Kate Tietje, Modern Alternative Mama, continues to publicly plumb the depths of parenting insensitivity.
She recently posted this about her oldest child and only daughter:
Everyone has made SOME choice in parenting that they wouldn’t do again. My oldest is 9 (girl) and knows that she was born in a hospital and we ate junk food a lot… She was a little upset around 7 when she kind of figured it out, that things were different for her than her brothers. But now … she knows you know better and do better…
Apparently not.
[pullquote align=”right” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]She wrote, for the entire world to see, that it wouldn’t be so bad if her daughter died so long as her son survived.[/pullquote]
Kate seems to have forgotten the most monumental parenting mistake she ever made. Six years ago, when her daughter was only 3, her son was todder and she was expecting her third child, she wrote the ugliest parenting post I have ever read. It put her on the map, garnering national attention.
It was a vicious attack on her little girl, titled Mom Confession: I Think I Love My Son a Little Bit More, published on the parenting website Babble. The title, while bad enough, does not convey the full repulsiveness of the piece.
There are moments – in my least sane and darkest thoughts – when I think it wouldn’t be so bad if I lost my daughter, as long as I never had to lose my son (assuming crazy, dire, insane circumstances that would never actually occur in real life). I know that sounds completely awful and truly crazy.
Indeed, Tietje understands precisely how awful it sounds and what it implies. But rather than seek psychological treatment, she seeks a “do over” with another daughter.
I know that if I don’t do something about this, and try to get over my weird hang ups and actually be the parent, that she will grow up to accuse me of these things: “Why were you so tough on me? Why were you so impatient? Why didn’t you hold me and love me like you did him?” And I could answer in a thousand ways …because he wanted me to hold him more, because he is more sensitive, because he is younger…because he needed me more…. It’s not good enough. Because she would be right, and I would have nothing that I could say. I completely accept that the worst of her behavior (which is thankfully not too often) is entirely my fault. It’s my fault for quietly preferring her brother, for ignoring her needs, for pushing her to the side and expecting too much of her. I secretly hope that this new baby is a girl. I want to start over with a little girl now that I’m healthy and an experienced parent. I want to love her and cherish her as she should be. And maybe…I can learn to love and parent a girl properly, and I can use this to change and parent my older daughter better, too. Maybe I can save us all before it’s too late.
In the outcry that followed, Tietje repeatedly pointed to the qualifiers with which she hemmed her statement, but no one was fooled. She had written, for the entire world to see, that it wouldn’t be so bad if her daughter died so long as her son survived. And in a subsequent post (after having edited the first paragraph above out of the original piece) she tried to minimize what she had done, claiming that many parents feel the same way. Perhaps they do, but they have enough self awareness to keep themselves from blaring it in public.
Although most commentors did not name it as such, they correctly interpreted Tietje’s feelings about her daughter (as well as her decision to air those feelings publicly) as a form of emotional abuse. Though Tietje then and now tried to blame her inappropriate feelings on her experience when her daughter was born, she provided ample evidence that the birth was an excuse, not the real reason for her enmity:
1. Her identification with her daughter and her distaste for specific characteristics that they share:
And she’s a very independent, challenging little girl. She wants things her way, all the time. And she acts out a lot by being extremely rude and defiant when she’s unhappy. Okay, so, she’s me. I know that. It doesn’t make it any easier. (my emphasis)
2. Tietje acknowledged that she treated her daughter the way her mother treated her.
… [A]s a few of you guessed, she did favor my brother (and my father favored me). My brother and I both knew it, talked about it. In my teen years, I even kind of understood it. I still didn’t find it fair. She was the adult, after all…shouldn’t she get past that?
3. Despite recognizing that her mother treated her poorly, Tietje seemed to be unable to make the connection that she is copying her mother’s behavior. Rather than recognizing that her feelings of dissatisfaction with her daughter originate within herself, Tietje blames those feelings on her daughter or on outside circumstances. It’s her daughter’s birth; it’s her daughter’s a “bad” personality; it’s because her daughter’s “bad” personality contrasts so sharply with her son’s “good” personality. It’s everything and everyone but Tietje herself.
4. Tietje almost connected the dots.
In speaking about her mother Tietje wrote: “I still didn’t find it fair. She was the adult, after all…shouldn’t she get past that?”
In speaking about the way that her daughter will view her in the future, Tieje used almost the exact same words: “But I know that if I don’t do something about this, … and actually be the parent, that she will grow up to accuse me …”
5. But Tieje could not make the final leap, and when others made it for her, by pointing out that her behavior was inappropriate and cruel, Tietje retreated into a myriad of defense mechanisms in a subsequent post, I’m Not a Perfect Mother.
Insults: “Instead of reading what you know to be a tiny, tiny snapshot into my life and condemning in nasty, insane voices — yes, INSANE — why don’t you understand that you, like everyone, have also had crazy thoughts. And then just walk away. Got it?”
Denial: “This in no way means that we love her less” even though the TITLE of her first piece was “I think I love my son a little bit more.”
Projection: “It probably struck a little too close to home for many of you…you’ve had those same thoughts … found it obscene to see your own worst thoughts out in the light of day …”
Minimization: “I’m not a perfect mother. There, I said it.”
Told repeatedly to seek psychological counseling, Tietje insisted that the doesn’t need to explore her feelings about herself and her own mother. Not surprisingly both Tietje’s ugly behavior and her denial are continuing.
It looks like she basically considers her daughter a failed experiment.
This woman is incomprehensibly vile.
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was thinking about how the I-love-my-daughter-more post reveals dysfunction in her relationship with all of her children, not just the despised daughter. Namely: Preference makes perfect sense when we’re judging something in terms of utility. I have a favorite eye, because one works better than the other. If someone was going to poke an eye out, I would hope it would be the eye with astigmatism.
My children are not my eye, or arm, or leg, but my children. People. Ends in themselves, as Kant would say. Sometimes they’re useful, in varying degrees, but conceptualizing my relationship with them in terms of utility is just bonkers.
Well put
OT: Dr. Amy, what are your thoughts on this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6o1roc/bacteria_in_a_oneyearolds_poop_can_predict_how_he/
I’m specifically curious about the claim that breastmilk reduces gut bacteria diversity, which is associated with higher cognitive performance. e.g. this comment from DKavey (in the 2nd main comment thread down, started by Stunt_Jesus):
“The intestinal collection of bacteria (microbiome) in exclusively breastfed
children is dominated (up to ~80%) by bifidobacteria. Bif are lactic
acid bacteria which acidify the colon, which makes components of
breastmilk (lactoferrin and lysozyme) more effective at preventing the
colonisation and growth of Gram-negative bacteria.
