When it comes to survival, vaccinated children are the fittest

Little boy gets a vaccination

Everyone knows that evolution works by survival of the fittest. Anti-vaxxers seem a bit confused on this point. One of the resident anti-vax trolls on this blog, ciaparker2, illustrates the problem.

Cia says:

On the one hand, weak babies and children stand a much greater chance of surviving to reproduce now than was formerly the case, which may or may not be good for them. On the other hand, the survival of the weak damages the vitality of the species, while the survival of the fittest, natural law, enhances it.

What Cia and other anti-vaxxers fail to understand is that on the cusp of 2018, vaccinated children ARE the fittest.

[pullquote align=”right” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]Fitness is measured by surviving offspring, not surviving genes.[/pullquote]

Cia and her anti-vax friends are confused about genes, fitness and natural selection.

Genes are the units of inheritance. Many genes correspond to specific traits like hair color or height. Genes can change over time because of mutations. Each time the DNA of a gene is duplicated, there is a small possibility of error, a mutation. Most errors have no impact on the animal that inherits them. Some mutations are harmful, leading to the early death of the animal. A very few mutations are beneficial; they give the animal a greater chance of surviving to reproduce.

Evolution works by natural selection, also known as “survival of the fittest.” The animals that have the greatest number of surviving offspring are the “fittest” for that environment.

Based on her comment, Cia seems to think that children who survive when they haven’t been vaccinated are fitter than those who survive because of vaccination. Therefore, vaccination decreases the overall fitness of the population.

Let’s try a thought experiment to show Cia and other anti-vaxxers the error of their “reasoning”:

Imagine a lion and a man meet on the savannah and the lion outruns the man, brings him down with his superior strength, kills the man, and eats him.

Who is fitter for the environment of the savannah? The lion, right? The lion has survived with the ability to have more offspring and the man is dead and can reproduce no more.

If a lion is fitter than the average man, how much fitter will it be compared to a man who is below average?

Imagine the same lion meets a different man who is weak, slow and nearsighted, but this man has a gun. The man aims the gun, shoots the lion and eats it.

Who is fitter in the scenario? The man, right? He survived and can go on to reproduce and the lion can’t.

What’s the difference between the two disparate outcomes? It’s the gun, right?

Possessing guns increased the fitness of the man and since his descendants have guns, too, their fitness will also be increased. That’s why there are a lot more people today than lions.

Although it looks like technology is more important than genetics, that’s not really the case. Strictly speaking, it isn’t the gun that increased the man’s fitness, it is the genes for intelligence that allowed people to invent guns. Despite the fact that lions are still bigger, faster and stronger, people are smarter and that makes them fitter. Have guns “weakened” the human genome? Have they deprived the human species of vitality? Hardly.

Vaccines are like guns.

Those who are smart enough to get them are fitter. The “vitality” of their descendants is increased. Technology doesn’t weaken the human genome; it makes those who possess technology and utilize it fitter than those who don’t. Therefore, vaccinated children are fitter than unvaccinated children.

Remember, fitness is measured by surviving offspring, not surviving genes. The lion’s genes may “stronger,” but it is just as dead when shot by the gun as it would be if humans had doubled in size, speed and strength and overpowered the lion that way.

It’s pretty obvious that children who die of disease are unfit by virtue of the fact that they can never reproduce. Back when vaccine preventable illnesses routinely carried off millions of a children each year, the children who survived were fitter than those who died. But now that vaccines can prevent death, the children who survive without vaccines are no fitter than those who survive because of vaccines. And the children who die of vaccine preventable disease because their ignorant parents withheld those vaccines are the least fit of all.

Human beings have become the most numerous large animals on the planet. We have spread to and mastered nearly every place and climate. We didn’t outcompete other animals with size, strength or speed; we outcompeted them because of intelligence. Vaccines, like all technology, doesn’t “weaken” the underlying genome; it’s the manifestation of our superior intellect. In other words, it’s a product of better genes.

2,135 Responses to “When it comes to survival, vaccinated children are the fittest”

  1. Amy Tuteur, MD
    January 16, 2018 at 3:47 pm #

    The function of the site is compromised when comments exceed 2000 so I’m closing the comments now.

  2. Jack Sprat
    January 16, 2018 at 3:01 pm #

    I’m going to add a new dimension, and thanks AT for not capping the comments yet. It did not take much digging to establish a more complete picture of this misfortunate sequence of events.
    From the CDC, Postexposure prophylaxis (PEP) : “Although the cost varies, a course of rabies immune globulin and four doses of vaccine given over a two-week period typically exceeds $3,000.” $10,000 is typical.
    This is beyond the financial capacity of the family. Does your opinion of the father’s initial response change? What component of health care failed? Mostly smart people here… GO

    Edit: The father initially stated the child fussed about needles. Could this be his deflection from “we couldn’t afford it?”

    • Tigger_the_Wing
      January 16, 2018 at 3:04 pm #

      I would happily go massively into debt to save my child’s life, no question. And I dare say that is exactly what they have done with the hospitalisation, but without the happy outcome.

      I blame a country which is wealthy enough to give everyone free healthcare, but prefers to spend the money on armaments, and on a wholly unnecessary layer – the insurance business, and its profits – between consumers and providers.

      • Jack Sprat
        January 16, 2018 at 3:07 pm #

        Thanks Tigger, as would I. This family has no assets to leverage, father is a temp worker.

        • Tigger_the_Wing
          January 16, 2018 at 3:10 pm #

          In that case, almost anywhere else in the civilised world his family’s healthcare costs would be borne by the state, even in countries such as the one I live in where wealthy people are expected to pay something towards the costs at the point of delivery. And even that is capped.

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 3:27 pm #

            Again: https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/programs.html
            Our health care system is a mess, but we’re not *that* heartless, at least not most of us. If they really couldn’t afford it, they probably qualify for Medicaid.

          • kilda
            January 16, 2018 at 3:36 pm #

            yes, he would have gotten the shots regardless. No hospital would have turned away a child exposed to rabies for inability to pay. Just as, you’ll notice, the hospital he was admitted to accepted him and provided lots of very expensive care (unfortunately it was too late).

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 3:37 pm #

            Thank you!

      • FallsAngel
        January 16, 2018 at 3:27 pm #

        Before you start blaming any country, look at this: https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/programs.html

        • Tigger_the_Wing
          January 16, 2018 at 3:40 pm #

          So, they could have had the life-saving treatment for free; and if they had followed the doctor’s advice and taken little Ryker to a hospital, they would have discovered that.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa
      January 16, 2018 at 3:13 pm #

      Edit: The father initially stated the child fussed about needles. Could this be his deflection from “we couldn’t afford it?”

      Why? Because a bad excuse is better than a good one?

      • Jack Sprat
        January 16, 2018 at 3:18 pm #

        Not arguing, simply putting it out there.

    • FallsAngel
      January 16, 2018 at 3:24 pm #

      I just posted this elsewhere on this very forum, however, given how screwy Disqus can be, I’ll post it again here. There are programs for people who can’t afford the vaccines. Big bad “Big Pharma”, Sanofi and Novartis, have such assistance programs.
      https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/programs.html

      And hey, there’s always “Go Fund Me”. They’re doing it now: https://www.gofundme.com/ryker-roques-medical-bills

      • Jack Sprat
        January 16, 2018 at 3:27 pm #

        Fair enough, thank you. Father did not graduate from school, has minimal education. How would he even be aware of such programs? Again I’m not arguing, simply trying to put a frame of reference around this. After all, it was just a little scratch.

        • FallsAngel
          January 16, 2018 at 3:35 pm #

          I would presume the people taking care of him would know how to get the father in touch with the programs. The father also had a computer and knew how to use it. There is no excuse for waiting two weeks to get care.

  3. Tigger_the_Wing
    January 16, 2018 at 1:46 pm #

    I want to know what gave me the autismz!

    After all, if it wasn’t genetic from my father and his father, why am I autistic, and my youngest sister – born twelve years after me, and in a different place – is also autistic, and yet the two intervening siblings, born in the same place I was (same room, even) aren’t autistic? ‘Tis a right puzzle, that! It couldn’t have been vaccines, because I’m much too old. I got the diseases.

    Oh, and then we have to explain why my sons, and my youngest sister’s sons, are on the spectrum, as are some of my grandkids, despite being born in different places and even different countries.

    • Roadstergal
      January 16, 2018 at 1:47 pm #

      It’s amazing how different vaccine schedules with different antigens even within vaccines for the same disease all cause the same sort of autism-spectrum in a family over time! It’s kind of like how vaccines do that with Type 1 Diabetes, isn’t it?

  4. Jack Sprat
    January 15, 2018 at 9:25 pm #

    Unfortunately, Rykar Roque has succumbed to rabies.

    • Chi
      January 15, 2018 at 9:43 pm #

      Awww. Poor little Ryker. That’s a horrible way to die and I feel so bad for his parents.

      But at the same time, I feel a bit angry at them because sometimes you have to do things in your children’s best interest, and those things may make them cry. You just gotta suck it up and deal.

      If they had gotten him the shots, it’s entirely probable that poor child didn’t have to die.

      • FallsAngel
        January 15, 2018 at 9:45 pm #

        A “bit” angry at the parents? I’m hopping mad at them for allowing a sobbing child to dictate his treatment.

        • Chi
          January 15, 2018 at 9:47 pm #

          I was trying not to be overly insensitive. They have just lost their child.

          But then, I feel like they’re cut from the same cloth as stunt homebirthers who end up with a dead baby and say ‘I didn’t think it would happen to me’.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 10:08 pm #

            I hear you. Every death is sad, and the parents meant well, but they made a very foolish decision. This isn’t a decision you leave up to your kid.

        • Roadstergal
          January 15, 2018 at 10:50 pm #

          It was just such a sequence of fail. Put something dangerous within reach of a six-year-old and tell them not to touch it?

          If they had gone ahead and gotten the kid the vaccine after that, it’s a ‘whew, that was close, very important lesson’ – but then to let the kid die from it??

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 11:00 pm #

            Doesn’t surprise me that much. I’ve seen parents back off getting their kid(s) immunizations because the child(ren) put up a fuss about getting a shot.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            January 15, 2018 at 11:36 pm #

            When I had my first kid, I was surprised by the sheer visceral reaction I had to getting her vaccinated. I knew intellectually that it was absolutely the right thing to do, but there’s something in one’s gut about holding a kid down while someone stabs them with a needle full of germs that messes with you on an instinctive, hind-brain level, or so it was for me, at least. Fortunately for DD, I am capable of higher levels of thought than the solely instinctive. 😉

          • AnnaPDE
            January 15, 2018 at 11:27 pm #

            Something exciting and cool, to boot, such as a bat.

            I mean, leaving a kid alone with some broccoli and strict instructions not to put it in their mouth is how you get vegetables into them…

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            January 15, 2018 at 11:34 pm #

            Depends a bit on the kid–at this point, I can tell Miss 3-year-old “don’t touch X,” and she won’t touch it. I suspect that her brother will not be so reliable at 3, though.
            In any case, I would bloody well NOT put a bat (?!?!!!!!!) within either kid’s reach (suppose the damn thing recovered enough to flap out of the bucket and scratch/bite?), and if they did somehow go behind my back and mess with it…? (Or, somewhat more likely, if an older kid messed with a bat after being told “if you ever see a bat, don’t touch it”…)
            TBH, I’d consider it a bit of a learning experience: “I told you not to mess with bats. Rabies–cue brief, age-appropriate explanation–is why, as I explained before. Because you did, we have to get you shots. They won’t be fun, but they’ll be a hell of a lot more fun than dying of rabies *cue another brief, age-appropriate explanation of what it’s like to die of rabies.*
            These parents, I’d cheerfully prosecute for some sort of criminal neglect. “Oh, you don’t want shots? Then I guess you magically won’t get rabies.”
            What a HORRIBLE way for anyone to go, much less a six-year-old child.

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 11:38 pm #

            this was basically like leaving a loaded gun near the kid and saying don’t touch it – just playing out in much slower motion. 🙁

          • Who?
            January 16, 2018 at 12:30 am #

            And as we know, when adults do just that, it is widely agreed that the living adult has ‘suffered enough’ ie that the death caused by their negligence has caused them so much grief that they should not be punished for it by the legal system.

            That disrespect for children makes me rage.

          • FormerPhysicist
            January 16, 2018 at 11:54 am #

            I’m not a big fan of the legal system or the prison system. I can’t see what good it will do anyone to arrest, try, and jail the parents. It’s not about them ‘suffering enough’ for me, it’s that it just doesn’t serve any purpose. They aren’t a continuing threat to anyone because of this. And it doesn’t help Ryker either to show this ‘respect’.

          • kilda
            January 16, 2018 at 12:44 pm #

            it does make me wonder just how bad their judgement is and how that will affect any other children they have. They showed massive and repeated bad judgement: bringing a sick bat home, leaving it where a child could get to it, not taking said child for immediate medical care when he was scratched by it.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 1:36 pm #

            Perhaps not prison, but if negligent parents were given community service and regular supervision by a child welfare officer, it would send a message to all other parents that this behaviour is not acceptable, and that society takes the responsibility to do right by vulnerable people seriously.

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 11:59 am #

            Yeah, and that’s not the worst of it. The kid cried at the idea of shots, so the parents didn’t take him in for care. That’s what really gets my hackles up!

          • MaineJen
            January 16, 2018 at 12:02 pm #

            I’ve been on the receiving end of enough tantrums that I can….like…KIND OF get it? When the stakes aren’t high, sometimes you have to pick your battles.

            But, when the alternative is death??? No, you don’t give in.

            I have to think there was a healthy dose of “it won’t happen to us. Bad things only happen to other people.” Now where have we seen that before?

          • StephanieJR
            January 16, 2018 at 2:36 pm #

            And maybe a dash of ‘can’t be bothered’; it’s kinda dangerous, but you don’t think it’s that big a deal, kid doesn’t really need the shots, too big a fuss to make, we don’t have time to go, etc. And now they’ve lost their little boy.

          • Bored Now
            January 16, 2018 at 2:38 pm #

            One of the reasons I talk to vaccine critical folk on the internet is because I find it gives me insight into the various ways we can end up acting irrationally. Evidence suggests that they knew rabies was a possibility. So I really wish I knew how they rationalized this.

            Did they actually not know that rabies is the almost perfect killing machine? Are there websites that say: “Rabies isn’t so bad”? Did a 6% chance (percentage of bats with rabies) seem like a good time to roll the dice?

          • shay simmons
            January 16, 2018 at 3:08 pm #

            Well, our buddy ros (remember her?) has gone on record as stating she would only seek homeopathic treatment if she were exposed to rabies.

          • Bored Now
            January 16, 2018 at 3:14 pm #

            …and Ron Roy said that he could withstand rabies on his diet alone. This boys death is on their conscience since they could have easily cured him….. Unless of course they’re both talking through their asses.

          • shay simmons
            January 16, 2018 at 3:22 pm #

            Ron claims he can cure anything with diet alone, remember?

          • Bored Now
            January 16, 2018 at 3:24 pm #

            I wonder if he will decline to comment on how he could have effected a cure.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 3:14 pm #

            That sounds positively suicidal, but then I’ve never lived in a country that had endemic rabies, so I’m very fortunate not to have to consider the consequences of a bite or treatment (unless I had been bitten when on holiday). Also, I’ve always lived in countries where the government has taken on most of the responsibility for providing healthcare, so cost hasn’t ever been a consideration either.

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 3:19 pm #

            I may be going out on a limb here, but I’d say that rabies is such a public health emergency that the govt would pick up the cost of the vaccines here, too.

            Well. . . I guess I don’t have to worry about my limb breaking; here is some info from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/programs.html
            For those who won’t open links, yes, the drug companies (Big Pharma) does have programs for people who can’t afford the rabies vaccines.

          • shay simmons
            January 16, 2018 at 3:22 pm #

            This is an individual who pops up whenever homeopathy is the topic of discussion. I don’t know their current location but she has mentioned that she used to live in Africa.

            She is a true believer.

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 3:13 pm #

            I gave in plenty on clothes, foods (yes, you can have a bag of chips 10 minutes before dinner), etc, but I was in charge for health care, and my kids never gave me much flak about it.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 3:18 pm #

            I was always completely honest with my kids about vaccination. I told them that it would hurt for a count of three, but not very much and only in the place where the needle went in, and then it would stop hurting forever – and that was a lot better than getting really, really sick and hurting all over, all day, every day, for at least a week.

            Edited to add:

            When they got old enough to be smart-arses, I’d be mocked because they didn’t get anywhere near ‘three’ before it stopped hurting.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            January 16, 2018 at 12:09 pm #

            I am trying to understand. Above there are a bunch of comments about whether they could know that bats carry rabies.

            But doesn’t the fact that they refused to get the kid shots because he didn’t like needles indicate they knew rabies were a risk? If they didn’t know about rabies, why were they concerned about getting the kid a shot?

          • kilda
            January 16, 2018 at 12:43 pm #

            yes and they knew enough to tell him not to touch the bat in the first place. It really seems like they knew enough to be properly scared but just somehow weren’t.

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 12:50 pm #

            The story I read said that they called – I wasn’t sure if it was the hospital or their doctors’ office, but some legit medical center – and were told about rabies and to come in for the shots. So, utterly inexcusable.

          • kilda
            January 16, 2018 at 1:13 pm #

            wow. yes, if that’s true, then that really is inexcusable. Honestly, if someone told them that, and they still didn’t do it, I think they should have charges filed against them. That’s even more culpable than the idiots who let their child die of meningitis while treating it homeopathically.

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 3:09 pm #

            Good questions, and I think you know the answers. Certainly if the dad googled “bat bites” he came across the information.

          • January 16, 2018 at 8:08 am #

            Yeah, one screwup is understandable, and I wouldn’t want to beat up parents for a lapse in judgment; persisting in it to the point where you don’t get proper medical treatment, though, is pretty awful.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 16, 2018 at 8:51 am #

            Basically how I feel. A surprising number of people don’t know that bat bites can transmit rabies. The fact that Dad let the kid come into contact with the bat is bad, but not the primary parenting failure here. He googled what to do about bat inflicted wounds. He knew that vaccination was the only choice. They decided to wash the wound and call it a day. That’s where it becomes inexcusable.

          • kilda
            January 16, 2018 at 10:29 am #

            that’s what blows my mind. Right now if you google rabies and bat, all that comes up is 1000 articles about this poor child. But I can’t imagine that when he googled something like “child scratched by sick bat” he didn’t see a whole bunch of pages telling him to get his child seen by a doctor immediately. I don’t understand how he could do that google search and conclude that washing it out really well was a viable option.

          • MaineJen
            January 16, 2018 at 12:06 pm #

            Who knows? He may have come across some loony page like our friend Cia would consult, saying “people can develop rabies antibodies naturally, all you have to do is wash out the wound, pharma shillz are just trying to sell you vaccine” etc.

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 12:50 pm #

            It’s a nonzero chance that Cia Parker has a body count.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 16, 2018 at 1:19 pm #

            He totally saw all those articles and ignored them.

            But anyone who doubts people’s ignorance about rabies should ask around. You’re going to find people who don’t know that bats are even mammals

            /Former science museum employee and recipient of post exposure rabies shots

          • Empress of the Iguana People
            January 16, 2018 at 11:36 am #

            i wonder if there was a bit of an epidemic in my area when I was little with the bats, because I was under the impression that bats might have rabies was common knowledge. Ah well.

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 11:39 am #

            I got that hammered into my head at a young age, as well. Dogs and bats. Hm, I wonder if it was a Midwest thing?

            Which is a pity, because I love bats. 🙁

          • Empress of the Iguana People
            January 16, 2018 at 11:41 am #

            not with my family; we’re Connecticuters

          • FormerPhysicist
            January 16, 2018 at 11:51 am #

            Raised in VA. Knew that bats can have rabies. Also knew to get information and treatment if ANY animal bites or scratches you.

          • momofone
            January 16, 2018 at 11:45 am #

            Same here, except I’m in the South. It was drilled into us never to approach animals we didn’t know because of rabies.

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 11:55 am #

            Pennsylvania, too! Also here in CO where I now live.

          • MaineJen
            January 16, 2018 at 11:51 am #

            I recently went to an ID seminar on rabies…that is some Scary Shit. There are cases all the time where a bat is found in someone’s bedroom (flies in through a window), and they are given the vaccine series because there’s basically no way of knowing whether they’ve been bitten or scratched in their sleep, especially if it’s a young child or a disabled person who’s unable to speak. Bat teeth are like little needles, and they often leave such a tiny mark (or no mark at all!) that you wouldn’t think anything of it.

            Bottom line: do not touch a bat. Like, ever.

            I never liked bats to begin with. Now….NOPE

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 11:55 am #

            Noooo, they’re adorable! 🙁 Especially little bat puppies!

            Stupid rabies.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuvaos1WHTk

          • MaineJen
            January 16, 2018 at 11:58 am #

            It’s the fingers. I just…I can’t

          • StephanieJR
            January 16, 2018 at 2:28 pm #

            Sky doggies!

            I would love to pet a fruit bat, in a wildlife centre or something. They’re so cute.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            January 16, 2018 at 12:06 pm #

            One of my favorite summertime activities is to sit in the lawnswing and watch the bats swoop by.

            Last year had bats move into the bathouse.

          • MaineJen
            January 16, 2018 at 12:08 pm #

            I agree, I like watching bats fly, because they eat mosquitoes, and mosquitoes suck. And because they fly far, far up in the air 🙂

          • The Bofa on the Sofa
            January 16, 2018 at 12:11 pm #

            Bats around us will swoop down to under 10 feet. They’ve never come close to my head, but they’ve flown over.

          • The Vitaphone Queen
            January 16, 2018 at 12:15 pm #

            For a second there I thought it said “bathhouse”. Oops.

