor for a Head
        September 15, 2016 at 7:03 pm #

        Bloody ladders causing growth defects. Typical example of man messing with nature. If we were meant to reach high up things, God would have made us taller.

        • Charybdis
          September 15, 2016 at 7:27 pm #

          What about stepstools?

          • momofone
            September 15, 2016 at 7:44 pm #

            They’re just the innocent-seeming precursor to the ladders. Smaller, cuter, no one thinks about what they REALLY are.

        • TonesOfLife
          September 16, 2016 at 1:40 pm #

          Whats funny is. Logically it works both ways. I could be making fun of the irrationality to assume a poorly done scientific study is enough evidence to make the link which now allows untested poisons to be sprayed in our communities… You know, just as crazy as it would be to blame a ladder.

          Alternatively, it works as I mean it and as you assumed I did.

          Cheers!

          • Azuran
            September 16, 2016 at 2:19 pm #

            Hey, I believe we are all in favour of using less pesticide. The problem is, whatever we do, it’s never to your kind’s liking. We use sterile mosquitoes? OMG GMO GOING TO INJECT US WITH GMO STUFF
            We want to do a vaccine?
            OMG VACCINES TO KILL OFF ALL OF THE POOR PEOPLE

            If you had half a brain, you’d actually see the answer to your question about microcephaly is easy. Zika was indeed around for 70 years. On another continent, where almost everyone was infected at a young age, because the virus was everywhere. So it was unlikely that a pregnant woman would be infected for the first time in her first trimester. It happened, but not at a high enough rate for people to notice the link with birth defect.

            Now in south america, no one has ever been infected, no one is immune, so anyone who is infected is likely to develop zika, and a larger portion of those newly infected people will be pregnant women. The rate of birth defect is the same, but the sharp increase in infected pregnancy woman resulted in a far larger number of birth defect, which made the connection noticeable.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone
            September 16, 2016 at 3:42 pm #

            There’s also similar virus that is pretty much endemic to the U.S. that can cause similar birth defects if caught by a fetus in utero: cytomegalovirus

            http://www.cdc.gov/cmv/overview.html

            Premature birth,
            Liver, lung and spleen problems,
            Small size at birth,
            Small head size, and
            Seizures.

            “Babies born with CMV can have brain, liver, spleen, lung, and growth
            problems. Hearing loss is the most common health problem in babies born
            with congenital CMV infection, which may be detected soon after birth or
            may develop later in childhood.”

        • TonesOfLife
          September 16, 2016 at 1:46 pm #

          What’s funny is either word works to my point.
          Cheers!

  4. spinneywebber
    February 12, 2016 at 2:21 am #

    A report
    from the Argentine doctors’ organisation, Physicians in the
    Crop-Sprayed Towns,[1] challenges the theory that the Zika virus
    epidemic in Brazil is the cause of the increase in the birth defect
    microcephaly among newborns.
    The Physicians commented: “Malformations detected in thousands of
    children from pregnant women living in areas where the Brazilian state
    added Pyriproxyfen to drinking water are not a coincidence, even though
    the Ministry of Health places a direct blame on the Zika virus for this
    damage.”

    Pyriproxyfen is a relatively new introduction to the Brazilian
    environment; the microcephaly increase is a relatively new phenomenon.
    So the larvicide seems a plausible causative factor in microcephaly –
    far more so than GM mosquitoes, which some have blamed for the Zika
    epidemic and thus for the birth defects. There is no sound evidence to
    support the notion promoted by some sources that GM mosquitoes can cause
    Zika, which in turn can cause microcephaly. In fact, out of 404
    confirmed microcephaly cases in Brazil, only 17 (4.2%) tested positive for the Zika virus.

  5. spinneywebber
    February 7, 2016 at 2:35 pm #

    There is no epidemic in Brazil: only 404 cases of microcephaly, and only 17 of them had Zika. In the US there are 25,000 cases of microcephaly per year. It has many causes…
    the truth about the hype that is the Zika virus panic:
    http://www.sott.net/article/311701-Jon-Rappoport-on-The-Corbett-Report-The-truth-about-the-Zika-Virus

  6. Amy Tuteur, MD
    February 2, 2016 at 1:28 pm #

    I have to close the comments because they are crashing the site. Sorry for the inconvenience.

    • Nick Sanders
      February 14, 2016 at 3:26 pm #

      You seem to have left them open, because spinney is still here.

  7. Tony
    February 2, 2016 at 12:06 pm #

    1. Mosquitoes are not just in Brazil, but microcephaly is only in Brazil.
    2. Microcephaly is not associated with Zika for 50 years.
    3. Brazil has NEW vaccination (Tdap) program for pregnant mothers.
    4. Only 2 Brazilian doctors suggested a link (Zika-Micro)

    Not sure I want that vaccine given to my pregnant wife.

  8. GoldFever
    February 2, 2016 at 10:14 am #

    You’re right about (2) things:

    1. “It hasn’t been definitively established as the cause of the epidemic of microcephaly in Brazil” If fact, only (6) cases of microcepahly in Brazil can be aassociated with Zika. Currently the US has 25,0000 new cases of microcephaly per year.

    2. We “anti-vaxxers” , or “free thinkers” depending on your mental state, will definitively be refusing unwarranted, untested, and unconstitutional vaccines. Get used to it, it’s not up for discussion. #MyBodyMyChoice

    • Azuran
      February 2, 2016 at 10:30 am #

      So long as you don’t go around crying when you or your children are put in quarantine during an outbreak or are refused access to certain places and services because your choice is putting other vulnerable people at risk, do whatever you want.

      • GoldFever
        February 2, 2016 at 11:15 am #

        You don’t understand. Many of us don’t accept that refusing vaccines puts others at risk. Nor do we accept that all vaccines are safe and effective. That’s why we don’t put what we consider toxins into our bloodstreams. Nor will we accept or allow forcible quarantines. So feel free to believe whatever the government or the pharmaceutical companies tell you, just stay off my doorstep.

        • Roadstergal
          February 2, 2016 at 11:16 am #

          “That’s why we don’t put what we consider toxins into our bloodstreams”

          Well, you’ll be happy to know that no vaccines are injected into your blood streams.

          And that vaccination prevents actual toxins from getting into your bloodstream.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 11:28 am #

            Thank God you’re not my doctor….do your muscles not contain blood vessels?

        • Sullivan ThePoop
          February 2, 2016 at 11:33 am #

          Your misunderstanding of the situation is no reason to allow you to endanger others.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 11:54 am #

            Back at ya.

          • Sullivan ThePoop
            February 3, 2016 at 2:29 pm #

            Unfortunately that doesn’t work for you because I am educated in this field

          • GoldFever
            February 3, 2016 at 5:13 pm #

            I quiver and yield

          • Sullivan ThePoop
            February 4, 2016 at 11:39 am #

            No need to quiver. Hopefully you will do real investigation and learn the error of your ideas.

          • GoldFever
            February 4, 2016 at 8:38 pm #

            Sage advice for us all.

        • Azuran
          February 2, 2016 at 11:59 am #

          Some things are just not up to personal beliefs. Facts are facts and are not up for you to decide. The truth is that you are putting people in danger, your beliefs are wrong.
          For example, following your logic, I could decide that I don’t believe that speeding in a car is dangerous, nor that seatbelt saves lives. And therefore I should be allowed to drive at whatever speed I want, wherever I want. Without having me or my children have seatbelt. And don’t the police dare give me tickets for this. Nor will I accept them or allow them to pull me over for this. Because it is MY belief. Feel free to believe whatever the government is telling you about safe driving.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 12:10 pm #

            We both believe speeding is dangerous, we don’t both believe vaccines are safe. Some things are up to personal beliefs, like what I am willing to put in my body. The difference between you and I is that you are trying to tell me what I should do with my body, I have a problem with that.

          • Azuran
            February 2, 2016 at 12:17 pm #

            Whether or not god is real is up to personal belief.
            How you raise your kids is up to personal belief.
            Your decision to get an abortion is up to personal belief.
            Your decision to get a vaccine or not is up to personal belief as well.
            But the efficacy and safety of vaccine is not up to your personal belief.
            Vaccine are safe and effective, that is a fact and it has been proven multiple time by science. Your ‘belief’ of their safety is irrelevant, you are simply wrong on that matter.
            You are still free to not get it. But you are taking a risk and putting your life and others life in danger by making that choice. That is a fact, and your ‘belief’ on that matter is worthless. Therefore, you have to face the consequences that come with your choices, such as quarantine and such.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 12:28 pm #

            “Whether or not god is real is up to personal belief.” Not to God it is not. Do you really, honestly believe that?

          • Azuran
            February 2, 2016 at 12:32 pm #

            Until you can show me any scientific proof that he does or does not exist, yes, belief in god is a personal belief.
            But you are just trying to avoid the real point of this conversation: That vaccine have been scientifically proven to be safe and effective. And that your ‘personal belief’ on the matter does not change de truth.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 1:15 pm #

            No, you were displaying relativism….I just believe truth is absolute. Your belief in the safety and effectiveness of all vaccines does not make them so. And I don’t concur that all vaccines have been “proven”. In fact, my studies have shown me that many of them are unsafe, ineffective, and sometimes toxic.

          • Azuran
            February 2, 2016 at 1:26 pm #

            Care to share those studies?

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 1:34 pm #

            Not really, any more than I care to know what you have read. Let’s face it, the information is out there and easily vetted. There’s no “one source” for this. The truth is there for all with the eyes to see it. I think more folks are lead by their political and spiritual world views anyway. But you have to admit….only one of us can be right about this, truth is absolute.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 12:54 pm #

            Wait, wait, what? You have a picture of the cover of Atlas shrugged yet you believe in God? Pick one dude.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 1:03 pm #

            You’re right, she was an atheist…..still wrote a great book, but you could sense her frustration with putting mankind on the throne.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 1:21 pm #

            That’s ridiculous, we can admire Rand’s Libertarianism without adopting her whole world view. I worship Christ, not Rand.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 1:25 pm #

            Jesus and libertarianism are dramatically at odds.
            http://biblehub.com/luke/6-30.htm

        • Nick Sanders
          February 2, 2016 at 12:52 pm #

          Look, if you don’t want vaccines, there’s a very simple solution: imitate your idiot hero Galt and go found your own little society away from the rest of us.

          And then enjoy your epidemics, and don’t expect any help.

    • February 2, 2016 at 10:44 am #

      25,000 cases of microcephaly a year represents 1-2 cases per 10,000 births. This figure is pretty consistent with the rate in the UK.

      The rate in Brazil has just shot up to 20 cases per 10,000 births.

      Numbers are useless without relevant context.

      • GoldFever
        February 2, 2016 at 11:07 am #

        Here’s some relevant context:

        1. Brazil uses more pesticides than any other county in the world, some of them banned in 22 other countries.
        2. In late 2014, the Brazilian Ministry of Health announced the introduction of the Tdap vaccine for all pregnant woman in Brazil. This was prior to US licensing, and prior to any tests for safety and effectiveness for pregnant woman.
        3. Genetically engineered mosquitoes were released in 2012 in Brazil to combat dengue fever…courtesy of Oxitec via generous grant money supplied by Bill Gates. The Zika virus outbreak occurred soon after….not an automatic correlation, but worthy of investigation with all the unknown variable surrounding GM.

        • February 2, 2016 at 11:17 am #

          1. If pesticides are found to be relevant, that would indeed be terrible and alarming news. I’ll wait for some evidence of a link to this outbreak.

          2. The exact same vaccine has been used in the UK since July 2014, No microcephaly spike. The vaccine has been used throughout Brazil, the spike is limited to only one small area.

          3. The mosquitoes were released some way away from the main area being affected by microcephaly.

          Here’s some context for you to consider:

          Your mention of Bill Gates as if this is somehow relevant to anything marks you out as someone with only the slimmest grip on reality.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 11:53 am #

            My mention of Bill Gates if very relevant if you dare to grasp the reality of his eugenics pedigree. And Juazeiro is pretty damned close to Penambuco if you’re trying to link Zika to microcephaly.

          • February 2, 2016 at 11:54 am #

            “Eugenics pedigree” = zero grasp on reality

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 12:06 pm #

            “”Eugenics pedigree” = zero grasp on reality” = reflex cognitive dissonance

          • February 2, 2016 at 12:12 pm #

            Using long words that you saw written somewhere else but don’t really understand does not make you appear more intelligent

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 12:51 pm #

            http://funnyand.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/True-Meme.jpg

          • DelphiniumFalcon
            February 2, 2016 at 1:18 pm #

            Stolen

        • Sullivan ThePoop
          February 2, 2016 at 11:32 am #

          The mosquitos that were released are al males. The release close to the outbreak was in 2011. The release in 2015 was far from the area. The TdaP vaccine in the same one used in many countries and has never caused a spike in microcephaly cases. Pesticides should be looked at if they are a type not used safely in other areas that are not effected by the outbreak.

        • Charybdis
          February 2, 2016 at 12:10 pm #

          The TDaP vaccine has been given to pregnant women in their third trimester for years. Years and years, and in numerous countries. There have not been any other spikes of microcephaly attributed to the vaccine. So, nice try.

          The GMO mosquitoes are males and they produce non-viable offspring. Since they are males, they do not bite people and cannot be a disease vector. Female mosquitoes, who DO bite people mate once. Mating with the GMO male produces non-viable offspring, thus reducing the mosquito population without having to resort to pesticides, repellents, etc. Strike two.

          Zika is new to the Americas, so the people don’t have any immunity/resistance built up from years of exposure. So, yes, a new virus is going to run rampant through a vulnerable population (Remember last year when Ebola hit West Africa?) who does not have experience with the infection protocols.

          Zika is a flavivirus, related to Yellow Fever, Dengue Fever and West Nile Virus. These diseases can and do cause microcephaly.

          So, in the entire scheme of things, the vaccine has been proven safe and effective in pregnant women – see the millions and millions of women who receive the TDaP in the third trimester of pregnancy and go on to have non-microcephalic babies. The GMO mosquitoes released to help control the population of Zika (and other mosquito-borne illnesses) are male and do not bite, so they cannot be a disease vector. The females mate once and if they mate with a GMO male, the resulting offspring are non-viable and do not reach adulthood to continue the cycle.
          Zika is a new virus to the Americas, and as such, is the newest variable in a picture that was overall fine until the virus showed up. So yes, it is the hypothesized cause of this whole shebang. Could it be something else? Possibly, but the evidence is strong that the Zika virus is at fault.

          Find Green Fish’s post…s/he did a fabulous job of summarizing the important points in a neat and concise manner.