The sugars (oligosaccharides) act as both, anti-infectives against
pathogens by acting as decoys of the cell surface sugars, and as
growth/colonisation promoting factors for beneficial bacteria. There are
over 200 unique sugar structures in human breastmilk which can’t yet be
replicated in the lab to add to infant formula.
Breastmilk also contains a source of sialic acid (either free or
attached) which are also beneficial for neurological development in
children. Other things leading to increased bacterial diversity is the means of
delivery (c-section or natural), formula feeding, and the early
administration of antibiotics. Source: PhD on the effects of breastmilk sugars on bacterial colonisation of the infant GI tract.”
My understanding is that the large-scale sibling studies they’ve done have shown no difference between breast- and formula-fed babies, but things like this make me wonder…
I can’t access the full text, which means I don’t know how large the performance differences are, or what kind of differences in microbiome they are talking about.
The abstract doesn’t mention birth or breastfeeding, so I don’t know whether there is a relationship between breastfeeding and having the apparently better microbiome. Even if there is, there’s no mention of confounding variables.
What we do know is that microbiome is never fixed. Differences due to delivery method disappear by about 5 days old. Differences due to feeding method decrease when solids are introduced and pretty much disappear at weaning. In older children and adults, the most important factors in your microbiome are whether you’ve had antibiotics lately, your diet, and the microbiomes of your close contacts, especially household members.
Interesting? Yes. Proof of the superiority of breast milk? That’s a pretty big stretch.
They had basically a one-sentence mention of BF in the Discussion. It wasn’t part of the study protocol. It was basically microbiome at 1YO vs some select measurements of smarts at 2YO. Also, it looks like ethnicity of parents had a substantial effect (not surprising – genetics (HLA) and environment (stuff you have around the house, food you eat) both heavily influence the microbiome, and have a lot of SES and parenting style confounders with measurements of ‘intelligence.’
It was overwhelmingly stats – I can send you a copy if you have a burner email you don’t mind sharing.
My dad is currently on chemo, but he has venous ulcers that keep getting infected and has had multiple courses of antibiotics. I told him if he gets gut side effects it’ll be ok because we can just do a faecal transplant from mum to him because they’ll share the same bacteria. He refused to believe such a thing existed, so I had great fun showing him references. Mum says she wouldn’t mind, because the donation sounds a lot easier than being the recipient!
There’s data to show Helicobacter pylori infection throughout families-initially gastric ulcers were thought to have a familial prediliction but it’s more likely that close contact enables infection and re-infection between family members.
One of my favourite cases was many years ago when I got sent a placenta with the clinical history ‘severe indigestion and heartburn all through pregnancy, ?Helicobacter infection’, Well, possibly, but the wrong specimen to send!
As one of the commenters says, “Fun fact: the gut microbial composition is quite diverse between babies, around 3-4 years of age the becterial communities become more similar between people.”
Not everything is clinically and medically relevant. If large scale studies haven’t been able to measure a difference, then there probably isn’t one. We don’t need to know the mechanism of breastmilk ‘benefits’ to be able to measure them. A better understanding of microbiome isn’t going to lead to a suddenly measurable difference between breastfed and formula fed babies.
It’s funny how kids turn out to be people…with their own unique personalities, thoughts, desires, and opinions. Some people like this author don’t seem to grasp that and want little automatons that follow a rigid script they have created in their heads. Then the kid gets punished for refusing to follow a script they’ve never seen or agreed to.
“I never asked to be born” is the clichéd angsty teenage catchphrase, but here – well, this girl surely never asked to play the part of the villain in her mom’s martyr narrative. Never consented to such a role.
A role she’s been filling pretty much since her birth, if her mother is to be believed.
“It’s funny how kids turn out to be people…with their own unique personalities, thoughts, desires, and opinions.”
That’s been a source of humour over the last few weeks in my household. Eldest has decided that she would like her own room, and doesn’t mind the current paint colour (blood red) of the room she’ll be moving into. As ridiculous as it sounds, I do mind because it doesn’t fit her personal style so I’m painting to suit her. Regardless of my personal style, she is not and probably never will be a goth, and it would be wrong to force that on her.
What really upsets me the most is that, not only does her daughter truly notice this every day of her life, but that it’s all over the internet for the world to see and will always follow her. Maybe her daughter acts out the way she does BECAUSE of the treatment she gets from her “mother”. For her to acknowledge how her own mother affected her yet doesn’t understand why her daughter is hurt is truly delusional, denial, or both. If she does have another girl and showers her with the love and attention that the oldest always needed and deserved, this is going to hurt her daughter in more ways than she could ever imagine. I honestly feel so bad, so heartbroken, for her daughter. To have such a delusional, mentally unstable, cold hearted “mother”. I can only hope that her daughter can realize and learn to accept that this was never about/because of her. Its because of her piece of shit mom. She did nothing wrong. It was never her fault. Kate’s follow up post makes it even worse. The projection is insane. To try to claim that those who criticize her only hate themselves for having those same feelings is insane. I truly can’t believe that shes so dense as to not really understand why people are so upset and disgusted by her words.
And this is reason #127 why I can’t stand parents who post every event of their child’s day on the internet. I mention my daughter and what she is doing only in vague terms when I mention her at all. Granted she is an adult but even as a child it made me feel I was invading her privacy to post photos or information about what she was doing.
My relatives who post every detail of their kids potty training and temper tantrums drive me nuts. Do they not realize that the Internet is forever in many cases and these kids are starting school now, so sooner or later their friends are going to read these posts!? It’s like a nightmare version of when my mother would discuss embarrassing details of my life with her sisters and friends over coffee. It’s that feeling turned up to 11. I don’t get why parents don’t realize they don’t actually “own” their children.
This is why I’m careful of what I post. I posted a ton of pictures and lots of anecdotes when he was under two (because baby) but the older he gets the more cautious I am of what is posted. Few pictures, and no anecdotes, quotes or pictures that would shame him.
Also why I keep putting off his strong desire to become “A YouTuber!” because, despite the fact he is *sure* he won’t be embarrassed later, of course he will be. I’m trying to protect him from himself there… (he thinks YouTubers are celebrities on par with movie stars…)
Same here, right down to wanting a YouTube channel (Which is not happening here either for much the same reason). It’s not that they’re no longer cute, because they are awesome, it’s just that I don’t want it to be a source of humiliation or contention later on.
There are many things that I do not share about my kids online. And as they get older, they will have the final say in whether or not pictures and anecdotes are shared.