          • Amazed
            January 16, 2018 at 9:53 am #

            Yeah. I didn’t know bats can transmit rabies. I don’t know which animal can transmit what. This is why I always go with the safe side – go over to the hospital and freaking ask!

            For the record: I did know a dog that bit me could have inflicted me with rabies. That’s why I headed over to the hospital, the needle and so on.

          • January 16, 2018 at 9:54 am #

            Ooh, scary! Yikes.

      • Jack Sprat
        January 15, 2018 at 10:19 pm #

        We call it adulting. Some times you get tired of adulting, however it is singly the most important job you can have; and there is no day off.

        • Claire Secrist
          January 15, 2018 at 10:24 pm #

          It comes down to exactly this. They had a responsibility, they were told the seriousness of the risk, and they chose this path.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 10:25 pm #

            And it sucks.

      • Claire Secrist
        January 15, 2018 at 10:21 pm #

        The odds approach 100% that he would have survived. It’s. It’s not just probable, it’s almost certain. They signed his death certificate.

      • Kerlyssa
        January 16, 2018 at 6:39 am #

        i’m taking a bit of solace in that the treatment used for symptomatic rabies meant that he wasn’t awake and suffering, at least

    • FallsAngel
      January 15, 2018 at 9:44 pm #

      I hate to upvote that!

      • Roadstergal
        January 15, 2018 at 10:02 pm #

        Yes. “Thank you for delivering the information, but fuck, that information…” 🙁

    • Box of Salt
      January 15, 2018 at 9:51 pm #

      I am so sorry for the boy and his family.

    • Namaste
      January 15, 2018 at 10:12 pm #

      I can’t say I’m surprised. The Milwaukee Protocol may be the only thing we can do, but it’s still a real long shot. I am trying very hard to show a modicum of understanding to the parents, but i have to admit, it isn’t easy. They really dropped the ball. I’m sure they know that, though, and I’m sure they will be haunted by that knowledge for the rest of their lives.

    • Tigger_the_Wing
      January 16, 2018 at 5:34 am #

      Poor, poor lad. I’m heartbroken. I knew there was very little chance of saving him, but I wanted desperately for him to be the exception.

      I’d like to shake those parents so hard – and keep shaking them. And then shake all the parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids, and show them all the tiny coffins their selfish attitude fills.

    • Amazed
      January 16, 2018 at 6:14 am #

      Poor little guy. And for what? To spare him some crying? Does someone think that he did not cry when he was hooked to all those machines in the hospital?

      I want to slap his parents right across their murdering faces. These monsters killed their child. End of story.

  5. Jack Sprat
    January 15, 2018 at 8:04 pm #

    So close to 2000! Come on now!

    • Tigger_the_Wing
      January 16, 2018 at 5:21 am #

      2053! I expect it’ll be closed when AT wakes up.

  6. January 15, 2018 at 6:52 pm #

    I will take 40C any day of the week! Right now we’re dropping to about -5C and you’d think the world is ending 🙂

  7. Tigger_the_Wing
    January 14, 2018 at 5:29 pm #

    LOL. Nearly woke hubby!

  8. John Snow
    January 13, 2018 at 2:02 pm #

    vaccines = autism

    • Nick Sanders
      January 13, 2018 at 2:28 pm #

      assertion ≠ truth

    • Roadstergal
      January 13, 2018 at 2:29 pm #

      Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m convinced.

      • Tigger_the_Wing
        January 13, 2018 at 4:42 pm #

        Must be because he upvoted his own comment, yes? That’s always convincing.

    • Claire Secrist
      January 13, 2018 at 2:29 pm #

      How many clowns can fit in this car, anyway?

      Hopefully you have a point. Not everyone is a bigot against people with autism, so we fail to see what point you’re making even if that hilariously discredited nonsense were accurate.

    • Jack Sprat
      January 13, 2018 at 3:50 pm #

      Is it raining in Palm Beach today?

    • Tigger_the_Wing
      January 13, 2018 at 4:43 pm #

      Wrong. It’s autism = vaccines.

      https://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4033

    • Azuran
      January 13, 2018 at 5:47 pm #

      You know nothing, John Snow.

    • namaste
      January 13, 2018 at 6:21 pm #

      It’s spelled Jon Snow, not John. Just so you know.

      • Tigger_the_Wing
        January 13, 2018 at 6:44 pm #

        Not if he’s named after the English Doctor who was ‘one of the fathers of modern epidemiology’ as Wikipedia puts it, but yes, the English newsreader, brother of Peter Snow, is Jon.

        • Who?
          January 13, 2018 at 6:46 pm #

          I think namaste may have been making a Game of Thrones reference…

          JS is wrong, whoever he is referencing.

        • namaste
          January 13, 2018 at 6:47 pm #

          I was thinking along the lines of the Game of Thrones character, which I assumed he was referencing.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 13, 2018 at 7:44 pm #

            Ah, sorry; I haven’t read those books.

        • StephanieJR
          January 14, 2018 at 10:53 am #

          I just love watching Jon Snow dance.

    • Who?
      January 13, 2018 at 6:35 pm #

      Well, now you put it that way….

      I can confidently ignore you.

    • ciaparker2
      January 13, 2018 at 6:52 pm #

      Absolutely right about that. Vaccines = autism, murder, seizure disorders, cancer, asthma, allergies, Kawasakis, PANDAS, retardation, but the purveyors of the mandated poisons will not stop until they’ve forced them into every last person in the world. Literally the last persons in the world.

      • Tigger_the_Wing
        January 13, 2018 at 6:59 pm #

        Which is why, with increasing numbers of vaccines, the population of the world has plummeted in my lifetime…

        No, wait. It has actually trebled and people are healthier than they’ve ever been, and living longer. Much longer. But you won’t respond to this, because it blows your assertions out of the water.

      • Roadstergal
        January 14, 2018 at 11:51 am #

        I’m sticking with my theory from the other day. Starving her newborn to the point where her pediatrician was shocked was a turning point for Cia Parker. She either had to realize that she did a bad thing that has real negative consequences, despite meaning well – or build a narrative where everything she did was right, and it was all the fault of… the vaccines, yes, that was it! And she now is so invested in this narrative that all she can do is double, triple, quadruple down. If you’re trying to make starving a baby look like a minor act, you have to believe the people who don’t agree with you are literally tossing babies in furnaces…

        • Daleth
          January 14, 2018 at 2:11 pm #

          Starving her newborn to the point where her pediatrician was shocked was a turning point for Cia Parker. She either had to realize that she did a bad thing that has real negative consequences, despite meaning well – or build a narrative where everything she did was right, and it was all the fault of… the vaccines

          I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Cia, can you forgive yourself for nearly starving your baby? You didn’t mean to do it, you didn’t know you were doing it, you loved him and meant well. Can you forgive yourself?

          You don’t have to spend your life being angry at something. You don’t have to choose between being angry at yourself or being angry at “Big Pharma.”

          People make life-altering mistakes. There are people whose mistakes killed an innocent person, or more than one innocent person. Yours didn’t, but it was life altering. But can you forgive yourself, please?

    • The Vitaphone Queen
      January 14, 2018 at 6:24 am #

      Anti-vaccine rhetoric = ableism

      • ciaparker2
        January 14, 2018 at 12:23 pm #

        You remind me of the rabbit owner here who said, that if her rabbit had a disabling reaction to the myxo vaccine, that’s all right, she’d love her anyway. No thought to her own guilt in making the decision which resulted in her disability. Oh, sure, I crippled you, you can no longer hop around and are in great pain because of my mistaken decision to vax you. But that’s all right, I screwed up, I love you anyway.

        You seem to now be admitting that vaccines do horrendous and permanent lifelong damage to a large percentage of those who get them. True. But you seem to be saying That’s all right, we’ll love them anyway. Sure, we’ll be glad to see our taxes quadruple to feed, house, clothe, protect, and entertain the millions of those brain-damaged by vaccines, or who suffer horrendously from autoimmune conditions caused by vaccines. WE don’t care if we robbed you of your ability to use or understand language or maintain friendships or employment. WE will say to our dying breath how great you are despite our having deprived you of everything which makes life worth living, so we don’t have to say that WE are criminals who disabled you for our own profit.

        So far you’re just asserting your great love for those disabled by vaccines, but without yet coming forward with actual provisions for their care and safety. And you haven’t yet put the decision as to whether or not to risk the enormous dangers of vaccines into the hands of well-informed parents.

        • The Vitaphone Queen
          January 14, 2018 at 12:37 pm #

          Even if I had children OR pets who were vaccine-injured, I WOULD STILL LOVE THEM. So yes, I am like StephanieJR.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 12:46 pm #

            You’re really that dense? The question is, that if you’re drunk and carelessly shoot someone in your yard thinking it’s a burglar, and it turns out to be your child, does it really matter if you still love the child or not? You caused his death or serious injury by your reckless behavior. OBVIOUSLY you continue to love your child. But you killed him because of your criminal negligence.

          • The Vitaphone Queen
            January 14, 2018 at 12:47 pm #

            There is a difference between drunkenly shooting your child (or anyone else) and VACCINATING YOUR CHILD. Vaccines SAVE LIVES.

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 1:06 pm #

            Don’t bother with her. She’s obviously gone off the rails. The rest of us know what you’re saying.

          • Box of Salt
            January 14, 2018 at 1:33 pm #

            She’s already in the process of disengaging this discussion: see her bragging about how many commenters she’s blocked.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 2:04 pm #

            And FA is one of them.

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 2:18 pm #

            I’m crushed!

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:07 pm #

            OK. Iron deficiency can cause death. So it’s a good idea to give iron supplements to those who may be deficient. But is it a good idea to give triple the recommended dose every day for ten years? If you were to do so, you would be negligently doing something which is going to kill the person you’re giving it to. You meant to save his life, and instead you kill him.

            Vaccines can save lives. Agreed. But not as often as the medical establishment says, and vaccines also very often cause severe damage. The immune system always reacts to vaccines with inflammation: if it didn’t, no antibodies would be produced. But this inflammation is often excessive, especially if the baby is very young, has gotten a lot of other vaccines, or is genetically more vulnerable to vaccine damage than most. And it often causes inflammation of the brain (encephalitis), causing stroke-like damage, inflammation of the digestive tract (bowel disease), or inflammation of any other organ or body system. And it often sensitizes the immune system to vaccine ingredients, resulting in any of hundreds of autoimmune diseases.

            Every parent has to research the vaccines available and the incidence and seriousness of the vaccine-preventable diseases in his or her time and place. Remembering, of course, that some diseases might/would come back if a lot of people stopped vaxxing for them. It is a complex decision, but since their child’s life and mind are riding on their decision, they have to buckle down, research it carefully, and make a decision. Remembering that nearly all doctors have decided to play along with the pharma companies’ lying propaganda. Not everything they say about vaccines and VPDs is false, but a lot of it is, and it’s up to the parents to research it, and not believe anything medical professionals say without independent verification. The childhood diseases are GOOD for children to get naturally, meaning measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox. They should deliberately be offered to schoolchildren at the end of the school year to let them get natural and permanent immunity. Offered, not forced. A different disease every year. Maybe measles first grade, chickenpox second grade, mumps third grade, and rubella fourth grade. Diseases like flu, hep-A, rotavirus, and pertussis are rarely dangerous in the well-nourished developed world, and parents should be taught appropriate ways of nursing children who have them, with no fever reducers. A and C as appropriate. Homeopathic remedies in the case of threatened complications. Most children have immunity to local kinds of meningitis by the age of five, but parents must know the symptoms of meningitis and get conventional medical treatment with antibiotics as quickly as possible if these symptoms manifest. Parents must consider their own circumstances and make a choice. Hib only if the baby under 18 months old is not breastfed and is in daycare. I think the DT is good for most children to get after two years old. The polio series only if polio came back here, and no compulsion: it remains true that even during the worst of the polio outbreaks, most children got immunity from subclinical polio, or just got a flu-like illness and never permanent paralysis. I personally would get it for my daughter if polio came back, but would leave it to the parents to decide in their own cases. No hep-B for any child but those born to infected mothers or those with a close family member who had it (although in that case the family might just choose to be very careful about not letting the children have contact with infected blood). No HPV vaccine, which is very dangerous.

          • Azuran
            January 14, 2018 at 1:20 pm #

            And how do you think ‘offering’ to infect kids is going to turn out? Those kids will be contagious and they will contaminate the kids whose parent’s have declined to infect, or babies in parks or supermarket.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:26 pm #

            Did I mention polio as one of the harmless childhood diseases I’d want to deliberately give children? Please give the passage in which I said that. I did not. I said that polio was usually harmless, and that I would not force parents to get it for their children if that were their well-informed choice. I said that IF polio came back I’d give the vaccine booster to my daughter, but would not force others to do the same.

            Yes, the kids would be contagious. I said the end of the school year so they could stay home for a few weeks. Everyone in the community would be informed as to this practice, and everyone could take the measures that seemed appropriate to him. Vaccine boosters if they chose. Take the chance of getting the usually harmless diseases, nurse them correctly, and get their benefits, if that’s what they chose. Keep young babies sheltered at home for their protection, treat with high-dose IV vitamin C, homeopathic, and naturopathic remedies as appropriate. The childhood diseases I mentioned were all viral, so in the absence of bacterial complications, antibiotics would not be called for.

          • Azuran
            January 14, 2018 at 1:32 pm #

            You still think that even OFFERING people to contaminate their child with polio should be a things. That is absolutely disgusting.
            And it doesn’t matter if it’s the beginning of the summer PARENTS WORK They send their kids to summer camps, kids go outside and play with one another during the summer. People can’t take weeks off to keep their kids home. You can’t ask everyone who might be vulnerable to stay inside for weeks because it’s the time of the year where we purposefully infect kids. You’d be forcing MILLIONS of people to lock themselves inside their homes and stop going to work for weeks, ALL AT THE SAME TIME every single week. You’d destroy the freaking economy!!!

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:54 pm #

            I did not say that. Read it again. I said that people should be offered to have their child deliberately given the natural diseases measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox (one at a time). I did not say polio. I said that if polio came back, people should know that it is usually harmless. And that is true. There seems to be an anatomical susceptibility to developing a crippling case. But I certainly recognize how devastating it could be in those cases. I said that I’d get the vaccine booster for my own daughter if it came back here, but would let others choose for themselves, since the polio vaccine, like all others, CAN be very dangerous, even fatal.

          • Roadstergal
            January 14, 2018 at 1:56 pm #

            Why don’t we have polio here anymore, Cia?

          • Jack Sprat
            January 14, 2018 at 2:48 pm #

            Me thinks you be blocked too.

          • Roadstergal
            January 14, 2018 at 3:04 pm #

            I’m sure I am. It’s still useful to expose Cia Parker’s nutbaggery for the nutbaggery it is.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 6:42 pm #

            “I did not say that. Read it again. I said that people should be offered
            to have their child deliberately given the natural diseases measles,
            mumps, rubella, and chickenpox (one at a time). I did not say polio. I
            said that if polio came back, people should know that it is usually
            harmless. And that is true.”

            You have said that before Cia.
            This is what you claimed:
            “Natural diseases are harmless and beneficial and should be encouraged, as they confer permanent immunity and avoid the need for dangerous vaccines which all cause encephalitis which causes stroke-like lesions in the brain, causing autism in the majority of children who get them.
            I favour the option of letting children get the various diseases naturally, starting with measles, pertussis, mumps, rubella, polio and Hepatitis, and letting them get strains of meningitis bacteria which are harmless in children and build up immunity against later invasive infection.”

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 6:56 pm #

            If vaccines cause autism in the majority of children who get them, why isn’t the prevalence >90%? 😀

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 6:59 pm #

            Well she won’t say but I suspect she thinks it just hasn’t manifested properly yet.
            The vaccines all cause “encephalitis”, which causes damage to the language and cognitive areas in the brain, which causes autism.
            So that would mean we all have autism.
            And that’s before we even get to the evil toxins like saline, sucrose and of course extremely heavy metals like Aluminium are taken into account!

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:58 pm #

            Boy, you’re non compos mentes. Are you a native speaker of English? I said that the program I propose would be advertised by all the media, and everyone in the community could choose whether to get the vaccines for the diseases or take their chances with maybe getting them. I SAID I’d offer to give all first graders natural measles at the end of the first grade year, all second graders chickenpox, etc. What would be at the same time every single week? In a short time, everyone susceptible would either have had the vaccines or the natural diseases and have permanent immunity.

            I don’t care what they choose. But the greatest benefit for the greatest number of children would be for them to get the natural diseases, and everyone would have to work out how to deal with the temporary inconveniences. They would all be a LOT easier to deal with than a lifetime with autism.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 14, 2018 at 5:12 pm #

            Hey real quick, explain again why anyone here is supposed to take you seriously when you spend all your free time doing this. I’m starting to believe your daughter doesn’t exist, because I couldn’t fit care for a disabled person into a full time schedule crapping in comments sections.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 5:28 pm #

            She posts way more than I do, and I spend my life mostly in bed with nothing else to do but go online. Arthritis flare-up making it impossible for me to crochet at the moment.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 5:15 pm #

            If you don’t care what they choose, why are you pontificating on a subject about which you remain woefully undereducated?

            People already get to choose; vaccination isn’t compulsory. Your comments show that you really do hate that 95%+ of people think that you lot are nuts, and happily get themselves and their offspring and pets vaccinated against diseases.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 8:00 pm #

            You’re obviously no Latin scholar. It’s non compos mentis. Don’t criticise another person for your own faults.

            When I was a kid, and those diseases were rampant because we didn’t yet have vaccines available, they didn’t dutifully restrict themselves to one year group of children. They’d sweep through the entire school.

          • Mishimoo
            January 15, 2018 at 6:29 pm #

            Don’t be silly Azuran – she probably expects women to stay at home and nurse the children, not both parents! It would still mess up the economy, but at least her goal would be achieved: women out of the workforce, out of fulfilling work, and back home where they belong.

          • Azuran
            January 14, 2018 at 1:34 pm #

            Also stupid to think that this would all die off after 2-3 weeks, those kids you infected would be contagious, they would infect other people, who would infect other people and on and on and on. It wouldn’t die out after 1-2 weeks, you’d cause an epidemic that would last months every single year.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:49 pm #

            Stupid not to realize that in a short time, a few months, in many cases, everyone susceptible would have been exposed to the disease(s) and either gotten a clinical or subclinical case. That’s the way diseases work, they burn through a population and then die down, because there aren’t many people still susceptible around. And then, yes, every few years there would be another outbreak, and the new children would get it. Just the way it used to be. And everyone would get the stronger, better-trained immune system conferred by the natural diseases. But yes, everyone afraid of the diseases would know that they should get the vaccine for them and take their chances with that.

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 1:53 pm #

            You don’t know a damn thing about epidemiology, parker. The incubation period for measles, you dope, is up to three weeks. Why were these diseases endemic in the US prior to vaccine, if your program works? Please explain in great detail.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 7:20 pm #

            Her programme of “natural infection”, would, according to data produced by JAMA, mean that there would be the following each year:
            https://www.drclaudiaanrig.com/research/JAMA%20Historical%20Comparisons%20of%20Morbidity%20and%20Mortality%20for%20Vaccine-Preventable%20Diseases%20in%20the%20United%20States.pdf

            Measles… 440 deaths
            Mumps …..39
            Diphtheria..1822
            Pertussis….4000
            Rubella…….17
            Cong Rubella 2000
            Tetanus……472
            Acute Hep A 137
            Acute HepB..237
            HiB…………..1000
            Pneumococcus 6500
            Varicella…….105

            Grand total = 16,769 deaths each year.
            I leave out Polio, because she seems to have changed her mind about that one now.

            Of course, she says that none will die, because she will personally ensure they all get Vitamin C, homeopathy, avoid fever suppressors and are nursed in darkened rooms.

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 7:25 pm #

            As cia has said, she can live with that.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 7:30 pm #

            I don’t even want to know about the long term disability numbers…

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 7:57 pm #

            Which sick adults is she volunteering to nurse?

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 8:00 pm #

            Just pray you never get ill…

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 8:02 pm #

            I’m laughing again, but having to suppress it. Pain keeping me awake, but hubby is sleeping.

          • momofone
            January 15, 2018 at 1:34 am #

            Just make sure that vitamin C is administered via IV and everyone will be fine.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 5:32 am #

            Just so long as it isn’t vitamin K. For some reason, giving that life-saving vitamin is anathema to the cult.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 15, 2018 at 8:37 am #

            The C stands for “Cure”, the K stands for “Kill”. I thought everyone knew how vitamins were named!

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 5:12 pm #

            What the hell is the point in having a trained immune system if you’ve already had the diseases?

            The point of vaccines, as people keep telling you, is to train the immune system without taking on the risks, the suffering and the damage of the actual full-blown diseases. Oh, and avoiding death and disability, of course. How does dying make a baby’s immune system stronger?

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 5:16 pm #

            Do keep up Tigger: it’s so you maybe won’t get cancer you probably would not have got anyway, decades down the track.

            Only the poor, brown or otherwise disadvantaged usually die, and cia is unconcerned with those people. And anyone rich and white who dies is just unlucky, and also a victim of modern medicine’s failure to pull miracles out of a hat, and cia doesn’t care for unlucky people either.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 6:30 pm #

            It’s amazing how many people my age and older I know, who got cancer despite having had all those diseases. It’s almost as if cia is… shhhhh… lying.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 14, 2018 at 5:22 pm #

            Cia thinks valid babies don’t die.

          • Roadstergal
            January 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm #

            You sure do push homeopathic crap a lot. By Cia Parker logic, that means you’re getting kickbacks from Big Placebo.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 6:46 pm #

            Your entire family seems to be incredibly unhealthy, and prone to recurrent diseases and infections, Cia.

            Could your aversion to vaccines be in any way connected?
            (Well that as well as your repeated deliberate attempts, sometimes successful, to infect your poor daughter with infections).