          There will be a quiz later.

      • Dagfinn Klausen
        February 2, 2016 at 11:10 am #

        Assuming that ultrasound is a normal routine in a pregnancy in UK, USA and most of the Western World – may we assume that a potential mother and father would prefer an abortion, if a birth-defect is expected?

        Knowing that ultrasound and abortion is unavailable to pregnant mothers in Brazil – how would this impact Your statistics?

        Have You thought about this fact?

        • Azuran
          February 2, 2016 at 11:13 am #

          and you think that ‘abortion due to microcephaly’ are not going to be counted towards microcephaly cases?

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 11:17 am #

            Absolutely – if not, it would be fraudulent.

            But, pleas enlighten me. Zika VIrus, microcephaly and abortion have all been around for more than 50-years.

            I gave a potential explaination that, in my mind, makes some sense. Do You have a similar one?

          • February 2, 2016 at 11:53 am #

            Sigh. Mosquito numbers have changed. The climate has changed.

            http://www.vox.com/2016/1/20/10795562/zika-virus-cdc-mosquitoes-birth-defects

            Climate change and globalization may help diseases like Zika spread
            The simplest explanations seem to escape you so you make up ever more complex reason which don’t make any sense.

          • Charybdis
            February 2, 2016 at 12:13 pm #

            But there is a good plan to help reduce the mosquito population, and as a result, reducing ALL mosquito-borne illnesses. The GMO male mosquitoes released to breed with the females and make non-viable offspring. The GMO mosquitoes are male and do not bite people, so they cannot be a disease vector.

            But you don’t like that idea either. WHO recommends using DDT to spray for mosquitoes. How about that idea?

          • Azuran
            February 2, 2016 at 11:53 am #

            I do have some as well. Zika has been around, true, but in africa and Asia. Since the virus was endemic there, most people were infected before they were old enough to be pregnant. So the number if microcephaly cases were lower, because the number of pregnant women getting infected was lower.
            In brazil, it is a totally new disease where no one has immunity, so a huge number of people, including pregnant women, are infected all at once. Causing a huge spike in microcephaly cases that is a lot easier to notice.
            Also, 50 years ago, medicine and technology was far from what it is today. Especially in Africa and Asia. So it’s not surprising that no one would make an association between zika and microcephaly in those country 50 years ago.
            Even today, medical information is hard to obtrain in many parts of the world, were very few people have access to prenatal care or even basic medical care. There are still places in the world were cleft palate is believed to be a sign of demonic possession and people are banned from their village. So of course, getting valid information of microcephaly rates is impossible.

        • February 2, 2016 at 11:14 am #

          It doesn’t affect the statistic of a sudden 20 fold increase in microcephaly at all.

          That was a ridiculous comment

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 11:31 am #

            So, the outbreak, in Your opinion, is definitely not connected to the Zika Virus. It is neither connected to the Tdap vaccine. And now You indicate that some million GMO developed mosquitos have not been released into the nature?

            What about the colorful pictures of the 200.000 army-personnel, that spray the country side with pesticides? Do You suggest they are Photoshopped? They seem quite real to me.

            So, after a good couple of hours, to and from, we are stuck with no clue of what is going on. This I find strange!

          • February 2, 2016 at 11:43 am #

            When did I say Zika wasn’t connected? Are you making stuff up again?

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 11:53 am #

            So, You claim that Zika is connected – but Your own statistics claims otherwise?

            May be I have You all wrong – if so bear with me.

          • February 2, 2016 at 11:55 am #

            No they don’t. That’s you making stuff up.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 12:04 pm #

            This is simpler than You are making it. To avoid confusion; Is, in Your opinion, is Zika connected with microcepahly, or is it not?

            Yor claim, suggesting it should be blamed on the climate, I find quite interesting. If You substantiate it, You will find me being quite impressed.

          • February 2, 2016 at 12:08 pm #

            Now you’re just being deliberately obtuse and are clearly not reading (or understanding) the informative material being presented to you

            Not worthy of any more time. Your point that the vaccine might somehow be to blame has been thoroughly discredited and at the same time you, personally, have been shown to lack sufficient understanding to have anything of merit to add.

          • DelphiniumFalcon
            February 2, 2016 at 12:22 pm #

            Very few things in life can be so easily put into a binary equation.

            Does congenital rubella syndrome cause birth defects? Yes. But under this type of binary logic if one pregnant woman gets infected with rubella in the first trimester and their child does not display the signs and symptoms of congenital rubella syndrome then that would be congenital rubella syndrome causes birth defects as no. However, we know thatsthat’s that’s not true.

            Does rubella cause birth defects? There is an extremely high possibility but I can’t say yes with 100% certainty. That’d be dishonest and warping the truth.

            Zika may end up being the same way. Does it cause microcephaly? Right now the answer is learning more towards being a good possibility of yes but not with a 100% rate of “success” or certainty.

            Life would be easier if everything fit tidily into simple yes or no equations but the universe likes it’s multiple variables.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 12:40 pm #

            Few things in life, are black or white, or yes or now.
            This debate, however, seems to being inflicted with some strange “virus” of exactly this kind.

            About Your claims, that I, personally, find quite reasonable; They seem to just having been countered by WHO, which is of a different opinion than Yours. WHO just deemed Zika Virus, a World Wide threat.

            Myself, I have been of the conviction, that this Zika Virus is just another artificial scare, which is an opinion, that none of this Forums skilled participants, regrettably, have been able to change.

          • Azuran
            February 2, 2016 at 12:45 pm #

            They made it a ‘worldwide threat’ in order to get the international community to help with research, funding and such. Not because they fear it’s going to affect the whole planet.
            They did the same thing with Ebola, and there was never any worry about it going worldwide.

          • DelphiniumFalcon
            February 2, 2016 at 12:52 pm #

            Except this kind of dismissal as an artificial scare is exactly why Ebola blew up in West Africa. People didn’t respond to it like the proper threat if is and allowed it to get a foothold while the health response was it wouldn’t be that big of a deal, Ebola had been around in Centrap Africa for the last forty years and hadnt spread, the risks have been exaggerated, we’ll deal with it if it becomes a problem.

            Well it did become a problem. A big one. And seemed to not get the proper response it deserved until it became a risk to more well off white people. I’d rather not see a similar scenario with Zika when complacency to the risks and sluggish response is the biggest enemy in a disease outbreak.

            The possibility between a link of vaccines and the microcephaly cases appears to be one of the first risk factors investigated. So if it were not the culprit after testing it would be logical to move on to another suspect. Vaccines had not shown the connection to microcephaly that could explain the dramatic increase. To continue to waste resources while the true culprit remains at large and uncontained would be ridiculously irresponsible.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 12:48 pm #

            What the fuck are you on about?

    • Sullivan ThePoop
      February 2, 2016 at 11:28 am #

      No, I cannot get over the fact that you are endangering children because you were misinformed. You don’t have to listen to reason but that doesn’t mean we will stop speaking it

      • GoldFever
        February 2, 2016 at 11:58 am #

        I’m not asking you to stop speaking anything, but what you call reason…I call foolishness. Many of us see vaccines as potentially endangering children, you don’t have to listen to reason either, but that doesn’t mean we will stop speaking it.

        • February 2, 2016 at 12:01 pm #

          A reasonable person has evidence on their side. You don’t have the evidence to support you. Therefore, you are the one without reason.

          Just parroting back “no you’re not speaking reason” is incoherent rambling unless you can explain why the other person is not being reasonable.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 12:14 pm #

            Just holding a mirror, if that bothers you perhaps try a different hair style.

          • February 2, 2016 at 12:21 pm #

            You missed the point: what I complained about was not my reflection, but you thinking you are in a position to hold up a mirror at all.

            Hope the imagery isn’t too confusing for you.

          • GoldFever
            February 2, 2016 at 12:25 pm #

            I’m not confused, you’re scared of your reflection.

        • Sullivan ThePoop
          February 3, 2016 at 2:29 pm #

          I am sorry you cannot see reason

    • Nick Sanders
      February 2, 2016 at 12:46 pm #

      Point one: So, you don’t realizes diseases are tracked as cases per 10,000 people, and not as raw numbers? If the rate goes up, which it has 20 times over in Brazil, that’s what causes concern.

      Point two: You’re not free thinkers. If you were actually thinking, you wouldn’t reject all evidence.

  9. Charybdis
    February 2, 2016 at 9:56 am #

    I heard on the radio this morning that WHO is recommending using DDT to deal with the mosquitoes. I wonder how the Natcheral, WHO-revering woo crowd is dealing with that little tidbit of information.

  10. demodocus
    February 2, 2016 at 8:53 am #

    On the positive side, I am now able to keep DTap and TDaP straight

  11. The Computer Ate My Nym
    February 2, 2016 at 7:31 am #

    Wow. There really do seem to be a wide variety of conspiracies going on here. First we have the old classic, vaccines. It’s the DTP. Or, no, it’s the DTaP. No, it’s specifically the tetanus, diptheria, and pertussis vaccine being given in Brazil during pregnancy. (Sorry, I have completely lost the plot on which of the variants it actually is.) Or maybe it’s the GMO mosquitoes. Or maybe it’s the Rockefellers trying to make money off of the word “zika”. Or at least on people buying the virus. Hard to say exactly what Dag, below, means.

    In short, it’s everyone and everything except the new flavivirus which is infecting the Americas for the first time. Because viruses are completely harmless and introducing a virus into a new population has never done that population any harm. America is a case study for how harmless new diseases are. Nature is good. Especially if you’re a naturopath who makes their money off of “natural” “treatments”.

    • Dagfinn Klausen
      February 2, 2016 at 7:43 am #

      Why not treat Yourself with a couple of Prosac´s, and give it another try? It´s really not that complicated.

      • The Computer Ate My Nym
        February 2, 2016 at 7:53 am #

        See what I mean? Now we’ve got SSRIs involved. (Actually, didn’t someone down thread bring SSRIs up as another suspect?) Really flailing about for any other suspect, as long as it’s “unnatural”. Try cell phones next. They’re an evergreen, like vaccines.

        Also, “you” and variants thereof are not capitalized in English. I take it it is in your first language?

        • Dagfinn Klausen
          February 2, 2016 at 8:01 am #

          Like I said, it is not very complicated.
          “It may not be Zika Virus that gives Brazilian Children their birth defect”.
          Please try harder to search for the facts, instead of using energy on diversions…

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 8:03 am #

            Fine. It may not be the Zika virus. What’s your alternative hypothesis and what is the evidence for that hypothesis? What are the consequences if you are wrong and we ignore Zika?

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 8:11 am #

            Why ignore Zika?
            There is a test for Zika Virus developed in Germany. By making this test mandatory for all pregnant Brazilian women, we may be able to prove any correlation with microcephaly.
            If this suggestion is wrong, I will be thankful for You telling me.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 8:13 am #

            How reliable is the test? What are its false positive and false negative rates? Does it test for the virus or antibody? Does it cross react with dengue or other viruses? What happens when someone was infected with the virus but has cleared it (i.e. can you pick up past infection)?

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 8:20 am #

            These all seems like very good questions. If You follow this link, You may get some, but probably not all, the right answers.
            https://www.rt.com/news/330737-zika-virus-test-germany/

            As the correlation between Tdap and microcephaly seems to be close to 100%, while preliminary results of similar correlation with Zika virus seems to be quite low – do You think WHO should recommend postponing, or use another vaccine, until it can be deemed safe?

          • DaisyGrrl
            February 2, 2016 at 8:24 am #

            The Tdap vaccine is routinely given to pregnant women in other countries without ill effect. There’s already been several discussions in this comment thread about why the Tdap vaccine is almost certainly not the source of the microcephaly cluster seen in Brazil.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 8:29 am #

            Sorry, I have not registered that.
            But I have registered that the mandatory Tdap vaccine in Brazil is new and different from the one used in other countries.
            Your claim does not seem to make any sense to me. Pls help!

          • DaisyGrrl
            February 2, 2016 at 8:44 am #

            The Tdap in Brazil is manufactured in Brazil under license from GSK by a non-profit manufacturer that was set up by the government to facilitate access to quality vaccines. The vaccine used in Brazil goes by the trade name Boostrix and is for all intents and purposes identical to the vaccines produced elsewhere for GSK. Many women around the world receive Boostrix in their third trimester and there has been no link between the vaccine and birth defects.

            For far better explanations, Green Fish and Mariana are commenters in this thread who have fully explained the source of the vaccines and why it is extremely unlikely that the introduction of the vaccine is the source of the birth defects.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 8:54 am #

            Thank You for taking this debate to a serious level. Based on Your feedback, I would like to suggest a theory. If the Tdap Vaccine never was a problem, and the Zika virus never caused a problem – what about the combination?

            By the way, do You have a link to any statistical information and facts about this specific vaccine? Inlet and registered side-effects?

          • February 2, 2016 at 10:27 am #

            Having been caught out on all the numerous errors of fact you’ve been making, you’ve now resorted to just making things up that can’t be immediately disproved.

            Just to be clear about correcting one of your previous errors: Boostrix has been given routinely in the UK to pregnant women since July 2014.

            http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/whooping-cough-vaccination-pregnant.aspx

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 10:42 am #

            Thank You for joining the discussion. Appreciate that.

            But sticking to the facts. There are two different vaccines being distributed in Brazil, that are from two different vendors, and with different content.

            Now You introduce a third one. Is it for the purpose of confusion? If not, please subject to me the content of the UK version, so that it may be compared to the two others, and potentially be proved or disproved.

            Let me also remind You, that we are trying to have a serious debate going here. Making up allegations may be acceptable – if You are capable of backing them up with facts.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            February 2, 2016 at 10:41 am #

            So “OK, maybe it’s Zika but damn it, it STILL has to vaccines!!!!!!”

            That reminds me of the vaccines and autism nonsense. I’ve pointed out in the past that, at least in the beginning, the temporal association of MMR and the onset of autism symptoms warranted an investigation to see if there was a link. And said investigation was carried out, and there was found to be none. Great. Question asked and answered, right?

            Nope, not for anti-vaxxers. Because it always has to be the vaccine, they switched. Well, it’s DTaP. Or Hep B. Or chicken pox. Despite the fact that there is not the nary of a hint that any of these have any association with autism, and, in fact, completely contradict the temporal association that was the basis for blaming MMR, it must be a vaccine, it doesn’t matter whether they contradict themselves (as has happened in this thread).

            Of course, there is still the little problem of how a 3rd trimester vaccine is going to cause an effect that happens in the 2nd trimester, but you know, when it HAS to be the vaccines, such things are never a problem.

