Kellyanne Conway, I’m a feminist and you are too!

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Speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference this morning, Kellyanne Conway declared that she is not a classic feminist:

Did you marry the man of your choice or did your father trade you along with a goat and some land for family advantage?

It’s difficult for me to call myself a feminist in a classic sense because it seems to be very anti-male, and it certainly is very pro-abortion, and I’m neither anti-male or pro-abortion,” Conway said during a conversation onstage with conservative commentator Mercedes Schlapp. “So, there’s an individual feminism, if you will, that you make your own choices. … I look at myself as a product of my choices, not a victim of my circumstances.

Well, Kellyanne, I’m a feminist in the classic sense and I know that you are too.

How do I know that you are a feminist? It’s pretty easy.

Feminism has nothing to do with hating men and everything to do with women being intellectually, economically and morally equivalent to men.

    • You vote. You are exercising one of the first rights brought to you by feminists.
    • You probably have your own bank account, credit card or mortgage. Those economic rights are brought to you by feminism.
    • Did you marry the man or your choice or did your father trade you along with a goat and some land in exchange for greater family prestige or advantage? If you chose, you are a feminist.
    • Do you use birth control? Choosing to control your own fertility makes you a feminist.
    • You have a professional job and political power. You can thank feminism.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. Unless you are prepared to give up all those rights, you are a classic feminist whether you admit it to yourself or not.

Lots of men are feminists, too (yet another reason why classic feminism has nothing to do with hating men). For men who are wondering if they are classic feminists, ask yourself:

  • Do you own your wife? No, you’re a feminist.
  • Do you spend the money that your wife earns? You’re benefiting from feminism.
  • Did you marry the woman (or man) of your choice, or did you pay a bride price or receive a dowry for her? If you chose, you’re a feminist.
  • Have you committed any honor killings lately? No, that’s because feminists have successfully broken the link between women’s sexual purity and men’s honor.

Kellyanne Conway, you can protest all you want that you are a aren’t a classic feminist but unless you are immured in your home, unable to go out without the escort of a male relative, and swathed in a burqa when you do leave your home, you are a feminist.

A woman’s right to control her own body follows inevitably from classic feminism, but people can differ as to whether that encompasses abortion. Believing in the right to choose pregnancy termination is not a requirement of feminism.

Simply put, Kellyanne, if you believe that women are morally vested with the same legal, political and economic rights as men, and you clearly do, you are a classic feminist and most Republican women are classic feminists, too. I don’t care what call yourselves or how you try to fool yourselves and others with your demurrals. I’ve seen how you behave and you behave like classic feminists … just like me.

  • KQ Not Signed In

    “It is because I belong to a generation, that was teached “proper english” at school.” -Dagfinn Klausen

    I’m sorry, this is the funniest thing I’ve seen in days. I haven’t even made it through the entire thread, but this particular comment made me laugh so hard I’m bumping it to the top.

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      lol, I know! Normally, I let non-native speakers slide but he’s so very persistant that my teacher streak kicked in. The first time it was a genuine effort on my part to help a fellow human. Now it’s to tweak him with his insistance that he knows English better than every other person who has ever commented here!

      • MaineJen

        Well, he knows more about feminism than women do. Why shouldn’t he know more about english than native speakers do?

        • Dagfinn Klausen

          I really enjoyed the conversation. Collectively, You proved my point, by not being able to have any factual comments during the whole evening.
          Being a male, though, I must say I am really disappointed. I had expected a lot more from Feminist activists like You.
          But, obviously I was wrong.
          Thank You, and Good Night.
          Wish You all well.

          • Azuran

            You know, a smart person, when they learn that something they have been thought is false, will embrace the new knowledge and use it to better themselves.
            Your insistence at still capitalizing the Y in ‘you’ on purpose, despite you being told it is not correct English, using the excuse of ‘well I was thought that way 60 years ago so I will keep doing it’ is pretty much exposing you as an old man from another time who’s just enable to change his out of date views and evolve with the rest of society.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Not to mention that even 1970 wasn’t quite 50 years ago.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you Empress, for brushing up my memories. I was born in 1949, learned english from the radio in Norway, by listening to “Radio Luxemburg”.

            Really good memories, when the most important question was: “Are you a Cliff Richard fan or an Elvis fan”?

            Do not recall encountering any “Feminists” then, but remember lots of attractive girls. They seemed to be all over the place…

          • MaineJen

            It was 1970 and you didn’t meet *any* feminists? Maybe some of those attractive girls were closet feminists. The very idea… 😮

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I think you have a good point there.
            I have always been of the opinion, that we men, have been thinking we are superiour to our female counterparts. This is not true.

            Why can we not be ourself and respect each other? A relationship is supposed to be a duet – not a duel.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DK_qqDC1VE

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Message taken.
            Have now changed from capital Y´s, and have agreed that I have been wrong. Will only use small y´s in the future.
            Thank you!

          • MaineJen

            You didn’t provide us with any facts. Only your opinion, which is that we feminists are on the “wrong track” somehow. IDK, I’m kind of enjoying my ability to earn my own living and be considered the equal of my male colleagues.

            So, yeah. You were wrong.

  • Empress of the Iguana People

    Oh look, one of the Mens Rights dudes is back

    • Dagfinn Klausen

      Thank You, but as this being about Your future (and mine), please go soft on the “pianoplayer”, and instead hit the facts.

      • MaineJen

        Dude, you literally came in here with guns blazing: “AS A MAN, let me explain what feminism is *really* about!”

        And you think you’re the one being attacked for being “just the messenger?” Please.

        • Dagfinn Klausen

          Thank You. You really made me think.

          If You want my opinion, it is as follows.
          Women and Men are born and raised different. If we are able to pass on Women that are better Women, and Men, that are better Men – “Mission accomplished”.

          This being said. Development of Mankind is “Gene driven, not “Political driven”.

          • Azuran

            Mostly, Development of Mankind is driven by science and society in general.
            Are you saying that we shouldn’t treat the sick and let them die so their genes don’t drag us down?
            And being different doesn’t mean one is better than the other. Hence, both have the same rights.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            According to Jesus Christ, taking care of the weak, is one of the most important deeds, being a Christian.

            But Jesus was also quite frank about other part of our life, that touches this debate.

          • Azuran

            I didn’t read the bible. So answer the question: What are we supposed to do with people who have ‘undesirable genes’

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            We are supposed to give them our unconditional love.

          • Azuran

            Seeing as we were talking about rights and genetics and our birth rate, the actual question is: Do they have equal rights and what do we do if they want to have kids?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Difficult question.
            If I was in this situation, I would apply for having a child that is in for abdoption – pending I would be honest enough to admit it would not be for my sake, but for the child´s.

          • Azuran

            I see you are still dodging the question. It’s not about what you personally would do. It’s about other people’s right. Do they have equal rights and should they have the same right as anybody else to reproduce.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            This has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with realizing you have responsibilities.
            If you are unable to reproduce, who would be interested in your cry for “rights”?

            By the way, does anybody in this debate honestly think that Feminism started out of nothing? Please do your research, and you will find that there are powerful forces initiating and backing this political movement.

          • Nick Sanders

            If you are unable to reproduce, who would be interested in your cry for “rights”?

            It’s called having empathy.

            By the way, does anybody in this debate honestly think that Feminism started out of nothing?

            Not a single person thinks that. It started out of women being sick of being second-class citizens and working together to do something about it.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Nick, it mothers did not have children, You and I would not be debating.
            The Western World is breeding too few children. Feminism is part of the problem, and if you research the origin, you will conclude, as I have concluded, it did not happen by chance.

          • Nick Sanders

            Nobody is telling women not to have children. No amount of equal rights, availability of birth control, or working outside the house is going to stop most people from wanting a kid or two.

            Even this blog, filled with feminists as it is, is mostly populated by mothers.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You are wrong.
            This blog is populated by women that had mothers.
            No more mothers, no more Femininists.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Dude, scan the other posts’ comments. At least 4 regulars have had babies in the last 10 months. Feminism does not preclude procreation. 2 more are expecting.

          • Azuran

            Honestly, the only thing Dagfinn does is make me feel bad about bringing a baby girl in a world where people like him still exist.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Yeah, there are days when I need to snuggle my girl more because sometimes being female really sucks.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Suggest you try to educate her to think for herself, so she is not led astray by TPTB.
            If you take a peek into how TPTB tricked american women into smoking, you will understand what I mean.
            It is well described in the BBC documentary “The Century of self”, freely available on YouTube.

          • Azuran

            So I should teach her that she is worth less than men, that she has less rights and shouldn’t hope for equality because it will bring the end of the world and that her role as a ‘real women’ is to have babies.

            Hell no.

          • MaineJen

            Well, I just this morning had a conversation with my daughter in which I told her she doesn’t have to get married, or have a baby, unless she wants to.

          • myrewyn

            Ahem. Expecting my third.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Congrats!

          • N

            I won’t read everything you and everyone here wrote. So perhaps you already explained.
            I don’t understand why and how feminism is going to extinct itself because of feminism.
            If I have the choice to have x children, because I’m a feminist – that is not a gene, I can’t pass it on to my children, just educate them to it, and education doesn’t work like brainwashing – my x children will also have the choice to have x children, perhaps more than myself, perhaps less, who knows. It will never happen that a whole generation will have 0 children. So there will always be children choosing later on to have children.
            I can’t see where feminism enters the equation, except for the choice-thing.
            If in our society there are lesser and lesser children, it has more to do with socio-economic background than feminism.
            By the way, I have 3 children. Most women I know have between 0 and 5 children. Why is it a problem, if one woman (family!! In most cases it is a family choice based on economics, risk factors for the woman…, not a woman only choice, even if the woman will have the last word about it.) CHOOSES to have 0 children, when another one will CHOOSE to have 5 children?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You have several good points here. But if you consider all the abortions that take place, the situation will change dramatically. Since abortion became legal in USA, 55 – 60 million abortions have been performed.

            If you research who Margaret Sanger was, and who is behind Planned Parenthood, you will find direct connections to TPTB.

          • Who?

            So here it is people-feminists are to blame because feminists think a woman should have autonomy over her body, including the right to a termination of pregnancy.

            DK’s true position is revealed.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            If that is the case, I suggest the women use their lawful rights to abortion wisely, unless they want to be extinct within a couple of generations. Birtrates are far below level of sustainability, which has been an important goal for TPTB.

          • N

            Feminism is not going to extinct itself, because of birthcontrol or abortion.
            Who are TPTB??? My google tells me it is the powers that be. Why does that make me think of the series “Angel”, spinoff from “Buffy, the vampire slayer”? And why would they want us to get below levels of sustainability? Doesn’t make sense. Oh no, do we – again – need our tinfoil hats?

            I think MaineJen has a point here: “And a negative population growth rate in white, western countries is ONLY a problem if YOU have a problem with white people being in the minority.”

          • Who?

            DK is in thrall to Big Tinfoil.

            That much is clear.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            I said it all on the first day. The guy is a blithering loon. I don’t know why anyone is engaging him seriously.

          • Nick Sanders

            I’ve been falling behind on my quota for yelling at bigots lately, so I’m trying to make up for lost time. I haven’t gotten a slur filled Facebook message in months…

          • MaineJen

            I find him fascinating. You know, in an anthropological/sociological sense.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Do you want to get a sample of his brain tissue?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-FRC9f0iag

          • MaineJen

            He’s a legitimate phenomenon.

          • Who?

            Perhaps men should take their responsibilities as seed spreaders seriously, choosing to have unprotected intercourse only when they intend to create a new life with a partner they know is open to such a thing?

            Or should the boys be free to rumble and the girls pick up the tab?

          • Mishimoo

            Don’t be silly, everyone knows it’s always the girls’ fault 😉

          • Who?

            My bad.

            I always forget that a woman’s place is in the wrong.

            Hope your world is good.

          • Mishimoo

            I’ve just started the Bachelors of Information Studies, I love it already! Applied with a large law firm in the city which frequently advertises for research assistants, and wished I could have picked your brain to see if I have a chance or not. I hope your world is good too!

          • Who?

            Well done you! Good luck with the study and the job search.

            Is there was some way to swap contact details? I’d be happy to point you to whoever might be able to help-or steer you clear of who to avoid.

            All good here.

          • Mishimoo

            Thanks! I’m glad your world is going well too.
            I’d love to swap details and keep in touch via another medium because I value your advice, I’m just not sure how to organise it without putting my email address up here for trolls to find. Maybe Dr. Amy could facilitate?

          • Heidi

            http://www.throwawaymail.com/ You could always make one of these. They last 45 minutes I think and you could exchange contact info.

          • Mishimoo

            Thanks for that, I didn’t even know it existed!

          • Nick Sanders

            Level of sustainability? Who the fuck cares, we have nearly eight billion people in the world! If, right now the birthrate droped so low that with every generation the number of people in the world decreased by half (not just the size of the generation but the entire world population) it would take us three generations, 60 years, just to get down to one billion, a population number the world held steady at for ages. Even at such a fantastically low birthrate, we would have decades to alter course if we became concerned about “extinction”. At the barely below replacement rate you’re whining about? Centuries, maybe millennia.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well, I must admit you certainly have some good points.
            If you look closer into the numbers, it is the former generations that keep the numbers up. They were many (After WWII), and are now about to exit the statistics. Expect the coming generations to cause the reproduction rates to drop significally and rapidly after that.
            About what level og population that is considered ideal, TPTB have tried to define it. The figures vary between 500 million (The George Guidestones) and 1.5 billion.
            Myself, I prefer leaving this question to God, rather than Man, but that may be just me.

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            Look at you, taking no responsibility! Stick your head in the sand and let the Goddess decide!

          • Azuran

            Seriously? I don’t care if we go extinct in a few generations (which we wont)
            Pregnancy is not a walk through the park. I’m going through it because I want a baby. I’m not going to hurt my body and risk my life birthing babies I don’t want for the survival of humanity.

          • N

            Sorry, I still don’t see why feminism is going to extinct itself because of feminism. Even with legal abortions, women still will have between 0 and 5 (or more) children. Why does it matter what some women make with there body? Most women have reasons to abort. No one will use abortion with every change of underwear, like, hey, what the heck, I can get pregnant all I want, and than abort, no problem. This is not happening. Margaret Sanger? I shortly looked her up at wikipedia. Seems like a very brave woman to me.
            And even if we don’t procreate enough in western societies, so what? Worldwide, there will always be enough people.

            I had my first sexual experiences at age 15. But thanks to choices and birthcontrol, I had my first child at age 30. I could study and make sure my 3 kids will have a roof above their head, enough food, clothes, toys, whatever to be happy. What good would it have done to me to not have birthcontrol possibilities at age 15? Would I have waited longer with sexual experiences? For how much longer? Until after studying? I doubt it somehow. Would I be more of a “Real Woman” in your eyes if I had had my first baby at 15, 16 or 17 years? Without any chance to look after them? Live in poorness? What good would that do again to society? Oh, I just love the song In the Ghetto, from Elvis. It really says it all. It is not enough to want to stop birth control and abortion, and to make all conceived and possibly conceived babies get born (no, not “every sperm is sacred”), we, parents, society, everyone has to pay the price for them too.

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            Maragret Sanger has been dead for over 50 years, she can hardly be behind Planned Parenthood……unless she’s doing it from beyond the grave! Bwahahaha!

            Planned Parenthood has no opinion on how many children you or I have — they work hard to protect women’s health, whether you are childless or a parent. In their opinion, it is your business how many children you should have. Which is the complete opposite of your view — you have very strong opinions on white women having more children!!!

            What’s interesting is that you don’t ever talk about the number of abortions before Roe v. Wade (it wasn’t zero!).

            Nor do you talk about how countries that have banned abortion have the HIGHEST abortion rates — and almost all the abortions in those abortion-is-illegal countries are unsafe. But that’s the world you want to live in..

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            What is important is that most Feminists are pro abortion, and that Feminism did not suddenly evolve by it self. Powerful forces was behind this political movement.

            And yes, Margaret Sanger has been dead for over 50 years, and so will you – some time in the future.
            For me, the future is decided now, and well worth fighting for.

          • MaineJen

            So you don’t believe any of us are mothers? You have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Poogles

            “This blog is populated by women that had mothers.
            No more mothers, no more Femininists.”

            Riiiight…a blog that focuses on birth, infant feeding and parenting is populated by women who have no interest in children. How does that even make sense?

          • Nick Sanders

            Sense and Dagfinn aren’t on speaking terms.

          • kilda

            you, my friend, are looking for logic in all the wrong places.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you. This is an important question. I will try to adress it as I see it.

            Why are these mothers occupied of Feminism, focusing on themself and their rights, instead of focusing on their children, the family and society?

            Why are they not marching to end abortion?
            Why are they not demanding that persons that are involved with pedophilia, child trafficking and human sacrifice be taken to justice?
            Why are they not marching to stop the elite that is sending thousands of their children to wars against countries that are not a treat, to die?
            Why are they not demanding that immigration with people that may be a potential threat to their daughters, and society as a whole, be controlled?

            Had they known the truth, I am convinced they would. Instead they are led astray by powerful people and organizations that themself are involved in above activities, as part of a very sinister agenda.

          • MaineJen

            “human sacrifice” …wait, what?

            “immigration with people that may be a potential threat to their daughters” Aaaaaaaaand I’m done.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Where do you think the thousands of annual missing children end up?
            Wake up to reality. Human sacrifice is real, has been for thousands of years, and so is rape. If you deny it, you are either ignorant or in denial.

          • MaineJen

            Ritual sacrifice is not real. Human trafficking is.

            We don’t have to fear rape from immigrants…we have to fear it from entitled white guys who think we owe them something.

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            Hahahahahaha. I love trolls.

            Go away troll, back to your ritual sacrifice.

          • N

            I thought rape is a good thing, as it shows the power of The Man over the woman. Plus, he can make her babies weather she wants to or not and she is not even allowed to abort them.

          • Azuran

            Who here said rape wasn’t real? And you know what helps reducing rape? Equality.

          • fishcake

            I don’t know you, but I think you might need a vacation. Get out of the house, off the internet, and meet some new people. Do not mention TPTB. Just see what people have to say. There is a lot of good out there in the world.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you.
            You are right. I will now do some walking in the beautiful mountain areas here in Lugano, and enjoy some skiing in the days to come. Being away from internet will hopefully do me good.