          • joe
            January 14, 2018 at 8:08 pm #

            “polio was usually harmless,”Yeah tell that to my three schoolmates that died of Polio in 1954.

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 8:26 pm #

            What an absolute disaster for those children and their families and classmates. And what a traumatic thing for a community to go through.

            Look out for cia saying they must have been poor/brown/undernourished or otherwise unworthy of life. Because those, according to cia, are the only people who die of vpd, and their deaths are okay.

          • joe
            January 14, 2018 at 8:32 pm #

            Once again sir, you hit the nail on the head, and yes we all know Cia.

          • Acleron
            January 15, 2018 at 5:11 am #

            People survive Ebola, therefore it is harmless. Sheesh

          • Mike Stevens
            January 15, 2018 at 8:52 am #

            In fact, Cia is on record somewhere saying ebola is not dangerous (except to a select few unfortunates who are black or poor or something). She cites the lower case fatality rates from more recent outbreaks as indicating the virus has become non-pathogenic.

            Whilst there is some biological drive to evolve in this manner, it does not happen over months or even years, as Cia thinks, it takes decades/centuries to happen.

          • Acleron
            January 15, 2018 at 9:05 am #

            I suspect the lower fatality rate is more to do with the heroic efforts of the local health care workers. The after effects of Ebola, if survived, is nothing to enjoy either as Pauline Cafferkey would endorse.

          • shay simmons
            January 15, 2018 at 3:09 pm #

            I suspect the lower fatality rate is more to do with the heroic efforts of the local health care workers.

            Many of whom paid the ultimate price, including high-ranking public health officials.

            http://www.who.int/features/ebola/health-care-worker/en/

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 8:28 pm #

            Your daughter caught EV-D68, coughed for over a month, and lost some of her hearing due to meningitis, and all you can say is ‘otherwise completely recovered’?! How on Earth can you be so heartless? This is a girl who is already suffering, and you brush off a dreadful bout of illness, resulting in further disability, as if it were nothing?

            I sincerely hope that the meningitis was ‘diagnosed’ by you, and is as imaginary as the vaccine reaction you invented to blame for her disability. Poor girl.

          • Empress of the Iguana People
            January 14, 2018 at 8:52 pm #

            It was only a -little- hearing loss. Most of the time Cia doesn’t even notice. /s
            (Truly, Dem and I don’t think about mine often, since my good ear works just fine.)

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 11:25 pm #

            ciaparker2: “She had mild hearing loss in one ear as a result of meningitis associated with the illness, otherwise completely recovered.”

            That’s a keeper..

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 11:29 pm #

            This is the first time we’ve heard about this! The story is ever-changing.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:21 pm #

            I am so happy to see so many avatars with “This user is blocked” beside them.

          • Box of Salt
            January 14, 2018 at 1:31 pm #

            ciaparker, it’s really brave of you to ignore those who disagree with you.
            /sarcasm.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 3:37 pm #

            You do realise that you are the only one who sees that, right? Everyone can still see what you have typed, everyone can still respond, and everyone but you can read the responses. The only person remaining wilfully ignorant is you.

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 4:47 pm #

            No, no she doesn’t realise that. She thinks she has made them disappear.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 5:05 pm #

            Thanks for the laugh!

            “Abracadabra!”

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 6:47 pm #

            Here is another one Cia.
            And you’ll never know what I am saying about you…..

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 7:06 pm #

            Funny that..

            ciaparker2 can figure out how to block someone on Disqus.

            But.. everything else (change your avatar, post an image to a discussion, *and and..) … is beyond her abilities and comprehension of this e-platform.

            … …

            ( *Recall her claims of being ‘stealth blocked’ and her comments being removed by ‘one of us’ … till ‘she clicks them back in’ from her profile page.)

          • Roadstergal
            January 14, 2018 at 1:25 pm #

            Do parents also have to research and decide for themselves about whether a week without food is good for a newborn? Or do you just take that as read?

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 5:07 am #

            What a lot of drivel. You have, yet again, failed to provide an iota of evidence for any of your claims concerning the dangers of vaccination. HPV is perfectly safe – millions upon millions of doses have been given, and it protects against several cancers.

            If you prefer anecdotes to verifiable, repeatable data, though, what about those ‘adverse events’ during the clinical trials? What researchers know, but Cia won’t admit, of course, is that an ‘adverse event’ is not a ‘side effect’. All adverse events are recorded during a clinical trial, for completion. The researchers need to know who got sick and/or died for any reason, so that their records are accurate. I looked at the data for one HPV trial, during which several participants were injured and some died. Not one was caused by the vaccine – they were caused by vehicular accidents, falls, even gunshot. But I suppose that, if you are Cia, dying by gunshot must be the fault of the vaccine; so I wonder what she’d make of the fact that there were fewer gunshot deaths amongst those who received the vaccine than amongst the controls?

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 1:05 pm #

            Another flag and downvote. Knock it off, cia, or get off the computer.

          • momofone
            January 14, 2018 at 1:06 pm #

            “But you killed him because of your criminal negligence.”

            As you do if you fail to protect him or her from preventable harm, as in with vaccines. I am sorry you are guilt-ridden about your situation with your daughter, truly. But you at this point are so far beyond rational thought that I am concerned for your well-being. Please get help.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:46 pm #

            There is a difference in degree. If you wet the concrete while watering the garden and someone slips on it, that’s quite different than if you shoot him while drunk based on mistaken identification.

            If you have researched the vaccines and know how often they disable as a group or one vaccine in particular does, and you refuse it because the disease is not common or has not been dangerous in your area, then you have made a well-reasoned decision, and no one can do more than that.

          • Roadstergal
            January 14, 2018 at 1:54 pm #

            Why do you talk about ‘research’ when you’re incapable of reading even the M&M section of a paper?

          • momofone
            January 14, 2018 at 2:14 pm #

            The issue is that you have not researched vaccines, and you have disregarded the opinions of those who have in favor of quackery.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 2:22 pm #

            Tell me the vaccine you have in mind, and let’s discuss it. You cannot say “vaccines” as a monolith: the diseases are by no means equal in seriousness or frequency, and the vaccines by no means equal in risk or necessity. Saying vaccines monolithically as though all were safe and necessary, and every child should get all seventy recommended doses and every adult the seventy some-odd recommended for THEM, is what has landed us in our present state of millions crippled mind and body by vaccines.

            And EVERY PARENT had better bear in mind that there are legions of pharma shills, employed or benefitting by the vaccine industry in some way, including most doctors, who are going to push them to give their child ALL seventy doses by 18, and over half of them are going to be severely damaged by them, starting with asthma and/or allergies, but working up quickly to autism in one in 36. They’d better talk to those who remember 1987 (before the Vaccine/Autism Epidemics) and find out just how fearsome it was to live back then, how often children died of contagious disease, and also how many had autism and/or autoimmune disease. How many had to eat gluten, casein, grain, corn, soy-free because of bowel disease the way one in ten children has to do now.

          • momofone
            January 14, 2018 at 2:26 pm #

            Sorry, no.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 2:35 pm #

            So you are afraid to take up the challenge I have offered, to specifically discuss any vaccine you like as to its risks and benefits, as well as those of the disease it is meant to prevent. We cannot discuss facts if you are unwilling to do so. I urge you again to give me a vaccine, or give me a vaccine-preventable disease, and I can give you all the facts about them which a parent should know before consenting to the vaccine. Or anyone else here at this site.

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 2:57 pm #

            ciaparker2: “So you are afraid to take up the challenge I have offered, to
            specifically discuss any vaccine you like as to its risks and benefits,
            as well as those of the disease it is meant to prevent.”

            Alright.. here’s two of the diseases and their respective vaccine that you ‘recommend offering to children/parents’.. along with their associated risks..

            https://teamvaccine.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/side-effects-chart2.jpg

            … …

            Oh, and.. no bare assertions. Back your stuff up.

            Now.. go..

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 3:57 pm #

            OK. My thrice-vaccinated baby (DTaP) got pertussis anyway at eight months old and gave it to me. It was very unpleasant coughing ten coughs per breath, and it lasted a long time, but it wasn’t dangerous and we both completely recovered. When she got the DTaP booster at 18 months, it erased her only words and she was diagnosed with autism two months later. The new DTaP continues to cause asthma (one in nine), allergies, seizure disorders, SIDS, and autism. And it is miserably ineffective.

            Sweden didn’t give the pertussis vaccine from 1989 to 1997 because the vaccine was so dangerous, but prolific pro-vaccine author Arthur Allen says in Bucking the Herd that 60% of Swedish children got pertussis in those years, but statistics show that there was less than one death a year from it. Because pertussis evolved to become much less dangerous than it had been in the nineteenth century.
            Dr. Justus Strom, 1960, “It may be questioned whether universal vaccination against pertussis is always justified, especially in view of the increasingly mild nature of the disease and of the very small
            mortality.”

            Dr. Douglas Jenkinson, 1995, “Most cases of whooping cough are relatively mild. Such cases are difficult to diagnose without a high index
            of suspicion because doctors are unlikely to hear the characteristic cough, which may be the only symptom. Parents can be reassured that a serious outcome is unlikely. Adults also get whooping cough, especially from their children, and get the same symptoms as children.”

            “During the 1960s and 1970s, two leading European
            physicians, Dr. Justus Strom of the Hospital of Infectious Diseases in Stockholm, Sweden, and Dr. Gordon Stewart, professor of community medicine at the University of Glasgow, Scotland, began to question the use of mass vaccine programs in their respective countries, especially when the natural course of pertussis HAD BECOME MILDER in both countries, and the death rate from pertussis was very small. In addition, the neurological complications from the vaccine seemed to be more widespead than
            anyone imagined.” (What Every Parent Should Know About Childhood Immunization, Jamie Murphy, p 72-3)

            “In 1977, Dr. Stewart reported that pertussis declined in incidence and mortality in Glasgow, during epidemic years from 1900-1957 (i.e., before the vaccine was introduced in the UK). (Gordon Stewart,
            “Vaccination Against Whooping Cough: Possible Implications for Assessment of Vaccine Efficacy,” Lancet, March 20, 1982: 668)

            “In a study comparing different aspects of pertussis in vaccinated and unvaccinated children, in family, school, and hospital settings during 1974 and 1975, Stewart revealed that there was no difference between the duration of illness, the severity of illness, the general incidence of whooping cough, or the number of primary and secondary cases of whooping cough in vaccinated and unvaccinated children.” (ibid 74)

            ” Sir Graham Wilson, the senior doctor responsible for the control of infectious diseases in England and Wales, said: ‘Whooping cough has now such a low death rate that the advisability of continuing vaccination against this disease must be seriouslyquestioned, particularly when there is reason to believe that vaccination has played little part in bringing about its fall.’ (Wilson GS, “The Hazards of Immunisaton, the Athlone Press 1967, 281) At the same time as the start of the scare, Professor George Dick, a senior UK doctor and immunization expert, wrote in 1974, “I am not entirely convinced that the community benefit of
            whooping cough vaccination outweighs the damage which it may be doing.” (Dick G, “Convulsive Disorders in Young Children,” Proceedings of the Royal Society of Medicine, 1974, 67; 371-2) (in The Truth About Vaccines, Dr. Richard Halvorsen, p

            “…an epidemic of whooping cough hit the Shetland Islands in 1974. The same proportion of immunised children caught the infection as unimmunised children, suggesting the vaccine offered no protection at all.” (Ditchburn RK, “Whooping cough after stopping pertussis immunization,” BMJ 1979; 1: 1601-3)

            “Furthermore, during the 1978 epidemic, a period of high notification, only one in twenty unvaccinated children were reported to have caught whooping cough, the remainder apparently escaping the disease. Even Professor Elizabeth Miller, the government immunisation specialist at the
            Health Protection Agency, conceded in 1980 that not only were more cases of whooping cough notified in the 1978 outbreak, but, even allowing for this, the
            death rate was lower than in previous epidemics. (Miller E, “Whooping Cough Notifications,” (letter) The Lancet 1980; 718) In other words, even
            at the time, health officials were admitting that whooping cough was becoming less of a killer disease despite the drop in vaccination.” (Halvorsen 100)

            “…mortality rates from pertussis were declining even
            before the advent of the vaccine. Indeed, in the US, infant mortality from pertussis declined 70% from 1900-04 to 1935-9. In England and Wales, infant
            mortality from pertussis declined approximately 90% from 1918 to 1948 before widespread use of the vaccine. ..The decline in pertussis-related mortality
            prior to the institution of widespread immunization has led some researchers to argue that pertussis vaccine is currently superfluous and that it should be
            abandoned except for high-risk groups.” (Mortimer, “Pertussis Vaccine,” 82, in Plotkin and Mortimer Vaccines)

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 4:10 pm #

            On measles:

            http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/low-fatality-rate-in-european-measles-outbreak-cdc-report/#.VkVL3rnluUk

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1522578/pdf/amjphnation00499-0004.pdf

            http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733835814

            http://vaxtruth.org/2012/01/measles-perspective/

            http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/lawrence-solomon-the-untold-story-of-measles

            In 1960 in the US, 99% of children got natural antibodies to measles by 18. There were four million cases a year, with 450 deaths. Measles, like pertussis, had become a lot less serious than it had been in the nineteenth century, and it became a routine relatively mild disease of childhood that close to all children got and no one worried about. The high fever it caused trained the immune system in both specific and non-specific protective functions which did a lot to ensure the child’s good lifetime health, even protection from many kinds of cancer.
            Yes, pneumonia occurred in one in twenty cases, but it was usually viral, meaning mild and self-limiting. When it was bacterial, it could usually be treated with antibiotics. The other complications like bronchitis, diarrhea, and ear infections, were usually mild and could be treated as they usually are. Dr. Michaela Glockler said in the 2004 edition of her book A Guide to Children’s Health that based on her own experience in treating many children with measles and that of her colleagues, it was not true that one in a thousand measles patients got encephalitis. She said it was really only one in 10,000, one in 15,000 toddlers, that NOT giving fever reducers would PREVENT it, and that the prognosis was usually good for complete recovery.

            Complete bed rest during fever, enough fluids to prevent dehydration, giving the appropriate dose of vitamin A (even for well-nourished patients) prevents most complications, no fever reducers, and staying home to recuperate for two or three weeks after the day the rash appears, will ensure a successful measles recovery.

            When infectious diseases of childhood are not mismanaged by the administration of antibiotics, or by suppressing fever, the diseases prime and mature the immune system and also represent developmental milestones.
            Having measles not only results in life-long specific immunity to measles, but also in life-long non-specific immunity to degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, sebaceous skin diseases, immunoreactive diseases and certain tumours as demonstrated by Ronne (1985).
            http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 5:06 pm #

            Sorry.. once again, do not pass GO..

            I posted this link above, I’ll post it again now.. scholarly, peer-reviewed articles/research.

            Please edit out your nonsense (links 404’ing for example.. <bare assertions (<– recall that was in my original post that you are responding to here)), thanks.

            … …

            Or.. once again..

            Maybe.. just maybe.. you can reduce your wall of text into something that actually supports your stated position of; 'the risks of the vaccines outweigh the risks of being infected with the disease'.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 5:51 pm #

            The interested reader must evaluate my information as he sees fit. I’m not interested in whether you accept it or not. Measles and pertussis are relatively mild diseases for the vast majority of those who get them. Measles confers many benefits, and it may be that pertussis does at well. It is MUCH better to get either or both of them than to be damaged for life, even killed, by the vaccines. The interested reader can easily find the statistics for himself. Five years ago, over 48,000 Americans were diagnosed with pertussis, most of them vaxxed. There were twenty deaths, many of them in young newborns. In the measles outbreaks in the US in the last decade, including the infamous Disneyland one which was really just business as usual, there has been one death, of a severely immunocompromised woman who was vaxxed. Both the MMR and the DTaP frequently cause autism, as in my daughter, but since Pharma does not wish to keep statistics on this, it is hard to tell, but the autism rate according to the CDC itself is now one in 36 children, up from three in 10,000 thirty years ago. Almost all of them caused by vaccines.

          • momofone
            January 14, 2018 at 5:52 pm #

            Wow. You must have made quick work of the urgent translation and homeschooling you had to do (instead of responding to a legitimate question).

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 6:12 pm #

            Google translate-just pop your words in, and publish the nonsense that it spits back. All in a day’s work for cia, I’m surprised it took as long as it did.

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 6:16 pm #

            ciaparker2: “The interested reader can easily find the statistics for himself.”

            And yet.. you didn’t. In near a half dozen posts since the gauntlet that *you* threw down.. wonder why..

            … …

            Grade: F

            Additional comments: The student fails to grasp the rudiments of virology, epidemiology and immunology. And demonstrates extreme difficulty in staying focused with any of the subject material provided.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:25 pm #

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3oZrMGDMMw

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 4:56 am #

            I can’t watch that, but thank you for posting it.

            Back in the mid-eighties, in the UK, there was a ‘vaccine scare’. People – including doctors – were convinced by anecdotes that the DTP vaccine was causing epilepsy, and GPs refused to give it (they used DT instead) to family members of anyone who had seizures. Despite my begging (on the grounds that if the pertussis vaccine could cause seizure in the vulnerable, how much worse would the disease be?), my GP and his colleagues refused to vaccinate my daughter against whooping cough because her aunt and one of her brothers had absence seizures following theirs.

            When my daughter was a toddler, the inevitable happened. With too few people being vaccinated, there was an epidemic. I have never been so frightened for my child’s life as I was while I was nursing her through whooping cough. It was a horrible time, and it went on, and on, and on…

            To this day, more than three decades on, I cannot bear to see a baby struggling for breath.

          • shay simmons
            January 15, 2018 at 2:56 pm #

            The interested reader must evaluate my information as he sees fit.

            It’s crap. Next?

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 5:44 pm #

            “Dr. Michaela Glockler said in the 2004 edition of her book A Guide to
            Children’s Health that based on her own experience in treating many
            children with measles and that of her colleagues, it was not true that
            one in a thousand measles patients got encephalitis. She said it was
            really only one in 10,000, one in 15,000 toddlers, that NOT giving fever
            reducers would PREVENT it, and that the prognosis was usually good for
            complete recovery.”

            That’s what she said in the 2004 edition of her book.
            As you well know, in later editions of her book she retracted those claims.

            When I pointed this out to you, you claimed that she must have been bribed to do so by BigPharma.
            Lie, lie, lie, I’m gonna lie until the day I die…. Cia Parker’s MO.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:47 pm #

            You forgot, old data is good, new data is bad.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 6:51 pm #

            Indeed. The other remarkable claim was that Dr Glockler said her encephalitis claim of 1 case in 10,000 cases of measles was based on her own observations and that of her practice partners, which begs the question… how many hundreds of thosands of measles cases did they see in order to arrive at an estimate of encephalitis that was statistically robust? 100,000? 400,000?

            Here is what she says now about encephalitis:
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0a3ad1ec637c8e24532906222b378793f0546e92a6a4efbf2148ee82f6142e31.jpg

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:28 pm #

            https://www.cdc.gov/measles/images/measles-infographic.png

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 4:58 pm #

            You ignored my requests. Which were..

            “Oh, and.. no bare assertions. Back your stuff up.”

            First paragraph of your post is an anecdote, for example.

            … …

            And by “back your stuff up”.. I am referring to scholarly, peer-reviewed articles/research.

            Not books.. not rapid responses to a medical journal and and … please edit your post.

            Or.. maybe.. just.. maybe

            You could actually address the issue of these two diseases/vaccines and their associated risks/benefits and condense your mish-mashed, wall of text to something cogent for the readers..

            i.e. The risk of death from measles and that of the vaccine are..

            Go..

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 5:04 pm #

            Don’t hold your breath.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 4:17 pm #

            You want to do another one? I’ve got to translate and do homeschooling now, but I”ll be glad to do another one with you as soon as I have time. Or with anyone else brave enough to do so.

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 5:36 pm #

            ciaparker2: “You want to do another one?”

            You haven’t presented anything that supports your stated position. Which is.. the risks of these vaccines outweigh the risks of acquiring the diseases.

            … …

            Have to give you an F, for your efforts, thus far.

            Just the evidentiary facts, ma’am, according to the current body of medical information/research … thanks.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 5:46 pm #

            “So you are afraid to take up the challenge I have offered, to specifically discuss any vaccine you like as to its risks and benefits, as well as those of the disease it is meant to prevent.”

            Then: “I’ve got to translate and do homeschooling now…”

            Usual Parker prevarication… she can’t answer; someone called her bluff, so she plays for time.
            Funny how she has to “translate” at really inconvenient moments in time, yet she always has loads of time to spend disseminating lies on the internet.

          • Peter Olins
            January 15, 2018 at 10:48 am #

            Homeschooling? What steps have you taken to ensure that your bitterness and cynicism don’t damage your child further?

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 1:46 pm #

            Far too late Peter. Elsewhere in this thread Cia states her daughter questioned her physician about mercury etc. Poor child.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:49 pm #

            I’m sure she homeschools to keep her daughter from ever being exposed to an alternate viewpoint or novel way of thinking.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 3:58 pm #

            I think cia’s daughter is in special ed, plus cia does this “homeschooling, e.g. teaching her about how bad vaccines are. I am not making this up; supposedly the DD had a conversation with her doctor about vaccine injury.

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 4:36 pm #

            which still puzzles me because I could swear she said her daughter was nonverbal.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 4:37 pm #

            I know. The story keeps changing all the time on just how disabled this child is.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 15, 2018 at 5:17 pm #

            I’m sure Cia has a pip of an explanation for why her nonverbal, I mean verbal, child, is still damaged and truly autistic. This probably explains why sometimes she thinks verbal autistic people aren’t reeeeally autistic, and other times she does.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 15, 2018 at 11:58 am #

            No one believes you are doing anything else with your time but blithering in comment sections. There’s positive proof that you do this way too much to be homeschooling, translating, or caring for a sick child. I don’t know what’s happening to you kid while you so this. She’s probably accustomed to disgusting you so much that you spend all your time online posting her personal medical history to prove why she’s worthless.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 1:43 pm #

            I have two grandkids who are a less than a year older than her daughter. Both, like all my grandchildren, are fully vaccinated. Neither has had a fraction of the illnesses that her daughter has struggled through, and both are very fit and healthy.