I’ll dig through “Criminal Minds” episodes later, but what happens if her baby-to-be is a girl? What happens to the nine-year-old outcast then?
If she’s lucky, she’ll just be ignored and if not, the abuse will accelerate/worsen. Regardless of the outcome, the poor kid is still stuck in an awful situation with at least one actively abusive parent as well as a negligent one.
she had a boy. hes starving. only 9 lbs at 6 weeks old
Jesus. What was his birth weight? Did she vlog the birth from out back in a pitched tent or anything? I’m kind of surprised she’s openly writing about her failed lactation attempt here. Seems like the type who would lie and say he’s a bouncing 14 lbs and sleeping through the night.
I hate mommy blogs. We’ve all thought things that would sound horrible if we said them out loud, much less shared them with the world. The difference between this lady and most of us is that she shared those horrible thoughts on her blog and now they’re part of her child’s “permanent internet record.” Hope she’s got a nice account set aside for all the therapy her kids will need down the line.
Yeah. I have to admit, I blog (my “audience” is maybe 20 people, mostly family), but I’d never, ever, ever put something out there that is going to make my babies feel unloved or “bad.”
God. Help. Her. When her daughter (not if, WHEN) finds that and figures it out. That poor child.
I guess her being home schooled (or unschooled) has at least one benefit. It would take at most 10 second before the other kids find out who her mother is and all the crap she wrote about her. The bullying would be endless…
This brings something to mind. When I was a teacher we’d frequently get new students in the middle of the year because they were removed from their parents and the foster family lived in a different school attendance area. Most of the time this was just a consequence of where the foster family lived. Sometimes, however, it was deliberate, to get a particular child away from a particular school when everybody knew about some bad situation and the child was being bullied. It’s easy to just change to a school in a neighborhood far away when it’s just stuff in person you’re protecting a kid from. How do you do that when the kids can just go online and see what your mother said about you?
I remember on a school trip in middle school, there was some drama between two girls, and I remember thinking it was like everything was happening at fast forward speed, because everyone was together all the time, no evening break to disengage from the peer social circle.
Now I worry that the social carousel never stops. I guess boarding schools have always been like that, but it still strikes me as unhealthy for kids to spend 100% of their time immersed in a social milieu defined by other dumb kids. (Hunter-gatherer groups don’t have their kids in environments full of dozens of kids their own age! It’s wildly unnatural!)
Boarding schools have an interesting social structure. My last three years of high school were at a boarding school. In some ways, yes, the social carousel never stops, in other ways there’s two separate sets of social rules; one in the classroom and one outside it. New students quickly learn how to behave in which environment. Perhaps my experience is different because as a school for the performing and visual arts that was run by a state university system in a joint program with an actual university, our student population was already primed to be a bit different than the average high school student. Or maybe not.
I’m gonna need some sunglasses to block the glare from all these white knights riding in.
Isn’t it amazing how they all drop in, leave one comment, and then don’t respond to any replies?
Who knows? Other parents might feel this way. They might find comfort or guidance in someone expressing it. I’m willing to entertain the idea that it is a piece worth writing.
That said, if you write something like this, you do it anonymously. You do that out of common human decency. You do not put your name or any identifying details on it because your need for fame doesn’t mean it’s okay to push your kid into the mud and walk over her back to get the spotlight.
I sometimes read something, now online, years ago it was usually in letters to the editor in a newspaper, that just makes me shake my head at why anyone would actual put such things in writing and broadcast it to a wide audience. Usually it’s saying something that you’d think they wouldn’t even say out loud to anyone but perhaps a therapist, but they actually put it out there in a venue that seeks the widest audience they have access to. It’s really incredible.
Tietje’s writing about her daughter is the worst of such things I’ve ever read. I feel terribly sorry for her daughter and hope she can get past this cycle of hate.
Heh.
“And she’s a very independent, challenging little girl. She wants things her way, all the time. And she acts out a lot by being extremely rude and defiant when she’s unhappy. Okay, so, she’s me. I know that. It doesn’t make it any easier.”
That’s what I say about my easier kid. I give her very firm limits and she gradually learns to more or less comply. Although her dad and I say often “She’s lucky she’s cute!” we love her fiercely and mostly get along.
My more challenging kid has the defiance in spades and it was really really stressful in our family. So we took her to therapy. Where she has been learning coping strategies. And we love her fiercely and mostly get along, with some additional parent training *and medication*.
It’s nothing less than emotional abuse, to make her daughter feel less-than because of her BIRTH, something she had no control over.
I mean…let me visit my darkest thoughts for a moment. The Sophie’s Choice moment. Honestly? I couldn’t choose. I couldn’t. I’d walk into that building right alongside BOTH my kids before I’d choose between them like that.
Not even in my darkest moments as a parent would I make a post like she did. Let alone two. And now, three.
Haven’t you heard? “Babies know how to be born”. This poor kid is going to put everything her mother believes together and conclude that her mother thinks she is responsible for her birth.
isn’t there some kooky blogger, not MAM, but another one who is perhaps from Australia? apparently she thinks her oldest child is stupid for not knowing how to be born and requiring a c-section
Are you thinking of the Milk Meg?? I don’t recall her having made comments like that but then I refuse to read her crap so it wouldn’t surprise me if she had….
no. The more I think of about it, she may have just been a very prolific commenter on birth pages/blogs. I could have sworn she’d swept in here at some point.
Very young children don’t – can’t – understand that other people are responsible for their safety, because very young children don’t yet have a theory of mind. So they blame themselves for events over which they had no control (the circumstances of their birth, their parents divorcing) or for perfectly normal behaviour that leads to injury because the parents failed to foresee something that the child couldn’t foresee.
It wasn’t until I had children of my own, and was diligently strapping them into highchairs, buggies, car seats etc. that I realised that I had not been to blame for falling out of my high chair when I was two. The way my mother had told the story, I had concluded it was my fault – standing up on a slippery wooden seat, wearing socks? Whatever was I thinking (at two!!)? And, of course, the fact that I was in shock and didn’t cry, until she heard me whimpering whenever I rolled onto my right shoulder when I was asleep that night, meant that it was my fault that she didn’t take me to the doctor until the following day. Even the way that she told me that I had broken my collar bone was something that I interpreted as my fault – I broke it, it wasn’t the entirely preventable fall that had broken it.
Unless she gets taken under the wing of a decent friend/teacher/mentor, that poor girl is doomed. I know children of narcissistic mothers who didn’t escape the self-blame until middle age.
“I know children of narcissistic mothers who didn’t escape the self-blame until middle age.”
*raises hand*
Still working on that one here. And I’m 41. I’m at the point where logically I know things aren’t my fault, but emotionally I can’t process that and believe it. This is an improvement. I’m getting there.
