There’s a simple thing that every mother can do to keep her baby as healthy as possible. That’s why we should have a ten step hospital based program to support it.
No, it’s not breastfeeding; it’s vaccination, which saves a thousand times more lives in practice than breastfeeding ever could in theory.
[pullquote align=”right” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]No mother would refuse to vaccinate if she only understood the benefits and got the proper support.[/pullquote]
Therefore, it is a thousand times more important to promote vaccination than to promote breastfeeding. No mother would refuse to do it if she only understood the benefits and got the proper support. That’s why I propose an immediate overhaul of the Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative to promote vaccination instead of breastfeeding.
The Ten Steps to Successful Vaccination are:
- Have a written vaccination policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
- Train all health care staff in the skills necessary to implement this policy.
- Inform all pregnant women about the benefits of vaccination.
- Insist that every mother sign a vaccine contract that emphasizes that anything other than full vaccination on the CDC schedule threatens baby’s health.
- Mandate frequent visits by a vaccination consultant to provide constant support for vaccination.
- Help mothers initiate all recommended injections within one hour of birth.
- Show mothers how to obtain vaccinations even if they are separated from their infants.
- Accept no refusal to vaccinate unless medically indicated.
- Encourage vaccination on demand by the pediatrician.
- Foster the establishment of vaccination support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or birth center.
Wait, what? Some mothers think there are legitimate reasons not to vaccinate their babies? There are no legitimate reasons; it’s just a sign that they haven’t received enough vaccination support from hospital personnel, their peers and society at large.
Wait, what? Some mothers think that vaccination harms their infants? Who cares what they think? Public health officials have spoken on the issue of vaccination and mother’s observations of their own infants are irrelevant.
Wait, what? Some mothers think this is an issue of personal freedom? It most certainly is not. Vaccinating a child does not simply protect that child, but it provides a measurable benefit to society.
Lack of peer support for vaccination is a serious problem in and of itself. There are webpages and Facebook groups that encourage parents not to vaccinate or to diverge from the CDC schedule. Such webpages and Facebook groups must be ruthlessly suppressed along with public shaming of anyone who doesn’t support routine childhood vaccination.
Let’s face it: those who vaccinate according to the CDC schedule love their children more than those who do not. Only a lazy, selfish mother would listen to anti-vaccine quacks instead of the CDC.
I even have a motto for the NEW Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative:
Breastfed Is Good,
Fed Is Better, but
Vaccinated is BEST!
Why waste time promoting breastfeeding when we could be promoting vaccination and saving far more lives?
Good site! I really love how it is easy on my eyes and the data are well written.
Website :- Ac technician in nagpur
There are no “poisons” in vaccines. Immune system disorders are NOT caused by vaccines, so stop lying about it. Your child can be infectious for measles 4 days before a rash shows up. You can choose not to vaccinate, but you do not have any right to put others at risk for diseases. You are not special. You are not entitled. And vaccinated children are not putting your little snowflake at risk, either, because not one outbreak of disease has been caused by shedding. You continue to ignore the mountains of evidence that show vaccines are safe.
Where to start even with such a sequence of bs?
You do realize though that your daughter profits massively from other people „poisoning“ their children? The doctor put their patients first by protecting them from you harming them.
I doubt ME gives a moment’s thought to anyone but herself and the special little snowflake/s she has spawned. Why on earth was she taking the poor child to an actual doctor, rather than one of the woo-meisters generally preferred by the anti-vax crowd? Was she looking for the martyr points?
There’s no stupid like anti-vax stupid. Thanks for dropping in to demonstrate it.
She has been sent masses of evidence and continues to lie about vaccines on public pages.
Fed is the bare minimum of what a child deserves. Vaccinated is not best above nourishment, You’ve lost your marbles, I suggest you go find them before writing another blog, confusing other mothers whom have also lost their marbles and believe the things you write.
She is comparing the benefits of vaccination and breastfeeding, not feeding.
Indeed, fed is best. And this can be done with either breastmilk or formula or even a mix of the two. The point is: The health benefits of vaccination (vs not vaccinating) are way superior than those of breastfeeding (vs formula feeding)
Hence, if you really care about the well being of babies, people should spend more time promoting vaccination than breastfeeding. Doing so would save more lives and result in healthier babies.
ha ha ha!
Please, do find evidence that properly prepared formula has killed more babies than vaccine preventable disease.
Find evidence that properly prepared formula has killed even one single term infant.
”properly” prepared formula [leaving out nestle in the 3rd world] killing less than infections diseases [which ones]. the bar is low!
You know, truthfully, this article is a BENEFIT to anti-vaxxers. If you don’t know what to expect from your doctors, how you’ll get bullied, what rights you have and whether they are limited in any way…if you don’t know, here are ALL of the points of reference for your research. There is not one single sentence, not one line that isn’t such a stunning violation of indivual rights and liberty, and I understand exactly why. If all one learns about vaccines on the way to a medical degree is relative to the short white part of a pinky fingernail compared to the rest of the body of science, and if it’s absolutely nothing more than “vaccines have saved the world, vaccines = gooood,” then there are 2 definitions I can imagine to define this pitiful doc for such confident bloviating dangerous, demonstrably blatant lies and absurd disregard for freedom and liberty…it can’t even be the money…it’s willful ignorance or abject stupidity.
If you’re gonna pull a Godwin, consider spelling the names correctly.
Ha!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/279ccfcb095954439622d0822d7e590af354f1b210b2bb5b397276593fc1f6e1.jpg
You are an idiot savant, is that all you’ve got, your silly memes?
Bahahahaha!!! It’s PARODY!!!!! Get it???
You’re right… and I fell for it. But rereading this twice, it’s obvious. No one can be THAT stupid!
What a disgrace you are to your profession but more so to women and mothers. Do you recall your Hippocratic Oath to FIRST DO NO HARM? I suppose in your case, we can call it the Hypocritical Oath. You plainly disregard the observations of parents who have witnessed the changes and regression in their children first-hand, calling for public shaming when our concerns are voiced. Many babies do not even survive their multiple vaccine load, succumbing to the poisons injected into their bodies that medical “professionals” deem acceptable~ even though they are not allowed in building materials! Vaccines are the cause of many “SIDS” deaths that should be called VIDS- Vaccine-Induced Death Syndrome! Babies are found unresponsive with blood, fluid, or foam oozing from the mouth, nose, and even eyes or ears. In most cases, the infant had received vaccines within hours or days; however, they are VERY rarely listed in the death report.
The actual vaccine inserts that are warnings FROM THE MANUFACTURERS that *SIDS* and ~Autism~ are known side effects, also warn:
THIS VACCINE IS TO BE GIVEN ALONE!! These shots have never been tested TOGETHER for safety, yet the schedule packs them in with 8 at once in an infant that may only weigh 10 lbs at two months and even YOU have stated that any deviation from the schedule is a “threat to the baby.” They are also not tested for mutagenesis, carcinogenesis, nor fertility or birth defect outcomes! How you can go on boasting about their safety is questionable at best.
The hundreds of thousands of parents who are alarmed about vaccines are not ignorant nor are we uneducated. On the contrary, we actually know more about vaccines than most doctors since doctors are bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies, even receiving training and text books authored by big pharma… I have been studying vaccine injuries for 15 years now, and natural medicine for 24 years. Lots of college, but one interesting course was Communicable Diseases. The media and people like you are terrorists. Simple word that uses inflated fear tactics to create unreasonable fright about a rather benign illnesses when there are THOUSANDS of actual terrifying pathogens out there. However, “Vaccine Preventable Diseases” top the charts of terror, instilling fear and misinformation about mild childhood illnesses. No one has died from Measles in over a decade nor “Polio” in over 35 years. (Untrue, as it is still around but renamed). But shots KILL and injure many more each year than the illnesses they do not even guarantee immunity for.
Aside from belittling and demeaning parents with direct experience in losing a child to death or Autism, you minimize the effects of breastfeeding, the one very best way to protect your newborn with everything you’re immune to naturally. Mothers’ milk is created at each feeding according to these infant’s immediate needs, and if you truly believe pushing vaccines is more important than pushing nursing, then you really HAVE disgraced the Hippocratic Oath.
Please, if you truly believe this hype, learn something new. Watch Vaxxed, in which a Senior CDC Scientist admits fully the cover-up of the Autism caused by MMR. It has always been true, they just buried it. Knowing this, and knowing what we have seen in our own children, you should either resign working with children or be honest with yourself that you have LOTS to learn. The TRUTH to learn! Otherwise, you’re a huge disappointment and generally RUDE person. It’s people like you that make people not trust doctors!
My two older kids were vaxxed until o witnessed am MMR reaction that nearly killed my 4-yr-old. He also nearly died after birth, the Vitamin K shot and vaccine did him in, we were very lucky! They were both sick all their lives, colds, infections, skin problems, mental illness… My second two, unvaxxed, are both perfectly healthy. My 4-yr-old has never had a sick visit to a doctor, never even had antibiotics. She has the intellect and vocabulary of an adult! Your notions are outdated by roughly EIGHTEEN YEARS when Dr Wakefield was wrongly accused of errors and inaccuracies in his Autism/gut link. Here’s to science and revelations and anecdotes outweighing coincidences!!
Did you read all the comments? All your points were addressed by all the regular commenters here.
And my first son is fully vaxxed, breastfeed for years, a lot ill with colds ear infections antibiotics…. speeks like an adult since he is 2.5 years old. High IQ. Really lazy at school but still no problems following the teachers. Reads 1 Harry Potter in 2-3 days at age 8.
My third baby is fully vaxxed, still breastfed at age 2 now, almost not ill compared to his older siblings, but speaks like a baby compared to the other two. But than again, he sings since he is 13 months old, and even strangers can recognise his melodies…
doesn’t everybody read 2000 comments before comment? did you?
She’s been popping in since the count was much lower, so I’d guess yes. I have.
Nah. I ALWAYS skip yours.
Marcie Ellyn,
You’ve been had.
“My 4-yr-old has never had a sick visit to a doctor, never even had
antibiotics. She has the intellect and vocabulary of an adult!”
You need to meet more adults.
Well if that post of Marcie Ellyn’s is an example of her understanding of adult communication, I’d have to agree with you.
What is it with these folks and wall-o-text?
I’d call them prolix and anti-vax…
It’s the ALL CAPS that gets me. Lowercase obviously indicates a lack of conviction, but all caps? Who can argue with that?
Too funny!
I’m never impressed by “never had a sick visit/day off sick” Just because you stuck to your normal routine doesn’t mean you *should* have.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342
Gish gallop time I see, Marcie.
Presumably when you say your 4 yr old has the intellect and vocabulary of an adult you must mean that you have the intellect and vocabulary of a 4yr old.
It shows.
Marcie Ellyn,
Did you know that paragraphs are now legal in all 50 states?
Use them.
She can’t. She is uneducated and happy to remain so.
Nice! I just might get my Christmas Pharma Shill bonus after all!
C’mon.. daddy needs a new Lambourghini Veneno..
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/392/685/a9c.png
Aspirations to be Batman?
Neat.
My shill checks only cover me up to a Beamer 5 series.
But.. but.. it’s gorgeous!
And take a look at those specs!
Gee I had to settle for a Peugeot 407 never mind I may get a raise.
Sigh. I’d settle for a new bike.
Marcie Ellyn: “These shots have never been tested TOGETHER for safety, yet the schedule packs them in with 8 at once in an infant that may only weigh 10 lbs at
two months and even YOU have stated that any deviation from the schedule is a “threat to the baby.” They are also not tested for mutagenesis, carcinogenesis, nor fertility or birth defect outcomes! How you can go on boasting about their safety is questionable at best.”
Have a read for yourself..
FDA | “Vaccine Product Approval Process”
And more to the point..
Vaccinate Your Baby | “Too Many Vaccines?”
“Finally, all vaccines are subjected to concomitant studies before they are approved for use, meaning that all new vaccines must be tested in conjunction with existing ones to ensure there are no negative interactions. Regulatory agencies such as the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) are careful to look for any side effects associated with concomitant use before approving a new vaccine.”
“A handy list of papers, proving how comprehensively vaccines are tested before they can be licensed” can be found at:
Just the Vax | “Vaccine Trials: Methods and Best Practices”
… …
Oh and since you are here.. was just going to have an apple for a snack, as it’s looking like it’s going to be a late dinner.
Could you provide the studies/research showing apples not to be ‘mutagenesis, carcinogenesis, nor contributing to fertility or birth defect outcomes’?
Thanks.
It’s always good when the anti-vaxers drop in, because it illustrates their way of thinking for readers who have never witnessed it before.
All the usual tropes are here:
Poisons injected into little bodies, autism, cover-ups, BIG PHARMA, Vaxxed, TRUTH, Vitamin K, Wakefield “wrongly accused” bla bla la, with a good measure of UPPER CASE! And all in ONE PARAGRAPH!