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 7:29 pm #

            Exactly! And low platelet count can occur with measles disease, as well, so it’s not a complication just of the vaccine. I couldn’t find a rate, but I have read it’s more common with the disease than the vaccine.
            https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/measles/symptoms-causes/syc-20374857

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 7:35 pm #

            Well, whadda ya know? Seek and ye shall find: http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2011/04/acute-thrombocytopenic-purpura-mmr-and.html
            “We have, then, a known risk of thrombocytopenic purpura following MMR
            vaccination. It occurs at a rate of roughly 2-4 per 100,000 doses. . . Now we get to the question that I asked Dr. Jay: what is the rate of
            acute (or idiopathic) thrombocytopenic purpura following natural
            infection? Information on the rate of ATP following infection was a bit
            more difficult to find.(Note: I found that to be the case as well.) Yenicesu, et al. (2002), found that following viral infection, ITP occurred about 13.3% of the time. Likewise, Rajantie, et al.
            (2007) found that thrombocytopenic purpura occurs more frequently
            following natural infection than after immunization, and that
            vaccien-associated TP is generally mild and resolves within 6 months in
            about 90% of cases. Ünal, et al. (2009), also describe mumps as a cause of ATP. Tucci, et al.
            (1980) discovered subclinical thrombocytopenic purpura in 55% of
            children with measles, 25% of children with mumps and 30% of children
            with rubella, among other viral causes.

          • momofone
            January 14, 2018 at 4:45 pm #

            “We cannot discuss facts if you are unwilling to do so.”

            Precisely.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 5:15 am #

            “I urge you again to give me a vaccine, or give me a vaccine-preventable disease, and I can give you all the facts about them which a parent should know before consenting to the vaccine.”

            Translation: “Name a disease, or the vaccine associated with it, and I’ll pull out some rectally-sourced Gish gallop which bears no resemblance to reality.”

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 2:35 pm #

            As a dietitian, I counsel patients with inflammatory bowel disease, celiac disease, and food allergies. The prevalence is nowhere near one in ten. It is closer to 16 per 100,000, which, if you can do the math, is much less than one in ten. I don’t know where you pull your numbers from, but mine come from Statistics Canada.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 3:29 pm #

            Well over 90% of autistic kids have bowel disease, and one in 36 children now has autism. Check the schools. A huge percentage of them have gotten the necessary doctor’s recommendation that they eat gluten-free, casein-free, etc.-free, lunches at school, and every school has a gluten-free meal available, though only for those who have the doctor’s permission. So if you can do the math, if every school, with five hundred to one thousand students on average, has a large enough number to have gluten-free meals to give every eligible student, right there it’s many times more than 16 per 100,000. I submit that you’re just another pharma shills benefitting in some way by propagating the pharma narrative exonerating vaccines.
            Talk About Curing Autism has a four-week menu plan on their website for eating gluten and casein free on foodstamps. Because, again, most autistic children have bowel disease, most chronic constipation, some chronic diarrhea, autistic enterocolitis in other words, and they all benefit greatly on this diet. When I put my daughter on it in 2011, it stopped her chronic, permanent, severe, painful constipation which didn’t respond to high fiber or any of the other usual remedies, but within two days the diet COMPLETELY stopped the constipation. She also takes digestive enzymes before every meal and probiotic coconut yogurt or SCDophilus at night.
            Doctors now have been told to evaluate for bowel disease every time they make an autism diagnosis (now in at least one in 36 American children). And many other children have it as well, even if they were lucky enough to escape the autism. And it is another aspect of the vaccine damage: chronic inflammation of the GI system.
            In the ’80s, there was not gluten-free anything in any store. Now EVERY store has several aisles of gluten-, casein-, grain-free, soy-free, etc. etc. food. Because SO MANY are now gluten etc. sensitive or allergic who never were before. My daughter is one. If she deviates from her diet, it makes her constipated for several weeks, and it’s back to Miralax, Colace, Natural Calm, Milk of Magnesia tablets, and Smooth Move tea. Megadoses. But once she’s back on the diet, it settles down.
            Are you a dietitian who retired thirty years ago, perhaps? Before the Vaccine Epidemic?

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 3:36 pm #

            Just found this on irritable bowel syndrome. Just one of the many kinds of bowel disease. Johns Hopkins says here that 15% of adults have it, and it’s organic.

            Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS), which is classified as a functional gastrointestinal disorder, is a chronic condition of the lower gastrointestinal tract (Figure 1) that affects as many as 15% of adults in the United States.
            Not easily characterized by structural
            abnormalities, infection, or metabolic disturbances, the underlying mechanisms of IBS have for many years remained unclear. Recent research, however, has lead to an increased understanding of
            IBS. As a result, IBS is now considered
            an organic and, most likely, neurologic bowel disorder.

            https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/gastroenterology_hepatology/_pdfs/small_large_intestine/irritable_bowel_byndrome_IBS.pdf

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 3:42 pm #

            This is a book I got nearly three years ago with the reasons causing the bowel disease, how frequent it is in the autistic, and how the Specific Carbohydrate diet (grain-free, but permits homemade yogurt fermented for 24 hours to predigest the lactose) benefits autistic children and others with these conditions. If you will look at any of the many websites dedicated to the SCDiet, GAPS, or Paleo diets (why do you think so many have gone on the Paleo diet and say it completely resolved their bowel disease?), you’ll see how extremely common these problems are these days. They weren’t before the Vaccine Epidemic.

            The SCD for Autism and ADHD: A Reference and Dairy-Free Cookbook for the Specific Carbohydrate Diet

            Raman Prasad, Pamela Ferro, Nilou Moochhala

            Also this one, which I’ve used a lot. Also has very interesting explanations as to the cause of these diseases.

            The Kid-Friendly ADHD & Autism Cookbook, Updated and Revised: The Ultimate Guide to the Gluten-Free, Casein-Free DietApr 1, 2012

            by Pamela Compart and Dana Laake

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 4:05 pm #

            How many books is that now that you’ve tried to ‘shill’?

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:31 pm #

            http://lmgtfy.com/?q=debunking+gaps+diet

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 6:53 pm #

            From https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/gaps-diet/

            “If you listen to your desires for food, you will be able to digest that food and it will only do you good because you ate it at the right time, when your body asked for it.”

            Hell, no! I get cravings for pork pie – how would indulging them help me digest something like that? I’ve been on a GF diet for almost a quarter of a century, after my lifelong inability to reach a normal weight was tested and diagnosed as Cœliac disease. And I’ve been meat-free for almost ten years, when creeping spasticity in my colon made it impossible for me to digest meat. Despite two surgeries, I got blockages if I tried eating it – I’d far rather forego certain foods than risk ever having that again.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 7:07 pm #

            If I listened to my desires for food, I’d weigh about 100 lbs more than I do (which is already too much), and my blood would be nothing but cholesterol and sugar.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 4:41 am #

            If I listened to my cravings, I’d be back down to skeletal in no time flat, not to mention the horrible gut pain in the interim. That’s the thing about a GF diet – if you have Cœliac disease it doesn’t help with weight loss as the woosters seem to think, it helps with weight gain.

          • shay simmons
            January 15, 2018 at 2:54 pm #

            And beer. Let’s not forget one of the most important food groups.

          • Heidi
            January 15, 2018 at 3:24 pm #

            I would surely weigh a lot more on the GAPS diet. I noticed from their own website that patients can only “handle a few tablespoons of animal fat per meal.” Like, um, fat has 120 calories a tablespoon. A few tablespoons alone is enough calories for one meal, and I guess one is supposed to increase their intake to several tablespoons. I’m pretty sure animal fat, despite what the Paleo/GAPS/caveman/whatever similar quack diet, isn’t exactly loaded with an abundance of micronutrients. Of course, if they end up gaining weight or not losing weight, I’m sure it’s all the toxins their body has accumulated and for $59.99 you can buy some detox supplement!

            I tried low carb a few years ago and a damn nut flour muffin, which the GAPS lady suggests, a small muffin at that, ended up clocking in like 700 calories. And I was still hungry. After I lost the initial water weight, I didn’t lose anything and felt like crap. It definitely did not improve my mental health running around with a blood sugar in the 50s.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 15, 2018 at 6:03 pm #

            There’s no evidence behind the paleo diet. If people lose weight and feel better on the paleo diet, it’s because they’ll eliminated a lot of processed, junk food. They would have done just as well following the healthy plate model (1/4 plate healthy protein, 1/4 plate high fibre carbohydrate, 1/2 plate vegetables and fruit – more veggies than fruit, and at least two kinds) without needing to eliminate entire food groups!

            The GAPS diet is absolutely ridiculous, with no evidence backing it up. You don’t need to combine pH as the diet recommends – if your body isn’t capable of regulating its pH, you’ll end up in the hospital, because you will be very ill. The SC Diet is ridiculous as well. Instead of trying to explain why, here’s a good explanation from a fellow RD, MPH:
            https://www.celiac.ca/pdfs/blood%20test-rev.pdf

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 8:03 pm #

            Showing that you know nothing about autism and bowel disease. Totally don’t get it about the autoimmune reaction to carbohydrates. Casein resembles gluten very closely, which is why these sensitivities or allergies usually go together. Read about Kelly Brozyna’s daughter Ashley here:

            https://www.thespunkycoconut.com/category/recovering-ashley/

            and learn how she dealt with her painful bowel disease and some of her symptoms of autism by using the Paleo diet. And, as I said, every member of her family has benefitted from it, not just the autistic child. Celiac, failure to thrive and digest food, ADHD, Ginger is the only family member without issues addressed by the Paleo diet.

            When I first put my daughter on the GFCF diet in 2012, the pediatrician thought it was a bad idea, that she would have nutritional deficiencies. But I did it anyway, and within two days her painful severe permanent constipation was normalized. My neighbor had recommended a very high-fiber breakfast cereal, and I bought it, but my daughter continued to have severe problems, even taking a lot of remedies like Miralax, Colace, Milk of Magnesia, Natural Calm, and Smooth Move tea every day. I was worried about taking her off of all high-fiber everything, I thought she’d never find relief that way, but I was wrong. As soon as she was off the gluten and casein, she was normal. It was literally two days from the time she started the new diet. A year later I put her on the grain-free diet and she did even better. Read the website Pecanbread.com or TACA (Talk about Curing Autism) for more on how these diets help those with bowel disease, which includes virtually all autists.

            For those with chronic diarrhea, there are many sites which explain the progression to follow. First, nothing but cooked chicken or ground beef, homemade chicken soup, cooked carrots and zucchini, cooked apples and pears, bananas. After a few days you work up to the next level if there are no problems, adding the recommended foods for that level one at a time, and stopping at the recurrence of bowel problems, going back to a simpler level. The book I recommended yesterday, The SCDiet for Autism etc. includes a version of this plan, versions of which can be found all over the Internet now, because it is so effective, healing conditions once thought incurable. Prasad, the co-author of that book, has written other cookbooks in which he describes his own bowel disease and how much he suffered from it, and how he was healed by the SCDiet.

            The SCDiet was designed by a woman, Elaine Gottschall, whose daughter nearly died of her bowel disease, and no one had any idea how to treat it. And the diet cured her, allowing her to live a normal life (except for the dietary restrictions). The specific carbohydrate diet (only carbs allowed low-carb fruits and vegetables, simple carbohydrates, not complex or starchy) has cured many thousands of people with bowel disease. I spoke on the phone once with Lucy, author of Lucy’s Cookbook (which we use constantly): she said she had been on the diet herself for over thirty years, and it had completely healed her bowel disease, and she felt no desire to even try to go off of it. Kelly Brozyna said the same, that she no longer even wishes she didn’t need to follow this restrictive diet, that they’re “good.”

            Many parents of autistic children swear by the GAPS diet (Gut and Psychology Syndrome), and how it has alleviated psychological (organic) symptoms of their autism as well as their bowel disease. It is very easy to google it, read reviews of these cookbooks on Amazon, visit the hundreds of websites and forums devoted to these diets, bowel disease (now at well over 10%, as you saw in what I posted earlier), because of AUTOIMMUNE VACCINE DAMAGE.

            That’s the great thing about the Internet: we’re no longer at the mercy of crooks and liars, or those who simply haven’t kept up with the times, but can inform ourselves and find solutions.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 15, 2018 at 8:25 pm #

            While I may not be an expert in nutrition issues commonly found among those with autism, my clinical nutrition resource, Practice-Based Evidence in Nutrition, collects the evidence from scientific papers written by people who are experts in their fields. Those with expertise in nutrition for autism have indicated that there is currently insufficient evidence to recommend a gluten-free or casein-free diet for those with autism.

            As for the paleo diet, the SC diet, and the GAPS diet, I can easily dismiss those as ridiculous diets. As a registered dietitian with a graduate degree in public health, I know how to critically evaluate diets and how to critically read and analyze any scientific literature pertaining to them. None of those diets have any validity whatsoever. They are pure bunk, and the SCD and GAPS prey on people like you, stating that you need to buy supplements to properly follow the diet, and of course, you need to buy their books and other resources as well. Whereas my services as a dietitian are free to anyone living in my city – the provincial government pays my salary. I’m not trying to sell anything, and it would actually be considered unethical for me to sell supplements. Yet the purveyors of these diets have no problem selling supplements, which would be considered unethical for any real health care provider.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 8:44 pm #

            “You don’t have to be a registered dietician to recognize these diets as bunk, but it helps.”

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 4:03 pm #

            I know a lot of autistic people and only one – me – with gut problems, because I’m cœliac and have EDS.

            Something can be a neurological disorder without being any other neurological disorder, or autism; it just means that it has something to do with the nervous system, and not all nerves are the same.

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 8:18 pm #

            thank you! such a simple concept, which cia is unable to comprehend.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 5:46 pm #

            Irritable bowel SYNDROME is not inflammatory bowel DISEASE. I realize they both have bowel in them, but otherwise, they are completely different, with only having symptoms affecting the bowel in common.

            IBS, while it can severely affect a person’s life, doesn’t come with any underlying pathology of the small or large intestine. IBD does. Both are partially treated with diet, but the difference in the diets required for each is rather large. Plus in IBD, diet in remission is different from diet when the disease is not in remission.

            From what we now know of IBS, it seems that some individuals with IBS are sensitive to certain FODMAPs that are present in foods. Figuring out which FODMAPs cause issues, with the help of a dietitian to ensure the diet is still adequate, can help many people. However, there is also a large psychological component to IBS, with many individuals reporting increased symptoms with stress, worry, etc., so learning stress management techniques is very important for those individuals.

            Out of the thousands of patients I’ve seen as a dietitian, I’ve had exactly two patients with autism. In both cases, their parents consulted me because their children had issues with certain food textures, not because of any bowel issues. Naturally, those parents wanted to ensure their children were consuming enough calories, from a wide enough variety of foods not to cause deficiencies. There is some fascinating research now being conducted on the relationship between gut flora and autism, but it is still very preliminary. We also don’t know if one influences the other or causes the other, or if they just both happen to occur at the same time. It’s interesting research, but there remains a lot of work to be done before we can link one with the other.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 6:31 pm #

            That’s why I said it was one of many kinds of bowel disease. My daughter has gotten the flu, I can’t look up anything right now.

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 6:48 pm #

            ciaparker2: “My daughter has gotten the flu, I can’t look up anything right now.”

            Yeah, darn those homeopathic flu nosodes.. worthless and utterly ineffective.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 11:48 am #

            I got this year’s influenzinum for emergencies, but haven’t used it. It’s better for your immune system and general health to go through natural illnesses periodicially.

          • January 15, 2018 at 12:15 pm #

            I’m sorry about your daughter’s flu. The worst 5 days of my 4-year-old’s life were when she caught flu at 7 months old. (It was toward the end of the flu season, so we didn’t get her vaccinated at 6 months. That was a mistake.) She couldn’t tolerate any Tamiflu, so all the poor bug got was fever reducers, water, and snuggles. My daughter’s immune system is pretty good and she was sick for less than a week, no complications, but I’m not especially anxious to see her lying feverish and suffering for the sake of “general health,” which I always thought meant “a lack of sickness.” Also, repeated bouts of flu sound rather like repeated rounds of Russian roulette–she might become very sick indeed and need a hospital, or even die.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 1:05 pm #

            My daughter had a low fever of a little over 100 twice, then 99 at bedtime, and seems fine today. She threw up the night before last, so I think she was sick. Her immune system is very good, she breast fed for years, until self-weaning, and had pertussis at eight and nine months old despite having had three DTaPs, and had chickenpox at nearly two. Many stomach flus and bronchitis a couple of times. EV-68 over three years ago. Two months after that she had a cough that lasted over a month. Now she’s rarely sick, had had nothing in the last three years, although it’s good to get sick sometimes to keep your immune system in practice. Apart from the massive brain damage done by the hep-B at birth, given without permission and against my express wishes, and the DTaP booster at 18 months, which caused her low-verbal autism, she’s very healthy (sarc intended).

            Health means a fast, competent response by the Th-1 cellular immune system to invading threats, which uses generalized responses and non-specific immunity. It means no chronic conditions and no cancer. Vaccines stimulate the Th-2 humoral, antibody-based, specific immune responses, which favor the development of autoimmune responses. That’s why parents should only accept a vaccine which is demonstrably necessary under the circumstances, a real and present threat which is usually very serious or fatal, not a just-in-case situation.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 1:09 pm #

            Was that whooping cough diagnosed by the same person who diagnosed her vaccine reaction? It isn’t possible to get whooping cough at eight months and then at nine months – the original infection lasts for at least three months, so I expect that she didn’t get a formal diagnosis.

          • January 15, 2018 at 1:27 pm #

            Good, I’m glad she’s better. Doesn’t sound like she had flu, thankfully.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 2:16 pm #

            Thank you. I’m glad too.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 12:18 pm #

            “It’s better for your immune system and general health to go through natural illnesses periodicially.”

            Does the same apply to natural food poisoning? If not, why not?

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 12:26 pm #

            So, the only thing as useless as homeopathy is homeopathy kept in a cupboard. Right.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:26 pm #

            I mean, it’s not any _less_ effective in the cupboard.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 1:32 pm #

            Indeed, it should have been more effective if she didn’t actually take any.

          • January 15, 2018 at 1:37 pm #

            Actually, it might be more effective; you have to succuss it against the side of the cabinet, and then the memory in the molecules will make your whole kitchen protected.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 1:24 pm #

            Influenzium. Influenzium?

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:25 pm #

            Emptium Walletum.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:28 pm #

            Processed sugar??

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 1:30 pm #

            Yet protected, for stability, by the feared and deadly Aluminium. Shudder. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab49a6b0b8311b58c5ecdc34e57dc632893e2a779e538510bf4a3de5aa1afc49.jpg

          • Acleron
            January 16, 2018 at 4:10 am #

            It’s a homeopathy nosode so presumably starts with some mucus from a flu sufferer diluted sufficiently to ensure nothing is there, the claims for it are:-

            “strengthen the body and increase its resistance to the season’s flu viruses,
            protect against cold & flu symptoms such as body aches, nausea, chills, fever, headaches, sore throat, coughs, and congestion,
            enforce the flu vaccine’s action if you have opted for the flu shot,
            deal with aftereffects of the flu, and
            alleviate adverse effects of the flu shot.”

            The normal crazy claims.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 1:43 pm #

            So you’re now shilling for BIG HOMEOPATHY! The numbers I see indicate annual revenues in excess of 7,000,000.00; but they’re not in it for the money.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 15, 2018 at 2:17 pm #

            My kid had a very attenuated flu because of flu shot cross protection and the fact she got medical care. You’d rather your daughter suffer, I’d rather mine stay out of the hospital and feel better soon. Priorities.

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 3:27 pm #

            I got this year’s influenzinum for emergencies, but haven’t used it.

            So your plan in an emergency, like someone near death with the flu. Is to give them a 9C dilution of the virus they already have by the billions in their body? Or is it if you see the viruses coming. If so, do you wait until you see the whites of their capsids?

          • shay simmons
            January 16, 2018 at 3:14 pm #

            do you wait until you see the whites of their capsids?

            You win the Internetz.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 15, 2018 at 5:04 am #

            “My daughter has gotten the flu, I can’t look up anything right now.”

            I’m genuinely sorry for her Cia. Of course you should be caring for her rather than waste your time on the internet. Anyone with an ill child would want her to be better…
            [Tell us again how when she was a newborn you left her constantly screaming in pain from a serious illness and unable to feed for 4 days, but kinda forgot to call a doctor to see her or to take her to the ER…]

            Of course your daughter got flu- there is a lot of it about and she hasn’t been vaccinated. Did you deliberately infect her with the flu, so she could “strengthen her immune system”? I am sure that with extra intravenous vitamins and homeopathy she will bounce back very quickly, leaving you with time on your hands to be a menace to society by spreading lies and antivaccine propaganda on line.

            I hope she doesn’t suffer any febrile episode with her flu. You do know how these trigger oxidative stress, and how with her underlying hereditary Neurexin-1 gene deletion she sustains brain damage each time this happens?

            It must be a big dilemma for you… Give a fever reducer to stop her getting worse brain damage, or let the flu and the fever run riot to “strengthen her immune system”. I’m glad I don’t have to make that decision. I sincerely hope for your daughter’s sake that you make the correct decision, but if previous experience is anything to go by I am sure you won’t.

