Watch a mother nearly kill a baby at home waterbirth

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Waterbirth is both unnatural and potentially deadly.

You can easily see why in this video where a baby remains underwater for nearly FOUR MINUTES and easily could have inhaled the water in the birth pool.

I have no idea why this baby was allowed to remain submerged for so long.

[youtube https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=O3ysogVwU7g]

 

It is ironic that waterbirth is promoted as part of natural childbirth when it is anything but natural. There are no primates who give birth in water. With the possible (and possibly apocryphal) historical exception of one tribe of Indians on the California coast, there are no human societies that give birth in water.

Babies evolved to breathe immediately upon birth. As anyone who has delivered a substantial number of babies can tell you, they can gasp, snort and cry before their bodies are born.

Babies practice breathing in utero. The claim that babies won’t breathe until they feel air on their faces is flat out false.

Indeed, the American Academy of Pediatrics’ Committee on Fetus and Newborn in conjunction with the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists notes:

Although it has been claimed that neonates delivered into the water do not breathe, gasp, or swallow water because of the protective “diving reflex,” studies in experimental animals and a vast body of literature from meconium aspiration syndrome demonstrate that, in compromised fetuses and neonates, the diving reflex is overridden, whichleads potentially to gasping and aspiration of the surrounding fluid.

The water poses three specific threats to babies: inhalation of water interfere with oxygen exchange in the lungs; it increases the risk of lung infection from the bacteria in the birth pool water; and the baby can suffer life threatening hyponatremia (dilution of electrolytes) from ingesting the hypotonic water of the birth pool.

And AAP/ACOG report concludes:

…[T]he practice of immersion in the second stage of labor (underwater delivery) should be considered an experimental procedure that only should be performed within the context of an appropriately designed clinical trial with informed consent. Facilities that plan to offer immersion in the first stage of labor need to establish rigorous protocols for candidate selection, maintenance and cleaning of tubs and immersion pools, infection control procedures, monitoring of mothers and fetuses at appropriate intervals while immersed, and immediately and safely moving women out of the tubs if maternal or fetal concerns develop.

According to the text accompanying the video, the birth pool was barely filled in time, suggesting that there was no time to heat the water, a risk factor for neonatal compromise, further aggravated by delaying wrapping the baby after it was finally removed from the birth pool.

Fortunately, this baby did breathe eventually. We have no idea whether the baby suffered complications like infection or hyponatermia.

The parents posted the video to boast about what they had done. They shouldn’t be proud; they should be ashamed for risking the baby’s life in this way.

I find it excruciating to watch this video and I suspect nearly all obstetricians, pediatricians and neonatologists would agree.

Childbirth isn’t maternal performance art. There are enough inherent risks to a baby during childbirth. Why would any mother willingly add more?

  • Eater of Worlds

    Is there a mirror anywhere? The video has been removed. Is there a link to the original page it was on?

  • niteseer

    I’d love to know where the video was originally found; if it was on a blog or something, I’ll bet reading the comments would be interesting. I just really, really, have a burning curiosity to know what the parents are thinking and saying NOW.

  • Francesca Violi

    Besides these dangerous and crazy stunts, in general I don’t really get the point of waterbirth, baby-wise. Gentle transition? Perhaps they forget that from the calm floating of uterine life and the “traumatic” exiting in the outside world you get squeezed for hours and then shoved and pushed down a narrow meaty tunnel in which you barely fit in:
    the instant you eventually get out, I really can’t think of it as traumatic, rather as a blissful relief! Being born vaginally is a long and tough process, I don’t see how being in the water for a few seconds after that might change anything…

    • Roadstergal

      Wouldn’t the ‘gentlest transition’ for a baby be a prelabor C/S? (Just trying to go to the natural conclusion of their logic.)

      • Kesiana

        I definitely think so!!

        Don’t ask me for citations, because I have no idea where I read this, but I vaguely recall a study showing that C-section babies are less stressed than those who were vaginally birthed. I think this was based on how they had fewer bouts of random crying during their first week or thereabouts?

        Of course, either way, the transition afterward SUCKS. Before birth: you’re never hungry or cold, and stimulation is limited.

        Post-birth: none of the above.

    • sdsures

      Not like the baby’s going to remember it and thank mum for the “gentle transition”.

  • The Computer Ate My Nym

    Maybe I’m completely misremembering this, but isn’t the diving reflex something primarily triggered by cold water? So a properly heated birthing pool would not trigger it?

    • Irène Delse

      You’re remembering correctly.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        But to be fair, according to what others have said, this pool was just filled, so it might not have been all that warm. Silver lining, and all that…

        • sdsures

          Mumsie would be so uncomfortable in cold water!

  • Megan

    OT: Back in the hospital for little lady who’s been readmitted for jaundice despite my formula supplementation from the beginning. Getting double bili lights. Bili level was 20 tonight. She seems to love nursing and I like it so far too so I don’t know whether to keep doing it or not. I worry she’s expending what energy she has to do it and then doesn’t drink supplement well enough. I’m just so upset we’ve had to go down this road again. Hope she can go home in the morning…

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      I’m sorry your little lady has to go back in the hospital! She was early, wasn’t she? Newborns, especially early (even if not officially “premature”) babies can have high bili no matter what so don’t blame yourself. You’re not feeding her wrong, she probably just has an underdeveloped liver that’s having problems coping. I hope this set of bili lights works for good and she can go home with you to stay!

      • Megan

        Yes, she was early. 37 weeks. I think that’s a big part of this too. She hasn’t eaten real well overnight so they’re bringing me a pump just for my own comfort. I really hope it doesn’t become a habit after the pumping experience I had last time. Thankfully her Bili is down to 16 this morning.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          Excellent differential on the bili! How low does it need to be before she can be discharged?

          • Megan

            I don’t think there’s a specific number. Problem now is getting her to eat. She’s very sleepy. That will probably be the limiting factor for going home. I’m hoping by the end of the day…

          • Amy M

            I had that problem with my 36 weekers. We would undress them, every 3 hours and try to keep them roused long enough to eat. In the hospital, I was trying to nurse them, but no milk at that point, so formula via SNS. Once we got home, we switched to bottles, which I think was easier for them to manage. Or maybe they were just 3 days older and more inclined to wake up. I don’t know, but I can empathize. Good luck, glad to hear her bili went down.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            I’ll cross my fingers and press my thumbs for you and the little one! Hope she’s already feeling better!