Educate yourselves!
Do your research!
From people who are, at best, self-educated, and have never done any real research.
Or, straight from the AntiVaxxers’ Handbook, paragraphs 3, 4, 5a, 11, 17, 24a and b, 26 and 31.
http://nationalacademies.org/HMD/Reports/2013/The-Childhood-Immunization-Schedule-and-Safety.aspx
You’re so full of shit. Your kids aren’t vaccine-injured, you idiot.
You have cited zero evidence to back up your hysterical claims. Your child didn’t have a vaccine injury at all. You have been completely unable to show evidence that you ever petitioned NVICP. You can’t even provide a diagnosis you received from an M.D. that a vaccine ever harmed any of your children. The vitamin K shot didn’t “do him in” or even close to it. You’re just making up a story so you can get hair-pats and sympathy.
Look it’s one thing to tussle with the person making new comments full of lies but leave the older posts alone. Grave digging is uncool; plus I really would rather not have these people come flooding back in here and clogging up the comment feed with more nonsense.
Are you an admin?
The only admin is Dr. T. One could also argue that it’s her job to tell off Nick if she feels it necessary. Generally, though, we don’t resurrect long dead posts
I don’t get it. Who’s “we?”
The regulars
And that makes you special because? I’ll respond to anyone I choose whenever I wish. Unless you are an admin, your input is irrelevant.
Maybe I’m a jerk; Ukay certainly thinks so. God knows I hate myself, so you’re in good company. Nick has been kind to me, so I tend to stick up for him.
Soo, what makes you special in getting to stalk some ludicrous antivaxxer to random places on the internet?
Who says I’m special?
The in- group trying to regulate behavior by invoking internet seniority.
Oh, so they’re the cool kids, then?
No; just a regular offering friendly advice.
It is pretty uncool to tell somebody where to comment, regular or not. Just ignore it if you don’t like it. Wonder what happens if I don’t take the friendly advice…someone comes to my house to have a friendly discussion of what WE don’t do?
P.S. Marcie Ellyn came back earlier and commented anew.
This twit has been posting nonstop on FB with her bullshit. I’m in FB jail at the moment, so if this is the only place I can hand her her ass, so be it.
‘…I will come here and make a goose of myself while imagining I’m handing Dr T her ass…’
Fixed it for you .
You can’t read, dear. I’m handing that idiot antivaxxer her ass.
Aagh my bad. Reading on the phone, not reading the entire thread, sorry!
It’s usually me teasing the anti-vaxxers too.
No worries. I’m a big fan of Dr. T.
ME started it by resurrecting this thread herself, two days ago, with this comment:
http://www.skepticalob.com/2016/10/vaccination-is-far-more-baby-friendly-than-breastfeeding.html#comment-3765071784
okay. My mistake
At the time I made this comment, I was aware that an antivaxxer had made new replies on this post, although I did not realize it was the same one who had posted a year ago. That’s why I phrased my statement the way that I did.
This lady gets bonuses for vaccinating and providing false articles
Who? Dr. Tueter? She is not working in medicine any more! You’re barking up the wrong tree.
She also wasn’t a pediatrician, so I’m wondering how many kickbacks she would have gotten for vaccines. SMH.
This is a bunch of horse shit ! Fuck vaccines and their thernisol mercury and detergents and chemicals ! They will NEVER PUT ANY OF THAT CANCER CAUSING PANCREAS EATING BRAIN MALFUNCTIONING AUTISUM CAUSING BULLSHIT IN MY KUDS NOT NO WAY NO HOW
What’s a “KUD”?
And what about a pancreas eating brain? And the malfunctioning autisum that causes bullshit???
Those are the real vaccine injuries.
What’s “thernisol”?
Your pancreas definitely ate your brain.
Oh, is the pancreas eating brain? Or is it a brain that eats pancreas? Perhaps my english is not good enough to understand Tori correctly. But her english seems also a bit vaccine damaged, one could think.
SCENE: Some bar/coffee shop in Amsterdam:
“Waiter! I’ll have whatever she’s having.”
“Let’s face it: those who vaccinate according to the CDC schedule love their children more than those who do not. Only a lazy, selfish mother would listen to anti-vaccine quacks instead of the CDC.” When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser – Socrates
Whoooosh That’s the sound of satire going right over your head.
Slander? “Only a lazy, selfish mother would listen to anti-vaccine quacks instead of the CDC, they dont love their children as much as mothers who do vaccinate..” That, right there is slander..
It’s only slander if it’s untrue.
Where are studies showing that vaccines are either safe OR effective? They don’t exist because they’ve never been done. Now let me present you with a list of studies showing that vaccines do major irreversible damage: http://yournewswire.com/30-solid-scientific-studies-that-prove-vaccines-cause-autism/
Dan Bland already posted that pile of drivel. Late to the game, I’m afraid.
Sorry, somebody already posted that stupid link and we already laughed at it.
As far as studies regarding the connection between autism and vaccines. If you think the studies weren’t bought to protect the manufacturers your nuts. If they aloud even one connection between the two it would be lights out for the vax company’s. Sooo.. dollars are paid results come back as directed. These are billion dollar institutions that have their interests in mind, not yours or your child’s. Look, vaccines started out ” not bad” , as time went on they became evil. Money has distroyed it. I say if you want to inject your children with poison go for it, trust your doctor. If you don’t, dont. The arguement doesn’t hold weight.
And why, with all the advancement we have made in science, would we have made vaccines worst and less safe?
What is the logic behind that. Even with pharmaceutical companies wanting to make money, what would they gain by making vaccines more and more dangerous on purpose and then waste money to cover up? They don’t need to make vaccines dangerous, vaccines have proven their benefits.
Since there is no ‘cure’ or effective treatment for autism, what would the pharmaceutical companies gain by changing vaccines to make them cause autism?
Stop it, Azuran.
You know the antivaxers don’t “do” logic.
You clearly demonstrate that you are basing your opinion on what you’ve heard and have not done a shred of investigation and research for yourself. That’s logic?
Terri, if you read some of my comments you might appreciate I have indeed done investigation and research on infections and vaccines (some of it has even been published in the medical literature..!)
Can you explain the antivax “logic” that Azuran discusses and explains in the comment above for me then, seeing how you appear to find some?
I wonder Mike if part of the problem here is the use of language. When Terri says ‘research’, she means talking to her twenty best online friends in their closed facebook page, while reading whatever anti-vax du jour items she can get her hands on.
When you say ‘research’ you mean study, as part of your life’s work, with the rigours of professional practice and study to both guide and limit you.
Totally different things.
Terri, Mike has actually done research. Not what anti vaxxers “think” is research. The logic error is yours.
“That’s logic?”
No, that’s irony.
Sick people are lifelong customers!! Why would they NOT want people sick? Follow the money, it’s a simple flowchart.
Oh yea, and how does that work with my public healthcare?
The government pays for the vaccine, then they pay for any vaccine reaction (and any health problems that may require any kind of care, whether or not it’s vaccine related) Then, if you get chronically sick, they pay you welfare if you can’t work, medical treatment, medications etc.
And the government gets it’s money from taxes. Meaning that the more sick or damaged people there are. The less money they make and the more money they have to spend. Making your own population sick does not have any benefits.
And even in the USA, you think that private medical insurances companies would let this happen? They fight ALL the time to refuse to pay treatment and tests. And they’d just let the vaccine companies do whatever they wanted and make them lose money treating all those sick people?
So did big pharma send you this way? Maybe they are soooo sneaky they’ve got a bunch of anti-vax shills to encourage people not to vaccinate! I guess it’s like the Nigerian scammers where the supposedly native English speaker strangely uses horrible grammar and awkward wording and/or implausible situations that any reasonably skeptical person could spot it was a scam a mile away. However, that’s intentional in order to only attract the super-gullible. No point on reeling someone in who would realize soon enough it was a scam. So is it big pharma’s goal to increase the amount of vaccine preventable illnesses to make all the money? One in 20 children will get pneumonia if they get measles. Those antibiotics, fluids, and probably even meal replacement shakes big pharma makes won’t run cheap! Big money there! I guess the iron lung makers are needing some money, too. Baby and children casket makers aren’t doing so well these days either now that most children live through childhood. You know, I’m just following the money.
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5860600/a-review-of-166-independent-studies-confirms-vaccines-are-safe-and
What a load of bs. So because I refuse to watch my other three children suffer while their intestines stop working, they spike high fevers, seize repeatedly, randomly stop breathing, stop talking, go back in diapers, slam there heads into the wall over and over again, scream non-stop for hours, have numerous stomach issues, among a million other symptoms from vaccines like their two older brothers did makes me a bad Mother who does not love them? You are a disgrace to your profession. Spreading false information and pushing a product at all costs. Trying reading a few unbiased studies, or better yet actually talk to your damn patients. They are real people not just a number.
If your kids really had such a reaction from vaccine, I expect they saw a doctor that confirmed it was a vaccine reaction. In such a case, getting a medical exemption should be easy.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone who has a legitimate medical exemption. If anything, when school and daycare are demanding that kids get vaccinated, they are doing so to protect YOUR children who cannot be vaccinated.
So since your kids apparently can’t be vaccinated, you should be happy that those who can are expected to.
The problem is, the vaccine companies and the doctor cannot, by law, be held accountable for the vaccine damage. And you cannot know if YOUR child will be adversely affected until AFTER the shots are given. There are thousands of children suffering irreversible damage every year and those parents are up the creek without a paddle, trying to help their children on their own.
Then I guess you never use any medication and will never have any kind of medical procedures.
Because guess what, all of those have risks, and those risks are known. And when possible complications happens, you cannot held the vaccine company or the doctor ‘accountable’. Because those were the risks of the procedure.
Now you can sue in case of a medical mistake, or if the vaccine company or doctors tries to hide possible risks and complications. But that’s not the case with vaccines, you just have to look at the vaccine insert, you people like it so much.
It is still not easy to get medical exemptions, and not all doctors will relate symptoms to vaccines even when it’s plain as day. Just because there has been a previous injury does not ensure exemption, and sometimes the sibling is the injured one. With genetics, I’m not willing to take the risk of another near death experience or worse!
Define near death. Because near death means emergency hospitalization. Which means easily obtainable medical exemption. Maybe you didn’t get one because it wasn’t near death and wasn’t caused by the vaccine.
BINGO!! She won’t even reveal what diagnosis she got from an M.D. She’s just lying.
it really boils down to money and control. Do you really think they care about your child’s welbieing? Of course not. It’s a buisiness, a huge one at that . The so called out breaks at Disney world last year of measles…. all vaccinated children. Think what they tell you too and you’ll never have to worry about anything omg . Christ!!! They hand out flu vaccines at every drug store in America for free! Now why would they do that? Cirtinly not because they want you safe and sound, where’s the money in that?! No no, it’s because the manufacturers of the vaccines are heavily invested in the, drum roll please …. you guessed it, your new government run health care system. They also know if you get that free flu shot there’s a fantastic chance you will get sick from it in the near future, sick enough to have to go to the doctor and spend boat loads of money. Much more so than the cost of the free shot and administration. I mean it’s freaking beautiful!! Money folks! Tons of money in fear!
Viagra and cholestral meds, yes, vaccines, no. And how much do they make when a person is sick enough to get hospitalized?
Please explain how this theory works in countries with universal healthcare like the UK and Canada. If the NHS paid for a vaccine which was going to end up costing far more in terms of vaccine-reaction, why on earth would they do that? Why would they spend money that was going to cost them a fortune in the future? Your conspiracy theory makes zero sense.
Funny, the Disneyland measles outbreak caused a small epidemics in my region as well. And the cases were all in unvaccinated children. You might want to check out the source of your claim that it only affected vaccinated people.
And really, your entire post is nothing but paranoid conspiracy theory that makes 0 sense.
Unfortunately, there are too many “sources” posting their own stats on this outbreak. But the MOST important point is that nobody died because guess what, it’s not a life threatening illness! More kids are damaged by the vaccine than helped by it.
Measles kills about 1/1000 cases. Nobody died in that outbreak because there weren’t enough cases. But without vaccines, probably 90% of all kids would get measles in their lives. How many kids is 1/1000 of all kids?
Actually, nobody died in the Disney outbreak because nobody died, thank God! There was an outbreak in Washington state that same year and one person did die, even though there were only 5 cases. The one death per thousand is an overall average. https://www.verywell.com/measles-outbreaks-2633845
“Unfortunately, there are too many “sources” posting their own stats on this outbreak.”
Exactly…and you antivaxers are looking at invalid sources (or just making stuff up – I can’t tell which).