29 and still working on it too. We’ll get there!
One step at a time, yes?
One day it will just click. Then the emotions will align with the logic circuits and everything will feel right.
The problem is that one of the things that narcissists are very, very good at doing is making other people feel that they are to blame for every damn thing, isn’t it? The narcissist manipulates every situation so that they have plausible deniability “I didn’t mean it that way! Whatever makes you think I did?” They are charming on the face of it (especially in front of third parties) even as they are undermining your ability to trust your own judgement.
MrC is a saint, dealing with all my screwed up ways of thinking and helping me learn to “reset my normal meter”, as we’ve taken to calling it. He has specific phrases he uses to remind me that we’re just having a discussion and he’s not blaming and accusing me of stuff. It’s a work in progress right now.
Kate asserts that most parents have a favorite child. Okay, sure, probably most parents of multiple kids feel closer to one kid than another, because their personalities or interests mesh better, whatever. I know parents who admit this (privately, not in public forums using their names). The parents I know who feel this way:
1. Label it as a struggle, not a no-big-deal feeling.
2. Try to keep it under wraps as much as possible.
3. Truly love their kids equally and would be equally devastated if any of them died.
4. Try to find ways to develop a closer relationship with the child they feel some distance from–one-on-one time, taking time to figure out what makes their child tick, supporting their interests even if the parent doesn’t share them.
In other words, they make an effort to overcome something they correctly view as a challenge in their family. They DON’T pray for a do-over kid of the same gender, because that’s perhaps the sickest part of this whole post. I hope her sweet daughter will have others in her life to lift her up, though without the benefit of school, I know her odds are low.
Unfortunately, my grandfather did play favorites, and Mom wasn’t it. He was absolutely devastated when she died. He had a heart attack 4 days later and died.
Oh, I know plenty of others who play favorites in destructive ways like you describe. I’m sorry for your mom and others like her. I’m only saying that there are others I know who feel closer to one child than another but who deal with it in a healthier way than Kate. Kate’s way is truly terrible.
Yep. Dad had one but it was hard to tell until we were grown. I do wish he’d kept up the pretense. 🙁
I was convinced that one of my friends had a strong preference for her younger child because she was always talking about how Younger Child did such-and-such and reached X milestone earlier than her sibling. Then, one time, we had a longer conversation and I realised – reading between the lines – that she’s actually bursting with pride over Older Child and she takes special care to big up the things that Younger Child does well, to compensate for the fact that Older Child is probably going to be the “gifted and talented” one (both academically and on the playing field). I’m not sure that she’s got the balance right yet but she’s working her arse off to avoid favouring one over the other and to make sure that Younger Child gets recognition for being awesome in her own way.
I’ve seen parents (and I think authors, in books) note that many parents privately have a favorite child, particularly in reference to twins. I think in those contexts it’s about infants and bonding, so you might indeed bond with one twin first, but presumably with a little more time you bond with the second and it all evens out in the end.
I get having more affinity for one child. Both parents and child have their own personality, so it’s totally normal that parents will have different interaction with different child. Some will be very easy and others more challenging. It’s probably also easier to spend more time with a child if you share the same interest.
But having a preference over which one dies is just horrible and not normal.
Absolutely. But there are instances where it’s “no big deal” – it was that part of Emilie’s comment I was responding to.
I think it’s no big deal to have more affinity for one kid vs another, or to get along better with one vs the other, or to be more frustrated… etc. But then to take that to the next step, to _loving_ one more than the other… it’s not scientific at all, but to me, this feels like an important distinction.
Again, in the infant days I think it can take the form of loving one infant and feeling cold to the other – particularly in cases of one healthy infant and one medically fragile one. If it’s normal for a mother not to feel that deep, special love the moment their child is born (as we always says IS normal around here), then why is it not also normal for that sort of love to form at different times with different babies? I am in no way condoning what MAM is doing – she’s awful. But infants are sometimes hard to love from the moment you set eyes on them.
I “get along” better with my daughter than my son…because my son is *just like me.* Emotionally volatile, tends to overreact, tends to overthink stuff, prone to anxiety. He’s more high maintenance than his sister, who, like her dad, is more even tempered but also more sneaky. She will get into more trouble in a quiet 5 minutes, under the radar, than my son could in a noisy half hour.
However, I don’t love one more than the other. I just don’t. I’ve had to use different “tactics” with them over the years, but the love is the same.
I had three under three, followed by twins nine years later. I can truly say I don’t have a preference. Each one has their own personality, and presented different challenges growing up. I love them all equally, as I do my seven grandchildren, and I just do different things with each of them according to their preferences.
I once watched a mother changing her twins’ nappies. First bad sign: she ignored her toddler daughter completely during the process. I always involved my older children in baby care, so they felt included.
The first baby she changed was evidently the older twin – she kept up a constant stream of chat, as one does, calling him “My lovely oldest son” the whole time, and making a bit of a game of it.
The second one she changed swiftly and in complete silence. I was utterly shocked at the blatant favouritism, and the utter cruelty of displaying it carelessly in front of everyone. My twins didn’t even know which of them had been born first, until one of them overheard a conversation when they were eight, because I didn’t want any of my kids thinking that they could pull rank!
I have a friend who has twins, now grown. When they were little, she didn’t tell them which one was older, but eventually gave in. She said she wished she’d never done that; the older one did pull rank!
My stepdaughters are twins. The older one rubs that extra two minutes in her sister’s face pretty much every chance she gets. It’s done in loving jest now that they’re in their 30’s, but it did cause trouble when they were little.
That works if and only if the younger one lets you pull rank.
Love,
The older twin who was never able to use birth order as a perk…..
Yeah, this is kind of my thought as well. My kids are very different, and, consequently, I don’t love them the same. However, I don’t love one more than the other, just differently.
Mathematically, I’d say love is highly dimensional surface and you can’t put a value judgement on a comparison. It’s like trying to compare complex numbers. Which number is bigger, 4 + 3i or 3 – 4i? Sure, you can compare magnitudes (they are the same), but there is no that can be applied in multidimensional space.
That’s where I am, somewhere on the sphere of love…
I loved your complex number analogy for love 🙂
I have to admit I am now slightly jealous of your wife on account of the complex number analogy. All I get are physics and chemistry analogies.
Nerd alert! (You, too, Bofa.)
Yes, I’m sure you do love your children equally. I never said that ALL twin parents have this happen to them. But it is a commonly shared experience (if not entirely openly shared) and when someone brings it up, it’s not very supportive to write a very long comment about how *you* have twins and *you* have always loved them equally, with an added description of someone *treating* their twin infants very differently.
tl/dr: Yours is not the only legitimate experience in the world.