            When i am gone, i hope you take some time to watch this clip, that i am sure you will find interesting:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2IfZWYPXs

          • Azuran

            Yea, wanting your daughters to have equal rights makes you a bad parent.

            They are not marching to end abortion because most feminist are actually pro-choice. Idiot. The right to control your own body is the most basic right of all.

            And of course now you go on a tirade of everything wrong with the world. Because you can’t advocate for anything unless you advocate for everything.

            And here’s the racist anti-immigration comment, of course. Newsflash buddy: Most murdered women are killed by their husband. Most murdered children are killed by one of their parent. Most sexually abused child are abused by a member of their family.
            Immigrant are the least threatening thing in my life or my daughter’s life right now.

          • Nick Sanders

            Why are they not marching to end abortion?

            Because that’s the exact opposite of a good idea?

            Why are they not demanding that persons that are involved with pedophilia, child trafficking and human sacrifice be taken to justice?

            In order: they are; the problem is not lack of responsiveness to the issue, it’s that it’s a very clandestine activity and so it’s more difficult than just hauling somebody off to jail, you have to find them first; and human sacrifice isn’t happening, so protesting it would be a total waste of time and energy.

            Why are they not marching to stop the elite that is sending thousands of their children to wars against countries that are not a threat, risking to die?

            You mean Trump and the Republicans? Who exactly do you think they are protesting?

            Why are they not demanding that immigration with people that may be a potential threat to their daughters, and society as a whole, be controlled?

            Because it already is control, excessively so.

            Seriously make up your mind, first you complain about worthless wars against people who are no threat to us, then you spout the very same xenophobia that fuels those wars and elects the people responsible for them.

          • Poogles

            “Why are these mothers occupied of Feminism, focusing on themself and their rights, instead of focusing on their children, the family and society?”

            These are not mutually exclusive things. Being “occupied” with feminism (that is, pushing for equal rights for women *and* men) helps better humankind and society in general, which in turn leads to a better life for their families and their children (if they have them).

            “Why are they not marching to end abortion?”

            Why would they march *against* the right for women to be able to control the medical decisions made regarding their own bodies?? Women having control over their own bodies is one way in which feminists are fighting for equal rights to men.

            “Why are they not demanding that persons that are involved with pedophilia, child trafficking and human sacrifice be taken to justice?”

            What makes you think they aren’t? Though, not sure what you’re referring to with “human sacrifice”.

            http://www.feminist.org/global/humantrafficking.html

            http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/09/28/youve-heard-of-rape-culture-but-have-you-heard-of-pedophile-culture/

            “Why are they not marching to stop the elite that is sending thousands of their children to wars against countries that are not a threat, risking to die?
            Why are they not demanding that immigration with people that may be a potential threat to their daughters, and society as a whole, be controlled?”

            Well, those are not specific to feminism, nor mutually exclusive. Some feminists will also march against war or overly restrictive immigration policies, some non-feminists march against war or overly restrictive immigration policies. Others will not. It’s not like a person is limited to picking a single cause to believe in and work towards, to the exclusion of all others.

            “Had they known the truth, I am convinced they would. Instead they are led astray by powerful people and organizations that themself are involved in above activities, as part of a very sinister agenda.”

            Right, because the only reason feminists don’t agree with what *you* think we should believe in, or fight for, or spend our time doing is because we’re just too dumb to realize we’ve all been duped by some mysterious “them”.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            It’s almost like most of the people on this blog *are* mothers. -eyeroll-

          • sdsures

            I don’t think you had a mother, that’s for sure.

          • MaineJen

            Or maybe…maybe…hear me out…maybe in countries where birth control is easily accessible, women are simply having the number of children they wish to have. Whether that’s 10, 2, or NONE, it’s no one’s business but theirs.

            Maybe bearing children is hard on a woman’s body. Maybe women feel like they deserve a choice.

            Feminism is not a “problem.” And a negative population growth rate in white, western countries is ONLY a problem if YOU have a problem with white people being in the minority.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You can´t have it all. At least not at the same time.
            By the way, do you really believe, that Feminism came about by it self?

          • MaineJen

            Who the #$% are you to tell me what I can and can’t have.

            Now you’ve gone and made me angry.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Being angry is not unusual these days.
            Several hundred thousand angry women will with almost certain probability be protesting in the streets in USA, as soon as the weather gets warmer.
            Most of them probably have no idea why they are there, but their well organized leaders directed and generously funded by TPTB do…

          • Did you ever stop to consider the mere possibility that women might be angry because people are doing things that deserve getting angry about? Or are women not allowed to get angry about people trying to control their lives, their jobs, and their bodies?

            If someone told you that you weren’t allowed to masturbate because that was “life” going into your sock, would you be angry? If someone told you that you weren’t allowed to work at a job you loved, because men are just too volatile to be good workers, how would you feel? What if someone told you boys are bad at language, and they shouldn’t even bother trying to write or be authors, and every time you started trying to write everyone only discouraged you by pointing out your errors and saying that shows why boys are bad at writing? Would you be angry? And what if your head of state boasted about kicking men in the nuts and laughed about how they just let her, because she was powerful? Would you feel good about it, or would you be angry?

            We’re angry because being angry is the only reasonable, rational response to the world as it is. Being angry, being passionate, is how the world changes, and right now the world needs a lot of changing. Yes, there are millions of very angry women, and we have every right to be angry. Why aren’t you angry?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            May I am not angry, because I have studied sufficient history to understand, that we are all being played by a powerful elite, and their dark agenda is playing out, right under everybody´s noses?
            May be because I am afraid the serious times that are rapidly approaching?
            May be because I am so used to being attacked by angry, frustrated people, that I got used to it?

            Or may be a combination of all all of the above.

          • You know, if you deal with people who are angry and frustrated with you on a regular basis, there is a common factor in those communications … and it’s not the other person, it’s you. Have you considered this possibility?

            Also note, I am a political scientist. I’ve studied politics, political philosophy, political economy, and some history. I think I’m significantly better off than you are when it comes to understanding the ebb and flow of history, elites, and so forth. That dark agenda you’re so scared of? It doesn’t exist. The far right is in the midst of implementing their “dark agenda” right now, but that’s not some secret conspiracy. The Koch brothers haven’t hidden their activities, Fox doesn’t even pretend to be neutral or factual, many of our president’s closest advisors are white nationalists, there are ungodly amounts of ties to Putin in Russia running through the far right parties of both the US and Europe … trust me, there’s a lot to be scared and angry about. Feminism, the idea that men and women should have equality, is not one of those things. Feminism is one of the things pushing back.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You are perfecty right about the first. Peiople being angry have one thing in common. They are 100% convinced that the problem is me.
            But that does not change the reality.

            With your background, I am sure that You are able to tell me, who was responsible for 200 million people being killed in the period 1900 – 2000 in wars, revolutions, eugenics and terrorism.

            While You are at it, you can also tell me who planned and funded WWI, The Russian Revolution, Hitler building his war machinery and WWII.

            You may also lay out the agenda of a New World Order with WW Communism being planned. Who are behind this, and how they are organized?

            I would be very surprised if you are able to provide us these important facts. The reason, according to the Reece committee of 1954, being the fact that our schools, universities and press was taken over by TPTB through their Tax-exempt foundations long time ago.

            “Since 1908, robber baron oligarchs have been using a network of private organizations to hijack foreign diplomacy, localities, and public education, under the disguise of “charitable organizations” or “foundations”. This is not a “conspiracy theory”, rather it is a fact – as determined in congressional hearings in 1953. This rare PDF file is the digitized prime record of the Dodd report to those hearings”.
            https://archive.org/details/DoddReportToTheReeceCommitteeOnFoundations-1954-RobberBaron

            The robber baron families have tried strenuously to keep this matter under wraps, but you can download and preserve your own copy here. See also the wealth of related info at the links below”.

          • Azuran

            Why am I not surprised to see this go into ‘crazy conspiracy theory’ territory.
            Also, sorry snowflake but if everyone you meet think YOU are the problem, then yes, you are the problem,

          • Yeah, it’s been fun to play with him, but I’m officially noping out of this now. He is the problem, he won’t learn, and it’s not fun anymore.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you for having been in this debate.
            May I recommend the new Disney version of “The Beauty and The Beast”?
            It is supposed to be very liberal, and may be giving you some reflections about the World we live in, that you may approve.
            Wish you the best.

          • MaineJen

            Oh FFS, are you one of these nutbags that is boycotting the new movie because it has a gay character? What a joke. News flash: Disney doesn’t need your money.

          • kilda

            nope, it’s just totally a coincidence that everyone he meets thinks he is wrong/crazy. TOTALLY a coincidence. Can’t read anything into it at all.

          • Box of Salt

            Dagfinn *started* in “crazy conspiracy theory” – in one of the earliest posts, Dagfinn proudly announced being a Creationist (capitalization Dagfinn’s).

          • MaineJen

            Nice article. Comes with these handy tags:

            “Topics politics, institutions, religion, United Nations, G. Edward Griffin, collectivism, individualism, America, antony sutton, dumbing down, interview, NWO, globalism, propaganda, meerloo, reasoning, bernays, public relations, schools, education, socialim, marxism, zionism, tax exempt, foundations, cults, carnegie, Alex Jones, rockefeller, rothschild, illuminati, NEA, government, truth movement, alex jones, infowars, social studies, curriculum, globalist, UN, armies, wars, engineering, reagan, administration, corruption, information, FED, federal reserve, banking, communist, republican, History, Domination, Terror, Submission, Eugenics, Wohlberg, lawyer, academics, journalism, banker, professional, manipulation, oligarchy, fascism, corporate fascism, politics, historical, psychological, cognitive infiltration, mighty wurlitzer, kleptocracy, movies, free, archive, footage, freemason, bush, cheney, bloodlines, marrs, deviant, psychopaths, 300, black nobility, slavery, servitude, sociological, health, medicine, NAU”

          • MaineJen

            Special bonus article: “Obama’s End Game Revealed!”

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Being a little confused, I tried to sort your list alphabetically, but my PC timed out.
            What is actually your point?

          • MaineJen

            That is the list of tag words that came attached to the article YOU linked. Some are…questionable, e.g. Mike Adams, NWO, black nobility etc.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            What do you mean questionable? Like Mike Adams, that was taken off Google with 140.000 pages – without violating their agreed contract?

            But, relax, remove your pink headdress. This time, You do not have to go unto the streets to protest. The internet community has already shown Google, that they are off track, so naturalnews.com has already been restored.

            MaineJeane, You seem engaged, but why do you seem so eager, to go off the reservation?

            http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-02-28-google-censorship-of-natural-news-statement-from-the-health-ranger.html

          • MaineJen

            LOL! Oh, you don’t have to link me to natural news. I’m familiar. Mike Adams was taken off google because he violated their terms of service with regard to advertising/sneaky page redirection. Yawn.

            I’ll keep my pussy hat, thanks. And I am incredibly engaged at the moment. Scary things are happening in my country, none of which involve the NWO, the Jews (unless you count the rash of bomb threats and Jewish cemetery vandalism), or lizard people.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Seems like you are consistent in your view and actions. Hope you are right.

            By the way, I love your pussy hats – they seem to communicate a very strong and convincing message. ,-)

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Ahem. Us Iguana People are quite concerned.

          • MaineJen

            Apologies, Empress…

          • sdsures

            What color is your pussyhat? I’ve knitted 2 so far: dark pink, and pale rose. After that will be 2 varieties of bright light pink.

          • MaineJen

            It’s hot pink 🙂 A friend of my sister’s knitted one for both of us, and we wore them in DC. It was an amazing day!

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Why not showing your real colour with a “pussybat”?
            Colour being BLACK.

          • sdsures

            What the hell is that supposed to mean?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well, as stated earlier in the debate, I believe it easily proven, that Feminism was planned and initiated by Christian Zionist Jews, who engage in occult rituals, like in “black magic”..
            http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabletmag.com%2Fjewish-arts-and-culture%2Fbooks%2F126348%2Fwhen-feminists-were-zionists%3AXo_kwF__-fkhkp6sTYFYOCFkZLE&cuid=1616248

          • MaineJen

            “She’s a witch! Burn her!”

            BTW…this is not a “debate.” There is nothing to debate.

          • Azuran

            Have you weighted a feminist to see if she weights the same as a duck?

          • MaineJen

            …It’s a fair cop.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            It could be arranged, as I have several ducks in my garden. Having them wearing “pussyhats”, while being fucked, would be a bit difficult though.

            I love your humor, even not having been successful convincing any of you, that you have been taken for a ride by The Zionists.

            I admit that.

            By the way, how do we compare weights?

          • Azuran

            Honestly, I’d rather you don’t fuck ducks, you sick bastard.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well done. Touché.

            But as Vault 7 tells us, the Zionists are still at it, while you and I fight each other. So, that way we are both being fucked.
            Seems you are enjoying it. I don´t.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Vault 8 says Vault 7 is all wrong and that it’s the Iguana people who’re at it.

          • Azuran

            Oh but we’ve already established earlier that I’m a special Atypical RH- Zionist spy sent in to lower birth rates of impure people.
            Have you considered that maybe it’s part of my mission to make you waste time here? You are the only one being fucked here my friend 😉

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I agree. I will come out of the debate looking stupid, but you will still be ignorant.

          • Azuran

            Ignorant? Dude, I’m in the middle of it all. It’s really cute how you think you’ve got us figured out. But you’ve barely even scratched the surface.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            If that is the case, I take it as proof you are ignorant of history, that proves you and your ilk, are the first one to be taken out, once the revolution is over.
            Why? Because you have proved yourself not being trustworthy.

            You go and figure out your odds: Stalin 50 mill plus, Mao 60 – 80 million…

          • Who?

            Yah boo sucks to us, hey?

            If the new rulers sound and think like you, I’ll be happy to bail out. Come to think of it, I’m too old to breed and don’t come up to much in the housework stakes, so I’m probably useless in your brave new world anyway, right?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            If you are ready to exit this life, nobody will probably try to stop you.

            This being said, I am convinced that there will be friends and family that will be missing you.
            So, why not stay a little longer and be somewhat less frustrated and angry, and give from yourself to the people around you?

            Seems like a win – win or what?

          • Azuran

            omg you are still here. That’s just really pathetic.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I will probably be around, long after you are gone.

            Reason being the difference between winners and losers, and having the good forces on my side.
            According to the Bible, repentance is the only way forward for all of us.

            So why don´t you make a positive example, by burning a “pussyhat” on CNN?
            I am sure, it would not go unnoticed, and potentially gather a lot of positive traction.

            It would probable piss off some Zionists, but who really cares….

          • Azuran

            Seeing as I am much younger than you. And that this is mainly a pregnancy/obstetric blog. I expect to still be here long after you.

            As for everything else you’re saying, again, get some mental health.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            So, you are afraid of pissing off some Zionists, by burning a “pussyhat”?

            In that case, I fear we both may end up dead, sooner rather than later, independent of our age. Not because of lack of pregnancy, but as result of yours and your sisters historical ignorance, stupidity and stubbornness.

            How are you going to fight powerful enemies, if you have no clue, they are even there?

            Stop acting like a spoiled brat, Get real, do some research, and find something fighting for, that is real.

          • Azuran

            Oh my level of fear of the zionist is nonexistant. I just don’t believe in any of the crazy conspiracy theory crap you’ve been talking about.

            You really have a huge obsession about those hats. Really, your beliefs just go everywhere and are just so contradictory.
            Again, get some help. you are clearly not in a happy place.

          • MaineJen

            I think he’s bothered by the word “pussy.”

          • MaineJen

            “Spoiled brat,” he says from deep inside his mansion, while the rest of us work.

            You are the problem. You.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            No, “spoiled brats” originate deep inside my educated and experienced brain, where you, claiming to be younger than I, have some catching up to do.

            In the meantime, why don´t you go and burn a “pussyhat”, to gain some respect?

            Or, may be reading a book?
            If so, I recommend “The bad war”, having been banned from Amazon, just a few days ago…

          • Azuran

            What, you get insulted by the fact that I’m younger? It’s just a fact. Me being younger doesn’t make me a spoiled brat, it just makes me younger.

            And really, why would I waste a huge amount of money to travel to the USA to find and burn a pussyhat on CNN? Traction for what?

            And please, I’m a women, you’ve never had any respect for me, that much is clear. Not that I give a damn about getting respect from someone like you.

          • Who?

            Oh your ‘educated brain’ is the cause for all this ranting.

            Well that explains a lot.

            My experienced and educated brain tells me you are a sad old man with relevance deprivation disorder, and you don’t like it.

            Why is your educated and experienced opinion better than mine?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Your “experienced and educated brain”, seems not being your friend.
            If you had a working brain, it would be soft on me, and harder on the facts.

            But on the former, I have to agree, you may have a point, after having Googled “relevance deprivation disorder”…

          • Azuran

            Haha ‘facts’
            I don’t think that word means what you think it means

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I think, you claiming: “I don´t think” gives me a rather good clue of the problem we are facing in the debate.

            Why don´t you take my input seriously, and do some research into Zionism/Feminism, and come back stronger, based on facts?

            May be this may be a good startingpoint, for defending the expression that Feminists have been “minedfucked”?

            https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HlPh3LSSdSE/hqdefault.jpg

          • Azuran

            ‘I don’t think it means what you think it means’ is a meme dude. Ever watched the princess bride?
            Why don’t I take your input seriously? Because your input are nothing more than crazy ramblings of other consipracy theory lunatics. You haven’t provided any actual fact. And everything you are going on about is just totally ridiculous.

            So…..what’s the problem with this picture? The sign is about helping refugees. That’s not about feminism. Is it because the person holding the sign in a woman? If a man was holding it, would you still claim he’s a brainfucked feminist? Anything a woman does is because she’s a brainfucked feminist in your mind?

          • Who?

            Well this young woman probably has zero power and zero opportunity to do anything to bring her placard to life, so how about you just park your impertinent assumptions about her motives?

            If what you don’t like is seeing things you don’t agree with, turn off the internet and your problem will be solved.

            Or go back to Breitbart, your natural home.

          • Who?

            What part of your hatefilled rants against whole non-homogeneous groups of people you don’t approve of should I be softer on?

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Don’t worry, Who, you’re on my list of friends to save when my conquest of your cute little planet is complete

          • kilda

            clearly we are dealing with some level of delusion and mental illness here. I think we should respond to Dagfinn much the way we would if we saw a mentally ill person standing on the sidewalk ranting to himself about the zionists and the rh- plot.

            we wouldn’t try to engage that person in a rational discussion of feminism. We would just be sad for the state of his mental health and leave him alone.

            continuing to try to engage with him is just sort of like poking at an unfortunate mentally ill person. Not nice, and not accomplishing anything.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well, is this not what you have been doing all along? Nothing new here.