The official stats are quite clear, and are available here:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm
Actually, nobody died in the Disney outbreak because nobody died, thank God! There was an outbreak in Washington state that same year and one person did die, even though there were only 5 cases. The one death per thousand is an overall average. https://www.verywell.com/measl…
…did you just say that measles isn’t a life threatening illness?
“Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
In 2015, there were 134 200 measles deaths globally – about 367 deaths every day or 15 deaths every hour.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 79% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2015 worldwide.
In 2015, about 85% of the world’s children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
During 2000-2015, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 20.3 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.”
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
I think you’ll find Terri does not concern herself with people unfortunate enough to not be born wealthy and American. When wealthy American people get measles, they probably are pretty much okay, what with all that high quality healthcare for a price.
Poorer people, or people from places where high quality healthcare is not available, not so much. But then they don’t live on unicorn sparkles, so aren’t they really, in Terri’s eyes, just getting what they deserve?
Terri has a nasty case of what we in Australia refer to as ‘I’m alright Jack’. If you’re a kind person, you could think she assumes everyone else is too. If you’re a realist, you know she just doesn’t care.
“The so called out breaks at Disney world last year of measles…. all vaccinated children.”
This lie is easily disproved. Please see below. Overall, out of the 63 cases in the outbreak for whom the vaccination status was known, 49 were completely unvaccinated (78%) and 5 were incompletely vaccinated (8%).
Only 7 cases (11%) had been fully vaccinated.
But I guess that in the era of Drumpf, a lie is not only acceptable, but routine (dare I say mandatory?) when trying to sway peoples’ opinions.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm
Flu vaccines are not available for free at the drugstores in the US. You are certainly wrong about that. If you have insurance, thanks to Affordable Care Act, it does have to cover the flu vaccination, but otherwise you do have to pay out of pocket. But you know, most of us do pay for our health insurance so I wouldn’t call it free. https://www.walgreens.com/topic/pharmacy/healthcare-clinic/price-menu.jsp You may be able to take advantage of a vaccination drive but they are not free anywhere and everywhere!
I feel every American citizen has the right to see what Mr. bill Gates and spouse has to say about vaccinations and population control. Ted confrances and live interviews
And that’s because Bill Gates is such an expert on … operating systems?
Yeah, how wrong of him to point out that people in the developing world will have fewer children once they can feel confident that all of their children will live to adulthood. You are such an idiot.
“No, it’s not breastfeeding; it’s vaccination, which saves a thousand times more lives in practice than breastfeeding ever could in theory.”
The operative words: “in theory”, should actually read “in theology”
True. Most religions are very paternalistic and many of the more religious want women to stay at home and tend the babies.
Apparently, @disqus_s58KH3CnWX:disqus took his ball and went home. Too bad…
Wait! There’s more:
And, as if that wasn’t enough:
You’re welcome, Dan.
I’m growing a little tired of being attacked on this page so I doubt I’ll stay much longer. They keep asking for peer reviewed articles and when I give them what they want they immediately attack the article or the authors or yours truly. So why should I even bother anymore?
Here’s 30 articles proving the vaccine/autism connection. Let’s see how they react to this?
http://yournewswire.com/30-solid-scientific-studies-that-prove-vaccines-cause-autism/
“So why should I even bother anymore?”
Why did you bother in the first place?
As a fan of devastating one-liners, I tip my virtual hat to you, sir.
Thank you, my good friend @onlythe_lonely:disqus .
Coming from you that is a compliment, indeed!
Ohh, are you going away, then? Whatever shall we do for entertainment now? Eh, no worries, we’ll find something.
“Here’s 30 articles proving the vaccine/autism connection.”
The very first article cited, Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact by Leo Kanner, Johns Hopkins University, 1943, has only one (1) incident of the word “vaccination” (or any derivative), and it is not used in a context of “proving the vaccine/autism connection.”
If the first “article” is that easily disproven, then all 30 are suspect.
The second one is about implication of environmental toxicity. Now unless bees are now vaccinating us with their stings, I don’t think it has much to do with proving vaccines causes autism.
I do hate pedantry-not that I’ll let that stop me indulging-but didn’t our Dan say there never used to be any autism back in the good old days? So however in the world a non-time travelling author from 1943 could have written anything on autism is, according to Dan’s own lights, more than a little troubling.
Also, while I’m on a roll, I don’t know that there was too much vaccination in 1943 either.
A person with a less kind world view than mine might even think Dan doesn’t read a single thing he copies and pastes.
“A person with a less kind world view than mine might even think Dan doesn’t read a single thing he copies and pastes.”
A most reasonable and – if I may add – logical conclusion, my friend. 🙂
“So why should I even bother…”
In relation to the anti-vaxxer’s “dedication,” @disqus_0oY51KTEMo:disqus once posted:
That leads directly to four questions no anti-vaxxer has ever been able to (honestly) answer:
As to this question, I have never seen a single poster, on any issue, post “I’ve changed my mind on said issue based solely on what you’ve written here or what you’ve copied and pasted here.”
Never.
Finally – and this relates to all three of the above questions
In other words, I wonder who the anti-vaxxers believe is the audience for their “efforts.” I have read anti-vaxxers who have implied, explicitly or implicitly, that what they’re doing they are doing for all those numerous people lurking and reading their comments, and that they’re trying to counter what the realists (or, pro-vaxxers, if you will) are saying, again, for all the people lurking and reading the comments.
Now, I happen to believe that the only people who read Internet message board comments (at least beyond the first several comments on a newly-posted thread) are people who are already decided on an issue, one way or the other, and are passionate about the issue again, one way or the other. I don’t believe that there are people who are genuinely undecided about an issue who seek the comments/opinions of anonymous Internet posters to help them make up their minds. Certainly not a lurking audience of any real measure. And that’s especially true when the inevitable flame wars erupt within the comment section.
@disqus_0oY51KTEMo:disqus also posted,
It would be intellectually refreshing if the anti-vaxxers would, just once, admit that all their effort is merely their demonstration of fealty to the cause.
A Disqus poster once wrote, as to the reason he posts comments:
Hard to disagree with that assessment. Plus, for me, I get to read word gems mined and written by people like @disqus_0oY51KTEMo:disqus .
But I am under no delusion that I am posting to untold hordes of lurking and undecided people, and am not looking to change anyone’s mind on an issue.
You make some excellent points. Sometimes it seems a finger-in-the-dike issue on both sides of any given issue or perspective. I see it now even in attempting to add some balance to political discourse, at least in the instance of fake news. As might be expected, most is rejected itself as “fake news.” It’s especially frustrating when dealing with the so-called “alt-right” due to their explicit goal of flooding discourse with memetic warfare.
That said, I’ve had a few (a very, very few) encounters that ended in rapprochement and a changed opinion to one more evidence-based. Woo hoo! Can I prove it? Absolutely not, because encounters are fleeting and who knows? Anyone on the interwebz could easily be a dog.
@kfunk937:disqus, I always enjoy your comments and contributions to a discussion.
You never disappoint, my friend!
Likewise, and thank you. I was also pleased that you mentioned Gabby as we’ve been missing connections lately. Inspired me to go catch up with at least one side of the conversation on some articles I’d missed.
Yep, this happens, but it results from actual discussion. It doesn’t come from flooding it with cut-and-paste bits from other websites and youtube videos.
True dat. In all cases, it began with establishing some area of shared reality, a soupçon of empathy, and maybe some Socratic teaching. And none were meme warriors.
If it helps at all, I got led to quite a few skeptical websites due to an article I read in Private Eye (UK political satire/humour magazine) about Andrew Wakefield which uncritically reported his claims.
I was interested, but didn’t know anything about the subject. For all I knew, there could be something in it (this was before AW’s conflicts of interest and sleaziness came to light, along with large scale research refuting his claims).
I went and read up on responses from official sources, and people who appeared to know what they were talking about. Through them, I found Respectful Insolence, SBM, Pharyngula and our own Dr T.
To be fair to Private Eye, the next year they published the full story in a special report, which wasn’t quite titled, “We Messed up, sorry”, but had that basic message.
More than can be said of almost every other major UK paper.
I hate the phrase “don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out” but then again, I don’t care, let it hit you for all I care, just so long as you leave.
I don’t want his butt cooties on the door.
Will he stick it this time? The crowd waits…
They keep asking for peer reviewed articles and when I give them what they want they immediately attack the article or the authors or yours truly.
It’s known as reading and analyzing the data. Just posting a link to an article, peer reviewed or not, does not prove your point. It has to contain convincing data that support your hypothesis. And stand up to attack.
I think Dan mistakes “attack” for “reasoned and thorough review of articles he provides, and then debunking them with science”.
Dan, most of the articles do not mention vaccines, or autism, or deal with unnamed toxins, “toxins” found in the air but not in vaccines, or “toxins” from elsewhere not found in vaccines such as methyl mercury, or deal with theoretical scenarios in animals…. The list goes on.
Can you pick your “best” paper that as you say “proves the vaccine/autism connection”, and we’ll take things from there?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e6801dcac8b940043cc35310102e49f379c06901939241e61a5a5c52b176e3e8.jpg
But has he failed to launch? Only time will tell…
You people promoting giving babies formula need to be sure you use distilled water rather than from the tap.
Where have you got that from?? Recommendations regarding what type of water (as in tap vs bottled) to use vary quite wildly from country to country. Please do tell me oh great wise one why you think bottle-feeding mums shouldn’t ever use tap water.
There are many reasons. But the first two, in my opinion are the chlorine and fluoride found in tap water. Both are members of the halogen family of elements which are the most reactive of all the elements. Chlorine is added to the water to kill bacteria so what do you think it’s doing to the microbiome bacteria in that baby’s intestines? Plus C-section babies do not get their mother’s intestinal microbiome because babies get that when they pass through the birth canal. Did you know that C-section babies are more prone to autoimmune diseases? Both vaccines and Babies born by C-section are related to autoimmune diseases so the cause lies in the gut in my opinion.
Fluoride is a known neurotoxin and endocrine disrupter and since babies only weigh a few pounds they are getting the highest dose of all. Premature babies and low birthweight babies are even more susceptible to fluoride.
There’s also lots of other contaminants that water gets as it passes through all those pipes before it gets to your faucet. Since fluoride is so reactive it actually causes lead to be leached from some pipes.
You do understand that bacteria is a very bad thing for small babies don’t you? And that (using your own argument) if we were to stop treating our water that it would contain much more bacteria than it currently does? And are you also aware that in countries such as the UK (which is where I am from) that tap water is much, much more rigorously tested than bottled water? That it has to meet much higher standards than anything you can buy in a bottle off the shelf? In addition, fluoride levels (and I’m not qualified to talk about that so I’m not even going to tackle it) in tap water also vary wildly from place to place. I live in the south of England. Do you have any idea how much fluoride is added to water where I’m from? I’m going to guess you don’t know but you’re quite happy to try and scare me by banging on about it. How can you offer generalised advice to people when you clearly have no expertise on something as important as infant feeding? It’s not something you can generalise with and by offering potentially incorrect information, if somebody actually listens to you then you could make their baby sick. That’s really not ok.
I said use distilled water. I said nothing about stop treating water.
Well you will have to forgive me but I think I’ll continue to get advice on feeding my son from my GP and local Health Visiting team. You know, rather than some random guy online who posts links to articles claiming that vaccines are part of a government conspiracy to give us all robot brains…..
Why used distilled water when tap water is as safe or safer?
Does this guy just trot out different worn old woo tropes every day?
Sure looks like it. I am waiting for tomorrow’s exciting instalment on eating organic food and evil Monsanto.
I might have a bingo if he calls GMOs “Frankenfood”!!
I spent 36 years breeding wheat. We can talk about that too if you want or you can go play bingo.
I hope you never used any kind of fertilizer or pesticide. Since those are far more dangerous than vaccines
Since we’re on the subject of pesticides, did you know that vaccines have been tested positive for glyphosate?
Prove it, as we keep saying. That single very flawed study only reported in NaturalNews and other disreputable scaremonger sites doesn’t count. Published papers showing results, please.
Also, please show where glyphosate is harmful to humans.
Show your work. I’ll wait.
Don’t hold your breath though!
It’s not very dangerous to people but I wouldn’t go sticking my hands in it or drinking it if I were you. But it’s the most widely used pesticide ever. It is being sprayed directly onto food crops and in some cases several times during the growing season. So it is getting into the food you eat and once in your intestines the microbiome is exposed to it and many of the bacteria down there have the same metabolic pathways as plants causing dysbiosis which can be horrific as in the case of C. diff.
I sure don’t see any proof there. I see a lot of your opinion and conjecture But no proof.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carey-gillam/fda-tests-confirm-oatmeal_b_12252824.html
Written by USRTKer. Lolz.
The EPA and the EU need to do more research on gut ecology then make their allowances.
