My fear

Nazi mit Baseballschl?ger

In the aftermath of this election I am afraid of so many things.

I am afraid that my beloved country will move backwards and retreat from the vaunted American respect for minorities, immigrants, the poor and the disenfranchised.

This election was not democracy in action; it was nascent fascism in action.

I’m afraid that my country will betray its ideals and give religion a central place in a government whose founding principles included the separation of church and state.

I’m afraid that the environment will be ruined, business will run amok without regulation, and the economy will enter a severe recession or even depression.

And I’m afraid that my party, the Democratic party, will draw the wrong message from the election results.

I’ve been reading a lot about the election as a repudiation of the elites by blue collar workers. Democrats had become out of touch with the suffering of lower middle class white people, suffering that came from the same sources that powered the rise of the elites to their positions of influence and wealth. I don’t disagree with that … but I don’t believe that is why Donald Trump was elected over Hillary Clinton.

Sure, the Democrats had a flawed candidate. Hillary Clinton brought a lot of baggage into the race; she is reflexively distrusted by people who have marinated in 25 years of non-stop Republican hate and lies. And that’s before we add in the misogyny on the part of many voters … but I don’t believe that is why Donald Trump was elected over Hillary Clinton.

Sure, the Democrats had their problems including scandals with Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her replacement Donna Brazile… but I don’t believe that’s why Donald Trump was elected over Hillary Clinton.

If we blame Clinton’s loss on these factors I fear we have missed the central point about this election: only one candidate, Hillary Clinton, was running for President. Donald Trump, in contrast was running for Strongman.

Trump, a serial liar, philanderer, cheater, sexual predator and failed business man was running as a fascist and was elected precisely because he promised, as fascists always do, to make the trains run on time. He will do so, in the time honored tradition of fascists, by seizing control of government, exploiting it to enrich himself and his family, and diverting the masses by sanctioning hate against the traditionally despised.

This was an election like no other. Hillary Clinton didn’t merely face Donald Trump, she faced the combined efforts of Fox News, Breitbart, the unreasoning hatred of Republican lawmakers who have wasted millions of taxpayer dollars trying to smear her, the hacking of her campaign and the release of unflattering private emails, the technical and political might of the Russian dictator Vladimir Putin and the political bias of the FBI director who violated protocol to make egregious insinuations that he later was forced to retract.

Those forces were determined to prevent her election by means legal or illegal and they succeeded.

They wanted to elect a demagogue so they could use him to enact an agenda that is both distinctly un-American and profoundly dangerous to American interests. What is that agenda? They, from the alt-right through Putin, want to create chaos and Donald Trump is undoubtedly the chaos candidate.

This was not just another election where two parties faced off against each other. This was a unique election where one party faced off against forces of both internal and external actors who seeks to take America from a shining city on a hill to a cesspool of racism, financial turmoil and diminished international power and influence.

Trying to make sense of this campaign by casting it as the elites against the blue collar workers is not only wrong, but it blinds us to the true forces at work. It’s like blaming the accession of Hitler in Germany on the fact that the other parties didn’t have compelling candidates. Hitler didn’t come to power because of what the opposition did; he came to power because of what he did to engineer his ascent by means legal and illegal.

Trump didn’t come to power because Hillary Clinton was a flawed candidate. He has come to power because of what he and his erstwhile allies did, both legal and illegal, to engineer his victory.

And that doesn’t even take into account that the Republicans spent 8 years questioning the legitimacy of Obama’s presidency and refusing to act on his nominations and legislative priorities. The Republicans did it so they could discredit a Democratic president and keep him from helping the very people who voted for Trump. “The government is broken!” Trump voters cry and they’re right, but it was the Republicans who broke it, not the Democrats.

Trump voters claim they don’t want politics as usual; they’ve gotten their wish and I’m afraid they and the rest of us will pay dearly as a result.

We were manipulated into selecting the candidate of the KKK, the American Nazi party, and Vladimir Putin. We have elected evil; we have elected hate; we have elected dirty dealing.

So don’t tell me that Democrats could have won if we had only selected a more popular candidate. Who else but Hillary Clinton could have withstood the abuse, and the lies, and hacking of her campaign and the efforts of Vladimir Putin and still have remained standing, let alone get elected? No one.

So don’t tell me we need to heal or that we need to reach across the aisle or we need to listen to the blue collar workers.

So don’t tell me to calm down because it can’t be all that bad. When you elect an evil, hateful, double-dealing predator as Strongman, you are going to get evil and hate and double-dealing and violation of rights, and the enrichment of the Trump family and their cronies. We just have to hope against hope that we won’t get depression and war to go along with it.

And whatever you do, don’t tell me that we need to accept the results of this election because that’s how democracy works, because this election was NOT democracy in action, it was nascent fascism in action.

  • Amy

    So I have a funny story for all of you. That troll that Dr. Amy banned? Laura someone or other? Thought *I* was Dr. Amy and went around replying to Disqus comments of mine on other blogs and articles, comments that had nothing to do with this post.

    In her first such reply, she began, “Hah! Found you!” And proceeded to insult “me” aka Dr. Amy. I’m dying.

  • Daleth

    Third-party voters are the political equivalent of antivaxxers. They felt safe voting for Jill Stein even in swing states (I have friends who did that despite my best arguments) because they were depending on herd immunity to keep disaster at bay.

    By herd immunity I mean the millions of people who voted for Hillary–that very necessary task that the third-party folks found so distasteful and morally impure: they wanted other people to do it, they trusted that enough other people would do it, but god forbid they dirty their precious hands by doing it themselves.

    But as we’ve been telling them for so many years, herd immunity only works above a certain threshold. And they need to help us reach that threshold.

    This advice columnist pretty much says it:
    http://dearcoquette.com/on-knowing-better/

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      Many third party voters who get so excited about someone who comes out of almost no where, and runs for President don’t want to bother with the grunt level work of finding people to run for their party at the Board of Aldermen, town council, school board level. The Tea Party was smart about that, they ran for and got elected in local elections and then State level elections etc. It’s not quick, it’s not Rock Star – follow the charismatic leader, but it worked…

      • Daleth

        That is exactly the problem. I’m so tired of progressives whining that nobody gives third parties a fair shot, when the reason we have no viable third parties is because nobody wants to do the actual day-to-day work of building one. People love showing up every four years to run for president and complain about being shut out of the debates, but ask Jill Stein, Ralph Nader or whoever to run a local or state race that they could actually win and start doing the actual job of being a civil servant, and you hear nothing but crickets.

        • Amazed

          You know what infuriates me here? It isn’t even those who vote for the fear and the candidate who will pay low obeisance to Putin. It’s the people who whine, “Just how stupid can we get? How could we elect someone like HIM?” when they didn’t bother to take a walk to where they should give their vote in the first place. *I* can honestly say I didn’t choose him because I went over there and gave my voice for who I thought was the best candidate. I didn’t stay home and complain later.

          I am not even surprised when people vote for the white knight on his/her white horse who’s gonna save them and save the day. I think some people actually vote TWKOHHWH BECAUSE they are basically a non-entity in the arena of politics, so they can be laden with people’s hopes. To expect experience and work having been done by such peope? That’s so *establishment*!

          I think parts of that, with local variations, are valid for all countries in the world.

          • Heidi

            Eh, I can understand not voting if you feel pretty sure your vote won’t count. It’s that way in TN.

          • Amazed

            I can understand this as well. But I can’t understand not voting and then saying, “How could WE choose this or that?” That’s sheer complaining to me. At least try to do your part. Because else, you just let things happen.

            I have friends who refused to give their vote because they didn’t think any of the candidates was someone they’d like to follow. My mom was on the verge of doing this. Nothing wrong with that. I have friends who didn’t go over there to vote because they wanted it to be known that the president became president without the support of the vast majority of people who didn’t go over there. I can respect their position. But none of them says, “What a stupid nation we are for choosing him!”

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            If enough people feel/act that way their vote doesn’t count. Even TN is not a monolith, one thing Benchmark Politics website did was let you look at voting patterns at county level. There are some big blue blobs around Nashville and Memphis. Local elections count, voting in the primaries(not just presidential primaries) also counts. We need to make registering to vote easier and more states need to have vote by mail and early voting.

          • Heidi

            I do think in TN, could be wrong, that even if we had a 100% voter turn out Trump would have won the state. Memphis and Nashville are our biggest cities but I think not big enough to carry us.

            A few years ago I went to go buy a door at a local business and I was barraged by anti-liberal, pro-NRA propaganda from the salesman. Absolutely thought nothing of it because I just guessed he assumed everyone in the area would support him. I didn’t buy a door to say the least. I can understand how being barraged daily with Don’t Tread on Me, NRA, confederate flag, Nobama, Clinton for Jail, Make America Great Again, anti-abortion propaganda could inspire hopelessness and inaction. My experience with people who plaster their car in these bumper stickers isn’t like, “Oh we’ll have to agree to disagree.” They are full of rage and hate. You start to hit a wall when you try to be reasonable with the unreasonable.

            It wasn’t that long ago my state did vote primarily Democratic. I hope we get there again one day. The answer isn’t to stay home and not vote because you never know what year might be the year we turn back. But I do understand it.

    • Mark

      I think part of this problem has to do with DNC itself and some of the party insiders.

      Their is a feeling that the party leaders hold too much sway and thankfully the superdelegates, two thirds will be tied to the electorate.

      Their is also a feeling that ‘outsiders’ are not welcome. Bernie Sanders only became a democrat recently so it is perfectly acceptable for the party establishment inside the DNC to be bias and tilt the election one way.

      Thankful that DNC apologized for that for breaking their stated goal of being neutral. Sanders backed Hillary.

      I said to someone flat out if you think it is ok for the DNC to rig the process against the outside candidate then do you think expect unity at the end of the process and don’t whine about third party candidates.

      So I say, if the DNC leaders insist on not running a fair primary if the DNC insists on being an arm of one candidate over another. The our cries of unity will ring shallow.

      If the process is deemed fair then our argument for unity and against third parties will be stronger.

      Even now Wasserman-Shultz thinks nothing was wrong with her ‘mild’ tampering in the democratic primary.

      That is the attitude that fuels some third party support.

      IMHO

      • Daleth

        I am troubled that the DNC played favorites, and annoyed because I think she would’ve won anyway and it tainted her campaign a little bit.

        That said, can you tell me specifically what they did that constitutes “rigging” it? It’s obvious that DNC leadership wanted her to win, but that’s a desire, not an action. As far as I’ve been able to find, the only concrete thing any of them DID was trade ideas about targeting Bernie’s atheism as a way of turning religious Democrats off him. And you know what? That is the first thing the GOP would have done if he had won the nomination.

        Atheism was a weakness Bernie had as a candidate–it shouldn’t be, but it is among many American voters, and I think it’s entirely legit for the DNC to be concerned about any potential nominee’s weaknesses. It was wrong for them to be trying to help Hillary (or any candidate over another), but it’s absolutely reasonable for a party to consider a candidate’s weaknesses when deciding, for instance, how superdelegates will vote.

        • Mark

          That is basically my point and idea.

          You might even say it is possible it helped Sanders, the DNC games.

          I am st work so can’t get a good link on how it was biased

          Of the top of my head Sanders wanted more debates and not during major sporting events

          I agree Hillary would probably have won (can not say definitively ) and she would of been stronger w/o that cloud over her head

  • Empress of the Iguana People

    Oh, for heavens sake. Now Laura J responded to me on the NewsHour about her stupid wall. On Gwen Ifill’s memorial page!

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/fellow-journalists-political-leaders-and-viewers-offer-tributes-to-gwen/

    • Heidi

      Oh is that what she was up to? She followed me and I undid it. I have bad news for her. My disqus account gets almost solely used for this blog from which she’s been banned anyway.

    • Gatita

      FYI you can change the settings on your Disqus account so that people can’t see the other sites you visit.

      • Empress of the Iguana People

        Hmm, didn’t know that. Thanks! Not too worried about it in this case, though. I was more bothered by her gall of popping into a memorial page and not even bothering to offer condolences to the family. The goldfish is a separate issue.

  • CNM

    Thank you. We must stand up and fight.

  • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

    Call your state GOP office and complain. Call your US Senator and House Rep and complain. Call your state newspapers and news stations and complain. Be polite and clear and firm that you find this crap inappropriate. Tweeting and Facebook posts aren’t enough.

  • Amy

    The whole “elites versus regular old folks” thing only works if we cast EVERYONE OTHER THAN working class whites as “elite.” The poor and working and middle classes of every other racial and ethnic group broke for Clinton. The ONLY people who went for Trump were white people.

    We get to call this an election about economics only by completely ignoring race. This was an election about race. pure and simple.

    • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

      Specifically middle / upper class white people. People with money typically do vote Republican. Under Trump they’ll get a tax break.

      • Anna D

        Even middle and upper class people will not get much of a tax-break, if anything at all. About 51% of single parent households will be paying more taxes under proposed new tax regime in all tax brackets until $560k income. Families with 3 kids or more also will be penalized as number of dependents will not be counted towards standard tax deduction. The people who will really reap benefits are the ones in 0.1%, i.e making more than 3mm, and on average those households will pay about $1mm less in taxes. So we will be subsidizing lovely family and businesses of President Trump.

        • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

          Well, yes, of course. But that won’t keep people with Great Expectations from voting for the guy who says he’ll lower their taxes.

          • Anna D

            To be fair, in this election, people really did not vote for him because his stances on the tax issues, and people who are actually will be better off in the proposed tax regime overwhelmingly voted against him.

    • N

      Just a shame that it happened right after your first black president. It sounds a bit as if the white man are taking back what was there’s at presidential level. 🙁

      • LaMont

        The “take our country back” language makes me shudder. I’m super embarrassed to be white right now, but it could be worse and I could be Christian too – the Christian block was majorly pro-Trump but literally every other religious group broke against him, with Jews and the nonreligious leading. Super weird.

        • FallsAngel

          Many people have used that phrase “take our country back” including Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and Al Franken. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article24782779.html

          The “Christian block” was not majorly pro-Trump! First of all, I don’t know what the “Christian block” is! There are many Christian denominations.