            Feminists digging each other, is nothing new.
            Zionists on the sideline, laughing about your ignorance, is also nothing new.

            Why don´t you stop attacking me, and start attacking the problem?
            You seem completely lost.

            Yesterday, some dude on the Internet introduced a new way of describing Feminists. He claimed: “Their have been brain-raped”. I tried to tell him he is rude and wrong. Today, I think he might be worth listening to.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            He probably doesn’t catch the Monty Python reference.

          • MaineJen

            Um……..what

          • Azuran

            …………………………………………………………..how do you compare weights????? seriously?
            Seems to me whoever thought you first grade math was even worst at it than whoever thought you English.

          • No, no it was not proven. You asserted it and we laughed at your idiocy. That’s not at all the same thing.

          • sdsures

            Shut up, you hateful anti-Semitic fuckwad. This is not a debate. This is you advocating genocide.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I am not anti-Semitic, but rather anti-Femitic.

            By the way, I have deep respect for Jews, the real ones, that live by their Torah.
            Jews living by Scofield Bible, Cabala or Talmud, with an agenda for a “Greater Israel”, NWO or World-wide Communism, I want to draw attention to – especially their sickening occult rituals.

            And by the way, the latter ones are the ones advocating genocide. I am not.

            So, repeat after me: “Once upon the time, I was wrong Twice” – and you will hopefully be forgiven by God above.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            You’re blinder than you tell us we are.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Having been diagnosed with “Dry Macular degeneration”, my critical thinking skills are still intact. So I dare ask this important question:

            Why are Feminists so angry, aggressive and rude, if they have not been laid astray?

            Why do they seem to focusing so much harder on themselves, rather than huge common problems, where Zionists and The World Elites play such significant part?

            Why do they accept that between 55 and 60 million babies have been aborted in USA, since it became legal?
            Why do they not react to the fact that Planned Parenthood are mostly established in black neighbourhoods?
            Why do they not march to demand that claims that Planned Parenthood, according to whistleblowers, are selling bodyparts be investigated?
            I am sure you would find a lot of men that would be happy join you.

            Are Feminists pro war? Do they care about innocent women and children dying in Middle East, their sisters being raped in Europe and Scandinavia, or their own kids coming back from wars in bodybags?

            No, all Feminists seem to care about, is themselves and “their case”.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Planned parenthood is mostly in poor areas because poor people are the least likely to be able to afford regular insurance and therefore the most likely to need services like Planned Parenthood. They do “sell” the embryos and fetuses for research but only at cost, not for profit.

            I don’t give a shit how many babies have been aborted over the last 50 years. Still safer for than a back alley abortion with a damned coat hanger in the “good old days.”

            Women get raped everywhere, you ass. Men who don’t believe in women’s equality don’t bother to ask, they just overpower us.

            How much have you donated to relief organizations? I haven’t donated much, because I don’t have much to spare, but I help in a local church’s garden for their soup kitchen.

            Your “Zionists’ did it” nonsense is total BS

            My hats are baseball caps and a nice alpaca stocking cap I made for myself years ago. What is your hang-up on those silly hats?

            I’m rude to you because you’re a jerk.

          • MaineJen

            We’re angry because of men like you. You’re the reason we’re angry. You’ve spent 2 weeks now trying to mansplain feminism to us, giving as “proof” a bunch of batshit crazy conspiracy pages and youtube videos. You’ve proven yourself a misogynist antisemitic racist, completely uneducated in any real science. You should have slunk away, embarrassed, by this time…and yet you keep coming back, spouting the same nonsense over and over, as if you can convince us by repetition.

            We are tired of your bullshit. Please slink back into your lakeside mansion and leave us alone.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            So how many million innocents are going to die, while you are savagely chasing me off your sacret Forum?

            And how many will be aborted, or killed, in unnecessary wars?

            You claim to be intelligent, but you are acting stupid, and seem not having a clue, that this is factually the truth.

          • MaineJen

            You really think you’re saving so many lives here?

            Do you know how many of us are health care workers?

          • Azuran

            How many millions innocents are going to die while YOU are annoying us here? Shouldn’t you be off somewhere actually fighting the zionist? We’ve made it perfectly clear that we don’t believe you and nothing you can say will make us change our mind. So you might as well move on, because you sure aren’t helping your imaginary cause either by being here.

          • I’m gonna tell him.

            All Jews live by the Talmud. That’s the great books of lore surrounding the Torah that interpret and interpolate it. There is not a single Jew alive who lives by Torah alone. So yeah, you’re advocating genocide, because Jews aren’t little action figures in your head but actual real people with real lives and a real religion that doesn’t work the way you think it does.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you for finally being honest. I now rest my case.

          • I’ve always been honest with you, asshole. You’re just crazy and don’t know how to pick out honesty when you see it.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Needing some time to accepting being an asshole, I beg you to go soft on me for a while…

          • Nick Sanders

            Do you even know what the Talmud is?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Isn’t that a mosque in Mecca?

          • Nick Sanders

            No, it’s a written record of Jewish oral legal history. One of the most important documents in Rabbinic Judaism (as in the kind of Judaism everyone thinks of when they hear the word “Judaism”) and nutbar here thinks it’s some sort of fringe cult work.

          • Dr Kitty

            “Sickening occult rituals” is blood libel.
            Dagfinn is an anti-Semite, who attempts to use the one true Scotsman fallacy to excuse his bigotry.

            “I don’t hate *real* Jews, just the Talmudic/Kabbalistic Zionist Jews, and *I’m* the one who gets to define who is who, and if you disagree with me you’re probably in thrall to TPTB and NWO and maybe even a feminist”.

            He’s insane in the membrane.
            I wouldn’t bother.

          • Nick Sanders

            I’m well aware, and I stopped bothering with Dagfinn days ago. I was just stating what the Talmud was for Bofa’s sake.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Um, no. I’m not stupI’d, like Dagfinn

          • Nick Sanders

            I never meant to imply that you were, but you asked if it was a mosque in Mecca, so I was just trying to be helpful…

          • AnnaPDE

            I’m pretty sure Bofa was being sarcastic there.

          • No, no he does not. Why is he still here?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Why believe me? Go to the book and get the answer yourself:
            http://rense.com/general86/talmd.htm

            Libbre David 37
            A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.

            Sanhedrin 58b
            [In other words, if a non-Jew kills a Jew, the non-Jew can be killed. Punching an Israelite is akin to assaulting God. (But killing a non-Jew is NOT like assaulting God.]
            If a goy killed a goy or a Jew he is responsible, but if a Jew killed a goy he is not responsible.

            Yalkut 245c
            Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice.

          • Nick Sanders

            Rense is a dumbass nutjob who believe Protocols is legit. Piss off.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Rense may be a nutjob, and I have no proof of who was behind The Protocols, even I find them interesting reading, as the Protocols themselves are quite real, and not going away.

            But you rather check, whether the excerpts from Talmud above are real or not, before shooting off your mouth.

            May be you are able to come back and tell us, that OK, they are real, but have an alternative meaning. That would be fun. Especially this sentence: “Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice”.

          • Nick Sanders

            What part of “piss off” confused you?

          • MaineJen

            OMG. I just made the mistake of googling “the protocols.” DK has got to go. Seriously. This is just sick.

          • Nick Sanders

            It’s Saturday Morning Cartoon Supervillain™ dialogue, I seriously do not understand how it fools people. Apart from bigots engaging in willful ignorance, I mean.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well Nick, why do you attend, if you think today is Saturday?
            The week-end is not far away though, so why not holding your breath, and return next week, to making yourself a potential hero?
            But, that being said, I don´t think “The Protocols” will be gone by then, so why not prepare some intelligent input to potential newcomers, that may be curious of what these “Protocols” are, to scare them away?
            Wouldn´t that be a meaningful challenge, you think?

            But taking on this task, I hope you do not forget my original claim, that Feminism was invented by Zionists.

          • MaineJen

            Get help.

          • Nick Sanders

            Last warning. I’m not interested in listening to your crazy inability to comprehend language, so fuck off or I block you.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you Nick. I have always responded to threats by counterattacks. In this case, I think it may be a waste of time and energy and therefore rest my case.

            But, diverting from The Protocols, did you know that there is a conspiracy theory, that Shakespeare did not write his books himself, but Sir Francis Bacon did, in Shakespeare´s name?

            Guess reading Macbeth should be avoided, until irrefutable truth has been established who wrote it..

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/41f0c5f677d8550105027b9c2090a6b218b403aac6fce46fe7d92f0654d4c95b.png

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Jews living by Scofield Bible, Cabala and Talmud, with an agenda for a “Greater Israel”, NWO or World-wide Communism, I want to draw attention to – especially their sickening occult rituals.

            “The protocols” is, (not are), just the icing on the cake.

            And yes, you are right, it is sick. Christian Zionism (an expression in itself an oxymoron), seems to be promoting a Satanistic Cult, through a combination of media propaganda, and Jewish Rabbies leading their flocks astray.

          • MaineJen

            Yeah um…the rest of the world knows that the publication you’re referring to was proven a forgery back in 1921. It was a flat-out fabrication and it was used to justify the Russian pogroms in the early 1900s.

            Let me be clear: you are sick. YOU.

            Get help.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you for being involved. Suggest you do another Google search:
            “Jesuits Zionism Masons”

            With a Pope, that is Jesuit, and a US President that probably is a Freemason, and being surrounded by Zionists, and USA going wild with planned demonstrations, where Feminists will be playing an important part, I am sure you will find it worthwhile.

            And about “anti-Semitism”, I am sharing Voltaire´s way of looking at the World we live in.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/83e304e5b33d5e6a6faf37475f8f17699904d0e1dedbfcdcafc4dd57d817dac9.jpg

          • MaineJen

            Get help.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you, but It is probably too late. I am too far gone. ,-)

          • Dude, you can criticize Jews all day long. You just shouldn’t (not can’t- no one is going to throw you in jail for being an asshat) say untrue things about anyone. For example, you shouldn’t say that someone is untrustworthy, evil, or authoritarian because of their religious or ethnic background because 1) it is untrue, 2) it leads to unfounded animus against that group of people, and 3) it leads you into a rabbit hole of scary conspiracy theories that short-circuit logical thought and make you vote against your best interests because of your brainwashed fears.

            You are also aware that there are people who are still alive who survived the last rabid bout of anti-Semitism, right? That when you spout lies about Jews, you’re laying the ground for it to happen again, and it’s only been 70 fucking years? Why are you so proud and happy of doing the work of genocidaires? Oh no, you would never pick up that machete … but you would be the voice on the radio encouraging those who did. You would be just as guilty, and you would revel in it. You sicken me.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I am not critic to Jews. I am trying to share light on Masons, Jesuits and Zionists, who don´t care whether Jews, or whoever, dies in millions, as long as they reach their common goals, like they did during WWI, The Russian Revolution, WWII and whatever war you may remember. Together 200 millions during the period of 1900 – 2000.

            So, I have committed my time to try spreading the truth, in between “fake news”, propaganda and historical falsifications. By defending “The Jews”, and attacking me, you are surely opposing your own best interest.

            If you think any of my claims, so far, has been untrue, why do you not attack the facts/claims instead of the messenger?

            I think, I know the answer. Doing so, is incredibly difficult, and involves years of research, of which very few have the skills, education and time to do. So attacking the messenger is easier. Especially, as being part of some “flock”, today, is considered much more important, than being right.

          • Every single source you’ve linked, every single document you’ve referenced, has been anti-Semitic in the extreme. What do you think all those not-so-coded references to the Protocols and Zionists are, if not attacks on “the Jews”, which by the way you should not put in quotes or say ‘the’ before, because Jews are people, not an homogenous mass.

            I’m attacking the messenger because you are anti-Semitic. I’ve also told you over and over again that your message is false, inflammatory, and hateful. I didn’t start attacking you until you shrugged that off- at that point, you’re also tainted by your message because you refuse to open your eyes to the hatefulness of that message.

            I will also note that as a university-trained political scientist, I most definitely have the skills to do research. And all my research indicates that your sources are wrong, animated by hatred, and deliberately twisting things.

            I will also note that you are attacking me. Every time you say “the Jews” do this, you are attacking me. Every time you claim there is a conspiracy to destroy the world, you are accusing me of wanting to destroy the world. So no, you get no moral high ground here. You started with the ad hominem attacks- I merely attacked your character after you proved it was bad.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Sources do no wrong. People and their actions (or lack of such) do.

            Google “The Reece committee” of 1954, and you will find that the press and most universities were taken over 100 years ago, by tax exempt foundations, most of them controlled by Zionists.

            Seems you are following in the tracks of your german and jewish ancestors, that were stabbed in their back by US Zionists and suffered badly from the result.

            This year is 100 years anniversary of “The Balfour declaration”. Seems like you learned very little of real significance, during your studies.

            Suggest you apply for return of your “educational investment”. But, If you do, be aware, that you will probably be wasting your time, as you will be fighting Zionist controlled organizations.

          • Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit, followed by anti-Semitic lies. Yeah, we’re done here.

            The Balfour agreement, for your information, was a British document promising Jews a homeland in Palestine, on land that had already been promised to Palestinians in a different agreement. The British fucked everyone over, but then again, that’s what British imperialists did. The US had nothing to do with it, and it was 100 years ago and has absolutely no relevance whatsoever anymore except as a historical document. What’s your point?

          • Oh for fuck’s sake, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a known forgery and anti-Semitic piece of bullshit. If you can’t even manage to acquire that much reality in your brain, why do you think anyone would listen to you on anything else?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I admit “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” may be forgery and anti-Semitic piece of bullshit.

            That being said, they are absolutely worth reading.

          • No, they are not worth reading. And there is no “may” be a forgery, they just are a forgery. It’s not worth reading things that are absolutely false and inflammatory about people, and the fact that you think they are worth reading says that you are absolutely anti-Semitic, though we already knew that.

          • Most of the Talmud predates Christianity, so no. Also, just no. Why don’t you go to http://www.sefaria.org/texts/Talmud to actually read it for yourself, instead of relying on anti-Semitic lying liars who lie?

          • Who?

            Forgiven? By whatever made up sky friend you pray to?

            No thanks.

          • Who?

            Did you fall and hit your head?

          • MaineJen

            I think he means that you must be a part of the “dark agenda” or whatever. IDK. I still contend that he is a fascinating specimen.

          • sdsures

            Or she’s a racist shitbag.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            I’m making my pastor a brain hat mostly in pink, because that’s what I have left over from a pair of Demodocus’ mittens. (For a pastor, she’s very into science, and thinks one should NOT take the Bible literally)

          • sdsures

            The brain hat looks really neat, but also very challenging! The closet-almost-medical-student-but-I’m-too-chicken in me wonders whether the brain hat should be a greyish pink.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Nah, it’s super easy. Just a metaphorical mile of I-cord (in chunks of varying lengths then sew in loops and curls onto a hat.

          • Azuran

            Oh god, Natural news. At this point you are literally digging a hole in the ground to lower the bar.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank You, I hate digging, especially deep holes. But, seriously, what is wrong with his site?
            Google took him off the internet, just to move him back. I am confused.

          • Azuran

            ‘Thank You, I hate digging, especially deep holes.’ ………What? seriously……what does that even mean?
            What’s wrong with natural news? Hahahahahahaha! It’s basically the biggest collection of fake shit on the internet. It’s an insult to human intelligence.
            Google took them off because they weren’t respecting their term of usage by redirecting users who clicked on their link using mobile phone. If they put them back on, then it must be because they stop doing it. But that has nothing to do with their absolute lack of credibility.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Why then, is Google allowing them back?

          • Azuran

            I told you. Probably because they fixed the issue.

          • Cody

            But didn’t you read what he wrote? It’s “rare”, lol.

          • Ohhh, you’re just wrong about everything and think that there is some vast conspiracy behind everything. You’re one teensy step away from “the Jews did it”, because I’ve read that song and dance before and it’s always the Jews.

            Newsflash: it’s not the Jews. There’s no vast overarching super-secret conspiracy at all. You’re just wrong. Bye bye now!

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Very well put, and very relevant discussing TPTB.

            The Jews in general are not to blame. But there is a group of Jews, that definitely have a lot to be responsible for.
            I am referring to Christian Zionists, that believe in Cabala and The Talmud.
            Have you researched their history and religious beliefs?
            Have you read the Congressional report named “Reece Committee”? Have you read Antony Sutton? Carroll Quigley?

            I have.

            It seems that general Jews and Feminist share the same destiny, which is being lead astray by the same PTB.

          • Oh yes, the Jews (who are a very diverse group of people only generally sort of linked by culture, ethnicity, and/or religion) and feminists (who come in all sorts of cultural and religious configurations and genders) are totally misled and don’t actually want equality for people. Mmmhmm. Well, you’ve convinced me. Some totally amorphous group of Evil Bastards (TM) has managed to completely take over two very disparate groups of people, who are only coincidentally two of the most hated groups of Real White Christian Men (TM), in order to destroy civilization as we know it in spite of the fact that both women and religious minorities are hurt worst when civilizations collapse. That makes total sense.

            Said no one ever … and no, I don’t need to read anti-Semitic canards to know they’re not true. I have more respect for my own sanity than that.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            No reply – nothing – nada – nichts – niets…
            Who would believe that, regarding a existencial question?

          • MaineJen

            No…I haven’t watched nearly enough X-Files to take on that wall of text.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Neither have I.

          • N

            But I have, and he doesn’t talk about X-Files. No mention of Area 51. No phrase like: the truth is out there.
            Instead he keeps talking about TPTB – The Powers That Be – without explaining. So I must think he knows his “Angel”series, Angel, ex-lover of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, cursed by (probably illegally immigrated from Romania ;-)) gypsies to have a soul, Champion of The Powers That Be. Fought against “The Master”. Fought against “Wolfram & Hart”, rich very powerful mostly white lawyers who wanted to rule the world and even used dark magic and sacrifices to do so…. M’kay?

          • Nick Sanders

            What’s scary is the number of people who believe Fox is honest and centrist despite the very blatant evidence to the contrary.

          • sdsures

            The fact that you used the phrase “dark agenda” really needs no editorial comment.