I think you are quite judgmental here. So what she didn’t bring her toddler into helping her change diapers? I never do it unless I run out of diapers or wipes. Secondly, if this was the only time you have seen this woman display this kind of “favoritism” then I would not think anything of it. She could have stopped talking because she started thinking about something or for many other reasons. You saw a snippet of someone’s life and none of it was something that would make me think it was utter cruelty to those children. My husband and I have preferred some of our children over the others at times. Sometimes, it is due to personality and a difficult stage and sometimes due to age. What is cruel is for this lady to openly state that she would not mind of one of her children died because she was damaged goods.
About half the time I change a diaper, I remember halfway through that I’m ‘supposed’ to be talking to my baby.
So yea, I’d go with ‘probably got distracted’
And I don’t think you are supposed to always include all your children in ever action you do with every single one of them.
I talk when I change my son’s diaper, but I’m an incessant chatterbox.
I wonder sometimes if he’d prefer an occasional “quiet” change…..
Sometimes, when I try to play with my daughter, she just rolls on her side, turning her back to me, and start sucking her thumb.
I had one kid get pissed beyond belief if I tried to talk or interact with him during diaper changes, and all holy hell would break lose if it lasted one second longer than he was willing to tolerate. Changing that child was an exercise in quiet efficiency. (For the sake of the child’s privacy, I’m not admitting which one it was.)
I think the thing that gets me most is what she said about being able to lose her daughter, as long as she didn’t lose her son. I could forgive her for the rest up to that point. We all have times we feel closer to one child than the other. We all have points where one child drives us to distraction. We all have periods where things just aren’t clicking with one kid or the other.
But in all those times, even when one kid is driving us nucking futs, the biggest fear we could ever imagine would be to lose one of our children. If I lost one child, even my love for the other one wouldn’t help me to go on. I would go on, because would have to, and the other child would need me, but it would not help the pain or the loss or the grief. It would give me a reason to hang on until I got a will of my own to live, but imagining either one of my children dying makes me fear how I would hang on. I can’t imagine thinking I could bear the loss of particular child as long as I had the other. What a monster.
Just because you have a thought doesn’t mean you should broadcast it. Even if you have a favorite child, you are supposed to hide this fact as much as possible. The closest I ever get to Sophie’s Choice is trying to figure out if I can wake my son after a car ride so he can walk up the stairs himself or if he won’t, then which child should I carry up first this day.
Is MAM the mommy blogger planning an unassisted pregnancy/unassisted birth?
Yes. She’s nuts.
Even before I became a loss mom, that post infuriated me. I wanted a second baby and here was someone disregarding one of her kids. As a loss mom all I’m thinking is she’s utterly naive to even contemplate such a thing. Losing a child isn’t something you can just shrug off, a piece of you dies.
My eldest was born via csection and was primarily Formula fed, she knows I did what was best for her/us.
I agree wholeheartedly. I lost my sister growing up, she was 7 (car accident). It was devastating and our family was never the same. I experienced it from a sibling point of view, but now that I have children I often tell my mom that I have no idea how she lived after losing her youngest daughter.
My DH and I have often had conversations about losing one of the children. Losing both, we agree we’d probably commit suicide. That we don’t think we COULD live or would want to….but if we lost one (and no, unlike MAM we would be equally devastated if we lost one over the other), we’d have to find a way to live for them. It’s a complete nightmare situation and honestly one of my biggest anxieties. I don’t know how people do it.
I don’t know either. Someone close to me lost one child when the child was a teenager, then an adult child and all but one grandchild several years ago in an accident. She has one living (adult) child, but I have always wondered how she survived.
The biggest shock after hearing in our case “her heart stopped beating” (I had a full-term stillbirth) is that your heart still is beating. The fact my heart was still beating and that I had a living child meant that I had to stay alive. I had no clue how others did it either until I had to.
I’m so sorry you had to learn how.
When I was in still in the hospital after my stillbirth I had one nurse tell me that when it happened to her she had to just keep going because she needed to take care of her other child. Not particularly helpful to me as my stillborn daughter was my firstborn. I don’t know how you keep going, other than it takes too much effort to commit suicide. Plus since you know the pain of losing a child, you don’t want to do that to your parents. There’s also the husband to think about. Perhaps you think about how you’re now all that’s left in the world of your baby and how she deserves to be known and loved and you need to put the goodness out there that she would have since she’s not here to do it herself. And maybe you read that others have kept living and learned to carry the pain so maybe you will too.
Shit. One of my children lives with his father in another state and it kills me to have him so far away. And I can call him and text him and stalk him on Facebook. I cannot even imagine contemplating any of their actual deaths.
Hey, I don’t want to be intrusive, but how’s he doing? (“I’d rather not go into that” is a totally acceptable answer.”) We were all worried at the time of hospitalizations and things.
He’s doing okay. He had two benign growths in his small intestines. They were removed, and while he still has some trouble eating, between medications and just being careful with what and when he eats he has it mostly under control. His doctors are keeping a close eye on things to make sure there’s no recurrence.
I’m glad he’s doing well!
That was my parents’ reasoning. But my sister and I were preteens when it happened and were bratty little shits. I truly feel bad about being a teenager during that time. It had to be so hard on my parents.
Nigga please.
If it helps anyone- my aunt died about twenty years ago (young adult, car accident), and my gran recently told me about lying in bed, thinking about her, and not feeling sad. I don’t think you can ever truly get over it, but for all the loss mothers here, I’m sorry, and I hope one day that your memories are not painful.
It’s been 20 and 17 years since my mid-late second trimester pregnancy losses. I had to actually deliver them because they were big enough that that’s what had to happen, but not gestated enough to survive on the outside. It’s not something you “get over”. It’s something you learn to live with. These days I can talk about it academically, but if I let emotion in, and can still get dicey.
Protip: Don’t read this article while listening to “Because Of You” by Kelly Clarkson. Especially if you’re at work. Dang that was too on the nose.
Kate is dangerous. She writes blog posts that sound reasonable on the
surface (to some people), but give bad advice (home birth, vaccinations). I think she should be called out.
Why would someone EVER write out a public blog post about loving one child more than the other? On the internet, you know her daughter is going to see this one day.
I like to joke that I do have favorites among my three boys. Whomever is not driving me crazy at the moment is my favorite!
I still can’t get past Kate’s insistence that her daughter has “gut” issues from the hospital birth and eating junk food. Why are these “natural living”
bloggers so obsessed with the gut?
Because they are full of shit?