          • LaMont

            http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

            Protestant: 39% HRC, 58% Trump
            White Catholics: 37% HRC, 60% Trump
            White Evangelicals: 16% HRC, 81% Trump
            Mormon: 25% HRC, 61% Trump

            Meanwhile –
            Jews: 71% HRC, 24% Trump
            No Religion: 68% HRC, 26% Trump

          • FallsAngel

            You do realize that White Evangelicals are a subset of “Protestant”. Wait, maybe you don’t, if you’re ignorant of religion.

          • LaMont

            I do know this, and I’m wearingly aware of religion, it’s just that this subset of Protestants, due to their size and beliefs, is worth splitting apart. By highlighting this subset, Pew Research (and I, in quoting them) at least elaborates that the more moderate overall “Protestant” numbers are partly being driven by White Evangelicals.

            And if you’d like to challenge my claim that overall, Christians and Christian sects weren’t a powerful Trump block, while others stood for HRC, feel free 🙂

          • FallsAngel

            If you wish to have an internet argument, you’ll have to find someone else.

          • LaMont

            Aw, after having my facts challenged, and being incorrectly insulted as ignorant I thought I was already in one.

          • FallsAngel

            It’s not OK to challenge your facts? Isn’t that what Disqus is all about? And I did not insult you, bub!

          • LaMont

            Ah, there goes the difficulty of reading tone, oy. I realize I haven’t stated I am from the US myself, so I am exposed to religion and aware of it. That’s why being assumed ignorant rankles so much, it’s hard to be ignorant of religion where I’m from, but I suppose it’s possible?

          • FallsAngel

            I did not say you are ignorant, although I’ve found that people who do not have religious beliefs are often quite ignorant of religion, no matter where they live. You, on the other hand, have shown you are disrespectful of religion.

          • LaMont

            Really? That’s strange. I take it you mean ignorant of the religious *experience*? Because Pew also shows that atheists/agnostics score better than believers on knowledge of the “teaching, history, and leading religious figures” themselves. http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

  • shay simmons
  • Kevin

    Hi to all,being from another country looking at you guys on tv as was most of the world, the only comment I can offer is,give Trump a go,it seems to me ( rightly or wrongly ) that a lot of you guys are fearing the worst and perhaps the man might turn out ok.If it turns out for the worst,you can kick him out in four years time.

    • Erin

      From what I can see though, the problem isn’t just Trump. It’s what people think they can do in his name. It’s the old lady who thinks she can now tell someone to “go home” or the thugs over there thinking they’ve just a got a mandate for their boots to do the talking.

      Politicians come and politicians go. The petty hatreds and small mindedness spilling out from this election and the vote for Brexit and the acceptance of the far right as political mainstream, that’s going to much harder to shove back into the box.

      • Kevin

        Once again,not trying to tell you how your country should be run,and yes I see where you are coming from,correct me if I am wrong,I think that you guys did not have much of a choice,to me Hilary projected herself as untrustworthy and Trump was all about beating his chest.I feel for you guys.

        • Erin

          I’m not American. I came for the discussion on obstetrics and stayed for the politics.

          • Kevin

            Fair enough,have a nice day.

        • swbarnes2

          Clinton didn’t project herself as anything. The right wing was making up stories about her for 30 years. A hell of a lot of people didn’t think that a KKK endorsement was a dealbreaker. That has nothing to do with how Clinton was perceived.

    • maidmarian555

      With respect, it doesn’t matter where you live. The largest economy on the globe has just voted in a climate-change denier. The environmental damage America could wreak on the world in four years could be substantial, catastrophic and irreversible. And will effect us all. We should every one of us be afraid. If not for us then for our children. It’s not just the internal/human rights issues that are the problem here.

    • Sean Jungian

      “give Trump a go…lot of you guys are fearing the worst and perhaps the man might turn out ok”

      Yeah, here is why I will NOT be doing that:

      – I don’t recall any Republicans or Tea Partiers sitting the fuck down and shutting the fuck up when Obama was elected (twice!).
      -Trump has proved himself to be a liar, a strongman/fascist, misogynist, racist, and xenophobic. I do not have to wait around quietly while he proves it to me even harder before I speak up
      -This is not the time to be quiet and a good little lady and “can’t we all just get along”? I endured 8 years of hatefulness and inaction from Republicans, being a nice quiet little lady and “being the bigger person”, refraining from making a fuss, resulted in this, where we are now
      -How long do you suggest we wait? We’ve already seen a huge uptick in hate crimes just since last week. How many people do you think I should allow to die before I make a stink? How many women should I let die of infection or bleeding out when they go for illegal abortions, because safe abortion and birth control is no longer available for them? How many Muslims and blacks should I allow to be lynched before I say something? How many Hispanics should I wait to see deported before I speak up?

      This is by no means a “women only” blog but my STARS it IS a feminist blog, and there’s nothing more irritating than some dude waltzing in here and not only mansplaining but European-splaining to me about how I should be a good little American girl and do what I’m told, sit the fuck down, try to get along, meet a totalitarian bigot with NO plan halfway, and “give it a go”.

      Fuck you. Trump used up his chances to prove to me he could lead.

      • N

        Upvoted.

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      Look, this isn’t someone who’s been quietly building his business under the radar. We have seen this jerk for decades. Especially for those of us who can get New York stations on a regular antenna before cable even got to our area. Among his many qualities, he is a major conspiracy theoriest. He thinks vaccines cause autism, that nationwide elections can be rigged, that American Muslims danced in the streets on September 12, 2001, and that Pres. Obama’s birth certificate is a fake. We have no choice but to give him a chance if we want to maintain our republic.
      I at least hope he proves us wrong, stranger things have happened. But we don’t need some musician from away telling us “fear not”. Do you not understand that the Ku Klux Klan approves of him? A group the Nazis could have learned some of their sh!t from?

    • Nick Sanders

      If it turns out for the worst, there may not be a country in four years time.

      • Kevin

        Well it is sad to see a country becoming so divisive,I hope that Trump surprises everyone by doing the right thing.

        • Nick Sanders

          So divise? The man asked why we don’t use our nukes.

          • Kevin

            I agree,nukes should not come into it

        • N

          Yes I from somewhere in Europe hope that too. And yet I have alarm bells ringing in my head. We have Brexit here, and other countries that turn to the “Right”. Enough people that would prefer to let refugees from Syria and other countries drown in their little boats…
          And now there is Trump. A racist with temper tantrums.

          I just want us to not look back at our time in, say 30 years and say: If we had done this, intervened there, we could have prevented “it”. “It” in the worst case being WWIII.

          I would want us to stay vigilant at least.

          • Amazed

            Here, we’re bombarded with the message of what a great problem the refugees are. And it seems to drown out the fact that we’re losing our side of the Black Sea to a huge number (like 500 000, with us being about 6 million) of Russians who buy property here with credits designed by their state specifically for that purpose and live in it all year long. They’re forming huge anclaves where we aren’t allowed to go in the streets. They wave flags reading “Little Russia”. Putin has claimed that he’d go to war to defend Russian citizen all over the world. They live in a part of the country that Stalin was hysterical to get, and the Russian czars before him as well. We just made a very bad (for us, I mean) deal, selling Russia our main telecommunication company. We’re bombarded with propaganda just how good it’ll be for us to become even more dependent on Russia for importing petrol.

            And they’re telling me it’s the refugees I should be most scared of?

            Trump is a bad sign for everyone and no amount of whitewashing and creating huge problems where there aren’t any such can change that. And yet, there are many who like him BECAUSE he’s a racist and Clinton was sure to sparkle the WWIII?

    • Amazed

      OK, are you even serious? Trump literally cannot “turn out” for anything. We’ve watched him far too long. We know what he is. He isn’t a new entity who can turn either way.

      Not American, BTW, but even I knew what Trump was like long before he decided that politics was his new hobby. When did THAT happen, anyway? 2015 or 2014?

      • Empress of the Iguana People

        he’s been dabbling for some time, but mostly in tweets about bengazi and birth certificates

      • Kevin

        Obviously you know more than me.have a nice day.

    • Gatita

      The problem isn’t just Trump. It’s also the people he’s empowered to behave like brown shirts in the streets. The explosion in racial attacks after the election is horrifying and he’s put a straight up white supremacist in a top riole in his administration. The worst is pretty much here.

      • Kevin

        I see where you are coming from.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      Part of the reason Hillary Clinton lost is because of disenfranchised voters in swing states. Also not to put to fine a point on it but global climate change is already outpacing where climate scientists thought we would be by this point. He can appoint Supreme Court judges who will roll back peoples rights concerning gay marriage, and women’s bodily autonomy, and once appointed those judges will probably be in place for DECADES. He is working on appointing people to be in change of huge government department where having an incompetent or white supremacist in charge could cause untold damage. The Attorney general, the State department, the Department of Defense, Departments of Education, Labor, Interior, Health and Human services, etc. The budgets for the National Science foundation, the National Institutes of Health and countless other agencies that do scientific research.

      My daughter goes to a state college that specializes in environmental science. Her school(faculty, staff, students) is terrified of what will happen to their funding and their long term research projects.

      The regulations and work done by OSHA, the EPA, the CDC among many others will probably suffer.

      There are people in the Senate who want to gut Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. They want to “repeal” the Affordable care act, which allowed some of my friends and family to even GET health insurance recently. If that happens people I know will not be able to go to the doctor or afford some of their meds.

      The Republicans control the White House, the Senate and Congress/the House. The amount of damage they can do is enormous. You have no idea what you are talking about.

      Oh and by the way, there are people who are career, mid-level government employees who many times are invited to stay in their positions because they KNOW how everything works and who to talk to in order to get stuff done. A lot of those people have said they will NOT work for Trump. That’s a lot of institution knowledge Gone

      • Kevin

        Thank you for your kind and full response,your comment as to my having no idea was not needed as I pointed out in my post that I was from another country trying to input some friendly advice.

        • LibrarianSarah

          Some friendly advice, when people are seriously concerned and fearful for the future of their country, are afraid of losing programs that they need to survive, or afraid that they may be kicked out of the only country that they know as home, the last thing that they want to hear is the “friendly opinion” of someone who has absolutely no skin in the game. That is especially true if that “friendly opinion” is “maybe it won’t be so bad.”

          There are people here who have very good reason to fear losing everything because of this. The repeal of the DACA alone will destroy the lives of tens of thousands of innocent people. And if you don’t know what DACA is then you really shouldn’t be offering your “friendly opinion” to anybody.

      • FallsAngel

        “Oh and by the way, there are people who are career, mid-level government
        employees who many times are invited to stay in their positions because
        they KNOW how everything works and who to talk to in order to get stuff
        done. A lot of those people have said they will NOT work for Trump.
        That’s a lot of institution knowledge Gone”

        Usually these people are not political appointees. I’d take any threats of quitting jobs with a grain of salt. Remember all those doctors who were going to leave the practice of medicine if the ACA passed? How many did? Darn few, IME, and I work in health care.

        • Kevin

          Where I live, there is a primary school nearby where it has been banned to sing the national anthem because it upsets the Muslim children attending there,AND another school has been banned from raising our flag up because it upsets the Muslim children attending there,TRUE. watch out U.S.A..

          • Gatita
          • Kevin

            Hi went to your site,but no,what I had mentioned happened in real time not far from where I live and it was in the local newspaper in Australia.the two incidents happened here in Australia.The bans are still in place.

          • Gatita

            Wow.

        • shay simmons

          I’m reminded of the many, many senior level officers who swore to resign if Bill Clinton were elected. Amazing how that did not happen.

        • LibrarianSarah

          Well the White House Reference Librarian already left. I know because I saw the position posted. Judging by all the bruhaha that happened when the ALA Washington office posted a press release that stated how libraries will “support the new administration,” it is not going to be an easy fill.

  • MaineJen

    Just made a donation to Planned Parenthood, in honor of one Mike Pence. And they’re going to send him a nice thank you card, because that’s just good manners.

    • nomofear

      Yes! I’ve heard of others doing this. I think it’s lovely. Can you do, like, $5 increments? (Is that too petty?)

      • MaineJen

        Nope, according to the website $5 is the minimum donation. 🙂 Have at it!!

      • Sean Jungian

        $5 is just right!! Donate! 😀

  • Heidi

    OT but Gwen Ifill died.

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      just saw on NPR. She’d been absent a lot the last several months, so I’m not shocked, but I’m still sad.

  • no longer drinking the koolaid

    And, Drumpf has now admitted that he did not understand the full scope of the president’s job. He has asked Obama for help and the Prez has agreed to some extra tutoring.

    Perhaps, Obama will be able to modify a few of Drumpf’s proposals.

  • Sean Jungian

    I was given permission to share the following on Facebook, and I found it very comforting and inspiring. It was written the day after the election by the niece of a childhood friend of mine. I’m leaving her name off it to protect her identity. I’ve made this my personal pledge, as well.

    You Can Stay with Me

    I know a lot of you are angry today. If you’re like me, you’ve been alternating between tearful and terrified, looking for that one tiny thread of hope that can console you.

    For many, that thread is anger. How could so many people be convinced so easily that their feelings are worth more than facts? How do we not scream at the third-party voters who allowed their principles to supersede their reality? How do I continue to live in a country that sees me as worth less—lesser than a man, lesser than my attacker, lesser than my own reproductive parts?

    If have thought these things, you are lucky. You have the luxury of despair.

    While your feelings are completely valid, many people are going to suffer in the next four years—and some much, much more than others. Our next president has risen to power on a tide of hate, and if history has taught us anything, it is that the people who are suffering the most are the first against the wall. You may be afraid for your future, others are in very real danger of losing their lives.

    The thread of hope that I am clinging to today is not anger, nor fear. It is that feeling I felt after Obama was first elected into office, the potential to change things for the better, that feeling of love for my country and all the people who are living in it—whether they love me back or not. I will continue to help others even though it is not my job, to support the rights of all humans whether I directly benefit or not, to understand those who are different than me instead of dismissing or fearing them.

    I extend this invitation to everyone: if the worst happens, if your world catches fire, you can stay with me. If you are thrown out of your home or lost your job because you are different, you can stay with me. If you need help, you can stay with me. If you voted for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, or even Donald Trump, you can stay with me. I will be the America that I believe in, and I know that I cannot do it without you. I need all of you to make it real.

