Electing Trump would inaugurate an American reign of terror

Bullet holes from a Kalashnikov rifle in front windshield

I generally write about the science and pseudoscience of parenting, but it’s hard to feel that has much importance at the moment, when our country faces an unprecedented threat to its existence as a beacon of freedom and justice.

Yes, I can hear you saying: What’s the big deal? Another day another outrageous statement from Donald Trump. But yesterday August 9 was not just another day. It was the day that Donald Trump made it clear that he views violence as a political tool. And anyone who thinks he wouldn’t expand upon its use when president is not paying attention.

[pullquote align=”right” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]Yesterday, Trump didn’t merely threaten Hillary Clinton, he threatened all of us.[/pullquote]

What did Trump say?

According to the HuffPo piece Donald Trump Suggests Shooting Hillary Clinton, Her Supreme Court Picks, Or Both:

Donald Trump on Tuesday warned his supporters that if Hillary Clinton is elected president and appoints judges to the Supreme Court, there is nothing anyone can do about it. But then he added that, given the Second Amendment, maybe there is.

“If she gets to pick her judges ― nothing you can do, folks,” Trump said with a shrug at a rally in Wilmington, North Carolina. “Although, the Second Amendment people. Maybe there is. I don’t know.”

In other words, Trump was issuing incitement to violence.

His supporters, parroting his campaign, insist that it was misunderstood or it was a joke.

Guess what? That doesn’t change anything.

No one who loves America should ever incite violence against rivals even as a joke, as a mistake, or in any other possible way. If Trump were truly so inarticulate or clueless, he has disqualified himself for dog-catcher, let alone president.

Trump has made no secret of his admiration for Vladimir Putin, Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong-Un and other tyrants and he’s made no secret of the fact that what he finds most attractive is their ability to suppress, punish and kill their enemies. Trump has repeatedly condoned violence, not merely in general, but within the same room where he is actually speaking. He has repeatedly encouraged his followers to beat up dissenters within rallies and offered to pay their legal fees when arrested.

In regard to Hillary Clinton he has suggested that she should be shot and at a minimum, she should be jailed. That’s what dictators do with they gain power; they arrest their rivals and kill them. That’s certainly what Trump’s buddy Putin does; that’s certainly what Saddam Hussein did and apparently it’s what Trump admires most about the North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Un.

As he explained in January of this year:

And all of a sudden — and you know it’s pretty amazing when you think of it — how does he do that? Even though it is a culture and it’s a cultural thing, he goes in, he takes over, and he’s the boss,” Trump recalled. “It’s incredible. He wiped out the uncle. He wiped out this one, that one. I mean, this guy doesn’t play games. And we can’t play games with him. Because he really does have missiles. And he really does have nukes.”

He’s inciting violence when he’s on his “best behavior” as a candidate and has no power. What will he do if he’s given access to power? He will inaugurate a reign of terror against his political and business rivals. He’ll start by locking up Hillary Clinton but that will be just the beginning. He will attempt to punish anyone who has ever opposed him.

Consider the case of a reporter who wrote about him unfavorably As hedge fund manager Neil Barsky recently revealed in a chilling piece in The NYTimes:

Weeks later, after I wrote a tough article [in The Wall Street Journal] about Mr. Trump’s finances, his public relations representative called The New York Post’s Page Six and said, as I was told later by a senior Post reporter, “How would you like to destroy the career of a Wall Street Journal reporter?” The story that resulted made a series of wild and bogus accusations, saying I had extorted the tickets, asked for a suite at the Taj, and that out of anger that I hadn’t received more favors, had written negative articles about him.

Years later when Trump met Barsky socially, Trump did not deny the effort to smear Barsky:

“You hit me, then I hit you,” he said, with the wistful air of a nostalgic boxer. “As far as I’m concerned, we’re even.”

Electing Trump to the presidency would massively increase his power to threaten, to imprison, to encourage and to countenance violence.

Anyone who thinks that would be restricted to Hillary Clinton, Democrats and racial minorities has not been paying attention. Ted Cruz would be ruined or imprisoned on false charges or both. And if Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell think that endorsing Trump would offer them protection, they’re breathtakingly naive.

Next up would be Trump’s business rivals and journalists who criticized him in any way. Trump views the presidency as a way to build his brand and increase his currently meager fortune. There would be no way to compete with the Trump family in any marketplace.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that is a fool.

But the biggest fools of all are Trump supporters. For some reason they seem to believe that he will help them despite the massive amount of evidence that he has never given a damn about them and doesn’t give a damn about them now. He is the personification of their economic troubles, a business leader who imports foreign labor and produces his products in other countries, thereby depriving American blue collar workers of desperately needed jobs.

He will do NOTHING to improve the lot of the angry, poor white men who flock to him and if they complain, he’ll punish them with whatever methods he has at his disposal.

When Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence in 1776, the political classes of Europe believed the American experiment was doomed. Violence was and had always been the best way to deal with political rivals and it was believed impossible that power would be handed over based on the will of the people. The presidential election of 1800, Adams vs. Jefferson, was a watershed in American and possibly even world history. The two candidates hated each other bitterly, but when Adams lost the election, there was no violence. That fact is part of what makes America the greatest country in the history of the world.

Donald Trump has signaled in every way possible that he would inaugurate an American reign of terror. He has incited and countenanced violence at his rallies, has trumpeted his admiration for dictators and has threatened violence to his political rivals.

Most people understand this already. That’s why Trump has lost the support of establishment Republicans and why many are calling for him to be removed from the ticket. But Trump’s supporters still think, in spite of all the evidence, that by electing him they will help themselves. Donald Trump has never lifted a finger to help blue collar workers and he isn’t going to start now. Their naïveté might be charming in other circumstances, but not in this one. And when they finally figure out that he has betrayed them, there won’t be a damned thing they can do about it.

Everyone knows that Trump is an inveterate liar, a cheat, and a person who never pays for what he can steal … and those are his good qualities. But that pales into insignificance beside the biggest threat of all, political violence.

Donald Trump is the greatest threat to America today, even greater than foreign terrorism. The terrorist threat of violence comes from outside and can easily be withstood by a country as powerful and united against terror as ours. Trump portends  the evil of domestic terrorism, a wholesale takeover of the machinery of government so it can be directed at punishing those who threaten his interests.

Yesterday, Trump didn’t merely threaten Clinton, he threatened all of us.

We would be fools to ignore it.

  • Bensa Magos

    But you forget about that other populist uprising, the French Revolution. In my new book “Reign of Trump,” it is exactly for this reason that the American people will elect President Trump as a declaration, the people will demand tribunals for both members of the seditious Left and the traitorous Right. We are sure to have ‘Trump Terror Tribunals’ televised and hosted by President Trump, perhaps even ‘Talking Tribunals’ after-show summary with Chris Hardwick.

    https://booklaunch.io/bensamagos/reignoftrump

    To paraphrase Robespierre, in the revolution justice comes to lead the people by means of reason and the enemies of the people by means of terror.

    • Wren

      My mind boggles at the idea of “Trump” and “lead the people by means of reason” together.

    • demodocus

      France, the land of “you wear too much clothing at the beach, I’m not going to allow that for your own good.”

  • Ardea

    This is a good article, Dr. Tuteur. I often drop by after something momentous in the news and wish I could find your commentary on it, simply because I find you an intelligent writer. So, thanks.

  • The Computer Ate My Nym

    For the “but I can’t stand Clinton” folks, may I suggest that the 1991 Louisiana governor’s election is relevant?

    http://www.cracked.com/article_24230_5-american-elections-even-more-ridiculous-than-this-one_p2.html

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    “I’ve always said that I would be willing to debate if I’m treated fairly,” Trump told Hannity. “But if the media keeps recording everything I say, word for word, and then playing it back so that everyone in the country hears exactly what I said, I would consider that very, very unfair.”

    It’s a parody, of course.

    • Beth

      he said that? wow. so basically “how dare they accurately quote me!”

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        No, it is a parody (see my edit)

    • MaineJen

      “You’re quoting what I actually said, taking my statements seriously, and putting them in context. How is that fair?”

  • Inmara

    I am from a small European country which got its independence from Russia after WWI, lost it during WWII and regained after collapse of USSR. The ONLY real thing that stands between our freedom and Russian occupation (think Crimea) is strong NATO of which USA is a crucial part. Given Trump’s announcements that he doubts absolute enforcement of Article 5 of NATO Treaty – yeah, I guess we can start to brace ourselves for a Russian invasion in foreseeable future if Trump wins.

    • Amazed

      Small European country here as well. SSSR’s most faithful satelite (actually, the only country where the local Communists later didn’t even try to side with their own people against SSSR). Always been the unfortunate object of Imperial Russia’s interest because we’re the way to the Straits. A Russian political scientist recently said in no obscure words that they need us weak and broken. We already have a strong presence of Russians living concentratedly in an area which was an object of all the Tsars – and Stalin’s – interests. And as we know, Putin feels that he has to protect the Russian citizens all around the world. How long would it be before this becomes a Russian territory, the Crimea way? With Putin’s buddy in power, God help us as well.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      That is exactly what Putin, Trump’s biggest supporter, is counting on. It’s ironic that the “patriots” of the Tea Party in the US are supporting a Russian flunky.

    • Daleth

      Yes, the only things Putin needs before he goes marching into your country and several others are:
      (1) Trump as US president, and
      (2) a weakened Europe.

      We know Putin is supporting Trump; indeed, it seems he and his cronies are even Trump’s bankers, since US banks won’t lend anymore to a nutjob who’s being sued for fraud on a massive scale and whose businesses have declared bankruptcy four times.

      What do you want to bet Putin and his cronies also slipped some cash to the Brexit “leave” campaign? Because after all, literally the only one who benefits from the current chaos in the UK and resulting destabilization in the EU is Putin’s Russia.

      And I even wonder, hmm, who is giving money and weapons to the terrorists who have attacked Europe this past year? For instance, the Nice truck attacker: he was a 31-year-old loser from a third-world country (Tunisia) who worked as a delivery driver. So where the hell did he get the 84,000 Euros he wired to his family in Tunisia the week before the attack?!
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/16/bastille-day-terrorist-was-radicalised-within-months-and-sent-84/

      • demodocus

        that’s a bit paranoid. on the other hand, if anyone has the ability and desire to pull off that level of conspiratorial mayhem, it’d be Putin.