I think a lot of them have serious anxiety problems that manifest as gastro-intestinal issues.
I can’t get past the feeling that her ‘gut’ issues might be anxiety, which can happen when your mom is treating you like a problem -_-
And does she think the daughter hasn’t noticed how she is being treated?
My favorite kid changes from hour to hour some days. Like you, that title belongs to the one not driving me up a wall at any given moment.
My favorite child is whichever one is sleeping at the moment.
I only have one child, and the sleeping one is my favourite as well XD
Well, when they turn into teenagers and you can’t drag their asses out of bed in the mornings (note that it’s 10AM and one of them is still asleep), the criteria for “not driving mom batty” changes a bit.
Duly noted, BeatriceC and Beth Rogers. My kids are all under 4, so I bow to your more extended experience.
I only have the one, he’s 13. Boxcars of hormones, teenage attitude, non-stop eating because he’s growing and sleeping in.
There are days the dog is my favorite child.
I have three and even then sometimes the macaw or the amazon or the cockatoo is the favorite child. And they bite me from time to time.
When they become teenagers, the one you don’t have to wake 8 times before they actually get up, tends to be your favorite 🙂
My nephew was renamed ‘Half-man, half-mattress’ for most of his teens. He woke up about the age of 18.
ha ha that’s good
I find I mostly remember thinking that, between my son, from about age 9, and the older of my two daughters (affectionately known as The Curly Haired Monster), his younger sister, I was ready to invest in a hair gel company. I would have made millions by the time they got out of their teens. I bought the stuff by the gallon.
My niece carried a pillow everywhere until she was 17. She slept in the car, and any where, any time. To my annoyance, she even tried to sleep when she was babysitting my daughter (who was 6 – 8 years old). (My daughter would call me if she fell asleep, though.). But at least sleeping teens are better than acting out teens…. I never had to worry about my niece having other kids (read: boys, right?) over or anything.
ETA: This same niece refused to sneak out at night when a friend knocked on her window (and told us about it). She said, and I quote, “why would I do that? I want to sleep!!”
My 18 year old son keeps a penguin mini-pillow pet in his backpack, and he’s been carting it around since he was 14. It’s apparently perfect for random naps.
I think your niece is a cat.
Also, totally need to start carrying around a pillow for spontaneous napping.
I’m being a little nosy here, but does she have CFS?
(Please excuse any mistakes because this was dictated.)
MinoT, Oh, that’s a good question….and it’s helpful, not nosy.
Yes, it’s possible that my niece has CFS or something like it. (My family has a genetic disorder: Ehlers Danlos syndrome, which may have the same Sx as CFS or it may co-occur with CFS.)
But my niece is in her mid-twenties now (handling work, school, etc.) And she has stopped both the pillow carrying and the napping habit that she had in her teens. It was strange – one day, she just stopped. hopefully, it was a teen thing and not anything serious…so it won’t come back.
Anyway, thanks for your question. Sorry it took so long to respond.
My favorite is the one that just did chores. I declare they are my favorite for all the world to hear. I will even ask who wants to BE my favorite. Oddly, the response is usually “My sister”. Weird.
When I need something done that isn’t part of normal chores and/or is a particularly difficult task, I make an open announcement of “Who wants to be my favorite kid?”. Their response is also generally “my brother” (I have all boys).
The key here, is that my children, and it looks like yours as well, know that we’re being silly.
When we were kids, I used to say, “You love him best”! The Intruder would retaliate, “You love her best!” And them we’d chorus, “She loves Dad best!”
Mine (usually my eldest) will ask me who’s my favorite. I always say “whichever is driving me least crazy.” There have been many times where it’s been my eldest one’s boyfriend, and not even one of my own kids! And others where it’s been the CAT…
I’m child-free, but I have three cats. I have a favourite, but it depends on who is being the cuddliest and snuggly at the time. If someone asked me to choose one to get rid of, I couldn’t do it, I don’t want to lose any of them. And my love for my cats must be the tiniest little fraction of the love parents have for their child-I’ve seen it with my sisters. Yes, they shouted and lost their temper at times (and my youngest nephew was an absolute brat-out-of-hell for the first 10 years of his life), but if anything happened that remotely threatened their children’s safety or happiness, well, She-Hulk comes to mind.
I do cross stitch, and when my first niece was born I gave my sister and bro-in-law a tapestry I’d done with a quote from Elizabeth Stone:
‘Making the decision to have a child – it is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body. ”
Having seen my sisters and their relationship with their kids I can see exactly what that means.
My two are still little and tend to get on my nerves daily but the thought of either of them not being here is completely inconceivable to me. It is literally my worst nightmare and I am not the typical mushy “my children complete me” type of mother. This seems like it would be a typical parental response, probably with biological roots to make sure our offspring carry on the genes.
I’m worried that one of her idiot followers will read this and think they have to have a potentially risky home birth because it’s the only way they’ll be able to bond with their baby.
@Amy Tuteur Do you not have anything better to do than stalk this person and pick apart everything she does? Are you so perfect that you feel you should be put up on some pedestal of perfectness? Actually to me you seem like you have some sort of deep trauma that you are projecting onto this woman. Perhaps you need to seek some therapy instead of bash a woman being honest about dark feelings that she is trying to deal with. Why are people so mean? I’m ashamed of people like you.
If you have a blog and make your entire persona about how your choices are superior, people saying “hey, I see that and don’t love it” isn’t *stalking*, k? And she’s not “trying to deal with” anything, b/c she’s not admitting she has a problem. Ugh.
You know what? I see a lot of things that people do that I don’t love. Doesn’t mean I write an article for the world to see bashing the person for it. Just scroll on by SMH
MAM has made the decision to become a public persona. This comes with criticism. If she doesn’t like it, she can close her blog.
And don’t YOU have anything better to do than to stalk Dr Tuteur here? If you don’t like what she’s writing, why don’t you just keep scrolling instead of coming here to bash her?
No. Not if she is the owner of a public blog endangering pregnant women. Why should we ignore her?
If she is emotionally abusing her child, why should we ignore her?
Some actress uses her platform to peddle nonsense (“jade eggs”) to women, endangering their health. Why should we ignore her?
Why should we ignore the woo-peddlers, those putting forth profoundly dangerous and horribly damaging advice? After all, they are putting themselves out there as experts and gurus. If we don’t counter them, who will?
” Doesn’t mean I write an article for the world to see”
You probably can’t. Write an article, that is.
You see medical, emotional and educational neglect of a child and your response is to scroll on by and shake your head?
That’s problematic.