    And to the people who are going to be unable to lift their arms today, who fought so hard throughout the election, made it to the finish line, and still lost—I saved you a seat. I know it’s hard not to give up. So, go ahead. Give up. Take five minutes, take the whole morning—if you can, take the day. Tomorrow, we get up, because our work is not over. Our work has just begun.

    • BeatriceC

      MrC and I already open up our guest room from time to time for homeless teenagers, usually homeless because they’ve been kicked out of their homes for coming out as gay. I have a super basic flip phone on an active line on my Verizon account that I pass around to teens who need a way to stay in communication with others. I don’t have to go looking for teens who need it. They find me. Rather, they find my kids, as the word on the street is their mom can help. I suppose my guest rooms are about to be full more often now.

  • Sean Jungian

    I just can’t even with this Laura J character and her wispy, floaty “Pronouncements”.

    I’m afraid, too, but I’ll tell you what, I’m not NEARLY as afraid as people of color, LBGTQs, Muslims, etc. etc. I’m lucky enough (?) to be a fairly privileged white woman, as is Dr. Amy, as are many of us here.

    So what do we do? FIGHT. PROTEST. STAND UP FOR ALL MINORITY GROUPS. A lot of us here are fairly well-off, comparatively – donate to the ACLU and to Planned Parenthood and to organizations dedicated to protecting the human rights of Gays, Hispanics, Muslims, ETC.

    Call out racism and sexism when you see it! Call out asshole behavior when you see it! This is not the time for women like me to “be nice” and “get along” and allow this monstrosity to take over!

    Don’t let a single thing go by without challenge! Find out your representatives both state and federal and start writing actual letters, and making calls, so many that you become a nuisance, so they know your name. Don’t rely on e-mail, do what gets noticed.

    Stick your fucking neck out! If someone in your vicinity is being called a name or being teased or harassed or threatened for being different – even just “good naturedly” – MAKE IT AWKWARD. Let it be known you will not tolerate it!

    Fight! Protest! Donate! Act!

    • J.B.

      Legal aid too. I just noticed a group of nonprofits sharing the same building. Check their websites. Untrained volunteers aren’t always helpful but they have interest groups. Also if conservative relatives give you money, the feeling of regifting is great.

      • Sean Jungian

        Other recommendations via John Oliver on “Last Week Tonight”:

        * Mexican-American Legal Defense Fund
        * International Refugee Assistance Project
        * Center for Reproductive Rights
        * Natural Resources Defense Counsel.
        * support top-tier journalism by subscribing to a major newspaper, or donating to the non-profit journalism collective of Pro Publica in order to help news outlets scrutinize Trump’s moves.

    • MaineJen

      I am right there with you, sister. Angry as $%&^ and ready to fight.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      http://jezebel.com/a-list-of-pro-women-pro-immigrant-pro-earth-anti-big-1788752078

      Also in addition to the ones at that link/article:

      Asylum Seeker
      Advocacy Project of the Urban Justice Center
      Climate Science
      Legal Defense Fund
      Emerge America
      Human Rights Campaign
      National Network of Abortion Funds
      National Abortion Federation
      National Women’s Law Center
      Native American Rights Fund
      The Safe Passage Project
      Women Organized Against Rape

    • nomofear

      You should know that this is what you’re up against. they believe that they have a biblical mandate. Thus, liberals are evil to them. We’ve got to show up, if just to defend our good name. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5e51782ddb6f6ae14b5ef281275eb4e3596a1c186bc8dda74ac29f2401ab5a23.png

    • nomofear

      Friends, you must know that this is part of what you’re up against. They believe that God wanted this. Evangelicals also hate Hillary Clinton. For thirty years, they’ve been railing against her. We’ve got to show up. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/98dedc7ee4a1ad77d399a86d5d36a98f474b4e4cc6590fc9b59d56fc7221ad90.png

      • Sean Jungian

        I will be there. I was despondent last week. I despaired.

        But talking with others like myself, I have become determined.

        I won’t sit down. I won’t shut up. This is worth it. I will not sit by and let my country, my way of life, my dearly-held beliefs in the dignity and human rights of all people, be hijacked by these short-sighted, narrow-minded fools. Nothing goes unchallenged by me anymore. I am not going to help them destroy and dismantle everything wonderful about the world brick-by-brick.

        • nomofear

          I’m thinking that the evangelicals are celebrating what they think is their win, but they don’t realize that they have woken us up and this, hopefully, is the tipping point that gets us unified against them. Maybe it IS God’s work after all, just in the way that they least expect!

          • Sean Jungian

            I’m almost ready to think that this might possibly be the start of a backlash against the anti-intellectualism, casual racism & misogyny, etc. that we’re due for.

            It does seem to have woken a lot of people up.

            Also, as far as Trump being “appointed by God” and whatever, remember that for some of these Rapture folks, they want the “anti-Christ” to come, so they can hasten their prophecy.

      • J.B.

        I also love how evangelicals refer to themselves as “Christian” and don’t consider those from mainline or progressive denominations to be “Christian”. There are a lot of ways of interpreting the bible. If you think that the King James Bible is the literal word of God then you are ignoring a great deal of history.

        Something from the semon last week – there is room for lamentation but not despair.

    • J.B.

      I need to steel myself to be awkward. Yes it matters! I’m not really into the safety pin (why would someone marginalized care or trust that) other than in a display for others like me.

      • Sean Jungian

        It’s easier to be awkward than you think, I found, it’s that first one that is really tough. Remember to be fairly civil, refrain from name-calling, try to stay calm if possible. For me, the first time was the hardest. But I found that, by being willing to make it awkward, more people felt comfortable joining me in calling out the person spouting the hateful ideas.

        I do subscribe to the Safety Pin movement but we have had many discussions about whether it is just a way to “perform” political correctness. I know of at least one black woman who has written about not trusting whites and how this might be perceived as just symbolic.

        And maybe it is, but this is my take on it: I’m a privileged liberal white woman, in a red state with significant Muslim, Native American, and LGBTQ populations.None of those groups are required to trust me (in fact, they have every reason NOT to), and none of those groups have to stand up and applaud that their Liberal White Savior had deigned to acknowledge their struggle.

        I put on the pin for no other reason other than so people who might need my help know, at least philosophically, that I am pledged to help them. Of course there is more to it than wearing a pin – that just shows your willingness. You have to also reach out. You have to also make eye contact, smile, talk. You have to insert yourself between a person being harassed or being made uncomfortable and the person providing that harrassment.

        Not everyone wants my help, and I might not always (due to my own blindness-of-privilege) realize when someone needs help. A simple safety pin just lets someone know, “hey, your odds are better than zero that this woman at least doesn’t hate you for being brown/gay/Muslim/Native/trans/etc.

        Is it perfect? Nope. But I’m not going to do nothing while I wait for something perfect, either. People can read it however they want – they are under no obligation to take anything I say at face value. But I doubt it’s going to keep people from seeking my help, and it might make someone more comfortable doing so.

        • Gatita

          FWIW, as a Latina I’m annoyed as hell by the scolding over the safety pin. I know a white woman who wore a safety pin and was called a n-lover by a teenage boy right in front of his mother and younger sister. Things are so toxic right now that simply wearing a safety pin is a subversive Act.

          • Sean Jungian

            lol and at this point in my radicalization, I’m like “bring it ON mutha-fuggah, I friggin’ DARE you”

            It’s not perfect but it’s a start.

          • Gatita

            Right, if your activism ends with a safety pin then that sucks. But if it’s start to you fighting back, awesome.

          • J.B.

            OK, safety pin being acquired. After all, if someone doesn’t want to talk to me that’s cool. If they do they do.

          • Sean Jungian

            Awesome! If it doesn’t work for you, get rid of it, but if it does, great!

          • Mark

            Thanks

            Safety pin it is

    • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

      Block her on kinja and with the Chrome killfile extention.

  • Azuran

    OT: I litteraly just got the flu shot 3 minutes ago. And I swear i’ve just instantly lost half of everything i know. Im now back to the state of mind of a teenager. My pregnancy has also gone back to the first trimester. I could litterally see my baby bump deflating. And there is a table with kids drawing, and they cant colour inside the line. Seriously, what 3 years old isnt able to draw perfectly inside the lines. OMG and one of them is crying now. I swear i have NEVER seen a 2 years old cry before.
    What the hell are they poisonning us with????
    :p

    • Amazed

      I know! It’s terrible! When I got mine, two weeks ago, the doctor said I won’t be able to transmit anything to Amazing Niece, even the immunity I was receiving. I was like, WTH? I thought poisons acted like this: I get them, I breathe all over her, she’s immune from now on. Honest!

      On a political note: 9-mos seem to have a pretty good grasp of politics. This one does. She was one of the family members most willing to point out their preferred candidate. When asked, Amazing Niece, who are you going to vote for, she smiled and said, Ba-ba, Ba-ba (Grandma in my language). My mom for the win!

    • Maud Pie

      I got the shingles shot last month and now I can’t parallel park between two cars or see anything funny in the Three Stooges.

      • momofone

        I’ve never been able to parallel park. I blame chicken pox.

        • Who?

          I always back in to parking spots, hate parking front in. Which vax causes that do you think?

  • Melissa Wickersham

    I really want to flee the USA because the USA may become a fascist alt-Right dictatorship. But the whole world may be in danger. What can we do?

  • Squirrelly

    Just musing here. Did we just witness the Russians throwing the election? I mean not directly by rigging the polls but through Wikileaks and hacking.

    My thought train as follows:
    Hillary had close loses (I think by 1 point?) in some crucial states.
    She had a big problem shaking the label of corrupt politician
    Wikileaks was often cited as proof of her corruption
    Hacked DNC emails also angered Bernie supporters who thought the DNC slanted the primaries against him
    Hacking is thought to originate from Russia
    Between the bad press and loss of Bernie supporters was that enough to edge her out of those swing states? Maybe.
    Hence, did Russian meddling throw the election?

    We live in some crazy times.

    • Cody

      There are many people who completely agree with you.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      Ronald Reagan must be rolling over in his grave over the idea that the US republicans would nominate and elect a president who was supported by Russia and Russians.

      The telling graphic of the support for Clinton by countries. All of Europe supported her overwhelmingly, except Russia, where 77% preferred Trump.

      Trump: the top choice of the KKK and Russians.

      And Republicans.

  • Melissa Wickersham

    You can just block the troll.

  • namaste863

    Whoa, guys, this is supposed to be a supportive community. Yeah, a lot of us (myself included) are bitterly disappointed with the outcome of the election, but calling each other names and hurling insults is only going to tear us apart. Whether we voted for Hillary or Trump, we have built a great community of intelligent, thoughtful people here at Skeptikalob (With the exception of Brooke). We have a good thing going here. Let’s not let a bunch of assholes in DC turn us against each other.

    • Heidi

      I really don’t see insult hurling going on here.

      • Anion

        That’s because you’re not one of the people being insulted.

        • Heidi

          Nope.

        • J.B.

          It’s not about you.

          Edited to add: I’m not saying that to sound reassuring, I’m saying that to say that if people are pulling away from you because they are scared it’s time to step back and listen. (And yes, liberal elites do have their issues. I’m trying my hardest to work on mine.)

          These are really really important questions. If you are offended by someone calling out the actions of a particular party as racist, why are you offended? Is that because you expect to be looked at as an individual? What about “welfare queens”? Do they get to be individuals?

          • Anion

            Oh, I didn’t think you were being reassuring, don’t worry.

            I do think the assumption that I do or ever would use the phrase “welfare queens,” or that I judge people who are on welfare (as I once was myself for a brief time) is an INSULT. You’ve just made an assumption about me, based on absolutely nothing, that I am A) offended at someone calling racist actions racist; and B) racist myself.

            And it hasn’t occurred to you at all that you might be wrong in categorizing every person in a different “group” from yours as horrible racists (psst…that’s bigotry) or as morons (bigotry again), or that it might be offensive to do that, even as you insist that *you* are the open-minded one. THAT is my point: You don’t see any insulting happening here because you simply accept as true that every conservative is racist and sexist and fascist and whatever else; of course that’s the case, you say, I’m just calling it like I see it. And you don’t stop for even a second to think that perhaps people do not all fit that little mold you want to push them into, or to think that perhaps you don’t know what these people think and feel as well as you assume you do, or that it is an insult to call people racist or fascist or whatever else based on nothing but what you *think* their opinions are.

            You tell me that “welfare queens” (again, your phrase; I get your reference, but I have NEVER said such a thing) are individuals and should be looked at as such, well, I heartily agree. The difference is that I think that extends to *all* people, whereas you apparently think it only extends to some of them–i.e. those with whom you agree. I think people who voted for Clinton were misled, generally, and yes, some of them are hate-filled, wicked fascists, but most of them are good people with brains and hearts who voted for the one they thought would do the best job. You think all people who voted for Trump are evil racists, full stop, and anyone insulted by that characterization is simply insulted by having their racism called out. Which of us is judgmental here? Which of us is into insulting people en masse? Which of us judges people without stopping to put ourselves in their shoes or get to know them?

            If people are pulling back from YOU because they’re tired of being insulted over and over again by people who refuse to listen or even consider their side and their problems, then maybe it’s time for YOU to sit back and listen. An awful lot of my Trump-voting friends have voted Democrat in the past (as have I); the party lost their vote because it was too busy calling them horrible people for wanting to be heard to actually hear them, and here it is a week after the election and you’re all doubling down on refusing to listen, and deciding people are racist bigots instead of helpless and hopeless and grasping at any straw that looks like it might change things for them.

            If it offends you to have your bigotry called out, why are you offended? Are the African-Americans, Latinxs, and people of color who voted Trump racist? Are the gay people who voted for Trump homophobes? I don’t even like the guy, but I’m tired of seeing this “Everyone but me is evil” mentality over and over again, and I’m frankly terrified by the silencing of dissenting opinions and voices I’m starting to see everywhere I look. That scares ME; are you listening?

          • J.B.

            Oh I am absolutely guilty of writing off blue collar whites, despite working with and deeply respecting a number of them. We all make assumptions, it’s what human beings do. It’s how we act on those assumptions that matter.

            You may never say welfare queen, but did you vote for anyone who did? After all, that was Reagan’s term. I know my mother in law to be a kind person, but she once told me that people had more babies in order to make money off of child care.