        • Daleth

          Yup. And Putin–as an ex-KGB foreign intelligence officer who has publicly lamented Russia’s loss of the countries it invaded, recently annexed Crimea, and tried to take over Ukraine–is among the very, very few political leaders that it actually makes sense to be a little paranoid about.

        • Daleth

          Update:

          UK officials now think Russia may have interfered with the Brexit vote
          …Only this week, Chris Bryant told Parliament:
          “There is now clear evidence of Russian direct, corrupt involvement in
          elections in France, in Germany, in the United States of America, and I
          would argue also in this country.”

          …An EU official, who specialises in Kremlin disinformation, told BI last month
          that the propaganda is aimed at destabilising Europe. “Any chance to
          divide and destabilise the West is exploited. It goes hand in hand with
          the political aim of the current Russian regime. They see themselves as
          being in a war with the West,” the source said.

          http://www.businessinsider.com/labour-mp-ben-bradshaw-suspicious-russian-interference-brexit-2017-2

          • demodocus

            *shudder*

  • Dr Kitty

    I come from NORTHERN IRELAND, where politicians, in the main, are either convicted former terrorists or right wing Free Presbyterians who believe the pope is the Antichrist and the bible is literally true… and I think Trump is still the least qualified, craziest, most ignorant politician I have ever heard.

    After losing to Obama for the second time the GOP decided to double down and appeal to the base (by which they meant rural, white, working class gun-owners without tertiary education), rather than expanding their appeal to groups who have previously been overlooked by the party.

    However, by consistently appealing to the lowest common denominator, they’ve ended up with Trump.

    Good work GOP.

    • Gene

      You forgot racist, xenophobic, and misogynistic. I have many family members firmly in the trump camp. It has provided a quasi legitimate voice of their long held previously covered up beliefs.

      • Dr Kitty

        My husband, the ultimate cynic, is l “if all the Republican security high ups are anti-Trump, can we expect an unfortunate accident or sudden heart attack to befall Trump in September, and a moderate Republican candidate to emerge?”, at which point I tell him life doesn’t work like Scandal and House of Cards.

        • Who?

          I reckon a bad strawberry at the Inauguration Dinner is not out of the question.

          Though given the vice president in waiting, it’s not an altogether cheering thought.

          • demodocus

            Pence is not yet the vp-in-waiting, and no, he’s not my moderate cup of tea either.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          If an unfortunate accident does befall Trump, he will be replaced by a radical right wing Republican, not a moderate. Don’t get your hopes up.

    • Amy

      Probably because unless you’re ultra-rich or ultra-religious, there IS no appeal to the GOP’s policies. That leaves racist dogwhistles as their only hope of getting votes.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        I have to say, I see NO appeal of Trump for the ultra-religious.

        • Amy

          I should have clarified. If your religious practice is concentrated on restricting health care for women, cutting social programs for the poor, and keeping LGBTQ people second class citizens, Trump looks better.

          • Dinolindor

            I think that there’s also appeal for the prosperity gospel types, because they see Trump’s wealth as a sign of God’s blessing on him.

        • Roadstergal

          The Slacktivist has some interesting posts on why US evangelicals are supporting Trump.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Didn’t I hear the other day that, in fact, he is now polling behind Clinton among religious?

          • Roadstergal

            I thought that was the Catholics? But if the evangelicals are starting to follow suit, that would be lovely…

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    Trump supporters have gone way over the line. Instead of “lock her up”, refrains of “hang the bitch” and “kill the bitch” have grown increasingly common at Trump rallies.

    And they are also threatening journalists. ““MAYBE A FEW JOURNALISTS DO NEED TO BE WHACKED,” tweeted someone with the handle GuyScott33, two weeks after Trump lashed out. “MAYBE THEN THEYD STOP BEI[N]G BIASED HACKS. KILL EM ALL STARTING W/ KATY TUR.””

    Kill your political opponents and members of the media who say bad things about you. That’s the American way, right?

    This is abhorrent.

    • MaineJen

      I refuse to believe this is what my coutry is now.

      I refuse to believe that this psychopath won’t lose in a landslide in November.

      We are not THIS.

      • moto_librarian

        I desperately hope that you are right. But I am deeply afraid.

      • Ardea

        Have you seen this? I would like to say that this is not who we are, either, yet these people say all sorts of crude and vulgar and violent things and then turn around and say, “We’re just trying to preserve our culture.”

        http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/us/politics/donald-trump-supporters.html

        • demodocus

          I’m from an old Yankee family. All of my ancestors were here by 1850 and most before the revolution. 2 of my tree’s roots helped found the states of Connecticut and Massachusetts. I dunno whose culture they’re trying to preserve, but it ain’t mine.

  • Margo

    Trump is on our news every night and it is very scarey indeed. I am, like many others, here in New Zealand, very worried re the political scene in your amazing country. I sincerely hope he doesn’t get in.

  • Amy Tuteur, MD

    The Secret Service believes that Trump threatened Clinton with violence: http://www.businessinsider.com/secret-service-donald-trump-second-amendment-remark-2016-8

    • demodocus

      Well, that’s not the least bit disturbing. Can you imagine being the ones assigned to him? Must be -interesting-

      • kfunk937

        Quite efficient, however: protectee is the person of interest/suspect.

      • Who?

        I heard someone the other day sympathising with the armed forces officers on the nuclear buttons. They are tasked, ultimately, with the unthinkable-unleashing huge violence and death on the say-so of one person.

        When that person is a thoughtful, intelligent person who takes advice, that’s one thing.

        When that person is a petulant, arrogant jackass with multiple attitude problems, the unthinkable becomes unbearable.

    • mabelcruet

      Would the American military obey Trump? In the UK, soldiers swear an oath of allegiance to protect and serve the Queen and her heirs, and obey the generals and officers set over them, but NOT to obey the current government, and its made clear that a soldier should use their judgement whether an order is legitimate and legal. I can’t imagine that ordinary USA soldiers would obey some of Trump’s suggestions-didn’t he say that families of known terrorists should be tortured ‘a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding’ was his phrase. Wouldn’t any reasonable soldier see that as illegal, or are they required to obey orders, no matter how ludicrous, illegal or obscene?

      Trump terrifies me-I’m fairly apolitical generally but I am keeping my fingers very tightly crossed that he has done this because he’s bored/attention seeking/doing a massive population experiment of some sort, or he’s like UK’s Boris Johnston in the Brexit campaign and will be completely gobsmacked if he wins and then run away. if he gets in, heaven help America and the rest of us, because we’ll be truly buggered.

      • Who?

        It’s a nightmare for soldiers. They are not allowed to obey an unlawful order-being under orders is no excuse for committing an atrocity-but with a lunatic in charge, they might just pay with their own life for saying no. Though it’s hard to imagine one soldier taking an order from Trump to execute another.

        In the UK, as here, the head of state is a different role from the head of government-in the US they are the same person. In the UK (and Australia, where I am) the head of state is either an hereditary monarch (the issues with which are for another day) or an appointee of the monarch. Both here and in the UK the most powerful position he could attain is Prime Minister: though here in Oz if he took a couple of seats in our upper house he could wreak some political and legislative havoc, while having no executive power.

        I think he just wants to win, and has no particular interest in being president. It feels like he took a bet to run and now he can’t back down.

        • Roadstergal

          “I think he just wants to win, and has no particular interest in being president.”

          If Kasich can be believed, he wants his vice president to do all the work, and himself to just have the pomp and circumstance and Air Force One.

          So, hey, Pence! That’s a good pick for keeping my lady bits my own business! /s

  • KeeperOfTheBooks

    I have no idea what the hell I’m going to do come November. Unlike many of the commenters here, I tend to vote pro-life first. Yet it says a great deal about Donald Trump that I’m aligned with most of you in my views on the man and the candidate.
    Donald Trump is exactly as pro-life as his evangelical donations, which means that as long as they continue to heavily support him, he’ll do whatever crackpot thing they want. I think Trump himself has few personal convictions on the matter, beyond perhaps wishing that those nasty brown people would go have a lot of abortions so that they aren’t here to keep America from being great again. (Of course, I think he has few personal convictions on, well, anything, but I digress.) He’s the political heir to Mussolini in his suppression of the press (even those on his side!) and his overall platform, which is near-identical to Mussolini’s in many respects.
    Between his comments in re chemical warfare, his seeming determination to kick off WWIII with anyone who looks at him funny, his total disdain for basic civil rights, and his execrable treatment of Kovaleski, I can’t for a moment consider him a pro-life candidate. On a personal level, he seems to be an utterly despicable, disgusting human being.
    At the same time, I trust Clinton about as far as I can throw her, disagree with her (as I do Trump) on nearly every issue, and think she’d be a disaster as a president…but perhaps not quite such a disaster as Trump. I’m currently more likely to vote for her, and goodness knows those are words I could NEVER have imagined saying before now.
    What a situation. The only thing I know for sure is that I’m getting in several bottles of wine for DH and I to split on election night and inauguration day. Goodness knows we’ll need ’em either way.

    • Nick Sanders

      Conscientious abstention or a spoiled ballot (if you have a paper ballot) are totally reasonable actions if you disagree with all candidates.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      Linden is offering “purity retained” certification if you are only voting for Clinton to avoid Trump as a favor to Linden and other non-US-Americans who don’t want to be on the other side of Trump’s “why not just use nukes?” question.

    • Zornorph

      Vote for Gary Johnson. His picks for the Supreme Court would be much better than anything you’d get out of Hillary Clinton.

      • Carlyn Ulrike

        If I thought for a SECOND a 3rd party might stand a chance in hell I would go for it. Unfortunately the polls so far show what they pretty much always have, which is “not a chance.” And I’m not willing to waste a vote that could keep that maniac Trump out of office. The tide would have to shift big time. Fingers crossed.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          Exactly. Why waste a vote on someone who doesn’t have a chance of winning. This election is between Clinton and Trump. One of them will win. A vote for Stein or Johnson is the same as not voting.