Well, okay. They gonna do that with all pesticides ever, including ones allowed in organic farming? Do we sit around and starve while we wait? That ain’t gonna work.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/
Samsel and Seneff? Pull the other one, why don’t ya.
Dan, I am not going to let me and mine starve because of a poorly done study on fish. Still didn’t answer my actual question!
They gonna do that with all pesticides ever, including ones allowed in organic farming? Do we sit around and starve while we wait?
While Seneff has degrees in electrical engineering and computer science,
she has no training in medicine, healthcare, or biology. It is even
less clear what training Samsel has or what degrees he might have been
awarded. One must wonder what makes a self-described independent
scientist and computer science/artificial intelligence laboratory
scientist qualified to talk about celiac disease.
So you don’t trust peer reviewed studies. Heck I don’t blame you after learning that the CDC lied about vaccines and autism I don’t either.
“…the CDC lied about vaccines and autism I don’t either.”
When all you have are lies then lying’s all you can do.
Vaccination DOSE NOT cause Autism AND Seneff and Samsel are a joke.
Seneff was involved in creating the ability of computers to understand your voice. If she’s a joke then I bet you’re the only one laughing.
She is a joke relating to Medical matters
“Seneff was involved in creating the ability of computers to understand your voice.”
Well then, hand her a scalpel and let her start brain surgery. /snark
No one said she was a doctor.
Oh, but you trust her to do research on celiac disease?
She’s a genius.
“She’s a genius.”
Almost everyone is a genius about one or two things.
Almost everyone is familiar with several things.
Everyone is ignorant about most things.
The key is knowing which category one falls into given a specific subject.
You and the charlatan you call a genius fail in that regard.
Ok you have an opinion.
“Ok you have an opinion.”
There are opinions based on logic, facts and scientific reasoning.
Then there are opinions based on junk science and “feelings.”
My opinion falls into the former category.
Your opinions, as expressed on this page, clearly fall into the latter.
You’re welcome.
Oh yea, where did you get that. And again, being a genius doesn’t mean she’s a valid source of info on celiac disease.
And you are????
I’ve never claimed to be a genius nor have I claimed to be a reliable source of info on celiac disease.
I’ve only said that she wasn’t a credible one either.
“No one said she was a doctor.”
“Charlatan” would be a better descriptor.
If that’s a qualification for medical research then I want the medical advice of the real experts.
I want the guys who coded Dragoon Gnatchurally Speeking™. (spellink correct)
They’re the ones who can speak authoritatively on this subject, not that Jr. Varsity 2nd stringer – Steph Seneff. What does she know? She’s never produced voice recognition software that was viable like the Dragoon guys.
And, even if in a parallel universe, vaccines did cause autism, AUTISM IS NOT A FUCKING DEATH SENTENCE (not yelling at you, EEJIT, but it needs to be said). You can smell the bloody ableism coming off Dan, can’t you? Absolutely reeks.
No, this post is the joke.
You know what sucks as much as being on the autism spectrum? Being deaf, blind, and/or lame because your parents were too afraid of autism to get you vaccinated. At least *my* hearing loss is from a disease without a vaccine
How many people do you know that are “deaf, blind, and/or lame” because they were not vaccinated? Thought so. We are seeing a generation of youth being disabled because of vaccines. Nice try.
My cousin is deaf from congenital measles. I went to nursery with another little girl who is deaf from measles. I also had a French teacher at school who walked with a stick after contracting Polio as a child. I’m only 36.
measles or german measles? (just curious)
I believe regular measles (for both). There is a possibility I could be mistaken and that it was German Measles but the family has always referred to my cousin’s deafness as ’caused by measles’ (not that it’s, frankly, something everyone wrings their hands about regularly. We were curious as small kids as she was ‘different’ but I don’t think I’ve asked any questions about it for well over 20 years).
Interesting (at least to me). ty
No problem. Now I will have to ask my mum and make sure I’m not mistaken! The girl I went to nursery with (that lost her hearing) definitely had regular measles. My mother still tells the story every time anybody talks about not vaccinating their kids (and she’s involved in a super-scary Jesus cult so it does come up with her peers). She’s staunchly pro-vax and despite the fact she’s utterly bonkers in many other respects, I am grateful that she’s given me that at least.
In addition, that’s just anecdotal. Despite requesting anecdotal evidence, you don’t know me. I’m just some random commenting on a discussion board on a blog. I don’t necessarily expect you to believe that I know people who’re living with the consequences of VPD. I am sure (if you were so inclined) you could have a look at some actual medical textbooks. Or historical accounts of what happened when these diseases were much more prevalent pre-vaccination. I’m sure that other commenters could point you in the direction of some if you were interested. Just because you haven’t seen something with your own eyes does not make it less true. For example; I’ve never been to Australia. I am certain that it exists. I don’t need to get on a plane and travel there to be sure about that.
If you have the textbooks detailing the disease rates prior to vaccination, you must have seen the precipitous decline in nearly all infectious disease, including the diseases no vaccines were developed for, before vaccines were introduced.
You can take your strawman elsewhere thanks. That response has precisely nothing to do with my previous statement. Nice try though!
Lol, do you even know what a straw man is?? If pointing out a fundamental flaw in your statement is a straw man, what does it say about your statement to begin with? You can’t make this stuff up.
I know exactly what a straw man is. I made a statement regarding the fact that I felt it was highly unlikely that you would be interested in listening to anecdotes from online strangers regarding the effects of vaccine preventable disease (when you originally made the statement “How many people do you know that are ‘deaf, blind and/or lame’ because they were not vaccinated” to which I responded as I know several). I suggested that you could (if you were interested) do some research if you wanted to know about the potential long-term effects of such diseases, and that a good place to start might be via medical text books. Your response was (and I quote):
“If you have the textbooks detailing the disease rate prior to vaccination, you must have seen the precipitous decline in nearly all infectious disease, including the diseases no vaccines were developed for, before vaccines were introduced”
A strawman is where you create a false argument against something the original poster did not argue. Please show me in my original comment where I did the following:
A. Claimed to personally own any medical textbooks
B. Claimed to have read any medical textbooks
C. Made any claims about the decline in infectious disease rates or why those declines may have happened
I understand that you clearly think you’re super-clever so this should be easy for a genius such as you. Please show me where the fundamental flaw in my original argument was (as you completely failed to even respond to the point I was actually making). Off you go, I wait with baited breath……
So after having your statement legitimately called into question, you don’t try to support or explain the flaw, you resort to ad hominem….
Haha! Bravo for that attempt. A- for effort (although you don’t get full marks as simply rolling through the lexicon of debate doesn’t get you extra points I’m sad to say). Which part of my statement were you ‘legitimately’ calling into question? If you were referring to your thinly veiled attempt to damage my credentials by calling into question how many medical textbooks I’ve read on vaccination then that won’t work. You can’t damage somebody’s credentials when you’re questioning credentials they never claimed to have I’m afraid.
Not at all, your statement “historical accounts of what happened when these diseases were much more prevalent pre-vaccination” is the statement under question, as it both highly questionable as well as the foundation of your post.
No it isn’t. Taking any statement out of context can easily skew any argument. You are fully aware that I was questioning the truth of your original statement that somehow not having seen or known anybody who is deaf, blind and/or lame as a result of VPD would diminish the position that these diseases (as in measles/rubella/polio in particular) cause these particular consequences. I *have* seen such consequences but I don’t expect you to believe the word of a random on an online post regarding that truth. And so we go back around in a circle because you keep trying to question credentials that I have never claimed to have. Are you honestly saying that you don’t believe that VPD can cause deafness, blindness and lameness or not? As I have already stated, I do not expect you to rely on the anecdotes of strangers and I am sure that if you were interested, you could ask somebody with actual medical credentials (as in NOT ME) for some pointers on where you could read up about this. You’re the one denying conventionally accepted medical advice and knowledge. Not me. I strongly suspect you’re trying to argue with me precisely *because* I’ve made it clear I’m no doctor and you think that I’m going to behave like some idiot anti-vaxxer and pretend that because I read quite a bit and have some good anecdotes that this would even vaguely compare to the kind of argument somebody with comprehensive medical training could give you. Sadly for you, I am not ashamed of the gaps in my knowledge. We all have them. The difference between somebody like you and I is that I’m prepared to admit where mine are and defer to people who are specialists in their given subjects on any topic. I know I don’t know everything. That’s good with me. Feel free to keep trying to make me look stupid because I’m not a doctor though. I strongly suspect (and hope to fuck) that you aren’t either.
You’re making huge, false assumptions. Your posts are full on emotion, and very light on fact, and you accuse me of trolling. I never posted infectious disease never has sequalae, at the same time, you are avoiding the fact that vaccinations can and do cause those same sequelae. I am not trying to make you look or feel stupid, it’s unfortunate that other peoples opinions and facts that do not support your opinion upset you.
You said:
“How many people do you know that are “deaf, blind, and/or lame” because they were not vaccinated? Thought so. We are seeing a generation of youth being disabled because of vaccines. Nice try.”
I have questioned this position. Several times. You keep trying to pick apart bits of my responses when more than one of us replied to this very post because we know people who are living with the consequences of VPD. Rather than concede that it was a ridiculous stance to take (because either you believe those of us saying we have seen these consequences OR because there’s no way in a million years you’re going to buy the anecdotes of strangers), you’ve instead attempted to deconstruct my position and use repeated strawman arguments to try and make me look like I don’t know what I’m talking about. You either think VPD don’t cause these consequences (in which case your original statement was deliberately misleading and spiteful, just to make a point) or you do (in which case I have no clue why you’re continuing to try and argue with me).
In addition, of course I’m emotional. I’m a new(ish) mum who has a baby who’s too small to have had his MMR yet. When I see people downplaying the very real risks of diseases like measles, mumps and rubella, it terrifies me. I worry every day I take my son out of the house that we’ll run into some unvaccinated idiot who will make him sick because they’ve been sucked in by the anti-vax movement.
655321
“you are avoiding the fact that vaccinations can and do cause those same sequelae”
Please list those sequelae. And please note the severity observed for disease, and for vaccine.
Good luck getting a source out of them
Perhaps someone who posts from various sockpuppet accounts merits being called a “troll”, Herbert?
Don’t worry, not a snowball’s chance in hell that Herbert has any medical knowledge, let alone medical qualifications!
I can see that…..I am astonished that these people keep on refusing to listen to other people with actual medical knowledge though. This thread has been an enormous learning curve for me. I’ve (obviously) heard of the anti-vax movement but I didn’t know it had moved so far past the ‘MMR causes autism’ narrative that I thought formed the bulk of their argument. I had no idea this had stretched as far as ‘Vitamin K injections also cause autism’ (which as far as I can see has become a thing because Vitamin K is administered via injection as it’s obviously not a fucking vaccine) but there ya go……I regularly get into debates with my peers online about an enormous variety of topics from politics to feminism to veganism to basically anything it’s possible to have an opinion on. Amongst that community (who all have very different opinions on many different things and who have a wide variety of education level from being ‘kicked out of school’ to PHD level) there is no argument about the efficacy of vaccines. I feel like I’m playing the most depressing, utterly bizarre version of whack-a-mole that I’ve ever played here. I (perhaps naively) did not know that people were applying the same rejection of experts that they’ve been embracing in politics to their own medical care. It’s mad. Completely mad.
Ah, that be would be incorrect. Your medical qualifications, whatever they may be, do not impress me. You have used circular pharmaceutical talking points and lied by omission in this forum for at least a year as far as I can tell, pushing the vaccine agenda for whatever motives you have, either financial gain, denial and guilt, straight up ignorance, or legitimate sociopathic tendencies, it doesn’t really matter. The cool part about reading your posts is that you give a nice summation of the deceptive propaganda campaign being used by the pharmaceutical industry to attack individual and family rights.
So you claim to have “medical” qualifications, Herbert?
…You wish.
What are they… A diploma mill course in naturopathy?
He’s a reanimator!
Herbert? Heidi?
Oh 655321, you have forgotten who you are pretending to be already?
I meant “Herbert”, as in “Herbert West”, one of your other sockpuppets commenting from the same IP address.
Calling you “super clever” is now an ad hominem?
Lol.
“you must have seen the precipitous decline in nearly all infectious
disease, including the diseases no vaccines were developed for, before
vaccines were introduced.”
There you go conflating death with incidence again, Herbert… Tut tut!
Do you really think that diseases such as chickenpox and measles had a “precipitous decline” before their vaccines were introduced?
Look at this article if you want a history refresher:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/209448
Your article is exactly what you pharma shills love to push….leaving out disease rates and mortality rates prior to vaccination. Measles and chickenpox…2 mild childhood diseases which for 1 we have traded autism, the other increasing rates of shingles and long term other adverse effects remain unclear.