        • MI Dawn

          Both my kids had jaundice like crazy (20 or more) and nursed like troopers. My milk always came in early, but I pushed water after each feeding (which they hated) just to get them to pee more. They were 37 and 36 weeks, respectively. Don’t let the jaundice drive you nuts, it’s actually pretty common with them.

          When you get home, weather permitting, strip them down and put them in the sunshine for a little bit every hour or so (in front of a window if cold). That really helped my kids after I got them home.

          We still call my eldest “punkin” because she was born in October and was just about orange when she came home!

        • swbarnes2

          Mine was a bit earlier than that, and I’ll tell you what I wish someone had told me back then

          To clear the jaundice, your kid needs food, blue lights and TIME. You are doing everything right, everything will be okay, now that you and the hospital and TIME are working together. And remember, if this rehospitalization is the worst medical intervention that your kid gets in the next year, you are doing GREAT.

    • Who?

      Sorry to hear that. Sounds like she might have not read the instruction book, which is a baby thing in my very limited experience. Lucky for her she has a mother who knows how to ask questions and is ready to take advice and get help when needed.

      I hope in the next day or two the treatment will do the trick and all this will fade into memory.

    • yentavegan

      Oy! This must feel scary. Hooray for medical advancements and kudos to you for recognizing that she needed science/technology.

    • demodocus

      *hugs*

    • Amazed

      Good luck, Megan, to you and your little lady. Sorry to hear that there are troubles.

    • momofone

      I hope her bili level is down and you’re back home quickly.

    • moto_librarian

      I hope she gets to come home soon! You’re doing everything right – hang in there!

    • Montserrat Blanco

      I hope she gets well soon.

    • Mishimoo

      Hope she’s better and back home soon!

    • sdsures

      *huggles* Hopefully the bili lights will spruce her right up and she can go home soon. For feeding do whatever you feel you can manage, BF or FF, without stressing too much about it. All that matters are that she gets fed, and you don’t exhaust yourself over it. Having a sick kid is stressful enough on its own, so please look after yourself.

  • Sue

    “We have no idea whether the baby suffered complications like infection or hyponatermia”

    Not to mention hypoxia.

    How many of these babies will have their development subtly affected by these early moments?

  • Froggggggg

    It’s a horrible thought, but sometimes I can’t help but wonder if some of these parents have a subconscious desire to kill or at least harm their babies.

  • Kq

    I see the video has been removed. Not sorry to have missed it.

    • Mishimoo

      Same here. The title was bad enough.

  • Madtowngirl

    I couldn’t watch this, even if it was still up for viewing. I wanted a water birth back when I was entrenched in the woo. Thank goodness the hospital I delivered in doesn’t do them…because, as they said, “the science doesn’t show it’s safe.”

  • BeatriceC

    OT question, but I trust the opinion of people here:

    Background: 16yo male, history of mild asthma. Received all scheduled vaccines (though some delayed by pediatrician in year one, caught up by 18mo). Received pertussis vaccine in summer of 2012. Actually caught pertussis late spring of 2014. Received pertussis vaccine again in summer of 2015. Has had a mild cough for two weeks that suddenly took a turn for the worse today. He’s having coughing fits he’s having trouble controlling, but no “whoop” at the end. Some vomiting after coughing fits, and ribs very painful. He has some bone tumors on his ribs that could press into his lungs with enough force, though he says it doesn’t feel like that’s happening. Saw doctor today who just told him to keep using his inhaler.

    I have a much more medically fragile child in the home, plus a 62 year old man (in relatively good health) in the home. I kind of want to push to have him tested for pertussis again. Am I overreacting?

    • guest

      Not a doctor, but a teacher and it seems like *everyone* has a wicked persistent cough right now. I had it too and questioned whether I might have pertussis. Saw a doc, and I don’t – I was also told to keep using my inhaler. It did go away, but it took over a month.

    • Charybdis

      Nope, not at all, especially since it has turned fairly bad fairly quickly. It’s better to be safe, especially since you have medically fragile people in the immediate vicinity. It *might* be something like bronchitis, which can suck on ice. I had a really, really bad bout a couple of years ago and although I have never coughed until I vomited, I would cough until I passed out. Which was extremely disconcerting, I must admit. My bronchitis cough is dry and hacking and associated with trying to breathe as opposed to having phlegm flapping around my lungs that needs to be cleared out. Is his cough dry or productive?

      DH has had to use a wide elastic band around his ribs to help support them when he coughs (he had the flu last week and it has degenerated into a bad cough).

      If you get the test done, then you will know for sure what it is (or isn’t, as the case may be). And I would think that some of the strong codeine cough syrup or tessalon pearls would help control the coughing better than just the inhaler. Some pushback seems necessary.

    • Who?

      Will the outcome of the testing change what you’re doing re the rest of the household? Unless that’s a big yes ie moving people to different lodgings, I’d be inclined to just do whatever barrier protection/hand washing would otherwise be indicated. Which probably isn’t a bad idea anyway in case it does happen to be something (else) contagious.

      • BeatriceC

        The SOP for pertussis is to start the entire household on antibiotics, not just the infected person. So in that regard, yes, there would be a difference in how things were done if a test were to be positive.

        • Who?

          Yes that does change things. Might be worth pushing it esp re the others getting it as well.

          • BeatriceC

            I think I’ll call the insurance company nurse advise line tonight, since it’s late enough that my only choice is an ER (which I don’t think he’s sick enough to need). If they say bring him in, I will. If not, I’ll call the pediatrician first thing in the morning and insist. It’s a quick, relatively inexpensive test and I think I’d rather know for sure than keep wondering. As the hours go by, the cough is getting worse and worse, and the coughing fits are starting to sound an awful lot like they did when he had pertussis in 2014.

          • Who?

            Sounds like a plan. Hope your night is not too long and difficult and he is okay.

    • Sue

      HI, Beatrice. As an ED specialist, I’d suggest trying to get a firm diagnosis, since it is relatively easy to exclude pertussis. This will tell you (or reassure you) about the likely cause and infectiveness to others.