          • The Vitaphone Queen
            January 15, 2018 at 9:59 am #

            Goodbye, Cia. I wouldn’t wanna be ya. Or be your daughter.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 15, 2018 at 5:08 am #

            It’s amazing how often people confuse IBD with IBS.
            Of course, Cia is no exception. She always gets the “wrong end of the stick”, and has little proper medical knowledge.

          • shay simmons
            January 15, 2018 at 2:52 pm #

            Have you any evidence that parker has ANY proper medical knowledge?

          • Mike Stevens
            January 15, 2018 at 3:29 pm #

            Nope, she has absolutely none. She did biology to grade 9 I recall.

            She’s fairly bright, but terribly biased and suffers terminal cognitive dissonance and significant Dunning Kruger syndrome traits.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 12:02 pm #

            I don’t have time to say much, I have a long proofreading to do. But I found this, which indicates that 12% of people have antibodies to gluten in their blood (I had said 10% had bowel disease), while 29% test positive in fecal samples. I have a book by Dr. Thomas which says that when he started medical practice thirty-five years ago, almost none of his child patients were gluten-sensitive (meaning they had no bowel disease), while now a large percentage of them were. I’ll have to look it up to get the percentage. So what is making so many people gluten (and casein, which closely resembles gluten) sensitive? You have to have an antigen appear in your bloodstream to be sensitized to that and similar substances, and vaccines are the absolutely ideal tool to do that. And nearly everyone has foolishly sensitized themselves to myriad common substances by taking large numbers of vaccines. My daughter, like nearly all autistic kids and 10% of kids in general, has to stick to a restrictive diet which is a pain, or she gets a recurrence of her bowel disease, even though she takes a digestive enzyme capsule before eating ice cream at Baskin Robbins as a reward or pie or cutout cookies during the holidays. We’ve tried many gluten-free recipes for making them, but none is good.

            “There are tests that measure the presence of anti-gliadin IgA (a gliadin antibody) in the blood and in the stool. Antibodies in the blood mean that gliadin made it through the intestinal lining into the blood, where the body mounted a defense against it; antibodies in the stool indicate the presence of antibodies in the gut, where the body has mounted a defense. Gut antibodies, however, come before blood antibodies. For that reason, fecal antibody tests are regarded as more accurate for testing gluten sensitivity, because blood antibodies only show up after significant intestinal damage has allowed gliadin to pass through. You could test positive for fecal antibodies and negative for blood antibodies if your intestinal lining remained fairly intact.

            One study found that around 12% of healthy people’s blood samples tested positive for antibodies to IgG. Fecal tests, however, indicate that around 29% of healthy people test positive. If the fecal antibody tests are accurate and reflective of gluten sensitivity, that’s nearly a third of Americans!

            https://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-common-is-gluten-sensitivity/

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 12:44 pm #

            Just a quick glance at the chemical formulas makes me wonder how on Earth gluten and casein could be similar.

            Gluten:
            C24H27N5O9

            Casein:
            ‎C38H57N9O9

            Looking at 3D pictures of them online makes them look even less alike.

            Could you please link to the actual papers which support your assertions?

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 1:00 pm #

            they both have Cs and Hs and Ns in them of course! And they have 2 syllables and end in an n.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 1:03 pm #

            Oh, silly me – they both have nine oxygen atoms! That makes them totally the same!

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:12 pm #

            “(and casein, which closely resembles gluten)”

            Nope.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 15, 2018 at 1:16 pm #

            Perhaps “Dope” would be more appropriate?

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:20 pm #

            I think Cia is breaking Disqus – that comment posted accidentally, and then it took 5min to edit it. :p

          • Nick Sanders
            January 15, 2018 at 7:07 pm #

            That’s not even her own words, it’s a copy and paste from the blog she linked at the end of her post. Here’s the study, which says nothing like what the author claims:
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16835287

            Side note, I’m not even sure how one could have “antibodies to IgG”, given that IgG is a class of antibodies. I can only imagine that it would lead to death in a rather spectacular fashion.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 8:14 pm #

            “Side note, I’m not even sure how one could have “antibodies to IgG”,
            given that IgG is a class of antibodies. I can only imagine that it
            would lead to death in a rather spectacular fashion.”

            Yeah, I picked up on that, too. That’s what happens when you don’t know what you’re talking about. Proof positive for cia!

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 8:48 pm #

            It’s a thing – rheumatoid factor is (typically) IgM-class anti-IgG. Some single-digit percentage of the healthy population is positive, and it’s an active area of research.

          • MaineJen
            January 16, 2018 at 10:37 am #

            We use “antibodies to antibodies” as reagents at work (fluorescent tags, to test for the presence of antibodies), but I doubt this is what cia meant.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 15, 2018 at 2:11 pm #

            “I don’t have time to say much” apparently means “I have time to make multi hundred word comments hundreds of times a day”

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 2:13 pm #

            To be fair to her, she actually doesn’t say much in those hundreds of words.

          • Who?
            January 15, 2018 at 3:55 pm #

            Does someone pay you for proofreading?

            Never mind your outlandish attitudes to health, the thought of you proofreading as a commercial activity is flatout alarming.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:20 pm #

            Actually, unless she’s sneaking in “corrections” such as “vaccines maim and murder,” it sounds like a pretty harmless activity. Proofreading merely checks two versions of a document to ensure that one matches the other.

          • Who?
            January 15, 2018 at 5:18 pm #

            If that’s all she’s doing, then apart from her patchy attention to detail, you’re probably right.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 15, 2018 at 5:52 pm #

            That’s hardly a peer-reviewed journal article or a legitimate source of health information.

            My clinical nutrition practice guidelines (they require a login and password, so I can’t link to the resource) states that as of January 2018, there is insufficient evidence to recommend a gluten-free or casein-free diet for individuals with autism, unless they also have celiac disease (for gluten) or a milk protein allergy (for casein). The only universal recommendation for individuals with autism is to ensure that their iron levels are regularly checked, as iron deficiency is very common due to picky eating.

            IgA tests for celiac disease are only about 90% accurate: https://www.celiac.ca/pdfs/blood%20test-rev.pdf

            Only about 2% of the population has antibodies to milk protein (casein) and 4% have antibodies to gluten or wheat (reference: Practice-Based Evidence in Nutrition, a site that requires an account to access).

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:10 pm #

            IBS = IBD? I guess having a broken leg and having milk leg is the same affliction, because they both have ‘leg’ in them?

          • Mike Stevens
            January 15, 2018 at 1:15 pm #

            What else do we expect from a scientific ignoramus?
            She probably confuses toxicity from mercury with the late Queen singer.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 15, 2018 at 6:52 pm #

            Laxative megadoses? Are you *trying* to dehydrate her?

          • Mishimoo
            January 15, 2018 at 7:10 pm #

            Every comment Cia leaves regarding her daughter’s health points more and more towards factitious disorder imposed on another (Munchausen’s by proxy).

          • momofone
            January 15, 2018 at 7:54 pm #

            I’ve wondered this myself.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 15, 2018 at 8:28 pm #

            The kid has to suffer. She dared to be disabled and fuck up Cia’s ego. Anyone who has had to take large doses of laxatives knows that it feels frigging awful.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 8:51 pm #

            I’ve never had large doses of laxatives. I’ve tried a small dose when I was on opioids post-op, and it was HORRIBLE. I stuck with the stool softeners the doc gave me and got off of the opioids quickly. I can’t imagine megadoses. 😮

          • Nick Sanders
            January 15, 2018 at 8:53 pm #

            I’ve had a colonoscopy. I was quite willing to trample to death anyone who got between me and the bathroom door during the lead up. I shudder at the thought of having been on a solid diet at the time.

          • Empliau
            January 16, 2018 at 12:10 am #

            Have you read Dave Barry’s piece on his colonoscopy? My favorite line is “There are times when you wish the commode had a seat belt.” (of the prep, naturally) (although there’s nothing natural about that prep. I had to stop drinking it when I started vomiting, but I was cleaned out anyway.)

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 7:06 pm #

            Doctors now have been told to evaluate for bowel disease every time they make an autism diagnosis

            Document.

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 6:23 pm #

            As you can see below, you’ve been “Parkered”; namely thrown a GishGallop of misquoted, irrelevant, inappropriate and incorrect information which has been mangled through the filter of Cia’s biased brain.

            Don’t expect her to reply to questions, and if challenged she’ll either swamp you with enough irrelevant word salad to feed a nation of vegans, or disappear from sight. The former is liklier.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 14, 2018 at 2:44 pm #

            God damn right we benefit from vaccines; with our good health!

          • Proponent
            January 14, 2018 at 3:09 pm #

            On the upside..

            This discussion is nearing it’s close, anyways, Jack.

            I believe Dr. Tuteur will shut things down soon. As the magic number of comments (2000) is being approached which will cause issues with the site possibly crashing.

            So..

            ciaparker2’s e-pulpit from which she spews her nonsense here will be gone shortly.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 3:24 pm #

            True. And while this has nicely distracted me from my endo pain, I should probably get back to doing some real work.

          • kfunk937
            January 14, 2018 at 4:27 pm #

            Sometimes I think the best reasons to engage are to keep them busy here (wherever here is), such that they don’t go off spewing some other place where (a) there’s less push-back, or (b) we’re unlikely to’ve picked it up atall.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 3:05 pm #

            The prevalence of autism is not one in 36. Here in Canada, approximately 1 in 94 children is diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. And since it is a spectrum, some of those individuals are extremely high functioning, like my friend who works as a computer programmer and makes a six figure salary. See https://www.autismontario.com/client/aso/ao.nsf/web/Info+about+ASD?OpenDocument

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 4:41 pm #

            Can’t you google anything yourself?

            “In the highest reported percentage ever for autism prevalence in the United States, a recently released survey of parents by the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) puts the rate for autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) in American children at 2.76 percent, or 1 in 36.

            A November 2017 data brief reporting the new numbers culled information from the National Health Information Survey (NHIS). The survey was conducted 2014-2016.

            According to the NCHS, the new numbers do not represent a statistically significant increase in autism prevalence over the three-year period. In 2014, the rate was 2.24 percent for American children.

            Looked at another way, though, the 2.24 percent number placed the autism rate at about 1-in-45 children; the 2016 figure represents an autism rate of 1-in-36 children. The prevalence rate for 2015 was 2.41 percent, or 1-in-41.5 children.”

            http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=9&SubSectionID=9&ArticleID=39581

            Yes, it is a spectrum. But in 1987, it was only three in 10,000 anywhere on the spectrum, and now it’s one in 36. Among the autistic, about one-third are non-verbal, another third are low-verbal (like my daughter), and one-third are high-functioning, but most have difficulty in relationships or even engaging normally with people, and few are self-supporting. Schools are foundering under the burden. And it’s caused by vaccines.

            A Prevalence Study of Pervasive Developmental Disorders in North Dakota
            Article in Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry 26(5):700-3 • October 1987 with 7 Reads
            DOI: 10.1097/00004583-198709000-00014 • Source: PubMed

            1st Larry Burd

            2nd Wayne W Fisher
            40.38 • University of Nebraska Medical Center

            3rd Jacob Kerbeshian
            Abstract
            To determine prevalence rates for the pervasive developmental disorders (PDD) in North Dakota, all relevant health and service providers were asked to provide names and records of all patients who had autistic symptoms. All identified patients were seen by the authors for a comprehensive evaluation. Of North Dakota’s 180,986 children, ages 2 through 18, 21 met DSM-III criteria for infantile autism (IA), two met criteria for childhood onset pervasive developmental disorder (COPDD), and 36 were diagnosed as having atypical pervasive developmental disorder (APDD) because they met behavioral criteria for COPDD before age 30 months but never met criteria for IA. The prevalence rates were estimated at 1.16 per 10,000 for IA, 0.11 per 10,000 for COPDD, and 1.99 per 10,000 for APDD. The combined rate for all PDD was 3.26 per 10,000 with a male to female ratio of 2.7 to 1. Results are discussed in relation to previous prevalence studies using other diagnostic criteria.

            http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2809%2965024-3/abstract

            http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709650243

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 4:54 pm #

            It is quite rude to keep quoting stuff without linking to it. Readers therefore have no idea whom you are quoting.

            I must say, though, that it is fascinating that you trust the CDC when it comes to statistics showing autism prevalence rates, but not when it comes to statistics showing the safety of vaccination.

            In case anyone is interested, the data are here:

            https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db291.htm

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 5:08 pm #

            Autism is not caused by vaccines. The increase in prevalence is due to increased diagnoses, as we understand ASD better and better. For instance, two of my friends who work as computer programmers, and who are in their 40s, were NOT diagnosed as children, only as adults. One of them was only diagnosed after one of his children was found to have autism.

            I’m not in the U.S., so I’m quoting Canadian figures, as that is my reality. The reality is that, in Canada, the prevalence of autism in children is one in 94. About 1% of the Canadian population (children, teenagers, and adults) has ASD.

            I have no idea where your figures come from and if they are reliable. Mine come from reliable government statistics and legitimate non-profit organizations working in the sector.

            See https://www.autismontario.com/client/aso/ao.nsf/web/Info+about+ASD?OpenDocument

            And even the 1 in 94 is an estimate. We don’t have hard numbers

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 5:11 pm #

            Oh dear, buckle up for a tutorial from cia about how she never met a rude or stupid child her whole life until she starved her baby.

            Or something.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 5:18 pm #

            Exactly! My husband was in his early fifties, and I was 49, when we got diagnosed at the same time as one of our sons.

            The vast majority of autistic people born before the early 1990s don’t have a formal diagnosis, especially if they are women.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 14, 2018 at 5:20 pm #

            Cia doesn’t think anyone with an autism spectrum condition qualifies as a full human being. They’re all subhuman to her. She does not think they have jobs or friends, or that they are able to enjoy the arts. She also thinks that her definition of a real person is the one everyone should abide by. You’re up against one of the nastiest bigots you’re ever going to deal with re:autism.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 5:25 pm #

            Indeed. That’s bloody obvious. As it happens, I’ve yet to meet a proselytising member of the pro-disease child haters cult who isn’t ableist, racist and bigoted.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:46 pm #

            Not just anyone with autism, anyone with any kind of mental handicap, or even just a lower IQ than she deems acceptable. To her, we are of “lesser moral worth” because we cannot consider morality as deeply as she can. Not that she actually displays any consideration of morality, or knows our actual intelligence, let alone our concern for doing right by others.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:35 pm #

            Mostly her statistics come from someone’s rectum. I asked numerous times for the source of her 1 in 36 claim, but my requests were never even acknowledged.

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 6:37 pm #

            Aren’t you blocked? Or have you not yet joined the exclusive club?

            I must say the thought of being blocked by cia almost tempts me to sign up for a disqus account.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:50 pm #

            She claimed she was blocking me. Since she thought that was done by clicking on someone’s avatar, I’m not sure if she ever accomplished it or not.

          • Heidi
            January 14, 2018 at 6:40 pm #

            I also recall Cia claiming high functioning, verbal people who’ve been diagnosed with autism do not count as really autistic. So if one is to use cia’s standards, the number is much lower.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 6:42 pm #

            Depends on the day. Sometimes we’re “not that autistic if we can talk”, other times, we’re “without empathy because of our autism, and unconcerned about those who have it worse, and just want to revel in our disease” or something like that.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 14, 2018 at 8:41 pm #

            And of course it’s hilarious she even says the part about “you can’t be that autistic if you can talk”. She thinks any level of autism renders a person in permanent deficit of basic humanity. She’s explicitly said so. She doesn’t think it matters if we can talk. We still aren’t people, we’re just subhumans who can so a parlor trick.

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 3:32 pm #

            …and our vaccination program is easily as or more aggressive than the US depending on the province.

            One of the things I find interesting about the vaccine critical folk like cia is how enormous they seem to think the effect size of whatever problem they are currently blaming on vaccines is.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 3:38 pm #

            From what info I can find, no province in Canada recommends Hepatits A vaccine for all kids, while the US does. Other than that, for most provinces, the schedules are pretty much the same as the US.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 4:37 pm #

            And, all Canadian provinces recommend Meningitis C for 12 month olds, British Columbia also gives it at 2 months. So basically the same number of vaccines, but a couple different ones.

            ETA: Link- https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/provincial-territorial-immunization-information/provincial-territorial-routine-vaccination-programs-infants-children.html

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 15, 2018 at 5:31 pm #

            Yes, different provinces and territories do things slightly differently, depending on the epidemiology of the diseases in that particular area. Since health care is basically paid for by the province (it’s a lot more complicated than that, but that’s what it comes down to), they do a cost-benefit analysis and decide who needs to be vaccinated for what, and when.

            For those interested, here’s a long document about why the hepatitis A vaccine is only given in situations deemed high risk:
            https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/update-recommended-use-hepatitis-vaccine.html

            There’s a similar one for hep B.

            I was vaccinated for neither hepatitis A or B as part of routine vaccinations, but I was vaccinated against both when I was travelling to areas of the world where I could be at risk for infection. Those I had to pay for out-of-pocket, as travel immunizations are not covered, at least in the province I lived in at the time. Then when I started working as a health professional, I had to have my titres for both tested, to prove that I had sufficient immunity. I was also vaccinated against rabies. Had to have my titres checked for MMRV as well. Sadly the varicella immunity was acquired “naturally” which in my case meant being very ill, as I had pox in my mouth and down my throat and couldn’t eat or drink. Then I had the “pleasure” of experiencing shingles as a young adult (extremely painful, couldn’t sleep for pretty much several weeks until my doctor finally prescribed some decent painkillers) – it’s not just seniors who develop shingles!

            Interestingly enough, one of my good friends who serves in the Canadian Armed Forces has been vaccinated against anything and everything – he’s quite a bit older than myself and deployed for the first time during the Gulf War as a young Lieutenant. He’s the healthiest person I know – no chronic illnesses, blood pressure that’s better than mine, still running marathons in his 50s, and overall still deployable! And he’s had more vaccines than anyone I know. Anecdotal evidence, of course, but they haven’t done him any harm!

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 6:03 pm #

            Hep B is a part of every province’s vaccine schedule now. The US used to only give Hep A to “high-risk” groups but changed their policy at some point in time. (Too lazy to look it up right now.)

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 15, 2018 at 6:52 pm #

            Right. I had forgotten that, as I don’t actually vaccinate any patients myself! I was thinking about the fact that not all provinces vaccinate for Hep B at birth (although some do). Here in Ontario it’s in grade 7. I know the people designing the schedules use the best evidence available to them, and that’s really what matters.

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 5:59 pm #

            You’re right. I forgot it’s only for risk groups right now (which in provinces like Vancouver includes all Native children). I’d say IMHO it’s not unusual for a doc to mention the A/B combo vaccine as an option though. Depending on where you are you can get it for $10-$20 a shot. Since the parent is probably going to vaccinate for B anyway.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 8:55 pm #

            With the popularity of piercings and tattoos these days (sorry, I’m Exhibit A), the HepB shot is an even better idea…

            Actually, if you do acupuncture – well, I mean, don’t do that, but that’s another way you can get HepB, so the shot is a good idea.

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 9:50 pm #

            Good point. My wife and I both had the combo shot before we went to Malawi. We had the kids vaccinated similarly before we took them to China.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 8:10 pm #

            And we have good beer too!

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 8:16 pm #

            Sadly I’m more of a scotch man. The greatness of Canadian beer is somewhat wasted on me.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 8:52 pm #

            They combination of good beer, and fine single malt scotch is something I am passionate about. The scotch was kept in the barn over the holidays. I love my family but not much.

          • Claire Secrist
            January 15, 2018 at 12:04 pm #

            Haha I missed how funny this is. She told an MPH to Google facts about public health.

          • shay simmons
            January 15, 2018 at 2:43 pm #

            Canada is not the US, parker. Reading comprehension fail.

            Again.

          • Verna Lang
            January 15, 2018 at 5:19 pm #

            If you are maintaining that vaccines are responsible for the increase in the diagnosis of autism in the US, then you should also be crediting vaccines with reducing the number of children diagnosed with intellectual disability. Or you could just look at the graph and conclude that more children are given the more accurate diagnosis of autism rather than ID. Those kids now have a much better chance of being helped in a regular school environment rather than a restricted ID setting. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a3f279008705caead9f04c6d11ef87ae2ade268f04dfd71c2ef0e2cdba34d018.jpg

          • Azuran
            January 14, 2018 at 1:16 pm #

            What about if your child gets hurt from a vaccine preventable illness that you didn’t vaccine against?

            Both have risks, we all agree on that, but the risks of vaccines are actually close to nothing compared to the risks of the illness. You are just wrong and deluded about the risks of vaccines.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:42 pm #

            Name the illness you think this applies to.
            Parents need to be well-informed. There is no 100% guaranteed choice which will always prevent all suffering from either a disease or a vaccine reaction. That’s why I cautiously recommend the DT vaccine (it’s no longer available as just the T, but the DT is less reactive than the T, and although diphtheria is gone, it would be bad if it came back). I very cautiously recommend consideration of the often-dangerous Hib vaccine for babies between six and eighteen months old who are in daycare and not breastfed. The disease had BECOME very dangerous by the ’80s before the vaccine (it hadn’t been very dangerous before that time, and it’s also true that we don’t know what would happen if it came back). One in two hundred babies got a serious case and one in a thousand died of it in the years right before the vaccine. Still not a huge number, and the vaccine IS dangerous, so I’d have to let the parents decide. Polio I’d recommend, but only if it came back here. Hep-B only if the mother had it. The other vaccines I don’t recommend, while every disease can occasionally kill or disable, I don’t recommend the others because either the vaccines are MORE dangerous, and/or the diseases are usually mild or beneficial for the vast majority.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 3:51 pm #

            One in two hundred babies got a serious case and one in a thousand died of it in the years right before the vaccine. Still not a huge number, and the vaccine IS dangerous, so I’d have to let the parents decide.