“Your article is exactly what you pharma shills love to push….leaving
out disease rates and mortality rates prior to vaccination.”
My article dealt with disease rates, Herbert, or didn’t you bother reading it?
Of course you wish only to talk of mortality, since that suits your fallacious argument better, but it won’t wash on people who know for a fact that disease rates did not come down for pretty much all of the vaccine-preventable childhood illnesses in the prevaccine era.
All of the airborne infections were either the same or increasing prevalence (measles, pertussis, meningitis, pneumococcal pneumonia, rubella, mumps, diphtheria, chickenpox etc) and some of the enteric diseases like rotavirus diarrhoea were also very prevalent (hygeine can only do so much when you have an infant cr4pping all the time).
Your claim (“you must have seen the precipitous decline in nearly all infectious disease, including the diseases no vaccines were developed for, before vaccines were introduced.”“) is demonstrably wrong, but you are either too stupid to see it, or too entrenched in antivax cognitive bias to accept it.
How easy you forget the past.
Before we had a vaccine for chicken pox, 90% of kids got it before age 12. That’s hardly a ‘precipitous decline’
And the vaccine came out in the mid 90s. Please, explain to us what massive improvements we made to sanitation.
Chicken pox=mild childhood disease. Chicken pox vaccine=increasing cases of the more dangerous shingles.
Tell that to the 70 canadians who died each year of chicken pox. Sure, not much, but still MUCH higher than those who died from the vaccine. And that’s without factoring the huge economic impact it had, the cost of treatment and possible hospitalization.
And you might want to look up shingles more seriously, you kinda have it backward. (which isn’t really surprising, considering you have everything backward when it comes to vaccines)
70 out of how many cases? Get real. As you vaccine folk like to say, vaccine reactions are rare….well on the flip side, chickenpox complications are astronomically small.
Unless you can show me 70 people a year who died following the CP vaccination. Then obviously the vaccine is better.
And that’s only death. It doesn’t count the massive economic impact that CP had.
Exactly. There are basically no deaths from the CP vaccine, so 70 a year is 70 unnecessary deaths. But fuck’em. They deserved to die.
Way to avoid the fact that the complication rate is infinitesimally small. And we don’t know the actual rate of adverse vaccine events following the vaccine, the studies have never been done. Mighty convenient.
The rate of complication from the vaccine is even smaller than that of CP. So those 70 death are 70 people that didn’t need to die. That’s the point. And the reason you can’t really do a study to know the death rate of a vaccine? Because it is so freakishly small, that you basically have to give the vaccine to the entire population of the country to get any statistically significant number.
But there is such a thing as continuous monitoring. We have very good information on the risks of complications or adverse effect of vaccination.
The rate of complication from the vaccine is even smaller than that of CP. Source?
655321/Herbert Here you go: 10 years of vaccine surveillance in the US (1995 – 2005).
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S170.long
“There were 25,306 adverse events
reported (52.7/100,000 doses distributed); 5.0% were classified as serious (2.6/100,000 doses distributed).”
Do you want me to look for the disease stats? Or could you share those yourself since you’re so sure it’s a mild disease.
Reply to myself: not much luck finding any info on complication rates, but there is this:
http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/chickenpox/possible-complications.html
Personally, I believe that temporary pain or stiffness of the joints (common vaccine complication) is better than a bacterial infection of the skin (disease complication, specific to chicken pox) or dying from Reye syndrome.
And it was chicken pox that taught me what Reye syndrome is after one of my sister’s classmates died of it.
Sorry boxxy, going by VAERS alone is not accurate. Do you even understand how VARS works?
655321, it’s Box of Salt. Making fun of someone’s screen name show a lack of confidence in your own argument.
” Do you even understand how VARS works?” Actually, I do. One of my kids is in it. It means that the 5% of unverified events reported in the paper is probably an overestimate.
How about if you link to your sources with numbers?
But since I know you’re not going to, I’ll add this from the discussion section of the paper (with apologies if the line breaks are bad):
“Before the varicella vaccination program in the United States, ∼100 children and adults, most of whom were healthy, died
each year from varicella [source: NEJM 2005]. In contrast, since implementation of the varicella vaccination program, deaths due to varicella have declined substantially. By 2001, varicella as an underlying cause of death had declined by 92% among children 1–4 years of age and by ⩾74% among
all
age groups <50 years.
Reported adverse events…..
655321, And it took you five days (six if we count from Azuran’s comment) to come up with . . . NO references?
Good work, 655321 /sarcasm
Boxxy, sorry I have a life outside of this forum, references for what exactly? You are using REPORTED adverse events. Reported adverse events may be as low as1%.
So you’re not going to attempt to back up your statement that more people die from CP than from the vaccine?
Even if I did, you wouldn’t care.
But do you have any kind of proof that the CP vaccine kills more people? Because really, YOU are on a pro-vaccine blog. YOU are the one who parachuted here. YOU are the one trying to fight against science and change our minds.
I have nothing to prove to you.
Wrong on both counts.
Says the guy who throws temper tantrums fits when called on his inaccuracies.
Piss off, I’ve thrown no temper tantrums or fits, and you’ve yet to show one single shred of evidence for anything, so take your ad hominem and stuff it.
Hmmm, ‘piss off’, ‘stuff it’, if posting on these forums gets you so emotional you want to consider something less stressful.
Go away, Herbert
Sucks when no one is buying your BS, eh?
i’m just going with international scientific consensus.
Mild invective is hardly a tantrum.
Herbert/655321 “Chicken pox vaccine=increasing cases of the more dangerous shingles.”
Maybe. At least that’s the UK’s excuse for not using the vaccine.
Here in the US, most of the next generation isn’t likely to have to worry about shingles since they will have never had the disease that causes it in the first place.
If you are saying there were “precipitous declines” in all infectious diseases prevaccine, how do you explain the high frequency/near universality of the following infections in the prevaccine era:
Measles
Mumps
Rubella
Pertussis
Rotavirus
Chickenpox
And please explain why it was that in the prevaccine era, the incidence rates of other infections was stable or even increasing (until vaccination caused them to plummet)
Pneumococcal pneumonia
Invasive HiB
Invasive Meningococcal disease
Polio
Diphtheria
Smallpox
My husband is blind because his mother caught rubella early in her pregnancy. I am deaf because there is no vaccine for scarlet fever. So that’s two right there.
I know several. I’m the physician for an adult group home. We have many patients who are blind and/or deaf and also have mental retardation as a result of congenital rubella syndrome.
PrimaryCareDoc, thank you for your work.
Thanks, but the real credit goes to my patients, who were dealt a shitty hand through no fault of their own, but persevere with dignity and bravery every day.
“the real credit goes to my patients”
Thinking about that has added a little bit of brightness to my day. Thank you again.
Well, My grandmother needs special shoes because polio left her with one leg slightly stunted. It’s not that bad, her cousin got it at the same time as her and died.
And yet, the only autistic person in my family is 55 years old. So yea, I know people who have been damaged because of VPD, and no one who is vaccine injured. And I’m not saying that I don’t believe it was caused by vaccines, I mean that absolutely 0 people have every claimed to me that they had a vaccine injury in real life.
The only other autistic person that I know personally was also completely unvaccinated when she was diagnosed so….
Since I have worked as a doctor, some of it in the tropics in the 1980s, I “know” of very many such disease-damaged people.
On a personal basis, my uncle died on his 1st birthday from “cerebrospinal fever”, aka bacterial meningitis (which is now vaccine preventable), my grandmother died of influenza, my sister is partially deaf after otitis media complicating measles, and we have many friends with fairly similar stories.
I can’t tell you of how my child was afflicted by mumps encephalitis, or pertussis pneumonia etc, because we took the decision to fully vaccinate all our family, and they have remained free of serious infections.
If you are or were a medical doctor, this explains your desperate attempt to use cognitive dissonance to clear your conscious of the guilt you have for damaging so many children. Finally makes some sense.
Or, of course, dead. I have no idea why, even if they honestly believe that vaccines could potentially put you on the spectrum, how that even vaguely compares to the enormous multitude of consequences from vaccine preventable diseases. And if you don’t vaccinate, you face *all* of those consequences.
You do have Evidence that I am being paid?
I suppose that you would not even consider that I really believe that vaccination is a good thing and I am posting here in my own time UNPAID by anyone to spread the word that vaccination is good.
So you don’t trust peer reviewed studies.
When they’re published in open-access journals (because quality journals try not to publish nonsense studies) by unqualified researchers? That would be a “no.”
https://scholarlyoa.com/2015/01/08/anti-roundup-glyphosate-researchers-use-easy-oa-journals-to-spread-their-views/
” Stephanie Seneff is a 65-yr-old computer scientist in the Department of Artificial Intelligence at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Like [her co-author] Samsel, Seneff has magically become an expert in glyphosate biochemistry and human disease while maintaining a career in artificial intelligence. Seneff’s last eight articles have also been published in the journal Entropy, which means she and her coauthors have spent $10,816.00 to publish in the last two years.”
“Anti-Roundup (Glyphosate) Researchers Use Easy OA Journals to Spread their Views,” Jeffrey Beall, op cit. and
“Glysophate Pseudoscience,” Paul Strode, https://mrdrscienceteacher.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/glyphosate-pseudoscience/
So you don’t trust peer reviewed studies.
Did you happen to notice who published that Seneff and Samsel article you posted? Ahem… here ya go: “Interdisciplinary Toxicology: The Journal of Institute of Experimental Pharmacology of Slovak Academy of Sciences.”
Wow, impressive! Especially considering that they accept 90% of the articles submitted to them! That figure is proudly displayed right here (where it says “Rejection Rate: 10%”):
https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/intox
“Peer reviewed” doesn’t mean much if they accept NINETY PERCENT of the articles they get.
Well, of course, do I even need to mention that HuffPo isn’t what we call a medical or scientific journal?
In any case, that article has a link to a PowerPoint presentation by Narong Chamkasem, Southeast Regional Laboratory, U.S. Food and Drug
Administration given at a meeting, which will take someone with more chemistry and biochemical knowledge than me to unravel. http://www.nacrw.org/2016/presentations/O-27.pdf
It’s kind of strange that nacrw would include slides representing blog entries written by a RTKer and MAM, both of whom have been highly criticised on the science and fear mongering. Who knows what was said about them, it may’ve been something like “as you can see, some people are inordinately worried for no good reason.” Still it’s probably a good thing that residues researchers intend to continue. It remains to be established, however, that there is any real cause for concern regarding negative health effects in the amounts present.
Just like citing YouTube.
Pro tip for anti-vaxxers: citing YouTube is like citing Highlights Magazine
http://www.skepticalob.com/2016/12/pro-tip-for-anti-vaxxers-citing-youtube-is-like-citing-highlights-magazine.html
“…citing YouTube is like citing Highlights Magazine.”
Excellent flashback to kindergarten.
Thanks, @AmyTuteur:disqus ! 🙂
OMG, Dan! Don’t you know that Moms Against Monsanto proved that there’s glyphosate in breast milk??? Doesn’t that scare you???
Good Lord-the Huff Po! I admit I read it for entertainment, but not for “real” news. They do have a reputation for being anti-vax.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8sgEhpHM4k
That only proves that there are idiots in this world. I didn’t watch it.
Oh, so OUR youtube video aren’t good enough for you, but you expect us to watch yours?
Xkcd on gut fauna, for your edification: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/gut_fauna.png
Brilliant!
That’s one of my favorites. I particularly like the hover text.
Oh, and please, show me the study that showed what kind of measurable effect it had.
Did you know that almond contain trace amount of Cyanide?
And apple cores! I freaked out a girl in high school I didn’t like when I told her that.
“I spent 36 years breeding wheat.”
I sure they couldn’t do it without your help.
So you mean you selectively bred crops? Next you’ll be talking about genetic engineering, you.
Whoops, my mistake, that’s today. Maybe tomorrow will be natural birth and chemtrails?
He’s already done “CS deficient in vaginal flora,” so we can only hope for more.
Yes.
They all read from the Anti-Vax Handbook, Sean.
He just threw out #4, page 2, #11, page 4 and a couple from page 7.
“You do understand that bacteria is a very bad thing for small babies don’t you?” I agree with you, maidmarian555, and the funny, and I mean laughable as well as ironic, thing is that many AVs tell us increased sanitation is why the incidence of diseases went down, NOT vaccines. Now old Dan-boy is telling us the sanitation is bad.
I wish they would make up their minds! Sanitation is good when arguing about vaccines but terrible when arguing about formula. I mean, WTF??!
Plus a formula fed baby is broken anyway so who cares?
But the first two, in my opinion
Well, there’s your problem. The rest of us prefer to deal in facts.
I’m just going to share my perspective with you, Dan, and you can take it or leave it. (I assume you’ll leave it). But one way I evaluate on an emotional level if a source is legitimate or not (and yes, emotional response is a rather crude measurement tool), is whether the source BORES THE SNOT OUT OF ME.