      Assuming it is NOT pertussis, you then have to distinguish the prolonged cough as asthma vs other causes, such as post-nasal drip or even reflux.

      Prolonged coughing is very common and not always easy to diagnose, but excluding whooping cough can be useful in your case.

      The futher differential diagnosis depends on the story (onset, provoking factors, associated symptoms), examination (fever, lung sounds etc) and testing (peek flow before and after inhaler, perhaps chest XRay).

      Hope this helps – very frustrating!

      • BeatriceC

        Thank you. This particular cough just has a particular sound to it that makes me a bit more paranoid than just the rum of the mill cold or even something like bronchitis. Given his history of getting pertussis in spite of being vaccinated plus his four day stay in a place where his risk of contracting something nasty was high, I’m a bit more worried than I normally would be. I talked to the nurse line. If he starts going pale or blue during coughing fits I’m to bring him in right away. If not, I’m just going to insist on the test just to rule it out in the morning. It’s worth the money, time and effort to rule it out.

        • fiftyfifty1

          A study just came out about duration of immunity in teens getting a TDaP booster. For teens who had never received the older whole-cell vaccine series as a child (and that’s basically all American-born teens now) the immunity to the booster did not last long at all. 3 years later most of it was gone–even 1 year later much of it was gone. So your son being susceptible to pertussis 3 years later is not a sign of anything wrong with his immune system, it’s actually normal. The acellular vaccine just is not great. The old whole-cell was a tougher vaccine (more pain, swelling, fevers etc) but it worked better. Now the immunity after an actual case of pertussis is thought to last longer, but even this immunity wanes. So getting tested is a good idea. I hope he feels better soon.

      • Who?

        My daughter had a terrible cough as a child, caused by a combination of reflux, post nasal drip, ‘loose’ somethings in her throat, and sensitive cough receptors. A combination of antihistamines, and something to help with the reflux when her hayfever was bad, replaced the asthma meds she had been on, which had been a very big sledgehammer for what turned out to be a series of fairly small nuts.

        Thank goodness for the very clever respiratory physician.

    • moto_librarian

      I’m currently recovering from the flu. I was vaccinated last October, and it did seem to limit the severity a bit but I am a severe asthmatic. I had a chest x-ray tor rule out pneumonia. I know that I will cough for at least another week, and I continue to do nebulizer treatments several times a day. Has your son’s doctor recommended a nebulizer in place of the rescue inhaler? I find it to be far more effective for me.

      I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have him tested for pertussis again. If he spikes a temperature or starts having a lot of sputum, he could have secondary infection. I hope he recovers quickly. It’s miserable.

    • Eater of Worlds

      If it’s not pertussis (like the person below said, it’s easy to rule out) I agree with those who say get x-rays. I have asthma and every cold I get makes my asthma so bad. I use a nebulizer which helps, but I also get bronchitis after each cold. I have a couple different steroid inhalers to use when I am sick. That may be an option for him. Definitely get him into an asthma/allergy specialist to get this under control.

      Reasons why colds make asthma worse: http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/10October/Pages/Study-finds-clue-to-why-colds-trigger-asthma.aspx

  • mythsayer

    Anyone notice the video is gone???

    • momofone

      I just noticed that too.

    • Amy Tuteur, MD

      I guess they’re not so proud of what they did, after all.

    • BeatriceC

      A part of me wonders if they took it down because of general shock and outrage over how bad that baby really looked, but the more cynical part of me thinks it was taken down because the baby developed problems related to being deprived of oxygen for so long.

      • mythsayer

        I suspect it was taken down because Dr. Amy is MEAN!!!!!

        And how DARE she discuss their “private” video (that they put up on youtube for anyone to see)!

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    Way OT: Before March Madness starts, be sure to check out the results for Dr Seuss Madness! The tournament is done, and the champion has been announced!

    http://www.chem.purdue.edu/wenthold/bge/drseuss.htm

    I love how the kids preferred a variety, and selected some books that you might not expect!

    • fiftyfifty1

      That middle aged dude dressed up as the Cat in the Hat is scary like a clown.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        What do you mean “dressed up as”?

        Oh, and The Cat in the Hat is ageless.

        • fiftyfifty1

          Q.E.D.

  • niteseer

    I spent 15 years as a neonatal nurse. I’ve attended about 2,000 deliveries, and resuscitated a good many babies. What I saw in watching this film: a baby delivered up to the hips, who was alert and moving vigorously for the first couple of minutes, then slowly becomes weaker. The muscle tone gets worse, the lips, which were pressed together firmly to start with, begin to open, the eyes, which were alert, become more wide, “staring”. A staring baby is not in a normal level of consciousness. A staring baby is an unconscious baby. The color getting more and more purple; actually, no, more and more blue…..”purple” is a color that has a mixture of pink and blue, signaling that the baby is still circulating blood that is partially oxygenated. Blue is the absence of any oxygenated blood. A blue, floppy, staring baby is a dying baby. I was having a f–king panic attack, watching this baby being held underwater and slowly losing consciousness. It was so damned cruel; they were holding him underwater! For all intents and purposes, these parents water boarded their baby.

    Then, when they do pick him up out of the water, they smile and coo and pet him……as he lies limp and blue on her chest. They caught a HUGE break…….this baby started breathing on his own, which is lucky, because he was right on the edge of being beyond able to make normal breathing efforts on his own. I suspect that when she changed his position, face down with her hand under his chest, that it actually served the purpose of accidentally compressing and releasing his chest a few times, giving him his first effective breath. It is at this moment that he gasps and begins crying.

    I cannot tell you how upset I am after seeing this. For those of you who have watched this clip…….you have now seen a baby closer to death than you probably ever will again in your life.

    • demodocus

      that is grimly educational.

    • lilin

      I couldn’t watch, and this is horrible even to read. Basically, a totally innocent human being’s first experience of the world was being drowned.

    • Daleth

      Oh god. That’s horrifying. That poor baby!

  • Amy

    I’m surprised there haven’t been more trolls chewing you out for sharing something “private.” You know, so private it’s posted publicly elsewhere on the internet.

    • niteseer

      the video has been removed. Anyone surprised? Anyone…?

  • BeatriceC

    I can’t watch it. Too many of my babies died. Even nearly two decades later, people being that callous with the lives of defenseless newborns is just too much for me to handle.