          • February 2, 2016 at 10:43 am #

            Excellent point – I’d forgotten the vaccine was delivered relatively late in pregnancy!

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 10:59 am #

            Hey,

            I just got a great idea.
            What about not making the Tdap vaccine mandatory? The pregnant mothers of Brazil could, on an individual basis, decide whether they volunteer for a project, where they accepted to receive, either the Tdap Vaccine or a Placebo?
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial

            Both groups accept to be tested for Zika, scientifically timed, during the Project.

            The cost, in my opinion, should be covered by the producing companies of the Tdap Vaccines, Sanofi Pasteur of France and GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) of the United Kingdom, collectively with Rockefeller Foundation, who, supposedly, owns the rights to the Zika Virus.

            If not, money is already being poured into “fighting Zika” from all WHO loyal Governments of the World!

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 8:27 am #

            So, according to the link, a DNA based test. Which means that it will only show something if there is active viremia. If a woman is infected in the first trimester and clears the virus, it will be negative, no matter whether the virus has damaged the fetus or not. If she is infected in, say, week 4 and tested in week 8, it will also most likely be negative, leading to a false reassurance. An antibody test would be much better for demonstrating a past infection, but the currently available test cross reacts with dengue. Not to mention the continued lack of any statement about false positive/negative rate.

            What is the hazard ratio for receiving versus not receiving the Tdap and having a microcephalic baby? Nearly 100% of women who had microcephalic babies also drank water and breathed oxygen. Perhaps water is the culprit.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 8:34 am #

            Thank You. So no testing, and continue Tdap vaccination is, in Your opinion, the right thing to do.
            And if You are wrong – what will be the consequences?

            Do You have a solution, that You think would be a good one, I would very much like to hear it.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 8:40 am #

            Again, if there is any evidence that the Tdap is the culprit then it is reasonable to consider stopping vaccination. That’s why I asked about the hazard ratio of microcephaly. If there were a HR of, say, 2.5 with a 95% CI of 1.5-3.5 then it would certainly be reasonable to stop vaccination or use another formulation.

            Stopping vaccination is not benign either. Tetanus is a near guarantee of death and not a pretty death at that. Pertussis can be deadly and is certainly nearly always uncomfortable in infants. Diphtheria used to kill a lot of kids. Pregnancy is immunosuppressive and infectious diseases in pregnancy can be dangerous during pregnancy even if the same conditions are mild in a non pregnant adult. It makes sense to ensure that pregnant women are protected.

            Finally, there is the infamous breast milk protection. Breast milk can’t provide passive antibody protection if the mother does not have antibodies against the condition. Again, vaccination to stimulate the immune response and encourage vigorous antibody production makes sense. (Not that breast feeding is a great source of antibodies, but it does provide some.)

            Anyway, all that must be balanced against whatever risk of side effects there might be. What is the evidence that the Tdap is involved in microcephaly? It has been given in multiple other countries without any increase in microcephaly. What mechanism of action could produce microcephaly? What is the epidemiologic evidence that such an association even exists?

          • Roadstergal
            February 2, 2016 at 11:07 am #

            “Breast milk can’t provide passive antibody protection if the mother does not have antibodies against the condition. ”

            It can’t provide passive antibody protection to VPDs, period. These protective IgGs have to be passed through the placenta – in late pregnancy.

          • Roadstergal
            February 2, 2016 at 11:33 am #

            It’s an RNA test, since Zika is an RNA virus. RNA falls apart if you look at it sideways. The quality of a sample will have a substantial effect on your ability to detect the virus.

            And as mentioned above, it’s RUO. So it’s had no evaluation of sensitivity, specificity, stability, LLoQ, LOD, etc.

          • Roadstergal
            February 2, 2016 at 11:32 am #

            That’s an RUO assay.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 11:43 am #

            Strange, It seems different from the mandatory one, used in Brazil. It looks like this.

            Why another shot every pregnancy? Do You have an answer?

          • Roadstergal
            February 2, 2016 at 11:49 am #

            What I provided was a pic of the Zika test that you said should be made mandatory, which is a terrible idea given the type of assay. You don’t seem to know anything about them.

            Protecting baby and mom from tetanus, pertussis, and diphtheria, to answer your question. A booster pumps up specific antibody production.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 11:59 am #

            Sorry, having to do some “Ave Marias”…

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 12:59 pm #

            Why another shot every pregnancy? Do You have an answer?

            Because tetanus kills babies.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 12:58 pm #

            As the correlation between Tdap and microcephaly seems to be close to 100%

            So is the correlation between having a pulse and microcephaly, or eating Brazilian cuisine and microcephaly…

          • Sullivan ThePoop
            February 2, 2016 at 11:35 am #

            It may not be Zika virus, but it is not male mosquitos that were released in 2011 close to the area or male mosquitos released in 2015 far from the area. It is also not a vaccine that has been used safely in pregnant women in many countries for many years and never caused a spike in microecephaly cases.

          • Roadstergal
            February 2, 2016 at 11:37 am #

            They can’t tell the difference between a reasonable, but unproven hypothesis (Zika) and whatever WAG strikes their fancy.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            February 2, 2016 at 11:39 am #

            But it MUST be vaccines.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
            February 2, 2016 at 11:47 am #

            I fully agree. Your claim seems logically probable, and all facts considered, reasonable.

        • Roadstergal
          February 2, 2016 at 11:10 am #

          “Try cell phones next”

          WiFi, too. You could probably find a correlation between WiFi access in Brazil and microcephaly.

      • LibrarianSarah
        February 2, 2016 at 11:09 am #

        Surprise, surprise another antivaxxer outs themself as an ablest bigot. Yup you are so much better than those icky crazy people who need to take medication; you eat organic food.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym
      February 2, 2016 at 8:01 am #

      Also note that despite the temptation to think and/or say otherwise, the anti-vaxxers who have posted do not appear to be stupid or uneducated people. There have been, for example, few spelling or grammatical errors in the various posts, apart from Angela’s abuse of periods, which appears to be more a style than a lack of knowledge about how to use the language. Dagfinn has a few issues in terms of grammar and spelling, but he also doesn’t appear to be a native speaker so I’m inclined to give him credit for knowing English and not disparage him for the occasional usage error.

      I’d say that it all suggests a problem in our science education, but, well, who is “our”? I’m fairly certain Dagfinn is European, Angela is claiming Australian, the osteopath looks to be US-American. It looks like an international problem.

      Again, following the money is useful. Who has a vested interest in making people believe that “allopathic medicine” is dangerous? Perhaps, those who practice other forms of “medicine”? Those who have enough money to bribe the US Congress (among other national legislatures) into passing laws that allow their “medications” to be marketed without being proven safe and effective, perhaps? This whole “you’re a big pharma shill” thing just feels an awful lot like projection at times.

  12. Dagfinn Klausen
    February 2, 2016 at 7:22 am #

    There is now a test for Zika Virus available from Germany. As Tdap vaccine is mandatory for pregnant Women in Brazil, so should this test be, so that any correlation between Zika and microcephaly can be properly documented. If this is not recommended by WHO, we can be quite sure that the vaccine is the suspected cause.

    https://www.rt.com/news/330737-zika-virus-test-germany/

    By the way, is everybody aware that Zika Virus is registered Trademark of Rockefeller Foundation, and is available for sale on Internet?

    https://www.lgcstandards-atcc.org/Products/All/VR-84.aspx?slp=1#history

    What I, personally, expect, is that WHO will recommend mandatory test for all travellers (royalty to Rockefellers), until there is a vaccine for Zika Virus (more royalty), and last but not least, there will be political pressure to allow abortion in Brazil, which today is illegal (population reduction/control). WHO may also suggest Zika is sexually transferrable and ask that people abstain form having sex (population reduction/control). The best of all, is that Brazil will experience lost income from tourism. As Brazil is part of BRICS, this will be an extra, “well deserved”, treat for TPTB…

    • DaisyGrrl
      February 2, 2016 at 8:40 am #

      Claims that the Tdap vaccine is to blame have been thoroughly discussed and dismissed elsewhere in the comments.

      The reason the Rockefeller Foundation is listed as the depositor of the Zika virus samples available for sale is because the virus was first isolated at the Yellow Fever Research Institute, an institute run by the Rockefeller Foundation. That doesn’t mean that they get royalties from every sample of the virus sold (someone with more knowledge of how biological samples work will have to chime in on how this all works financially). While it’s possible they might, they’re definitely playing a long game if that’s the case. The virus was discovered 70 years ago, so anyone involved in the discovery won’t be alive to profit.

      The test you linked to was developed by a company called Genekam, who will be the company that earns money from the sale of the test (not the Rockefeller Foundation). Finally, the company that develops a vaccine will be the one to profit from the sale of the vaccines (very unlikely that the Rockefeller Foundation will develop the vaccine).

      The test for Zika will be very helpful in determining whether there truly is a causal link between the virus and the birth defects. Scientists are still months away from confirming that there is a causative relationship, although there are many reasons to be looking very closely at Zika as a possible cause. Should the link be established, there is no guarantee that anyone will develop a successful vaccine.

      As for the population control theories…wow. The best way to reduce the birthrate seems to be through a combination of higher maternal education levels (and thus earning potential), contraceptive availability, and reducing infant and child mortality (if the kids will likely all live, no need for spare kids to support you in old age). Reducing child and infant mortality are primarily achieved through vaccination, sanitation, and proper nutrition. If population control is the end game, way better to use the methods I describe rather than wait for a virus to appear in a new area and hope you can pin some birth defects on it.

      • Dagfinn Klausen
        February 2, 2016 at 9:00 am #

        I am not sure You are quite right about the Trademark part. I would assume Rockefeller Foundation will collect royalty on a product or product name that they have the rights to.

        And about the rest. It is no secret that there are powerful interests within the “DrugIndustrialComplex” that have an ambition to reduce population of the World. They are actually quite open on this issue.

        If You suggest I am wrong, I recommend a quick research on the issue.

  13. spinneywebber
    February 2, 2016 at 1:13 am #

    Brazil Revises Birth Defect Count in Zika Investigation
    by Associated Press
    “New figures released Wednesday by Brazil’s Health Ministry as part of a probe into the Zika virus have found fewer confirmed cases of a rare brain defect than first feared…
    Six of the 270 confirmed microcephaly cases were found to have the virus.”

    Wow, only 6 cases of microcephaly had Zika.
    Let’s everybody panic and rush into judgement, cause we all know priority #1 is to SPREAD FEAR.

    • Who?
      February 2, 2016 at 1:38 am #

      Oh Slimy, you’re back, spreading fear, and stupidity.

      The usual I see-blah lies, blah drama, blah fairy tales. Blah, blah, blah.

      It’s ‘toe the line’, dummy. Homonyms occasionally trick even the most accomplished writers, so someone like you must make that mistake all the time.

      You and Avinalaff-the discredited osteopath (tautology, I know, but humour me) with the vulgar turn of phrase-turn out to have a lot in common. Both obsessed with others’ nether regions.

      Delightful, and a wonderful advertisement for the antivax brand.

      • spinneywebber
        February 2, 2016 at 3:42 am #

        your ego has by far outstripped both your IQ and your usefulness, and your sense of humor has withered into the meagerest of specimens, worthy of pity, almost, if it weren’t for your meanness.
        stick to the issues I pointed out and spare everyone the lame ad hominem attacks.
        Your pathetic way of squirming out of saying anything of substance is getting very dull.

        • Who?
          February 2, 2016 at 4:01 am #

          Oh honey are all your fee-fees hurt?

          Is the mean lady kicking your useless arse and pointing out that you are a sad sleazy old nobody who can’t even write a simple sentence straight?

          You started with the personal remarks, sunshine. If you can’t hack it, don’t play.

          No point tackling what you sweetly call ‘issues’-as your proudly flaunted functional illiteracy indicates, you can’t actually learn, so why would anyone assume you know anything about anything?

          • spinneywebber
            February 2, 2016 at 4:08 am #

            I have wasted enough time on you sister.
            I really feel sorry for anyone who has to put up with you on a daily basis.

            Bye Bye.

          • Who?
            February 2, 2016 at 4:11 am #

            So this is the flounce.

            I’m so proud.

            I’ll tell my fab husband and intelligent, attractive and professionally successful children that a sad sleazy old nobody whose entire thinking is ‘vax is bad’ thinks I’m insufferable.

            We’ll all spend 5 seconds laughing at your pathetic life, and get on with our awesome ones.

            Mind the door on your way out!

    • The Computer Ate My Nym
      February 2, 2016 at 3:28 am #

      Reference, please. Simply typing something and attributing it to the AP proves nothing. It’s already been amply demonstrated on this thread that anti-vaxxers have no problem with writing deceptive posts and outright lies to make their points.

      • spinneywebber
        February 2, 2016 at 3:36 am #

        uh…any idiot knows if they type in a sentence or two into a search engine the Associated Press article will come up plain as day.

        How’s this, a link straight to NBC news for you:

        http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/brazil-revises-birth-defect-count-zika-investigation-n505486

        • The Computer Ate My Nym
          February 2, 2016 at 4:01 am #

          Congratulations on being able to type from a secondary source correctly, even if you don’t know how to cite or interpret results.

          A few bits that you left out: Confirming the presence of Zika is described as a difficult process. The virus is confirmed in 6 cases, but it is not ruled out in the others, as you seem to assume. See this article for a more complete discussion of the test, the uncertainties, and the potential for a more reliable test that could settle the question. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/brazil-may-be-close-to-a-more-reliable-test-for-the-zika-virus/2016/01/29/b174f828-c6a1-11e5-b933-31c93021392a_story.html

          • spinneywebber
            February 2, 2016 at 4:07 am #

            as I said, I’m sure they’ll come up with a more “reliable” test.
            That is, one that more reliably gives them the answer they seek.
            The way you gullible morons eat it all up and with such relish savor the steady diet of FEAR they feed you is really something to behold.

            Hey, be sure to “get your flu shot!”

          • Who?
            February 2, 2016 at 4:08 am #

            Is this the flounce?

            If so, can he stick it?

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 4:28 am #

            Well, that’s silly. If all “they” wanted was a test that would give them the answer they want, why bother to do a test at all? Just make up the answers, like Wakefield. So much less work and bother! I’m going to have to bring this up at the next Pharma Shills United meeting. Nothing more annoying than an inefficient conspiracy. Why, the money they spent on the new test could be lining my pockets!

          • Who?
            February 2, 2016 at 4:45 am #

            I’ll second any motion you propose on that topic!

          • spinneywebber
            February 2, 2016 at 5:26 am #

            you watch too many movies, reality is a lot messier, it takes time to get everyone on the same page with the team message.