If it’s boring me to tears, it’s probably not trying to hook me by emotionally manipulating me into believing it’s true, and so I’m a little bit more partial to believing it – on an intellectual level, anyway.
http://fluoridescience.org/fluoride-topics/infant-formula/
Your source is highly biased.
Which of your sources have not been?
Latest research shows no significant improvement in tooth decay with fluoridated water. The practice of water fluoridation is archaic, effectiveness is questionable, extremely inefficient, expensive and also causes health problems.
Citation.
For the “latest research.”
This is not my area of expertise. But a person very close to me is. I may have to consult her for further resources. I know she would be interested in the latest research.
Please cite your sources.
I do feel the need to fess up that I do have some personal expertise in believing certain myths because I was enshrouded in a group of “like-minded people” who constantly fed me conspiracy-theory drivel such as 1) vaccines cause death, if not death, then autism, 2) fluoride causes mind control, 3) home birth is safer that hospital birth, 4) organic food is superior due to its lack of chemicaly-ness, and those chemicals are evil, 5) homeopathy works, 6) essential oils work, 7) aliens are real.
Dan, I feel like we could be in play group together, or maybe hanging out at the organic-wood fired sauna at our friend’s organic farm. If not you, someone very much like you. I have heard everything you’d said and more, and have even uttered some of the same things you’re saying myself. (Not confessing which ones, because I’m positively embarrassed.)
To wrap up: I got real with science, and what science is and what the scientific method is fundamentally, and I figured my way out of that mess. So I still have hope for you.
That said, I admire your tenacity.
“Your source is highly biased.”
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ac7f7d3a77a0ebc4e44012886b41632f83732279156fc2917567804cd8870cb1.gif
“since babies only weigh a few pounds they are getting the highest dose of all. ”
Pro Tip: Babies weighing “a few pounds” only drink a few ounces.
Keep going, Bland Dan – you;re digging yourself deeper and deeper.
Flint, MI. Don’t use the tap water.
Oh for sure. There’s plenty of places where to do so would be really, really dangerous. My point was that it varies depending on where you are. Where I live, the advice is to use tap water as it’s safer than bottled. He is just dispensing ‘advice’ randomly without considering that the safest option in one place could be the most dangerous in another. I don’t think he understands that the world is really big.
Oh, I’m just trying to cross the divide (the abyss??) and play a little bit. Maybe Dan lives in Flint. Then his comment makes perfect sense.
If he’d have replied with that then I would have kind of understood his position. Instead I got a rambling load of nonsense about C-sections, chlorine and fluoride. In fairness I’m no scientist so I’m not really qualified to confirm it’s *definitely* nonsense but I’m pretty sure my GP would have warned me about feeding my c-section *gasp* and formula fed *gasp* baby using tap water if it was full of dangerous chemicals…..
It was a rambling load of nonsense, wasn’t it?
Shifting goalposts came to mind.
I thought we were discussing the safety of vaccines. Sigh.
And I will concur, that there are places where the tap water is not safe to drink. And especially not safe for infants to drink. I can’t say all tap water is unsafe, because that is untrue.
my NICU grad gets tap, though we do boil it. Mommy and Daddy get tea, the grandduchess gets formula
Pretty sure it’s Georgia, although there are a lot of “Hard Knocks” High Schools around.
Oh, and we may add JFK assassination conspiracy to his collection.
Tap water varies around the world. I think we can all agree on that. Distilled water is much less variable. It costs less than 2 bucks per gallon. I’d say that’s a pretty good investment for the health oh your baby.
Distilled water from where? How would I know it’s safe? Who tests it to ensure its safe and free from bacteria?
Well distill your own then if you’re that paranoid.
But few of us are that paranoid. Maybe it’s because we’re drinking from the tap.
You are aware that the entire anti-vax industry that you’re so fond of is built entirely on the paranoia and fear of parents? I’m astonished that you would find the idea of a new mum being paranoid about her baby surprising.
The pro-vax industry dwarfs anything anti-vax. The people that are concernened about the safety of vaccines are not only parents who have experienced their children regress into autism but also ordinary citizens like me, scientists, medical professionals and just normal good people who don’t have a horse in the race.
Ah. So “normal people” and “ordinary citizens” who are pro-vax but ‘don’t have a horse in the race’ *aren’t* good people? Uh huh.
Hi Dan,can you point me to a site where it is proven that vaccination causes Autism?
1. CDC scientists colluded to cover up a relationship between the timing of the MMR vaccine and autism in African Americans that was first discovered in November of 2001. Rather than reporting the results to the public, all data regarding this relationship were destroyed at a secret meeting held some time in August/September of 2002. This fact has been affirmed via an affidavit given by Dr. Thompson to Rep. Bill Posey in September, 2014.
2. Dr. Thompson attempted to warn the CDC Director at the time, Dr. Julie Gerberding, regarding this relationship, prior to the February 2004 Institute of Medicine meeting on vaccines and autism. Rather than allowing Dr. Thompson to present the information at this meeting, Dr. Gerberding replaced him as a speaker with Dr. Frank Destefano, current director of the CDC’s Immunization Safety Office, where he presented fraudulent results regarding the MMR vaccine and autism. Dr. Thompson was put on administrative leave and was threatened that he would be fired due to “insubordination.”
3. When Dr. Thompson attempted to leave the CDC later that same year, he was given a $24,000 retention bonus. Dr. Thompson’s impression of the timing of this bonus, in light of disciplinary actions taken against him earlier that year, is that CDC officials were “buying his silence” through controlling his actions as a CDC employee.
4. Dr. Thompson has published two papers linking thimerosal exposure in infant vaccines to tics in boys (Thompson et al. 2007 and Barile et al. 2012). CDC fraudulently maintains on their website that “There is no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.” (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/). The tic result was also affirmed in the earlier CDC publication by Verstraeten et al. (2003) and the Andrews et al. (2004) publication.
5. CDC pressured Dr. Thompson to downplay the tic result of his analysis in his 2007 paper. He was instructed to deemphasize the tic result by the CDC’s Chief Science Officer, Dr. Tanja Popovic, by emphasizing that the “major finding of the study” was “there is NO associations (sic) of thimerosal exposure with the great majority of the outcomes.” Dr. Popovic also instructed Dr. Thompson to interpret any negative outcomes as “chance findings.”
6. CDC also pressured Dr. Thompson to withhold publication of his 2012 paper which reported a relationship between thimerosal and tics. Dr. Ed Travathan, head of the CDC’s National Center for Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, stated in an April 27, 2009 memo to him that the analysis was sound except for the tic results and that they should be omitted from the publication. Since the tic result was the only result that had a consistent negative relationship with thimerosal exposure, it seemed that Dr. Thompson’s superiors were specifically concerned that thimerosal’s safety and use not be questioned. As an epidemiologist, Dr. Thompson was justifiably concerned and critical of the CDC’s action to approve the paper for publication only after the CDC took the extraordinary step of adding an expert in tics to water down the paper to state, “This finding should be interpreted with caution due to limitations in the measurement of tics and the limited biological plausibility regarding a causal relationship.”
“CDC scientists colluded to cover up a relationship between the timing of the MMR vaccine and autism in African Americans…”
No they didn’t.
And do you always copy-and-paste without so much as a cite or acknowledgement?
Its either laziness or just plain intellectual dishonesty on your part.
Hell all you got to do is copy a little of that and paste it in a search engine and you too can find where I got it.
“…and you too can find where I got it.”
So you’re admitting that you are intellectually dishonest.
That’s refreshingly honest.
Have you never copied and pasted?
It is expected that someone who does a copy/paste also provides the source where he got the information.
It is customary to cite one’s source completely and/or with a hyperlink/url, (a) so that you are neither plagiarising nor breaching copyright, and (b) so that readers may consult the original in situ such that the content may be verified. B is so that any misinterpretations and quote mining may be identified, whether intentional or not.
It’s dishonest to do otherwise.
Bravo Karla!
“Have you never copied and pasted?”
Often… and with attribution and/or citation.
You? Clearly not.
Yes you have posted a story that all anti vaxxers post,also Dr Thompson did say that he recommends parents to continue vaccinating their children.
Dan what I asked you is point me to a site that states vaccination causes Autism.thank you.
https://www.focusforhealth.org/dr-brian-hooker-statement-william-thompson/
OOPS, Sorry my mistake I meant a CREDIBLE site
*smacks palm against forehead*
Focus for Health?
Brian Hooker?
Oops.
Postscript: That’s how you copy-and-paste with attribution (in this case, with a citation).
You’re welcome.
If you put a bit of Bland Dan’s long cut-and-paste into any search engine, you can see where it’s been copied from one anti-vax site to another. These people know so little about what they claim to be knowledgeable about that they can;t even explain in their own words.
And they call US ‘sheeple’!
The pro-vax industry dwarfs anything anti-vax.”
Yeah. That tends to happen when scientific reality is opposed by voodoo medicine and Internet fake news and YouTube videos:
The former grows strong based on a foundation of competence while the latter sinks into an abyss of its own making, reinforced by its own epistemic closure.
“Ordinary citizens” like you voted for Trump. Need we say more?
Dan Bland said, “if you’re that paranoid”
KaBoom!
There goes another Irony Meter.
When I lived in rural Illinois, the recommendation was no well water until the baby was a year old, due to contamination of groundwater supplies with fertilizers. Mind you, this was in “Big Ag” country.
Even now, for private wells, there are some health concerns including bacterial, viral (Hep A) and parasitic diseases, all of which may be expected to be more serious in infants. There’s also arsenic and the like.
We had well water, too. It was delicious. The folks down the road were not so lucky and had foul-smelling, sulphurous water, although equally safe…or not.
Welp, if I based my opinions on observation alone, I’d conclude vaccines must include something that induces reading comprehension skills. Who is promoting formula?
You were born in, what, 1950? Formula was used pretty routinely at that time. I sure hope it was made with distilled water.
Breastfeeding does not come with the possible side effect of death.
Breastfeeding and not vaccinating does.
It can.
I had severe allergic reaction to breastmilk. It landed me in the hospital twice before they figure out what was going on. It could have killed me.
And if you don’t have enough milk, either because your baby has latching problem or your milk takes time coming in, it can cause dehydration, hypoglycemia and other complications.
Having an honest discussion about possible risks or complication isn’t anti-breastfeeding. Everything has risks and benefits and it’s important to mention them to help people make the proper choice.
This is a graph of infant mortality in the US from 1915-1997 from the CDC. Look at the rate in those early years. In those days, children were exclusively breastfed and yet they died in their thousands. Often those deaths were the result of contracting vaccine preventable diseases like measles and pertussis.
Relying on breastfeeding and failing to vaccinate can indeed have the side effect of death.
Breastfeeding with vaccination is a much better option.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7e3a3d7ad572bdaa4b82ad72c9a7e358f7b45b135be537c5cf9b66baf9994a32.gif
It certainly does. Up to 15% of women do not produce enough breastmilk to support an infant.
If there were no formula, thousands of babies would die each year. If there were no breastmilk all but a few premature babies would survive.
Sure it does. An infant could aspirate the milk.
What is the quantified risk of death from vaccination? It’s likely to be less than for breast feeding – considering exclusively BF babies can die from dehydration or malnutrition, or smothering while falling asleep feeding, and death from vaccination is almost unheart of.
It does. In addition to the cases mentioned before, babies sometimes suffocate with their little noses buried in mom’s breast. One of the reasons why it’s not a good idea to fall asleep with the baby still latched.
How many babies have died from unsafe positioning while breastfeeding?A particularly tragic one from a few years back was an infant dying while breastfeeding on a flight.
There are numerous accounts of infants dying after being put to breast in the adult bed with the mother who falls asleep.
So, yeah, I would say a side effect of breastfeeding is death.
I think that’s a very accurate way to put it, actually.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mom-warns-about-dangers-of-co-sleeping-after-sons-tragic-death-214843215.html
My sister’s milk would have. She needed chemo so she’d live long enough to see her baby’s 6th month.
Are they doing okay now?
My nephew’s doin’ just fine. He’s 9. My sister is back out of remission, but is in a sort of holding pattern just now
I hope things improve.
Here’s another movie trailer about how a young engineer’s life was almost destroyed after a tetanus shot. His mental problems acquired from the shot almost drove him to suicide but instead he spent the next 10 years of his life researching and compiling evidence and producing a documentary on his experience.
https://youtu.be/sqqiy8DhyH0
Still unable to grasp the concept of Hierarchy of Evidence, one sees.
Who is one? You? Haha
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/09b4855707d5596f2e6db462531aa2688f12ddae65c3f7c0cf7d45c3a133e0db.jpg
http://www.skepticalob.com/2016/10/letting-your-daughter-get-tetanus-is-child-abuse.html And he’s the story of a 9 year old who contracted Tetanus.