    • Kq

      Amen to THAT.

      Sorry for your losses. Losing one is one too many. I know.

    • Christy

      Yes, exactly.

  • nata

    into the theme of babies under water… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6bW7hu7MHc here I also was not comfortable for the babies staying under water for so long 🙁 :/ there must be an explanation why they do it
    g … at our hospital we do waterbirth, but we deliver as soon as you can see the anterior shoulder. Also, I don’t understand all that pulling on the head in the original video, we try to touch the babies as little as possible to avoid unnecessary stimulation.

    • Eater of Worlds

      I took a double take. I couldn’t understand why something Lithuanian was being posted here. Then I realized it’s either made without speaking or it’s in English (I’m deaf and Lithuanian).

      • nata

        It’s more or less without speaking. More “artistic” than real life, but it does display some waterbirths where the babies are left to “float” for a while under water before their first breath. I guess some people do think it is magical – still not breathing, still attached but already out. :/

  • PrimaryCareDoc

    OT- can some of you come over here and help me knock some sense into this naturopath who is a mouthpiece for Margulis???

    http://ijpr.org/post/denied-vaginal-birth-after-cesarean

    • Sean Jungian

      Wow, she certainly feels entitled.

    • PeggySue

      She is a DOCTOR?

      • Monkey Professor for a Head

        No, she’s a naturopath.

      • PrimaryCareDoc

        A doctor of naturopathy.

        • critter8875

          N.D.
          Not a doctor

    • BeatriceC

      I must commend you for your self control in the comments. I’d have resorted to foul language within the first few comments. Wish I could help, but my only contribution would be to call her a selfish, entitled, moronic, bitch.

    • Who?

      I don’t think you can knock sense into a vacuum.

      Poor little one.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      Ugh. That poor woman! She said in the comments that she has a debt of over 300K for the “education” she got in naturopathic school. Now she’s stuck trying to pay that debt off and the only way she’ll ever be able to do it is to scam people into using her “natural treatments” forever. No wonder naturopaths are so threatened by effective medication, be in aspirin or viagra or imatinib.

      • PrimaryCareDoc

        I seriously question the decision making skills of anyone who thinks it’s OK to take out $320,000 in loans for a school of naturopathy.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          Not to mention the decision making skills and priorities of someone who, faced with a $300+K student debt, a disabled husband, starting a practice, one young child and another on the way, decides that the thing she most needs to do now is start a lawsuit about how the child will be delivered. Why is that the most important thing to do right now?

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            That is, I agree that her judgement is suspect, but if she came to her senses now, what could she do? She’s got multiple dependents, a huge loan, and no way to make substantial amounts of money except…mistreating people with ineffective and dangerous substances.

        • Who?

          Thank-you for saying that. I had the same thought.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      Hmm…the comments section seems to have gone missing. I suppose it could be a problem with my computer, but I suspect too much “negativity”. Either she or Margulis didn’t like you being right so much, PCD.

  • Commander30

    “Watch a mother nearly kill a baby at home waterbirth”

    No thanks, I’m feeling enough anxiety and horror from just reading about it. Why do people do these things to their children?!

  • Zen

    Sweet mother of God, why is he so PURPLE?! If that were my kid I’d be panicking.

    • Angharad

      That’s approximately the color my daughter was when she was born. Of course, her birth became something of an emergency during pushing, and there was appropriate medical care there. We also let her breathe immediately after birth, and she didn’t stay purple for as long as the baby in the video.

      • nata

        I had one purple baby, but it was in a Nepali hospital. The nurse decided to give me an synto injection BEFORE even the baby’s head was born, somewhen close to crowning… he came minutes later, purple, followed by the gush of blood….

  • Sean Jungian

    I’m not sure now if it was in a previous post this week or a comment, but someone mentioned how close this is to some sort of wacky performance art. Why would you post this publicly? Why does ANY parent post their child’s birth on a public forum? I can almost see making it available for family – almost, although I personally would gag unless it were my own grandchild or the child of an extremely close friend.

    • Roadstergal

      ” I can almost see making it available for family ”

      I can’t. Family birth announcements – name, pictures of chubby-cheeked kid with exhausted and overwhelmed grinning parent(s), something along the lines of “mom and baby doing fine,” and… scene. This seems like porn for the birth junkies.

      • Sean Jungian

        I said “almost” and then I reiterated ALMOST. I’M TRYING TO BE GENEROUS HERE!! 🙂

        • Roadstergal

          LOL! Yes, thinking about it more – given the prevalence of woo, there probably are at least a few families out there that would find this video a critical part of a birth announcement. I guess I’m just happy I’m not part of one.

          • Sean Jungian

            Gawd, no. I would rebel against it.

          • FrequentFlyer

            Some of the extremists would probably want to see the video to judge whether the mom did it “right”.

  • Susan

    This one is the one I can’t handle…. https://youtu.be/CRUypStm2pE

    • Azuran

      Wow, baby’s heart rate is low, prescribe ‘lots of talking’

      • Susan

        Did you see the way they cut away? I am so curious about the missing footage. Also nuts the way they give blow-by to a baby who isn’t breathing. Also, the way they give a few breathes, then stop, and slap the feet. So many examples of how not to resuscitate a baby but in both cases that they got away with it is the only reason the videos are available at all.

        • nata

          they do inflation breaths. No idea why slapping the feet brr 🙁 but they should not have stopped: “Once the chest is inflated and the heart rate has increased or the chest has been seen to move then ventilation should be continued at a rate of 30–40 per minute. Continue ventilatory support until regular breathing is established.”

          Rewatched… how long was that baby even without any attempt to resuscitate?

          • mythsayer

            http://www.homebirth.org.uk/aida.htm

            This is the written story…she has a timeline…

            EDIT TO ADD (from the link)

            4.49pm Cord was visible by head and I was still pushing. I remember Andrya telling me that it is time to give a big push, and I had my hand on the baby’s head, and I was trying to assist it to be born and I realised that it wasn’t coming easily and I knew that Andrya would have to assist soon. Andrya asked me to pull my right leg up ( I was on my knees leaning forward in the pool) and she assisted in baby’s restitution (Maia had cleared her chin but didn’t do a full restitution so Andrya helped clear the shoulders).