          • MaineJen

            We know why we’re there.

            Do you?

          • Dr Kitty

            Dagfinn-

            I am highly intellligent and a very good doctor.
            My skills would be wasted staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising babies.
            I would be miserable.

            As it is, I get to save lives, have a fulfilling career, a wonderful marriage built on mutual respect AND parent two amazing, wanted and planned children.

            Your vision for how I should live my life offers me nothing.
            No intellectual stimulation, no personal fulfilment, no financial reward it offers me literally no incentive to change my lifestyle and beliefs.

            Telling me I *ought* to be happy and fulfilled as a SAHM , and should be grateful being supported financially by husband because I’m a woman doesn’t actually make any of those things true.

            Unless and until you and your ilk can actually offer an attractive alternative to the feminism you decry, you won’t get many takers from women like me.

            I mean, if I told you that you’d be better off at home, raising kids, cooking and cleaning and being subordinate to your wife because she’s the breadwinner, you’d rightly tell me to take a hike.

            But you presume women would feel differently if you make the same proposition to them, simply because you justify it with historical precedent and a thin veneer of religion and fail to see how ridiculous it appears.

            I don’t care how feminism “came about”, only that its insistence on treating me as an intelligent human being of equal value to a man and with a right to self determination and bodily autonomy is much preferable to any alternative.

            You’re asking the turkeys to vote for Christmas.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you for sparing your time.

            I decided to get out of The Forum, reason being, my input had very little, or no, traction.

            There is nothing more important, than being able to fulfill all the ambitions you lay out above. To that I agree 100%. I am sure many of your patients would too.

            Problem being, our society is under attack. What we have experienced, and have gotten used to, may abruptly change, without us being able to do anything about it.

            Why my “out of order claims”?

            Reason being, I have a hope that somebody, in this intellectually populated Forum, is being intellectually capable of stopping being frustrated, and starting to do their own research, in order to search the truth.

            I want you to know, that myself, I have serious problems, loosing friends and frustrating my children, trying to tell them this truth.

          • Dr Kitty

            Mate, I have an IQ of over 140.
            Why should *I* as a very intelligent person, give up my personal intellectual fulfilment, my ability to earn money, and any fucking sense of autonomy?

            I don’t want to spend my days changing nappies any more than you do.

            Why should I?

            Your argument is that I am female, therefore I should suck it up, change nappies, make bottles and be content with my lot.

            My argument is that I am too smart, too educated and too sensible to take that shit.

            I don’t fucking care whether you think the world needs more SAHM. I’m not going to be one. Deal with it.

          • Azuran

            Maybe you should rethink this ‘truth’ of yours. You are alienating your children because of something that isn’t even true.
            We are not under attack. If anything, what is under attack right now is the rights of women and the rights of minorities.

          • Box of Salt

            Dagfinn Klausen “I want you to know, that myself, I have serious problems, loosing
            friends and frustrating my children, trying to tell them this truth.”

            Good. This should be telling you something: what you think is “this truth” is not, in fact, true.

            It is you who needs to change – not the rest of us.

          • Who?

            ‘Our society’ is not under attack. With so many people wanting something different, you might benefit from examining your own assumptions about what is good, and not so good, about the way you think things ought to be.

            For the last 50 years or so women have fought to be educated and acknowledged for their work. People wanted enough to eat, and a decent education, and a future for their children, and a better life. What’s wrong with that?

            And now, times are changing again. A lot of people want women back in their place, and immigrants back in their place, and people who worship a different god back in their place, and so the list goes on. You are an apologist for those people.

            You know what you’ve got, and deep down you know you did nothing to deserve it.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            Too few children for what?!? There are 7.5 billion people on the Earth and about 300,000 births each day (about 150,000 deaths per day). Western industrialized nations burn more fossil fuel, dump more carbon into the atmosphere and use more water, per person, than other nations. The very LAST thing they need to do is also have more kids. Given a choice and the opportunity, women choose to control their own fertility and have as many or few children as they want, or no children if that’s what they want.

          • N

            Upvoted.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            Thank you, I’ve been really shouty online and in person lately but the current political situation and the steady erosion on abortion rights and access among other things has really been making me anxious lately… And every time I hear someone moan about “declining birthrates” I think “Well maybe you should stop demonizing immigrants huh?” My daughter used to want kids but she has started to lean toward maybe not and I don’t blame her.

          • N

            Yes, he keeps talking about declining birth rates. After WWII we didn’t have enough people left around here to do all the work. In other regions in the world, there were more people around than work to do. => Immigration. That is how my grandparents came here. But if you build walls around your country, well, …

          • Cody

            He meant we’re having too few children to keep the white race strong.

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            Breeding is what you do with dogs and cattle.

            Using that word betrays your view that women are yours to control, the way you would control your farm breeding stock.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Never thought about that. Thank you, you are absolutely right. But, having said that, what do you regard being the political correct words to describe the sad fact, that the population will soon be in decline?

          • It’s not sad. The world is currently overpopulated, and the human population is increasing. If women can control their own fertility and have how many kids they want, and if that is less than replacement value, this isn’t a problem by any stretch of the imagination.

            There are no politically correct words for saying that you’re sad that the “wrong” people are having babies and the “right” people are not, because that’s an inherently repugnant idea.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            What you are calling “politcal correct” is what others might refer to as courtesy and decency to others.

            But hey, if you don’t want to be that way….

          • Azuran

            Bodily autonomy and personal choice.

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            No population can expand indefinitely. If you think so, you have got a hard lesson coming.

            Ergo, human populations must decline at some point. That does not mean will must become extinct.

            The ONLY question is — WHY does it decline? Is it because we have chosen to have fewer children and chosen a better future for us all — or is it because of war, famine, pestilence, a tragedy for all?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            So what if the population is in decline? Why should I care?

            I mean, it is because people are needlessly dying, it’s one thing. I don’t want people to die. However, if it’s just because the population growth drops off? So what?

            Why should I care if humans go extinct? It won’t affect me, my kids, my grand-kids or my great[sup]n[/sup]-grandkids, where n is a large number. Yeah, at some point, it will affect some descendants, but it will be so far down the line that I can’t be bothered.

            I’ll be long dead. What happens to the “human race” after that, I really don’t care.

          • Azuran

            When you go through a pregnancy and a birth yourself, then maybe we’d care about how many babies you think a women should have.

          • MaineJen

            I’m really having trouble seeing your logic here. You’re arguing that a philosophy is worth nothing if its adherents can’t/don’t want to have children, whom they will raise in that philosophy?

            That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of this works.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            What does it matter, if you win all your rights, if in two generations your movement will end up being extinct, and what is left of Feminists will end up having no rights whatsoever?

            Suggest you ask the leaders of your feminist movement this simple question and demand an honest answer.

          • Azuran

            So again, you think we should just accept to be inferior in order to keep being inferior?
            Seriously, I’d much rather be equal, have my daughter be equal, her daughter be equal and then maybe eventually have my lineage die out than having it live on for 10 000 in a reality where my female descendents are considered lesser being.

          • Poogles

            “What does it matter, if you win all your rights, if in two generations your movement will end up being extinct”
            Except there is absolutely no reason to believe that the movement to push for equality between the sexes (feminism) will “go extinct” (unless we actually achieve equality – don’t see that happening real soon, based on what’s going on in the world currently). You seem to have this belief that Feminists only come into existence by being born of and raised by other Feminists – which is a ridiculously false notion. For example, I am a Feminist and my husband is a Feminist, yet none of our parents were.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Seems like your parents did the right thing.
            Now you and your husband have to decide what you are going to do.
            Are you going to prioritize children, family and society, or are you going to fight for you “rights”, knowing that if you succeed, we are going to have less children and more abortions?
            Are you and your husband going to be running wild on the streets, fighting for some rights, or burning your anger?
            Is what what you are planning for?

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            In my feminist world, there are far fewer abortions, far happier couples, and far more wanted children, because feminists insist on quality sex education and health care, with includes contraception, and more equal power and division of labor between the sexes. Look around the world — places with more equality are like that.
            In your world, people are driven by fear and hate and shame of sex. Which equals more abortions, more unwanted children, unhappier couples.
            Childbirth is always more dangerous to a woman than an abortion — but your goal is to punish women for having sex, so you don’t care.
            I love forced-birthers. If the government turned around and *forced* you to, say, have a piece of your liver donated to your sick child (which you did not consent to), you would quickly understand how when you can’t control your own body, you have no freedom. After all, you have to do *anything* to save the life of your child — even if it could lead to disability or death for you! Even if you have other children who would be harmed by your disability or death..

          • Poogles

            “Are you going to prioritize children, family and society, or are you going to fight for you “rights””

            Not mutually exclusive. We may or may not decide to eventually have children, but fighting for equal rights in no way means we can’t also prioritize our family – and since fighting for equal rights *betters* society, we are prioritizing society BY fighting for equal rights.

            “knowing that if you succeed, we are going to have less children and more abortions?”

            Actually, if feminists succeeded, we’d have *less* abortions because women would have better access to contraception and sex education and more control over the decision of whether or when to become pregnant. We may end up with less children, overall, but this isn’t a bad thing – humans are not in any danger of going extinct and most people do eventually want to have children. Don’t you think it would be ideal that children are only born into families that want them and can actually care for them?

            “Are you and your husband going to be running wild on the streets, fighting for some rights, or burning your anger?”
            We may or may not participate in marches or demonstrations in the future. I don’t see that as “running wild”, but as an important part of trying to make changes to society. Keeping quiet with your head down when you believe things need to change isn’t really a good thing.

          • StephanieJR

            ‘Well behaved women seldom make history’

            I forget who said it, but I do like that quote.

          • MaineJen

            I don’t know if you realize how insulting it is to presume to “advise” a grown-ass woman about her life choices. I’m 100% sure she has her choices well in hand, and has no need for advice.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Are you going to prioritize children, family and society, or are you going to fight for you “rights”,

            By fighting for equal rights for others, including women, I AM prioritizing children, family and society.

            We all, including my children and family, suffer when others are discriminated against for who they are.

          • Nick Sanders

            How does the saying go? “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” or something like that?

          • sdsures

            Yep, MLK Jr.

          • Azuran

            But she ended up a feminist, so, following your logic, seems to me like her parents failed miserably at parenting her.

            And yes, I 100% support every women having however many child she wants to have and have access to abortion. I see nothing wrong with that.

          • Azuran

            So….fertile people don’t have rights?
            And what responsibility? You think what, that I have an obligation to reproduce? Get your head out of your ass.

      • LibrarianSarah

        Kind of hard to go harder on the facts when you haven’t presented any.

    • MaineJen

      He thinks we’re not breeding enough to sustain ourselves. Like “feminists” are some distinct species or something. It would be amusing if it wasn’t so…eugenics-ish

      • Dagfinn Klausen

        I do not “think” this. It is a fact. Time now, is for you Feminists to stop reacting, realizing you are on the wrong track, and start acting.

        • Amy Tuteur, MD

          Dagfinn is a frequent commentor on Breitbart. ‘Nuff said.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            This is a lie. I am pretty certain this is the first time I have been debating on Breitbart.

            Tell “Nuff” to apologize, or risk loosing credibility.

          • Poogles

            Dr. Amy: “Dagfinn is a frequent commentor on Breitbart.”
            Dagfinn: “This is a lie. I am pretty certain this is the first time I have been debating on Breitbart”

            Well, Dagfinn, you would be wrong. In the last 2 weeks you have commented on at least 7 different articles/posts on Breitbart.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You are quite right. My reply was originally including a link to the first debate, that was earlier this Year.
            I would hardly think this qualifies to the description “frequently” though.

          • Azuran

            I don’t think you need to worry about Nuff’s credibility. But don’t expect an apology from Nuff either, he’s not really the ‘apologizing’ type.

          • sdsures

            I can’t believe I missed all the fun! Reading quickly to catch up.

      • Empress of the Iguana People

        Because philosophy is only spread by having children. *eyeroll*

  • Dagfinn Klausen

    Assuming most Feminists believe in Darwin, it is not about power or rights, but passing on the superior female genes to the next generation.
    As Feminists have shown being unable to sustain necessary birthrates – in a few generations, they will become a minority, left for the scientists of that time, to decide what went wrong.

    • Azuran

      Believing in the theory of evolution doesn’t mean reproduction is the meaning of life.

      • Dagfinn Klausen

        Being a Creationist, I do not believe in evolution.
        That being said, I belieive that the most sexy female dog prefers to breed with the toughest male.
        Beyond that, I have found no proof, that Man came out of a pit, and evolved to where we are today.
        If You are able to prove othervice, I am definitely open for input.

        • MaineJen

          …you think female dogs are sexy?

          • StephanieJR

            I am late to the party and so confused. Is this dude even on the same planet as us?

          • Dagfinn Klausen
          • StephanieJR

            I have the opinion that I get a more stimulating and rigorous debate with my bunny rabbit over whether she really needs an extra treat in the afternoon. I have the opinion that, as a woman whom is never going to have children- for many reasons, none of which is any of your damn business, but which can mostly be summed up by ‘I don’t want to’-, as a woman whom certainly benefits from my feminist predecessors and plans to try my best to make them proud and continue their work, as a woman raised by some very strong women, as a woman that will be an aunt some day that plans on passing on my knowledge to my future nieces AND nephews, I have the opinion that you, sir, are a horse’s ass.

            You seem to think that women cannot be mothers and feminists, that it’s either/or. That our population- or, at least the only population you think should exist- is in decline. That women that don’t reproduce don’t deserve rights. That the mind boggling, pearl clutching, impudent notion that, oh lord, men and women are equal, and that we should do our best to make it so, is wrong and going to lead to the downfall of humanity, or some stupid bullshit like that.

            I wish I could say that I’m surprised people like you still exist. That misogynist, Christian (which is an insult to most Christians), xenophobic, bigoted, intolerant, conspiracy theory spouting idiots are still around and sitting around, chattering their most dangerous ideals to each other in a wretched, twisted echo chamber.

            I’m not surprised. I’m not even angry. It’s nice to know there are people in the world like you, that will always call me less than nothing because of my gender, my sexuality, my choices. That will hate me because I dare to be different. I dare to be feminist, to be childfree. It’s nice, because you serve as a reminder. That things must change for the better. That since you can’t be argued out of existence, your beliefs will be. That when my nieces and nephews are growing up, I must make the world better for them.

            This is longer than I thought, especially since I’ve got things to do. I have a long list of insults to sign off with, but that would probably be immature, so I’ll just finish by telling you one thing:

            Go make me a sandwich.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I wish I could be a little bit less harsh, but truth is hard to handle.
            What I seriously regret though, is having been unable to communicate more effectively.
            My enemy is TPTB, not the Feminists.
            This being said, how is it possible for Feminists not to understand and accept the reality they live in?

            I seriously wish more Feminist would watch on YouTube “The century of self”, the BBC documentary, where Freuds neveu Edward Bernays, on behalf of TPTB, tricked US women into starting smoking.
            Why would they choose to do such a stupid thing, if they were not tricked into it?

            Feminism is just more of the same.
            Abortion also. Why would somebody choose to kill their offspring in such staggering numbers, if they were not tricked into doing so?

            This summer, you will see hundred of thousands of Feminists in the streets. Most animals do not shit in their own nest, but this summer humans will be proving to The whole world, that they do not care about ruining their own society.
            These demonstrations are already planned, organized and funded by TPTB.

          • N

            You keep using that abreviation. Who are TPTB? “THEM”?
            What reality do feminists not get?
            And how am I tricked into choosing what kind of life I want to live?
            I would rather say, if I get married when my parents decide to, and have the number of babies my husband decides to, and have to stay home to raise those children, because my husband wants to, because KKK (not the american one, but the german one: Kirche Kinder Küche), I have been tricked.

          • What reality? The reality in which women have made huge strides towards equality, but aren’t there yet, and people like you keep trying to hobble us as we try to reach that finish line? That’s a real reality.

            The reality is that women choose to get abortions for a lot of reasons- they are too young to have a child, they were raped, they don’t want a child right now, they can’t afford a child, the father is an abuser, they never want to have a child, a pregnancy could kill/maim them- pick one, pick many, they all apply to different people at different times. That’s reality. No one got tricked into it; women looked at their situation and made a sober, considered decision on what was best for them, their existing children, and their future children. The fact that you can’t even consider that possibility says very bad things about you.

            Many people, men and women, were tricked into smoking. For awhile, people didn’t realize it was bad for you, and for even longer tobacco companies lied to us about it. Do you have funny conspiracy theories about how men were tricked into smoking too? Do you think that this then invalidates all male anger and achievements since then?

          • StephanieJR

            The truth is, you are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Wow, StephanieJR, you just earned a lot of credit toward your PCM (Pablo Certified Midwife) diploma!

            Excellent Toy Story reference! Just outstanding!

          • myrewyn

            I hardly dare to post because I don’t want to further poke the troll… but has anyone been able to figure out who TPTB are? Is this guy a full on lizard-people conspiracy theorist? I’ve never met one in the wild before.

          • StephanieJR

            There’s human sacrifice now, apparently.

            My mum says to tell him the powers that be in my life are her and my gran. And the rabbit.

          • Nick Sanders

            Your enemy is yourself.

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            Who is the Powers that Be? The Goddess? She frowns at your ignorance.

            20% of MEN are childless. Have they been tricked?

          • Nick Sanders

            Give bunny scritches from me!

          • StephanieJR

            Bunny scritches received!

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            I am a feminist, and a man.

            Do you have an opinion about that?

            Don’t worry, I’m passing on my genes to the next generation, which is what worries you so much.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            There are plans for a protest named “A day without women” this summer. What are your plans? Are you going to join?

            Being a Feminist does not stop you acting like a man.

            Why don´t you start fighting for some real values like.
            – Investigatiation of Planned Parenthood for being racist toward Blacks?
            – Investigation of Planned Parenthood for selling bodyparts?
            – Investigation of Pediphilia, child sacrifice and caniballism within The elite?
            – Investigating rape by illegal immigrants (in Norway we have investigated 350 brutal rapes of innocent women. None of the men were of norwegian origin)
            – Reading between the lines from his latest speek, and funding of US Military, he is going to take USA to war. Sons and daughters will be sent to fight and possibly die, probably to countries that never threatened USA
            – Make alliances with neighbours, that may protect you, when hell breaks loose – the one based on fear and desperation, not on frustration and anger?