            Racism has always been part of the fabric of this country. Slavery was replaced by Jim Crow. Jim Crow was replaced by disparate sentencing. Racism never goes away, but right now slurs seem more acceptable.

          • J.B.

            Also, keeping distance between someone who votes against your existence is a survival strategy.

        • Heidi

          This is what I’ve witnessed so far:

          Speaking up about racism and other bigotry is somehow insulting another group according to you. How so?

          You’ve set your profile to private so I can’t see what you’ve said elsewhere but I’ve clicked around on your upvoters and who you’ve upvoted and find it pretty hypocritical for you all to insult us by joking about “safe spaces” when no one here that I’ve seen has mentioned a need to go to a safe space and you all can’t come into a forum alone. You gotta follow each other around and surround yourself by like-minded people. You create your own little “safe space,” which is fine but pretty hypocritical. Personally I’m surrounded by people who don’t think like me and have been all but 2.5 years of my life so the one place I can purposely avoid surrounding myself by such people is the good ol’ internet.

          • Anion

            Excuse me? Where did I make a joke about “safe spaces?” And where on earth did I say that speaking up about racism and other bigotry is insulting another group? Bigotry by definition is insulting another group, which is why I think it’s bigotry to label all conservatives or all Trump voters (of whom I know quite a few, though I did not vote for him) as racists or morons or selfish fascists or whatever else. If it insults you to say “Not all are like that,” then maybe YOU ought to figure out why YOU’RE insulted.

            And I’ve been commenting here on and off for a couple of years; the fact that I haven’t been commenting much lately doesn’t mean I’ve followed someone here.

          • Heidi

            I am not insulted. Never said I was.

            Again, you’re still saying standing up against racism and calling a spade a spade* insults you. No one here as far as I’ve seen has said, “All conservatives are bigots and racists.” Trump has Stephen Bannon as his chief strategist. He has misquoted crime statistics to drum up white fear and divisiveness in this country.

            *Which unknown to me until now has roots in racism starting in the early 20th century. So, I change it “telling it like it is.”

          • Anion

            No, that is NOT what I’m saying (and I also said “IF” that insults you; I was using your own phrase). I honestly cannot fathom how you’re getting that from my comment, unless the issue is simply that you think you know how I feel and think, so don’t need to pay attention to what I’m actually saying. I think bigotry is offensive. I think categorizing everyone who disagrees with you as a hateful racist is bigotry. You don’t. Okay.

            Still waiting for you to point out where I joked about “safe spaces,” please, or to apologize for saying I did, or apologize for claiming I “followed” some other member of whatever group you imagine I belong to here.

          • Heidi

            I know that you didn’t say the safe space thing. I think it was swirly characters and stars around her name Liz I do believe. However searching for anything with hundreds of comments on Disqus can be a fruitless endeavor. If you didn’t upvote that particular comment, I apologize.

            I still have yet to see where someone has blatantly said all conservatives or those that voted for Trump are bigots. You want me to listen to you. I am not not listening to you. However, what happened happened. People voted for a man who is surrounding himself by conspicuous bigots. They voted for a man that is likely to be impeached, who admittedly is on over his head, and who I personally think will turn over his duties to these scary people he has surrounded himself with.

            I do not think everyone who voted for Trump did it to be explicitly racist or bigoted. They did in spite of the fact Trump is and will surround himself by despicable, hateful person(s). That did happen.

          • swbarnes2

            All Trump voters voted for someone who was endorsed by the KKK. That’s not a gross generalization, that’s incontestable fact.

    • lily

      Anyone who supports people looking at my family and telling us to go back to Mexico, when we have lived here since this part of the country WAS Mexico (and my family is Native American as well, so we’ve been here since we came up from wherever our ancestors did), is not going to be treated nicely. I don’t start things, but I sure as hell finish them. I don’t deal well with assholes who assume that my brown skin and black hair makes me illegal, and that they need to “take back” the country from “my kind.” The ones whose a) land was stolen and people murdered, enslaved and forced to renounce their heritage and had their children taken away forever and b) the ones who helped build this area (going to the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles, you can see lots my ancestors in pictures or visit Olvera Street and see the Avila Adobe).

      No Johnny-Come-Latelys whose families have not been here nearly as long as mine have any right to tell me to “go home” when they think they own it due to white skin and blonde hair. I am home, they are the ones who need to go back.

      • Empress of the Iguana People

        ‘Xactly. Massasoit and Tisquantum greeted my ancestors when they barged off the boat and St Augustine, Florida had already raised 3 generations

    • baileylamb

      Yes, but let’s not let the assholes in DC turn back to Jim Crow. Surprise me, and starting asking why people are afraid.

      Our country has taken 10 steps backwards a number of times in history…

    • MaineJen

      I’m not going to sit back and be a good nazi. Sorry. I’m not going to community-build with people who want to “cure” the gay out of my fellow citizens (Pence) or does not believe climate change is happening (Carson). Not gonna play.

  • J.B.

    I’ve been reading and reading and trying to process. The resurgence of right looks substantial across Europe too. It seems as though it has always existed (the response from oppressed groups being no duh) but that it has gotten better organized. Sort of the parallel to terrorism inc, but working through the countrys’ political systems instead of outside.

    The other is that whites are much more optimistic about liberty than African Americans. We can afford to be and racism has always been a tool for control including making lower status whites feel better than.

    • indigosky

      Not this white person. I grew up one of the few white people in my neighborhood and saw the shit my neighbors went through. I immediately shut down the privileged white people who only knew the rare person of color and don’t believe these stories of racism. I am living in a different area now but I am still the minority here. I want my kids to live in a real diverse area, not an area with tokens.

  • Cestrum Nocturnum

    Trump will be tied up in court with the Trump University lawsuit. Mike Pence will run things in his place. The GOP is moving back into the whitehouse. There is some hope; Obama may be able to appoint Merrick Garland to SCOTUS w/out Senate consent (there are petitions at whitehouse.gov)

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/appoint-garland-now-senate-has-waived-its-rights

    • nomofear

      Thanks, signed!

  • Melissa Wickersham

    I’m scared that the alt-Right and Trump might sell the USA to Vladimir Putin.

  • Mom of 3

    I agree wholeheartedly and I share in the collective heartbreak of sane America.

    As for the troll down thread, there are only 250,000 Amish living in the US and Canada combined, idiot.

  • RudyTooty

    Many of us share your fears, outrage and concerns.

    Probably more of us.

  • baileylamb

    Well said

  • Steph858

    I remember back when Trump first came on the scene as a candidate there was a conspiracy theory doing the rounds that Trump was running under instructions from Clinton so she would either be up against a parody of a Republican who only a fringe minority would vote for or, if he failed to get the Republican nomination, he would proceed to run as an independent base-splitter. Either way, Clinton would have a much easier time winning than she would against a run-of-the-mill Republican candidate who faced little third-party opposition.

    The ‘evidence’ advanced for this theory was along the lines of photos of Trump chatting at an event (a wedding?) with the Clintons. I also think Trump donated money to the Clintons’ campaign at some point. I was half-convinced by this theory, which makes me all the more perplexed as to how the hell he got elected. I kind of hope that this theory is true, as if it is Trump could now soften into a reasonable president,

  • Nick Sanders

    Since Laura J won’t shut up about her supposed prophecy, I would like to remind her of Matthew 7:15-18.

  • Laura J
    • Azuran

      False, it came out if July 2015.

      • Laura J

        Still interesting.

        • Azuran

          I fail to see what is interesting in the producer of the Simpson looking at a tape of Trump and deciding to copy it for fun.

  • Mark

    I will disagree here.

    Hillary did loose this election. IMO a lot of people wanted change in Washington and Trump offered that.

    Hillary was not only burdened by her past but by the recent primary where the DNC tipped the scales in her favor and then gave disingenuous reasons for doing so. Hillary probably would of still won the primary and would not have been tainted as part of a corrupt DNC.

    True their are some facist influences. So not so much I disagree on the evidence but on the ranking of it.

    Basket of deplorables I think was the key point. The establishment versus the poor man. The educated vs the dumb. How was it that Trump beat all the republican insiders?

    Bill Clinton wanted to go after these voters but they chose not to.

    So I will respectfully disagree. Trump may be similar to Hitler but this was not Germany in the 1930’s. It made a difference between who ran against him.

    The take away is what did the democrats do wrong and not what can be done to change that.

    • N

      “True their are some facist influences… Trump may be similar to Hitler ”
      And that is not bad enough already? Why do we need some facist influence or someone similar to Hitler?

      • Laura J

        Ask again in 4 years. Maybe yes or maybe no. Seriously doubt it.

      • Mark

        ??????!

        Huh

        I said that we need facist influences, as I sit here seething of a trump victory?

        I am mearly disagreeing on why Trump won and Hillary lost. Attributing it more to populist than facist. Hillary should of won this hands down.

        What did you think I said?

        • N

          Yes, I understand your viewpoint better now. I’m sorry, I did misunderstand you. And now, after reading all your other posts, I think that in fact you do agree too, that some facist influence and similarity to Hitler is not a good thing. You were not saying that those didn’t matter.

          • Mark

            No problem

    • Laura J

      Great response. They were saying this morning on the news if Hillary listened to her husband, she might have won this.

      • Mark

        Uhh

        I thought you said this was God’s plan?

        If this was God’s plan than how could Hillary have won?

        • momofone

          Maybe it was God’s backup plan?

          • Mark

            Lol, good one.

            I put up what I think to be a well thought out post.

            I get someone misinterpreting what I said and the God did it nut replying

            Really

        • Laura J

          It is. I like hearing from both sides after the election is all.

        • Sarah

          Is Bill Clinton God then? That would be, erm, quite a turn up for the books.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            To be entirely fair, his personal life has resembled Zeus’ from time to time… :p

        • nomofear
          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            The irony is that God sent Trump to punish the conservatives, not to reward them.

          • nomofear

            All I know is that liberal groups are getting together like wildfire right now in my area. It’s too bad it took losing – and we’ll see if the momentum sustains – but I think so, too!

          • Mark

            Wow

      • FallsAngel

        I think her husband was part of her problem.

    • maidmarian555

      Personally I think we all need to stop blaming liberals for this. I have read countless hand-wringing articles this week, blaming liberals/democrats/elitists/left-wingers/socialists etc etc etc. Can we not just blame the people that voted in Trump (and here in the uk, for Brexit)? They need to be held accountable for what they’ve done. They don’t care about the consequences because they don’t believe that they are going to have to bear the brunt of them. These aren’t desperate, starving people. These are people that voted for tax breaks, better paid jobs and for people who don’t look like them to be shipped off to the other side of the world (or behind a wall). I am really tired of being asked to feel bad for white men. It needs to stop.

      • Mark

        I am a white man, who is not rich and voted first for Bernie and then Hillary and is sick to my stomach over Trump.

        I tell you this, identity politics or grouping people by anything will get you nowhere.

        Reverse racism, is just as bad as racism, if but more understandable.

        • LaMont

          Just as bad? Please, I agree to a point that this clearly isn’t a winning political strategy, but you’re comparing murder of nonwhite people, disowning of LGBT children, and deportation of people who may be separated from their families with… feeling uncomfortable about being called racist? “Just as bad”?

          • Mark

            Clearly it is not a winning strategy and is it more important to be correct or is it more important to be effective?

            You are correct and it is not effective.

            You can’t label a whole group of people…. and then wonder why they get upset.

            Clearly women voted for Trump and minorities did not come out and vote in numbers the needed to.

            You can bash racist sexist people all you want. You should not say poor white men don’t get it. You ignore the poor white people in America, you call them ignorant and racist, just because they are white this is what you get.

            You get Fucking Donald Trump.

            Bill Clinton was right, they should of asked for their votes.

          • LaMont

            I agree we shouldn’t ignore those people, but there has to be room for calling out actual hate-spewers and racist policy or else change won’t happen. It’s a tightrope, but saying “just as bad” in terms of harm done by racism and anti-racism is wildly inaccurate. Black men can be killed and their killers won’t be prosecuted. Women can be assaulted and their rapists/attackers won’t be prosecuted. Hijab-wearing women and gay men can’t walk outside without attracting real violence. I understand that none of these are important enough issues to most of America (depressing) but we’re talking about people’s lives here.

          • Mark

            I take away my ‘just as bad’ and now I agree with everything you said.

          • maidmarian555

            Let’s get something straight here. We talk about ‘poor white voters’ here in the Western world like they’re a homogenous mass who all think the same way. Really poor people don’t vote. They’re too busy trying to eat to worry about politics. Idk what it’s like in the States but here you can’t even get on the electoral roll if you’re homeless. When we talk about ‘poor’ white voters, we’re actually talking for the most part about people who have jobs and a roof over their heads, they just don’t have a house in the part of town they’d like to live in or that second car. They aren’t benefiting from society and taxes *enough* for them. They want more.

            I understand your point about liberals failing to reach these people but, frankly, if the answer is to accept their privilege and make out like I feel super sorry that because of their tax bill this year, they couldn’t afford little Jimmy the extra tutoring that would have got him into the local Grammar school then I just can’t. That would involve setting aside my principles instead of challenging their privilege and blatant racism head-on. And, you know what, we have been side-stepping around that politely for too long. Maybe the problem is that we’re not fighting hard enough. Not that we need to modify our message and stroke their sorry little blonde heads……

          • Mark

            You are right, the poor white person is not homogeneous group.

            Your example is just a bit to well off. I would think of those struggling to keep one car, and wondering how to pay for the next car repairs, not the second car. The ones who are worried about being payed off or missing the mortgage payment. For a well to do liberal to call them privelaged is a bit rich ehh.

            I never, never, ever said to not address racism. It should be front and center. Those people who are racist and sexist need to be called out.

            But why do you think the election was lost? How did we get to having Trump in the White House. How can Hillary loose a majority of white women to Trump?

            What is wrong with our message?

            And if in hindsight we can’t even figure out why, then we are really up shits creek.

            What is your answer for stopping this madness of racist sexist populist facist in the future?

            Now to play my other hand, how do you think it makes me feel to.be a Jew in America with nazi and kkk signs starting?

            Should I call trump supporters anti Semitic?