            4.52pm baby Maia was born. Her tone wasn’t brilliant (well, non-existent actually) and she wasn’t breathing so after 2 mins (heart rate was there but I was told later on it was only 60bpm) I was asked to get out of pool. Cord was left unclamped and intact.

            4.55pm Rescue breaths were given as Maia wasn’t breathing, she was being stimulated on warm pad and given facial oxygen. All this time, I wasn’t panicking though and I kept saying that she was fine (I must have come across as positively la-la but I honestly believed and still do believe that she was fine)

            5.00pm HR went up to 120 and she was breathing well. Andrya worked out APGAR scores;

            At 1 minute – 1 (heart rate)
            0 (respiratory effort)
            0 (reflex to stimuli)
            0 (muscle tone)
            1 (colour)
            Total : 2

            At 5 minutes – Total 7

            At 10 mins – Total 10

            So baby Maia was without oxygen for AT LEAST 3 minutes, although apparently the cord was pulsing (I don’t have medical training…does the baby get enough oxygen after being pushed out fully via a pulsing cord even if baby isn’t breathing?)

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            The baby can only get oxygen from the cord if it’s attached to something that oxygenates the blood in it, i.e. the mother. If the placenta is delivered then no, the pulsing cord is doing nothing except providing false reassurance.

          • mythsayer

            I figured that it was useless if the placenta were delivered. But you answered my question as to before. It makes sense since baby was getting oxygen that way the whole pregnancy.

            But still…I wouldn’t use a non-:delivered placenta and pulsating cord to excuse a baby that isn’t breathing. At some point the cord. Isn’t going to help anymore.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            The problem is, just because the placenta isn’t delivered, that doesn’t mean it’s still attached or completely attached. It could be essentially sitting in the uterus or maybe a small section attached. In any case, a born baby’s circulation changes and its brain activity starts to increase and it needs air.

        • Margo

          I have never seen anyone ever before slap a baby on the feet like that, sure drying and stimulating post birth but slapping feet, interesting. Also they did make the point several times that cord was still pulsating so I guess they were reassured by that….however, I found by the end of that video my shoulders were up round my ears from anxiety. Not really a good example of rescuitation was it

          • Rachele Willoughby

            We were told to slap the feet of my preemie when he forgot to breathe. I’m not sure what it would do for a term baby though. Nothing, I’d guess.

        • Squillo

          Actually, how do we know they got away with it? Baby started breathing eventually, but so do lots of kids who a) near-drown, b) choke, c) seize–and many of them don’t exactly get away with a full complement of functioning brain cells.

      • guest

        That must be what they call the “talking cure.”

    • demodocus

      Just what I’d want, my provider checking me and my child with a flash light in one hand a mirror in the other…
      Also, I’m not cleaning that pool.

    • manabanana

      ^ This is one of the most incompetent resuscitations.
      Why put this on the internet? WHY?

      To demonstrate without a doubt how poorly a midwife will assess and resuscitate your baby?

      I first saw this a couple years ago, but it just gets worse and worse over time. Within 5 seconds of birth it’s clear the kid needs help.

      • Azuran

        Even before the birth it’s obvious the baby’s health is in danger.
        He had cord prolapse. Any medical provider with half a brain would instantly check the baby as soon as it got out.

    • mythsayer

      I think this is the story that goes with it?

      http://www.homebirth.org.uk/aida.htm

      Or maybe it’s another of her babies?

      I’m pretty sure it’s the same Aida, since the link I found is from the UK, as is the video. And this Aida seems to do nothing but have dangerous home births (in the link she says she has a sketchy birth history, including a shoulder dystocia, AND SHE IS STILL HAVING ANOTHER HOMEBIRTH).

      • Francesca Violi

        My God, this is the most scary thing I ever saw… when the midwife puts the baby in the mother’s arms, the poor thing looks so WRONG for being a newborn, so utterly floppy and limp…and still they just keep chatting and clucking for more than a minute before anybody takes any action?

    • carol walker

      OMG! “talking” to the dying baby is going to resuscitate the baby! The baby was dying you idiots! Holding oxygen to the baby’s mouth without the baby breathing-the skin does not absorb oxygen you twit! No, the placenta is not giving the baby oxygen if the baby is pale and blue!

  • guest

    “I have no idea why this baby was allowed to remain submerged for so long.”

    Oh, I know why. It’s more cinematic that way. This birth was all about getting the money shot – you can tell by how the birth attendant keeps adjusting the camera instead of focusing on getting the baby out.

    I’m not expert on vaginal birth, but that was one of the purplest neonates I’ve ever seen, and its cry sounded very weak to me.

    • Trixie

      The rise of waterproof GoPros is going to inspire more and more idiots to do this.

      • guest

        Just wait ’til they shrink the cameras real small and they can stick one up the laboring mother’s hoo-haw to *really* catch the birth while it’s happening.

        I mean, filming childbirth is totally natural, after all.

        • Rachele Willoughby

          Fwiw, I would totally stick a camera up there during labor. In the hospital, of course.

          • Roadstergal

            Oh, yeah, in an appropriately monitored setting, visualization of the process would be hella interesting.

          • When I had a hysteroscopy, I reeeeeeally wondered if you could stick one of those up there during early pregnancy. Probably a higher risk of miscarriage than amnio, though.

          • Rachele Willoughby

            Weekly monitoring that way would be *so cool*. (If not for the extra risk.)

          • Eater of Worlds

            When photos were first taken this way to document the growth from pregnancy on, the woman who was getting the photos ended up miscarrying.

          • guest

            And then post it on YouTube?

            Though at least with the interior videos no one will know it’s you.

          • Rachele Willoughby

            Maybe send it to the Discovery Channel or National Geographic or something. To be used anonymously though, for sure.

    • namaste863

      Makes sense. You’d have to be pretty damn narcissistic to film your kid’s birth and put it on YouTube rather than stashing it with the home movie collection only ever to be played for said offspring’s new Significant Other.

      • demodocus

        Oh, I’m sure i can come up with other ways to embarrass my child/ren without using a camera.

    • Poogles

      ” you can tell by how the birth attendant keeps adjusting the camera instead of focusing on getting the baby out.”