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            I cannot speak to the situation in Norway. In the United States, native born Americans are TWICE as like to commit crimes as immigrants. Immigrants are less likely to be criminal!

            As a long time supporter and client of Planned Parenthood I can tell you that your PP claims are the usual right wing fantasy crap.

            Planned Parenthood is not racist and shame on you for spreading this lie. Margaret Sanger was not racist either, but she did believe in creating a better society through limiting births in lower class women. She felt that women of limited economic means should have fewer children to better their own lives and those of the children they do have.

            From Margaret Sanger’s Wikipedia entry:
            “Consequently, she (Sanger) rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors.[114] Instead she stressed limiting the number of births to live within one’s economic ability to raise and support healthy children.”

            Of course you do not mention some of the most famous anti-feminists ever — the Nazis in Germany — who believed that “Aryan” women should have as many children as possible. When you speak of how whites are going to be overwhelmed by the sheer number of dark skinned people, this is the first thing that comes to mind..

            Children are most likely to be sexually abused by their own family, which is why it is hard to prosecute. It is a big problem.

            Child sacrifice? Where are the missing children? Caniballism? C’mon.

            I think we agree on one thing — Donald Trump and his enablers are a scourge on the world.

          • MaineJen

            No. His planet is populated by lizard people.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Touché ,-)

        • Azuran

          But wait, you don’t believe in evolution? Yet you believe that animals will breed with the best suitable mate in order to have the strongest offspring. And that the development (meaning, the evolution) of humans is gene driven.
          That’s evolution dude!

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            That I agree. Where we may defer, is the point of origin. You may think Man is made out mud.
            I think we must have been created by some intelligent universal force, or God.

          • Nick Sanders

            Yeah, not mud, how insulting! Clearly we’re made from dust!

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Welcome to the debate. I hereby divert your blame to Darwin.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfp2O9ADwGk

          • Nick Sanders

            Darwin said nothing about were life came from, only what it did in the course of existing.

            Also, a song about the crappy life of a coal miner doesn’t really add anything to your argument, regardless of it’s opening line or overall awesomeness.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Darwin was part of TPTB.
            And coal miners and feminists are all Gods children.
            And so are you and I.
            This is not a fight between you and me. It is a fight against “Them” (TPTB).

          • Nick Sanders

            See this is exactly what I was mocking you for, this incredibly myopic “us vs them” mentality that labels all difference from you not just opposition, but identical.

            And no, Darwin was not part of nefarious “Powers That Be”. He was a biologist who took a sea voyage and wrote a book about what he saw and learned.

          • MaineJen

            No Nick. He was clearly an evil christian zionist. Or wait…are zionists supposed to be good or evil? I’m losing track.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            If you would like to educate yourself about Darwin, you may find some interesting facts on this link:
            https://www.henrymakow.com/2013/08/Darwinism-is-an-Illuminati-Scam.html

          • Heidi

            Stardust actually.

          • MaineJen

            We are all…stardust!! *backs away, clinking coins together*

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            Present evidence.

            Otherwise, my belief that we were created by the kind benevolence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as valid. After all, I do love a good plate of spaghetti and meatballs.

          • Azuran

            Honestly, spaghetti has done more in my life than ‘god’. Spaghetti has fed me. Part of my baby was made from spaghetti!!! Ah the miracle of life.

          • MaineJen

            R’amen

          • N

            Udon

          • Azuran

            Can’t be that intelligent, if you are the end result.

        • Daleth

          That being said, I belieive that the most sexy female dog prefers to breed with the toughest male

          You’re incorrect on that, for starters.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank You. You are probably right.

            Regard it as a freudian slip. Should have been: “The toughest male prefer to breed with the most sexy female dogs” (meant to be provocative, not factual). 😉

            Since I have made the decision to avoid capital Y from now on, which prove myself previously having been wrong, I beg you and others to research, who invented “Feminism” and why, because if you do not, you and other Feminists may end up being governed by a NWO, or alternatively live under Sharia Law. In both cases, not only your “rights” will certainly be gone, but everybody else´s….

            My thoughts are: “This is not about rights, it is about responsibilities”.

          • Azuran

            Actually, a male dog will try to breed any and all receptive female dogs it can find.
            Yea sure, demanding equal rights will lead to sharia law.
            So……we should accept our fate as inferior beings because otherwise we will become inferior beings? And that makes sense to you?

          • Nick Sanders

            Don’t you understand? All ideologies that Dagfinn disagrees with are actually secretly the same. That’s why Zionists started feminism so they could implement Sharia law. There are only two groups in the world: traditional, right thinking white Christians and Everyone Else, who are all colluding to bring down the only source of decency in the world.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You are touching on some important truths.
            “Right and wrong”.
            “Good and evil”.
            Both being quite important – opposed to “hot air”.

          • Who?

            That is a disturbingly thorough analysis of D’s position.

          • kilda

            I may have misread the article Dagfinn originally posted, but I think it was saying that feminism is bad because it’s secretly antizionist – not because it’s pro-zionist. I think . It wasn’t the most coherent article I ever read.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you Nick.
            You made your point clear for everybody to see.

            But this being said, and being somewhat confused, who are these “white Christians and Everyone Else”?
            And what are they colluding about?
            How do you define “bringing down the source of decency in the world”?

          • Nick Sanders

            Ok, thats it, I’m done here. It’s one thing to yell at someone for being an asshole, but there’s no point in it if they can’t even coherently interpret what is being said by other people. You clearly can’t tell when someone is criticizing what you have said, pointing out inconsistencies in your statements, or outright mocking your idiotic worldview. Disagreement of any level more complex that “No, you’re wrong”, even if it’s just “No you’re wrong” followed by an elaboration of how you are wrong , goes in your head and comes out as tangled nonsense, often having little bearing on the substance of what was said to you.It’s so bad that I’ve wondered at times if you are some chatterbot, rather than a real person. Conversation with you being impossible due to the utter inability to exchange ideas in a meaningful manner, I’m not going to be replying you again if I can at all avoid it.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Jeez, Nick, you are just figuring that out now? I told you all days ago this guy is blithering loon. It took about 30 seconds to see it.

            Really hard to have a coherent conversation with blither. I don’t know why you all have even been trying.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            No, lack of reproduction may lead to Sharia Law.
            But If TPTB get it their way with their NWO, who knows?
            Either or, you may end up loosing all the rights, you have been fighting so viciously for.

            About male dogs, you are absolutely correct. If you have some extra time, though, I suggest you research how female ducks counter their challenge regarding an owerflow of male ducks.

          • MaineJen

            So how do you feel about the illuminati, dagfinn?

          • Nick Sanders

            We’re approaching “Old Man Yells at Cloud” levels of insanity here, aren’t we?

          • MaineJen

            *grabs popcorn*

          • Nick Sanders

            You mean the evolutionary arms race between duck penises and duck vaginas?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Kudos, you checked it out. One penis, many vaginas, most of them fake – who would believe that?

          • Nick Sanders

            I already knew about it. My point was the word “evolutionary “, but that seems to have gone over your head.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Sorry, you are absolutely right.
            Down on my knees, I humbly ask for your forgiveness.

          • MaineJen

            Female ducks have obviously been influenced by the Duck PTB. They had better cut it out before their whole species goes extinct.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Seems like we are witnessing evolution realtime. Female ducks evolving into Feminist ducks – WTF would believe, that would happen in our lifetime?

          • Azuran

            Ducks are literally evolving vagina in order to control their reproduction. Seems to me like this would be an argument in favour of birth control and abortion. Kinda the opposite of what you are advocating.

            So, have ducks been taken over by TPTB and are now living under Sharia Law and going extinct?

          • MaineJen

            What would duck sharia law look like?
            “You must quack in formation”
            “No green feathers allowed”

          • Azuran

            Maybe all Mallard Ducks have green head and the female ones are just wearing feathered duck hijab?

          • Azuran

            You know, you can find examples of basically anything if you look in the animal kingdom.
            -Hamsters often eat their babies
            -Male lions kill cubs of other male
            -Dominant Meerkat females will repeatedly abuse subordinate gestating Meerkat until they abort from the stress.
            -Cuckoo birds dump their eggs in other birds nest and let others.
            -A ridiculous number of insect will eat their mate.
            What does that tell us about how we should consider our own reproduction and rights? Absolutely nothing.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Enjoyed these examples. They were absolutely worth a thought. 🙂

            Found this today. Seems like a perfect tool for Feminists, that want 100% control of their life and future.

            http://rinf.com/alt-news/newswire/ground-breaking-genetic-test-may-lead-to-sex-selective-abortions/

          • Azuran

            What, you think you’ve got me stumped with this? As if I didn’t already know about sex selective abortion. (which is actually very far from as big a problem as you think it is, very few people actually do it) But unlike you, I’m consistent in my belief.
            And I’ll refer you to this:
            https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2016/04/12/check-your-privilege-and-your-facts-before-discussing-sex-selective-abortion/
            Sex selective abortion is a symptom of the sexism in our society. Meaning: The belief that women are inferior (Meaning that, as someone who think women are inferior, YOU are part of the problem. Congrats! Babies are being aborted because of YOUR retarded beliefs) As you can see, the majority of people seeking gender selective abortion also mainly come from (unsurprisingly) countries where women are considered inferior to men.
            The solution to this problem, is equality and education, not forcing pregnancy on women and bringing unwanted children (who could be abused) in this world.

            Women have the right to control their own reproduction. And that means that each is free to decide what is or isn’t a reason for them to keep or abort a pregnancy. No one reason is better than another, it’s her body and her choice.

            What would you propose? That we rank reasons for abortion in most valid to less valid? That we make old men like you decide what is or isn’t a valid reason? That we force vulnerable women to go through multiple pregnancy and births until she finally has that one boy her husband wants because he (like you) believes men are superior?
            Sex selective abortion will stop when we have reached true equality.

            And it’s not like it wasn’t already a thing. Infanticide of unwanted baby girls has existed for hundreds and probably thousands of years. Actually, If you were to look at it more deeply, you’d probably find that a biggest proportion of women make it to childbearing age in society with more equality. After all, look at China. They put all those ‘inferior’ baby girls in orphanage. And that’s when they didn’t outright kill them and bury them or thrown in a public bathroom garbage can.

            So yea, what is sad is that we live in a society where women are seen as inferior. And no, taking away women’s right to abortion is very obviously not the answer.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you for serious answer.
            Sex selective abortion was new to me. I agree it may be misused.
            I regard both sexes equal. No problem there. Abortion to me is a problem, as it is against my religious beliefs. That being said, there may be cases where abortion may be accepted. That being if rape has occurred, or the child has been diagnosed with some serious defects. What worries me, is the high numbers of abortions, that indicate that abortion may be used as an alternative to prevention. What also worries me, is how hard abortion seem to be pushed very by TPTB, at the same time they also push population control.

          • Azuran

            You expect us to believe that you think both sexes are equals? After spending days telling us that our role is to make more kids, that we have been brainwash by TPTB or whatever, that you respect ‘real women’, that feminism (aka equality) is going to bring in sharia law and make us go extinct.
            Yea no. You don’t believe both sexes are equal.

            You want to lower abortion? Well, you know what lowers abortion? Contraception and sex education. You’ll find that virtually everyone here is also pretty in favour of sex education and easily affordable contraception.
            But you know what is the biggest obstacle to getting those?
            Basically religion, yours included.
            Religious groups are constantly fighting to reduce sex ed, wanting ‘abstinence’ to be the only way. They falsely claim that many extremely effective contraceptive are causing abortion (which is false). They fight to prevent adequate coverage of contraception in health plan.

            Nobody here is ‘pushing’ for abortion. We are pushing for every women to be able to make their own choice. And yea, everyone here would be super happy if every single women had access to 100% effective contraception and if 100% of pregnancy were wanted pregnancy without any health risk. But that’s no the world we live in.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            What I want you to believe, is that I consider both sexes being equal.
            What I also want you to believe, is that i consider Feminism as politics. You might better understand what I mean, if you compare Feminism with Socialism, Communism, Nazisism or Zionism.

            All above, according to my research, being a result of TPTB tricking millions of humans into believing in some fake dream, using propaganda and mass hysteria. Try to imagine 100.000 people celebrating Adolf Hitler. Most of them normal men and women, just like today with Feminism.

            If you want to throw some bad names at me, feel free to charge me with being “anti-femittic”. I think that will fit in fine.

          • Azuran

            Sorry, but you have said way too much shit for me to believe that you think we are equal. You might think that’s what you think, but the things you have said clearly show that deep down you don’t. Kinda like the person who says ‘I’m not racist, but…..
            Of course Feminism is at least partly political. After all, having your rights recognized by the law is pretty much the first step. The battle for race equality also had a huge political part.

            And seriously, your research is just wrong. There is no TPTB tricking millions of human. Make up your mind, are we equal or is equality a ‘fake dream’
            And really, if you truly believe that we were equals, what does it matter where it came from? It gave us the right and equality we deserve.

          • You never get equal rights without playing politics. However, feminism is a movement for equality along the lines of the US Civil Rights Movement, the LGBT equality movement, and the abolition-of-slavery movement. You can “consider” feminism to be a political movement, but you would mostly be wrong.

            The rallying cry of feminism is literally “women are people”. It is “all people, regardless of gender, deserve to be treated equally”. That’s it. If you think that being against those things is a good thing, then you are a horrible person.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I will be out of here now.
            If you or anybody have real interest in what I have been trying to communicate to you about TPTB, this video sums it up quite well:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7PZ-vGB5Qs
            Wish you all well.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            If you want to dive even deeper, this may be a good place to start:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM
            3 mill views.

          • Mmm, no, how about we don’t go follow anti-Semitic conspiracy theory rabbit holes? Have you noticed that every time you don’t have an answer to things, you just try to deflect to your videos without addressing the fact that you just got shown to be horribly wrong? Because we all noticed that.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Feminerd,
            I am out of here. You do not have to follow anything I have posted. That is completely up to you.
            If you do, fine. If you don´t, also fine.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            probably because youtube videos are hardly evidence and there are no “Khazarian mafia” around here. Italian, Russian, Irish, and Chinese, sure, and a few Jews are in one or another of those.

          • There is an Israeli mafia too. They do a lot of diamond smuggling and gun running.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Not terribly surprising, but probably not what jerkface is talking about. Learn something new every day.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You argue like a holocaust denier. You know the real ones, that prevented the whistleblowers of that time, telling the World about Hitlers ongoing genocide of innocent Jews.
            We know The Zionists financed Hitler, and we know they were behind the boycott of german goods to USA, that was used to go after the german Jews. Whether they were also behind this holocaust denial, or whether they were just ignorant people that bought into Hitlers propaganda, we do not know.

            By the way, there are very few Jews, that are of Semitic origin. But there are a lot of Arabs, that are.

            But sorry, I really have to go now.

          • Bahahaha … oh man, good ones. Wait, you’re serious? Yeah, you’re an idiot. Moving on. And I’m going to guess you’ve never heard of Sephardic Judaism?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Sorry, could not resist, proving myself being an “anti-semitic” to the members of the Forum…

            Any suggestions of any future debates, that may engage Feminists?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I have not heard about them. Bet they are mostly Rhesus minus though…

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Hey, I really mean it. I have to go.

            Leave you with one of my favorite tunes as a good-by:
            “If you don´t know me by now” – Simply Read
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTcu7MCtuTs

            40 mill plus views. Hope you will enjoy.

          • Siri Dennis

            Dagfinn, gå og legg deg. Du er overtrett.

            PS det heter Rhesus negative på engelsk.

          • Dr Kitty

            Did you just tell him to go and lie down because he’s overtired?
            Love it.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Takk skal du ha. Litt søvn gjorde godt, og feilen er nå rettet opp.

          • Siri Dennis

            Bare hyggelig! 🙂

          • Azuran

            Oh look, you’re still here. Didn’t you have to leave? For like, 3 days now?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            It may be “The Mandela effect”. Suggest you check it out.. ,-)

          • Azuran

            It doesn’t make any sense in this context at all. You’ve claimed, MANY times in the past few days that you had to leave and that this was your last comment. Or do you need me to take a screenshot of your own comments?
            There is no ‘Mandela effect’ here. Unless in your mind ‘Mandela effect’ also refers to some occult Jewish conspiracy theory you also believe in.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Like the former Governor of California – “I´ll be back”!

            “But Rocambole wasn´t dead”.
            http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/r/rocambol.htm
            The Occult Plot to Idealize Women
            https://www.henrymakow.com/

          • Azuran

            Seriously dude, you’re starting to look crazy. You should get some help.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Yeah, I now have him blocked. I just figured he was a blithering loon, but now he’s gone off the deep end.

          • MaineJen

            “Starting” to look crazy?…

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you Azuran.
            I think you are completely spot on. This was really an eyeopener for me. But reality can often be quite hard to realize by oneself.
            Then I slept on it, and tried to figure out what has happened to me. Think I found part of the answer in this link:
            “What the hell is going on?”
            http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-07/what-hell-going

            Suggest you do not read it, as it is long and extensive, and you risk becoming a lunatic, just like me.

          • Dr Kitty

            You claim to have never heard of Sephardic Judaism, and yet make claims that “very few” Jewish people are Semitic?

            That’s a special level of ignorant anti-semitism.

          • MaineJen

            Rhesus negative? What fresh level of fuckery is this?

          • I really wanted to ask that, and I really didn’t want to ask that. What on earth would that have to do with anything?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Because they are different. (Just like The Zionist Jews, that claim they are Gods chosen people), and live i the area mentioned in the debate.
            http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=65408#more-65408

          • MaineJen

            OMFG dude. GTFO. O- blood type is the universal donor for whole blood, that is the only reason they get so many calls from blood donation centers. Rhesus-negative is just a blood type, like A, B, AB, or O, or one of the countless other idiosyncratic blood types. It’s a recessive mutation. Like blue eyes, or blonde hair.

            You have now proven yourself to be a completely uneducated buffoon, and a remarkably gullible one at that.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Pretty sure we already knew that.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Exactly, like blue eyes and blonde hair – and a brain, combined with proper ability to read, and being able to addressing others with respect.

            You just proved, that you did not even care clicking my link, before shooting off your mouth.
            http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstateofthenation2012.com%2F%3Fp%3D65408%23more-65408%3AZcGVobTuKEsJwJs49sNyCQmy29M&cuid=1616248

            Not good.

          • MaineJen

            I did click on your link, that’s how I knew WTF you were talking about.