MAM has set herself up as a professional giver of advice despite lack of any relevant qualifications and with an enormous dose of dangerous beliefs and prejudices.
No, I don’t have anything better to do than call out abusive parental behavior.
Well said.
Thank you!
She offers medical advice without any medical training to parents and children! She is incredibly dangerous and absolutely should be criticized.
Why are people so mean? Why are they treating their 9-year-old like damaged goods? Why aren’t they getting vital preventive care for their children?
Why are they educating their children instead of blaming their child for not learning to read?
Using “unschooling” to justify non-intervention when a kid has fallen off the chart for a developmentally appropriate skill causes me to see red every time.
Tieje has two acceptable choices: Teach her daughter to read or hire someone to teach her daughter to read (either by enrolling in the public schools she pays taxes for or on her own dime.)
Anything else is callous neglect.
I get really angry at the bastardization of the “unschooling” theory. In it’s original form, it’s actually a solid, valid educational method. It’s quite a lot of work for the adult; more so than traditional educational methods, but if done right it can be great for a certain type of child/student.
This BS that some home school parents try to pass of as “unschooling” is exactly that. BS.
Have you read/heard about Beatrix Potter’s childhood? She was essentially unschooled – but she and her brother had such voracious appetites for learning that they really learned more than most kids now. (I recommend The History Chicks podcast, excellent, thorough research).
But that isn’t what is happening in this case, obv
Yup, but as you say, that’s not what’s happening here.
It really is infuriating because the concept has so much potential for hard to reach kids. It could be an answer for so many, but it’s not because it’s been twisted and destroyed to the extent that no serious educator wants to touch it.
So go off to your safe corner and be ashamed of “people like us”.
MAM seems to be projecting HER guilt/trauma/disappointment/insert negative emotion here onto her 9 year old daughter without considering the daughter’s feelings.
And it is “perfection”, not “perfectness”.
So we’re defining “stalking” now as reading a *public* post and commenting (rightly) that it sounds demented and abusive?
If MAM doesn’t want criticism maybe she should keep her horrible thoughts to her horrible self.
Wait, is it really this hard to understand Dr. Amy’s post? The exact problem is that instead of “trying to deal with” those “dark feelings” she is wallowing in them and completely ignoring how awful it is for her daughter.
You know, if she were at least trying to actually do something about her issues and for that daughter (even if there were no improvement), it would be something deserving of sympathy. But she blames the daughter for her personality, her birth, basically everything, and instead of trying to connect with her, she’s trying to have a “replacement kid”, and tries to pass that off as a favour for the kid she thinks is broken.
No, this is not the honest confession type of thing. It’s a show of selfish narcisissm.
Try being ashamed of MAM for refusing to go to therapy to get over HER issues.
Hey, Kate’s lapdogs! What pleasure do you derive from whiteknighting your joke of a mistress? What hold does this monster who leaves a child to suffer with a broken arm for a week before driving hours to have him seen, instead of going somewhere closer to make it more comfortable for herself have over you? Why do you feel the need to defend this joke of a mother who publicly admitted favouring one child over another on a venue where said child is sure to see it one day? What is in there for you?
Why is Kate so cowardly that she doesn’t come here herself and sends her army of ants instead?
That was the worst post ever written in the history of narcissism, mothers, and emotional abuse. Ever. Pretty distressing that she considers hospital birth and eating junk food her biggest parenting regrets. Also, no, it’s not normal. Loving one of your children more than the others is a pathology. Seek help before you harm your kids.
I cannot imagine being so selfish that I would let the way I gave birth determine my love for my child. No, it wasn’t because you gave birth in a hospital that you don’t love your daughter as much, it’s because you’re a horrible person.
This post disgusts me. I am so sick of the shaming and lack of support from fellow mom’s. I know Kate and she is an amazing person.
This post disgusts me too. It’s a disturbing look into the sick, twisted mind of an utterly _disgusting_ human being.
If you “know” her, get her to a fucking psychiatrist and STFU with your white knighting. Lackey.
Amazing people don’t think it’d be okay if their daughter went away.
Nobody cares whether it disgusts you. If you’re sick of shaming, start close to home and tell Katie to sort her act out.
There’s nothing “amazing” about emotional abuse.
So you’re disgusted. So the hell what? We are disgusted by MAM’s mealymouthed bleating about how her daughter is her least favorite child, is somehow damaged by things the child had no control over/say in, and how she is hoping that the next baby will be a girl, so she can get her Mulligan.
You can tell us that you disagree with our assessments. That is fine and you are perfectly within your rights to do so. But we are under no obligation to change our views because you say so.
Danielle’s disgust and John McCain’s disappointment and $4 won’t get you a coffee at Starbucks.
She’s an amazing person who loves her daughter less because of the way she was born. Read that over a few times.
I can’t. The cognitive dissonance is making the words swim and blur in front of my eyes.
Wait…is that supposed to be a defense?
No I think it was supposed to be rather pithy. MAM’s little white knight there called her an ‘amazing’ person, so Jen used their words against them and asking them to read that statement and think about who they’re defending. Not that the parachuter will, the cognitive dissonance is strong in the MAM cult and they will hear no ill against their beloved leader of quackery.
Nope, pretty sure that’s supposed to be cutting sarcasm and incredulity.
I had hoped so. I honestly couldn’t tell anymore after reading through the thread.
MaineJen is a regular, so I feel confident that she wouldn’t defend such awfulness. That helps with the interpretation :).
She’s an idiot. Remember that time when MAM crowdsourced on facebook what the lifelong consequences of not having a third/fourth degree tear repaired will be? MAM, the person who dispenses unlicensed medical advice on pregnancy and childbirth to the gullible? That’s when I started calling her Maimed Alternative Mama, given all the prolapses and damage her lovely homebirths have provided her with. https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/2266/525/original.jpg
Healed but still split? That’s like healthy but still sick. Fat but still thin. Cute but still ugly. I’m not getting it. A perineum that is still split is not normal. So it’s not swollen and bleeding anymore, but it’s still open enough that she’s worried it will tear the rest of the way. It should have been repaired already. What a loony-tune.
Yes…amazingly abusive and unethical.
An “amazing person” would get treatment for her maladaptive behavior.
You all realize that c the person that write the article is a troll. She’s taking the thoughts of a mother and using it against her. Get to know Kate yourselves and see. She’s a great person and a wonderful mother. The first “post” about her daughter was a comparison to the differences in birth and what mainstream considers “normal.” And the “normal” didn’t offer as much bonding as what people consider “alternative.” Though if you go back to your great grandparents era and further back, the “alternative” was actually normal.