This graph is per ten million. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7372d7499a16c4a63264afae0e947269ebe3b435ac635806fd157ab8b690a1aa.jpg
In addition to everything ELSE you don’t quite understand…mortality vs morbidity.
I bet vaccines eliminated the Bubonic plaque too. Man those vaccines are miraculous.
What is bubonic plaque?
If you’re referring to “the plague,” it’s a bacterial infection, treated with antibiotics. Like strep throat and scarlet fever, no vaccine required at present.
You’re right. Vaccination had nothing to do with “eliminating” bubonic/pneumonic plague.
Death did.
Once 30%-50% of the population of the afflicted areas of Europe had died of the disease there wasn’t a large enough population left to allow the continuation of the epidemic. It’s called herd immunity where the effective reproduction dropped below 1. viz: Re<1.
Are you recommending we use the same method in the modern world? Are you an anti-vaccine eugenicist? How ghoulish of you.
We’ve been through the herd immunity theory. It’s BS. Most people my age are unvaccinated and a lot of us have never had many of the diseases. I myself have never had mumps, rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, and on and on and on. Keep your precious child away from me. I’m a walking time bomb.
Herd immunity has kept you disease free.
Don’t knock it.
I dunno, in this specific case that sounds like one reason to knock it…
Again with your own personal experience. Herd immunity is real. Your claim that it’s not is basically at the same level as claiming the earth is flat.
You seem to think herd immunity requires 100%. It doesn’t. Some of the insanely contagious diseases like measles have a threshold of 95-98%, but most aren’t that high.
Now I’m a ghoul.
Yes, if you oppose vaccines!
Dude, plague is endemic in the American west in the prairie dog population.
You’d lose that bet…the bubonic plague is still around. Man, you’re ignorant.
You’re still a jerk. I doubt that’ll ever change.
Ignorance and belligerence do not a good combination make.
Just giving them back some of their own stuff lady. I’d prefer you speak redneck though if you don’t mind. I rarely use the word belligerence.
You’re still breath-takingly ignorant. I am positive that will not change.
Are all Merck employees jerks like you?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/27cc675f2ca40db1de0f72f8f6c4099ee89b28985913e0764ca13807f0ad9d31.jpg Downvoted and flagged for shill accusation.
Dottie: “You know something? You’re not nice.”
Ernie” “Ooooo, that one hurt. So long milk maids.”
That’s right and you’re not either. I keep adding people to the blacklist. You get no more responses.
And yet, two comments down from here, you call Shay a jerk. You are the only one calling names; we are stating facts and poking gentle fun at someone who clearly is in way, way over his head here.
It must be rough being a jerk. Does your mother still love you?
Must be rough being as dumb as you. Does your mother still love you? I know mine would be very disappointed if I made such a fool of myself.
Listen lady I’ve been showing you evidence that vaccines are dangerous for 3 days. Not only that but also showed you evidence that the research saying vaccines are safe IS FRAUDULENT. There are now millions of families with autistic children and most of these children can’t live independently and it’s costing these families thousands and thousands of dollars to take care of them. I stand with those families and I get a little perturbed when someone who stands with Merck instead CALLS ME A FOOL.
Yes we all have been enjoying the “evidence” you have posted in the form of YouTube videos over the last couple of days.
Thanks for cheering us up this cold December.
Nice to have a laugh, isn’t it?
And we have been showing you evidence that your evidence is faulty and provided better evidence to show that vaccines are safe and effective.
Also, we don’t stand with Merck, We stand with science
You have shown Youtube videos and any number of BS graphs and charts, and you have made excuses for not showing which studies are fraudulent and how that has been established, but you have not shown credible evidence of anything except your own obstinacy.
I’d rather be autistic than dead. Oh, and vaccines don’t cause autism.
I don’t “stand with Merck” but the nonsense that the person posting as “Dan Bland” puts out suggests that he or she MUST BE A FOOL.
When you mis-use big sciencey words in an audience where many people understand medical science, it does make you appear rather foolish.
“…I’ve been showing you evidence that vaccines are dangerous for 3 days.”
And I could show you evidence that automobiles are dangerous for 3 years.
Wouldn’t change the fact that, as of 2011, there were only 1.13 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (source).
Using your “logic,” no one would ever again drive an automobile because they’re “dangerous.”
I suggest you learn the meaning of the word “proportional.”
I suggest you go visit a family with an autistic child who they have to care for 24/7 and worry who will take care of him when they die.
“I suggest you go visit a family with an autistic child…”
What does that have to do with anything?
A link between autism and vaccinations has never been scientifically proven.
Besides, the anecdotal evidence I’ve seen seems to contradict your anecdotal evidence.
I’ll tell you what has been proven. It has been proven that the CDC can’t be trusted in conducting research on whether vaccines cause autism or not. Why did they trash the data proving vaccines cause autism? Does the vaccine industry have puppets in administrative positions in the CDC? That’s what it sounds like to me.
“I’ll tell you what has been proven.”
No you can’t.
” It has been proven that the CDC can’t be trusted…”
No, that hasn’t been proven.
“Why did they trash the data proving vaccines cause autism?”
They did no such thing.
“That’s what it sounds like to me.”
That’s what it sounds like to you?
It sounds to me like you need an appointment with your otolaryngologist.
Throwing papers in the trash can is NOT destroying data. I can print out my whole Disqus profile, shred it, and throw it in the recycling bin, but I’d sure be ignorant if I thought that erased what I’ve said.
Dan, I’ve been a care provider for a severely autistic individual. It still didn’t change my mind about vaccines. They don’t have anything to do with each other. The mother had several children and her autistic son wasn’t her first child. She noticed at birth he behaved differently. She didn’t blame vaccines at all. She doesn’t blame vaccines for any autism.
As a first time mom, I don’t know that I would pick up on early signs of autism. I really have no other baby to compare him to.
If the baby didn’t show immediate symptoms after vaccinations then I bet it would be hard to make the connection that vaccines caused the autism but I have heard at least 50 testimonies in which parents tell of their babies getting vaccinations and then immediately start horrific screaming that doesn’t end, fevers, seizures, terrible bowel problems. They go back to the ER and the doctors say it’s nothing to worry about and give them Tylenol which I think makes the problem worse. These babies just continue to get worse and regress until finally some specialist much later diagnoses autism.
“…it would be hard to make the connection that vaccines caused the autism…”
It would be hard because it would be impossible.
“…but I have heard at least 50 testimonies…”
Perhaps you have some anecdotal evidence for your screed, but I have contrary anecdotal evidence.
“…which I think…”
The evidence right here in this very thread contradicts that assertion.
It must be rough being stupid AND ineducable. Does anybody love you?
Not really helpful info.
What would be more informative would be the evolution of the death rate of people who actually caught tetanus.
And the prevalence of the disease, regardless of if they die or leave.
Then you could also possibly compare the rate of vaccination in the affected people with the rate of vaccination of the whole population.
What happened in 1950 to cause the tetanus deaths to drop suddenly, I wonder?
Was the introduction to tetanus toxoid vaccine into the routine childhood immunisation schedule in 1949 anything to do with it?
Go get your boosters Mike and be sure to ask for extra aluminum and mercury. And human FETAL tissue on top.
There is no fetal tissue in any vaccine, no tissue of any type, in fact. However, I do request extra thimerosal (NOT mercury) whenever my family gets their ‘flu shots. Sadly, there’s none in those either, because every provider we go to uses individually portioned vaccines, just like 70% of the US market.
I went to this page and searched for the word human and there were 20 matches. You can do the same,
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf
You might want to read the first line under the title. The one that said that this list also includes the mediums used to create the vaccine and that those are then removed. Granted, they are present in ‘trace’ amount. Which means basically nothing, and we are not even talking about ‘cells’ we are talking about trace amounts of destroyed cells debris.
And even there, what’s the big deal? Is it the human or foetal part that you are bothered with?
I’m pregnant, I have foetal cells from my baby making it in my bloodstream. It happens to all pregnant women. And women pregnant with male babies aren’t becoming hermaphrodites or anything. Nothing very particular is happening. And you think the ‘trace’ amount in a vaccine is a worry?
Or is it the human part? Hey, guess what also contain ‘human DNA’ Blood or plasma transfusion, corneal graft also.
It only takes trace amounts.
Then why am I not currently dying or my immune system isn’t killing my baby? I have more than ‘trace’ amount of baby in my bloodstream right now.
Lady you need help.
Why? Because I’m pointing out to you that having foetal cells in your bloodstream is a normal occurrence of pregnancy.
You are the one who thinks that having even 1 foetal protein in my bloodstream is going to fuck all my immune system.
Also, vaccines are not injected in the bloodstream, educate yourself.
Your bloodstream is performing a miracle but none of your baby’s antigens are entering your bloodstream. If they are prove it to me.
Dude, yes they are, it’s a normal part of pregnancy.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707641895
They tests genetic disease in baby by taking blood samples of mother. They can find out the sex of the baby or tests for Down syndrome with the mother’s blood.
And cells themselves do contain a very large amounts of antigens.
Actually I work in transplant medicine, Dan, and yes, female patients do routinely become sensitized as a result of pregnancy. Likely due to the fetal antigens/cells which do, in fact, linger in their bloodstream for years afterward.
Oh get your arrogant learnin’ and facts out of here, will ya!
Not only that, but there is evidence that these fetal cells hang around for potentially decades after the baby is born, and they may *improve* her health.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/10/26/449966350/fetal-cells-may-protect-mom-from-disease-long-after-the-babys-born
Can you answer her question please, and stop with the evasion?
*Trace Amounts* Dun dun dunnnnnn
Some vaccines, like the rubella vaccine, are cultured on a human cell substrate. However, cells are not tissue. Neither are present in the finished product. Even the Roman Catholic Church approves of vaccines that were produced using those cell lines (which are many generations removed from their source) because of the great value to saving lives and improving their quality by prevention of those diseases.
Are you really this uninformed, or is this a put-on to get attention?
Listen lady cells…tissue…it doesn’t matter. All it takes is a protein……one protein….when the protein is injected directly into the bloodstream bypassing the majority of the immune system it is detected by antibodies and the antibodies do their job. Now if that human protein is similar to a protein in the body somewhere. That is when the antibodies are tricked and start attacking the body it is suppose to protect. When this happenes the result is an autoimmune disease.
*cough* blood transfusion.
Also, weird how my body is not currently mounting an immense immure response to my baby’s cells right now.
And no, one protein is not all that it takes. The body won’t start an immune response for one protein.
The simplest virions consist of two basic components: nucleic acid (single- or double-stranded RNA or DNA) and a protein coat, the capsid, which functions as a shell to protect the viral genome from nucleases and which during infection attaches the virion to specific receptors exposed on the prospective host cell.
And? What does that has to do with traces amount of pieces of foetal cells?
Are you just spouting random facts and trying to use big words just to make yourself look smart?
Also, The body won’t mount an immune response to 1 virus. If it did, we wouldn’t need adjutants and vaccines would contain even less viral material.
A virus is an antigen. Do you understand that? Made up of protein and nucleus acids.
Yes, but 1 antigen alone doesn’t not produce an immune response. The possible trace amounts of foetal tissues are not a big deal
What is a “nucleus acid”?
A virus is an antigen in roughly the same way that a warehouse is carbon monoxide.
OMG. *dying*
Update this lady with vaccines. She’s dying.
*dying*
Since I’m a Thinking Mom, I can tell this means she’s laughing her behind off. (Figuratively, in case I need to explain this, too.)
You got it, Rudy. I see your dilutional mind is up and running this morning!
I’ve diluted with coffee. That evil elixir that renders homeopathy ineffective.
I haven’t diluted with nearly enough coffee for this BS.
Can any of you people here carry on a discussion without being so condescending?
Yeah, everyone. These snarky replies aren’t conducive to discussion. Dan can’t just cut and paste from anti-vax sites in response to snark and condescension. Stick to the script!
Can you carry on a discussion without being so ignorant?
Prove to me the body won’t produce antibodies agains one virus. Cite your sources. I’ll treat you like I’ve been treated since I’ve been here.
Prove to me that it does
Good night.
Well, you see, YOU came here to try and educate us. So really, if YOU think foetal cells are a problem, it’s YOUR job to prove they are.
It has been proven that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases. Many of the payouts from the VICP were for autoimmune diseases. So…of all the ingredients in vaccines which one would you suspect to be the cause of the immune system attacking the body it is suppose to protect. I’d suspect the ingredient most similar to human tissue. For example, in the case of type 1 diabetes, I’d suspect the ingredient most resembling beta cells.
Proven by whom? When and where did they prove it?