            Do you honestly think that 1 in 200 serious cases of HiB (that is, 5,000 per million) are even remotely equivalent to a less than 1 in 1,000,000 chance of a vaccine reaction? And that a death rate of 1 in 1,000 (1,000 per million) is ‘not a huge number’ compared to zero deaths from vaccination? And that makes vaccines more dangerous? How?

            That is unbelievably evil. You are a perfect example of why I call people like you ‘the pro-disease child haters cult’.

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 12:42 pm #

            I don’t recommend

            Why are your recommendations worth anything? I mean just take a shufti at this

            the diseases are usually mild or beneficial for the vast majority.

            So that is, according to you sufficient reason to recommend avoiding vaccination. As long as a disease is mild or beneficial for the vast majority that is good reason to take this course of action..

            You would have a hard time pointing to a vaccine in the current schedule which doesn’t have mild side effects AND is beneficial for the vast majority. So your logic also says it’s also recommended to vaccinate. Since these are mutually exclusive options you have effectively shown that your rationale is inconsistent. It’s just cherry picked based on your own prejudices.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 1:19 pm #

            Every vaccine often causes very severe and permanent damage. So you need to agree to very few vaccines and only the most necessary ones in your time and place. The childhood diseases are actively very beneficial to go through naturally and are nearly always relatively mild. It used to be that most people had subclinical immunity to all of them by middle childhood, so, again, I don’t care what people choose. Natural immunity is better, but diseases like tetanus and diphtheria are so severe that I think the DT series (no pertussis) is a good idea after the age of two. However, tetanus was never common, never over a couple thousand cases a year (50% death rate before the vaccine), and diphtheria has been eradicated (unless it came back), so refusing even these vaccines would pose minimal risk and no risk of vaccine reaction.

            Those who don’t want to consider my recommendations are free to reject them. I don’t care. It’s their life. If they listen to you and your colleagues, their child stands a very high chance of getting autism, a seizure disorder, or any number of autoimmune diseases. A MUCH higher chance than that of having a disabling or fatal case of ANY of the VPDs. If that doesn’t faze them, if they get off on the religious ecstasy of the vaccine narrative, and don’t care about disabling their child for life, they are certainly free to do so.

            Even getting the DT series poses some risk of disability or death. So it is an important decision that parents must make carefully. As I said, I’d recommend careful consideration of the HIb vaccine for babies between six and eighteen months old who are not breastfed and are in daycare. The vaccine is dangerous, but under those circumstances, I think the disease is more dangerous.

            I don’t have to be dogmatic. I fully recognize that vaccines are always dangerous, and also that most of them are effective in preventing the targeted disease for a limited length of time (the pertussis and flu vaccines are very IN-effective and not ever worth taking the risk for). It’s up to parents to decide in which cases they judge the particular disease to be MORE dangerous to their child at his age and his time and place. And there are also homeopathic nosodes which are very effective at preventing all the vaccine-preventable diseases and which are, unlike vaccines, always safe.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:23 pm #

            “Every vaccine often causes very severe and permanent damage. ”

            Aaand there go the goalposts. They really are getting comically OTT, though. Pretty soon it will be “The presence of a vaccine in city limits will often kill puppies in that city.”

            “always safe”

            You can overdose on water and die. It’s happened.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 1:30 pm #

            So, to you, a 50% chance of death from tetanus (and what an utterly hideous death it is) is ‘minimal’ risk?

            No risk of vaccine reaction, true (as if avoiding a slightly sore patch on your arm is more important than avoiding a gruesome disease); but then dying from pneumonia avoids an allergic reaction to antibiotics – so, according to your logic, we shouldn’t treat respiratory diseases either.

            Despite being asked over, and over, and over, and over again, you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever for your astonishing assertion that “childhood diseases are actively very beneficial to go through naturally”.

            By the way, vaccine-induced immunity is natural – no magic involved.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 1:34 pm #

            Okay, more BS from the bovine queen. Her statements have been sufficiently debunked here and across the world wide web, that it is pointless to continue with her. I am posting with the hopes of hitting the 2000 post mark quickly, and closing this thread.

            Have a great day.
            JSprat

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 15, 2018 at 1:35 pm #

            Perhaps we can take it in turns posting links to useful sites for the lurkers to read?

          • StephanieJR
            January 15, 2018 at 3:24 pm #

            If you enjoy cute bunny pictures (and information about care), go here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rabbits/

            If you like reading about unsolved mysteries, go here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/

            And if you fancy a laugh, check these out:

            https://satwcomic.com
            http://www.cakewrecks.com
            https://wtfduolingo.tumblr.com

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 2:19 pm #

            Those who don’t want to consider my recommendations are free to reject them. I don’t care.

            Sorry if this was unclear. My question was: Why are your recommendations worth anything at all? Why do they have even the most microscopic likelihood of avoiding harm?

            I don’t have to be dogmatic.

            Well is there a point that you stop?

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 7:40 pm #

            If you don’t care for my recommendations, don’t read them. Many ARE interested in my recommendations, being concerned about the massive crime being committed by the erstwhile trusted authorities, now robbers who care nothing at all about severely damaging or killing our children.

            You’ve thrown in your lot with the criminals. Fine. Do proceed as you like (at this time).

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 8:07 pm #

            If you don’t care for my recommendations

            I find it interesting that you can’t answer the question I’ve posed. Surely you must see that whether people like your opinion or not is the most worthless kind information you could possibly provide. Right?

            So, if it isn’t too much trouble. Can you tell me WHY are your recommendations worth anything at all?

            Many ARE interested

            However since you won’t answer this question to them. The people who are interested can’t be people who examine your recommendations critically. Right? Everyone here who examines your opinions in a critical fashion gets told nonsense like

            You’ve thrown in your lot with the criminals.

            . So therefore the only people you can interest are those without critical faculties. Which, is pretty unethical. Right?

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 8:15 pm #

            I have spent thousands of hours studying many books on vaccines, vaccine-preventable diseases, and vaccine damage, including autism, since my daughter was vaccine-damaged. I know a lot more about these issues than most people, and I am not a client of the pharma industry in any way, so I am unbiased. I back up everything I say with outside sources, many of them from scientific studies or statements of physicians or scientists, many of them from those who have studied the issues independently, whether their family has been personally vaccine-damaged or not.

            Again, I don’t care a single thing about whether you approve or agree with anything I say. You are clearly one of the pharma defenders, and every word out of your mouth will redound to its benefit.

            Since all you want to do is bully me, I am blocking you.

          • Box of Salt
            January 15, 2018 at 8:22 pm #

            ciaparker “I am unbiased”

            Wrong. Your are biased because you believe that “[your] daughter was vaccine-damaged.”

            You cling to that idea as if it were gospel truth, and you will allow no information to change it. That is biased.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 8:37 pm #

            I saw my daughter react to the hep-B vaccine with encephalitic screaming syndrome. I saw her lose her only words as soon as she got the DTaP at 18 months, when she said not another word for another year and a half. She was diagnosed with autism at 20 months, two months after the shot that erased her words.
            And what happened to her has happened to millions of other children, same symptoms, same result. You say it’s normal for a baby to scream constantly and inconsolably for four days and nights, when those who care identify it as vaccine-induced vaccine encephalitis, which often causes severe brain damage and autism. You say it’s normal to have started saying two words (delayed but progressing) and then have them disappear forever as soon as she got a shot. Sure it is. Totally normal to have your language erased.

            Do you realize how clearly dishonest your view is? And it really doesn’t matter: everyone now knows children whose language was erased by a vaccine (usually the MMR, sometimes other vaccines, as in our case, any vaccine can cause encephalitis), and they soon regress into autism.

            I found this website last night, with a lot of links related to vaccine encephalitis. We don’t need doctors to mediate for us between our experience and reality. Doctors have shown how craven or what industry slaves they are. We’re finding our own way. And we recognize industry liars when we see them.

            INFOPAGE: Encephalitis
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis
            INFOPAGE: Vaccine Inserts
            http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm
            STUDY: Deep sequencing reveals persistence of cell-associated mumps vaccine virus in chronic encephalitis
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27770235
            “The previously healthy proband developed fatal encephalitis after exposure to the live attenuated measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine.”
            STUDY: Human IFNAR2 deficiency: Lessons for antiviral immunity
            http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/7/307/307ra154
            STUDY: Sudden infant death following hexavalent vaccination
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24083600/
            STUDY: Relative trends in hospitalizations and mortality among infants by the number of vaccine doses and age
            http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0960327112440111
            STUDY: Infant Mortality Rates Regressed against number of Vaccines
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/
            STUDY: Simultaneous sudden infant death syndrome
            http://www.greenmedinfo.com/…/simultaneous-sudden-infant-de…
            “This study reports a significant increase in the incidence of sepsis evaluations, respiratory support, and intubation after immunization of premature babies in the NICU.”
            STUDY: Differentiating Sepsis From Adverse Events After Immunization in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit
            https://jamanetwork.com/…/jamapedi…/article-abstract/2300374
            INFOPAGE: When the CDC Pertussis VIS says, “Lowered Consciousness,” It Means Hypotonic-Hyporesponsive Episode
            http://mainevaxchoice.org/…/when-the-cdc-pertussis-vis-say…/
            ARTICLE: The Vaccine Did It: Mutated MMR Mumps Virus in the Brain of a Child Caused His Death, British Researchers Confirm
            http://www.greenmedinfo.com/…/vaccine-did-it-mutated-mmr-mu…
            “Boys vaccinated as neonates had threefold greater odds for autism diagnosis compared to boys never vaccinated or vaccinated after the first month of life.”
            STUDY: Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170
            STUDY: Adverse Events following 12 and 18 Month Vaccinations
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3236196/
            http://holisticlifemama.com/7-reasons-decided-not-vacci

          • Heidi
            January 15, 2018 at 8:44 pm #

            No one is saying your daughter crying inconsolably for four days is normal. What we find abnormal is you didn’t seek medical attention for your daughter in a timely manner, especially considering your daughter had an eventful birth. We know that when you did go to the pediatrician, the pediatrician was shocked at how much weight she lost.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 9:10 pm #

            Because I had never heard of vaccine encephalitis, and did not know that its major symptom was constant, inconsolable screaming for three hours or more. My mother told the doctor, and he brushed it off as colic (which never occurs in the first week of life, and does not interfere with feeding). But because I didn’t know, hadn’t read it, the hospital staff didn’t tell me any symptoms to be on the lookout for, didn’t give me the vaccine information sheet, I couldn’t think of any reason my healthy baby would be screaming for sixteen hours a day for four days and nights.

            The doctor should have thought of it, should have asked questions about it, should have ordered a brain scan, but he didn’t. I doubt HE was aware of the existence of vaccine encephalitis.

            There are federal and state laws requiring free and informed consent to vaccines. But I recently found out that they do not apply to hospitals, which are allowed to give any shots they want to without permission. And so they’ve given the hep-B vaccine to millions of babies without permission and without warning the parents of the symptoms of vaccine encephalitis caused so often by it. Patti White at the congressional safety hearing on the hep-B vaccine in 1999 testified that the sudden avalanche of autism in Missouri kindergartners starting in 1996 (the hep-b vaccine for all newborns started in 1991) had been caused by this casual giving the very dangerous vaccine to all newborns (often without permission). So the parents of thousands of autistic Missouri kindergartners had had their newborns suffer from vaccine encephalitis, and they missed the diagnosis too. Because we are all taught that newborns cry a lot, and no one tells us that if it’s constant and inconsolable for over three hours, that means it’s vaccine encephalitis. Go on, go out there and take a survey of how many parents of newborns were warned about encephalitic screaming syndrome, quite common since 1991.

            And Merck promised to take out the mercury in 1999, at that hearing, but continued to sell already-existing mercury-containing stock until the expiration date in 2002. And so they gave my infant a mercury-containing vaccine to which she reacted with both vaccine encephalitis and mercury-poisoning. When I had made a special trip to the pediatrician a month earlier only to tell him I didn’t want her to get that vaccine.

            You lot play good cop bad cop. Half of you say it was abnormal and I should have realized it, the other half say it was obviously only colic and obviously no big deal. And then Mike Stevens flips a coin to decide which ploy he’ll use that go-round.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 9:40 pm #

            You don’t know what vaccine your daughter had. You’ve said that yourself many times over. You claim the hospital doesn’t have a record. I think it’d be funnier than heck if you found the record and she had a thimerosal-free dose.

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 9:42 pm #

            you needed to be told that constant inconsolable screaming for days was cause to take your baby to the ER? What the hell kind of parental instincts were you using? If she really did scream nonstop for days, you shouldn’t have had to be told anything about any particular diagnosis to take her in and say please look at my baby.

            which is why I don’t think she really did.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 11:27 pm #

            That’s right. I did not know it. I had always heard of parents saying that their babies kept them up all night with their crying. I thought that I was seeing why so many said that. If I had read or heard or if some medical professional had told me that constant, inconsolable screaming was the marker of a medical emergency, then I would have rushed her to the ER.

            But this scenario was new in 1991. My daughter was born in 2000, but unfortunately my large number of baby care books had all been written before the hepatitis-B vaccine began to be given at birth, and we first started to see large numbers of newborns scream constantly and inconsolably for hours on end, and we first started to see autism all around us. It would certainly have been helpful if, since the hospital took it upon itself to give a dangerous vaccine soon after birth to every single last newborn, without permission and WITH mercury, to have given us warning of the symptoms of the vaccine encephalitis which had become so common. If it even knew it itself, it should certainly have explained that the differences between harmless colic and disabling or fatal vaccine encephalitis were the following: colic never starts before the third week and it does not interfere with feeding. If it starts in the week after the hep-B vaccine was given without permission, especially between three and five days after the vaccine was given (in our case it was nearly four days), and if it interferes with feeding, then that means a medical emergency and bankruptcy and eternal shame for the negligent medical facility, and for the doctor who had promised not to give the hep-B vaccine after birth. But they care NOTHING about the bankruptcy and loss of reputation if it’s a question of saving an infant’s life and mind! The hospital should have known about the safety hearing in May 1999, which found that the vaccine was dangerous and should never be given with mercury. It should have known that it was giving newborns the shot WITH mercury even a year later, should have known it was dangerous and that many infants would react to it.

            But all you’re programmed to do is tear up the victims and defend the vaccine industry and its minions. You know what that makes you: I need not say it.

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 11:37 pm #

            then you, my dear, have piss-poor parenting instincts.

          • ciaparker2
            January 16, 2018 at 12:30 pm #

            And the doctor, nurses, and hospital were criminally negligent, both in giving the vaccine without permission, without giving me the vaccine information sheet, and without any verbal indication of what severe symptoms indicating a vaccine reaction would look like. Criminally criminal in giving the hep-B vaccine WITH mercury and WITHOUT prior notice to or permission from the parents, twelve months after the congressional safety hearing which found it was very dangerous and should never be given with mercury. I’m sure Capital Region Medical Center got it at a cut rate as Merck was trying to unload all its mercury-containing stock at a huge discount. I’m naming names. Capital Region Medical Center and Dr. Douglas Boudreau. If they want to sue me, I WELCOME it, because then I could have a jury hear my case. Criminally criminal in giving it despite Patti White’s congressional testimony that the huge new numbers of autistic kindergartners in Missouri in 1996 were totally owing to their encephalitic reactions to the hep-B given at birth starting in 1991.

          • Bored Now
            January 16, 2018 at 8:47 am #

            cia, you really can write volumes when you want to. However I’d rather like to hear what specifically makes your opinions better than nothing.

            So far your list is:

            – You have spent thousands of hours reading books however there was either no concern to the quality of the information in them or you didn’t mention how you decided which books contained the highest quality information. So you could have easily been studying only the lowest quality information. Right? Which would likely lead you in the wrong direction. Right?
            – You do not directly benefit from vaccine sales — congratulations you’re just like everyone else here.
            – You think you know more than most people — no offense but this describes an awful lot of people on the internet.
            – You support your statements with opinions from experts, articles, and stories from people but it seems that because of the wide variety of opinion expressed from these sources it doesn’t seem likely that you are going to have a better than average opinion here. So your opinion could be in the wrong direction. Right?

            Have I missed anything? I think you can understand why these don’t necessarily make your opinions useful. Is there anything else?

          • FallsAngel
            January 16, 2018 at 9:44 am #

            we first started to see large numbers of newborns scream constantly and
            inconsolably for hours on end, and we first started to see autism all
            around us.

            Who’s this “we”, cia. I worked in pediatrics through all those years, and “we” saw no such thing.

          • January 16, 2018 at 9:53 am #

            I’ve said this before, but I saw nonstop screaming with my second kid–until we gave him a bottle of formula and I stopped trying to shove a (bleeding) boob in his mouth. This was all on the first day of life, though.

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 11:44 am #

            Cia Parker’s story sounds so much like every story I’ve heard on this site of delayed milk production – screaming, refusing the boob, and losing weight in the first week. 🙁 🙁 Her poor kid, on so many levels.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:21 pm #

            Agreed. We cannot know what really happened, since our information consists only of what Cia tells us, but it sure sounds like much of this distress was caused by insufficient intake. Whether this episode has aught to do with the child’s language difficulties I cannot say.

          • Heidi
            January 16, 2018 at 12:40 pm #

            The one consistent thing about Cia Parker’s story is you’ll always find an inconsistency from what she’s said before. I keep reading she already knew the Hep B vaccine caused autism so she told her doctor she refused it for her daughter. Then we read she total had no idea about this fake encephalitis syndrome that causes autism she pulled either out of her butt or one of her quacky books so totally thought it was normal for her baby to cry inconsolably for 16 hours a day and refuse to nurse. Okay, so she claims the vaccine was given against her knowledge. I am not sure I can believe that, but seriously, even if she didn’t think her daughter was given the Hep B vaccine, I still don’t understand why she didn’t seek medical care. If one doctor seems too dismissive, what’s to stop her from seeking a second opinion? Or going to the ER? I generally trust the medical establishment and despite an Ask-A-Nurse telling me to take a Zyrtec for a serious allergic reaction to sulfa and that I didn’t need medical care, I decided she didn’t comprehend everything I was telling her or I left out some relevant information or maybe she was doling out bad advice but whatever the case, I sought ER treatment. With my child, I do not hesitate as much as I do with myself. I am supposed to believe someone like Cia would have followed her doctor’s supposed advice that everything was absolutely fine?? The person who goes against doctors’ advice all the time? Who was already going against established medical advice by refusing the Hep B vaccine? Who was already giving credence to anti-vaxx conspiracy theories? The person who won’t protect her dog against heartworms despite knowing she lives in an area where heartworms are everywhere?

            Then she pulls this 1 out of 36 children is autistic which can’t actually be found from a valid website; it seems to be more like 1 in 88. But she also claims high functioning, verbal individuals with autism do not count as actually having autism. I’ve read that approximately 25% of those with autism are non-verbal. So I’m guessing the reality is something more like 1 in 352 meet Cia’s diagnosis as really having autism. Her daughter is sometimes portrayed as being verbal and able to call Cia on the phone and beg to be taken home or tell the doctor all about mercury in vaccines or her words were erased forever and her life will never be worth living.

            Cia also claims to have MS, and that I do generally believe. But supposedly it has zapped her of all energy and she can’t function. Except somewhere, she manages to read and promote dozens of bullshit books, comments dozens of times a day on this blog alone (and her average comment is a few dozen sentences). She is also on chelation therapy to rid herself of the mercury she believes is the root of her MS but I haven’t seen that she’s claimed her MS is getting better. One would think you’d gradually get better with this miracle treatment, but I guess after seven years, it just magically dissipates.

            And I’m not sure how Cia knows her daughter was given the Hep B vaccine. That story changes from they have no record of it, to she waited too long to take it to court, to hospitals can do whatever they want to your baby without your knowledge or consent. I kind of believe Cia’s daughter never got the vaccine.

          • Box of Salt
            January 15, 2018 at 8:45 pm #

            ciaparker, you view everything from the point of view of vaccine damage. This is by definition biased.

            I am not dishonest for pointing that out.

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 8:50 pm #

            We don’t need doctors to mediate for us between our experience and reality

            You might need a statistician or two. 🙂

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 9:40 pm #

            again, just one more time for the sake of stating the truth, the vaccine did not erase your daughter’s language. She didn’t have language. She was a 4 year old whose only “language” was two almost identical grunting sounds. The fact that she was diagnosed with autism 2 months later doesn’t mean the vaccine made her autistic. It means that someone finally got around to diagnosing her with the autism that she quite obviously already had. Because otherwise she’d have had actual words at age 4, not grunts, and way more than 2 words. She didn’t become autistic 2 months after that shot. She just got *finally* diagnosed.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 8:23 pm #

            Bored Now is now a member of a marginally undistinguished club. Cheers to Bored Now

          • Who?
            January 15, 2018 at 8:25 pm #

            So where did the drugs you had in hospital for your MS come from, if not the pharma industry?

            Since you claim to be not a client in any way.

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 11:34 am #

            Ah, but she doesn’t take disease-modifying treatment for her MS, only steroids for symptomatic treatment. Which… aren’t made by pharmaceutical companies, somehow?

            Nobody tell her that a lot of pharma companies have hopped onto the gravy train of manufacturing supplements…

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 15, 2018 at 8:36 pm #

            So you read books by people who make money by selling books to people like you. That does not make you an expert. The books you read were by people with one intent: to make money. In writing those books, they will often reference scientific studies, but those are either old, poorly done, or do not reach the conclusions that the book authors claim. Or else they are in vitro or animal studies, which do not always translate to human studies. These authors know that people, like you, will latch onto the studies, without actually reading the original papers themselves, and without the ability to critique the papers even if they read them.