    • Dinolindor

      How much time do you think the president is hands-on with regards to abortion related issues? I understand voting on that issue for lower offices, but for president? I also understand the Supreme Court appointments that are predicted for the next term. But given what the Republicans have been offering up as abortion-curbing policy, do you really want the Supreme Court upholding such nonsense?

      I agree that there are problems with Hillary, and I cannot believe that I am supporting her, given my own past political opinions. However, I do believe that she is a pragmatist and that is something I admire. I think that her pragmatism sometimes leads to some not-so-good places, but at the end of the day, she already has listened to way more of the population than Trump ever will, adjusted her stance to better reflect what people need, and has actually governed. In the end, I think that our electoral system means that any vote that isn’t for Hillary is a de facto vote for Trump, and that’s a risk I don’t think we can afford to take.

      • MaineJen

        The president appoints Supreme Court justices, which has huge implications for women’s health in the US. Stance on abortion is therefore hugely important in a presidential candidate.

        • Dinolindor

          I understand that (as I said above). But my point is that if what you want is to end the seeking out of abortions, or at least reduce that number, then you can’t support appointing Supreme Court justices that will uphold what the Republican legislation that basically just messes with women versus legislation that aims to provide contraception or education or whatnot. If you’re truly pro-life, then I don’t think you can agree with the regulations Republicans routinely try to sneak through that basically shuts down clinics for things that have nothing to do with safety, while not addressing the needs of women. If you were to come at it from a pro-life point of view, do you see what I mean?

    • CCL (Crazy Cat Lady)

      I don’t know if this helps but I found this blog post to be an interesting read.

      http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/pro-life-voting-for-hillary-clinton

    • CCL (Crazy Cat Lady)

      Lots of people are struggling with this issue. This blog post is quite interesting:

      http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/pro-life-voting-for-hillary-clinton

  • MaineJen

    I’m convinced this is all the fault of some philandering time traveler. He or she changed the past in some catastrophic way (think Old Biff stealing the sports almanac and giving it to Young Biff), and we are all now living in an alternate, dystopian timeline. Biff is married to Marty’s mom, dogs and cats are living together, and *Donald Trump* is the Republican nominee.

    Someone needs to hop in the Delorian, go back to where the mistake was made and FIX THIS.

    • yentavegan

      I would laugh at the creative genius of your post, but I am too worried over what is going on in the here and now.

      • MaineJen

        Sometimes I have to laugh, or I would be completely immobilized by my shock and outrage. And my disappointment that so many people in my country think that “He speaks his mind!” makes it all okay.

        • sdsures

          “He speaks his mind!”

          So does a salt-water crocodile.

          • Roadstergal

            Toddlers speak their minds.

          • Megan

            With great frequency, I might add…

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            And I’m pretty sure that DD’s extensive fit thrown this morning on how I was the meanest mommy EVER for making my bed (long story, don’t ask, I do so every morning) was more intelligent than most of the political dialogue we’ve been subjected to during this election cycle.

          • demodocus

            They tend to be nicer about it, too.

          • Linden

            Well, occasionally, mine sounds like Trump:
            “NO! MINE!”

          • sdsures

            True, but they don’t always get what they want.

    • KeeperOfTheBooks

      See, my theory is that a Top-Secret Conglomerate (TM) of vineyard owners, brewers, and liquor manufacturers came together and arranged this election in order to ensure record sales of their respective products, but I could subscribe to yours, too.

      • Roadstergal

        Oh my goodness, you have something, there. *eyes Hanger One with suspicion*

      • The Computer Ate My Nym

        If the debates come through and drinking games start up, I’ll consider your theory confirmed.

        • demodocus

          I’d be careful there. Don’t want to get alcohol poisoning. 🙁

      • mabelcruet

        He’s secretly sponsored by ‘Big Pharma’ so that when he gets on and everyone is terrified of what he’ll do next, they can sell more sedatives, antidepressents and sleeping pills to calm the population down.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      Myself, I’m thinking that I shouldn’t have stepped on that butterfly.

      • Artemisia

        That is such a frighteningly spooky story! All the points to you for the reference.

  • Madtowngirl

    I tried to engage in a conversation with a Trump supporter a few weeks ago. Admittedly, I started trolling him after a while because he couldn’t accept facts that were in discord with his personal beliefs on the matter. He 1) had no idea that Trump’s businesses have filed for bankruptcy 2) had no idea that Democrats and Republicans have switched platforms since 1865 3) threw up a very sexist meme about Hillary, but insisted he wasn’t sexist 4) admitted he got his facts from some anti-Hillary movie 5) and eventually just flounced out of the conversation, blocked us all, and unfriended the person who had started the original conversation. It was unbelievable, like he just plugged his ears and yelled “la, la, la” over all of the facts.

  • Jessica Rojakovick

    I recently found your blog/facebook, and read your book and could not be more on board with your philosophy on birth and child-rearing. But I don’t come to you for your views on politics, just like I would guess you don’t go to your doctor and ask them who they’re voting for, Dr. Tuteur! Please keep up the great medical/child-rearing posts, but I’ll be skipping (and sighing over) your forays into political punditry….

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      But they are not unrelated. Trump’s approach to things like women’s issues are very scary. For example, see his comments about sexual harassment, and how Ivanka would just go find a different job.

      Most of the criticism has focused on the reality that most women don’t have the opportunity to just change jobs like that. It’s true, but it also misses the point: it’s not whether they can or cannot change jobs, but whether they should even have to? Why should victims of sexual harassment be in any way expected to switch jobs? They are the victims. If anyone has to switch jobs, it should be the harasser (at least, they should be booted out).

      Issues such as these are absolutely relevant to this blog, and they are part of this presidential election.

      • Megan

        Or the fact that many SCOTUS decisions regarding planned parenthood and the continual effort to chip away at abortion rights are a direct consequence of who is elected to nominate them. Those issues are relevant to this blog too.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          In another discussion I’ve been in, the question has been, “How can Trump go any lower?” I have claimed that it is more likely than not that Trump will, at some point yet before the election, call Clinton a “bitch.”

          And the odds of him calling her a “cunt” only about 5/1 against.

          That is assuming that he shows up for the debates.

          What are the chances he drops an f-bomb during a debate?

          • Roadstergal

            And what are the chances that him calling her a ‘cunt’ will decrease his popularity among his core supporters?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            And what are the chances that him calling her a ‘cunt’ will decrease his popularity among his core supporters?

            Not even a question. The question is, how many core supporters will remain if he did?

          • Who?

            His core supporters? Most, I’d (from very far away) suggest. True conservatives, on the other hand, who identify as republicans, might find that a little hard to swallow.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Yeah, it would be a great way to find out how many core supporters he actually has. And it is a good legal alternative to shooting someone on 5th avenue (although that would also do it)

          • Charybdis

            Depends on how many of them secretly (or not so secretly) agree with the epithet.

          • Nick Sanders

            Probably none; on the other hand, it’s pretty much impossible to win a US election on a core alone. Thank goodness for diverse demographics.

          • Roadstergal

            That’s what I was thinking. “Enough PC! Tell it like it is!”

          • demodocus

            I hate that line. Half the people I know who use it get offended pretty damn easily themselves and a lot of “like it is” is subjective anyway. Yes, English is the primary language for much of the US, but Puerto Ricans are Americans, too.

          • MaineJen

            “Whaaaaat? It was just a joke…”

          • Amy

            I think he’ll drop the phrase “See you Next Tuesday” and then pretend he meant it literally.

        • Linden

          How about that the republican price of funding Zika prevention is defunding planned parenthood and ebola programs. They still broke up for their holidays anyway. But politics can be completely irrelevant to women’s health, apparently.

    • Amy Tuteur, MD

      I hope we can disagree to disagree. I wrote this post as a matter of patriotism. I love this country and fear that it and my fellow Americans are about to be grievously harmed.

      • Jessica Rojakovick

        I’ll agree to disagree, and will simply skip the posts. I thank you for the incredible service you’re providing in your writing on childbirth and child-rearing! It’s been an incredible encouragement to me. But I do hope that you don’t believe your readers have to agree with you on politics. I think you’ll lose a lot of readers if so, which would be tragic.

        • mabelcruet

          It’s her own blog, she pays for web hosting services or whatever, so she can write what she wants about whatever topic she wants. You don’t have to read it. You don’t have to agree with it, or believe in it. In fact, healthy debate is encouraged, and if you disagree with anyone on here, or any post, you are perfectly free to say so. Thats the difference between this blog and many others-I think you’ll find the author expects her readers to use their own brains, read the evidence and come to their own opinion.

      • Jessica Rojakovick

        Would it be possible to take my comments down, Dr. Tuteur? I’m sorry I ever commented at all and I apologize that I offended you and your commenters. I can’t figure out how to take my comments down. Thank you.

        • Amy Tuteur, MD

          No need to apologize or remove your comments! You are entitled to your opinions.

        • demodocus

          a lot of the regulars have been known to strongly disagree with Dr T and each other on one topic or another. It’s all fine

    • Linden

      Well, skip them, then, why comment?

    • Linden

      is it at all relevant to you that dr tuteur writes about an evidence-based approach to women’s health, with great respect for choices she doesn’t agree with, and one of the major parties is dead set against science, doesn’t respect women’s choices, and will implement policies that harm many women? You can skip the political posts. To me, they are completely on topic.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        It’s easier to skip the posts and call them off-topic than to actually try to address the content and defend the opposing view.

        • yentavegan

          ^^^^

    • C T

      I hear you. Very disappointing that Dr. Tuteur is so ignorant about politics as to think this is somehow a call to violence. It’s clearly about voting pressure and lobbying, which can sometimes be effective in getting the Senate to block a judicial nomination. I used to view her as a good source of information, but it appears she is not willing to exercise her own critical thinking skills on this issue.

      • Linden

        Yeah, that works. ” This woman is the literal devil. Let me outline a scenario where she’s already won. There’s nothing you can do except go back in time and kill her… with VOTES. Hur hur.”
        *eyeroll*
        Please keep telling us we didn’ t hear what we actually heard.