      Actually, there doesn’t seem to have been any birth attendant there – the dad says the midwife arrived after the baby was born, after they got out of the pool and mom and baby were in bed. Which means it was Dad who kept adjusting the camera.

      • guest

        I couldn’t tell who was there, but someone other than the mother seemed to be helping in the water, be it dad or some third person.

    • Margo

      I was anxious re how long the baby was submerged, seemed to take forever for the baby to “come out”, and all that touching of the head was not right either, too much stimulation. I have attended a few Waterbirths in my career, but none of them looked like this one. WaterbIrths are very tricky and people get a bit carried away and lulled into a sense of false security as waterbirth comes under the heading of “natural”….well it’s not natural as has been pointed out.

    • Manabanana

      Just for contrast: look how long it takes a dolphin – a mammal that spends its entire life in water – to send the newborn to the surface for a slurp of air.

      http://youtu.be/AUsOkZLKfz8

      • Azuran

        Notice also how the dolphin who pushed the baby out of the water is also not the mother. Even dolphins don’t birth unassisted.

        • guest

          I bet if this woman had used a dolphin birth attendant it would have gotten that baby out of the water sooner! Never thought I’d endorse dolphin-assisted birth before.

      • demodocus

        Aren’t they mostly tail-first, too?

      • critter8875

        I was thinking about dolphin birth and how the helper immediately pushes it to the surface.

        Watching the birth, all I could think was: “get it to the surface!”

  • Sarah

    What the fucking fuck?

  • Trixie

    This is profoundly disturbing, but pretty much completely in line with the teachings of Igor Charkovsky, the inventor of waterbirth who has inspired Barbara Harper, Odent, Jan Tritten, etc. etc.
    One famous person who drowned his newborn in this exact manner is Young Living Essential Oils founder Gary Young. He was inspired to deliver his baby underwater after reading Charkovsky’s work.

    • Trixie
      • DaisyGrrl

        “In retrospect, I am still happy and thankful that Igor was brought to work with our son. It was a type of energetic leap that made it possible for him to leave his body and die.”

        That wins the prize for the most f-ed up quote I’ve read in a long long looooong time. Some dude with no medical training and an “other way of knowing” kills his kid, and this is his response. Wow.

        • AirPlant

          Monster.

          • Eater of Worlds

            On the plus side, he’s 80 years old. We can hope the old coot drops dead.

        • Glia

          An actual involuntary growling noise literally just came out of me.

        • Amy M

          OMG that guy is a psycho. How is not in jail yet, for abuse?

          • guest

            I couldn’t finish reading it, because it was too much like a description of child abuse, and although I sensed some condemnation in the article, it wasn’t nearly enough. No! You do not for a 5 year old boy begging it to stop to be dunked over and over again. THAT IS WATERBOARDING, WTF? (I feel ever so slightly less disturbed by the infants, who would at least be spared remembering this treatment, but the description of the boy haunts me.)

          • Amy M

            That’s the bit that got me too. I have two 7 yr olds and and someone grabbed them and dunked them, I’d be over there in a heartbeat, fighting to get them away and out of the water. How the parents could just let them do that, and listen to that poor boy screaming….ugh, horrifying.

        • Madtowngirl

          Oh my god….. That’s seriously horrifying.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          WT everloving F? How can parents do that to their children? What are they even trying to accomplish? How many children is this man going to be allowed to kill before he’s stopped?

      • LeighW

        How does someone see that and not kill him with their bare hands? If one of my children was being tortured like that I’d rip the monster apart. My God.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          That’s, to me, one of the more horrific parts of the article: The parents are paying him to do this to their children. I can’t even work out what they hope to accomplish, but apparently he manages to convince them that being nearly drowned will somehow help the children.

    • Trixie
      • Poogles

        Wow…almost 34 years later and we still have the “some babies just weren’t meant to live” BS:

        From a mother who had given birth to her son at home 2 years earlier because a hospital birth would have had her “scared to death”:
        “If that baby had died, he would have died in the love of my arms – not down the hall where I couldn’t see him….and if a baby died that soon after birth, maybe he wasn’t meant to live.”

      • LeighW

        How does someone see that and not kill him with their bare hands? If one of my children was being tortured like that I’d rip the monster apart

    • manabanana

      And Barbara Harper (or one of these self-professed ‘gurus’) says to not start timing for the 1 minute APGAR until the baby emerges from the surface of the water.

      Insanity.

    • prudentplanner

      an hour. He drowned his newborn daughter for a GODAMN HOUR.
      https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19821007&id=HUoaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UScEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3433,1863297&hl=en

      I don’t have the words to describe my feelings….

      [deleted all-caps rage-questions] but seriously: why didn’t the mother (since divorced from him) save the baby?

  • namaste863

    Ive seen some pretty weird crap on this blog. This one left me completely baffled. As in “I don’t have a flipping clue how anyone would ever think this is a good idea” baffled. As in “Air. It’s a universally acknowledged scientific fact that humans need air. How can they possibly not grasp this most basic of concepts?” baffled. I actually could not wrap my head around it. Oh, and for the love of all things good and holy, if there are nut jobs out there who claim that humans don’t need air, I don’t want to know about it! I’d like to retain the tiny sliver of faith in humanity that I have left!

    • AirPlant

      My theory is that woo types seem to reject any sign of the child detaching and becoming less dependant. Keeping them attached to the cord and floating in your poo-cuzzi is just a really dangerous and gross way of keeping the baby a fetus for just a little bit longer.

      • namaste863

        Works for me. Let’s go with that.

      • Roadstergal

        “Poo-cuzzi.” Saving that one.

      • Sean Jungian

        Liked for “poo-cuzzi” lol

    • Roadstergal

      I wonder what CPS would think of immersing a one-day-old baby in water for that duration of time.

    • Poogles

      “Oh, and for the love of all things good and holy, if there are nut jobs out there who claim that humans don’t need air, I don’t want to know about it!”

      Hahaha, I haven’t come across that one yet, however, there are nutjobs out there who claim humans ONLY need air – no food or drink required:
      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Breatharianism

  • mythsayer

    That was…hard to watch. That baby wanted to breathe SO BAD. What I’d like to know is this:

    Everyone knows (I hope everyone knows this, including the crazies) that babies breathe in amniotic fluid. In fact, they HAVE TO breathe in fluid, as that is what develops the lungs.