      • Who?
        February 2, 2016 at 3:56 am #

        He’s channelling The Donald-talk crap with confidence, cry that all his fee-fees are hurt by the mean lady, rinse and repeat.

        He’s sooking below that I’m unkind to him, just because I pointed out that he’s a sleazy ignoramus who can’t write a lucid sentence.

        This one is nearly busted.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym
          February 2, 2016 at 4:02 am #

          Yeah, but I think he’s right to move from attempts to argue the evidence to straight ad homs: He’s much sounder on ad homs than on data.

          • Who?
            February 2, 2016 at 4:04 am #

            He is. And considering he started with the rude remarks-he cast nastursiums at my flawless undies, more than once-I have no problem alerting everyone to his proclivities.

            I don’t even have to make it up!

            Did you see his pathetic little whine below?

          • spinneywebber
            February 2, 2016 at 4:57 am #

            6 out of 270: 2%
            be very afraid of Zika

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 5:11 am #

            Well, at least the math is right, if incomplete. 6 out of 270 confirmed in a disease where the identification of the causative agent is notoriously difficult and the epidemiologic evidence strongly suggests a connection. Could it be wrong? Sure it could. Could it be the vaccine, any vaccine? Nope. It’s also not chemtrails, 9-11, or cell phones. Sorry.

          • spinneywebber
            February 2, 2016 at 5:24 am #

            “epidemiologic evidence strongly suggests a connection”…2%

            heroic attempt to spin it your way, but convincing it is not.

            “identification of the causative agent is notoriously difficult”

            yeah, because the virus is so harmless they never bothered to develop a test for it. Most people who get it aren;t even aware they have it.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 5:29 am #

            Why is it not convincing? Are you not convinced by the clustering? Is the temporal correlation of the arrival of Zika not convincing? What is your alternative hypothesis and how does it better explain the data?

            So you believe that drug companies are evil and in a conspiracy with regulatory agencies all over the world to inoculate pregnant women with dangerous chemicals…and that they are able and willing to develop diagnostic tests based strictly on the severity of a condition. With no reference to the incidence or geographic distribution of the problem (bluntly, whether it occurs in the “first world” where they can make a lot of money off of it or not.) Very trusting of you.

          • Azuran
            February 2, 2016 at 10:04 am #

            Was it a double blind study? No? Then using your own standards it proves nothing.
            If you refuse to admit that vaccine are safe because there was never a double blind study, then you cannot accept Zika as being safe without the same level of scientific evidence.

      • Dagfinn Klausen
        February 2, 2016 at 7:53 am #

        Recognising Your name being one of the best I have seen in any discussion, may I suggest You upgrade Your profile with a relevant photo?
        Putting Your name into the StartPage search engine came up with this one. Assume the dog´s name is Computer.
        Enjoy.
        PS! If You decide to use it, there may be a fee to be paid…

    • February 2, 2016 at 10:31 am #

      Basic error here is assuming that Zika will be present in all the children born with microcephaly.

      The evidence suggests the virus causes defects when the mother gets it in the first trimester. So by birth, or by the time any tests on the children are done, the virus would have been cleared.

      Also, NOBODY, is claiming that Zika is to blame for EVERY microcephaly case. Normal rates are around 1-2 in every 10,000 births. It is the sudden increase that has got people worried.

      Simple explanations which you appear to have totally overlooked in your efforts to sell a non-existent conspiracy.

  14. califmichele
    February 1, 2016 at 6:20 pm #

    zika virus is a flavivirus related to the viruses that cause yellow fever and dengue. It was identified 70 years ago in the Zika jungle of Uganda, SO WHERE’S ALL THE CASES FROM 70 YEARS? Did you know in 2010 Genetically Modified Mosquitoes were released? What I’m looking for is when did the Health Dept in Brazil start requiring women to get Dtap vaccines while pregnant? Vaccines have been tainted previously. What are these ‘Scientist coming up with to kill us’?

    released in Cayman Island, Malaysia and Brazil

    In 2009 and 2010, Oxford-based company Oxitech released 3 million GM mosquitoes OX513A on the Cayman Islands, a British Overseas Territory. Information about these releases was only published a year later, and questions have been raised about the legality of the procedures under UK and EU legislation.

    In December 2010, GM mosquitoes were released in Malaysia, and in February 2011 in Brazil. The release of 16 – 24,000 GM mosquitoes OX513A (My1) in Malaysia took place at a moment when the public was left to believe that the trials were postponed.

    According to GeneWatch future releases are aledgely planned in countries like Panama, India, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam and the USA.

    last updated: February 2012
    http://www.econexus.info/topic/ge-mosquitoes

    • Rachele Willoughby
      February 1, 2016 at 6:23 pm #

      Have y’all ever noticed that you can tell trolls from regular commenters without even reading their rambling, badly punctuated posts?

    • Azuran
      February 1, 2016 at 6:28 pm #

      Seeing as we had nowhere near our current medical knowledge and technology nor the means to share health information quickly and effectively 70 years ago. It’s totally reasonable that cases of microcephaly caused by zika 70 or even 30 years ago would not have been recognized as such.

    • yugaya
      February 1, 2016 at 6:41 pm #

      GMO spelled backwards is OMG. I have to check what mosquito spelled backwards is, but I bet it means something too. Connect the dots…

      • Roadstergal
        February 1, 2016 at 6:46 pm #

        “GMO spelled backwards in OMG”

        I regret that I have but one upvote to give this comment.

      • The Computer Ate My Nym
        February 2, 2016 at 3:35 am #

        OTIUQSOM? I’m pretty sure that’s the trade name of someone’s, probably Merck’s, newest drug. Might work better if you cheat and call it Otiqusom though. I’m guessing it’s an insomnia treatment, but you never know with trade names.

        • Who?
          February 2, 2016 at 4:06 am #

          Did you not get the memo? It was all over shillmail the other day.

          Perhaps in the spam folder?

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 5:15 am #

            Go out of town for one little job interview* and what happens? I miss all the good stuff!

            As a side note, if I ever write a zombie story, Otiquosom is definitely going to be the thing that causes the zombie plague.

            *Ironically, an actual pharma company job. Which I probably didn’t get because, despite what the conspiracy theorists think, pharma does in fact have standards.

          • Who?
            February 2, 2016 at 6:15 am #

            Good luck!

    • Boris Ogon
      February 1, 2016 at 10:15 pm #

      SO WHERE’S ALL THE CASES FROM 70 YEARS?

      Zika has generally had a sylvatic life cycle. There have only been three notable outbeaks: the Yap Islands (which was pretty small), French Polynesia (much larger, with a Guillain-Barré signal), and now, basically, a giant amount of virgin soil.

      Now one gets to see what happens on a really large scale. Moreover, there’s an open question whether ZIKV—which is all set for purifying, synonymous substitutions thanks to the host–vector cycling—has happened onto a form with more extensive viremia.

      • Azuran
        February 1, 2016 at 10:19 pm #

        that and 70 years ago people were otherwise occupied with things like WWII. I doubt they cared much about microcephaly in Africa/asia.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym
      February 2, 2016 at 3:32 am #

      Wait, you lost me. Too many random accusations. Is it the vaccines or the genetically altered mosquitoes? And if I get bit by a genetically altered mosquito, will I gain mosquito related superpowers?

      • DaisyGrrl
        February 2, 2016 at 8:08 am #

        You only get superpowers if you live in the Marvel Universe. As was pointed out to me in the first days of this thread, the GMO mosquitoes are males, and thus do not bite.

        I think the developers of the genetically altered mosquitoes did it on purpose to ensure we can’t get any sweet, sweet superpowers.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym
          February 2, 2016 at 8:14 am #

          Curses! Foiled again! I was hoping to gain the ability to fly and whine in a high pitched tone that drives people mad just listening to it.

          • DaisyGrrl
            February 2, 2016 at 8:19 am #

            The high pitched whining has been perfected by the anti-vaxxers parachuting into this thread.

            Instead, you should get a superpower that allows you to fly around and sting people with a dose of common sense.

    • February 2, 2016 at 10:41 am #

      The information about the introduction of DTaP to Brazil is not hidden or secret. It happened late 2014.

      This, by the way, was about 4 months after that same vaccine became routine for pregnant women in the UK. Yet not microcephaly spike has occurred.

      Australia has had a big push to vaccinate pregnant mothers recently, and a very vociferous anti-vaccine lobby failed to identify or “reveal” any spike in birth defects.

      The vaccine is clearly not to blame,

  15. LibrarianSarah
    February 1, 2016 at 5:51 pm #

    So what fresh pit of hell was this article reposted?

    • Madtowngirl
      February 1, 2016 at 6:11 pm #

      I’m wondering this, myself.

      • kellymbray
        February 1, 2016 at 10:58 pm #

        Judging by the total lack of intelligence, arrogance, and perseveration even the the face of complete debunking……I would save VRM and their cult.

  16. Who?
    February 1, 2016 at 5:12 pm #

    I’ve been asleep for many hours, and it’s really hot, and we woke up this morning to the news that zika is now an international health emergency.

    I’d like to ask our anti-vax (or, as those who feel they are developing in sophistication style themselves, vaccine pro-choice) visitors to think for a moment about the ramifications of what they are saying for thousands of pregnant women, and the parents of babies afflicted with microcephaly or GBS.

    The anti-vaxxers are attacking those women for following medical advice. They claim to be attacking Big Pharma or whoever their boogey man du jour is, but in the end it is the mothers who feel those attacks.

    My understanding of anti-vaxxers, developed over years of paying attention to their efforts at communication, is that they are driven by fear, and by the need to be part of a community that they strongly identify with. One of the ways they build this identity is by attacking outsiders.

    One of the outcomes of this is a total lack of empathy for anyone who doesn’t follow their script to the letter.

    This is what we’re seeing here.

    It’s times like this I wish I believed that what goes around comes around.

  17. Megan
    February 1, 2016 at 4:39 pm #

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine

    Here is a primer on DPT, DTaP and Tdap.

  18. Nick Sanders
    February 1, 2016 at 4:37 pm #

    Just remember, despite Avinalaff calling Rachele a transexual, we’re the trolls. The parachuters are saints of unsullied virtue.

    • Rachele Willoughby
      February 1, 2016 at 4:42 pm #

      For the record, I object to “transsexual” being used as an insult in general not so much it’s application to me personally. Not cool, dude.

      • Nick Sanders
        February 1, 2016 at 4:44 pm #

        Indeed.

      • yugaya
        February 1, 2016 at 4:48 pm #

        Pitiful even.

      • Who?
        February 1, 2016 at 4:52 pm #

        Quite right too.

        It is far more pejorative of the person using it than the person they think they are describing.

      • KeeperOfTheBooks
        February 1, 2016 at 9:26 pm #

        It’s a bit like “that’s so gay” or “that’s so retarded” in that respect. Grrrrr.

    • Megan
      February 1, 2016 at 4:42 pm #

      And don’t forget, we’re all actually the same person, only with a few hundred different aliases.

      • Rachele Willoughby
        February 1, 2016 at 4:43 pm #

        And *so much* free time.

        • demodocus
          February 1, 2016 at 4:51 pm #

          not to mention fast typing skills

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 4:52 pm #

            And the ability to shift between dozens of accounts and IP addresses in seconds.

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 4:52 pm #

            I assume there are several open windows

      • Bombshellrisa
        February 1, 2016 at 4:46 pm #

        And we are all getting PAID or otherwise rewarded. (Anyone else have their shill money lost in the mail?)

        • Megan
          February 1, 2016 at 4:47 pm #

          Yeah, WTF?? I want my pay, or at least some free diapers for my kids.

          • Bombshellrisa
            February 1, 2016 at 5:41 pm #

            I would settle for some shoes for my two year old. Guess who somehow kicked off his shoes during a tantrum at Target? Yes, my son. The only pair that fit him too. I had no idea his was missing shoes until we got home. Yeah, this is after we bought boxes of diapers and the other necessities for him. Maybe I can cash in my shill points for kids shoes cause man, those things are expensive

          • momofone
            February 1, 2016 at 5:43 pm #

            I’m not sure if I’ve reached shill-level qualifications, but my son sure could use some new shoes. It’s a month until payday, so if Big Money could come through soon, it would be much appreciated.

          • Bombshellrisa
            February 1, 2016 at 5:48 pm #

            My Buy Nothing friends came through, and good thing. If you are on that (Facebook, local to your area) it can really help with those times when you need something and would like it to be free.

          • Megan
            February 1, 2016 at 6:09 pm #

            Oh yes, my daughter loves to kick off shoes. So far we’ve been lucky enough to notice it when it happens but I’m sure we’ll lose a pair eventually.

          • BeatriceC
            February 2, 2016 at 12:42 am #

            I quickly learned why high tops were the shoes of choice for parents of toddlers for generations when my kids were little. The hassle of getting them on once was worth not having to put them back on every 7.2 minutes and losing them every second day.

        • BeatriceC
          February 2, 2016 at 12:41 am #

          Mine is lost as well. I wish it would show up so I could buy a new car instead of entering into week two of diagnostics and gremlin chasing in my 11 year old minivan. Walking everywhere or borrowing MrC’s SUV (which I hate with an unbridled passion) sucks. Thankfully almost everywhere I need to go is within a mile of my house, with the notable exception of the hospital the boys are treated at, but still, I’d like a running car. This is getting old.

    • demodocus
      February 1, 2016 at 4:50 pm #

      i always assumed trolls reproduced assexually

      • Nick Sanders
        February 1, 2016 at 4:51 pm #

        Well, I know orks grow from fungal spores, so maybe.

      • Who?
        February 1, 2016 at 4:51 pm #

        It’s the less revolting option to think about, certainly.

      • kellymbray
        February 1, 2016 at 11:02 pm #

        Like a slime mold?

    • Who?
      February 1, 2016 at 4:51 pm #

      They really have the Donald Trump Thing going, don’t they. The moment they say something, it becomes true forever more, and if it turns out to not be correct, they bluster and repeat and the cycle starts again.

  19. Liberty & Justice For All
    February 1, 2016 at 3:13 pm #

    Wait.. I thought they claimed autism is genetic.. Now it’s caused by Zika?!
    How convenient. And the new vaccine for it almost ready. Anyone swallowing this crap?

    • Nick Sanders
      February 1, 2016 at 3:14 pm #

      Microcephaly is not autism.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Microcephaly.png

      • Roadstergal
        February 1, 2016 at 3:19 pm #

        Jesus, that really demonstrates the knowledge of the anti-vaxxers, doesn’t it. Like we needed more.