        • Linden

          And, oh look, the NRA have taken a $3million dollar ad campaign out. “Hillary Clinton is out of touch. She has Secret Service Protection!”
          She has secret service protection because she’s been demonized for decades and there are people who genuinely want her to die. And many of these people have guns. The least you can do is *limit* access. She was on a bus, for heaven’s sake, traveling all over the place. So it is not like access has been limited a lot.

          • demodocus

            Don’t ex-presidents and their spouses continue to have secret service?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Shoot, I thought presidential candidates got secret service protection. Trump has it, too, right?

          • Linden

            Of course he does. But Trump doesn’t need to be in touch with people. He’s a yuuge businessman, whereas Clinton is merely a woman. She needs to be in touch with people, don’t you know.

          • Linden

            Doesn’t matter, I guess. How dare she take up space???

          • Guest

            Yes, Jimmy Carter and his wife knocked on my door one day and they had secret service folks with them. This story sounds weird until I explain they were campaigning for their grandson.

        • C T

          If you review the mess that happens when the Senate tries to block judicial nominations, as pressured by constituents and lobbyists, you’d understand what those “Second Amendment people” can do. Then there are Constitutional Amendments, again something that can theoretically be achieved by voting, but REALLY hard to get through. And federal legislation that works around recent court decisions, again something that can be achieved by voting.
          Hate Trump all you want, but we all lose when innocuous words are made out to be violent threats.

          • Linden

            “This woman is the literal DEVIL. Obama FOUNDED ISIS. They want to take your GUNS! Second Amendment People! Rise up… and make concerted lobbying efforts to affect judicial nominations.”
            I’m laughing so hard at your attempts to gaslight all of us. You keep turning down that wick, I’ve got my nightvision goggles on.

      • Sarah

        While I don’t come here for Dr Amy’s political views and, like you, would prefer she kept to her subject of expertise, your attempts to construe the comments as anything other than a call to violence are yoga level stretchy.

      • Amy

        It’s obvious you didn’t listen to the quote or are pretending not to have. He called upon “second amendment people” to “do something” AFTER the election, AFTER Clinton appoints justices to the Supreme Court.

        How exactly would voting after the fact help anything?

        • C T

          NRA lobbying and constituents pressuring Senators to block nominations. It’s messy and hard, but sometimes it works.

          • Amy

            As Bofa pointed out, “Hey, gun people, maybe you can do something” means only one thing. Otherwise why confine it to gun people?

            And the NRA already controls the entire gun control debate far too much. Even their rank and file membership disagree. Unfortunately, the way the NRA confers “lifetime memberships” and the way that many gun clubs require NRA membership for insurance purposes, many people aren’t at liberty to “vote with their feet.”

            But please, continue to insist that this was about the long, messy senate confirmation process, and that Trump was alluding to THAT. Because we all know, he’s so subtle and so attuned to the nuances of our government.

      • MaineJen

        …can’t tell if sarcasm or ignorance

        • C T

          “Maybe you can do something, I don’t know.” The next time you say those words, I hope you realize that you just issued a death threat. Or maybe you didn’t, and the press has invented a maelstrom.

          • MaineJen

            Except that’s not what he said. He referenced the 2nd amendment, the one that guarantees the right to bear arms. He accused Clinton of wanting to repeal the 2nd amendment (not true). Then he said the amendment’s supporters could do something about her after she is elected. The statement was nowhere *near* as innocent as you’d like us to think.

          • C T

            The DNC in July was definitely pushing gun control.

          • MaineJen

            Gun control does not equal repealing the 2nd amendment. The vast majority of Americans support sensible gun control measures.

          • Amy

            Not only that….Clinton on her own, even all the Democrats in the country on their own, couldn’t repeal the second amendment. That’s not the way changes to the constitution occur.

          • AnnaPDE

            Oh, so now the problem is that a statement is seen IN context, as opposed to taken out of context? Boo hoo. Can’t even make veiled threats any more! PC gone mad!

          • Amy

            If she says it after addressing a group of people who have love of a particular deadly weapon in common, then it will be a death threat. (Just like if she addressed, say, the American Iron Chefs to do something, we could conclude that a tasty meal might be prepared, or if she addressed the cast of Hamilton, we might be treated to some well-executed theatrical hip-hop.) Context matters.

          • Linden

            Context matters. I don’t, for a moment, think *you* are this stupid. You want us to ignore what he says, because he’s on you football team. We are aware that this is not a game. Donald Trump will lose. But his ugly will not be erased from the country.

          • Who?

            It’s passive aggressive. He is a scared weird and angry guy.

            Funny how it’s everyone’s fault but The Donald’s-it’s Hilary’s and Obama’s, it’s the press, it’s anyone but the loudmouth with the attitude problem.

            No care, no responsibility.

      • Azuran

        Except here’s the thing. Either Trump meant it as a call to violence. Which is totally unacceptable of someone who wants to freaking lead a country.
        Or it wasn’t what he meant, which means he is just so freaking stupid and careless that he can’t make a speech without accidentally formulating things that looks like death threats. How do you think that’s going to make the USA looks when he accidentally say that another world leader should get killed?

        • moto_librarian

          He’s not stupid. He phrased it that way purposefully so he could mount some level of defense when people were outraged. He is a wily sociopath.

          • Azuran

            Oh I totally believe that he 100% knew what he was saying.

        • C T

          “Maybe you can do something, I don’t know” has never been a death threat before to my knowledge. I can imagine off the lips of a mobster with cronies moving up threateningly behind him that those words could be threatening language, but if you watch the video, there’s nothing nonverbal going on to justify calling this a threat. “Second Amendment people” are not armed thugs, domestic terrorists, etc. They tend to be your average NRA person, often with police or military background, and generally pretty normal if you get to know them.

          • Irène Delse

            Try twisting the words a little more, you will get a pretzel. A whole bakery full, even.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            What exactly can specifically “second amendment people” do after the election? Not “Republicans” or “people who agree with me” or “Trump voters” but specifically “second amendment people”. The second amendment talks about nothing but the right to bear arms. What could Trump be talking about?

          • AnnaPDE

            Ah, their tremendous voting power of course. Which is going to matter after the election because second amendment people have time machines and will go back and change the outcome of the election. Obvious, right?
            Or maybe it’s a reference to them having guns to use against people when they don’t feel listened to? Nah, absurd.

      • Linden

        Trump: “Obama founded ISIS”
        Guiliani: “Media taking Trump’s words out of context!!!”
        Really, when will the gaslighting stop??

        • demodocus

          The comments on my local news’ facebook pages are troubling

        • C T

          I agree, Obama didn’t found ISIS. That was another dumb Trump statement. (I think both candidates are terrible.) But it doesn’t make it OK to falsely accuse him of inciting violence.

          • Linden

            That is *not* just a dumb statement from Trump. He’s saying Obama is Chief Terrorist. What did the USA do with the last chief terrorist?

      • moto_librarian

        You might want to brush up on your own critical thinking skills before you question Dr. Amy’s competence. Look up the term “stochastic violence” and get back to us.

        • C T

          When “maybe you can do something, I don’t know” is called a death threat (in the absence of any threatening gestures, of course, and there were none), the English language is what has been violently assaulted. There was no stochastic violence here except in the minds of those who think that “Second Amendment people” = domestic terrorists.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            “Guys in ISIS, maybe you can do something, I don’t know”

            What would that suggest, if not terrorism?

          • Azuran

            When the ‘you’ refers to ‘second amendment people’ which are specifically gun owners, then yes, it is a treat or at the very least, an incitation to violence.
            Only a blind idiot would not see it.

      • Megan

        His comment referenced a time AFTER the election of HRC so therefore cannot be about voting for Trump. Also, with great power comes great responsibility and as candidate for president he is responsible for not only what he says, but what people hear as well because there are great consequences to everything one says as a candidate or, if elected, as president. Even if he “didn’t mean it the way it was taken,” it doesn’t matter. Somewhere there is a follower who heard it as a call to violence and he has made no statement to ask that no violent measures be taken. It’s called “stochastic terrorism,” an often used technique of anti-abortion activists.

        • C T

          You do not mention judicial nomination fights. They are difficult and involve concerted efforts by voters and lobbyists.

          • Megan

            I seriously doubt Trump thought enough about it to make an off the cuff remark about “judicial nomination fights.” Is mental gymnastics part of the Olympics this year?

            And yes, I know multiple NRA members. That’s most of the population where I live. Many of them are responsible and sane. Not all of them are. It takes only one.

            Why has Trump not issued a statement saying not just, “I was misunderstood,” but also, “Please do not engage in violence against my opponent” It wouldn’t be that hard if he was, in fact, just misunderstood. But the vast majority of us recognize a dog whistle when we hear one.

        • C T

          When “maybe you can do something, I don’t know” is called a death threat (in the absence of any threatening gestures, of course, and there were none), the English language is what has been violently assaulted.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            When “maybe you can do something, I don’t know” is called a death threat

            Nonsense.

            It’s not “do something” that is the threat, it is who should do it. If I say that “those guys who went after Frankenstein’s monster, maybe they can do something” you don’t think I am advocating using torches and pitchforks?

            Hey, Lizzie Borden, maybe you can do something, I don’t know?

            You don’t think that is a threat?

            We all heard it. Everyone heard it. This wasn’t even a dog whistle. You have to be delusional to deny it.

          • C T

            And here’s the crux of the matter, isn’t it? You think “Second Amendment people” are domestic terrorists. Do you actually know any NRA members?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            And here’s the crux of the matter, isn’t it? You think “Second Amendment people” are domestic terrorists.

            No, they are gun lovers.

            Now, what do you think Trump is referring to when he says, “gun lovers, maybe you can do something” about a sitting president selecting members of the Supreme Court?

            You tell me. What do you think he was advocating for them to do?

            HINT: It would be too late go out to vote. And why would it be gun lovers?

          • Irène Delse

            The NRA managed to stop the CDC from conducting basic science on gun fatalities. If they’re not all actual murderers, they certainly aided and abetted the epidemic of gun violence. And don’t show any sign of relenting. So, as far as vouching for their civic consciousness goes, I’m afraid you’re on shaky ground.

          • Amy

            I’m married to one, and am a licensed carrier myself, so yes, I do. And my husband isn’t pretending Trump meant voting and lobbying.