          • Heidi

            I could see how the phrase “white privilege” could be mistaken to mean that all white people live a life of privilege in the general understanding of the word privilege. But that’s not what it means. It’s about “privileges” that we take for granted as white people. Everyone should actually expect and have them but they don’t. Things like my husband got pulled over for expired tags and the cop just gave him a warning. It didn’t involve a stop and search. I’ve never been followed around suspiciously at a dept store because the manager told the employees to follow all white people. I can see white people on the TV all the time. If my child went missing, it’d probably make it on the news all over the country.

          • Mark

            True

            Btw as a poor white kid I have been followed around in the store, not as much as if I were black, but

            Etc etc, no need to go into more detail

          • BeatriceC

            Yeah, I got pulled over for driving at night without my lights on. I was driving a car tagged in another state, without current registration stickers on the plates nor a current registration card (I’d paid for the registration, just never got the new documents), and, while I was unaware of it at the time, a suspended driver’s license and no insurance. I should have gone to jail. Instead the cop just made sure the (expired) registration card matched the name on the driver’s license, realized I was tired and stupid, not drunk, and sent me on my way. The whole stop took less than five minutes. This was in 2013 and the car was a 1999 model year and in cosmetically rough shape (though not terrible…lots of scratches, small dents and some rust, because North Dakota). If I was anything other than white, I’d have been in a shit load of trouble that night.

          • maidmarian555

            I’m not really a well-to-do liberal. My OH and I are from very poor backgrounds, he was from a single-parent family and my parents both had severe mental health issues and survived on benefits. We’re an bone-fide example of where you can get in this country if you do what everyone says you’re supposed to do and work your nuts off. We now have a nice life but it wasn’t always that way and we’re both happy (unlike Trump) to pay our fair share of taxes so that kids like us growing up in shitty homes have at least a chance of clawing their way out if they want to.

            And isn’t that part of the problem? I’ve been called a ‘liberal elitist’ many time this past week and yet those labels don’t work together at all. To me, being a liberal is just that. I genuinely want equality of opportunity for all. I don’t want kids making the choice I did between taking care of their mentally ill parents and going to University. Trump *is* the elite. He couldn’t care a damn about the aspirations of those he’s trodden on to make his fortune.

            I don’t know what the answer is (and my god I’ve been up in the wee small hours trying to fathom what it might be lately). But to answer your question, YES. You should call antisemites out for saying antisemetic things. We all should. I wonder if the problem is that we’ve allowed that kind of shit to slide for too long. I know I personally have let things go and not battled racist comments from old white guys in the pub when I really should have in the past. I’ve justified it in my head by not wanting to always get into arguments but morally? I probably should have contested the kind of nonsense I’ve overheard (and I’ve overheard it precisely because I am a white woman and they’ve not felt the need to censor their views within my earshot).

            I’d imagine you currently feel shitty. And scared. And I’m really sorry we live in a world where the KKK didn’t just die under a rock a century ago. I’m not attacking you too. I’m just debating your viewpoint.

          • Mark

            Ok, I am very sorry too for yelling.

            This whole thing is really pissing me off to no end.

          • maidmarian555

            Many of us are feeling angry and utterly despondent that apparently our neighbours and friends think in ways that are so different to ourselves. I’ve been feeling sick since June. And ashamed. My own mother voted for Brexit because she hates Muslims. The whole world has turned on its head. One thing those of us with liberal views do need to do is not turn on each other. We should debate (passionately). But not be hateful. And keep open minds and hearts.

          • Mark

            You seemed to have done well, I applaud you.

            So you understand a bit about labels, they see someone and think the know them based on looks and class. Not cool, is it.

            I would call out an anti Semite, yes, and a anti Muslim or anti black or an anti anything. With in reason I don’t want to start a street fight. If their is a confrontation because a minority think I am a rich little white dude, I ignore it.

          • Erin

            As an aside, you can get on the electoral register whilst Homeless in the UK.

            If you are being temporarily housed in a hostel, shelter, B&B or temporary flat, you can use that address.

            If you are sleeping rough, then you can use an address where you have either lived (and that can be a homeless shelter) or somewhere you have a connection with.

            https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/501398/Register_to_vote__no_fixed_or_permanent_address__living_in_England_and_Wales_.pdf

            There a similar form for Scotland.

            Sorry, having worked with Homeless families it’s a massive bugbear for me.

          • maidmarian555

            Well that’s good to know. Sadly I didn’t when I went through a period of homelessness a few years ago. Mind you, I was sofa-surfing so I’m not sure I’d have been able to use any of the random addresses I stayed in during that period…..

          • Erin

            It’s one of those things which just doesn’t seem publicised enough which is why I had to bring it up, the more people who know the better.

          • BeatriceC

            I have helped homeless people get registered in a few states. Every state in different in the US. Some make it very difficult if you don’t have a permanent address, others just require an address of some sort, even if it’s a general delivery* address. I think, but I’m not sure, that lack of an address shouldn’t discount any US citizen from registering, however, there’s a lot of voter suppression going on across the country, so while it shouldn’t happen, it does.

            *For anybody who doesn’t know, General Delivery is simply when the items come addressed to a person at a specific zip code, and then delivered to the post office serving that zip code. The person receiving mail general delivery is responsible for picking up their mail.

        • maidmarian555

          Simplifying what is happening (and this problem is not unique to America, trust me) and denying that race has played it’s part here is literally whitewashing an issue. For what it’s worth, I am white, middle-class and am unlikely to feel the inevitable shitty effects of Brexit here. Unless Trump literally sets of WW3 with one of his late-night Twitter meltdowns, I am probably going to be ok. We can pretend all day long that those of us that look like me don’t have it better than those with darker skin all we like. It’s just not true. You can deny that identity politics exist all you like, the other side is more than happy to use the them-and-us rhetoric and it’s working. It’s worked. Over there and over here. Nigel Farage (who has repeatedly failed to get voted into Parliament here) was pictured hugging Trump in a gold elevator today, the DAY AFTER openly referring to Obama as a ‘creature’. How is an (now) open racist able to hug the leader of the ‘free world’ if identity politics are not being embraced by many?

          • Mark

            Of course race has an issue in people’s lives. Of course it is been a struggle.

            You just don’t win elections with the attitude I am sick of what white men think.

            That is especially true if the person is a poor struggling white person and you are a rich white dude who can afford to be gracious.

            Fucking Donald Trump! Hillary had to write off the poor white vote. For Gods sake, if you could of pulled ten percent your way by actually giving a dam and going into their neighborhoods then we would be saying madam president.

            And please this is not how I think, it is how I think others think.

            If we can maybe just look into how and why we lost this election then maybe we can accomplish something.

            Saying I blame Trump voters is not going to work.

        • Heidi

          Except racism means there are systemic forces oppressing people, and I just don’t see how white people are being oppressed by their whiteness.

          • Mark

            I guess if you are a well to do white person who is Christian then it is no big deal.

            If you are a poor white person struggling in a poor mixed rual neighborhood or urban neighborhood it could be a little upsetting ….

            I too know what discrimination is based on factors other than skin color. Yet in a mixed neighborhood I could be subjects to threats just by the color of my skin.

            So yes their is racism and it needs to be fought.

            You don’t fight it by not addressing the concerns of poor white people. You address by fighting racism. It rings a bit hollow when educated rich white people talk about white privilege from their suburban homes, white neighborhoods and plenty of opportunities.

            Don’t get me wrong. I feel a lot of them are for shit, just like any other group. They don’t get that it is even damn harder to be black and poor.

            But this is not about being right, it is about winning elections. If you talk down to people what do you expect?

          • Heidi

            This still doesn’t mean there are laws in place that specifically target white people in order to oppress them.

            I also kind of have my doubts that poor white people who live in a mixed neighborhood were by and large Trump voters.

          • Mark

            True.

            Their were poor white voters who did vote for Trump just because he was for change. Many were racist. Some where not.

          • Heidi

            I think poverty has hit a lot of America, and of course, no pun intended, it’s not so black and white. It’s not to say all white people are at least middle income and all other people are poor. I think some powers that be have done a pretty good job of convincing a certain sect of (mostly) white people that minorities or immigrants or women getting into the workforce are to blame to distract them. Terrorist attacks are over-represented. The chances of dying in a terrorist attack in America are very slim. They make America have a disproportionate fear of the bigger cities. And it’s pretty easy to stay in your little bubble. School integration has been ground to a halt, the entertainment industry has mirrored back exactly how these people see themselves and fully allowed them to embrace this identity. I mean, it’s hard to find a TV show or music that represents a small-town liberal in the South for example.

          • Mark

            Ok

            Excuse me for getting on my high horse. This trump election thing is just pissing me off. I am looking for answers not blame.

            How do you think Trump won over half the white women’s vote?

          • Heidi

            The same way he won over men’s.

          • Chi

            I actually have a theory on that. I believe that the white women who voted for Trump are most likely married to white conservative Christian men and were most likely swayed by their husbands’ opinions on whom to vote for.

            Plus, with the smear campaign that the GOP enacted on Hilary, they were a lot like the anti-suffrage committees that were formed who basically said they didn’t want to be associated with ‘those women’ who were fighting for the vote. Thus they voted for Trump in order to not be associated with ‘That evil Hilary person’.

          • Mark

            Maybe some?

            With over fifty percent of the white women voting for a sexist bigot, I think it is more than just that.

            I am not sure what it is

          • Laura J

            I was independent on that regard.

          • Erin

            I think suggesting that they’re swayed by men is giving too many women a pass personally. Most of the female members of my family are passionately anti-abortion for example and would if they were American, have voted accordingly.

            My Mother believes 100 percent that a woman’s role in life is to marry a rich man, have babies, lunch with other similar women, attend suitably respectable activities such as flower clubs, Church and do “good works” which primarily seem to involve patronising those less fortunate than herself. Pence in particular is exactly the sort of Politician she adores.

          • Heidi

            Is your mom Hyacinth Bucket? That is what popped in my head with your description. 😉

          • Erin

            I might start calling her that when she annoys me as it will most definitely make her mad.

            The sad thing is I think I’d prefer it if she was like that. I think pretentious would be easier to deal with than the calculating, spoilt, brittle and casually cruel creature who gave birth to me.

          • Maud Pie

            So not Hyacinth Boo-Kay, but Lady Marchmain?

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            *blink, blink* i didn’t know there were real women like that.

          • lily

            Yes there are, I have a friend who is one. She married an incredibly well to do guy and does social luncheons, is head of the local flower club, and volunteers at several places from helping foster youth to the animal shelter. But she and her husband are Bernie then Hilary supporters. They are more than happy to pay their fair share in taxes and welcome the increase. But he made every penny of his wealth, his dad was a blue collar factory worker, so they know what it is like to have basic needs unmet.

          • nomofear

            Omg yes, they’re all over my town. Oh, drive through my neighborhood and there’s cars in just about every driveway. I mean, I drive an Odyssey and coupon for local charities, so you could probably count me as one, but I’m one a those durn liberal ones.

            I feel terrible that it took losing for this to happen, and idk if it’s happening with y’all, but there are suddenly these liberal women’s groups throwing up tents on Facebook. Search for them if you haven’t been invited.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            i was, oddly enough

          • Erin

            I’m open to the suggestion she’s some sort of evil Alien type but I think that’s probably an insult to evil Aliens.

          • Maud Pie

            I wonder how many female Trump voters are like my ex-SIL–anti-intellectual, obsessed with clothes and makeup, shallow, frivolous, and baffled that no rich sugar daddy ever snapped her up as a trophy bride.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            i swayed my conservative, white husband. That’s why i am now the Empress

          • nomofear

            I love you! My best friend did that with a sweet Arkansas guy. They can be brought to our side 🙂

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Awwe, thanks. Though to be fair to my blind bard-consort, he’s been trending towards the middle for years.

          • Anion

            Yeah, women aren’t capable of making up their own minds. They went for Bernie because that was where the boys were, and then they voted for Trump because their husbands told them to.

            That must have been it. Everyone knows women can’t think for themselves.

          • nomofear

            Evangelicals voted in droves, and they have been anti-Hillary for her entire career. Trump also hired Pence, a noted anti-abortionist, so that locked them down. Trust me, the 47% over here are angry. Those women disgust me. And I’m in a Southern state, so it’s actually a super majority of women here, in the right (or wrong, lol) neighborhoods.

            Most of the women I know are anti-abortion. When pressed, they’ll give exceptions. I want to throttle them. My sensibilities, and my wing of the church (PCUSA), say that it should be between a woman and her doctor. Not a woman and her Congressional representatives and the megachurch pastor that she doesn’t even like. And a board, like Utah has. One woman had to wait twelve hours for the board to approve her procedure, while she was dying of severe preeclampsia. This shouldn’t have to go before a board. Life-saving interventions should be done at the greatest possible speed. Yet these women I know want everybody up in our business, while keeping hands off the guns. What is that?

          • Mark

            Abortion and evangelicals are part of it, maybe even most of it. Though he did loose some of the religious if not evangelical vote due to his anti Christian behavior.

          • Sean Jungian

            After working for several churches over about 5 years, I’ve seen clearly, first-hand, that “Christians” have no problem with anti-Christian behavior if it props up their personal interests (either their wealth, social status, feeling of superiority, etc.). Zero. They will make a million and one excuses for it, IF they even acknowledge it.

        • lily

          THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS REVERSE RACISM! Racism is about power. People of Color can be bigoted, but they cannot be racist in this country. We have zero power. Please stop with the bullshit “reverse racism” trope. You’re not helping us.

          • Mark

            Ok
            Whatever

          • Mark

            Call it racism or bigotry or whatever you want to call it. If I get told to go back to Israel even though my family has never lived in Israel what shall I call it. Bigotry if it is a black person and racism if it is a white person?

            Fine, it is bigotry if it makes you feel better.

          • lily

            Racism means there are powerful people possibly stripping others of their rights, or at least they have the ability to. Bigotry is someone who dislikes a group of people for some reason but has no actual power on their own to do anything to said group. That is a HUGE difference.

            And why are they telling you to go back to Israel? I’m going to assume it is because you are Jewish. That is called anti-Semitism, not racism, as it targets your religion and not your race.

        • MaineJen

          “Reverse racism is just as bad as racism”

          STOP IT

          • Mark

            Fine, I will clarify.

            Someone discriminating against another based on what they are instead of who they are is bad regardless of who is doing it.

            Racism is always bad, and is almost always hurts those in the minority.