        • Avinalaff
          February 1, 2016 at 4:24 pm #

          Just like the knowledge of the vaccine luvvie

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 4:26 pm #

            Everything you say is so spectacularly nonsensical I don’t know whether to be offended or amused.

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 5:39 pm #

            Be depressed.

            He is the best of his tribe, why else would they have sent him.

      • The Computer Ate My Nym
        February 1, 2016 at 4:03 pm #

        In fact, autistic children tend to have slightly larger than average head circumferences. Also, microcephaly is a description of a phenomenon, not a specific disease so every case of microcephaly is not associated with zika. As the confusion about the case of VWMD below shows.

        • KeeperOfTheBooks
          February 1, 2016 at 9:28 pm #

          On a side note, it wouldn’t shock me if the whole larger head circumference/autistic kids connection is why kids born via CS are slightly more likely to have autism–not because the CS caused the autism, but because the larger head circumference made a CS more likely.

    • Avinalaff
      February 1, 2016 at 4:23 pm #

      Well Megan is, you know those Brazilian women were all given the DPT vaccine, whilst they were pregnant, and was no safety data for its use on pregnant women, well there is now, 2,400 babies full of it.

    • Who?
      February 1, 2016 at 5:37 pm #

      It’s Donald Trump!

      Speaking crap with authority!

      I thought you were busy trying to dupe a bunch of evangelical christians into voting for you for president despite your venal worldly ways.

  20. scott summers
    February 1, 2016 at 2:51 pm #

    This lady is sipping the kool aid. The birth defects are being caused by the tdap vaccine. This is a cover up. Zika has never been linked to birth defects. Tdap is classified as a class c drug with proven birth defects in animals.

    • Boris Ogon
      February 1, 2016 at 3:20 pm #

      Boostrix is Pregnancy Category B.

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 4:26 pm #

        Boris is a dork, catagory A

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

          So, he’s been clinically demonstrated safe for pregnant women?

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 4:44 pm #

            Go Boris!

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 6:13 pm #

            Boris: the acetaminophen of men.

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 6:36 pm #

            Aceta_men_ophen, baby. (Oh, all of the oral dosage jokes…)

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 7:22 am #

            Acetaminophen can be introduced into the body by a number of routes. (Double entendre? I don’t know what you mean.)

          • Boris Ogon
            February 1, 2016 at 10:27 pm #

            I have no idea how to take this. I have not come to bind all your glutathione, promise.

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 11:50 pm #

            I don’t either, but note that you don’t seem like an antivax moron with an attitude problem, so it’s probably a compliment.

          • kellymbray
            February 2, 2016 at 12:42 am #

            Are we talking to the osteopath again?

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 4:48 pm #

            that’s for his partner to know

    • Rachele Willoughby
      February 1, 2016 at 3:25 pm #

      At least this one got the name of the vaccine right.

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 4:26 pm #

        Depends where you live, it is also called the Dpt. Zika has been around for 70 years, no one has mass injected pregnant women with Dpt until the 10 month period before this event.
        It’s a wrap

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 4:27 pm #

          Nope, DPT is a different vaccine.

        • Megan
          February 1, 2016 at 4:30 pm #

          DPT is not the same as Tdap (or even DTaP). Why should we listen to anything you say if you don’t even know the difference between the vaccines.

  21. angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
    February 1, 2016 at 2:02 pm #

    IF big pharma , WHO, CDC, FDA, had been honest, instead of recommending vaccinations, which has led to this horrific situation of siblings and mums and dads being vaccinated carriers INFECTING, their own babies, and everyone else…with whooping cough………. they would merely have had all acellular pertussis vaccinated family members tested to see if they were carriers of pertussis, before bub was born, and treated it with antibiotics…………….. HOW SIMPLE IS THAT? In 5 years, only 3 out of 10 vaccinated are still possible carriers, after 10 years no vaccinated carriers. Luckily the vaccine fails after an average of 2 years…….. After 10 years is 100% failure in everyone………… no more vaccinated carriers.

    • Rachele Willoughby
      February 1, 2016 at 2:07 pm #

      Why do you use so many periods? Did punctuation kill your father?

      Also, we discussed this down below. Not that you read or understood anything we wrote. One. More. Time:

      Even *if* you can extrapolate the animal studies to human beings and assume that parents were infecting their own babies even though they themselves were asymptomatic they still had to catch the disease from somewhere. The vaccine did not give it to them. They caught it from an infected individual but showed no symptoms. Without the ebil vaccine they would have simply caught the disease and passed it onto their infants that way.

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 4:28 pm #

        Hey Rachele, have all Racheles got bit tits or are you an exception? Have you got a strap on dick?

        • Rachele Willoughby
          February 1, 2016 at 4:31 pm #

          I have a real dick thank you very much.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 4:40 pm #

            Bigger than theirs, too, I’ll bet.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 4:50 pm #

            Well, since we’re all the same person, I suppose you’d know.

          • LibrarianSarah
            February 1, 2016 at 5:57 pm #

            But is it a bit dick?

        • Who?
          February 1, 2016 at 4:53 pm #

          Having a laugh.

          Got that right.

        • demodocus
          February 1, 2016 at 4:54 pm #

          They don’t call me Strapper for nothing

    • Avinalaff
      February 1, 2016 at 4:27 pm #

      Well they are all assholes, like the vaccine luvvies above and below.

      • Nick Sanders
        February 1, 2016 at 4:28 pm #

        Says the person whose argument was “Boris is a dork”…

        Edit: and is now asking about women’s breast sizes and sex toy usage. Classy.

        • Rachele Willoughby
          February 1, 2016 at 4:30 pm #

          Hey, I thought that one scored some points. I mean, the sentence is appropriately punctuated *and* makes logical sense. Who could ask for more?

  22. angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
    February 1, 2016 at 1:49 pm #

    Why are people pretending zika is damaging, when there is absolutely no evidence, not even causal? while ignoring the fact, all these babies got vaccinated before birth,,,,,,,, mothers all got vaccines dtap from MAY.

  23. The Computer Ate My Nym
    February 1, 2016 at 1:19 pm #

    Why are people trying so hard to deny that zika is real and damaging, both fetuses and adults? It seems to be a thing that people deny the reality of viral disease from general anti-vax “natural immunity is better and no one ever died of small pox” claims to “HIV is fake and was invented by the CIA/Merck/the KGB/whoever else I can blame” to “there is no ebola, it’s all malaria.” Why is it so important to people to deny infectious illness this way? Do they feel safer somehow? I don’t mean to be snarky, though I’m sure I am being: It’s clearly something deeply psychologically important to a lot of people a lot of the time.

    • Roadstergal
      February 1, 2016 at 1:21 pm #

      Perhaps because emerging and mutating diseases in a changing world is a scary thing, and it’s easier to pretend it’s not so?

      Also, the Look At Me I’m Smarter Than The Experts, which never fails to appeal.

      • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
        February 1, 2016 at 1:30 pm #

        Doesnt scare me, thats what we have immune systems for….. anyhow what mutating diseases? Do you mean measles now being called atypical measles, that is spread amongst the vaccinated?…………….. 1200 vaccine damaged babies per month, however, surely should be investigated, rather than ignoring that fact, and saying 2 (TWO), were caused by zika?

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 1:38 pm #

          Do you mean measles now being called atypical measles, that is spread amongst the vaccinated?

          No matter how many times you say this, it means nothing without proof.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 1:38 pm #

            I’m sure there’s a laymen’s blog somewhere that says so.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 1:44 pm #

            Plenty of references out there, but lets just concentrate on pertussis acellular vaccine, ie whooping cough, the vaccine that is a failure, in use since mid 90s.
            It is well documented that in measles outbreaks, those infected are much more likely to be vaccinated, than not vaccinated. but as measles is not deadly, it is not that relevant, except that the vaccine is useless.
            Pertussis vaccine failure, however, IS CAUSING BABY DEATHS…. and trying to vaccinate a baby before birth, well look what happened in Brazil?

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:13 pm #

            “Plenty of references out there…” but you won’t provide any because, reasons? Or is it because you know we’ll just mock you when it turns out to be a bunch of blogs?

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 2:19 pm #

            Could you be bothered to link to documents about how the measles outbreak touched mainly vaccinated kids?

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 3:28 pm #

            It’s the same mathematical ignorance that leads Angela Coral Eisenhauer to drive drunk everywhere, because numerically speaking, far more sober people get into automobile accidents.

            Since the vast majority of those exposed were vaccinated, many vaccinated children got infected. However, if you looked at exposure vs infection, you were massively more likely to be infected if you hadn’t been vaccinated, of course. It’s just that for all the noise they make, parents who like their kids to be sick are still a fringe movement.

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 3:35 pm #

            I expected as much, I just wanted to show some proof of her claims

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:51 pm #

            Or just look thru all the references on my fb page……… if you dont want to search.

        • Roadstergal
          February 1, 2016 at 1:58 pm #

          “Doesnt scare me, thats what we have immune systems for”

          Totally, that’s why congenital rubella syndrome didn’t exist in the pre-vaccine days.

          Do you get bonuses for excessive ellipses use, like punch cards for sandwiches?

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:06 pm #

            Whats excessive ellipses and punch cards and sandwiches got to do with the horror of the magnitude of deformed babies, being born, because of being given a trial vaccine before birth? 4,000 now, and another 1200 a month, until the last affected will be born in July……………… do you actually grasp, the absolute horror, of what pharma have done? Can you imagine, all those other vaccinated in pregnancy women, just waiting, hoping it wont be them?

        • Rachele Willoughby
          February 1, 2016 at 2:34 pm #

          And, really, who needs contact lenses? That’s what we have eyes for. Body systems never need help from modern medicine.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:38 pm #

            ?????? sorry what has contact lenses got to do with anything? Um sorry contact lenses and vaccine damaged babies in Brazil??? um?

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:41 pm #

            I’m going to be generous and assume that you’re being purposefully dense (for your own amusement perhaps? I don’t know your life) and really do understand the meaning of allegory and sarcasm, even if you refuse to admit it.

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 3:44 pm #

            Nothing you’ve said is relevant to anything other than in your fevered brain.

            It’s busy but unproductive in there.

            Look up Cleveland, it’s a city.

        • Azuran
          February 1, 2016 at 3:24 pm #

          My immune system tried to kill me whenever I had breastmilk as a baby. Obviously, immune systems are not perfect, maybe you shouldn’t trust it 100% to protect you against everything.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 3:34 pm #

            It’s because your mother had an epidural, I’m sure. You body didn’t want any of that nasty big pharma drug milk.

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 3:37 pm #

            Yea, except she didn’t. But it’s probably my future epidural that travelled back in time, just like the vaccines do.

    • Madtowngirl
      February 1, 2016 at 1:26 pm #

      Because they think everyone, especially ebil big pharma and ebil government, is out to get them.

      • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
        February 1, 2016 at 1:28 pm #

        Who are “”they””? please elaborate.

        • Rachele Willoughby
          February 1, 2016 at 1:30 pm #

          You. She’s talking about you. And your wordpress “references”.

          Also, that other guy, but I think he’s gone now. And that weird chick who thinks polio is a conspiracy.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 1:32 pm #

            http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm thats not wordpress. “The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) immunization schedule was updated in January, 2013 to recommend that a dose of Tdap vaccine be administered to all pregnant women during each pregnancy whether or not they have received the vaccine previously.

            … There have not been definitive studies on the efficacy and safety of this vaccine. … The Tdap vaccine contains aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80 and may contain traces of thimerosal. Polysorbate 80 (also known as Tween 80) has been shown to cause infertility in animals.

            Parenteral injection of aluminum has been shown to cause neurotoxicity. Thimerosal contains 50% mercury by weight. Mercury is a known neurotoxin and carcinogen. Formaldehyde is a human carcinogen and highly toxic to all animals.

            … Is it safe to infect Tdap in a pregnant female? Nobody knows. Again, no studies have been done to ensure that the vaccine is safe.”

            ― David Brownstein, MD

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 1:34 pm #

            All these pregnant women got dtap, and you trying to blame a mossie, do you know how absurd you all sound, ie the owners of this blog?

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 1:35 pm #

            Quit talk to yourself.

          • Charybdis
            February 1, 2016 at 2:03 pm #

            TDaP. Again, it is TDaP.

            And do you know how barking mad you sound, spouting nonsense, moving goalposts, etc?

            No? Of course not. *pats head*

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:10 pm #

            sorry, just shorter than writing acellular pertussis vaccine. and it isnt TDaP or TDaP Apparently it is Tdap does it matter? …………….
            The report specified the Tdap produced by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) of the United Kingdom as the one to be used. GSK has a technology transfer agreement with Brazil’s Butantan Institute for the production of the Tdap vaccine5 in Brazil.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:16 pm #

            DTaP and TDaP are different vaccines. DTaP and TDaP are different vaccines. DTaP and TDaP are different vaccines. DTaP and TDaP are different vaccines.

            The fact that you honestly don’t know the difference after having it explained to you over and over in the simplest terms possible calls into question not just your qualifications but also your intelligence.

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 3:43 pm #

            Maybe she doesn’t realize that the order of letters in words is important.

            I remember a comedian many years ago – “I played cello for the London Philharmonic Orchestra, but they fired me because I’m dyslexic and kept telling people I worked for the PLO.”

          • Boris Ogon
            February 1, 2016 at 3:53 pm #

            In Portuguese, the relevant vaccine is “dTpa.”

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 3:59 pm #

            Good to know.

          • Megan
            February 1, 2016 at 4:06 pm #

            Thank you for that. That is useful.

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 2:08 pm #

            All the pregnant women in my area have gotten TDaP in the last couple of years; Have you heard of the massive microcephaly outbreak in Cleveland?

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 2:09 pm #

            (There isn’t one)

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:40 pm #

            Should I have? Wheres Cleveland? Never heard of that country.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:45 pm #

            I thought you knew how to Google? You might want to quietly go do that real quick before you embarrass yourself (even more).

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 3:21 pm #

            huh, my brain. Your comment is so stupid, it gave me an aneurysm

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 3:30 pm #

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G2l_A9nB0

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 3:43 pm #

            Fuck yes, that was a great show.

          • Avinalaff
            February 1, 2016 at 4:42 pm #

            They all shrank

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 6:56 pm #

            Just because it can’t be said often enough, and sometimes even The Donald needs correction: the brains don’t shrink, they just don’t grow.

            I get that you have contempt for knowledge, and you wear your vicious ignorance with pride, but you will sound less stupid if you avoid getting every single fact utterly, completely and hopelessly wrong.