So, you should be able to cite them, right?
And no, it has not been proven. One small working group has a pet hypothesis rejected for lack of foundation by the rest of the scientific community.
Do you believe in chemtrails too? How ’bout lizard overlords?
You get no more responses from me either. I’ll only talk to the civil people here from now on.
So you can’t list the names or case numbers? What a shock.
This from someone who vaguely threatened this blog’s owner. You do know that you continue to comment here at her pleasure, right? For the entertainment value you provide as an intellectual chew-toy.
Much of what you espouse is not supported by evidence and some is frankly just made up from whole cloth. However, even weaponised ignorance is curable. Give it some thought.
Says the a$$hole who started tossing out shill accusations yesterday the first time someone proved him wrong.
He’s a truther, too, so I wouldn’t be surprised
Yeah I saw that he’s a troofer. And displays concern for the purity of our bodily fluids (anti-fluoride) and seem okay with bringing back cholera (anti-chlorination). I’m unclear why he doesn’t hang out at NatchrulNoise or some other idiot’s blog?
“It has been proven that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases.”
No. That hasn’t been proven.
Certainly not in any scientific understanding of the word “proven.”
I can see that your amateur pseudoscientific take on immunity might go down well on websites frequented by scientific ignorami such as Age of Autism, but you seem to be struggling rather a lot here Dan, with your lame attempts to make sense.
“Prove to me the body won’t produce antibodies agains one virus. Cite your sources.”
The fact that small quantities of antigen do not evoke significant clinical immune responses should be prima facie evidence. This is why some vaccines require larger quantities of the attenuated virus than would be needed to cause disease if the virus were wild-type. And as Azuran has explained, many vaccinations also require adjuvants to enhance the immune response to the antigens, because it is suboptimal.
There are many sources explaining how the immune response is dependent not just upon the type of antigen, the timing and the route of exposure, but also the dose. Immunoreactivity is dose dependent.
PMID 9176709
There are exceptions – prior sensitisation can lead to a situation where re-exposure to even tiny amounts of antigen can induce anaphylaxis. But that isn’t the scenario you are talking about.
So what if it does? That’s what the immune system is SUPPOSED to do – to create antibodies to remove pathogens.
Our bodies are producing antibodies all the friggin time, against all sorts of things we encounter.
I don’t get it. You act like that is a BAD thing?
. I’ll treat you like I’ve been treated since I’ve been here.
They keep asking him for evidence, the meanies.
I’ll go with “spouting random facts” for $500, Alex.
“Are you just spouting random facts and trying to use big words just to make yourself look smart?”
Clearly.
Dan’s copy pasting from some science text, without attribution.
When he tries out the words for himself, he gets them wrong (eg “nucleus acid” instead of “nucleic acid”). He clearly hasn’t even done basic school biology.
Look everybody! Dan has learned the fine art of copy-paste:
https://quizlet.com/104179417/biology-flash-cards/
Look everybody Jen is a jerk.
Look, everyone, Dan is a thief, trying to pass off non-attributed cut-and-pasted material as his own thoughts.
I did cut and paste a couple of times last night. You understood that so it should have been obvious what I was doing.
Aw shucks, I do it, too. I’ll own up to that.
In fact this morning I just copied and pasted a meaningless graph and a youtube video. Totally guilty.
That’s interesting, since your war cry all day yesterday was “cite your sources.”
Not really sure what you are even saying, but if you are saying is all it takes is only one human protein in the bloodstream to elicit an immune response that then develops into an autoimmune disease then woooah. What? I’m sure all of us have had others’ DNA make contact with our bloodstream. During intercourse microabrasions occur within the vagina. I’ve had sex and I never had an immune reaction.
“Listen lady…” Hilarious!
Why would anyone here listen to some numpty anti-vaxer trying to explain pseudo-immunology?
Jerk
What proteins are “injected directly into the blood stream”?
How does something which according to you “bypasses the majority of the immune system” evoke an immune response?
Why is autoimmune disease not universal, if even a single protein will cause it? Why do those who get blood transfusions (who receive thousands of foreign human proteins directly into the bloodstream) not all develop autoimmune disease?
If you come up with a bizarre pathogenetic hypothesis like you have, shouldn’t you have some evidence of biological plausibility?
And you do??
Hilarious.
“lady cells” LOLOLOLOL
Lady is a jerk.
Whence comes your knowledge?
when the protein is injected directly into the bloodstream
Which vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream, Dan? Name them.
you don’t deserve any more responses from me. Sorry buddy.
No one, and I mean no one deserves your misguided misinformation posts, either.
What an ingrate, to repay thusly the many people here who are trying to shine a light into the darkness of your ignorance.
Can you answer her question?
Which vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream?
I went to medical school and learned biochemistry, immunology and toxicology, and how to interpret scientific studies. Unfortunately, it seems that “Dan” can’t do the same.
Jerk.
I sure will.
Now, can you answer my question please?
What’s the difference in being punctured with a nail with the bacteria and being punctured by the booster. Shouldn’t you produce antibodies both ways?
Thanks for visiting, Dan. Your contribution here shows how scienitifically ignorant anti-vaxers can be. It’s very instructive to passing readers.
Another jerk. Why are there so ,any jerks here?
FTFY.
Because you come in and act like we’re the problem after flinging insults left and right. We aren’t the jerks, you are.
You know antibiotics were discovered about that time. Maybe that had something to do with it,
The tetanus toxin doesn’t give a fuck about antibiotics, by the time you are diagnosed with Tetanus, even if you clear the bacterial infection with your antibiotics, the toxin is still present. It’s binding to the neuron is irreversible. You can only wait until the neurons heal, which takes weeks.
Well maybe people aren’t stepping on as many rusty nails now. Heck back then kids played outside and had fun. Now they’re glued to some computer.
Or maybe it’s because whenever someone steps on a rusty nails, they give a tetanus booster.
Why would they need a booster? Didn’t the rusty nail introduce the antigen?
Natural immunity to tetanus is actually not very good.
And to get natural immunity, you have to be infected with freaking tetanus.
With the booster, you get immunity without getting the disease.
Tetanus is not a mild disease. Even today, it still has a death rate that can go as high as 10%. And those who make in through don’t have a mild case of ‘flu like symptoms’ We are talking full body paralysis and muscles spasms for weeks, tube feeding, possibly needing a ventilator to be able to breath, possible bone of breaking fractures. And then, multiple
weeks of readaptation.
I have seen what tetanus can do, it’s not pretty.
Natural immunity to tetanus doesn’t exist at all. The toxin is so potent that a lethal dose is far less than what’s required for the immune system to learn to make antibodies to it. Only by denaturing the toxin and adding adjuvants can we get it to a level where the body will learn it and adapt to it. Without vaccines, there is no immunity to it at all.
Yes, but the point of tetanus vaccine is not to provide antibodies against the antigen, but to provide antitoxin. The vaccine won’t prevent the tetanus bacteria releasing toxin, so to ensure there are adequate levels of antitoxin around to mop up what the tetanus would produce, a booster shot is usually given. A bit unecessary, I know, but many people say better safe than sorry.
Maybe this chart, which you helpfully provided, might demonstrate that charts can prove anything!:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3709c58515a122706d00ca7f45d2d8ddc9ed5cbe338de92bf30980ae5b082b2e.jpg
Here’s a chart with the requisite evidence supporting it required for the Thinking Moms to believe it. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0694357cfa6d04766f82075ba94ab60670d0db57c63043ccfc5b9a2aef1e400e.png
As a future mother, I declare this as the truth. Which according to Dan, is all the proof needed.
In the 80’s I played outside and had fun. Playing parc, grassland with cows, woods, a stream,…
Ditto – I lived on a farm.
Kids were not glued to computers in the 50’s.
Funny how kids “stopped stepping on rusty nails” just after the vaccine was put on the vaccination schedule, huh?
I suppose the shot must have provoked a tremendous fear of sharp objects, and these were studiously avoided by all vaccine recipients.
Dude. You’re embarrassing yourself.
In your dilutional mind maybe
Good morning, Dan! Let’s not abrogate the niceties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_u3YRZb74w
My dilutional mind is quite well developed, actually. I have to create serial dilutions for work every day. XD
A dilutional mind. That is so trippy.
Coffee. Dan. Coffee. Or tea. Or Mtn Dew. Or ‘awaken’ essential oil blend $65/oz. Spit spot.
Or better yet: Coffiest. Breakfast and coffee in one!!! (beurk)
Oh well, gtg see the baby doctor. For some weird reason she want’s to make extra sure it’s healthy before she start poisoning her with her vaccines :p
Gotta get going early!
Don’t forget the lady cells!
Very fickle these docs. You’d think they actually wanted people to have healthy babies the way they sometimes carry on…
I suppose you’ve never misspelled a word before. Now she thinks she’s perfect too. Wow maybe we should all bow down before you and worship you.
No, honey. See, “delusional” is a completely different word than “dilutional.”
*dilutional*
So you’re into homeopathy, too?
I LOL’d. ^5
You are on the blacklist too. No more responses from me.
So, you come here to argue your nonesense with us and get mad at us for not taking your youtube video seriously, then you ‘blacklst’ us. That’s like, so 3 years old.
He said he would turn off notifications and stop responding 2 days ago.
Like everything else he said, it was a lie.
Maybe he can’t quit us because deep down he knows we might just be on to something with this whole “vaccines are safe and effective” thing…
BLACKLISTED! For shame, @MaineJen:disqus !!!
Following a tornado, public health departments see a spike in demand for tetanus shots. After the tornado in Washington, IL in 2013 the Tazewell County HD put two RNs in a car with a supply of vaccines and had them follow the Red Cross vehicles around. They administered almost 300 vaccinations in the week following the tornado.
I refer you to the Handbook of Bioterrorism and Disaster Medicine, p. 62.
In 1950 kids were inside glued to their computers?
What?
The drop in tetanus deaths occurred from the 1950s.
Don’t you read the comments here, or do you just fire off abuse?
Unlikely, seeing how the effect of antibiotics is virtually zero once someone has developed tetanus. You do know how tetanus kills people, I hope?
Horribly.
Antibiotics were discovered in 1950? I wonder how sulfa and penicillin came to be so widely used 1939-1945. Perhaps the military medical establishment had a time machine?
One of my goals at some point is to write a book that I will call “The Necessity that is the Mother of Invention,” about all the great scientific developments of WW2. Penicillin was discovered before WW2 (in 27, I think) but came to prominence during the war for obvious reasons (and not so obvious reasons, like to cure VD, being one of the main ones)
Are you familiar with the US Army’s Borden Institute? Some fascinating stuff there. That’s where I learned everything I know about wound ballistics (which is not very much, admittedly, and pretty much limited to the 19th century).
http://www.cs.amedd.army.mil/borden/
shay said, “pretty much limited to the 19th century”
Learned a lot about the effects of the .45-70 405gr bone smasher/buffalo killer?
Or maybe something more “traditional” like the 1861 Springfield with the .58 Minié ball?
I happen to know someone who owns an original CW Springfield muzzle loader. Bought it back in the 1960s when nobody wanted them and they were giving them away.
Mostly .58 and .52 caliber, with a little grape and canister thrown in.
My father was in the NSSA (black-powder shooters, not re-enactors).
http://www.n-ssa.org/
The problem with original weapons is that they are rarely in good enough shape to actually shoot.
You realise that in the scientific community YouTube videos aren’t regarded as evidence?
Ok mr scientist I’ll quit posting YouTube videos. I apologize.
Snort!
Ha ha ha ha ha! I mean, yes, that’s very sad that after he had a tetanus shot some bad things happened. But this video provides zero evidence that it was CAUSED by the vaccination.
*Trace Amounts* *Fuzzy Focus* *Ominous Music* Dun dun duuunnnnnn
There are very few studies on vaccinated vs unvaccinated children. An experiment reported just this year is being discredited again and removed from the Internet. Why? Because of these conclusions:
“A total of 415 mothers provided data on 666 children, of which 261 (39%) were unvaccinated. Vaccinated children were significantly less likely than the unvaccinated to have been diagnosed with chickenpox and pertussis, but significantly more likely to have been diagnosed with pneumonia, otitis media, allergies and NDDs (defined as Autism Spectrum Disorder, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, and/or a learning disability).”
Read more at http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/12/01/first-ever-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-children-removed-web/#IMjzSBBOYF5eCSiG.99
Do you ever bother to check your sources? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8988160b0ef8678b1253af43add2ff6030d29d1fbd8f61601b844dffcb78290.png
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3aa4d602fced86ff34d26d98ea9f0d81132b7b6406e8cbd84d8ffc6972f1a0ec.jpg
Do you admit you were wrong and there are in fact a lot of studies comparing the two groups?
There have been a few and I think that’s what I said. You’re a jerk you know that?