          • MaineJen

            OK, just don’t call it reverse racism…white people have never been systematically oppressed

          • Mark

            I have edited out that remark as it does not reflect what I truly meant.

          • MaineJen

            ‘Preciate it…I understand. I’m still learning too. I am ashamed of myself for having been complacent for so many years.

          • Mark

            Nothing to be ashamed of at least as far as I can see

      • Laura J

        We took our country back. Simple.

        • momofone

          Some of us were under the impression that it’s our country too.

        • maidmarian555

          From whom did you take back it exactly and, more importantly, who have you handed it *to*?

          • Laura J

            Change is GOOD for everyone!

          • momofone

            That doesn’t answer the question.

          • baileylamb

            The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

          • Laura J

            LOL. Some brits I know disagree! It’s going to be greater than it was.

          • baileylamb

            You aren’t fooling anyone. I don’t know what barbarians get from trying to burn down civilization.

          • Laura J

            Build that wall! Keep illegals out

          • LaMont

            You realize planes exist, right? And visas that people overstay? That Mexicans aren’t video game characters that run into walls until you figure out the controllers?

          • Laura J

            get the criminals out.

          • LaMont

            The wall is a very expensive way to *not* do that. Plus, is deportation the only way to punish someone? I’d say that separating families and sending people back to countries they haven’t seen since childhood qualifies as “cruel and unusual” but hey, I have a human heart instead of a lump of coal in my chest so what do I know.

          • Laura J

            Safety is the majority of what Americans want.

          • momofone

            I haven’t heard anyone arguing against safety. Have you?

          • LaMont

            In fact overall we’re safer than ever! Laura J – Not sure how a Twitter troll who provokes people like it’s his job (b/c it has been) will improve this… also immigrants are less likely to commit crimes because they have more to lose. I’m personally more upset at being unsafe in the presence of strange men who know that the president has their back if they assault me on the street, than I am that some poor Mexican worker doesn’t have proper documentation.

          • Laura J

            Unless they’re paid by Soros. I’m fine with immigrants here wanting to better their life, not just bring their crimes with them. Send the druggies and such back. Cut off that income…

          • LaMont

            You don’t see any racism in assuming that immigrants are associated with increased criminality when the numbers *stubbornly refuse to corroborate that*? Somehow it’s okay when white Americans take drugs and commit crimes but not when brown people do? No one is arguing that people who commit crimes here shouldn’t be punished, but there is a major humanitarian issue in play that dwarfs the actual *dangers* these people pose.

          • Laura J

            Stereotyping, true. Borders should have been fortified years ago or a better system in place. Tunnels and such going all across the border. Loopholes for criminals, trafficking etc. I’m for the wall.

          • N

            And that is achieved with … guns for everyone I suppose?

          • Amazed

            I’ve lived in safety. I wish such a safety upon the idiot here. Good thing is, with Donald Duck and Pence As Sharp As Pencil in the lead, she’s likely going to get it. Bad thing is, the rest of America is going to get it with her.

            Bet you this good Christian is enamoured by one Tov. Putin as well.

          • Laura J

            And a Wall.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Because the Great Wall, Hadrian’s Wall, and the Berlin Wall worked so marvelously?

          • N

            Also the american criminals? Let’s populate the moon than, with our criminals…

          • Laura J

            Incarcerate them all.

          • Mishimoo

            I mean, it worked out just fine for Australia right? Why not the moon? 😛

          • N

            Exactly my thoughts… 🙂

          • Heidi

            So how much is building the wall going to cost? I’m sure Trump will use American labor and American steel which will cost more than undocumented workers and Chinese steel! So we get it built, how do we man every inch of it? That money is coming from somewhere! How much do you think that’ll cost? I get that it’d be job creation but those are jobs funded by taxpayers.

          • N

            It depends on the change.

          • Laura J

            certainly from the establishment to the people. Heck some don’t know what to do with it now, selfish rioters clogging the streets endangering lives. Should move on.

          • Who?

            Trump is a bazzilionaire on paper and Pence is a long term politician. How is electing them ‘taking the country away from the establishment’?

          • Laura J

            Good men. Love them. Establishment…the corrupt manipulative media, the policies that finanically hurt families across the country. Key states won were historic. Ohio, Pennsylvania and FL. Pence, I liked what he had to say during the debate. Trump is part of the prophecy. He is there for a reason.

          • Who?

            So you, as a christian, believe that a lying cheating philanderer will destroy civilisation and then you’ll go to heaven?

            And that your skyfriend has teed this all up to prove what a big dude he is?

            That’s satire, surely?

          • Laura J

            That was Hillary. Do you know we are bombing 7 countries right now?7 countries! Under Clinton they’d outsmart her and the war would indeed escalate.

          • Nick Sanders
        • lily

          You mean, you took it back so people could look at my LEGALLY BORN SON and tell him to go back to Mexico? That people have insulted him and called him an anchor baby?

          Do me a favor and go fuck yourself with something blunt and rusty. My family is of Spanish and Native American heritage. We have been living here since California was part of Mexico. We can trace our family back to the 1750s. My family is related to Francisco Avila whose Avila Adobe still stands in the Olvera Street area in Los Angeles, built in 1818. So just because we look Mexican we must be illegal to the Trump supporters. My family has been here longer than most of your European folks. So if anyone should be taking the country back, it’s my family.

          • Laura J

            haha profanity is always a liberal attitude. Funny the Latinos i know here support the wall!

          • Laura J

            You worry too much.

          • N

            Who would not worry if their son is told such things?

          • Laura J

            hey with my last name that got the heat, you get a thicker skin! Again you don’t have to worry so much. Move on, move on.

          • Laura J

            You raise your son to turn the other way & grow a thicker skin. We are bombing 7 nations.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            We’ve heard you out, but now you are just repeating yourself so I am banning you.

          • Melissa Wickersham

            I usually block trolls before they get banned.

          • Mark

            You are very patient indeed

          • momofone

            I know Laura J is now banned, but can someone explain the 7-nation thing to me?

          • Heidi

            I think seven in general is supposed to hold a lot of meaning in the Bible.

          • momofone

            Thanks. Between the Amish and bombing seven nations I was lost.

          • Heidi

            Perhaps a clip of Back to the Future or The Simpsons will clarify it for you? 😉

          • Sean Jungian

            I get all my prophecies from ’80s movies and TV shows.

          • Heidi

            Well, if there’s any truth to the Simpsons being prophetic, Lisa Simpson becomes president after the Trump effs it all up. The world doesn’t end. We have a female president to clean up!

          • momofone

            Absolutely! Why didn’t anyone suggest that before?!

            (I got water all over my new computer monitor when I read your comment. 😀 )

          • MaineJen

            I’m so sorry that happened to your son.

          • lily

            I am too. Luckily the (white) teacher who overheard it put the smackdown on that little bastard and he was in detention for a week. The mom came crying and the principal stood by the teacher’s punishment. If this had gone any other way, I would have been finding a new school. But they have shown in several ways, from the defense of a Muslim student in her hijab, to expelling a student who drew a noose and passed it as a note to a black student. They don’t do racism, and the school employees are 90% white. That’s why I still have some hope for this country.

        • Amy

          From whom? The immigrant side of my family, or the side that goes back to before there WAS a United States? Because not a one of us is included in your “we.”

    • Cestrum Nocturnum

      She won the popular vote. The Republican party hasn’t won the popular vote since 1988.

      • Mark

        And that is wonderful, does not make a difference does it?

        • Melissa Wickersham

          We need to get rid of the electoral college someday.

      • Empliau

        George Bush won it in 2004.

  • mostlyclueless

    I agree with every word of this. Thank you for your thoughtful and eloquent writing.

  • Amazed

    I’m leaving now to vote. A ballotage. Both candidates are repellent to me. I am staring ahead and I am thinking, “Is that what we’ve become? Those two here and Trump over there?”

    I could cry.

    • Laura J

      Or live. Time to move on. I get it people are scared, disappointed, raving in the streets. Love your family more, the simple things. It is going to be OK.

    • N

      It’s the general than? Who wants to be friends with Putin?

      • Amazed

        Oh yes, the very same one. And if not him, it would have been the other Putin lover. She tried to make overtures to the left, had no success in stealing any votes for the general, and took the other stance. It didn’t help her either. But she isn’t much better than the general. Lucky us, eh?

        Btw, it’s very sweet how the press here calls him “the general”. It’s one thing for us, as members of the public, to call him so. But the way they call him, I’d think that General is his first name. Other times, I got the feeling that we were voting for a junta.

  • Amazed

    Sent by God? May I see his credentials? I mean, he must have those, right? Or if he doesn’t – but of course he does! – he must have been chosen as a reward for his good deeds, like, paying his taxes, giving one of his shirts and towers to others, respecting his family and so on, right? Right?

    • Anna D

      You cannot buy into ravings of a lunatic. This is obviously not a rational conversation and no amount of logical arguments will make any difference.

      • Amazed

        Oh I don’t believe into the garbage she’s spouting. I was poking fun of her because, you must agree with me, it’s vaguely amusing, in a terrifying way, when you see a self-proclaimed devout Christian referring to Trump as the Lord’s Chosen. Tells us all we need to know about her character, eh?

        • Anna D

          I guess I am trained by NY subway: you see a mentally disturbed person no eye contact and no arguing.

          • Laura J

            Or a mind-closed individual with no intellect!

          • momofone

            Yes, those “mind-closed” people are a challenge….

          • N

            Oh no. First you send us love and trust and God, mixed with Back to the Future and Simpsons prophecies, and now you start to insult people. But you are not related to some guy named Verboten, are you?

          • Laura J

            Discussion to put it correct.

        • Laura J

          Um and yours. Build the wall…kick out the illegals! And the liberals who like to twist and turn the truth. It’s a great time to see all that is about to happen.

          By the way it is a discussion!

  • The Bofa on the Sofa

    Not responding to any comment specifically, but the suggestion that Trump was “sent by God” is a pretty serious indictment on religious teaching.

    Here, I’ve been trying to live a good life and following directives of the bible. You know, “love one another as I have loved you” and “Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers and sisters, you do unto me.”

    Now, the suggestion is that none of that matters, and God will choose you even if you are a sexist, racist pig? God certainly does work in mysterious ways, doesn’t he?

    Of course, I have said it before, this election has really exposed the evangelical christians as the hypocrites they are.

    • Anna D

      Hypocrisy of evangelicals was never in question, I just don’t think they will ever acknowledge it. Morally bankrupt, they are pushing their agenda on American public with no respect to personal autonomy and different religious beliefs belying their “devotion” to the very principles of American republic and Constitution that they love to talk about.

      • Laura J

        Listen. Listen carefully. Buckle your seatbelt for the ride of your life. We will be FINE! 3 million Amish voted trump! We will prevail. Now is the time to get working on the sciences, new discoveries and to dream. Maybe in my lifetime a woman will get to the oval office, but this is what has been ordained. Got some good strong men there now, so don’t worry. Now is the time to organize and focus on the simple things. Love your family. Do what we do going about our lives. Work on that dream, do it. Work hard for that dream of yours. Raise children, maybe they will be president too. Good ones to make the world a better place.

        • momofone

          I’m not sure what your fixation on the Amish is. Could you explain how that has any relevance to what people here are saying about their concerns?

          • Laura J

            they were the ones that mathematically flipped the key states.

          • momofone

            You seem very focused on the importance of their being Amish.

          • Laura J

            They were the key players in this.

          • momofone

            I’m not sure I’m with you on that.

          • baileylamb

            Ignore it I’ve realized it’s probably a bot, or meant to divide people.

    • guest

      I left religion long ago since the dominant message was that god wanted women to be subservient to men. F that noise. It could be true, as I can’t prove the non-existence of god. But, if there is a god and that’s what he wants? F him. Though I do tend to think there simply isn’t a god.

    • nomofear
      • Empress of the Iguana People

        my pastor would not recognize their god. But then, she’s heavily into social justice

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          Yeah, since when is Methodist considered “godless” and “atheist”?

          Apparently, Matt 25:31-46 is not part of their bible.

  • Mrs.Katt the Cat

    Certain members of my family danced with joy over the election, because they sincerely believe that Trump has been prophesied to lead us- either as some ‘modern Cyrus’ who lead Babylon before it’s fall or because it’s the end of days. WHY do people seem to want that??? WHY is there excitement over this? What is with this positive fatalism????
    Then I come online and realize it’s a bigger group than I thought.
    Now I’m worried that if a big enough crowd is looking forward to the literal end of days, they will either sit idly and smile while things get bad or actively make it worse.

    • Heidi

      One idea: maybe they are that bored? I don’t know where your family resides, but it seems like your the end times are here, evangelical Christians generally reside in rural America where suicide and drug abuse is rampant because it’s that boring. You got church, suboxone, oxycontin and meth to pass the time, which of course scramble the brains a bit, too.

      • Laura J

        Spiritually sound to put it correctly. These are GREAT times. Buckle your seatbelt for the ride of your life. !

        • Heidi

          Yes, suboxone addicts who blame minorities who don’t even live in their town are the spiritually sound and you’re an intellectual. We get it. You can go now.

          • Laura J

            Why do you always sound defeatist? Great times now.

          • Heidi

            Why does nothing you say ever relevant to the topic at hand, Laura J?

          • Laura J

            because you don’t believe in the forest through the trees.

          • Heidi

            I don’t even know what that means. You botched that idiom pretty badly.

          • Box of Salt

            She means you don’t believe in her version of God, Heidi.

            Part of me wants to find out what exactly she did to get so mind-altered away from reality, but you know what? I have enough sense that I know I don’t really want to go there.

          • baileylamb

            Bc it’s a bot

          • Laura J

            Half of the nation’s population don’t even live in the plains. Don’t use prescription drugs here. https://external-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQBUZeHMuKncf4hm&w=375&h=394&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FCw7mUo4UUAACsxB.jpg%3Alarge

          • Heidi

            Did that have a relevant point? Did I mention the plains? I have never lived in the plains. I live in the Southeast and you did, too. In fact, I googled suboxone today just to read up on it and THIS popped up http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/opinion/sunday/addicted-to-a-treatment-for-addiction.html They mentioned both my hometown and the town I worked in the ER in. Prescription and other narcotics are rampant, just like southern Baptist churches.