            Half the article talks about the X Files and how true-to-life it was, and the other half talks about how O-negative people have psychic powers and TPTB are trying to recruit them for some nefarious purpose.

            Did I miss anything?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Yes MaineJen, you missed the most important part.
            You seem to have accepted, without having fully understood, that there are powerful people, that think they are being your superiours, without you having a clue abut it.

          • No, what she said was that you were full of shit and that website is full of shit. It’s conspiracy theory bullshit with no evidence whatsoever behind it, and you’ve woven it into some sort of anti-Semitic conspiracy on top of that. Of course she rejects the basic premise out of hand, as do all rational people.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            If that is right. R- is a conspiracy theory? And that there is a significant number of R- concentrated in the Basque part of Spain is a lie? And that “The Sephardic Jews” living close to this area is not a fact?
            Christian Zionists claim to being Gods chosen people. Are you one of them, or do you abstain?
            And by the way, me being full of shit, most men are – and so are women. Regarded in this context, the sexes seem to be quite equal.

          • MaineJen

            Of course populations where a mutation originated/pooled would contain a larger proportion of people with that mutation. Certain areas of northern/eastern Asia have more people with blood type B; is that a conspiracy too?

            I have dark curly hair; does that mean I have psychic powers too? Or does it just mean I have Welsh ancestry?

            Jesus, man. Come back to Earth.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I agree the latter part of our debate may have gone somewhat astray.

            That being said, you seem to still opposing my original claim, that Christian Zionist Jews are behind Feminism.
            Have you been duped into accepting the Zionists are Gods chosen people, and your only choice is to obey them?
            Are you going to be part of the purple revolution being planned?

            I sincerely hope not!

          • MaineJen

            I have no thoughts at all about christian zionist jews, or about anything else you’ve said. I think you’ve gotten yourself into believing some crazy shit.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            OK, You are not alone. So are some 100.000 of your ilk, running around with pink “pussyhats” out of control in the streets of USA.
            Why do you not do some research into my claims? Are you afraid what you will find, or are you afraid to stand by yourself?

          • MaineJen

            What are *you* afraid of? Why does birth control and declining population scare you so? Let’s leave religion/powers that be and whatever out of it for a moment. Why are *you personally* worried about feminism?

          • kilda

            um, because you are obviously mentally ill?

          • *blink* Jews are not Christians, and Christians are not Jews. How exactly do you get Christian Zionist Jews?

            Yeah, your original claim is utter nonsense, and of course we all oppose it because 1) there’s no evidence of it, 2) it’s factually incorrect (again, feminism is the argument that women are people too and deserve to be treated as such), and 3) it’s utterly nonsensical. You’re also talking to a lot of atheists (though many believers as well)- no one here thinks anyone is God’s chosen people, so how could we be duped into thinking so? You make no sense!

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            “How could we be duped into thinking so?”
            Because the Cristian Zionists have total power over you, since having had it for several generations, while you and your ancestors have been clueless.

          • Uh huh. Sure. I don’t believe in gods, my family is Jewish, we’re all for equal treatment of all people … so surely we are being controlled by cartoonishly evil villains? Think about this- you make no sense.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            “Our demands are practical conclusions which we have drawn from the burning needs, the shameful humiliation of women, defenseless and without rights. We demonstrate thereby that we recognize these needs, and are sensible of the humiliation of the woman, the privileges of the man. That we hate, yes, hate everything, and will abolish everything which tortures and oppresses the woman worker, the housewife, the peasant woman, It wins us the confidence of the masses of women who feel themselves exploited, enslaved, suppressed, by the domination of the man, by the power of the employer, by the whole of society.”
            – Vladimir Lenein

          • Do you have a point? Are we now dealing with Christian Zionist Jewish Marxists, just for extra-special nonsense?

          • Nick Sanders

            Told you, everything he disagrees with is the same and part of a unified plot.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            I swear I’m beginning to think my daredevil threenager with a passion for coating his trains in yoghurt has more sense than Dagfinn.

          • Being Rh- doesn’t matter (and use proper medical terminology, for fuck’s sake. I’m a total layperson and I know this one). But yeah, it doesn’t matter for anything except which blood types you can accept if you need a blood transfusion. That’s why you’re full of shit.

            Lots of people claim to be God’s chosen people. They’re all wrong. What else is new? It’s still not a conspiracy.

          • Azuran

            And Scotland has a lot of redhead and northern countries tend to have a lot of blond.
            It’s just genetic, you idiot. A certain portion of the world will have a majority of people who are RH- either because it provided them with better survival (like better immunity to diseases) or the initial population that moved to that area had a high ratio of RH- people due to random chance or something.

            Also: I’m an atypical RH-. Meaning that when they test my blood type, I come out as RH+, but my D antigen is not the standard one, so I can develop an immune response to normal RH+ blood and I can only receive RH- blood in transfusion.
            Where does that put me in your Zionist delusion?
            Oh, I know, I must be a spy!!!! My special blood allows me to infiltrate population with high RH+ blood without being detected. And then use my atypical blood type to affect their birthrate by having babies with a RH+ man and killing his baby with my blood type incompatibility.

          • MaineJen

            What she said.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            From Wikipedia: “Following the October Revolution, the Bolshevik Alexandra Kollontai persuaded Vladimir Lenin to make [March 8th, International Women’s Day] an official holiday in the Soviet Union….Kollontai believed that, like the state, the family unit would wither away once the second stage of communism became a reality. She viewed marriage and traditional families as legacies of the oppressive, property-rights-based, egoist past.”

          • MaineJen

            So, okay. You’re afraid that if women stop having babies and join the workforce (which-hello-has already happened), the entire world will succumb to communism? Or do you merely yearn for a simpler time of oppressive, property-rights-based male domination?

          • Dr Kitty

            Oh good.
            A Basque- Illuminati-Alien-Zionist conspiracist.

            Also, Southern France/ Northern Spain isn’t really “near” where Sephdic Jews are historically from (North Africa, Turkey, the Middle East, Spain and Portugal).

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            What´s your problem? I have claimed Christian Zionists being responsible for Feminism.

            The Pope has claimed that we are all children of any god we find suitable, Christian, Baptist, Buddist, Islam – he does not care. He has even claimed, that we do not have to believe in God, to be admitted into Heaven.

            And, you have not even come close to proving me wrong, about the Christian Zionists initiating Feminism.
            https://www.henrymakow.com/

          • MaineJen

            …because it’s an absurd claim.

          • Who?

            If only you could though.

            Go, that is.

          • Daleth

            I’m just going to point out that what you wrote is a meaningless tautology, since the definition of “sexy” is “people want to ‘breed’ with you.”

            Beyond that, I’m done feeding the troll. Folks, did you know those troll dolls were originally Scandinavian, just like Dagfinn?! How appropriate!

            http://mentalfloss.com/article/88225/12-hair-raising-facts-about-troll-dolls

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            You are perfectly correct. I am a retired Norwegian that is currently living in Switzerland. Former manager and owner of several national and multinational companies for 38 years.

            My visit on this site, I have to admit, has not been very successful.

            So, if you decide to leave the debate, it is perfectly understandable. You will probably be followed by others.

            Wish You well.

          • Nick Sanders

            Sounds like you’re one of those “elite” you keep fretting about so much.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Believe it or not, I used to be.
            May be my knowledge of what is really going on, made me change my mind about TPTB?
            Fact is, I am one of the very few Norwegians, that ever had a one hour meeting face to face with Bill Gates.

          • Nick Sanders

            That would be cool, if I believed you. But I don’t.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well, that being the case, you leave me no option, other than proving you wrong:
            http://www.yatedo.com/p/Dagfinn+Arne+Klausen/normal/6ecb258f6deedfe66a30f5be9fd09b7d

          • MaineJen

            ’77 thoughts on “ Does the Kenyan UNICEF Tetanus Vaccine contain HCG and make women infertile? ”’

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Very good. I like.
            This, you need a lot of academic educational education and skills to debate.
            I really hope you are prepared, because if so, i expect we both will be in for a wild ride.

          • MaineJen

            No…again, I was quoting from the page you linked. It’s saying *you* have 77 thoughts on…

            You know what? Never mind.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            What do you mean, never mind?
            Myself, I engaged personally, giving these 23 bishops biologicial facts backing their own claims.
            Believe it or not, from my personal “snail-mail letters” I received no reply.
            Then they all went silent…
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/13/kenya-catholic-tetanus-vaccine_n_6151946.html

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            To The Honorable Bishops of Kenya:

            His Eminence John Cardinal Njue
            Chairman-Kenya Conference of Catholic Bishops
            Rt. Rev. Philip Anyolo Vice Chairman (KCCB)Homa Bay
            Most Rev. Zacchaeus OkothKisumu
            Most Rev. Peter Kairo Nyeri
            Rt. Rev. Philip Sulumeti Kakamega
            Rt. Rev. Paul Darmanin Garissa
            Rt. Rev. Cornelius K. Arap Korir Eldoret
            Rt. Rev. Joseph Mairura Okemwa Kisii
            Rt. Rev. Alfred Rotich Military Ordinariate
            Rt. Rev. Maurice Crowley Kitale
            Rt. Rev. Norman Wambua King’oo Bungoma
            Rt. Rev. Peter Kihara, IMC Marsabit
            Rt. Rev. David Kamau Ng’ang’a – Aux. Bishop Nairobi
            Rt. Rev. Anthony Ireri Mukobo, IMC Isiolo Vicariate
            Rt. Rev. Virgilio Pante Maralal
            Rt. Rev. Salesius Mugambi Meru
            Rt. Rev. Emmanuel Okombo Kericho
            Rt. Rev. Martin Kivuva Musonde Machakos
            Rt. Rev. Anthony Muheria Kitui
            Rt. Rev. James Maria Wainaina Muranga
            Rt. Rev. Paul Kariuki Njiru Embu
            Rt. Rev. Maurice Muhatia Makumba Nakuru
            Rt. Rev. Dominic Kimengich Lodwar
            Rt. Rev. Emmanuel Barbara Malindi Apostolic Administrator Mombasa
            Rt. Rev. Joseph Mbatia Nyahururu
            Rt. Rev. John Oballa Owaa Ngong
            Rt. Rev. Joseph Allesandro Co-adjutor Garrisa

            STAND BY THE TRUTH Lugano, December 5th 2014

            With regards to Your brave, ongoing, investigation into the Tetanus Vaccine, I wish to draw Your attention to the information hereunder, given me by a person with expertise of Bio-Chemistry.

            The conclusion to be drawn from the information would be the following:
            Even if the vaccine was intended for Population control, double-testing the vaccine will conclude insignificant content of hCG being present.
            What is important here, however, is that even “insignificant content” of hCG in the vaccine is conclusive proof, that it indeed has been developed for just that, Population Control.
            A test of hCG antibodies in the women having received the vaccine would also be conclusive. Such test should be initiated immediately, as the antibodies developed with first two shots, will wear off within approx 6 months.
            “The fact that a vaccine vial was tested and found to have levels of free HCG that are far lower than what is needed to cause future spontaneous abortion does not mean that the vaccine isn’t loaded with “denatured” HCG sufficient to induce antibody production. Some basic understanding of how vaccines work is in order. If free HCG is injected into a human it will be rapidly cleared with no immunogenic response. The way the vaccine is manufactured is to take HCG and attach it to a tetanus toxoid, thus making the vaccine antigenic. Importantly, once attached, it would not show up in an assay for HCG, because it is a completely different chemical entity at that point. See the abstract for a patent for HCG vaccine:
            “Antigenic modification of polypeptides
            US 5006334 A
            ABSTRACT
            Endogenous and exogenous proteins, and fragments thereof, are chemically modified outside the body of an animal so that when injected into the animal they produce more antibodies against the unmodified protein than would injection of the unmodified protein or fragment alone. The chemical modification may be accomplished by attaching the proteins or fragments to carriers such as, for example, bacterial toxoids. The chemical modification can also be accomplished by polymerization of protein fragments. Proteins which can be modified include Follicle Stimulating Hormone and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin. The modified polypeptide may be administered to animals for the purpose of contraception, abortion or treatment of hormone-related disease states and disease disorders…”
            So the presence of only a small amount of pure HCG in the vaccine proves nothing. It is the amount of chemically modified HCG that is the issue. In fact the presence of only a small amount of HCG is perfectly consistent with what you would expect in an imperfect manufacturing process involving the chemical modification of HCG.
            An accidental contamination at the manufacturing facility of pure tetanus vaccine would be impossible if the company manufacturing is in compliance with GMPs (Good Manufacturing Practices). Any pharmaceutical company producing contaminated products like this should and probably would be shut down.
            An independent unbiased well controlled test of the vaccine could ascertain the truth, but believe me, that is not going to happen. There is too much room for sleight of hand in handling the samples, doctoring the results, etc.
            As for whether the WHO would lie — of course they would. They think they are doing good, saving the world. A little white lie for such a noble cause is not a concern

            Be aware that concluding “insignificant values” of hCG in the vaccine-samples being tested, was used as a, potential, “fake proof”, in what may have been a WHO “cover up” in the 1990 – 1995 case: http://tinyurl.com/o5ddmpx

            Yours faithfully
            Dagfinn Arne Klausen

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Because PRIESTS are such a consistentlyh excellent source of science.

          • Dagfinn Klausen
          • Cody

            I don’t think he can hear you through his tinfoil hat.

          • Azuran

            It’s not like you’ve really done anything to prove yourself right. You are basically just rambling crazy thing.

          • N

            “Believe it or not, I used to be part of The elite.”
            And? Did you meet The Powers That Be?
            Did They ask you to sacrifice children?
            Did you make plans for how to take control over the world???
            Did Bill Gates ask for human sacrifice? Did he use dark magic to be able to invent Microsoft?

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            So sad! Your idiocy failed to convince anyone! Go away troll.

          • MaineJen

            So you are a millionaire who retired to Switzerland. …How are you not a member of the global elite? You’re one of the most privileged people on this planet, and you’re sitting on the internet fretting about how white women aren’t having enough babies.

            Sad!

    • Nick Sanders

      Congrats on your understanding neither evolution nor how social movements work.

    • MaineJen

      Oh my god! Feminists are not a separate species! We are not going to die out! Human beings are not in danger of extinction!

    • Science Stops Self-delusion

      Genes are not the only things we pass on the next generation. One of the most powerful tricks human beings have is that they pass on way more than genes from one generation to the next.

      But not all things we pass on are positive. Take global warming, for example.

      There are 8,000,000,000 human beings on the planet — way more than there has ever been, by a lot. There were only half as many people in 1974 — just 43 years ago. The human population has exploded over the last 200 years from about 1 billion then.

  • Dagfinn Klausen

    Being male, and having researched how Feminism came about, I would claim that most modern Feminists are taken hostage by TPTB, without having a clue about how and why.
    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/126348/when-feminists-were-zionists

    • MaineJen

      Oh please, explain more about Feminism to us! *leans forward eagerly*

      • Dagfinn Klausen

        Forget it. I have spoken my case. Your call.
        Suggest You leave Your feelings behind, and engage Your brain and historical knowledge in a reply, based on facts and logics, presented with articulate elegance.

        • Empress of the Iguana People

          FYI: We do not capitalize “you” in English except for 1) the beginning of a sentence, 2) part of a title, or 3) when speaking to God. Jen and I are awesome, but we aren’t God.

          • MaineJen

            Goddesses, maybe 😉

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well being well educated out of Norway in 1970´s we learned allways to capitalize. What is Your problem? Are You anti-semittic?

          • MaineJen

            Quit editing your comments. That makes it very hard to respond to you in a way that makes sense.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Sorry, being me one, and You many, I wil try my best from now on.

          • Empliau

            Let me put this to you: do you think I, as a native speaker of English, should be telling you how to speak Norwegian properly?

            No?

            Then stop telling native speakers of English about our capitalization norms. I am familiar with a wide variety of 18th century novels, where capitalization was freely used for nouns. I have never seen “you” capitalized. Nor in the folios of Shakespeare is this common.

            My guess is you were taught English by a German (where the formal plural “you”, Sie, is capitalized).

            Finally, if you are impervious to clear evidence that you are wrong, you cannot possibly be as well-educated as you claim.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I have never claimed to tell You how to speak English. I have just told You, how I learned to speak it at school 50 years ago.

            What I have tried to tell You though, is that You, without Your knowledge have been taken hostage by TPTB, believing in Feminism.

            Feminism is nothing but propaganda. It has nothing to do with Your rights, but everything to do with making You feel inferiour.

            It has obviously been tremendously successful,

          • Azuran

            So, fighting for equal right is propaganda?
            You might want to open up a dictionary if you think that feminism has nothing to do with our rights.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            My father-in-law was educated in the UK in the 60s and 70s. He does not capitalize “you”. Who is more likely to teach proper English, your Norwegian teacher or his actually English teachers?
            Hebrew and Arabic are both Semetic languages, and both Jews and Arabs are of Semites. I said nothing about antisemitism or zionists of any sort.

          • MaineJen

            It is making me very uneasy, how he tries to drag ‘christian zionists’ and antisemitism and “TPTB” into everything…are there some major dog whistles hidden in there that I’m missing? I need to brush up on my tin-foil-hat lingo…

          • Azuran

            Well, you ARE the empress of the Iguana People. Depending on their society, it might make you some kind of goddess

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Well, I’m fairly sure my mother was the Avatar of the Mother Goddess, although that mantle hasn’t fallen to me. For heaven’s sake, the mail carrier’s water broke on our doorstep!

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          Forget it. I have spoken my case.

          Does that mean you are going to leave?

          Thanks for your contribution, and don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Or do. I really don’t care if it does.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank You for reminding me of my importance in this debate.

            Since Your replay seems to lack the most important part: “Engage Your brain and historical knowledge in a reply, based on facts and logics, presented with articulate elegance”, I decided to stay a little longer.

            So what do You think? Are the Feminists on the right track, demanding power and rights, without being able to bring their message on to the next generation – because of declining birthrates?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            So what do You think?

            I think you are a blithering loon.

            Look, you’ve said you’ve spoken your case. Good for you.

            Having done that, you are free to go away. We’ve heard what you said.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I do not trust You. Who is “We”?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Who is “We”?

            Anyone who can read.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Myself, I was looking for somebody that could think. You just proved my case.
            Thank You.

            So, I repete:
            Being male, and having researched how Feminism came about, I would claim that most modern Feminists are taken hostage by TPTB, without having a clue about how and why.
            http://www.tabletmag.com/jewis

          • MaineJen

            We heard you the first time. We just don’t agree. Or care.