      • Irène Delse

        Trump: “People who love guns have ways to stop gun legislation, y’know what I mean?”
        Public: “Did I had that correctly? He’s endorsing violence…”
        Trump fans and proponents of the both-sides narrative: “How can you be partisan! He’s talking about lobbying, that’s all!”

        Yeah, right. Lobbying at the barrel of the gun. But apart from that, totally not an extremist! Perish the thought.

      • Nick Sanders

        By the way, if she gets to pick, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don’t know.

        He’s not calling on “Second Amendment people” to do something. He’s saying “the Second Amendment” is something people can do.

        One can tell, because this is something the Republicans have said many times in the past:
        “Our Founding Fathers understood that the guys with the guns make the rules” – Wayne LaPierre, CPAC 2009
        “We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box. But that’s the beauty of our Second Amendment right. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting. But make no mistake. That was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our Second Amendment right was to guard against tyranny.” – Katherine Crabill, Tea Party rally 2009
        “You know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies,” – Sharon Angle, interview 2010
        “If ballots don’t work, bullets will.” – Joyce Kaufman, Tea Party rally 2010
        “So I’d much rather have an election where we solve this matter at the ballot box than have to resort to the bullet box.” – Larry Pratt, radio show 2016

    • nomofear

      I would certainly ask my doctor, if I there was time for conversation. They see the real-life consequences of government policy every day, so their opinion is worth a listen.

      • Who?

        My gp always takes a few minutes to chat about the events of the day/week. This morning we did the Australian census debacle and the mess my profession is in. She meets a lot of people-way more than I do-and I’m interested to hear her perspective.

    • Amy

      Yet you took the time to read and comment.

    • moto_librarian

      For starters, this is a blog, and none of us are Dr. Amy’s patients. And I do think that the institutional politics of where your doctor (especially your OBGYN) works are exceedingly important. I feel grateful that I live in an area where I do not have to use a Catholic hospital for my reproductive care. The policies of those institutions tie the hands of doctors, preventing them from practicing evidence-based care in some instances.

      Finally, Donald Trump is a sociopath. I’m to the point where I have to draw a line and tell people that if they are supporting this lunatic, we can no longer be friends. Saying nothing against him makes you complicit, and I will not stay silent. Nor should Dr. Amy or anyone else of conscience.

      • If we’re playing armchair psychologist, I’d argue Trump is a narcissist, not a sociopath.

        Most sociopaths I’ve talked to (online) are actually very decent people, because they understand that it is beneficial to them and to the people they care about if they are. It’s a somewhat clinical, logical ethos, but it gets the job done. Narcissists, on the other hand, really do think the world revolves around them. They get slighted easily, blow slights out of proportion, and hold grudges. They have poor impulse control, poor empathy (understanding of others’ emotions and points of view), and tend to surround themselves with yes-men. Sound like anyone familiar?

  • Linden

    I also don’t want to sound out of order, folks, especially since I am not a US citizen, but I have to say this.
    Folks who don’t like either candidate: Only Clinton or Trump can win this. There is no realistic other choice. If you live in a swing state, please “hold your nose” or bleach your hands or whatever, and vote for Clinton. I will personally send you a specially printed “Purity RETAINED: Only voted Clinton as a favour to Linden on the internet” badge. It will have unicorns on it.
    Even if you are not in a swing state, could you please come out and vote Democrat for other positions? Also, is your vote better wasted sending a message to Clinton, or sending a message to Trump? Please send a message to THE WORLD, that America is doing everything in its power to stop such a dangerous man

    • demodocus

      lol, i’d be proud to sport such a badge. 😉

    • Roadstergal

      Sure, as long I can get a “I think she would actually be a very good president” badge. 🙂

      • Linden

        Absolutely, coming right upp!!!
        Having not been subjected to the Media Clinton Character assassination campaign for decades, I find it a really easy choice, personally.
        That woman is made of steel.

        • Megan

          I’d like one too. I think she is the best prepared candidate for president in our history.

        • Roadstergal

          I liked her since the ’90s and her attempt to institute universal health care, but I think I most admired what she did after losing to Obama. She didn’t get bitter – she took it as an opportunity to grow and learn.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          I agree with this. I have said, the fact that she is not only still around after 25 years of incessant attacks shows you how absolutely impressive she is. How many candidates completely crash and burn to be gone for good after something very little, yet she has faced an onslaught of (mostly baseless) attacks for decades and is as strong as ever.

          The level of vitriol thrown at her is unprecedented, comparable to that thrown at Obama but for much longer.

          I can’t wait to see her win, if nothing else to watch the GOPers’ heads explode like the robot chicks on Star Trek. They’ve been scared shitless of her becoming president since about 1994, and have actively been trying to sabotage it since then. Seeing them fail will be awesome.

    • MI Dawn

      I’ll be looking for mine in November, Linden! 🙂

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      I am, shall we say, less than thrilled with Clinton’s positions on foreign policy. I find them overly aggressive and I don’t think much of her relationship with Henry Kissinger. That being said, who else am I going to vote for? The Russian stooge? The libertarian? The anti-vaxxer? It’s an obvious choice.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        Clinton’s positions on foreign policy might be overly aggressive for my tastes as well, but Trump’s idea of foreign affairs (I can’t call it a policy) is batshit crazy. He doesn’t have the first frigging clue about how to deal with other countries. Clinton’s hawkishness is miles better than that.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          “Why can’t we just use nukes?” Nope, nope, nopeity nope.

          • Mrs.Katt the Cat

            Yep, that decided my vote. I may not agree with Clinton and may not enjoy her presidency, but I believe I have a better chance of surviving it. Basic survival should really not be that important a concern.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            Heh. I’m part Hispanic. Mexican even. At this point, I’m thinking that if Trump is elected I might as well throw a scarf over my head, go to the first nice liberal Sufi mosque I can find, and ask them to bring me home to Allah. Trump’s going to kill me anyway, might as well be get into the Trump Concentration Camp while it’s still new and shiny.

          • Nick Sanders

            I genuinely expect to wind up homeless if Trump wins. I can barely get assistance I need as it is.

          • Amazed

            I can’t really like this post because content but god, from what I’ve seen this far, you might just be right. Hope he won’t borrow the idea of a bachelor/spinster tax from around here some good decades ago. Though with Donald Duck, who knows.

          • Mrs.Katt the Cat

            We are in process of moving in with my Mom and getting assistance. This last year has been rough. I hear ya on assistance being hard to come by as it is! I think she is the only one thrilled, she gets a live in grandbaby to spoil.

            (Long story short, MrKatt lost his vision right before I discovered we werd going to have a MiniKatt, we are still seeing Drs and trying to get him basic help)

          • demodocus

            *hugs* how’s the adjusting to parenting and blindness going? My Dem’s pretty solid on the latter, except when it comes to parenting, and then he’s an anxious hot mess.

          • Mrs.Katt the Cat

            Thanks. He has now decided to take the state offered rehab, and wants to do woodwork, because he always liked working with his hands and is completely burned on IT. Disability turned us down and I can not convince MrKatt to continue to fight them. Apparently acromatophasia (misspelled) is not sufficient cause of blindness to be blind- even though we now know that was a misdiagnosis. At least we have ruled out a tumor, but are now working with an opto-neurologist to figure out what is going on. He has other neurological symptoms. Like falling suddenly.

            I think he is frustrated all around but doing what he can. He loves MiniKatt, but gets stressed if he has to watch her alone for too long and is worried he will have a bad pain day and won’t be able to care for her while I am at work. That and she discovered fake coughing and happy screams, which freak him out, as he can’t see her expression to tell if they are real or fake. Silly baby.
            We will be fairly isolated at my Moms (think gravel country road 30mins drive from nearest store) and I know that will be hard on him. Now he has the freedom to walk to the store and whatnot, there he will be stuck, but will have daily help with the baby and can do more around the house.
            I’m going to end up being the only full time working adult in a house of 3 adults. Sigh. I keep telling myself that even if *I* won’t get the time with MiniKatt, she will be well taken care of and doted on. My Mom had worked in preschool education her entire life, so it is like having a live in development specialist.

          • demodocus

            that will be tough. They tell me the adjustment to constricted freedom is much harder for teens and adults than for little kids. If it helps, we know 2 totally blind couples and a custodial single father who raised at least 7 kids between ’em. The kids are all doing better than me, lol.

          • Mrs.Katt the Cat

            It does help to hear of other people in similar situations! I have a friend from college who is blind and we met a couple at a local meeting for the Federation of the Blind. I think it helped him, though getting him to go anywhere is tough- we wasn’t the greatest passenger before, now he is a white knuckle rider all the way.

            He does great with her, he really does. Refuses to try bath time until she is older, but other than that we share baby duties. I think it is the stress of all these changes so close together that just gets to him. Both of us, honestly. She’s a bundle of giggles, so we must be doing something right.

          • Roadstergal

            I keep forgetting to mention – they had a blind father on This American Life a little while back telling his stories of trying to get his toddler to understand what his blindness means, and I thought of you…

          • demodocus

            Its tough when the kiddo doesn’t yet realize other people don’t see things from his physical viewing point, never mind the metaphorical type

      • Comrade X

        Ha ha! Here I am deeply suspicious that she is not nearly hawkish enough. (Although I fully accept that she is almost certainly significantly more hawkish than the current POTUS).

        • Comrade X

          But then, I’ve been cheering for the Impossible Fantasy Ticket of Sanders/McCain since the beginning. 🙂

          • Roadstergal

            Ha! That’s as likely a pairing as my Spock/McCoy slash fiction. 🙂

          • linden

            Yeah, spock can do better than James t kirk. All my current love is harry dresden/ john marcone these days.
            And, do you know, there is no hairy bikers (uk cooking and motorcycling celebrities) fanfiction? I looked.

          • Roadstergal

            You need to request that for Yuletide!

            I don’t know the Hairy Bikers. I prefer my bikers tiny and trimmed. 🙂
            http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9200000/Pedrosa-dani-pedrosa-9268554-960-1231.jpg

          • Linden

            Very nice and shiny. 🙂

          • Coyote

            You *are* that Roadstergal? I’ve been wondering for ages.