          • Laura J

            me too!! fires out this way making so much smoke. It’s bad.

          • Laura J

            Funny, and sad that people have these addictions and can’t just quit. Like the craving never goes away, huh? I wouldn’t know, ’cause chocolate is my vice.

            The smoke is so bad, ppl and kids can’t go outside. Some addict (probably) lighting fires in GA. The largest one is in Blue Ridge, 13,000 acres, and the other in Rabun county. Pretty far away…hope they catch them or him. They arrested someone setting fires in TN yesterday.

          • Heidi

            It is indeed sad, tragic even. I’ve seen members of my family and others around me screw their lives up beyond real repair before their 30th birthday. I’ve seen my fair share of 30-somethings on hospice due to substance abuse. It’s hard for me to understand why people are clinging so tightly to their way of life and conservatism when it really doesn’t seem to be working.

      • Mrs.Katt the Cat

        It is a rural area. And the internet out here is shameful. I am seriously considering getting animals just to have something to do in the morning.

        • BeatriceC

          May I recommend parrots? I typically spend 4-6 hours per day in direct care for my birds, and another couple hours in indirect care. You will never be bored if you have a couple amazons or a couple macaws, or a mix of small, medium and large birds. Though if you get a larger cockatoo, just get one. Those are more work than my three (amazon, senegal, disabled macaw) combined.

          • Mrs.Katt the Cat

            I have wanted chickens my whole life. I almost have my Mom talked into quail on her property. She seems to think chickens are vile and vicious, but is willing to try quail.
            We had parakeets for a little while but I was working so much I could never spend enough time with them and so i rehomed them. One liked to dance to bluegrass music.

          • BeatriceC

            Goofy, the amazon, AKA The Evil Attack Parrot ™, likes to dance to classic country (Hank Williams Jr. and company). Charlotte the macaw is more of a snob and prefers Beethoven and death metal. Leo the senegal prefers death metal. Birds definitely have unique musical preferences.

            And chickens are pretty cool. I spend so much time with my parrots that I wouldn’t have time to dedicate to a flock of chickens, but I know a lot of people who have them and love them.

          • Mrs.Katt the Cat

            One day I will have my chickens, one day!

    • Laura J

      Yeah many different aspects of prophecy, but bible codes. Follow those.

    • Sean Jungian

      Oh, they believe it. They are hoping to hasten the End of Days because 1) they can live with their god forever and ever in a “heaven on earth, and 2) they get to look down into hell and see all the rest of us burning and feel oh-so-speshul.

      • Heidi

        Just this morning there was an infomercial on to send Jews back to Israel. The main point, or even the point at all, didn’t seem to be to get Jews out of anti-Semitic countries but to hasten the end times. I really don’t understand how someone could believe in an all-powerful God and think they could actually manipulate the end times. So bizarre.

        • Sean Jungian

          It’s completely bizarre. And yes, they support Israel mostly because Israel is key to the so-called “prophecy” of Revelation. (A prophecy that loonies created – Revelation was quite clearly written as thinly-disguised analogy to the Roman Empire at the time).

  • Dr. W

    Since the housing market crash of 2008, people are scared. Unlike 911, where we felt scared but united, this has been a divisive, class-based fear, that has been surprisingly rational. The rich really have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer. These are the times that people look for a strong man to help them feel safe.

    Unlike a Huey Long, a demagogue who went after the rich and powerful, Trump is a rich guy who is gonna cut his own taxes and worsen the underlying issue. Trump is liar, a pied piper, a guy whose likely policies cannot actually address the issues that brought him to power. At some point, the spell will break. Trump is going to do some damage, but provided we live, I think America will get back on track. We have survived terrible presidencies before: Jackson, Hayes, Grant, Harding, Nixon, W.

    My overriding fear is that we are all gonna die in a nuke fight. I don’t think this is likely, I just think it is way more likely than at any time before. I hate thinking in terms of relative risk for species survival. We elected Goldwater. I hope we live.

    • Laura J

      It’s going to be OK!

      • momofone

        I’m really curious about what you base this on.

        • Dr. W

          She bases it on Jeebus. He is like Jesus, only he does not love you and wants a nuclear war. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

          • momofone

            Exactly. The nuclear war possibility is very scary to me. And I worry that all it will takes a well-placed (or worse, some random) Tweet to get it going, since fussy two-year-olds have better impulse control than Trump does.

          • ForeverMe

            yes, this! i can’t understand why everyone doesn’t see this!

            […The nuclear war possibility is very scary to me. And I worry that all it will take is a well-placed (or worse, some random) Tweet to get it going, since fussy two-year-olds have better impulse control than Trump does.]

          • Madtowngirl

            I feel like every leader of a nuclear armed country needs to visit the Hiroshima Peace Museum. It’s pretty damned sobering.

          • Nick Sanders
          • Melissa Wickersham

            Nick, that pic in your link speaks the truth.

          • Madtowngirl

            OMG. Yes. I love this.

    • fiftyfifty1

      “Trump is a rich guy who is gonna cut his own taxes ”

      Don’t be silly. Trump doesn’t pay taxes.

      • Dr. W

        touche

  • MaineJen

    In every other election, even if I haven’t liked the president-elect, I’ve always had a certain respect for the office of president and the system as a whole.

    This is different. This time the system has elected-against the wishes of the majority of voters-someone I absolutely can’t respect. Someone I can’t accept. I can’t go along to get along, not this time.

    I am desperately casting about for something to do about this. Anything. Letter writing? Phone calls? We can call our representatives and senators, let them know how scared and helpless we feel and beg them to be voices of reason in the coming years. We can prop up social programs like Planned Parenthood (which are sure to be defunded now) with donations.

    What else?

    • Laura J

      I embrace it all. What a great time to be alive and see the Prophecy unfold! The majority voted for change and glad to see it happen. I am not afraid. Fear is having no faith!

      • momofone

        That at least makes sense. If you have a religious belief about a prophecy, then electing Trump as an agent of destruction makes a lot more sense than thinking he’s going to improve things. I guess it’s a vote for running into the fire, so to speak. I don’t share the prophecy belief, so his election does frighten me, not just about what he will do, and how he will do it, but because it forces me to see some things in some of the people I’ve held in high regard that I would rather not be the case.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          Trump is Gozar?

          Gozar worshippers?

          After the First World War, Shandor decided that society was too sick to survive. And he wasn’t alone; he had close to a thousand followers when he died. They conducted rituals up on the roof, bizarre rituals intended to bring about the end of the world, and now it looks like it may actually happen!

          This all makes sense! Imagine Trump as a giant marshmallow man.

          • Melissa Wickersham

            LOL at that image. BTW, it’s “Gozer”, not “Gozar”.

          • MaineJen

            What did you do Ray???? (Or should I say, Laura J)

        • Laura J

          What’s to say if he is a Biff! Don’t worry, we’ll be FINE! 🙂

      • MaineJen

        K.

    • StephanieA

      I was trying to explain this to my mother. While I don’t agree with most republican policies and viewpoints, I wouldn’t have been devastated if, say, John Kasich were the president elect. It’s the fact that Trump is a sexist, racist, all around horrible person that I just cannot be okay with this.

      I will say that I am terrified that Pence is VP. I live in Indiana and the ridiculous shit he tried to pass here is terrifying.

      • Heidi

        I sometimes wonder if having Trump as the president wasn’t intentional? I mean, there’s a good chance he’ll get himself impeached, he’s going to trial while he’s president FFS! Trump is a horrible person but he’s so narcissistic and self-serving and honestly pretty dumb that I’m not sure he’d put a lot of effort into undoing our hard-fought civil rights victories. That leaves us with Pence as president, who would have never won the presidential bid with his history. Trump’s already nominated Stephen Bannon as chief strategist. That guy is beyond sinister. The people Trump is surrounding himself with is scarier than Trump alone.

      • Empress of the Iguana People

        Kasich’s not too bad as governor, although I disagree with most of his policies. Pence is as scary as Trump to me, for very different reasons.

        • StephanieA

          I agree. I don’t agree with Kasich, but I wouldn’t have been as upset if it had been him instead of Trump. Pence scares the crap out of me- his abortion laws he tried to pass were terrifying.

  • Melissa Wickersham

    I agree wholeheartedly with you, Dr. Tuteur. The question remains: what can we do about this? We are going down the same road as Nazi Germany did, and it necessarily took a World War to defeat Nazi Germany and defeat fascism in Europe.
    We cannot have World War Three as an option. World War Three could destroy the human species and devastate the ecosphere much worse than the ecosphere has already been evastated.

    • Laura J

      NO he is a healer of nations. You will see…

      • Dr. W

        Got Haldol?

      • momofone

        I keep hoping you’re joking, and then I realize you aren’t.

        • Laura J

          Not this time 🙂

      • Nick Sanders

        The man couldn’t hold his temper for 20 minutes in the first debate, and he’s supposed to be a diplomatic figure?

    • Mark

      The next election is two years away. Remain strong see what went wrong this time and do better in the future.

    • Maya Markova

      I think you are seeing the situation bleaker than it is. Germany had no tradition of democracy. The USA has a long one. It has plenty of safeguards. It is a good system. A good system is not one that puts a good person on top (nobody has yet built such one), but one that prevents a bad person who is on top from doing too much damage. There is surely no way for Mr. Trump to e.g. stand up to go to the toilet at 4.30 AM and push the nuclear button on the way back.

  • N

    Dr. Tuteur, I want you to continue writing about topics like this one. This is important and we should not close our eyes on it, even if it is not your usual domain. As you are very talented to write, and to write a lot, you should continue to use it. You are right with the strongman vs president idea, and the fascist methods. How else would people like Putin or the Front National or the AfD be delighted with your new president?
    Let’s not close our eyes blindly, let’s do what we can to stop history to repeat itself. If writing is what you can do, so write. Thank you.

  • Gatita

    The explosion in hate crimes less than a week after the election has been unbelievable. A coworker’s niece was spat on in the New York City subway. A friend’s employee in Dallas was told to go back to Mexico while at a gas station. A white woman I know in Canton, OH was called a n-lover by a teenage boy because she was wearing a safety pin. And right in my neighborhood two actors on a TV series were verbally and nearly physically assaulted by Trump supporters who went up to them in a bar and called them cucks (an alt right term for emasculated men). As a Latina I’m terrified. The only other time I’ve felt this was was right after the 9/11 attacks. I feel so betrayed by my country. What’s going to happen to us?

    • Laura J

      there is more to life than gallavanting through the strees and whining about not getting what you want. Get a job or love your family more. 3 million Amish voted in OH- pennsylvania area. It’s going to be OK!! Faith, faith. Let’s move on now.

      • Taysha

        Your faith is not mine.

        And my faith is recoiling at the thrice married adulterer who mocks disabled people, insults immigrants and is disgusted by women.

        Not sure who your god is, but your god seems vile.

        • Laura J

          Same God. God is LOVE. We all interpret differently. Fear is having No faith of the future.

          • Taysha

            LOVE didn’t elect this president.

            Blessed are the ignorant, for they know not what they’ve done.

            I reject YOUR God.

          • Laura J

            So many reasons why people reject love with each other as well. Blessed are the fearful of the future.

          • Taysha

            Blessed are the fearful doesn’t jive with “have no fear”

            I reject YOU, your ideas and YOUR god.

            My god is love. Your god is vile.

          • Laura J

            So is mine… even saw Hillary getting the popular votes, not the win she wanted. I have no fear. You missed His frequencies then.

          • Taysha

            If you’re done spewing –

            You voted for a racist, misogynistic, sexual predator with no god, and claim him to be chosen by god.

            You have painted yourself with that brush. Enjoy the fleas.

            Your lack of humility is astounding for a person who proclaims to God. And your impression that I somehow had a candidate and am potentially expressing sour grapes (surprise, answer to both is no) makes you blind.

            Your god is pride. But don’t worry. You don’t answer to me. You will answer to Him. I daresay you won’t like his response.

          • Laura J

            Spewing? Hardly. Discussing perspectives & intellectual stuff. Don’t worry, America will be FINE! You ‘ll see it’s for the better. Sure protesters…they were there when Obama got elected. Can’t make everyone happy! Um not going to play your silly game of going on misinterpretations that you read on the media that tried to steer ppl away from voting him. The majority rules in this case. Enjoy the ride!

          • Nick Sanders

            If majority ruled, we’d be talking about President-elect Clinton right now.

          • Laura J

            God’s Love and Ours
            7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

            13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

            God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

            19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

          • Nick Sanders

            Trump loves no one but Trump.

          • N

            Are we allowed to love our immigrant brothers and sisters than? What about our black brothers and sisters, can we love them? What about muslims? Well at least my female muslim dentist – she is the best dentist I ever had – I am allowed to love her, am I? Or my italian hard working father, can I love him? My russian, polish, english and portuguese neighbours? Can I love them? Or should I want to send them all home and build a wall around our country? Oh no, in that case I would have to throw myself out of this country too, as my father is not from here. But would the italians accept and love me, as a) I don’t speak italian very well and b) my mother is not from italy?

          • Laura J

            funny the muslims that I know support the Wall too!

          • Laura J

            Blessed are people like Taysha who likes to think she is above & beyond. Nope. No one is. God is not rejecting you. God is ALL around us and you too!

          • Laura J

            You’re just mad because your candidate didn’t get in! Maybe next time she will. Don’t despair. Maybe her time is next.

          • momofone

            For many people, including me, the problem is not that Clinton wasn’t elected; it’s that he was.

          • Laura J

            I know people are scared upset, but so were ppl when Obama was elected. It’s going to be ok!

          • Maya Markova

            And they were damn right. After Obama, we in the Old World are having wars and genocides left and right. (I mean Syria and Ukraine.) I wondered what the next step in the evolution of US presidents would be… and here it is.

          • Sarah

            Mmm, I don’t even like Clinton! She’s dodgy as fuck and I didn’t trust for one second that she wouldn’t manage to start a war. It took someone like Trump to make her look like a more sensible option.

      • Heidi

        You are one morally bankrupt individual.

        • Laura J

          You didn’t see “Back to the FUture,” and its predictions? Come on!

          • Heidi

            No, personally I try to avoid click-bait and boring YouTube videos.

          • Laura J

            ah your loss then! SO out of touch!