          • Azuran

            So……..You think we are not having enough kids to deserve equal rights? You seem to be forgetting the fact that it takes 2 to make a baby, does that mean that men get rights only after they had a certain number of kids themselves?
            Seems to me you are basically saying we should just accept inferiority and just give births to a high number of inferior daughter to suffer as well in the future.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            No, I just think You lost track.

          • Azuran

            You said: Are the Feminists on the right track, demanding power and rights,
            without being able to bring their message on to the next generation –
            because of declining birthrates?
            That’s basically saying that our rights are dependent on the number of kids we have.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Absolutely not.
            You have to be able to achieve both, or loose.

          • Azuran

            So our rights are dependent on the number of kids we have.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            No, If You have decided to ride a political wave, You have to make certain, that You are not riding into a wall.
            That is not my problem, it is Yours.

          • Azuran

            And in what way does not having children makes me either not deserving or unable to be considered an equal?

            Let’s make a comparison: Are black people on the right track? demanding freedom from slavery and equal rights to whites if they don’t have many children to bring their message on to the next generation?
            You think that’s a good thing to say?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            No, but deciding not having children proves my case. Whatever reason, race or colour.

            You may still be a Feminist, but why do we care, if You have decided to depart from history!

            But, we do. We need Your children, to pass on to future generations our inheritage….

          • MaineJen

            Not having children to pass knowledge to does not stop you from making your mark on history.

            It’s this development called “having language…” it allows us to impart knowledge to one another without having to rely upon mere instinct.

          • Azuran

            Why are you putting the burden of producing the next generation on women? It takes 2 to tango dude. And generally speaking, men are usually more reluctant and wait longer before wanting to have babies.
            The lower birthrate is due to both men and women, making the choice TOGETHER about if and when to have children.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank You. I completely agree.

          • Azuran

            So why are you blaming feminism? Why don’t you go bother men and tell them their rights mean nothing if they don’t have at least 3 kids?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Good question. As this debate is about Feminism, why don´t You raise this important question?
            My full support is guaranteed.

          • Azuran

            You are the one going on about how we should be having kids otherwise we shouldn’t have rights. We aren’t the one arguing against people controlling their reproduction.

          • MaineJen

            You think it’s *absolutely impossible* to communicate our views in any other way than by passing them on to the next generation?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            This is a very good question.
            Have no good answer. If we are able to having them looking up to us, may be that is, what we should be trying to achieve.

          • MaineJen

            Well, there we agree. I’m raising my kids to believe that women and men should have equal rights, and should have all the same opportunities in life. Also, that we should treat people with kindness and respect, and just generally not be dicks to others.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank You. So do we. I am sure our children have reason to being proud.

          • Azuran

            Both my best friend and SO are teachers, so they are passing on to future generations much more than any parent. We are talking hundreds of kids over a 40 years period.
            Do they get more rights?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Actually it is not. It is the opposite. The number of children born, is the direct result of how you execute your rights. Let me illustrate my view with this desturbing fact:

            Since “right of choice” was legalized, 60 million abortions have been performed in USA.

          • Azuran

            So, I take it you are a forced birther. Unsurprising.

            But you are saying that we shouldn’t be asking for rights, because when we have rights we have fewer babies, so less people who are going to have the benefits of our rights.
            Basically saying that it’s better to live with less rights and bring more less valuable babies in the world.
            I’d rather have less kids (and by less kids, really I mean: As many kids as I wish to have) and have those fewer kids live a higher quality of life.

          • MaineJen

            It never occurred to you that people without children, or people who are not women, might support feminism too?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Why would they do that? Make no sense to me.

          • MaineJen

            You’re actually asking why men would care about feminism?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I love women, and have enormous respect for the real ones. On top of that, I am afraid Mankind, at the moment, may be on the wrong track. That is why.

          • MaineJen

            “The real ones.” Have you met fake women? I didn’t know cyborg technology had advanced that far.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I regard Feminists as women having been led astray by TPTB, as long as somebody has not proven me wrong.

            I am sure I have support for this claim from both sexes.

          • Azuran

            Feminist are people (who can be women, men or transgender) who believe women have equal rights to men. That’s it.
            You think that people who believe that have been led astray?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Absolutely. Feminism is a political standpoint. Political standpoints do not breed children, or change genes developed during thousands of years.

          • Azuran

            So, first of all, either start believing in evolution or stop talking about the change of our genes. You can’t have it both way.
            Second, thanks for confirming that you think women are inferior to men.
            Please, enlighten us in your disgusting view, in what order of superiority would you place: White man, white women, black man, black women, Jew woman/men, muslim woman/man, transgenders, gays, infertile people compared to their fertile peers.

            Also, Where I live, animals have rights. But my dog is neutered, so he cannot breed. Does this mean animals rights apply less to him than they do an intact dog?
            But then again, he’s epileptic, has unilateral hip displasia and food allergies, and all three of those have genetic components. So……..if I hadn’t neutered him, would he have less rights than a healthy dog? Due to his tainted genetics, does he have more rights neutered of not?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I am not debating: White man, white women, black man, black women, Jew woman/men, muslim woman/man, transgenders, gays, infertile people.

            I am debating Feminists, who I claim has been lead astray by TPTB.

            So far, in the debate, nobody seems to have proved me wrong.

          • Azuran

            As I’ve said before, Feminist are people who believe women and men are equals.
            And you said that is wrong. So you think men are superior to women.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Men and Women are equal, but just as long as they are allowed to be women and men.

          • MaineJen

            How about they are just allowed to be the kind of people they want to be, without reference to your or anyone else’s definition of what they “should” be?

          • Azuran

            And what is your definition of being allowed to be men and women?
            Most people here would actually be of the mind that anyone is allowed to be pretty much anything they want as long as they don’t hurt other people. So yea, women and men are totally allowed to be women and men. What are you even talking about?
            And what if I’m ‘allowed’ to be a women, but I don’t WANT to. Is that bad? Are you saying I should be forced to comply with some arbitrary definition of what a women is?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            This is a very difficult question.

            In our society, we are under attack from many sources, making a serious impact on individuals and society as whole.
            Having said that, if You listen to Your inner feelings, and act accordingly, in a honest way, You will hopefully live a good life.
            If You are Christian, this will be challenging, as You will have to live Your life according to The Bible, and not according to society´s consent.

          • Azuran

            It shouldn’t be difficult. YOU are the one who said it, you should have a pretty good idea what you mean by it.
            And if my inner feeling is that I am equal to men, and that I’m not going to have kids. That’s ok, with you?

          • MaineJen

            Which parts of the bible are we supposed to live by? The part that tells us to love our neighbor? (Including our Muslim neighbor, our black neighbor, and our feminist neighbor) Or the part that tells us to stone adulterers, not wear clothing of mixed threads (goodbye, polyester blends!), and eschew shellfish? OR, the part that tells us how much it’s fair to sell our daughters for, or what price to pay a girl’s family after you’ve raped her?

            I agree, the bible as a whole is a challenging philosophy to live by.

          • Nick Sanders

            It’s not on other people to prove you wrong, it’s on you to prove yourself right.

          • Azuran

            You say you love women, the fact you said you have respect for ‘real women’ shows that you don’t.

          • Oh, oh, please tell me what makes a “real” woman! I wanna know what your criteria are.

            Is it genitals? Functional reproductive tract? Having actually borne a child, or two, or seven? Being willing to bear a child? Having an “appropriate” attitude? What is an “appropriate” attitude? Self-identifying as a woman? Being seen as a woman by others? Being sexually attractive to a generic man? Being sexually attractive to you? There are just so many totally arbitrary things people come up with to decide what is a “real woman”, I can’t wait to see what flavor you bring us!

          • Azuran

            It makes no sense to you that men and women deserves the same human rights? Man you are really a despicable human being.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I think women has a plight to be the best women they are able to develop into, and bring their achievement onto the next generation.
            I think men have the same plight.

          • Azuran

            But not as equals

          • MaineJen

            Achievements are not heritable. They are accomplished by individuals.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            According to Darwin, that is not correct. Our genes are carried forward, whether we want it or not.
            What impact being Feminist has on our genes, I decline to comment…

          • MaineJen

            Yes, but by the time we are born, our genes are what they are. The things we accomplish during our lifetime (writing a book, making a scientific discovery etc) have no impact on our genes, or on which genes get passed on to our children.

            Having certain genes is not an “accomplishment.” It’s an accident of genetics.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Absolutelely, but the superior ones lives on to the next generation.

          • Azuran

            Except that the not ‘superior’ do so as well.
            Uneducated people, sick people, slightly less intelligent people. They have kids as well, and their genes go on to the next generation as well.
            Careful now, you are slipping into eugenics now. That’s really not a pretty subject.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I agree. Eugenics is absolutely not good. But I do not read Darwin being in that league. He was occupied with the natural evolution of the species.

          • Azuran

            Jesus, what are you even on about at this point?
            You are going on about how you don’t believe in evolution, but keep talking about darwin. Then you go on about how Feminism is negatively affecting our gene. How dogs chose the best mates to have the best offspring. How the best have to reproduce to make the next generation better. But oh, no, you are not touting eugenics.
            Newsflash: Yes you are.

          • Azuran

            And we are born with our gene. So our achievement, which are not in our genes, are not heritable.
            Being a feminist has no impact on our genes.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            According to Darwin, he claims it has.

          • Azuran

            No he didn’t.
            And as I said: Unless you drop creationist, stop talking about Darwin.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Why would they do that?

            Because they are not selfish assholes

            Make no sense to me.

            I’m not surprised.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Well, some of them may actually be. Where does that leave me?

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            I said it below. You are a blithering loon.

          • MaineJen

            Sadly, even assholes are capable of reproduction.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Interesting theory. ,-)

          • Nick Sanders

            Doesn’t that make them cloacae?

          • Science Stops Self-delusion

            Men make great feminists actually. If my wife is able to control her body and have equal opportunity and rights, that is good for me and our family. That seems obvious. You probably believe that if my wife has success outside the family that it diminishes me. Wrong! It helps the whole family, not just her! (And our community. And our country…)

          • Azuran

            My SO sure got a lot of benefits out of feminism and equality. My ability to work supported both of us while he did his master’s degree. It allowed us to buy a house and a second car for him. And now it allows us to have our first, planned baby while keeping financial security.
            If I had been limited to being a housewife and pop out babies, he’d be less educated, we’d have to live with 1/6th of our current family income and probably live in a crappy apartment with 2-3 kids we could probably barely support.

            I don’t think he minds feminism.

          • MaineJen

            Well, on a population basis, a couple needs only to have 2 children to maintain the current population level.

            Given that we’re already overcrowding the planet, I would think that population maintenance/reduction would be of benefit to everyone.

            And according to you, as long as we “raise them right,” we’ll be “on the right track.” So what’s the issue?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank You MaineJen, for being serious.

            Problem being is that it takes 2.1 per couple to sustain population.
            Today, in the Western World it is more like 1,4 – 1.6. Worse even is that these numbers are based on everybody alive today. If You go on to the next generation, the numbers are declining.
            So, we are a dying population.

            If You research the UN statistics, You will have my claims conformed.

          • MaineJen

            Yeah…if you look at only western countries.

            1.4-1.6 is not the population growth rate in countries where women do not have access to birth control.

            And again…why is this a problem? Overpopulation is bad.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            According to UN, there is no risk for overpopulation. Turnaround will be approx 9 bill inhabitants, 2080 – 2090.
            Thereafter, who knows? May be 3 billion? May be less.

          • Azuran

            You do realize that this approximation takes into account the actual current birth rates. If we were to follow your advice, and just start having more and more kids, that number will rise.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I really hope so. But in our current environment, that is not going to happen, without some serious rethinking.

          • Gæst

            Lorty, this makes no sense. Yes, there are places on Earth with negative population growth. But overall population growth is not declining. Then there’s also the fact that should we somehow truly need to ramp up population group in the future, well, the women of childbearing age at that time can choose to have an average of four or more children. It’s not a particularly delicate balance we need to strike in order to avoid species annihilation. The bigger danger to humans is overpopulation.

          • MaineJen

            Tread lightly, Bofa…it seems we have a “Pizzagate” true believer here. He may not be capable of rational argument.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Trying to steal my argument. Bad move.

        • LibrarianSarah

          Why do you keep randomly capitalizing the words “you” and “your?” Do you realize that they are not a proper nouns?

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            It is because I belong to a generation, that was teached “proper english” at school.

            Many, many moons ago ,-)

          • LibrarianSarah

            Are you a native English speaker? Because capitalizing “you” is not something I have ever heard of even in the most formal of writing in either the United States or Canada.

            The only thing similar that I can think of is the capitalization of pronouns when referring to God or a monarch. So whoever taught you “proper English” (you do capitalize the word English), was not actually teaching you English in a way that is use by most native English speakers.

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            I am sure You are correct, but this is what I learned at school in Norway.

            Being 68 years old, it probably is too late to claim a refund….

          • N

            Perhaps your teacher(s) mixed English with German. In German there is a polite form to adress people. It is not “du” (you) but “Sie”. And it is written with capital S. In my school years here in the western middle of Europe, we did not learn to capitalize you in the middle of a sentence. That said, I know my English is far from perfect either….

          • Dagfinn Klausen

            Thank you N. I checked it today, and you are absolutely correct. I will from now on be using small y´s ,-)

    • Science Stops Self-delusion

      Troll!

      Women want autonomy over their own bodies, and equal opportunity.

      More powerful men (in other words, TPTB) HATE FEMINISM. Sexist attitudes increase as you go up the social ladder. Oops! Did that pop your paranoid fantasy theory?

  • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

    I would say Kellyanne Conjob is a quisling. She enjoys the freedoms gained from the hard work of suffragettes & feminists, but happily stabs those same people in the back for special privileges from men & fame.

    “just because you’re a woman does not mean everything you do is feminism” ~quote from somewhere i can’t remember

  • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

    I agree Kellyanne Conway benefits from feminism, and if any of the things listed above were to be taken from her she would not be happy, but I’m not sure I agree that fact or the list above makes her a feminist (or makes any man a feminist). It seems like a low bar. I think feminism requires you are actively FOR women. Also I believe Conway knows what to say that will go over well with the majority of Trump supporters/Republicans. I can’t imagine any woman in the Republican Party openly talking about being a feminist without paying a price.

  • Gæst

    Our choices (everyone’s, men, women, children, everyone) are constrained by our circumstances.

  • J.B.
  • Merrie

    There needs to be some shorthand term for “woman who benefits from the gains of feminism but is too clueless to recognize it”. Perhaps we should call such a woman a kellyanne?

    • Sue

      Good point!

      It’s hard to understand why anyone would think it beneficial to avoid the term “feminist” – which is like being anti-racist.

      Do you believe that males and females should have equal human rights? Then you’re a feminist.

      • Who?

        Some of our deniers consider equal but different to be a thing-so white guys in suits get all the money and power, because they are so good at those things (http://theagevsheraldsun.tumblr.com/post/33224765845/16-quotes-from-tony-abbott-to-remind-you-why-he). Numbers 5 and 6 cover the general position off nicely.

        Whereas the women get the stuff they are good at-working for no financial gain caring for their families, working in low paid jobs which are super important but unfortunately don’t earn much ie childcare. And when this point is gently raised-one wouldn’t want to be perceived as nasty, or bossy, after all-we hear all about how the men do the hard dirty dangerous jobs and get no thanks.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        When I get a chance, I’ll post a link to the billboard in NC. Now THAT’S not feminist.

        • Cody

          Wow. Just wow.

        • Roadstergal

          I mean, we can _start_ with sexist, and keep going from there…

        • Sean Jungian

          Yikes. Reinforcing toxic masculinity and lopsided gender roles one billboard at a time?

        • Merrie

          I clearly am not a “real woman” nor my husband a “real man”, as I married someone with a third of my earning power who subsequently lost his job and is now a stay-at-home dad.

          On the other hand, I had two unmedicated vaginal births and exclusively breastfed. So maybe I am a “real woman” after all. Although the NCB crowd would still dock me points for working. So I guess I can’t win.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      Hey, all Kellyanne is saying is that she is not a straw-feminist.

  • Deborah

    From my vantage point over here in Australia, I look at Kellyanne Conway, watch her interviews and how she deals with the press, and I can’t help feeling sorry for her. I wonder if she knows how much of a puppet she is – a token gesture of having a woman in the administration who really has no power at all except to constantly refer to Trump as The President. I don’t think she has any clue that she is being used by the administration for the appearance of having a woman in a place of influence in the party. In reality, the only influence she has is on weak women who don’t mind having a misogynistic, dictatorial pig of a man ruling over them and their country.

    • Who?

      I’m in Oz as well, so I do know what you mean, but I’m saving my sympathy for people with no healthcare.

      Life is choice. The group she influences is big, some are rich, some are powerful. She’s making choices, from endorsing dodgy workwear through to simpering about her boss’ reticence to tell her off about it.

      All we need to know about KC and her values is on display every time she opens her mouth.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        She’s not a puppet, she’s an actor playing a role. She doesn’t have to believe anything she says, she just says it. That’s how she can turn from Ted Cruz to Donald Trump without batting an eye

        • J.B.

          I don’t really think she’s acting. I think she believes some pretty horrible things. Now the specific Trump splaining might be acting, but it’s acting as a villain.

          • Roadstergal

            I agree with you. She honestly believes horrible things, and she’s an actor playing a part – much of which is improve (‘alternative facts’).

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            If she so strongly believes what she says, how could she pivot from being Ted Cruz’s attack dog on Trump to being Trump’s mouthpiece so easily?

            I don’t see any reason to think she believes any of it.

    • MaineJen

      And she will be the *first* one thrown under the bus…in fact, she already is being thrown under the bus. It’s obvious they don’t keep her in the loop when it comes to any important decisions, as everything she says is immediately contradicted by the Orange One himself.

      • Sean Jungian

        I recall reading that her office is on the second floor and staffers found it laughable to think Trump would ever climb the stairs to get her take on anything. She’s a tool, and he’s using her. I think she knows it, too. I don’t feel sorry for her in the least.

        • MaineJen

          My sympathy for anyone involved with this whole debacle has long flown the coop. Along with my respect for them.