          • Roadstergal

            *eep*

          • Coyote

            This is delightfully serendipitous; you wrote me something once.

          • Roadstergal

            Was it Yuletide? Do you mind telling me what fic?

          • Coyote

            It wasn’t Yuletide; it was for an e-zine. “Displaced” – an S/Mc “what if?” missing scene. The writing was beautiful.

          • Roadstergal

            Oh, Spiced Peaches! I haven’t thought of that in ages – I should migrate it to AO3. I recently re-watched II and III, and I’m getting back into writing them.

          • Linden

            This crowd is just awesome, and keeps getting better 🙂

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            I always did think Spock and McCoy had more chemistry than Spock and Kirk.

          • Roadstergal

            Totally! Last week, I re-watched STII and III, and a bit of IV. I haven’t seen IV since it was out in theaters, and I didn’t quite catch the first time around how outrageously flirty the “Not in his nature” bit was..

          • Comrade X

            You start thinking desperately when you’re a communist neocon. 🙂

          • attitude devant

            You know that McCain is publicly supporting Trump, right? I know you’re a big fan of McCain and all, but….

          • Comrade X

            I do, and I’m horrified by it.

    • Amazed

      I’ll join you in this effort. Dear God, a world dominated by Trump, Putin, and Erdogan?

      • Linden

        The last… I now can’t read about my home country anymore, for my own sanity. I listen to the experiences of my friends and family, and that is as much as i can handle right now.

        • Amazed

          Oh my, you’re from THERE? I can’t even imagine. I was sitting in front of the TV shaking my head and wondered how on earth such a thing could happen and could it become any worse. Turned out it could.

          Hugs.

          Suddenly, our own bully wannabe looks like a naughty child in the playground.

          • linden

            Thank you. Yes, that’s where I’m from. My family is still there. The last terrorist bomb happened 200 yards from where I lived as a teenager, and where my mother had gone to feed the stray cats that morning. Tanks burning on roads i’d take to uni each day. Every picture horrifying, every picture familiar.

            I think a lot of people, if they ever see pictures or footage from places where terrorism and political strife are happening, it’s just some people you know? Some guys shouting incomprehensible things. Broken glass. Sirens blaring. It’s different when you know the place, you can understand what that guy said to his friend, hear the horror in their voices.

          • Amazed

            Yes, just some people. And when they do acknowledge them, it’s to even elevate them to the Noble Savage status, or say that they reproduce irresponsibly – I’m sure you know the posts I’m talking about. I am not sure if you (since you’re, or used to be kind of neighbour) and I should be flattered or offended.

            A few years ago, my mom took me to Istanbul as a very delayed present on the occasion of my graduation. It’s an amazing city. I think I was most impressed with Hagia Sophia and the fact that 550 years after the conquest of Constantinople, the Christian paintings were still there, as good as new. They hadn’t been destroyed. Well, except for the part where the crusaders had erased a part of the Jesus, John and Mary fresk on the ceiling with their spears in 1204. Since they couldn’t take it, they decided to vent their rant upon it.

          • Linden

            Istanbul is a bit more foreign to me. It is beautiful and busy and completely mad!

            I had a friend wHo had to live in istanbul. Her father could not be separated from the sea, and it was *this* sea he couldn’t be parted from…

            Btw, been shopping at the international food store. My little son put away a scary amount of your kashkaval cheese. He’d been refusing all dairy products for months. I am SO HAPPY!

          • Amazed

            Try to let it warm up a little out of fridge. Fridge doesn’t change taste of regular cheese – in fact, I prefer it straight from the fridge – but room temperature does wonders for kashkaval. Just leave it on the table for a few minutes and have him taste a bit. He might like it better this way.

            ETA: Do you know if the story about the architect Sinan’s two mosques for Princess Mihrimah is true? I was told that he projected them in a way that had them constantly lit: the moment the sun went down over the first one, the moon rose over the second. A great gift for a princess whose name meant Sun and Moon.

          • Linden

            Re chese: will do… with what’s left of it. Must get moarrr.
            Re sinan, i have no idea, but that guy was amazing.

          • Amazed

            When you get it, try to bake some over a loaf of bread. Not much, just until the cheese moltens a little. The greatest sandwich ever! Some put meat in between but I NEVER spoil a perfectly good sandwich like this.

          • Daleth

            I was told that he projected them in a way that had them constantly lit: the moment the sun went down over the first one, the moon rose over the second.

            That could work at certain moon phases, but certainly not all the time. At the full Moon, for instance, the moon rises when the sun sets. At the quarter moon, the moon is high in the sky (like where the sun is at noon) when the sun sets. But at the second quarter moon the moon sets like six hours before the sun does…

            Anyway long story short, a building could be designed so that it was constantly lit during the full moon, and lit for hours after sunset at the quarter moon, but not so it was constantly lit all month long.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Istanbul is a bit more foreign to me. It is beautiful and busy and completely mad!?

            Ever since they changed the name, it’s been going crazy.

            Can’t go back…but it’s nobody’s business but the Turks.

          • Linden

            The joke in Turkey is that God created Istanbul, a city of amazing beauty in an amazing location, with amazing climate and food. The angels asked Him, ” Aren’t you giving this city a bit of an unfair advantage?” He replied, “Don’t worry, I’m giving it to the Turks.” 🙂
            I will say this. It has all those advantages, but *never* plan to drive once there, if you go to visit. You risk a crash or a heart attack if you’re not used to it.

          • Amazed

            Hehe, memories! At one moment, the driver of our tourist bus looked at our guide and told her a few words, whereupon she promptly shepherded us out – about 5o people or so – and we went on foot happily. Were we hot? Certainly. Were we glad that she took us out? You can bet. After crossing a few lines of frozen traffic, avoiding other tourists and locals, when we stopped at the first block, I looked back. The bus hadn’t moved at all. Didn’t look like it would, either. Ever.

          • Roadstergal

            I was just at a They Might Be Giants concert at the end of July… of course they did that one.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Make a little birdhouse in your soul…

            (actually, I refer to Particle Man all the time in my chemistry classes … “If you were particle man, what would you see?”)

          • Roadstergal

            “Or does the water get him instead?” I love that.

          • Megan

            Personally, we are fans of “The Sun is a Mass of Incandescent Gas” (or if you prefer, “the sun is a miasma of incandescent plasma”).

          • Amy

            My kids and I love that whole album, but our favorite on it is Meet the Elements.

            Course, as MA residents, our all time favorite TMBG song is hands down Wicked Little Critta.

          • Megan

            See? This explains why I feel so at home here. I need offer no explanation for a TMBG song title, a Monty Python reference, a Hitchhiker’s quote, G&S lyrics, and so on. It’s so nice…

          • Nick Sanders

            Plasma may be more accurate, but they the former song has a much better beat. I can’t stand the tune to the latter.

          • Roadstergal

            Yeah, the revision is more accurate, but the original is a better song.

          • Who?

            I hope your family stay safe.

          • Linden

            Thank you, they are ok at the moment

        • Roadstergal

          : My two nephews took flight from Egypt and most of their family a few years ago in order to live in Texas with their mom. It’s all kinds of bad (although I’m honestly just happy to have them closer).

        • demodocus

          *hugs* Good luck to your family and friends

    • Amy

      Heck, I live in one of the bluest of blue states, so my votes in a lot of elections don’t matter much. Our Republicans are generally to the left of Democrats in other states.

      And I’m still turning up and voting. I do live in either the most or second-most conservative county in my state, so my vote makes a difference in the down-ballot races.

  • mythsayer

    Just to clarify, Jefferson and Adams were actually really good friends, socially. That doesn’t change the import of the election.

    • Amy Tuteur, MD

      If I recall correctly, they became good friends long after the election when they started a long correspondence.

      • mythsayer

        I thought so, too, but Hamilton (the musical) has made me reevaluate a lot of what I thought about American history and I’ve been doing a lot of research lately. They were friendly for quite a long time, according to the website for Monticello.

        https://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/john-adams

        • Amy

          I have to say I kind of love how Hamilton portrays Jefferson. He’s always gotten such a pass.

  • demodocus

    i can’t help being reminded about that Weimar Republic textbook, especially the later chapters, since Thanksgiving. i do not draw such comparisons lightly.

  • Amy Tuteur, MD

    “Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?” After the assassination of Thomas a Becket, Henry II insisted he had been joking. No one believed him, either.

    • Amazed

      Respect, Dr Amy, if you please. At least Henry II was a good, almost great ruler. Donald Duck sounds like neither.

      On the second thought, apparently Henry was charming. He even convinced his mother’s rival, King Stephen, to pay to the men he had led to his failed quest to take England from Stephen. Trump must have something if so many are ready to overlook his glaring, DANGEROUS faults.

    • attitude devant

      Are you telling me that Trump’s going to have to go to an HRC memorial, strip to his skivvies, and pray to show penance?

      • Roadstergal

        Oh god, I was just about to have lunch.

      • Amazed

        Not the stripping part! Please! With the media up and all around, I’ll have to watch it all the time I am not seeing OUR own local goon of Prime Minister.

        • Linden

          Do *not* tell me you’re Canadian. I will flip all the tables. Justin trudeau’s abs have been a shining beacon of hope in these dark political times. 🙂

          • Amazed

            Hehe, no. In fact, you used to be my neighbour. I don’t mean I’ve had to suffer our Prime Minister in all his naked glory. I just mean that he’s everywhere in the news. He loves playing the media star. Sometimes, I’m afraid that when I let the water in my kitchen flow, I’ll find him in my sink.

          • Linden

            We have lots of neighbours, and many troubled ones. Hope you’re from one that is nominally safe

          • Amazed

            Thank you. I am, indeed. Anyway, our attempt to give something to the world is Putin’s yeswoman to head the UN. A lady who wept huge tears for the murdered cartoonists at Charlie Hebdo, yet had this to say about her father (a leading Communist who had personally taken part (and later bragged about it) in the murder of one of the most talented cartoonists here who had mocked Communists), “I’m proud of my dad… Well, such were the times… He fought for what he believed…”

            Nice, eh? Fortunately, she’s sinking down.

          • Linden

            I cannot understand “my country, right or wrong.” How can things ever improve, how can we learn from mistakes if we do not confront them?