    So if they breathe amniotic fluid in utero, WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY NOT BREATHE IN WATER WHILE BEING BORN? How does the baby know TO breathe in amniotic fluid but NOT TO breathe in water during labor?

    How do they get over this giant elephant in the room? Do they acknowledge that babies will breathe in water but it won’t matter bc they are getting oxygen from the cord (if so, what happens to the water in the lungs after birth…)? Or do they just think the baby just knows not to breathe in water at all bc of this “diving reflex?”

    • MaineJen

      You are presupposing an elementary level of knowledge of basic biology, anatomy and physiology etc. That isn’t a safe assumption here.

      • mythsayer

        Yeah, it’s scary…

        I’m not a medical professional of any kind, and even I know babies breathe in amniotic fluid. In fact, a senator (think she is a senator…maybe she is a representative…anyway, she’s in one of the houses) just had an experimental procedure done that saved her baby. She had super low amniotic fluid early in the pregnancy, which is a death sentence for babies because they can’t develop their lungs without fluid and they ended up injecting saline into her and the baby survived. Amazing. But it proves that babies constantly breathe in amniotic fluid. Stands to reason they’d breathe in water.

        The level of stupid hurts.

        • Clorinda

          She was a member of the House of Representatives. The baby had something similar to Potter’s Syndrome where the kidneys were malformed or nonexistant. In order to get a better view in a womb without much fluid, they went to a specialist who injected saline solution. An ultrasound was done, a firm diagnosis given. Then a few weeks later, another ultrasound showed that appropriate development in some other area affected by amniotic fluid had occurred so they repeated the saline solution injections until the end of the pregnancy to keep a full environment. It was sufficient for lung development. Then they had to keep the baby on dialysis until it was old enough for a kidney transplant. Don’t know what the status of the baby is now.

          A while before that baby, I ended up with a baby with cysts in both kidneys and I asked about doing something like this, to help him live. Docs said no because it “probably wouldn’t work”. So I was ahead of the curve. I knew exactly how important amniotic fluid breathing is necessary for a baby. He did survive for a few hours after birth but I can’t even imagine what he was feeling not being able to get sufficient oxygen. And he couldn’t because of lack of development.

          To then see people put their babies through some of these things and spouting their version of “science”, and “just not meant to live” or some thing like that to justify is horrifying.

    • Poogles

      “Or do they just think the baby just knows not to breathe in water at all bc of this “diving reflex?””

      That’s pretty much it, from my experience.

  • yentavegan

    i won’t watch this video. I can not stand the stress of blatant stupidity on parade. Look away….or I’ll be turned into a pillar of salt.

    • namaste863

      Einstein said it best when he said “The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.”

  • Bertrande

    “childbirth is not maternal performance art”- well said.

  • Amy M

    I wonder if they think they are “gently transitioning” the baby because they think that being underwater is like being in utero. Like mosquito larvae, born in the water, and gently moving to the surface and taking flight when they mature. But, instead they could have gently drowned that baby. Poor thing was awfully blue. I saw it start thrashing around when its body was being born—no idea if it inhaled. I thought the water birth crew made a big deal out of bringing baby to the surface asap—sometimes snapping cords in the process, even?

  • AirPlant

    Seriously, why is this a thing? I have watched exactly one of these videos and the entire time my body was filling with adrenaline and my brain was screaming that they were killing a baby. I damn near threw up after from the rage and the fear. Who is the idiot that fought through that very normal feeling and decided to hold a baby under for four freaking minutes?

    • Kelly

      Can you ask your doctor? Mine mentioned that she had one that they worked with regularly. I helped out at my friend’s when her mom could not come. I was an idiot and no help but I that was before three kids and this blog. I sometimes wish I could just to give women options.
      Edited: Meant to reply to mostlyclueless.

  • mostlyclueless

    OT question: Do non-woo doulas exist or is that an oxymoron? It would be great to have someone to help me get through the absolute dread I feel at going through labor again but not if she’s going to be an idiot. (I recently met a doula at a party who insisted that you can have boy/girl identical twins.)

    • AirPlant

      Was this nitwit watching Korean dramas? Because that may or may not be the plot line of a rather popular one…

      • demodocus

        Maybe she thought Twelfth Night is a documentary?

      • Zornorph

        Did it involve ‘fan death’?

    • demodocus

      well that’s pretty silly. My brother and I looked almost exactly the same as children, if you look at photos of us at similar ages. (In reality, we’re a decade apart). His eye color is different than mine, but that was about it.

    • nomofear

      They do, but it may take quite a few interviews, and in my area, it seemed to be either woo or religion.

    • guest

      This doesn’t help you, but you actually CAN have b/g ID twins. It is extremely rare, and happens do to chromosomal defects. However, most people who think b/g twins can be identical are just clueless – I have b/g twins and I got asked if they were identical a lot. They don’t even have the same hair color.

      • guest

        * “due to chromosomal defects”

    • Who?

      It’s hard to imagine anyone without an axe to grind wanting to do it.

      I’d go and keep a friend company while in labour if she wanted me to (preferably up the head end) but wouldn’t be comfortable with taking money from her to do it. And why would I want to do it with a stranger, and why would a stranger want me there? My time-even when charging to be empathetic wallpaper-would make a long labour pretty expensive.

      • twobirdsonestone

        But hiring a doula decreases your risk of unnecessary interventions and prevents cesarean sections and makes labor less painful..you know just by being there…

        But in all seriousness, I was shocked to read what some women were paying for a non-medical professional to sit around and spoon feed them ice chips.

    • Medwife

      I had a non- woo doula. She was great. I knew how to screen for woo, though.

  • CSN0116

    Dad writes on YouTube that it’s, “the beautiful footage of his son ‘transitioning between worlds’.”

    So there you have it.

    • Daleth

      Fortunately he transitioned into the world of the living rather than the world of the dead. No thanks to the parents, of course…

    • Taysha

      Is it a baby or a trout?

  • Zornorph

    I can’t watch these stunt birth videos anymore after seeing that one where the mother crapped out her baby on a rock next to a forest stream.

    • AirPlant

      Aw, that lady was the best! She brought her yoga mat and everything!