            Oh actually what do you care? Why let the facts get in the way of your grand obsession of the moment?

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 5:06 pm #

            Did I say country?

          • momofone
            February 1, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

            Do you know how absurd “mossie” sounds when you use in it a context in which you’re trying to impress the masses with your superior knowledge?

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 2:55 pm #

            Especially since mosquitos can spread all kinds of nastiness: dengue, yellow fever, west nile, and the greatest killer in human history: malaria.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 8:55 pm #

            Is it really the greatest killer in human history? I would have guessed diarrheal illnesses. Though I don’t know that much about malaria.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 10:06 pm #

            I’ve read that estimates for it’s death toll range as high as half of all deaths ever.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 11:17 pm #

            Wow. That’s crazy.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 2, 2016 at 4:38 am #

            Is that counting or not counting the people who died of RBC mutations that are prevalent because they protect against malaria in heterozygous state but kill in homozygous? Mosquitoes are responsible for sickle and sickle is one of the most ridiculously evil diseases ever.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 12:43 pm #

            I do not know.

          • Who?
            February 2, 2016 at 12:00 am #

            To be fair ‘mossie’ is an entirely reasonable Australian contraction for ‘mosquito’. Pronounced ‘mozzie’.

            Unfortunately it is being used by a joke with a keyboard, so I can see you’d find it unsettling.

          • momofone
            February 2, 2016 at 12:05 am #

            The joke with the keyboard is the part that got to me. It just seemed to contribute to the ludicrousness in that moment. (I’m married to a Kiwi, so have heard it and never found it objectionable before, though I’m happy to say my husband isn’t a raving lunatic either.)

          • Who?
            February 2, 2016 at 12:18 am #

            So pleased you’re not married to a raving lunatic!

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 2:54 pm #

            Not a single one of them got DTaP.

          • Boris Ogon
            February 1, 2016 at 4:15 pm #

            All these pregnant women got dtap [sic]

            I take it this is based on the “mandate” asserted by the idsent blog. There’s just one problem: a quick examination of the original document (PDF) promptly reveals that it is merely a recommendation, preferably administered during the third trimester, which would eliminate any association with microcephaly.

            I know, thinking is hard.

          • Megan
            February 1, 2016 at 4:22 pm #

            “preferably administered during the third trimester, which would eliminate any association with microcephaly”

            I tried explaining this to her earlier. She couldn’t even understand basic fetal development, even in chart form or how Tdap is administered after a severe microcephaly would develop. Good luck; if it doesn’t confirm her bias, she isn’t interested.

          • Avinalaff
            February 1, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

            Problem is that when you think Boris, you fart

          • Rachel
            February 1, 2016 at 5:33 pm #

            Why are the cases clustered then?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            February 1, 2016 at 2:44 pm #

            So yeah, about 50% mercury by weight (atomic weight of mercury is 200, so more tha 50% in fact). But I don’t think it means what she thinks it means.

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 3:31 pm #

            Table salt contains more than 50% chlorine by weight. Chlorine is a highly poisonous gas. I’m sure the salt is what caused the birth defects.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 1:35 pm #

            The first paragraph you quoted comes from the link you provided. The other three paragraphs come from… your fevered imagination?

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 1:45 pm #

            No comes from David Brownstein, MD, as written at the bottom.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 1:52 pm #

            “”””individuals immunized with an acellular pertussis vaccine may be protected from disease, they may still become infected with the bacteria without always getting sick and are able to spread infection to others, including young infants who are susceptible to pertussis disease.”””” FDA report, if you dont believe its true heres the reference, in case you missed it…. http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 2:49 pm #

            I never said I didn’t believe it, I said it doesn’t generalize to other vaccines. And since you claimed other vaccines are the problem, the burden of proof is on you.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 2:50 pm #

            I don’t see Brownstein mentioned anywhere on that page.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 3:27 pm #

            We. Already. Talked. About. This. C’mon, work with us here.

          • Avinalaff
            February 1, 2016 at 4:40 pm #

            Same with Paul Offit, here is a video of Paul Offit rationalizing on the failure of vaccines.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18JmieM8SFc

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 4:43 pm #

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5iqYuFmzqg

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:11 pm #

            Reference please.

          • Avinalaff
            February 1, 2016 at 4:38 pm #

            Better take an aspirin

          • Boris Ogon
            February 1, 2016 at 3:28 pm #

            Thimerosal contains 50% mercury by weight.

            Boostrix doesn’t contain thimerosal.

          • Avinalaff
            February 1, 2016 at 4:38 pm #

            dick

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 5:06 pm #

            so, someone shows you proof and your answer is ‘dick’? How mature.

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 11:53 pm #

            Is Avinalaff removing his own remarks-they might put off his clients at the osteopath place-I won’t call it a clinic, as no health care goes on there.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 1, 2016 at 4:10 pm #

            Note that the statements made after the link to the FDA, above, do not contain the words that are printed after it in the comment. At no point does the linked press release make any statement about the safety of Tdap in pregnancy. At no point does it discuss thimerosal or aluminum. Or any other vaccine ingredient. The only thing it discusses is the possibility that the acellular vaccine clears the bacteria more slowly than the whole cellular vaccine. About 6 weeks versus 3 weeks in baboons. Hard to know how to extrapolate that to humans but being vaccinated for at least 6 weeks before being close to newborns seems prudent. The rest of it is total nonsense that ACE made up.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 4:19 pm #

            Also, neither the FDA nor CDC have any authority in Brazil.

          • Avinalaff
            February 1, 2016 at 4:38 pm #

            the job of the idiots on this site is to keep people in bullshite loops, they have no interest in anything useful. they are like those pantie salesmen who blog “i just got this great pair of …….” to up sales.
            Don’t post any links to papers that diss them, they get them taken down, like what happened to wikipedia. Just point out the fallacies in their statements, keep them out of the loop

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 4:39 pm #

            http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/60454922.jpg

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 11:52 pm #

            Don’t be so hard on your fellow anti vaxxers.

            Do you get any clients as an osteopath, btw? I don’t call them patients, because your field is a joke.

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 1:33 pm #

          You, Spinny, Graceds, sabelmouse, Avinalaff, Kaja, flow, lifebiomedguru, Randal, Ruth. There’s more, but I’m getting tired of scrolling down. Is that enough to qualify as a “they” for you?

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:48 pm #

            Is it relevant? Do you actually have any opinion on the article, that a vaccine should be produced, to fight a disease caused by a vaccine disaster? Or a mythical mossie, or the other theory, the women all drank out of the same coke bottle? Anything, anything logical? Any normal sort of rational response?

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 2:51 pm #

            You have not at all proved a vaccine caused this, so stop acting like you have.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 3:56 pm #

            Actually, “the women all drank out of the same coke bottle,” is the *least* crazy thing you’ve suggested today.

          • Avinalaff
            February 1, 2016 at 4:35 pm #

            Rachele, get your tits out, your opinions have no sale value

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 4:56 pm #

            Tits are only for nursing. Didn’t you hear? We have a whole blog post about it.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 4:57 pm #

            Well, if I was lactating, then maybe I could use my liquid gold to fix his stupid.

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 5:20 pm #

            He’d probably still be obnoxious though.

            Breastmilk can’t fix everything.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 5:20 pm #

            Blasphemy!

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 5:22 pm #

            Oh I know.

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 4:35 pm #

        No, they are fuckwits and business men. this does not make for a good doctor. Swine flu was the same, a big pile of media medical bullshite, and they made a lot of money out of it.
        Since when was big pharma a charity and any warmongering government a philanthropist – did you believe in ‘weapons of mass destruction then Madfuckwit?

    • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
      February 1, 2016 at 1:26 pm #

      Here is a reference for you, basically no mosquito can possibly spread a virus that fast……….. they have a life cycle, they need to breed, to spread, to bite, impossible for all the women to have got bitten the same week, to start the first 1200 per month, and steady, victims….. Impossible. https://idsent.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/jumping-the-gun-on-the-zika-microcephaly-connection/

      As for the microcephaly zika connection……….. there IS NO CONNECTION………………….. As for all your other comments, they certainly are not relevant, and no one on this thread so far has mentioned HIV, nor malaria, nor ebola…………. so dont know where you got all that nonsense from, not this discussion. So why try are you trying to include stuff that is not relevant to your discussion, that you believe zika is rea and damaging foetuses? There is nothing that even implies Zika is damaging adults?

      • Charybdis
        February 1, 2016 at 1:32 pm #

        No single mosquito can. But they bite numerous people. Not real sure how disease vectors work, are you?

        Large numbers of mosquitoes carrying the Zika virus have shown up in Brazil. These mosquitoes bite people, transmitting the virus. These people now have the virus. Other mosquitoes who don’t carry the virus bite the infected people. Now the mosquitoes are infected and can spread the virus to the people they bite. See how it works?

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 1:39 pm #

          Also, people aren’t stationary objects.

          • Bombshellrisa
            February 1, 2016 at 4:45 pm #

            ((I had to like this because I read it as my two year old came running over with something. Turns out letting your Mickey and Minnie Mouse car take nose dives off the coffee table is bad for the characters. He was handing me the heads of both Minnie and Mickey, they fell off. He then took off like a whirlwind and is rearranging everything.))

        • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
          February 1, 2016 at 1:39 pm #

          Do you know how absurd that sounds? NO Zika, all of a sudden beginning October BANG 1200 a month affected babies………… Are they superfast mosquitos in Brazil, flying great distances, and infecting all these women, all starting the same week?

        • Avinalaff
          February 1, 2016 at 4:33 pm #

          zika has been around for 70 years most people have a flu like event and recover. Not ever has small heads been associated. it is not relevant. But what is relevant is that during the pregnancy, for the first time ever, all these women had been given a vaccine the Dpt, and it is not even supposed to be given to pregnant women.
          Can you not work that out? No because you are a vaccine luvvie

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 4:34 pm #

            They also got the virus for the first time ever, because until now, ZIKA HAD NEVER BEEN IN BRAZIL. Flaviviruses are known to cause birth defects, TDaP (not DPT) has been used for decades without any such incident.

          • Rachel
            February 1, 2016 at 5:24 pm #

            Pregnant women throughout the whole country received the vaccine. And by the way they received the Tdap vaccine. Not the Dpt. But anyhow.
            How then do you explain the clustering of microcephaly cases? Wouldnt the microcephaly cases be spread to all parts of the country? In equal numbers if it was caused by the vaccine?

          • Charybdis
            February 2, 2016 at 9:53 am #

            I. Will. Say. It. Again. No pregnant woman received the Dpt. Or the DTaP. Those are different vaccinations indicated for different populations. If they were given DTaP or Dpt, then their doctors need some remedial education.

            TDaP is what was given, and has been given to women in the third trimester of pregnancy for years. There has not been an outbreak of microcephaly cases like this after vaccination. For as long as that vaccine has been recommended/given, you’d think we’d have heard something about it by now. But no.

            Zika virus is new to Brazil, so the population of the country does not have any exposure to the virus, so there is no single or herd immunity already in existence in Brazil. So the virus is spreading quickly and Brazil is seeing some aftereffects like the outbreak of microcephaly.

            The Zika virus is the only new variable in the equation, can you not see that? Of course not. Much like allergies, you suspect the newest variable to the culprit, until proved otherwise. TDaP given for years to pregnant women in the third trimester to boost their immunity and provide some passive immunity to the baby until they can get their own vaccinations. No microcephaly outbreak with that step. Ooh, look! A new mosquito (for this area) is around now. it is discovered that the new mosquito carries a virus not seen in this part of the world before. After the mosquitoes show up, then they start having the microcephaly issues on a large scale. Seems to be basic, sound logic on where to start looking for answers.

            Please take notes and pay attention. There will be a pop quiz later.

      • The Computer Ate My Nym
        February 1, 2016 at 2:32 pm #

        Actually, there are cases of Zika associated GBS.

        zB: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=zika+gbs
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25001879

        • Avinalaff
          February 1, 2016 at 4:30 pm #

          I think you have lost this nymbot

    • Avinalaff
      February 1, 2016 at 4:30 pm #

      I think more than your nym got ate. why can’t you look at the data and process? Why are you in vaccine failure denial?

  24. yugaya
    February 1, 2016 at 12:50 pm #

    Dr Tuteur can you make a new post on this please? The onslaught of antivaxxers and +1500 comments are killing my browser.

    • Rachele Willoughby
      February 1, 2016 at 12:52 pm #

      No, Yugaya. The *stupid* is killing your browser. Have you tried rubbing some raw garlic on your keyboard?

      • DaisyGrrl
        February 1, 2016 at 12:55 pm #

        I recommend treating the keyboard homeopathically. Dump a glass of water on the keyboard and it will clean up all the comments!

        • Roadstergal
          February 1, 2016 at 12:56 pm #

          Homeopathic stupid for keyboard treatment – would that be typing one stupid thought out?

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 12:57 pm #

            Not diluted enough.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 1:18 pm #

            Hilarious, this thread is livening up a bit! yugaya, you losing control? a bit? Rachele, love the reply! If he/she so stressed, can always just stop posting,
            Here is the link again, the one from FDA that clearly states “”””individuals immunized with an acellular pertussis vaccine may be protected from disease, they may still become infected with the bacteria without always getting sick and are able to spread infection to others, including young infants who are susceptible to pertussis disease.””” http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm
            THUS THE REASONING BEHIND VACCINATING BABIES BEFORE BIRTH> Mothers/fathers/ siblings that have been vaccinated with the failed acellular pertussis vaccine, in last 10 years, can and do carry pertussis, without showing signs of illness, AND DO INFECT THEIR OWN BABIES. Cant vaccinate a newborn baby, it kills them, so how do you try and hide the fact THOSE VACCINATED WITHOUT SYMPTOMS ARE KILLING BABIES? You either stop vaccinating, and all the vaccine fails in 10 years, no more vaccinated carriers, and throat swab family members just before baby is born, to see if they are carriers…………… OR HIDE THE FAILURE AND ATTEMPT A NEW UNTRIED UNTESTED THING, VACCINATED BABIES BEFORE BIRTH? Which one makes the most money? They expected baby deaths, ie called miscarriages, I dont think they anticipated the absolute obvious blunder they have done, trying to hide a vaccine, that is such a failure, it is presently the direct cause of more pertussis baby deaths, than ever before known in history.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 1:20 pm #

            http://i.imgur.com/sHOTeWY.jpg

            Yeah, showing one vaccine can allow people to be carriers does not prove that all vaccines are such.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 1, 2016 at 1:26 pm #

            Actually, the study in question didn’t even do that. The press release is on a study in baboons.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 1:28 pm #

            I thought you knew I was a baboon. Didn’t you notice my brightly colored ass pads?