          • Sean Jungian

            I’m always pretty leery about excusing womens’ poor behavior based on them being “dupes” or “abused” or otherwise not fully grown, responsible adults. I said the same thing about Melania. Kellyanne is well aware of what she’s doing and she’s talented at it. I condemn her for using her abilities to get out a deplorable message.

        • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

          I agree that she knows it. Like so many around Trump she’s sold her soul.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Hey, it’s a job.

            I stick with my hypothesis: she’s just acting. It’s all just a job, and she will say whatever script they give her.

            There is no reason to think that she believes anything she says.

  • Cody

    I disagree that the pursuit of individual goals makes one a feminist. Yes, Kellyanne owes her position to feminism but that doesn’t make her a feminist. Her own ambition (and that of the administration she represents) will cost working class women an awful lot. IMO a feminist doesn’t exploit other women in that way. If you are the CEO of a corporation that exploits women workers, you are also not a feminist; you are a woman benefiting from a misogynist corporate structure.

    • MaineJen

      But it kills me that she’s specifically denouncing the feminists who *made it possible* for her to pursue her individual goals in the first place. It just seems…willfully perverse.

      • Cody

        I feel the same way. This isn’t unique though. I’ve met all kinds of women who denounce feminism while benefiting from a system that only exists because feminists have worked so damn hard.

        It really endears them to the boys though!

        • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

          Ah yes the Chill Girl phenomenon, “I’m not like those other women, I can hang with the boys! And when they make sexist, racist comments I can prove I’m cool by laughing alone with them! The guys let me into their little club and that makes me special! not like those other women!” Yay internalized misogyny /barf

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/15/signs-youre-not-chill_n_7063750.html

          • Sean Jungian

            See also: “Gosh, I don’t even HAVE any women friends! All my friends are guys. They’re just EASIER to deal with!”.

            Barf.

          • Cody

            I just tried to upvote this about 25 times, but alas I was limited to one.

          • But … most of my friends are guys. I try to make women friends, but they’re all out of town 🙁 I’m into really nerdy pursuits and don’t generally make friends very easily anyways, so finding a woman friend when women are >20% of the population where I hang out is hard.

          • Sean Jungian

            I’ve had times in my life when my closest friends were men. But I’ve always had women friends as well.

            I guess if they’re less than 20% of where you are, but honestly, I find it kind of suspect. Still, you don’t need MY approval!

            Usually the women who say this are women who feel very competitive against other women and do not seek out friendships with them, preferring to be the “pet” of a group of guys. I’m not saying that’s your case, but it is for the “Cool Girl” group we’re talking about. They actively eschew friendships with other women as somehow being (more full of drama, more full of head games, etc. etc. insert ugly stereotype about women here).

          • Oh, that. I know what you’re talking about, but no, that’s not the situation. I want female friends! I like my guy friends fine, of course, but it’s just not the same.

          • Cody

            I don’t think that’s the same as saying “I’m only friends with guys, girls are too much drama.” FYI, when you say that quote out loud you have to use a voice that is somewhere in between vocal fry and “I have cotton balls in my mouth”.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            There’s nothing wrong with that! It’s the people who somehow think they are better, cooler, special, because they are the only women in a group of men that irritate me. Plus the gender essentialism, , like ALL women or men are any one way. My sister loves crafting and scrap-booking, she also loves her hockey team and is pretty intimidating on the ice! hobbies and pursuits aren’t inherently gendered but a lot of people seem to want them to be.

          • Roadstergal

            Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with having a bunch of guy friends – but making a Thing of it…

          • Cody

            Bingo!

  • fishcake

    Can lizards be feminists, though?

    • Spamamander, pro fun ruiner

      That’s rather insulting to lizards, that comparison.

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      We Iguana People are all feminists

  • myrewyn

    GOOD GOD can we devise some sort of electric shock system for whenever someone says “pro abortion”? NOBODY is pro abortion.

    • Steph858

      Ironically, if anyone is pro-abortion, it would be members of the far-right. Those neo-Nazis love them some eugenics programmes.

    • Petticoat Philosopher

      I am. I am pro-abortion. I only ever say that if I want to be deliberately flippant and contrarian but sometimes I do want to do that to make a point. Pro-choice people have been on the defensive for years saying “Heavens, NO! We are not pro-abortion! Abortion rights are necessary but of course we know abortion is terrible!”

      Bullshit. Abortion is not terrible. Safe, legal abortion has saved many women’s lives and vastly improved the lives of many other women–and those of their children too. I’m a fan. Is it pleasant? I gather not. I spent the day with my best friend after she had one and it most certainly did not seem like something one would want to do recrreationally, whatever conservatives claim. My appendectomy wasn’t particular pleasant either but it also saved me from dying an untimely and entirely preventable death. I am pro-appendectomy! I am pro-abortion in the same way. In the sense that safe abortion is medical innovation that, like many other medical innovations, has improved the condition of humanity.

      And sure there are some women who find abortion very emotionally difficult, although it isn’t the majority. And of course, abortion does sometimes happen under tragic circumstances, like if a fetus is too defective to survive outside the womb or will result in a baby that will live a very short and painful life. But in those cases, abortion is still a better alternative to even bigger problems, or it wouldn’t be happening. The option of abortion of wanted pregnancies that can’t result in healthy, living children allows women who have had something terrible happen to to them the agency to deal with that reality in the way that they see fit. It’s a good thing. It just sucks that things can go so terribly wrong with pregnancy. But that’s the tragedy, not the abortion.

      So yeah, I don’t usually go around calling myself pro-abortion because I don’t feel like dealing with all the blowback that would come with it. And I also think that putting the issue of choice front-and-center in the language we use is important. But yeah, I’m pro-abortion. I’m glad it exists.

      • myrewyn

        I agree with you but I still don’t consider it “pro” abortion. It’s just a thing that exists for a reason but not like “oh joy, abortion!” When conservatives call it pro abortion it sounds like we are gleeful about it or something and I’m just… not.

        • Petticoat Philosopher

          But my point is that there are a whole lot of medical procedures that don’t particularly inspire mirth but that we would not hesitate to say we are unequivocally in favor of. Nobody’s like “Oh joy, heart surgery!” either but if you asked most people if they are pro-heart surgery, they’d probably say yes without hesitating, because it saves and improves lives. Certainly they would not say “Oh no, I am not pro-heart surgery! Heart surgery is a terrible thing and it’s terrible that anyone should ever need it! But it’s sadly necessary for it to be accessible.”

          Yeah, of course heart surgery sucks and of course nobody wants to be in a position to need it. But people are also unequivocally grateful for it. It sucks to be in a position to need an abortion too but most of medicine exists to solve problems that bad luck or our bodies and environments create. Abortion is no different.

          • myrewyn

            I still think we are totally in agreement on abortion, just feeling the words in a subtly different way. I know there are some people who do think abortion is a terrible thing but want to stay out of other people’s business about it… I’m not one of them. I’m very glad it exists, just like heart surgery and c sections and anti depressants and other such things that improve quality of life.

          • Petticoat Philosopher

            Oh, I definitely see that we’re in agreement about the issue itself. I just think the words really do matter. I don’t really think it serves us to bend over backwards to assure people that no siree Bob, we aren’t pro-abortion, not us, abortion is terrible! Because I think that ultimately dignifies the anti-abortion crowd’s claims that there are women who think getting an abortion is a fun weekend lark and people out there rubbing their hands together with glee, trying to think of ways to make abortion more common because they are just so evil. And that’s ridiculous. It’s as ridiculous as thinking that being pro-heart surgery means you want people to have heart disease. And we should just refuse to engage it by getting all defensive. Of course I’m not pro-the-reasons-women-need-abortions, any more than I am pro-the-reasons-people-need-any-kind-of-medical-intervention. Of course I’m not happy about the fact that people get sick or injured and have unplanned, dangerous, or doomed pregnancies. I shouldn’t have to prove that by carrying on about how terrible I know abortion is, any more than I should have to carry on about how terrible any no-fun but necessary medical procedure is. And I’m not going to. I will continue to identify myself as pro-choice but I have no problem with anyone saying I am pro-abortion, any more than I have a problem with someone saying that I’m pro-appendectomy. It’s true, I am.

          • Who?

            It’s like saying hammers are terrible because occasionally someone gets beaten to death with one.

            Spontaneous abortion is what doctors call a miscarriage. Abortion is a medical or surgical procedure. Forcing a person to have one is disrespectful and would be wrong, just as forcing a blood transfusion or appendectomy would be.

            But if a person, fully informed, chooses an abortion, and the medical consensus is that it is safe to perform, then those who oppose can sit quietly for a bit, and perhaps craft some sex ed to help it not happen in future.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            It’s the “fully informed” part that I have a problem with. A lot of anti-choice politicians get laws passed that are supposedly to make sure the pregnant person is “full informed” before she can get an abortion. But they are really just designed to make abortion more difficult to obtain and more expensive.

          • myrewyn

            Heh. And like the lactivist over on the other post who wants new moms to be “fully informed” about feeding choices by making sure nobody ever talks about formula.

      • Who?

        I like to refer to anti-abortionist people as ‘forced birthers’. Which does cut to the chase. It’s also a great lead in to the conversation about what, exactly, the practical ramifications of the existence of a bunch of unplanned children whose mothers can’t or won’t care for them.

      • rh1985

        I identify more as “pro choice” rather than “pro abortion” because I think the loss of the potential life is unfortunate, but that legally, the woman’s bodily autonomy should come first because it has no way to survive without her. I’d be happy if abortions were reduced through better access to birth control, but I don’t have any interest in banning the procedure.

      • anh

        I also call myself pro-abortion. It’s a medical procedure that has saved many lives, physically and mentally. For many many many women it is obviously the best choice.

      • Amy

        I’m with you. I’m pro-abortion the way I’m pro-chemotherapy and pro-c-section. They’re lifesavers. What I wish didn’t exist is the NEED for abortion (unwanted pregnancies and wanted pregnancies that go horribly wrong), chemotherapy (cancer), and c-sections (complications in pregnancy and childbirth).

      • Sean Jungian

        I’m pro-abortion. I’ve had an abortion. I’m glad it was accessible, and legal.

        Did it save my life? No. I’m the cons worst nightmare, a single women whose birth control failed and had an abortion for convenience and because I didn’t want any more children.

        I have never regretted it for a moment, and in fact I rarely think about it except when it comes up in political discussions. I am all for ready, cheap access to abortions for any woman who wants one, for any reason.

        • Roadstergal

          That would definitely have been me had my BC failed in the past, and if it fails in the future.

          I still don’t consider myself pro-abortion any more than I would use the words ‘pro-chemotherapy’ or ‘pro-Csection’, to pick up on a comment below. There are procedures that are good and right in a given circumstance, but the overall ‘pro’ is just too reductionist.

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            I’m pro-abortion and pro C-section. they are valuable medical procedures that I am happy to have available to people who need OR want them. I wish they both were more available and cheap/free.

  • Empress of the Iguana People

    As I mentioned in a post to one of my not-so-liberal relatives, there are nuts in every group. …This could qualify for both the man-haters and Conway

    • Roadstergal

      Yup, you can find some Facebook-post-worthy crazies in every movement. The relevant question is always more about the percentage in the movement overall, and in the positions of power.

    • Petticoat Philosopher

      But even the “there are always a few nuts” response doesn’t really satisfy me because it still implies that hating men is a feminist thing, just not a standard feminist thing. But I do know women who hate men, or are at least very hostile towards them, and they are mostly women who would never call themselves feminists. They tend to be women who have very gender essentialist views and just believe that men are inherently selfish, violent, domineering etc. I think feminism makes women less likely to hate men because it provides an analytical framework for understanding that the problem isn’t men per se, it’s toxic masculinity and patriarchy. And men behaving in ways that are influenced by these things is not inevitable or some how biologically pre-ordained. Men can be better and some already are.

      And then there are the people, men and women, who might not claim to hate men but certainly don’t seem to think very highly of their moral capacities. “All men talk about women like Donald Trump” sounds way more man-hating to me than pretty much anything I’ve ever heard a feminist say.

      • Amy

        So much this! A lot of people don’t get that feminism helps men, too, by breaking down gender barriers and promoting a world where people can express themselves freely and pursue their goals without being shamed.

        And, um……birth control benefits heterosexual men as much as it benefits women.

        • J.B.

          My husband really really wants sex to be consequence free.

      • Sean Jungian

        Well there most certainly is (or perhaps more accurately, was) a fringe element of feminism that is essentially female supremacism. A lot of the bs people ascribe to mainstream feminism came from sources such as Andrea Dworkin, an early feminist thinker, who posited that ALL sex with men was rape, Valerie Solanas’ “SCUM Manifesto”, and early ideas such as political lesbianism. We also have the abominable TERFs who get a certain amount of mainstream publicity. People who fear and hate feminism often mis-ascribe feminism’s goals as being aligned with these more fringey theories.

  • Roadstergal

    “I look at myself as a product of my choices, not a victim of my circumstances.”

    That nasty victim-blaming shit the right pulls. She’s not a victim of her circumstances, she’s a beneficiary of her wealthy, upper-class, white upbringing, and she will never admit that these are massive advantages, genitals or not.

    I will say that one small way in which she is not a classic feminist is that sexual assault isn’t a deal-breaker for her in a boss.

    • myrewyn

      That sentence made me rage-y.

    • J.B.

      I’m a product of my choices, and of the circumstances that helped me go to college etc. That doesn’t make me love the higher salaries given to male coworkers who are less effective.

    • Sean Jungian

      “I look at myself as a product of my choices, not a victim of my circumstances.”

      Ah, the ol’ Bootstrap philosophy the right is always claiming. So, you didn’t gain any advantages as all from the women before you who protested and marched to achieve basic human rights? Its ALLLL you, right?

      A lot of my red-state neighbors also like to claim that they “did it all themselves!” and “never took any handouts”! To which I always reply, so, you don’t use the roads and bridges paid for by our taxes? Neither you nor anyone in your family ever got a small business loan? Our military doesn’t protect you and your family? You didn’t go to public school and university (our only real options in our area)? Your children don’t?”

      A lot of my neighbors are farmers, Norwegian-American farmers actually. Their families settled in this area in the 1870s, I like to point out that the reason their families came here is because of the Homestead Act, basically free land for whomever improved it. So that inheritance you’re getting – your family’s land, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars – you worked for that, right? No hand outs? No crop subsidies or government-sponsored crop insurance (which, I always point out, benefit me as a consumer as well).

      Ah, the blindness. It’s like anti-vaxxers who don’t see any people sick or dying from VPDs anymore – that must mean we don’t need them, right? Same with feminism – I’m fine, I’m a (white or otherwise privileged) woman, we don’t need that man-hatin’ feminism anymore, right?

    • Mel

      I had a …. moment about two months ago with a close family member on my husband’s side of the family.

      Since Spawn has been in the hospital for more than 30 days, he qualifies for Medicare with no income-based requirements. I was amazingly grateful for that because he’s going to be a multi-million dollar baby. A different family member was out with us and voiced her concern that my husband and I would be bankrupted by Spawn’s medical expenses. I explained about Medicare. The woman who asked shared my gratitude that we’d not be bankrupted.

      The other family member grumbled something about “the cost is going to be spread over all the members of the insurance” in a bitchy tone of voice. “Yes.” was my measured reply in a “drop it” tone of voice. She groused, “That’s all the people in the US”.

      And I went for blood- “Yes, I know how taxes work. Let me see if you get how insurance works. You and I are on the same insurance plan through the farm. If the farm insurance plan has to cover Spawn’s astronomical medical bills, YOUR premiums will go up by some ungodly sum starting next year. Now, which do you want – me accepting Medicare for Spawn and showing gratitude for not being bankrupted OR me refusing Medicare for Spawn and you get astronomical premiums on your insurance for the rest of your life? Which do you want?”

      She replied quietly “Medicare.”

      That was a good choice because the next step in “Mel’s Little Moment” was that I was going to poll each of the people in the local diner we were in if they were OK with a tenth of one cent of their taxes going to pay for the medical care that was keeping my son alive and keeping my husband and I from being bankrupted. When they said, “Yes” – either because they were good people or because they were afraid of me going ape-shit, I was going to ask them to clarify that with Spawn’s close relative who was not sure that that was a good use of taxes.

      It’s a good thing you can choose your friends. That keeps you from killing family.

      • myrewyn

        This is timely. We are dealing with estate issues as my father is ill and assets are being sold and my usually non confrontational family is being total raging assholes. I’ll stop short of saying I’m feeling murderous (that would look bad if anyone turns up dead) but this will be the end of our family relationship. Sorry for the OT rant, but I swear if a panic attack sends me into early labor there will be hell to pay.

        • Who?

          Like the song says, money changes everything. My husband and his siblings worked v hard to maintain their relationship during the distribution of their parents’ estate, having watched their father’s sibling relationships implode over his parents assets.

          • myrewyn

            The frustrating thing is I don’t want or need anything. I’ve even told them to remove me from the will if it will also remove me from the stress but one of my brothers is just a bully and isn’t happy unless he’s making someone else miserable. Family sucks.

        • Empress of the Iguana People

          Yeah, it’s a tough thing. There wasn’t any money when Mom died, but one of her brothers still yelled at me. For the first time in my 33 years. (I wanted to see my mother alone and to send my best friend with my brother, only 2 guests were allowed at a time. But I wasn’t able to express this need. My uncle also didn’t realize that *Mom* thought of my bf as a 4th kid, and that it wasn’t just me)

        • Sean Jungian

          These are the stories that kind of make me almost grateful that I come from a poor family.

          Out here where I live there are multi-million-dollar family farms that have to be divided up between 4, 5, 6 or more kids, and it seems to ALWAYS result in terrible can-never-take-back-words and resentments. It festers like an open sore for generations.

          All my dad had was a life insurance policy that he split 3 ways between me and my brother and sister. My mom had nothing when she died except a vehicle. When I die I will leave my only child a life insurance benefit and a house.

      • myrewyn

        And I’m sorry your family member was an ass about the Medicare coverage. That sucks.

      • J.B.

        I’m sorry that happened, but you kicked a$$, and we can hope this family member will have more empathy for others from now on.

      • MaineJen

        SOmebody *ACTUALLY* bitched to you about his tax money going to keep your son alive???

        Hold. Mama. Bear. BACK

        • kilda

          seriously, I’ve heard of people complaining about people benefiting from medicare/welfare/etc who they think are “lazy” or “undeserving” but who the heck looks at a premature baby fighting for his life and says “that kid is mooching off the taxpayers”?