          • momofone

            I haven’t seen Back to the Future, but I’ve seen Cinderella. Should I be waiting for the bluebirds to show up and sew me a ball gown?

          • Laura J

            NO it’s actual predictions before they emerged. Did you by chance see the Simpson’s prediction?
            Let’s play with this a bit. Even before the titanic was sunk, some book predicted it before it happened. So whether or not Trump is a Biff…time will tell.

          • momofone

            Sorry, but I can’t engage any further with you about this. I appreciate your responses because they’ve given me a different context to use in thinking about this, but it comes across to me as the same thing as deciding to drive your car in front of a train. If you choose that for yourself, there’s not much I can do about it, but I’m not ok with your choosing it for me and my family.

          • Laura J
          • Heidi

            They were educated guesses. I think most of us knew computers were going to get smaller, we might drive flying cars (that one still hasn’t happened), we’d already voted a cowboy actor into the White House so why wouldn’t we kinda vote in a nonqualified, reality TV show star egomaniac?

          • Laura J

            I think it’s very intriguing. No flying cars..just the people of interest..

          • Laura J
          • Azuran

            FFS you idiot, that elevator scene has been debunked SO LONG AGO.
            It didn’t air in 2000. It aired in July 2015, AFTER Donald Trump was filmed going down that elevator.

            As for the Simpson ‘predicting’ the trump presidency. Trump had already talked multiple time about running for president in the past. So it’s not like the Simpsons just pulled it out of their asses.

            And beside, when you run a show for as long as the Simpson has been running. OF COURSE some of the things you say are going to become real. Doesn’t mean they predicted the future, they just got lucky

          • Laura J

            It’s so interesting!

          • N

            Upvoted. For the educated guesses.

          • guest

            Laura J, you’re thinking about it all wrong. These shows and movies didn’t predict anything. They created visions of the future. It’s on us if we chose to turn those visions into reality.

          • Laura J

            Visions or predictions..either way I got your gears churning. Happy Supermoon!

          • guest

            No, sweetie, the only thing in my you got moving was my eyes as they rolled. Your video clips are not even new to me, as I had already seen them reposted before the election. Your troll game is plagiarized.

          • Laura J

            Discussion to put it correctly. Blinder than a needle.

          • Sarah

            Snort. Are you saying Homer Simpson is the new Nostradamus? Because if so, that might just be the most sensible thing you’ve ever posted.

          • Laura J

            interesting, huh?

          • Sarah

            I was going to say deranged, but we can use your word.

          • Nick Sanders

            Then where is my consumer model hoverboard and miniature rehydrateable pizza? Oh wait, it’s a work of fiction that managed by sheer coincidence to be close to the truth.

          • Cody

            What in the fuck are you going on about?

          • Heidi

            I’ve seen The Road. I’m kind of afraid that might be too close to what the future holds.

          • Laura J

            I want to see Dr. Strange…looks really intriguing.

          • N

            I’m a fan of Mad Max. The old movies with Mel Gibson. Wouldn’t that be a great future?

          • Box of Salt

            “Back to the FUture,” and its predictions?

            They got the year wrong for the Cubs win.

          • Laura J

            Great Scot! 9/11 ring a bell, too?

        • Laura J
      • mostlyclueless

        Jesus just shut up already.

        • Laura J

          No

      • Sean Jungian

        Oh wow, you are creepy as fuck.

    • Gatita

      I just have to point out that I’m the only non-white person in the thread and she told me I needed to get a job.

      Laura, I have a degree from an ivy league university, a master’s degree, and a high-paying job in information technology. I’m married to a man who works as a sys admin and makes well over 6 figures. We live in a beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood with a beautiful child. I can’t say I’m sorry that your life is not as good as mine. I also can’t say that I’m sorry that I’m working as hard as I can to keep bigots from harming me and my family.

      • Empliau

        Well, I’m damn sorry you have to.

    • lily

      Oh I agree. I have had people to tell me go “go back to Mexico.” My Spanish family has been here since the 1750s when California belonged to Mexico and interbred with Native Americans, so I’d be home if the US had not gotten my state. My son has had anchor baby bullshit, my Syrian Muslim friend has been harrassed daily and my Chinese goddaughters have been called Chink and asked if they knew English. Seeing as they are third generation Americans, they have. A local Asian women was sprayed with a hose as she walked down her street in Venice Beach. It’s getting scary and I am not letting my son go anywhere by himself anymore. Which sucks for him as he’s 13, but I don’t want him getting killed by some KKK wanabees. And we are in Los Angeles, for heaven’s sake! A pretty liberal area…

      • Gatita

        We’re also in a very liberal area and I never in my wildest dreams thought that things like this would be right in my backyard. I’m scared to death to be honest.

    • Maya Markova

      Why had that brat an issue with your friend’s safety pin? To me, it is simply a standard solution when you want one button more than you have.

      • Gatita

        There’s a group that’s promoting wearing safety pins as a way to signal that you are *safe” person, i.e. not a bigot.

    • Mel

      A friend of mine was using FaceTime to talk with a Deaf colleague using ASL when some dumbass started told him to “Get out of this country! This is White Time Now, retard! Trump is president!”

      He was so shocked he left.

      As a white woman, I’m not going to start a bias/hate-crime incident – but I swear to God, if someone starts one when I’m around – I WILL FINISH IT. I’ll call you out. I’ll tell you exactly what I think about bullies like you. I will not be using polite language. And remember – I make a phenomenal witness in court. I’m professional, articulate and look amazingly adorable in a suit. By all means, try me.

      Fuck this shit. We are better than this.

  • Reader

    I have always enjoyed reading the articles on this site because it was mostly about topics regarding obstetrics/breastfeeding/home birth/BFHI but there seems to be an altered focus of the topics recently…more towards politics/religion. I was a supporter until the articles began sounding more like the writings of a cult leader than someone with sound medical knowledge (which I do believe Dr. Amy has). Personally, I prefer reading about her medical knowledge than her religious and political views.

    • Nick Sanders

      Broadening her topics hardly makes Dr. Tuteur sound like a cult leader.

    • Sarah

      You had a point about the slide into political stuff (check my previous posts if you want proof I’ve said similar before) until you threw cult leader in there.

    • Erin

      I had similar thoughts until I remembered just how much influence politics and religion can have on our rights to breastfeed/not breastfeed, to have a choice in where we give birth and how we give birth and perhaps most importantly of all, our ability to control our own fertility.

      I grew up in Germany and we went on a school trip to Bergen Belsen. It was there I first heard the Martin Niemöller quote:

      “First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Socialist.

      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Jew.

      Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

      Lets not make the same mistakes. Democracy needs debate and discussion. It needs dissenting voices because without it, we’re lost.

      • N

        Upvoted!

      • J.B.

        Yes, plus hasn’t the right been all about Ayn Rand for years? Who was anti-Soviet totalinarianism, but the techniques are similar. And has been spending the last 8 years calling Obama a nazi…

        I also just read a blog post from an African-American writer asking “what form of peaceful protest would be acceptable to you?” Marches, taking a knee during the national anthem, etc apparently causing the world to end…

    • mabelcruet

      It’s Dr Tuteur’s blog. She can choose to write and publish what she wants, and similarly, you can choose to read or not read. As a reader from the UK, I find it interesting to read the views of American citizens (and other nationalities in the comment sections) about the election as these are the views of real people living and working in this system, views unfiltered by media bias or editorial preferences.

    • maidmarian555

      The current global political lurch to the right is utterly relevant to women’s rights. With an authoritarian, paternalistic, misogynist President in place, it is somewhat inevitable that women will suffer as a result. Look at the language he used in the debates when talking about late-term abortion. A person might think that the rules surrounding late-term abortion don’t apply to them because they would ‘never get one’ but *any* woman could find herself in the position of Savita Halappanavar who died in Ireland after a miscarriage did not progress quickly enough and nobody would do anything to help her because they were more afraid of being arrested than they were of preventing her death. You have a leader who’s bragged about sexually assaulting women and who believes his wife should have dinner on the table when he gets home from work. For many of the issues Dr Amy has raised in this very blog, Trump could be an unmitigated disaster, dragging women back into the 1950s and destroying the rights you currently take for granted. And for those of us who don’t live in the USA, there’s a saying that when America sneezes, we all catch a cold.

    • Heidi

      Nah, I think asking us not to talk about what just happened is more geared to being a cult.

    • BeatriceC

      Have you given even a cursory glance to Pence’s record on women’s health issues? Are you even marginally familiar with the Republican platform in regards to women and their heath? Unless you’re head has been buried under a rock for the last few decades, it’s impossible to fail to see that these people and their policies directly impact women’s health. That’s a very appropriate topic of conversation for an OB/GYN to blog about. Her non-retired colleagues across the country are going to have to clean up the mess that will be created by Republican legislators not just in regards to women’s health care, but health care in general. Dr. Amy wouldn’t be much of a doctor if she didn’t care about that. Thankfully she not only cares, but isn’t afraid to speak out. I appreciate her for that.

      And even none of that was relevant, it’s her blog. She gets to write about whatever she wants to write about.

    • lily

      Oh no, God forbid Dr Amy writes what SHE wants to on HER blog! *clutches pearls* No, she does not sound like a cult leader, FFS. Sh is a realist who wants people ready to fight for their rights. Don’t like it, go somewhere else or ignore the political posts.

  • Emilie Bishop

    Thank you for this. On top of all you’ve said, the man can’t string two grammatically correct sentences together on the same topic. He is willfully ignorant of policy and protocol. And in the face of POC and Muslims reporting an uptick in harassment since the election, all he says publically is he won, so stop with the protests. People say, oh, it won’t impact you as much as you think, just be uber-intentional in teaching your children to be kind and tolerant…but what about parents who will be deported without their American-born kids? What about war? What about the fact that after years of trying to educate the majority on how to respectfully address minorities, our elected leader says that’s all bullshit? I haven’t slept well or felt not-queasy since Monday when I thought for sure I’d close the week cheering on our first Madam President. It’s almost like 9/12/2001.

  • Laura J

    Part of a prophecy. God appointed him through the people. May as well disagree, but the many reasons why not everyone is happy. Fear. Uncertainty. It’s impossible to make everyone happy regardless of what party side we’re on. Sure we may have a Biff in the white house…or we can move on and love our families more, show our children the way and be great leaders of the future.

    • Melissa Wickersham

      Did God appoint Adolf Hitler as leader of the German people? Did God appoint Saddam Hussein as leader of Iraq? Did God appoint Kim Jong-Un and his father to lead the North Koreans?

      No. God didn’t appoint any of those people as leaders of any country. God had nothing to do with those dictatorships. God certainly did not choose to elect Trump as president.
      God didn’t put fascist or tyrannical dictators in power, humanity did.

      • Laura J

        Wrong again. Prophecy rules. Should read the bible too.Word of GOD.

        • Azuran

          So……you are saying that God appointed Hitler and wanted the Holocaust.
          Why would I what to follow such a god?

          • Laura J

            Hitler actually went against the scriptures of God. He had a vision that was against peace & harmony.

          • Azuran

            And yet Pussy grabbing Racist Trump is the will of God?

          • Laura J

            Media hype. SHould read up on the blacks that voted for him.

          • Laura J

            https://i.redd.it/afiy4bmpgwwx.jpg

            Don’t you remember figures in the bible that became better? It takes a bit of life experience to redeem themselves.

          • Azuran

            Oh yea, the ‘I’m not a racist, I have a black friend’ trope.
            And the fact that black people voted for him doesn’t mean he’s not a racist.

          • Laura J

            Hitler was against God.

          • Nick Sanders

            So is Trump.

          • Poogles

            Hitler certainly didn’t think so – he believed he was doing “The Lord’s work”.

        • MaineJen

          I have read the bible. All of it. That’s why I’m an atheist.

    • MaineJen

      Oh FFS. This is possibly the least helpful comment I’ve read today. I’m sorry but “God appointed him through the people?” First of all, “the people” elected someone else. Secondly, this argument automatically absolves you from having to take any real action, as it’s all chalked up to god’s will.

      Very frustrating. Personally, I’m going to make sure my kids see NONE of DT’s speeches, or as few as I can manage in the coming years. I’m trying to raise kind, generous and thoughtful people and he’s a bad example.

      • Laura J

        Sorry but wrong! Prophecy rules and God’s will. This is amazing history you are about to witness! TRump USA USA. God is good, God is great…unless you are an atheist fool. Hen.. It’s a great time to see all the prophecy unfold. Did you not watch info on predictions? So misinformed! Haha.

        • Dr. W

          We refer to the time that prophecy was more important than science or rational thought as the dark ages. We do that for a reason. You could read about the Enlightenment for further information. Jeebus nutjobs ranting about prophecy are always extremely concerning because they invariably mean the end of the world. This particular kind of Jeebus freek is usually so frightened of their own personal death that not even the promise of an afterlife can reassure them. They NEED the world to end before they do because they cannot even bear the thought of dying before eternal salvation. They just want to go directly to Heaven, and if 7 billion have to die for their fear, so be it.

        • MaineJen

          K.

      • Sarah

        I’d be more inclined to believe God appointed him through the people if he’d actually got the most votes.

      • N

        My children played Trump vs Clinton today. My son (9 years old) was Trump and his sister (5 years old) was Clinton. I swear they never saw anything including T or C on TV. We don’t even live in the US, why should they?
        And yet their interpretation of a battle between T and C was really good. First they talked in a rude way to each other, than they insulted each other, My son/T insulting my daughter/C more loudly and aggressively, as he is older and can do it better. In the end they fought each other, until I stopped them.

    • Taysha

      Unless you mean revelations, not sure what prophecy you mean.

      And that one didn’t end well.

      • Laura J

        Healer. Bible coded. Do you realize we are bombing 7 nations right now?

        • Taysha

          You do realize this man’s idea for stopping that is to drop nukes on them and be done, right?

          As I said. Revelations all the way.

          • Laura J

            Time will tell.

          • Taysha

            Blessed are the blind, for at least they have an excuse to not see.

          • Laura J

            Haha not really that bright. Oh saw Hillary get the popular vote before the election.

          • Laura J

            And those nations have evil in their lands? Middle East cradle of civilization.

        • Nick Sanders

          The bible is long enough that you can invent a code to create any message you want out of it.