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 1:40 pm #

            Not bright enough. This is why you’ll never attract a quality mate.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 1:29 pm #

            You do realize that had these mothers been unvaccinated they would have simply *caught the disease* (and passed it to their infants) instead of becoming carriers.

            The vaccine does not create or spread the disease, it simply allows the vaccinated to carry it asymptomatically.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 1:59 pm #

            No, if GSK, WHO had been honest, instead of recommending vaccinations, JUST to keep the cycle of vaccinated carriers going, AND INFECTING, their own babies, and everyone else……….. they would merely have had all acellular pertussis vaccinated family members tested to see if they were carriers of pertussis, before bub was born, and treated it with antibiotics…………….. HOW SIMPLE IS THAT? In 5 years, only 3 out of 10 vaccinated are still possible carriers, after 10 years no vaccinated carriers. Luckily the vaccine fails after an average of 2 years…….. After 10 years is 100% failure in everyone………… no more vaccinated carriers.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:09 pm #

            But the disease would still be running rampant through the population. I’m not sure how your “solution” helps anyone.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

            Pertussis is a mild disease in kids, regardless of 100% being vaccinated in china, and 95% in parts of Australia, pertussis is still RUNNING RAMPANT…… The vaccine is making sure, it stays running rampant. Stop vaccinating, within about 8 or 10 years no more vaccinated carriers…….. Those still with vaccine immunity, are the dangerous ones, as they have no signs of infection, so they go near babies… they dont just spread pertussis once, for 8 weeks, EVERY time they get re infected (even by another symptomless carrier), they spread it again for 8 weeks, they are pertpetual carriers of pertussis………. until finally between 0-10 years, the vaccine fails, and they get pertussis themselves………. This vaccine is not working, even amongst those vaccinated, it lasts an average of only 2 years……………………… so what solution do you have rather than just stop using the vaccine?

          • momofone
            February 1, 2016 at 2:17 pm #

            A dear friend of mine had two babies who died of pertussis, many years before the vaccine was available. Such a mild disease.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:18 pm #

            Maybe she didn’t feed them enough organic foods.

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 2:21 pm #

            Nah, the vaccine travelled back in time to shed on those kids.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:26 pm #

            I specifically said IS MILD IN CHILDREN, DEADLY IN BABIES……….So attempting to prevent a mild illness in children, by vaccinating, actually means they are protected themselves, but then able to infect babies, and they have absolutely no symptoms of disease. Mild in children……. I guarantee a lot of the kids coughing around you are 1. Fully vaccinated for whooping cough and 2. Have whooping cough. Health departments dont even bother to count it now… doctors dont bother to send kids for testing….. Why bother? 30,000 verified infected, mean at least another 30,000 who dont realise their mild cough is actually pertussis, and another 30,000 still with vaccine immunity, but infected and spreading pertussis, without symptoms?
            If all I do in this thread, is get people to stop and think, and get a throat swab, if they have had acellular vaccine in the last 8 years…………. so they dont kill a baby…………. that will be great…. vaccinated carriers have no symptoms, but can easily get a throat swab………….

          • Charybdis
            February 1, 2016 at 2:56 pm #

            It is my understanding that they do not do a throat swab for pertussis. It is a nasopharyngeal swab or aspirate. So, definitely more uncomfortable and difficult than a strep swab.

            Procedure fail.

          • BeatriceC
            February 2, 2016 at 1:47 am #

            Yes, it’s a nasopharyngeal swab. My oldest thought it was one of the most uncomfortable medical procedures he’s ever been though, and this is a kid who’s had over a dozen orthopedic operations ranging from “mild” (tumor removal) to major (skeletal reconstruction).

          • momofone
            February 1, 2016 at 3:24 pm #

            It’s not necessary to shout. I can read lowercase just fine, thanks.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:18 pm #

            Kids in the outbreaks in Australia, didnt even suspect pertussis, they went out and about……….. just some of them were still coughing after 4-6 weeks, so they got tested……….. Any kids coughing near you, when you go out and about, are more that likely suffering pertussis, is mild……….. The vaccine was meant to protect babies, because they couldnt be vaccinated, and what happened? Everyone now can be either, a vaccinated carrier, or a vaccination failure, who has pertussis anyway?

          • Charybdis
            February 1, 2016 at 2:24 pm #

            Pertussis CAN be mild, but most of the time it is not. It can, and has killed babies and children for decades (at least). And it can be caught multiple times,so if you have a milder case, perhaps your vaccine (or naturally) acquired immunity has help moderate the body’s response.

            But somehow, that is a fail in your book.

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:31 pm #

            KILLS BABIES, in kids aged 6-12, mild illness, not deadly………….. however if those kids hadnt been vaccine failures and kept vaccinating for it every 2 years, they would be virtually lifelong carriers, spreading it to babies………… and babies die. As for number of baby deaths? More now than ever before in history,,,,,,,, all in vaccinated populations……… Never happened when the old whole cell vaccine was in use……….. vaccination rates have GONE UP, not down. Once you have had real pertussis, you dont get it again…………………… Catch it multiple times? Rubbish. The only ones catching it multiple times are the vaccinated carriers, as they just “”carry it”” over and over, and dont catch it until their own vaccine fails in average of 2-3 years.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            February 1, 2016 at 2:39 pm #

            My son and I both had bad persistent coughs last fall. Not whooping cough, but > 2 months of coughing (I still have some of it).

            And it sucked royally. It was awful. We brought him to the doctor twice to try to get something to help it, because it made life unbearable for us.

            That would be a mild pertussis. No thanks. It sucked.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:40 pm #

            But did you DIE?!?!!?!!?!???

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:42 pm #

            2 months of coughing, you are now totally and lifelong protected from pertussis…….(did you get a pertussis test? if not how do you know it wasnt pertussis?)……. You and your son will never ever be symptomless carriers infecting newborn babies…………….. Real awful, but didnt kill you like it does newborn babies, that vaccinated carriers pass on to babies, without even knowing.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            February 1, 2016 at 2:49 pm #

            We weren’t test because it wasn’t sever enough to suspect pertussis.

            But dumbass, I don’t care if it didn’t kill me. It sucked. It “made life unbearable for us.”

            And you don’t care. You are tied up in your little delusions that you would rather people suffer.

            You get whooping cough and YOU live through. How dare you wish it on me and my family! What an asshole.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 3:05 pm #

            Pertussis immunity does not last indefinitely.

          • BeatriceC
            February 2, 2016 at 1:44 am #

            I refuse to reply to a troll, so I’m picking you to reply to.

            My oldest son would vehemently disagree with the idea of pertussis being mild, even the form that the doctor declared to be mild. His “mild” case at age 14 was horrible enough that he still freaks out a little bit every time he gets a little cough because of how painful and scary even mild pertussis really is. He’s 16 now.

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 2:30 pm #

            Tell Pres. Garfield that his baby’s pertussis was mild. Sure, his other kids survived.

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 2:30 pm #

            I think the baby in question was actually a toddler

          • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
            February 1, 2016 at 2:35 pm #

            Mild disease in kids, can you not read? Deadly in babies. That is why it is so horrific, that vaccinated siblings (that dont need the vaccine protection), are infecting their own babies, because these siblings are vaccinated carriers?

          • The Computer Ate My Nym
            February 1, 2016 at 2:37 pm #

            And somehow the magic natural immunity didn’t protect the child from dying. Amazing, that. I’m sure that Garfield’s children didn’t receive vaccines. If they had perhaps the toddler wouldn’t even have gotten pertussis, much less died of it.

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 2:42 pm #

            So, let’s pretend for one second that you stupid theory about vaccine shedding carrier is true.

            In your fantasy, the older siblings are asymptomatic carriers. They give their illness to the baby and the baby dies. So we should stop vaccinating them.
            But do you realize that what would happen then is that we would have siblings who are actively sick, who would still give their illness to the baby (because they would start being contagious long before you realize they are sick) and the baby would still die. But now you’d have 5 other sick kids to take care of while you mourn your baby. How is that better?

          • yugaya
            February 1, 2016 at 4:12 pm #

            Angela I bet you’ve shoved a few natural food remedies into places and it totally worked amirite?

        • demodocus
          February 1, 2016 at 1:59 pm #

          Toddlerboy did that like 4 months ago. Totally cleaned up my Skype box. …and everything else.
          On a related note, he hasn’t stolen my tea since.

        • BeatriceC
          February 2, 2016 at 1:40 am #

          MrC tried that with unsweetened iced tea about a year ago. Thankfully my laptop survived, unlike several years prior when the redheaded wonder child dumped orange juice on the keyboard of my old laptop.

      • yugaya
        February 1, 2016 at 12:59 pm #

        My naturopath IT tech says pouring yogurt into the disc drive gets rid of infection naturally. :)))

        • Roadstergal
          February 1, 2016 at 1:00 pm #

          What about a squirt of breastmilk?

          • yugaya
            February 1, 2016 at 1:03 pm #

            Yes! I forgot! Breastmilk cures everything, even poverty according to Lancet!

          • Madtowngirl
            February 1, 2016 at 1:09 pm #

            I’m broke! Someone get me some breast milk, stat!

          • Charybdis
            February 1, 2016 at 1:25 pm #

            Maybe we can ask Amazed’s SIL, who is pumping and dumping to send us some. Or, HEY!!!!! Save it for Treasure’s college fund.

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 1:58 pm #

            Treasure could always save the frozen extras and sell it on EBay

        • Azuran
          February 1, 2016 at 1:01 pm #

          Magnets are also super effective

        • DelphiniumFalcon
          February 1, 2016 at 1:11 pm #

          Your naturopath is full of shit!

          ~*My*~ naturopath says onion discs. Has to be red, though.

        • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
          February 1, 2016 at 1:20 pm #

          This conversation is so stunningly ???? Ummm? Troll technique 3. make lots and lots of alias’s and talk nonsense to yourself…………. haha cracking me up!!!!!

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 1:21 pm #

            Yes, I’m so stunningly bored that I made several dozen different discus profiles, gave them all different activities and reading habits going back several years, just so I could troll you here today in this one comment section.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 4:03 pm #

            Well, time travel is a proven* side effect of vaccines so I guess it’s possible.

            *because Angela said it.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 3:49 pm #

            You keep accusing us of being trolls but you’ll notice than none of us has parachuted over to *your* blog to cause trouble.

            You’re in *our* playground. Why would we make up fake identities to play in our own sandbox?

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 4:17 pm #

            Because I want to be Godzilla and smash through the sandcastles.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 4:21 pm #

            Touche

        • BeatriceC
          February 2, 2016 at 1:35 am #

          Wait, I use a MacBook Air. No disc drive. What should I do now?

          • demodocus
            February 2, 2016 at 8:48 am #

            Tape the onion slice onto the back and rub garlic on the front

  25. Avinalaff
    February 1, 2016 at 12:17 pm #

    This is a bullshit article. We all know those Brazilian women were vaccinated whilst pregnant in the 10 month period preceeding the births with the DPt vaccine. There is no safety data for using this vaccine on pregnant women, zika virus has been around for year and not caused this. The whole thing is a PR exercise to divert the blame.

    • Megan
      February 1, 2016 at 12:18 pm #

      How original. No one has mentioned this enlightening viewpoint yet. /sarcasm

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 4:22 pm #

        Well, you don’t get out much do you? Have a look around, there is more beyond the myopic world of the vaccine luvvie.

        • Rachele Willoughby
          February 1, 2016 at 4:24 pm #

          What are you even talking about? Did you mean to reply to some other comment perhaps?

    • Roadstergal
      February 1, 2016 at 12:20 pm #

      Yes, all of the parachuters have come in to tell us about the magic time-traveling vaccine that has a grudge against a very specific geographical area within Brazil.

      • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
        February 1, 2016 at 12:29 pm #

        Hello Roadstergal, a new one on the thread,,,,,,,, so what is your theory, mythical mossie, all the women drank out of the same coke bottle, the fact they all got dtap in pregnancy, or of course, the fact Brazil uses 20% of the worlds horror pesticides, all by itself?

        • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
          February 1, 2016 at 12:29 pm #

          which other alias did you just parachute from?

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 12:42 pm #

            Yes, *we’re* the pseudonyms. The four of us just hang around during all the other non-trolly times having long conversations with ourselves under the several *hundred* profiles that regularly comment on this blog.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 12:44 pm #

            If we are all the same person though, I get to be Bofa.

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 12:44 pm #

            Sorry, you’re me. Remember to pick up some tofurkey tonight on the way home.

          • demodocus
            February 1, 2016 at 2:02 pm #

            Oh, and some ice cream! we’re still pregnant!

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 2:37 pm #

            Strange, when I woke up this morning I thought that we were menstruating. How awkward.

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 3:24 pm #

            Not if you have my IUD.

          • Nick Sanders
            February 1, 2016 at 3:25 pm #

            That’s gonna hurt like hell to be coming out of our penis.

          • demodocus
            February 2, 2016 at 8:51 am #

            C-section dude. That’s what the did in Junior when Aahhnold was pregnant

          • Nick Sanders
            February 2, 2016 at 12:43 pm #

            You can c-section period blood?

          • Roadstergal
            February 1, 2016 at 3:24 pm #

            I thought we had delivered and were successfully breastfeeding? I guess it’s not my turn to be Dr Kitty. 🙁

          • BeatriceC
            February 2, 2016 at 1:52 am #

            Dr. Kitty is a time traveling version of me, I thought. Now I’m confused.

        • Roadstergal
          February 1, 2016 at 12:30 pm #

          “a new one on the thread”

          No, actually.

          I don’t quite get the rest of the word salad, but if you’re the site phlebotomist that has been under-drawing our Cytochex, stop doing that.

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 12:38 pm #

          How about the outbreak of a flavivirus in a population with no prior exposure? Flaviviruses are known to cause birth defects.

    • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
      February 1, 2016 at 12:26 pm #

      Come on, it was written by a gynaecologist!! Read the whole thread and comments, they are rippers!

    • Charybdis
      February 1, 2016 at 1:08 pm #

      TDaP. Not DPt. Make a note of that, we are tired of correcting people.

    • Boris Ogon
      February 1, 2016 at 4:01 pm #

      Oh, look, it’s Philip Hills, Hope Osteopathic Clinic Essex, with yet another new pseudonym.

      • February 1, 2016 at 4:03 pm #

        Oh come on now! He’s had this account for 6 weeks now. That’s pretty good for him!

        • Boris Ogon
          February 1, 2016 at 4:06 pm #

          I haven’t been paying much attention to Disqustink.