          • Amazed

            Most people can’t. But our media are scarily dependent on the government. People don’t support her at all but TVs, sites, radios and so on won’t shut up at all about how we should.

            The problem is, blind patriotism is the last refuge of those who are desperate to keep their power but are failing on things like economical development, population growth and so on.

          • Linden

            Also, blind patriotism is just so easy. Not even the posibility of doubt, of discomfort. It’s like a pill. Take daily, never suffer from cognitive dissonance again.

          • Amazed

            That’s why it’s so convenient. The fault never lies with the good fatherling who’s taking care of his people. We would have been doing great if the evil Americans/Chinese/Little Green Men weren’t meddling!

            That’s the sort of people good fatherling likes to have voting. Cognitive dissonance non-sufferers.

  • namaste863

    This is totally o/t, but HAPPY OLYMPICS, EVERYBODY!! Best of luck to all the athletes.

    • Roadstergal

      …and please stop the cupping, Olympians. Find a less ludicrous and/or damaging placebo…

      • Linden

        YES.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        Yeah, it’s really tempering my admiration for Phelps’s accomplishments. Totally amazed at what he has done, but that cupping shit? Barf.

      • MaineJen

        Seriously. How ridiculous.

    • OttawaAlison

      I wish Trump would go on mute during the Olympics.

      • Roadstergal

        He has no Mute button.

        • kfunk937

          I’ve at times been reminded of Phineas Gage’s reported complete lack of social inhibition, but there’s neither evidence of a catastrophic injury to the prefrontal cortex here, nor does it appear he was ever any different.

          I think that the chilling and thoughful New Yorker piece that included a long interview with his ghostwriter makes a good case for NPD and/or BPD, though.

          (Apologies for armchair/internet Dxs. I don’t normally indulge in this, nor Weimar flashbacks, lightly.)

          • Megan

            Definitely some cluster B pathology going on there…

          • kfunk937

            Very much so. I think that APD is also a strong contender, personally.

            This is not a ringing endorsement for someone to have The Football. Or anything else.

  • Megan

    And might I add a big old “WTF??” to the coward, Paul Ryan… (Sorry, feeling fired up today!)

  • Megan

    He is a scary individual and threatens all of that which we hold dear as Americans. He is not an aberration in the Republican party; he is what they have created by encouraging the rise of the Tea Party and by encouraging fear and hate for political gain. The Republican party of today is not what it was even a generation ago. Donald Trump is only unique in that he comes out and says directly what many of the Republican establishment believe but will not admit. This election is so important and it will be decided on voter turnout. It has far-reaching consequences in the SCOTUS, in our standing internationally and in our stability domestically. I personally am proud to be voting for Hillary and will vote straight blue on November 8th.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      I agree, Trump is the logical conclusion of the direction the Republican party has been heading in for a long time now. They created this monster.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        I kind of disagree. The problem is that the GOP didn’t “create” anyone. The only thing they created was a void, with no direction into how it should be filled.

        That’s what happens when your strategy consists solely of trying to tear down your opponent. If you want to see how to beat Hillary Clinton, look at Obama. He beat her by selling himself, not trying to tear her down. His message was “Yes We Can.” The republican’s message has been “No She Can’t.” In the meantime, they never focused on providing someone who can.

        There are no leaders left in the GOP. Ted Cruz is not a leader, he’s an obstructionist. Everyone recognizes that. Dick Lugar was a great public servant. I didn’t agree with him on everything, but he worked hard to help lead the country. And they kicked him out. Heck, even John Boehner had leadership skills, and they run him out, too. If they had focused on actual leadership instead of obstruction, maybe they would have a candidate who could be supportable.

        They certainly didn’t create Donald Trump, but they created the leadership void that let him play at the table.

        • Nick Sanders

          The problem is they are running on a message of “Government doesn’t work, and can’t work.” And the only way to keep selling that message once you become the government is to keep the government from doing anything productive. And so, obstructionism becomes the order of the day.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            “Government doesn’t work, and can’t work.”

            Back in the day when Rachel Maddow was just on Air America, she was pointing this out about the Bush administration. They made the claim that Government doesn’t work, and then put people in positions to make sure it didn’t. The head of the EPA was anti-EPA, for example.

            She had a whole list of examples where they did that.

          • Nick Sanders

            The current head of the Science and Space committee, or maybe it was the climate committee I can’t recall off the top of my head, is a Young Earth Creationist. I’m pretty sure it’s the Space committee, because I remember NASA being involved in the story somehow.

            Anyway, I wish I could claim credit for that observation about their philosophy and actions, but it was pointed out to me on a politics forum I go to.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            I think it is the House Science committee.

            I have been advocating for the National Academy of Science to get more involved in this, because it is more and more getting out of control. I think the Academy needs to provide “Science Grades” to lawmkers, just like every other advocacy group does.

            When the NAS comes out and says, “This lawmaker gets an F in science,” what are they going to say? The Academy doesn’t know anything about science?

          • Megan

            “It’s rigged!”

          • Amy

            That’s exactly what they’ll say. Look at all the right-wing Catholic Americans who for YEARS completely disregarded church teachings on everything except abortion and sexual behavior. Pope Francis comes out with statements about xenophobia, the death penalty, and pre-emptive war being against church teaching and not even Christian, and Hannity and O’Reilly respond with, “Well, what does the Pope know?”

          • Monkey Professor for a Head

            Have you ever watched the show Yes Minister? I suspect it’s incredibly accurate.

          • Megan

            “Government doesn’t work, and can’t work.”
            It also fosters the belief that a “non-establishment” candidate is a better choice. Add the encouragement of fear and hate and you get Donald Trump as your nominee.

      • Comrade X

        I blame the GOP for The Rise Of Trump about 50%. There is no doubt that they have been actively courting wingnuts since Reagan, because wingnuts get off their arses and VOTE, and get their friends and neighbours and aunties and dogs to get off their arses and vote, and now they are reaping the orange-toupeed whirlwind.

        However, I blame the mealy-mouthed “mainstream” on the centre-left for the other half of it. There IS a problem (*globally*, not just in America, not even primarily in America) with Radical Political Islam (aka Islamism). The mainstream are loath to mention it. The “left” would chew their own right arms off before mentioning or naming it. When you leave it to the nutcases to be the only ones who will “dare” to mention the elephant in the room, you are actively pushing people into the arms of nutcases. When the only people willing to stand up to one flavour of Fascist is another flavour of Fascist, one guaranteed outcome is victory for Fascism. If either flavour of Fascism ends up dominating the lives of our children and grandchildren because we had our heads too far into the sand to get our shit together, I will never forgive our generation and its “tolerant” “moderates”.

        • Roadstergal

          I live with someone who agrees with you 100%, and cannot have a real conversation with him about it.

          I don’t mind discussing it, but I do mind to a great extent discussing it without nuance. Eg, as an atheist, I find muslim moderates to be an important force against extremists (ditto the christians), and am not opposed to being accommodating in the interest of that end. I find a great deal of evidence there’s a lot more involved than just religion, and that the issues of poverty, powerlessness, and other clusterfuckery in the region are a critical factor that is being completely ignored by the “Say Radical Islamic Terrorism!” brigade.

          I mention this often and my arm is intact, although my eardrums are not.

          • Comrade X

            I am happy to discuss it with nuance, and I apologize if my comment came over as un-nuanced. I am a fairly verbose person, and I was trying to be at least a LITTLE brief. 🙂

            And I just deleted paragraphs and paragraphs of stuff from this comment because it was getting so damn lengthy and I had only just started with my first point. 🙂

            I am Katya Segura on Facebook if you want to add me and continue the discussion somewhere where I/we won’t be derailing a completely separate discussion. See you on the Interwebz. 🙂

          • Roadstergal

            No derailings here! And I am fully in favor of Star Trek in general and Alexander Sidding in particular (it still feels weird to type that, I’m old enough that I grew up seeing his original name).

          • Comrade X

            I’m a Picard girl myself. Your surname is PERFECT for Facebook political arguments, btw.

          • Roadstergal

            I grew up on TOS, so Spock, McCoy, and the gang were my faves. LaForge from TNG, and almost everybody on DS9…

          • Comrade X

            Siddig el Fadil is FAR too good-looking for my tastes. He’s almost supernaturally handsome.

          • Roadstergal

            That’s one of the reasons I like Garak. Utterly unintimidated by how pretty Bashir is.

          • demodocus

            But do Cardassians view pretty the same way we do?

          • Comrade X

            They have a real slash chemistry thing going on as well, those two. Very fun to watch.

        • Linden

          I agree that there is basically no “left” in the usa, but i can’t agree with your “both sides do it” approach.

          Maybe because my country had to prevent a coup, and the response has been hundreds of schools closed, thousands of teachers suspended, journalists arrested, freedom of speech completely curtailed, I’ve got a different bar for what I call Fascism. No. One side in the usa is clearly playing from that songbook, and nobody can deny it. The other has massive flaws, and has done some really appalling things, but i can’t call them fascists.

          • Comrade X

            I’m sorry, Linden, I think I must have failed to make myself clear. The accommodation with “fascism” of which I am accusing the “left” (or what passes for the “left” these days) is the denial and appeasement of Radical Political Islamism. I am saying that I consider Radical Political Islamism to be a form of fascism, and that the “Left” ‘s refusal to get serious about it is pushing many people into the hands of the more traditional “far right”. It is happening in Europe too, very very much so (far more than in the United States). It is a genuinely frightening thing.

          • Linden

            Ah, i see. i certainly have opinions about radical political islamism. In the end, though, the majority of people harmed by it will be nonradical muslims. In their home countries and abroad, where racist backlash will have them suffer, just when they think they might be safe.

          • Linden

            in the uk, it is not really the left appeasing radical islam, though, is it? There was no wrong our friends in SA could do that george osborne wouldn’t be happy to ignore, for the sake of military equipment deals. :-/

          • Comrade X

            Linden, are you from Turkey? Please stay safe.

          • Linden

            I live in the uk. My family and friends are back there. :,-(

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            I…hope that Trump, if elected, would not go there. I am not confident of that hope, however. He has, in so many words, said that Muslims should have to have a “special ID”. He has also talked about how he would make it impossible for the media to say “mean things” about him. He might not be willing to go there or able to go there, but Trump is at least playing with some genuine fascist ideas.