            My question for you: why are the tiny majority of studies that support your view valid, and the vast majority of the scientific literature out there that contracts your view, invalid? Of course, there are good studies and bad studies, but when the overwhelming evidence does not support your view, how can you claim that scientific studies support your position? Surely the vast majority of researchers, health professionals, research institutes, public health agencies, publishing houses, and graduate students aren’t all pharma shills? Even pharmaceutical companies don’t make enough to pay off almost every single person who would need to be involved in this conspiracy.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 8:53 pm #

            I told you what happened. And it does not fit into your preconceived notions of reality. My daughter suffered horribly for years. The doctor did nothing and did not care. I put her on the diet I had read about and it healed her. No more sobbing from pain and crying for me to get her at school, no more backed up toilets, no more constipation. This is called reality.

            The pharma companies are running scared. They have to deny that their products cause autism and autoimmune disease, including bowel disease. They have billions of dollars to fund studies that will come up with the desired results, known as “pharma-funded.”

            I don’t think our pediatrician was paid by a pharma company, but I think what happened to my daughter was outside what she was taught in med school, and she preferred to stay on safe ground rather than become curious and venture out into today’s reality. Because it would have led her to renounce Pharma Reality if she were honest.

            It is beyond my view. I saw a survey of autism parents several years ago, rating about a hundred different therapies, supplements, vitamins, etc., as to whether they had improved their children’s condition. I looked at it looking for the items which had gotten over 70% helped, to see what might help my daughter (and, again, we have to help each other, all doctors are allowed to say is, Well, ABA therapy is the only one with proven results and the only one we can recommend). The only two remedies which got over 70% were mercury chelation therapy and the gluten-free, casein-free, or Paleo/grain-free diets.

            So we have you and your colleagues saying Well, our pharma-funded study found that the diet did not help at all, while hundreds of independent studies show that it DID, and MIlLIONS of people, both autists and typical people with bowel disease, have learned that the diets HEAL their condition. And so that’s why there are literally hundreds of websites devoted to some form of the gluten-free diet. People have learned that they work, and that the medical profession really, really doesn’t care.

          • momofone
            January 15, 2018 at 9:36 pm #

            You just said your daughter was normal for years. You are completely unreliable, and I expect that your daughter pays the price daily for your ignorance and your arrogance.

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 11:12 pm #

            We were talking about bowel disease. She had normal bowel function until the high fever the summer she was seven. She was autistic from the beginning, since she suffered vaccine encephalitis from days four to eight after birth, which did severe brain damage. She was delayed but saying two words by 18 months old: both were erased forever as soon as she got the DTaP booster at that time, and she was diagnosed with autism two months later.
            What vultures you are. How in the world did they manage to find this large a pack of vicious hyenas?

          • Nick Sanders
            January 16, 2018 at 8:34 am #

            Well, you started waving a large piece of rotting meat about.

            Except you’re the one eating it while we’re all trying to tell you how bad it smells.

          • Heidi
            January 16, 2018 at 8:53 am #

            How were her words lost forever when you were claiming your daughter called you from school and begged you to take her home?

          • Claire Secrist
            January 16, 2018 at 10:02 am #

            You’re using your daughter as a tool to forward a conspiracy theory agenda, exposing her medical history to the entire world, and describing people like her as useless and subhuman. I promise you that vultures and hyenas are exponentially better parents than you are, in light of these facts.

          • rosewater1
            January 16, 2018 at 10:23 am #

            YOU came here. YOU opened an account. YOU posted your story. No one hacked into your life and spread your information.

            When you post anything on the internet you give up ownership. People can-and do-say what they like.

            It’s very simple, Cia. If you don’t like what we have to say-and you clearly don’t-GO AWAY.

            If you want to be an anti-vax advocate, go somewhere else. Start your own blog. Clearly you aren’t getting what you want from people here.

            Just as we have no power to tone police your comments, you don’t get to do that for us. You give your opinion. We give ours.

            At least that’s how it works until Lord High Cheeto Head decides we don’t get to do that anymore…but that’s a different topic altogether.

          • Empress of the Iguana People
            January 16, 2018 at 11:27 am #

            Cia, how did -you- find us? Know what? Mom always avoided the snakes at the zoo because they creeped her out, so we went to look at the nice elephants, bison, and zebras. Go find a nice scrapbooking blog.

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 9:37 pm #

            yes, we’re the ones who reject anything that doesn’t fit into our preconceived notion of reality. Sigh.

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 9:55 pm #

            So we have you and your colleagues saying Well, our pharma-funded study found that the diet did not help at all, while hundreds of independent studies show that it DID, and MIlLIONS of people

            How do you know that the reality isn’t that the strong evidence is what is pointing against the diet and it’s the weak evidence (small studies, animal models, cite papers, personal testimonies) which are pointing away from it.

            Do you really not think it’s possible or even expected for millions of people to be wrong about their experiences?

          • Bored Now
            January 15, 2018 at 8:38 pm #

            I have spent thousands of hours studying many books on vaccines

            Aren’t there opinions which are diametrically opposed championed by various books? How do you know you are reading the correct books? Isn’t it reasonable that someone can, in this case spend a lot of time reading the wrong books and therefore have a worthless opinion?

            I know a lot more about these issues than most people

            Isn’t this is only based on the principle that you believe yourself to be right and everyone opposed to you is wrong?

            , and I am not a client of the pharma industry in any way, so I am unbiased.

            Can’t someone be exceptionally biased and not a client of the pharma industry or vice versa?

            I back up everything I say with outside sources

            You haven’t presented a single source supporting your claim that you’ve read the correct books, studies, and have the capacity to properly interpret them. Doesn’t make sense that you could cite dozens of sources but if you are reading the wrong papers and books (or simply reading them incorrectly) and still have an opinion that is worthless?

            statements of physicians or scientists

            Again aren’t there physicians or scientists with diametrically opposed views on this? How are you ensuring you are reading the right people?

            Again, I don’t care a single thing about whether you approve or agree with anything I say.

            …and again why do you keep coming back to this point? Isn’t it entirely irrelevant. Even if every person on the planet loved your ideas. Couldn’t you still be wrong? Couldn’t everyone in the world hate your ideas and you still be right?

            Since all you want to do is bully me, I am blocking you.

            Aren’t you the one demanding that if people don’t accept your opinions — entirely without reason as to why you are someone to be listened to — you will call them criminals or other names or just block them?

            That kind of sounds like you’re the bully here.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 15, 2018 at 8:42 pm #

            She’s not a client of the pharma industry, except for all the medicines she buys.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 9:13 pm #

            Cia Parker most definitely _is_ doing work to benefit the pharmaceutical industry.

            My own company alone makes treatments for cervical cancer and liver cancer, both of which are far more prevalent in the absence of HPV and HepB vaccination. We have an influenza pipeline, as well. We make a lot of money off of people convinced not to vaccinate by Cia Parker!

            If she’s not getting paid, she’s working for free for Big Pharma.

            Me, I’d be happy if we lost our market for treatment of the downstream effects of VPDs. We have other things to work on that aren’t getting adequately addressed at the moment.

          • shay simmons
            January 16, 2018 at 3:11 pm #

            Since all you want to do is disagree with bully me, I am blocking you.

            FTFY.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 15, 2018 at 8:19 pm #

            I’m curious who these alleged people are. Apart from Sabelmouse, I see very few people ever chiming in to support you or even upvote your posts.

          • Box of Salt
            January 15, 2018 at 8:26 pm #

            Nick, on this site there’s Nonsheep, who chimes in to post along the sames lines as cia’s viewpoint, and we had someone named Judith for a few days, too.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 15, 2018 at 8:57 pm #

            What happened to ilon (?) or SuzNorken? Can’t say I miss them

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 1:52 pm #

            Who was that guy from Switzerland who said that the aluminum in vaccines causes Alzheimer’s, and that Switzerland’s low uptake of MMR was therefore a great thing, even when we pointed out to him that Switzerland has the highest Alzheimer’s rates in western Europe?

          • Jack Sprat
            January 16, 2018 at 2:14 pm #

            Geez, I have no clue. Don’t you sciency peeps keep track of those things?

          • swbarnes2
            January 16, 2018 at 2:16 pm #

            His handle at the time was Barzini, or something like that.

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 3:34 pm #

            That was it! The Amazing Barzini!

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 3:07 pm #

            But Nonsheep hilariously thought that Cia is pro-vax, and had a go at her.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 15, 2018 at 8:12 pm #

            Unless you are a licensed health professional, you shouldn’t be recommending anything.

            Modern vaccines are not dangerous. Yes, vaccine reactions do occur, but they are extremely rare.

            In my province, in 2016, there were 19 serious events post-vaccine reported, which means 2 serious effects for every 1 million vaccine doses administered. That’s very rare. And nowhere near the prevalence that you claim!

          • ciaparker2
            January 15, 2018 at 8:28 pm #

            And why is that? I told you, our pediatrician was against my putting my daughter on the GFCF diet. I asked her what to do about the severe chronic constipation, and she said everyone was different, and some people were just constipated all the time. My daughter was normal until a summer flu in 2007: after that she had bowel disease. A homeopath told me that the high fever had pulled stored vaccine mercury from her bones, initiating the syndrome. But allopathic physicians don’t care anything at all about the suffering of those who don’t fit into their accepted categories or what they were taught in med school. My daughter would call me sobbing from school to come get her, she was in such pain from the unalleviated constipation. Our toilets were always backed up and would overflow onto the floor. She would only “go” once or twice a week, and then the bowel movements were the size of tennis balls, extremely painful to pass and painful when they didn’t pass. And the doctor didn’t care, had nothing to recommend.

            Two days into the GFCF diet, as in the case of millions of other autistic children, she was cured. I told the doctor and she was surprised, but otherwise not interested. So much for ministering to and healing the sick.

            High-fiber, Metamucil, extra water, raw fruits and vegetables, did nothing at all. Yeah, taking a LOT of Miralax etc. alleviated the symptoms, but not the underlying condition. The diet DOES.
            So you’re yet another medical professional who doesn’t care about the sick if they don’t fit into your preconceived notions. Just like all those who react severely to vaccines with autism, ADHD, learning disorders, seizures, asthma, allegies, peanut allergy, paralysis, bowel disease, diabetes, and every autoimmune disease there IS just don’t fit into your preconceived category of VACCINE GOOD, NO HURT ANYONE.

            You’re paying no attention. At this time over half of American children have suffered disabling reactions to vaccines. One in 36 now has autism, up from three in 10,000 in 1987 and 0 in 1900. And so increasing numbers of parents are turning away from received dogma and allopathic physicians, because you’re killing and maiming millions of people and don’t care.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 15, 2018 at 8:41 pm #

            My daughter was normal until a summer flu in 2007

            The daughter who allegedly lost her, by your own admission, extremely limited vocabulary after a pediatric vaccine, had to be put in speech therapy, and didn’t talk again for years?

            A homeopath told me that the high fever had pulled stored vaccine mercury from her bones, initiating the syndrome.

            So a professional liar made up a whole bunch of nonsense, and that convinced you to abandon all reason and evidence?

            My daughter would call me sobbing from school to come get her,

            Your non-verbal, homeschooled daughter?

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 5:25 pm #

            That little thought experiment is well beyond cia’s ability. It requires her to assume she has made an error of judgment, something she cannot envisage.

        • Roadstergal
          January 14, 2018 at 12:56 pm #

          Cia Parker, with all of your biochemistry knowledge, how is it that you didn’t know that formaldehyde is a natural product of metabolism, present in all of us at far greater concentrations than in vaccines? With all of your claimed knowledge about all things medical, how is it that you don’t know the difference between a symptom and a disease?

        • StephanieJR
          January 14, 2018 at 3:25 pm #

          I am typing with one hand, because the other is preoccupied with petting my bunny. My sweet, snuggly bunny, whom gives me lots of kisses and cuddles everyday, and falls asleep in my arms, dreaming happy dreams, regularly. She is a spoilt brat of a bun, content and bright. She is one of the best things in my life. I love her. And I will always protect her. That includes protecting her, and other rabbits, from people like you.

          You can insult me all you like. I can take it. But how dare you talk about my rabbit like I’m harming her. How dare you talk about her as if I don’t try to do my best by her, as if I have not spent sleepless nights and many tears on her, worrying about her health. How dare you insult us by insinuating that I will damage her when I would do almost anything to keep her as healthy as I can as long as I can. So long as she has a decent quality of life, I will keep her.

          Amy is four. I hope she lives to twelve, maybe even longer. She will be an old rabbit at some point, perhaps deaf and/or blind, with arthritis or a stroke. Do you really think that by that point, I will have stopped loving her? That disability makes her unworthy of love? My gran is becoming disabled by her health problems; do I stop loving her because of that?

          I will never feel guilty for vaccinating her. I would feel far more guilty if she caught myxomatosis or RVHD1/2 if I had the chance to protect her and didn’t take it. I will always have rabbits, and I will always vaccinate them. It’s the right thing to do.

          You know nothing. You don’t know us, you don’t know Amy. You don’t know any of the things she likes to do. You don’t know how a disability would affect her. Different degrees of disabilities affect different rabbits. Some can cope better than others, true. I’m probably going to end up with special needs rabbits in future, from age, hopefully, if nothing else. I will love them, protect them, and advocate for them.

          Your spreading lies about vaccines, autism, and other assorted ‘damages’ is disgusting. And extremely dangerous. You risk millions of lives, not just from not vaccinating children, but from not vaccinating your animals against rabies, perhaps the most dangerous and terrifying disease there is. You deny vaccinations for rabbits, too, which is yet another horrible thing (on top of the ablism, racism, eugenics, and defense of child abusers); getting the correct information to properly care for rabbits out there is hard enough without your lies.

          I could spend an entire evening doing my best to tear you down. But I have a soft, fuzzy, cuddly bunny in my arms, full of love. I won’t stop dispelling and deconstructing your lies, since you have nothing better to do with your time than being a horrible fuckface, but mine is better spent caring for the ones I love.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 4:34 pm #

            I have never said or thought that disability makes one unworthy of love. I put up a link to a forum where rabbit owners were grieving over their rabbits having severe reactions to the myxomatosis vaccine. I’m saying that you need to research both the disease in your particular area and the vaccine: its effectiveness and its dangers, before getting any vaccine. If you put pleasing your vet over your rabbit’s welfare, I think that shows lack of love for your rabbit.

            My vet said that there were a lot of parvo cases here, but in the poor area of town. She said there are a lot of cases of heartworm disease. I accepted two parvo vaccines of the type recommended by Dr. Jean Dodds and have not so far accepted heartworm medication for my dog. I have gotten her blood tested twice to see if she had heartworms. I think that is the safer course under our circumstances. I may or may not have made the right decision about the parvo vaccine. I may or may not have made the right decision about the heartworm medication. So far she hasn’t gotten parvo or heartworms.

            I don’t know what your circumstances are. It sounds as though yours were a house rabbit, which I think is the only appropriate choice for a pet you love. How often do possibly myxo-carrying mosquitoes get into your home and bite people and pets? If they do so often, and if myxo is a serious problem among pet rabbits in your area, I’d say the vaccine was probably justified. But if you live in a home in which mosquitoes are rare to absent, and if myxo isn’t a big problem in pet rabbits in your community, I’d say that the vaccine would be more risk than benefit.
            It is not a matter of My vet says to get these vaccines, so that’s what I”m going to do, no need to research it. There are millions of parents who regret having done this.

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 5:09 pm #

            I wonder what your doctors and professional advisers think of being named in your ranting and raving posts. Great for their professional reputations.

            And so long as it’s only the poor folk whose pets are dying, it’s no biggie, amiright?

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 5:22 pm #

            You were told that you had misinterpreted the discussions on that rabbit forum by StephanieJR who has been a member for years and years, so at this point, by repeating what you said before, you are blatantly lying.

          • StephanieJR
            January 14, 2018 at 6:52 pm #

            But that’s the crux of it, isn’t it? To you, disabled/differently abled people are not actual people. Your daughter wasn’t the one you wanted. Either through her genes, difficult birth, starvation, or all three, but in no way vaccines, your child was disabled. Most people don’t want a disabled child. Fine; I will never be in that position, so I won’t judge them for their initial responses, but most people get over it. They help their child and do their best to change the world for them.

            You never did. You decided that your own child was so abhorrent, that since she was very much not what you wanted, that because you didn’t deserve this, someone did this to her. Someone damaged her, that it wasn’t genetics or chance or whatever; it was on purpose. So you pull up this great conspiracy, that there must be a reason behind it. That millions of babies are being damaged for profit. And that you are the sole voice of reason, the whistleblower, the champion. You crusade so valiantly, fighting against your enemies.

            But it’s all lies, Cia. You have been told repeatedly all the ways in which you are wrong; an inconceivable fact, I know. There is no great conspiracy. VPDs are dangerous. Vaccines save lives. These are true. But you don’t believe it; you double down, spouting nonsense, screaming about shills, about killing babies. You make a spectacle of yourself, a shrieking shrew, chattering bullshit and flinging accusations all over the place.

            All because you hate your daughter. That’s the heart of it; she’s autistic, so she must be disabled; she’s disabled, so she must be worth less. She must be disgusting, subhuman, nothing. Your contempt for the disabled come through with every vitriolic word; your bigotry shines a light on your true feelings. I’d be impressed if I wasn’t horrified.

            You’re still not listening to me – I’ve told you that I’m a member of that forum more than once. That that forum post only shows ONE rabbit dying, and not even necessarily because of a vaccine reaction. No one else reported their rabbit having that adverse of a reaction. The only panic was to get the sick rabbits back to the vet quickly enough for treatment; rabbits are so fragile, it is far better to be safe than sorry with them. I have never heard of another death in my years there. I have heard of more deaths from preventable diseases.

            Thank you for implying that I’m too stupid to think for myself and blindly follow my vet’s advice – that’s really telling. I first knew about myxomatosis from reading ‘Watership Down’, actually, called the ‘White Blindness’ by the characters, spoken in horrified words and visceral images, which certainly makes an impression. Because of my deep interest in rabbits, I read up on it, about the skin lesions and tumours; the suffering and the painful death. How it was deliberately introduced to Australia and France to exterminate wild rabbits. Long before I ever talked to a vet, I knew how dangerous myxomatosis was, and that if I wanted a rabbit, I would protect them from it. The vaccine would not cause damage. The disease, which mostly comes from all kinds of biting insects, would almost certainly cause death.

            And let’s not get started on rabbit viral haemorrhage disease, because as much as I’d love to see you try and be an ‘expert’ on that, my bunny needs to go back for her supper, and you’ve bored me enough for one evening.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 7:07 pm #

            I would put it slightly differently: I’d say that the vast majority of parents would prefer that that their child didn’t ever have to cope with a disability, because it can be tough; but if their child did have a disability, the parents would pull out all the stops to mitigate the worst effects. Pretty much the way you feel about your gorgeous rabbit. It’s because we put the child (and you put your rabbit) uppermost in our thoughts, not the disability.

            In other words, most parents would say “I don’t want my child to be disabled”, thinking only of the child, whereas people who think like Cia think only of themselves when they say “I don’t want a disabled child.” as if kids are a commodity.

          • Empress of the Iguana People
            January 14, 2018 at 8:50 pm #

            Aye. We discussed this, my husband and I, since we couldn’t be 100% sure there wasn’t a genetic component, plus I’m a bit older so my children run a higher risk of things like Down’s. We -know- how life can be more complicated because of disability and we definitely hoped our child(ren) wouldn’t be affected by any, but if they were, oh well, we’ll figure it out together.

          • StephanieJR
            January 14, 2018 at 9:17 pm #

            Thank you for rephrasing that; I was a little rushed and not too sure of the exact way to put it, but you’ve covered my point exactly. Nobody wants their child (or pet) to suffer, so they change the world, not their child; well, at least they should.

            Most people daydream what their future will be like; their future spouse, future child. You don’t think that your kid will be different from your imagination. You raised them to be like you, after all. You don’t really account for how different this person you created can be from you. You don’t think they’ll be born/become disabled, or be born LGBT, or just plain be not you. Some parents tend to put their imaginary child in front of their real child.

            Growing up, I always heard ‘be yourself’ or ‘different is good/special’ a lot as a kid, and now I’m beginning to think we need something to tell some parents. ‘It’s okay that your kid won’t be you’ or something.

          • Cat
            January 15, 2018 at 12:11 am #

            Can’t believe I’m venturing onto the dreaded vaccine thread, but I was touched by your comment. Several of my friends and family work or have worked with kids with SEN. From what they’ve told me, all of the parents that they come into contact with have some degree of grief for the things that their kids probably won’t have in life, but the parents who have managed to adjust their goals and are dedicated to helping their kids be the happiest, most fulfilled possible versions of themselves are a joy to work alongside. At the other end of the scale, some parents just get stuck at the stage of “I have three post-graduate degrees, how can I possibly have a child who isn’t smart like me?” , and it’s painful/heartbreaking to watch because they either get hung up on a series of weird dietary fixes and natural remedies which they think will be a complete “cure”, or they wind up losing it with the teacher at parents’ evening because if the silly bitch would only get her teaching right, their son will be back in mainstream in a year and can go to university and be a doctor after all.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            January 15, 2018 at 11:38 pm #

            Stupid question, while agreeing at large with your comment: what’s SEN?

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 4:06 am #

            Special Educational Needs.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks
            January 16, 2018 at 2:21 pm #

            Thanks!

          • Cat
            January 15, 2018 at 12:12 am #

            PS Please keep up the Watership Down references – it’s my favourite book!

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 5:31 am #

            “Nobody wants their child (or pet) to suffer, so they change the world, not their child; well, at least they should.”

            See, this is why I find cia’s comments so abhorrent. She does want her child to suffer, presumably because of a need to punish the poor girl for not being the child she had planned for. Then she attempts to rationalise her cruelty by inventing a scenario under which protecting her daughter would be bad, and passes the blame for her daughter’s suffering onto an imaginary nefarious plot by other people. That way cia gets to be nasty, but it’s always someone else’s fault.

            The fact that she cannot keep up the pretence that she is the real victim – she can’t keep herself from expressing her loathing for people she considers to be sub-human – is a dead giveaway that she’s a sociopath.