    • canaduck

      I’ve been reading backwards through some past blog entries and just got to that one! Gross.

    • niteseer

      I thought it was entertaining when she shooed the flies away that were landing on top of her baby’s crowning head. There is nothing to make you feel better about your entry into the world, than seeing flies landing on your head as it sticks out of your mother’s twat.

      • Zornorph

        Hey, don’t knock flies, flies are natural. And of course they enjoy the birthy smells.

  • meglo91

    Couldn’t even watch it. Just the still frame is enough to give me the shudders. Jesus Christ. Having my third in a hospital in 3 or 4 weeks time, and SO effing glad.

    • Sean Jungian

      I’m with you, and I’m not even pregnant. I’ll never watch these monstrosities.

    • demodocus

      Fortunately for my hormones, I’m too ignorant to be *that* bothered by it. Fortunately for my passenger, I’m not stupid enough to try it..

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    I thought it was all important, for bonding if for nothing else, to have immediate skin-to-skin? I guess all that doesn’t matter when the baby can be a prop in a social media skit.

    • Glia

      Hah, I was going to say the same thing! Apparently delaying skin to skin long enough to weigh the baby will forever damage the bonding process, but saying “Hang on, baby, you just hang out in the cold bacteria water while Mommy posts this to Youtube!” is fine?

    • guest

      They also washed all the vernix off in that pool! Bad NCB parents!

  • canaduck

    Even if I pretend that the diving reflex crap is true, I can’t understand how anybody would think that an infant would be totally fine without oxygen for that long. Is the idea that the baby won’t breathe underwater or that being underwater during birth imbues them with temporary magical powers? How are these people so dumb?

    • Roadstergal

      I think it’s the ‘umbilical cord is SCUBA gear’ mentality. Waterbirth is great, cutting the cord is abuse.

      • canaduck

        Ah, okay, that makes sense. I mean, not “sense”, exactly, but it clarifies the type of stupidity that this poor baby had to deal with.

  • RaineyDay

    I really prefer my babies to have oxygen and warmth.

    • momofone

      That’s so establishment, man. I bet you even put hats on them.

  • CSN0116

    What the FUCK did I just watch?!

    That was disturbing in at least 14 different ways …dad literally in the tub is about #2.

    And what’s the point? That water was so shallow, mom was probably barely in there, which means she labored outside the tub. So, why hop in last minute? To avoid the burning sensation (ha, good luck)? Or to be an attention whore, performing for all of YouTube to see?! You can tell that this shenanigan was planned out ahead of time – the underwater camera, dad in position to capture it, etc.

    Fucking gross.

    • Poogles

      I think in this case, it was all about the “gentle transition” from womb to outside, so that’s why she went ahead and jumped in last minute. It sounds like a nice idea…until you actually know all the ways it can go very, very wrong.

      • Inmara

        Yeah, the “gentle transition” lie is what sells waterbirth for many women. And false safety, since many hospitals offer them (with actual birth in water, not only relaxing during labor).

  • PrudentPlanner

    I can’t even watch these videos any more. There was just one of a Doctor PLAYING with a baby born en caul. The baby grimaced and gasped, and the Staff laughed …
    I screamed at my screen.. “LET IT BREATHE” Finally the Dr. pierced the caul and the baby screamed. That was my last baby in the water video.

    • demodocus

      an actual doctor? *shudder*

  • no longer drinking the koolaid

    It’s really hard to tell, but it looks like the baby was not completely delivered for most of that time. A much better idea would have been to have mom stand up or change her position so that the baby’s face was out of the water while you work to get the body out. Look like fetal abdominal dystocia to me.

    • guest

      I was wondering what the holdup was. I didn’t know you could have abdominal dystocia, but it was my understanding that once you get the head and shoulders out the rest usually follows quickly.

      • no longer drinking the koolaid

        I’ve seen it 3-4 times. Head comes out. Shoulders and chest and then baby is stuck. It feels like the vagina and the uterus create a suction that just won’t let go of the baby. I have to get my hand up in there to break the suction and still work really hard to get the baby out.
        Did see it once with a baby that had a huge sacrococcygeal teratoma. Parents had refused an ultrasound and had no idea. Darn thing was the same size as the 8# baby and ruptured. Baby died.

        • Glia

          Whoa….scary. If they had gotten the ultrasound and known about it, is that something the baby could have otherwise survived?

          • no longer drinking the koolaid

            There is a 95% mortality with SCT if nothing is done. Usually the baby is watched very closely and delivered by C/S at 35 weeks, at the latest.
            Big issue is that SCT requires circulation and baby supplies it at the peril of its own organ systems and health. Usually, the babies are anemic and begin suffering from congestive heart failure.
            With proper MFM care these babies have a good chance of survival.
            When I talked with these parents weeks after the birth, they said they would do it the same way and would have refused a C/S for the delivery.

          • Glia

            Well, that’s about 12 different kinds of all fucked up, right there. Thanks for the explanation.

          • Nikat

            What is wrong with these people? They should never be allowed to be in a position of power over children. Ever!

            I’ve lost babies, and there is nothing I wouldn’t have done, no procedure too invasive or “unnatural”, to have them alive now. No one that callous about the death of their children should ever be a parent.

        • guest

          I found some studies indicating it can also occur with cystic fibrosis – some kind of infection/fluid retention. So many thinks you never knew could go wrong with birth, and yet we are supposed to “trust” it?

    • Margo

      Yep that’s what I was thinking, change position, stand up, or however you do it get the baby out of the water, it was stuck(?) for what seems an awful long time, usually head, shoulders and then body pretty much follows straight away. If I was an about to birth mum thinking about a waterbirth, this video and the other one would have me alarmed for sure.

  • critter8875

    Why not just hold its head in the toilet?

    • Rachele Willoughby

      It’s hard to get a camera in there.

      • Kq

        ZING!

    • yugaya

      This blog has seen it all – toilet birth included: http://www.skepticalob.com/2015/10/the-toilet-bowl-baby.html

      • BeatriceC

        To be fair, sometimes it happens by accident. My sister didn’t realize she was in labor. She thought she had moderate gas and needed to have a bowel movement. She had a baby instead. Of course she panicked, pulled the baby out of the toilet and called 911 immediately instead of taking a picture and tweeting about it.