        • The Computer Ate My Nym

          Speaking of Islam, I would point out that The Economist rates a Trump presidency as a greater threat to the world than a major act of jihadist terrorism.

          I don’t see how the “mainstream” is loathe to mention radical Islam. It’s the goto thing to blame for anything that goes wrong in the US, particularly a mass shooting. Until the media finds that the shooter had some other motive, then the whole thing just sort of disappears. (See the Muenchen shooter, for example.)

          I actually see right wing Islamic terrorism and right wing Christian terrorism as much the same thing: entitled people losing a little of their privilege and lashing out in response. Islamic terrorists aren’t, by and large, Syrian refugees. They’re bored Saudi frat boys and ex-baathists looking for an excuse to commit violence. Sort of like the white male Christians in the US that like to go shooting up movie theaters, malls, night clubs, etc because they feel upset that they don’t have ALL the political power any more.

          One thing almost all terrorists have in common: Y chromosomes. But that really is taboo to talk about.

        • Amy

          Since Reagan? Try since 1968 and the Southern Strategy.

      • Charybdis

        *peeks out cautiously*

        I tend to think that those supporting Trump aren’t really supporting HIM. A whole lot of people are sick and tired of the intransigence of both sides, the gridlock in Washington and the complete and utter dysfunction of the Legislative, Judicial and Executive branches of government and their inability to work together. Trump represents a true outsider, someone who doesn’t work “with the system” or “in the system” and this is appealing to some. He doesn’t toe the line, nor does he fall in like a good soldier to push the party’s agenda. This confounds the leaders and media, and it seems as if they can’t /won’t grasp that idea or understand how the unwashed masses would find it appealing or agreeable.

        Now, I think both candidates are equally odious and completely unpalatable choices. I don’t know what I’m going to do come November.

        *scurries back under my rock*

        • I keep hearing people say this. “They’re both just as bad”. How? What? Why? There’s just no comparison!

          On the one hand, you have a fascist (and I do say that with no malicious intent or exaggeration). He has supported the imprisonment of journalists who criticize him. He has called for violence repeatedly (in rallies against protesters, and recently with the assassination threat/joke). He has repudiated the First Amendment by calling for the deportation of people based on religion. He has called the electoral system rigged in an attempt to undermine the democracy of the US. He has threatened riots if he loses. He has stood on braggadocio and fear, but no actual policies, when riling up his base. He has promised everything on economics but, when pushed, would only say he would cut taxes on the rich which is a policy that has repeatedly failed every time it’s been tried. Oh yeah, and he’s a sexist, racist, generally omnibigoted individual.

          On the other hand, you have a flawed but solid candidate. She has been a senator and Secretary of State under her former opponent’s time in office. She has detailed policy proposals for numerous solutions to numerous problems- I may not agree with every single one of them, but I will give her props for having actual policies that are reality-based. She’s been around for over 25 years, most of it under constant attack, and in spite of being the subject of millions of dollars worth of investigations, never been found guilty of a crime or serious ethics violation. She has repeatedly pointed to poverty alleviation, economic growth, education, and women’s rights being high on her priority list. I don’t like her foreign policy nearly as much – I think it’s too aggressive – but she didn’t ask about using nukes as a real option either.

          So please, tell me why a candidate who would be an imperfect president is at all comparable to a candidate who is literally tearing at the fabric of our democracy.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Trump apparently doesn’t have a clue how government works. He has actually suggested that the way to cut the deficit is to short-change the bond holders. It might work for him to declare bankruptcy and screw creditors, but that doesn’t work for your country.

            Then he suggested just printing more money. And this guy is supposed to know something about economics? He is suggesting to throw the country into out of control inflation!

            Then he had a big idea to rebuild our infrastructure. I’m all for that. But when he was asked who would pay for it, he said, “People. Investors.”

            Seriously. He suggested that “investors” would pay to rebuild our infrastructure! And he didn’t say it would be toll roads and toll bridges. So how does he expect a return on that investment?

            It’s clear, he doesn’t have a clue how the government works.

            That’s what you get when you want someone “different.” You get ignorance.

          • Nick Sanders

            He has actually suggested that the way to cut the deficit is to short-change the bond holders.

            Apart from violating the 14th Amendment, that’d be a great way to ensure that no one ever buys another United States bond of any sort ever again. Hello perpetual economic collapse!

  • Linden

    As a uk resident, i can’t stop checking 538 daily. I look at the polls plus forecast, and I am appalled there is even a 20% chance of him becoming potus.

    Please, people, don’t stay at home, even if you live in a solid state. A sign must be sent to the parties: never allow this again. Never allow this rhetoric, never make excuses for the indefensible.

    • Roadstergal

      I live in a fairly reliably blue state, but I will be turning out. To vote down-ticket as well as for POTUS.

      • The Computer Ate My Nym

        Given the craziness of this election, not to mention the recent “Brexit” vote (forecast as 85% likely to result in a “stay” decision), I don’t think any state can be considered a safe state. Vote, vote, vote!

        • Megan

          Exactly. Opinion polls don’t matter. It only matters who actually shows up on November 8th.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            Yep. And who gets to vote on 8th November. Voter suppression laws, dirty tricks at the polls, and outright fraud are all possibilities. I wish the UN would monitor our elections.

          • MI Dawn

            That would be great. Do they have to be invited? Or would they come in just because there’s so much danger in this one?

          • nomofear

            Can you imagine the conspiracy blowhards’ reactions if that happened?

        • MI Dawn

          Yeah, I loved the interview with the guy who voted to leave, then said he didn’t mean it, he figured there would be enough votes to stay!

        • Linden

          The betting markets were on 60/40 for staying, the day before, and Brexit still happened. Please do not underestimate people voting against all common sense.

        • Comrade X

          I know this isn’t the subject of this thread, but as you brought it up….I voted Leave, I’m not an idiot, I’m not an ignoramus, and I’m most certainly not a racist or a xenophobe (I’m actually a dual-national with another EU country, France).

          A lot of people ON BOTH SIDES of the UK Plebiscite voted emotionally and without a reasonable understanding of the issues. The idiots on the “Leave” side were almost certainly both more NUMEROUS and more EGREGIOUSLY IGNORANT, but please remember that the whole thing *is* a *little* more complicated than “Stay – smart/decent, Leave – stupid/arsehole”.

          • The Computer Ate My Nym

            Although I do have strong feelings about the Brexit issue and they don’t agree with yours*, I only brought it up as an example of polls being dead wrong, not (consciously) as an example of voters acting crazy. My apologies for the implication. Though the number of people googling “EU membership” AFTER voting still gets me.

            *However, I’m a US-American so my opinion on whether the UK stays in the EU or not counts for all squat.

          • Comrade X

            Ah, I see. Yes, pre-electoral polling seems, if anything, to be getting worse.

          • Linden

            Yes, I sympathise with you. I have family (by marriage) who voted leave. Except for the fact that vote leave campaign was taken over by blatant liars who kept insisting 350-110=350. They are now running the project.
            *None* of them spelt out exactly what vision of leaving there would be, and how it would be better than staying.
            The EU never has been above reproach, but now we’ve lost every chance of influencing this institution in any positive way.
            Also, we now have the HS that was just *dying* to get rid of the Human rights act as PM. She who gleefully demonised immigrants along with the rest of the Tories so they could get a majority out of it. Labour is currently a shambles. Norway is saying they don’t want us in the EEA. Hey, perhaps we can stay in the customs union along with Turkey!

          • Linden

            What I’m trying to say is… we really got a really bad outcome. Boris Johnson is *Foreign Secretary*. o.0

          • Comrade X

            Farage is a pathetic little man who just ironically “succeeded” his way into the permanent obscurity that was always waiting for him.

            Anyone who believed that he had the authority to make spending commitments to the NHS deserves all the mockery they can get. Most voters on the “Leave” side probably couldn’t even *spell* “Schengen”, far less tell you what it was and whether the UK is part of it. And the bona fide racists (as opposed to “mere” xenophobes) who voted “Leave” in some kind of garbled incoherent atavistic cry to “make Britain white again” are probably too ill-informed (in my opinion) to vote at all (yes, I know that makes me sound like a bit of a fascist. I know. But REALLY. Make Britain white again, indeed.)

            Having said that, most of the “Remain” voters I know personally did not seem to know or understand the difference between an International body and a Supranational one. Far less tell you which the EU is. A lot of them had a very vague fuzzy idea of “togetherness” and “cooperation” and “tolerance” which fitted well with their own personal self-image as young-ish University-educated decent modern people. And that wasn’t the issue in question either.

            So, in other words, a complete clusterfuck of confusion and ignorance all round.

        • Valerie

          I have friends who think it’s “safe” to vote 3rd party because our state is blue enough. Nope.

          • demodocus

            God, i keep hoping to change my husband’s mind about voting for the libertarian. (He doesn’t want to vote for Clinton because she won’t repeal the health care act)

          • Valerie

            I wish Jill Stein would just drop out.

          • Roadstergal

            That’s because the WiFi scrambled your brains. Wake up, sheeple!

      • MI Dawn

        Yup, me too!

    • Megan

      I live in perhaps one of the biggest battleground states this election, Pennsylvania. I will not be staying home. I will also be sending text reminders to everyone I can think of to go vote and will give rides to the polls if need be. This presidential election is about my children’s future and I am too pissed (and scared) to even consider staying home.

      • Linden

        THANK YOU. This is so important for your children, and for children (and adults) all over the world.

      • demodocus

        Next state over, us too.

        • Megan

          I’m assuming you mean Ohio. If so, I think your state may actually be even more important. I think Ohio is a big time toss-up. Glad you’ll be voting blue!

          • demodocus

            i was of two minds while other candidates were in the running, since i don’t like close relatives both being president. But Cruz and Trump were both on my no-way list.

          • demodocus

            Clinton just has the standard level of politician misdeeds; i don’t think the Benghazi thing was her fault and as for the rest, she’s been in the public eye as long as i can remember.

  • Trixie

    I completely agree with all of this.