          • Roadstergal
            January 15, 2018 at 1:56 pm #

            Every so often, I notice another bit of slime that Cia has posted that I missed the first time around.

            “My vet said that there were a lot of parvo cases here, but in the poor area of town. ”

            Only those dirty poors get diseases, eh?

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 2:16 pm #

            yes, only poor dogs get diseases. they should just get jobs.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 8:27 pm #

            Just like only poor people die from VPDs.

          • kilda
            January 15, 2018 at 11:35 pm #

            you know that your classism has gotten toxic when it extends to dogs.

          • Heidi
            January 15, 2018 at 5:55 pm #

            I missed the poor part of town, too. She’s awful.

          • FallsAngel
            January 15, 2018 at 8:26 pm #

            Ditto; ditto.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 5:19 pm #

            I think Cia needs to work for several months, or longer, in a vet practice, to truly understand what vaccine-preventable illnesses look like in animals. I always wanted to be a vet. Then I worked one summer in a veterinary practice. Seeing animals die of vaccine-preventable illnesses, in pain and suffering, not always being properly cared for by their owners, made me think twice about being a vet. Seeing animals being euthanized, because their owner could not afford to treat them, convinced me that I couldn’t be a vet. Seeing a dog die of parvovirus, when there is a perfectly good vaccine out there for it? Heartbreaking. Seeing an owner having to make the decision to put their beloved cat to sleep due to severe heart worm that can’t be treated in cats, but only prevented? Heartbreaking as well. After that summer, I went into dietetics.

        • Claire Secrist
          January 15, 2018 at 5:18 pm #

          I wish I reminded someone of a rabbit owner. Rabbit people are the best.

          • StephanieJR
            January 15, 2018 at 7:56 pm #

            Mostly because we’ve been brainwashed into serving the bunnies. They are soft and cute and demanding!

        • Helen
          January 16, 2018 at 12:05 pm #

          Vaccines, oddly enough, do not damage millions of people and rob them of all the various things you claim that they do. Vaccines merely inspire the body to do something it does naturally, which is to make antibodies against things. Our bodies make antibodies against so many, many different things, including all sorts of air-borne pollen and proteins shed by the animals and plants around us. And all the various bacteria and viruses we encounter.

          An allergic reaction is an _abnormal_ reaction to something. We all have normal reactions to these things.

          If a vaccine — which is specific to some very dangerous and damaging bacteria and viruses — could cause autism, then autism is first caused by flowering plants and pets in the home, and the very food we eat. Autism comes in with our very first breath, and is triggered in every breath we take until we die. Autism comes with our food and our water. But since this is not true, it cannot be true that vaccines cause autism.

          All vaccines do is encourage our bodies to make antibodies against a disease they haven’t met yet. And the amount of antigen in each vaccine is thousands of times less than what you breathe in when you walk beneath a flowering tree.

          • ciaparker2
            January 16, 2018 at 12:44 pm #

            It IS odd, isn’t it? Allegedly there are many children now who, if they even breathe in a particle of peanut dust, die. Now how could that POSSIBLY be? My daughter and I consume peanut butter all the time with no ill effects. I think they’re lying about having a peanut allergy. And all those wimps who SAY they are allergic to eggs, berries, fish, chocolate, etc., etc., one might almost say that there are SOME attention-seeking liars who claim allergy to every single substance in the world. Come now. It’s never happened to us, so couldn’t possibly have happened to them.
            Autism comes with vaccines, when the vaccine’s antigenic ingredients (and it doesn’t have any other kind), alarm the immune system when they suddenly appear in the blood having somehow snuck past the first-defense system, the natural filters and specialized immune system bodies in the respiratory and alimentary tract, starting in the mouth and nose. They would normally filter out most pathogens and send an early alarm so the rest of the immune system can prepare to receive the threat. But when they’re injected straight into the body, the entire immune system goes into a tizzy, initiating what are usually last-ditch defenses attempting to save a life. Massive amounts of white blood cells are released. Inflammation is always the first response of the immune system to a threat, and so, after a vaccine, many areas become inflamed, including the brain (encephalitis) and the gut (bowel disease). The capillary beds become blocked by the massive numbers of white blood cells, and blood flow is blocked, causing these areas to become oxygen-deprived. And leakage of blood into the brain. Resulting in stroke-like damage to the brain (autism, ADHD, seizure disorders, and learning disorders).
            The immune system is sensitized to any or many of the vaccine ingredients, so that when it sees any of these substances again, or anything resembling them, it goes on the attack, even though it is attacking its own systems, severe injuring or even killing its own host. Resulting in asthma, allergies, diabetes, paralysis, bowel disease, PANDAS, or any one of myriad other autoimmune diseases. With the release of every vaccine, scientists discover many new autoimmune diseases, only developed in reaction to weird ingredients in the new vaccines.
            I urge the sincere reader to read Dr. Richard Moskowitz’ new book Vaccination. It is excellent, and goes into great detail on all these subjects, and also includes descriptions of what happened to many of his own patients as a result of their vaccinations. Horrible consequences, heart-breaking. This is what vaccines often do. Any vaccine you take, you are literally risking your life, health, and mind. A very big risk, not inconsequential as shills like to say. Read it and make up your own mind.

          • Roadstergal
            January 16, 2018 at 12:52 pm #

            “Antigenic ingredients.”

            Sporfle.

            Someone who isn’t blocked ask Cia to briefly say, in her own words, what an antigen is.

          • Helen
            January 16, 2018 at 1:34 pm #

            I think that author pulled all that shit out of his ass and fed it to you. No, that’s not how it goes. Not one whit.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 1:40 pm #

            I don’t know if I’m one of the blocked commenters but here goes…

            What do you think an antigen is, Cia?

            Edited to add: In your own words, please – not a copy-and-paste from somewhere on the internet.

          • StephanieJR
            January 16, 2018 at 2:41 pm #

            Wait, people with allergies are attention seekers now? I thought it was because of the vaccines?

          • ciaparker2
            January 16, 2018 at 3:13 pm #

            Sarcasm goes right over your head, doesn’t it?

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 16, 2018 at 3:36 pm #

            I’m astonished. Virtually every sentence in that comment is a lie. However did you manage that?!

            You’ve said that people should get diseases to strengthen their immune system. I got the diseases, because there wasn’t a vaccine.

            Guess what?

            I have autoimmune disorders, allergies and asthma. Why? Because too ‘strong’ (hyper-reactive) an immune system causes immune-related disorders.

            If you were right, no-one over sixty would have any of those disorders you blame on vaccines – yet we have them in the same proportions, or worse, than younger people.

  9. Amy Tuteur, MD
    January 13, 2018 at 12:12 pm #

    This is the face of vaccine hesitancy: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c23bb99ac890ff521b964674ebcae40957e004babed0586083ff98bdf050e903.jpg

    • Jack Sprat
      January 13, 2018 at 12:31 pm #

      I just read this a few hours ago, horrible.

    • Claire Secrist
      January 13, 2018 at 1:51 pm #

      That child deserved better.

    • Empress of the Iguana People
      January 13, 2018 at 1:51 pm #

      Rabies? oh god, that poor kid.

    • FallsAngel
      January 13, 2018 at 3:07 pm #

      I’ve seen this too, thankfully, not with rabies, but with other vaccines. Parent wants to skip vaccine because child is afraid of shots.

      • The Computer Ate My Nym
        January 13, 2018 at 4:55 pm #

        My step mother saw it with tetanus. Don’t know if the kid lived or died. Actually, I think it was outright vaccine refusal, not hesitancy because of fear of shots but the kid paid the price.

    • ciaparker2
      January 13, 2018 at 3:27 pm #

      Now you should also put up the photos of the thousands of babies killed by vaccines.

      • Jack Sprat
        January 13, 2018 at 3:48 pm #

        The BS asymmetry:
        “The amount of energy required to refute BS is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it.”

        • Tigger_the_Wing
          January 13, 2018 at 5:57 pm #

          We need a handy river to re-route, but I have a feeling that there isn’t one large enough on the whole planet.

      • Claire Secrist
        January 13, 2018 at 4:27 pm #

        Stop it, you fucking ghoul. This child will die in agony because he didn’t get a round of vaccines.

      • Claire Secrist
        January 13, 2018 at 4:29 pm #

        The fact that you can look at that child’s face and keep up your bullshit, just reinforces that you truly are a psychopath and a pathological narcissist.

      • Claire Secrist
        January 13, 2018 at 4:31 pm #

        Please come explain why this kid’s death is acceptable to you because he’s not an Alaskan trapper.

        • Roadstergal
          January 13, 2018 at 4:50 pm #

          Original antigenic sin, of course. That’s when you make antibodies to an apple.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 13, 2018 at 4:59 pm #

            Only if you’re Christian; for Jews, it’s making antibodies to figs.

      • namaste
        January 13, 2018 at 5:02 pm #

        Oh for christ’s sake, you’re the one who made the claim. If you’re such a fucking expert, YOU find them and put them up. A lazy response such as nwmt or “It’s tuteurs job to provide balance” shall be taken to mean “I can’t, because they are non-existant and I don’t know my ass from a hole in the ground.” Happy hunting!

      • MaineJen
        January 13, 2018 at 6:19 pm #

        You first, cia.

        • Tigger_the_Wing
          January 13, 2018 at 6:31 pm #

          She won’t, of course; because she’d be hard-pressed to find even one.

          • Acleron
            January 14, 2018 at 2:13 am #

            But, but, there are all her relatives, all her friends, all her neighbours and just about everybody she’s met who have suffered from vaccination. Are you saying these aren’t real?

      • MaineJen
        January 13, 2018 at 6:45 pm #

        And also, fuck off. Seriously. If you can look at the photo of that child and still insist “But the vaccines!!!1!” you really are too gone for help. You have MS, your daughter has the NRXN-1 gene deletion, none of it is the fault of vaccines, you are a loon, the end. I’ve had it up to here with this shit.

        • Who?
          January 13, 2018 at 6:48 pm #

          I know, right-she’s so sad and sorry about her daughter, so sad and sorry for herself, but faced with someone who has had exactly what she would ‘recommend’ (her word) she has nothing. Not a word of sympathy or compassion.

          • Box of Salt
            January 13, 2018 at 7:56 pm #

            Who?
            The amount of cognitive dissonance and guilt that ciaparker must deal with on a daily basis must be overwhelming. If her misleading words weren’t so dangerous to others who might take her seriously, I’d feel really sorry for her.

          • Who?
            January 13, 2018 at 8:22 pm #

            I feel the same way. Her head cannot be a happy or comfortable space. And one can only imagine the life she is giving her daughter.

            But lots of people deal with what she does, and much, much more, without spreading dangerous lies with an air of authority and confidence.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 9:21 am #

            Given her sudden rampage of shouting about vile murderers and blocking people, I’ve genuinely wondered if she’s in the midst of some mental health crisis that she’s refusing to medicate.

        • namaste
          January 13, 2018 at 6:49 pm #

          She clearly lives in the realm of “Alternative facts.”

      • The Vitaphone Queen
        January 14, 2018 at 6:21 am #

        This child contracted RABIES. RABIES!!! How dare you.

        • ciaparker2
          January 14, 2018 at 10:21 am #

          How dare YOU? One fact does not cancel out the other. Many people, both children and adults, have died in great pain from contagious disease. Many people, both children and adults, have been maimed for life and even killed by vaccines. Both are true. You want to use the first as a weapon and deny the second, because pharma $$$ is the most important factor in your calculations. Every person, every parent, must carefully research both sides for every individual vaccine and vaccine-preventable disease before making a decision on way or the other. Do you now promote giving every human being in the world the rabies vaccine once a year in order to try to prevent anyone’s ever dying of rabies again? Without ever counting the number maimed or killed by the vaccine itself? Or by the cumulative effect of the huge number routinely given both to children and adults if they are willing to accept them (or even if they aren’t, if pharma coercives are strong enough)?

          • momofone
            January 14, 2018 at 10:34 am #

            It must be exhausting, Cia, to maintain such a level of willful ignorance.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 11:04 am #

            What must be exhausting is keeping up a happy face, concentrating on all those pharma dollars, while tossing babies into the furnace.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 11:15 am #

            What ‘pharma dollars’? How on Earth can you keep a straight face whilst accusing everyone who disagrees with you (at least 95% of the human race) of being paid by one industry and of ‘tossing babies into the furnace’? Listen to yourself. That comment is totally unhinged. What furnace? Whose babies?

            I bet you believed in the child sex ring being operated in the basement of a building which doesn’t have a basement.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 7:04 pm #

            I could definitely use some shillbucks. I’m tired of living with my parents because I don’t make a living wage.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 7:32 pm #

            I’m so sorry. It’s really tough at the moment to get a job almost everywhere. No employer wants to pay more than the absolute minimum they can get away with, whilst their cronies in the home-letting business are equally greedy, asking rents that take almost all the meagre income people can get.

          • The Vitaphone Queen
            January 14, 2018 at 11:18 am #

            Who is tossing BABIES into a FURNACE?!

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 1:10 pm #

            Flagged and downvoted.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 14, 2018 at 10:34 am #

            As Cia spins madly out of control (and she can’t see this), can we just ignore her and perhaps she may move along? A long shot I know, however I don’t know if this has been tried.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 11:06 am #

            I can understand how you feel, but I feel that it is important to show other people how unhinged people like her actually are, so they don’t fall for her lies. Every time I feel like giving up, I remember that there are new parents, and parents-to-be, out there who have heard the lies and are understandably nervous. By consistently pointing out the fallacies, the lying, the paranoia, the immorality and the total lack of evidence of the pro-disease child haters cult, whilst presenting easily-understood and supported evidence in favour of vaccines (which are probably the greatest single healthcare discovery so far), we are preventing a great deal of suffering and saving lives.

          • Jack Sprat
            January 14, 2018 at 12:08 pm #

            I would hope that the nature of AT’s article when combined with her previous tripe, any sensible reader would have already established, for themselves, what a moronic loon Cia is. If you were to have a quick poke about the weeb, you will find more posts and blogs about her (psychological ailments) than by her.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 3:58 pm #

            Thank you for that information. I had no idea that she was so widely known; unlike her, I don’t go poking about trying to find dirt on other commenters, I just respond to the comment in front of me. I apologise if I trod on any toes. Well, I apologise anyway – sorry for making an unwarranted assumption.

          • The Vitaphone Queen
            January 14, 2018 at 11:14 am #

            A long SHOT! *cymbal crash*

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 7:01 pm #

            See my earlier comments regarding what’s-his-name and itchy scabs.

          • The Vitaphone Queen
            January 14, 2018 at 11:11 am #

            SHUT. UP.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:16 pm #

            That’s right. Try as hard as you can to silence those speaking for the vaccine-devastated, speaking to warn parents that the life they save may be their child’s.

          • The Vitaphone Queen
            January 14, 2018 at 1:20 pm #

            And YOU’RE trying to silence those speaking for this poor little RABIES-devastated boy.

          • Roadstergal
            January 14, 2018 at 2:04 pm #

            Au contraire – the more Cia Parker talks, the more obvious it is that she’s the epitome of D-K rank ignorance.

          • Who?
            January 14, 2018 at 5:02 pm #

            Oh yes, look how silenced you are-on a public forum, for free, ranting and raving like a lunatic, comparing vaccinating a child to shooting it on a dark night, and blocking people you don’t agree with.

            And not a word from the moderator about your wild accusations of child murder etc. Which is fine by me: the more spittle stained your ravings, the safer are the children of parents who think they might consider your ‘recommendations’.

          • Tigger_the_Wing
            January 14, 2018 at 11:11 am #

            Your questions show how wrong you are about how the whole vaccine thing works. If pharmaceutical companies all over the world were all in a conspiracy with one another instead of actually being in competition, I have little doubt that they would be pushing vaccines on everyone for diseases they are unlikely to encounter. But they don’t, do they? There are good reasons why every human being isn’t vaccinated against rabies, not the least of which is that many of us live in countries where rabies is already extinct.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 11:16 am #

            Many children and adults have died in great pain due to vaccine-preventable diseases, if they did not receive the vaccine, or if they contracted the disease before vaccines were available. That part is true.

            However, the number of people actually injured by vaccines is tiny in comparison. Yes, some people do have negative reactions to vaccines. No, vaccines do not cause autism, MS, or any of the other diseases you have mentioned. There are rare cases of true vaccine reactions, however, that are more serious than just a sore arm or a bit of a fever. See https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-vaccines-are-dangerous/ for a nice summary of the evidence that doesn’t require knowledge of how to critically analyze the scientific literature.

          • Acleron
            January 14, 2018 at 12:03 pm #

            Scientific American is just another pharmaceutical journal except, of course, when a Brazilian editor sneaked in a prohomeopathy article, then it was a purveyor of Da Trooth.

          • ciaparker2
            January 14, 2018 at 1:15 pm #

            More pharma industry sources? No, thank you. Read Dr. Richard Moskowitz’ Vaccination for a stunning overview of how often vaccines maim and kill in today’s world. Hot off the press.

          • Caylynn, RD, MPH
            January 14, 2018 at 1:20 pm #

            It must be very strange to live in your world, where you believe everyone is out to get you. You do realize the only health care professionals who says vaccines are harmful are those who make money by selling books, supplements, videos, and other merchandise to people like you? The rest of the scientific community is not part of some great, evil conspiracy. The fact that you believe so is astounding! Vaccines have saved far more lives than they have harmed.

          • Nick Sanders
            January 14, 2018 at 7:00 pm #

            No, she doesn’t realize that, and she prevents herself from realizing that, because it would interfere with what she wants to believe.

          • Azuran
            January 14, 2018 at 1:24 pm #

            But he’s also a Doctor, so he was educated by Pharma. Why then should we trust him? So was Andrew WAkefield BTW, What’s to say that the whole ‘vaccine cause autism’ thing isn’t a conspiracy by big pharma to sell more expensive vaccines and detox cures?

          • Mike Stevens
            January 14, 2018 at 7:25 pm #

            …More sources from self-serving quacks who have written a book to sell entirely for personal profit and who will say anything to boost sales?
            No thank you.

          • FallsAngel
            January 14, 2018 at 1:13 pm #

            F and D.

      • shay simmons
        January 14, 2018 at 4:08 pm #

        Try finding any.

      • Mike Stevens
        January 14, 2018 at 7:28 pm #

        It would take quite a long time to track down even a couple of dozen confirmed instances, Cia.
        Yet, in the 24 hours that have elapsed since you blocked me, 280 kids have died from measles, just one single vaccine-preventable disease.

    • Tigger_the_Wing
      January 13, 2018 at 6:33 pm #

      That poor lamb. Look at what he’s going through now. How is that easier for him than getting the vaccine that could have saved his life?

    • The Vitaphone Queen
      January 14, 2018 at 6:19 am #

      He’s so sweet!!! ❤️

    • Nick Sanders
      January 15, 2018 at 7:31 pm #

      For those of you who haven’t heard yet, this poor boy has since died.

      https://nypost.com/2018/01/15/6-year-old-boy-dies-of-rabies-after-touching-bat/

      • FallsAngel
        January 15, 2018 at 7:52 pm #

        How sad!

      • Mishimoo
        January 15, 2018 at 7:59 pm #

        I have no decent words. It was preventable, it was a ridiculous mistake to make (putting a sick bat in a bucket and expecting a child to leave it alone), and my heart breaks for both Ryker and his family. The ‘if onlys’ are going to haunt them for the rest of their lives.

        • Claire Secrist
          January 15, 2018 at 8:25 pm #

          That’s very kind hearted of you, but I find it hard to not be very pissed with his parents. They were given medical advice to get the shots, and they failed him, and he’s dead. I’ve had to make very grueling medical decisions for my kid, and she’s hated them, but she’ll live to tell the tale. They knowingly gambled with his life.

          • Mishimoo
            January 15, 2018 at 8:51 pm #

            Oh, I’m furious with them, I just can’t phrase it more strongly than I did without a lot of swearing. I am agog at the sheer thoughtlessness of their actions, but I also feel very sorry for Ryker and any surviving siblings.

  10. MaineJen
    January 10, 2018 at 4:21 pm #

    Did anyone else listen to the podcast S-Town?

    I feel like we may be dealing with someone who has inadvertently poisoned themselves, and is suffering the consequent delusions.

  11. The Vitaphone Queen
    January 10, 2018 at 1:42 pm #

    Anyone besides me got major lulz out of Cia’s “GO, IMMUNE SYSTEM” speech in all caps?

    • MaineJen
      January 10, 2018 at 1:46 pm #

      I get lulz every time cia opens her mouth

    • Heidi
      January 10, 2018 at 1:55 pm #

      I was singing it to the tune of “Go, Gadget, go.” Inspector Gadget was my favorite cartoon from 7 to 10.

    • Mike Stevens
      January 11, 2018 at 11:55 am #

      She’d really like to have written it in bold, but she can’t html.

  12. Mike Stevens
    January 10, 2018 at 8:49 am #

    At this point, is anyone else wishing that Cia would take a dose of her chelation therapy for her “mercury poisoning”?

    • Roadstergal
      January 10, 2018 at 10:50 am #

      But she said yesterday that mercury-poisoned people don’t get cancer!

      • Heidi
        January 10, 2018 at 12:39 pm #

        Well, I guess I’m off to eat my weight in swordfish and tuna!

        • Mike Stevens
          January 11, 2018 at 11:58 am #

          No need to eat your own body weight.
          Cia was “poisoned” by 225mcg ethylmercury in vaccines.
          You can get the same toxic effect from a mere 3 portions of blue fin tuna.

          • Heidi
            January 11, 2018 at 12:19 pm #

            Between my yearly flu vaccine and getting sushi 3 or 4 times a year, I guess I could smoke a pack a day, visit the tanning bed and no worries if the US gets nuked, I won’t get c