        • Boris Ogon
          February 1, 2016 at 10:41 pm #

          Hey, wait: "joinedAt":"2016-01-15T21:28:28".

      • Who?
        February 1, 2016 at 7:58 pm #

        Is that who it is? I’ll tell my friends.

        Even assuming osteopathy was a thing serious people took seriously, who would let a tits and bums obsessed sleazebag like this guy touch them with his disgusting hands?

        • Boris Ogon
          February 1, 2016 at 10:04 pm #

          Even assuming osteopathy was a thing serious people took seriously, who would let a tits and bums obsessed sleazebag like this guy touch them with his disgusting hands?

          It’s even worse: his pseudonyms have disparaged his wife’s profession (and possibly race; I’d have to look back), as well as theism, despite his being a member of the Brentwood Catenians. He also has made an ass of the first water of himself under his own name by posting antivaccine gibberish at… the Rotary Club, his membership in which he otherwise advertises with pride.

          The first two could be ascribed to a truly pathetic attempt to pretend that he hadn’t been caught dead to rights some time ago (indeed, he’s spent plenty of posts asserting that he is not “Mr. Hill” [sic]), but once it all gets packaged up, including his choosing pseudonyms such as “fingerblaster” and “ladycum,” one’s well into “do not be alone in a room with this person” territory.

          • Who?
            February 1, 2016 at 11:57 pm #

            Ickity ick ick.

            If osteopaths had professional standards he’d be disbarred: yet another reason to avoid osteopaths.

            Poor wife.

  26. prudentplanner
    February 1, 2016 at 11:19 am #

    If
    1) there aren’t any serious consequences for non-pregnant women with Zika,
    2) the disease will become endemic,
    3) once the initial infection is over then the body has ‘beaten’ the virus,
    Then aren’t people protected by natural immunity now? (Its a real question – i’m not being intentionally anti-vax).

    Wouldn’t intentionally infecting non-pregnant people (before they get pregnant) protect them from the worst consequences of ZIKA…. Zika parties for all the teens!

    I guess we would have to know if there were any lingering effects on people who get the virus or women who are pregnant after recovering from the virus.

    • demodocus
      February 1, 2016 at 11:20 am #

      pre-teens, if the area is like my home town.

    • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
      February 1, 2016 at 11:26 am #

      Excellent comments, yes one would think, if this virus is new, and spreading rapidly, the best thing to do would be TO NOT KILL IT, as they have already told women not to fall pregnant till 2018, let everyone get zika……………which will happen by 2017, as it is spreading as rampantly as they say, and everyone will always have natural protection………… All it causes is a mild flu like illlness, never killed anyone previously.

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 12:26 pm #

        Zika is not a new virus, it has been known about for 70 years. What is new is that those Brazilian women got the DPT vaccine whilst pregnant. If they started doing that in the West we would probably see the same awful result

        • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
          February 1, 2016 at 12:48 pm #

          Yes, Avinalaff,,,,, but the post from prudent planner is excellent……… I recommend you re read it…………. IF zika is a new virus, spreading so rapidly that so many people must have got bitten, for 1200 women a month, since October ONLY are now having disabled babies, this virus i must therefore be very very rapid……….. There is no problems in the literature that says there is a problem if you get bit, while not pregnant………… Surely the best thing to do, would be to not vaccinate, let the mossie give everyone natural immunity?
          As for vaccinating pregnant women in the WEST, they started that in 2014, however, most western women get scans, ..The USA has just passed a major milestone, the late term miscarriages ( dtap? flu vaccine?), have just passed the rate of neonatal deaths……………. and that doesnt even account for the terminations, due to vaccine damage.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym
          February 1, 2016 at 1:07 pm #

          Nope. Zika only arrived in South America in the 2010s. Sorry, try again.

      • Rachele Willoughby
        February 1, 2016 at 1:14 pm #

        “…as they have already told women not to fall pregnant till 2018…”

        Simple enough. It’s not like Brazil is a devoutly catholic, anti-birth control, anti-abortion country. We’ll just tell all the wimens to keep their legs closed for two years.

    • Roadstergal
      February 1, 2016 at 11:36 am #

      “Natural” immunity is unreliable. A vaccine with an appropriate booster schedule would give more consistent immunity.

      An epidemic in French Polynesia raised the possibility of neurological risks of ‘natural’ infection to adults.

      • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
        February 1, 2016 at 12:37 pm #

        Vaccine immunity effectiveness statistics are totally reliable…… Pertussis vaccine at full vaccination works in 8 out of 10, after 5 years, it is working in only 3, after 10 years is a total 100% failure. Yep they are reliable, wherever you use the vaccine, those results are Totally reliable! Also totally reliable, is the fact, during an outbreak, all those still with pertussis immunity, due to the vaccine, actually carry the disease without symtoms, and spread it, even to newborn babies…………… RELIABLE, STATISTICS………… THEY DONT CHANGE. As for natural immunity, well that reliably goes from mother to infant in antibodies and breadmilk, unlike vaccine immunity………………. Such a shame, vaccinated mothers, no symptoms, now infecting their own newborns, and having absolutely no real immunity to pass to their infant…………… BUT THEY HAD THE SOLUTION! Vaccinate the babies, before birth, so their own mothers dont infect them! They could more easily, just admitted the failure of the vaccine, and stopped vaccinating,,,,, in 2010, when they knew the problem. By now, after 6 years, near 90% of the vaccines would have failed, and those mothers, and siblings, WOULD NO LONGER HAVE BEEN VACCINATED SYMPTOMLESS CARRIERS.

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 12:42 pm #

          Capslock doesn’t turn lies into facts.

      • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
        February 1, 2016 at 12:38 pm #

        Oh boosters, yep for pertussis and mumps, you need to vaccinate every two (2) years…………….. as for measles, it is spread amongst the vaccinated now anyway, cant vaccinate for a disease caused by the vaccination?

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 12:39 pm #

          as for measles, it is spread amongst the vaccinated now anyway

          Prove it.

    • yugaya
      February 1, 2016 at 11:38 am #

      “Wouldn’t intentionally infecting non-pregnant people (before they get
      pregnant) protect them from the worst consequences of ZIKA..”

      No. A vaccine would though.

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 12:24 pm #

        No, not having the DPT vaccine whilst pregnant would stop it, that is the only diff between these poor Brazilian women – zika virus has nothing to do with it

        • yugaya
          February 1, 2016 at 12:35 pm #

          Idiocy galore. DPT vaccine was/is not given in Brazil whilst pregnant.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym
      February 1, 2016 at 11:38 am #

      Zika is mosquito borne. You don’t want to encourage anyone to get bitten by as many mosquitoes as possible in the hopes of getting zika resistant because mosquitoes carry quite a number of other diseases as well.

      The disease is not endemic to the area. It is an invasive species, sort of like small pox a while back. While most people appear to recover from zika with few consequences, a certain number have neurologic sequelae, including a GBS type picture. Not something you want to risk.

      • Monkey Professor for a Head
        February 1, 2016 at 12:03 pm #

        Also since Zika is transmitted only by a certain species of mosquito which only lives in specific parts of the world, you would have to worry about non immune people moving into affected areas.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym
          February 1, 2016 at 12:07 pm #

          Not to mention the mosquito moving into new areas as global warming continues. Which they are. There are now Aedes mosquitoes in Texas and reports of Dengue fever. Zika is not endemic to the Americas. Remember what happened last time a non-endemic virus showed up in the Americas? It’s only a matter of time before it hits the continental US and Canada as well.

        • Avinalaff
          February 1, 2016 at 12:23 pm #

          Or if you are pregnant don’t get the DPT vaccine like those Brazlian women did, it has no safety data for use on pregnant women, but it has 2,400 parcels of data now.

    • Azuran
      February 1, 2016 at 11:52 am #

      Except that not 100% of the people will have the disease before they get pregnant. Even if the disease become endemic
      Remember how, before the chickenpox vaccine was a thing, people were super careful about not infecting adults who had never gotten it before (because apparently it’s worst in adult, not sure if it’s true, but people thought of this) The point it, despite chickenpox being endemic, not 100% of people had in before becoming adult.
      Or rubella. It was endemic, and most people got it as kids, but it was not uncommon for pregnant women to not be immune and be infected and have babies with birth defect.
      Today we also still have the 5th disease, which is also endemic, but is still being screened for in pregnant women at risk of exposure because many are not immune and it can cause abortion or birth defect.
      So no, hoping for women to be infected before pregnancy is not a good way to go.

      • Charybdis
        February 1, 2016 at 12:00 pm #

        Ask Mishimoo about how chicken pox affect adults…

      • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
        February 1, 2016 at 12:18 pm #

        Not 100% of people will have the disease before pregnancy, but geez, if it is spreading so rapidly, 4,000 in 3 months….. now how many must have been bitten, in this scenario? In another two full years, most people would have been bitten, surely? Using pesticides and vaccines, Not 100% of zika will be wiped out with all the pesticides either?? and vaccines only work in 8 out of 10 people anyway……. As for the analogy with chicken pox, this is spread, rather “shed”” by the vaccinated. This is common knowledge, so how could vaccination, prevent adults from catching chicken pox, that have never had it? Vaccinations, are making sure everyone has chicken pox. My daughter had to vaccinate all hers at once, as there is no point just vaccinating one child, as that vaccinated child, spreads it to everyone. Three schools in Australia, had this problem,, some kids went and got vaccianted, and everyone else at the school caught chicken pox off of them.

        I had chicken pox as a kid, so did all my kids, no one ever got it as an adult pre vaccine…………………… Rubella, well if mums got that as kids, before pregnancy, it was never a problem………. So why would it not be good to get naturally immunity from having zika, which is a lot less mild than the flu, as they are saying not to have babies until 2018 anyway?

        • Avinalaff
          February 1, 2016 at 12:21 pm #

          Zika is a diversion – check out the info on those Brazilian women being given the DPT vaccine whilst pregnant in the 10 month lead up to these births. The DPT vaccine has no safety data for use on pregnant women, but they do now. Zika virus has existed for 70 years prior to this event and never caused this before. What is new is that the women all got the DPT whilst pregnant. It is a diversion, just like Polio

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 12:58 pm #

            Polio was a diversion? Sorry, I’m just trying to picture this. Like government agents sneaking through open bedroom windows in the dark, paralyzing little kids…

            It was a much simpler time.

          • Charybdis
            February 1, 2016 at 1:16 pm #

            Yes, in a different continent. It is new to Brazil, so *no one* has any immunity to it. Remember your history, please. When the Europeans came to the New World, they brought all sorts of diseases with them, things that they had had and developed immunity to, but the Native Americans/South Americans had no immunity as they had never been exposed. That ended badly for the Native Americans.

            And, again. It is the TDaP that is given to people over 7 years old, including pregnant women; not the DTaP.

            Look up a Green Fish post. They give a lovely explanation of this whole thing.

      • Avinalaff
        February 1, 2016 at 12:18 pm #

        The risk to pregnant women for chickenpox infection is absolutely minimal, you are projecting a disproportionate risk stat to make a flawed point.

        • angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
          February 1, 2016 at 12:25 pm #

          And I grew up when we all got chicken pox, my kids all got chicken pox, adults never got infected! Everyone was well and truly immune by about age 8. Never ever heard of avoiding adults so they didnt catch chicken pox! Of course we stayed home, if parents wanted their kids to catch it, they sent them around to play… Gosh we certainly were not sick in bed or anything! And best thing, no one got shingles!

          • DaisyGrrl
            February 1, 2016 at 12:38 pm #

            When chicken pox went round my neighbourhood, an infant developed encephalitis as a complication from chicken pox. He was hospitalized for quite a while, and the two biggest worries were whether he would survive, and whether he would sustain permanent brain damage.
            Chicken pox is not a joke and I know adults who never got the disease as children. They were told to stay away from children who were ill.

          • Rachele Willoughby
            February 1, 2016 at 12:46 pm #

            I grew up when we all got the chicken pox too! Funny, my dad got it right along with us. Now, we can argue all day about what makes an “adult” and whether or not he really was (or is) one but he *was* 23 at the time.

          • Azuran
            February 1, 2016 at 12:54 pm #

            My uncle got shingles. He’s 80 and was never vaccinated for chickenpox or shingles.
            Also, you might want to check out real chickenpox statistic. The actual rate of exposure is 90% at 12 years old. not 100% at 8

          • Charybdis
            February 1, 2016 at 1:11 pm #

            I had chickenpox. In my hair, under my fingernails, everywhere.

            I also had an outbreak of shingles a few years ago and I’m not old enough for the shingles vaccine. Mom and Dad both had chickenpox as kids and have both had episodes of shingles.

            Your point, exactly?

        • Nick Sanders
          February 1, 2016 at 12:40 pm #

          Prove it.

        • Azuran
          February 1, 2016 at 12:49 pm #

          I never talked about chickenpox in pregnancy. I simply used it as an example that en endemic disease does not equal 100% of protected adults

        • yugaya
          February 1, 2016 at 1:10 pm #

          Minimal risk to pregnant women? You idiot: “Pregnant women who get chickenpox are at risk for serious complications. For example, 10-20% of pregnant women who get chickenpox develop pneumonia, with the chance of death as high as 40%.

          If a pregnant woman gets chickenpox while in the first or early second trimester of pregnancy, there is a small chance (0.4 – 2.0%) that the baby could be born with birth defects known as “congenital varicella syndrome.” Babies born with congenital varicella syndrome may be of low birthweight and have scarring of the skin and problems with arms, legs, brain, and eyes.

          Newborns whose mothers develop chickenpox rash
          from 5 days before to 2 days after delivery are at risk for chickenpox shortly after birth, with the chance of death as high as 30%.” http://www.cdc.gov/pregnancy/infections-chickenpox.html

    • demodocus
      February 1, 2016 at 2:03 pm #

      Rubella was endemic when and where MIL was a kid. Either she didn’t develop much immunity or she never caught it until she was pregnant with kid #1. Fortunately, he’s only blind from birth.

  27. angela coral eisenhauer (fb)
    February 1, 2016 at 7:50 am #

    Oh yeah, they already have a vaccine that prevents zika causing microcephaly, called water……………….. the microcephaly will stop come July, they removed the vaccine end of December………… still got all those vaccine damaged babies coming………… Or if you are a gynaecologist, you might be needed for all the vaccine damaged babies that mothers may be forced to terminate……………. Viva Brazil!

    • DaisyGrrl
      February 1, 2016 at 8:17 am #

      Abortion is illegal in Brazil with exceptions only for rape and to save the mother’s life. While there are those pushing for changes in t