Can’t bond at all if someone dies as they so often did in our “great grandparents era”… and back up that claim that babies who get proper healthcare at birth can’t “bond”… I’ll take my intact brain and lack of polio over all that rustic charm kthx.
A person who openly favors one of her children over another is not a wonderful mother, no matter what other amazing things she may do as a mother.
Anyone who takes a week to notice her kid’s broken arm, openly declares that it “wouldn’t be so bad” if her child dies in full view of millions of people, and who deprives her children of proper medical care and a quality education is not a good mom. In fact, that’s being a shit mom.
Oh but she gives them organic foods of the faddiest kind, and she breastfed them, and most of them she pushed out without doctors around. That’s the only thing that counts!
I have 0 problems bonding with my c-section born daughter. That doesn’t make me wonderful. You don’t even need to be a ‘wonderful’ mother to bond and love your children. Any half decent mother will bond properly with all her children regardless of how they are born.
Only a terrible human being would let something as irrelevant as birth method affect their affection for their own child.
I had 0 problems bonding with my two c-section babies, even though they were “gestated in a box” for a bit longer after they were born. Hell, I couldn’t even touch YK for 3 weeks he was so unstable. But we bonded just as well as with my oldest, who wasn’t a CS.
I find it concerning the Stockholm Syndrome-esque spell she has her followers under. How, just HOW, is it acceptable to write about not loving your daughter and allowing another son to spend a WEEK with a broken arm and only taking him to a chiropractor for treatment? Please enlighten the sane minds of the world, because apparently we’re in the wrong for thinking this disgusting piece of pond scum could pass as a good mother….
What was the perinatal and infant mortality rate back when “alternative” was actually normal?
The first post about her daughter was revealing what psychologically disturbed monster Kate was as a mother. It was also revealing what kind of psychologically troubled people read it and thought, You go Kate! instead of gently suggesting that perhaps she needs help to stop tormenting her daughter. Such feelings are harmful for your goddess as well, not just the unworthy c-section child but you – genrric you – didn’t even think about it, did you? Surprise, surprise.
For a great person, she’s certainly posted some appalling things.
You’re joking, right?
My grandparents didn’t bond with 7 of their 11 children, because they died. What a joke you are.
That’s funny, I didn’t know in the past parents loved all their children equally and never abused them in any way because they had natural births and only ate natural food.
But of course they did, that’s why the rate of infanticide in prehistoric times was 15-20 .
Go to a 100 year old graveyard. Look and see how many wives and how many very young children next to just one man.
Women died in childbirth on a regular basis, or died of some [now preventable] disease or because of the incredible stress caused by multiple births. Unattended, no prenatal care, “normal” births.
Children died of any number of horrible diseases we can now prevent. You know what the #1 cause of death in children is NOW? Accidents.
I had three c-section children. We all bonded quite well, thank you very much. To this day, we’re almost too close. 100 years ago, I would have been one of those burials at the first one, and the second two would never have been born. Not to me, anyway.
Fuck you and your “bonding” bullshit. People can have a planned C-Section and formula feed and have an incredible bond with their children. Hell, I adopted my daughter when she was 12 and we have such a tight bond you’d think she was my birth child.
No, this bitch has chosen to write off her daughter because her daughter no longer fits into her new identity. She chooses to see her daughter as a mistake because of a hospital birth and eating junk food instead of the lovely little girl she is and it sickens me. She ignores her daughter’s needs for her “perfect” homebirthed children. THIS IS ABUSE. I you can’t see that you are part of the problem.
My mother grew up an only child because her older brother was stillborn at home after an excruciating three days of labor. It’s a miracle my grandmother survived that birth. Oh, there was a hospital right across the street where my grandmother might have had a C-section that would have saved her child, but in 1922 the home birth that killed my uncle was “normal.” FFS
I don’t want to get to know someone like Kate. She’s emotionally abusive to her daughter, and rather than go to therapy to fix it, continues to blame the child instead. A good mother doesn’t write shit like that on the open web. The internet never forgets. Someday, her daughter will read that garbage. Do you think she’ll think her mom is “a great person and a wonderful mother?” I doubt it.
You should be ashamed of yourself for the way you shame mothers – particularly those who are trying to bring to light the imperfections they are honestly wrestling through. She’s not defending those emotions as right, but just laying it bear that they exist. How many mothers have cowered in the darkness with postpartum depression because they didn’t feel like they could talk about it openly? How many times has mother felt like a failure because she hasn’t felt the things she’s “supposed” to feel towards her child? Kate Tietje has created a space to talk about these things and we don’t know exactly how much of this she has shared with her daughter, nor should we make any assumptions about that. If anything, it may be an encouragement to her if she becomes a mother one day. I remember my own mother sharing with me that it took 6 weeks for her to really feel love for her newborn and that helped me when I experienced the same thing. Motherhood is a raw, unpredictable roller coaster fraught with hills and valleys we can’t anticipate and we do a disservice when we try to silence those who need space to talk about the very real challenges they face.
we don’t
know exactly how much of this she has shared with her daughter, nor
should we make any assumptions about that.
She POSTED IT ON THE WEB. It’s there forever. We are not “assuming” anything when we say her daughter either already knows or will find out eventually.
Not necessarily. Remember, she refuses to give her kids a proper education, so even if they do come across it on the web, they won’t be able to read it!
oh, you’re right. that’s probably her master plan.
exactly. She posted it on the internet with her full name attached to it, for crying out loud! If she had gone into a therapist’s office to express these feelings, no one would have a problem with that. Because that is how you appropriately “wrestle with” these type of feelings.
Do not go there. The comparison of this woman’s vile post, baring to the world that her daughter is her scapegoat while her son is her golden child is in no way comparable to women wrestling with postpartum depression. You are just as vile as she is for defending her, and even more vile by attempting to take advantage of a fragile population in your sad excuse of a defense.
Ms Tietje, at this point, has no redeeming qualities. She’s indefensible. She neglects and abuses her children and then blogs about it. You’re defending a child abuser, and that’s disgusting.
She could have written about the feelings anonymously and posted them on any number of sites. There are lots of places a mother can admit and discuss things like this without tying her identity – and her children’s identities – to the points. THAT is the issue the majority of people have with her – not just that she favors one child or has these feelings as much as that her children can – and undoubtedly will – read this and know their mother felt these things about them. That is horrific.
She could have sought therapy. That would have been much better.
Bingo. I’m all in favour of removing some of the myths around motherhood and acknowledging that it isn’t always instant love and puppies, but it’s unforgivable to rub your child’s nose in your own conflicted feelings about being a mother. I had a friend whose mother routinely used to tell her to her face that she wished she’d never had her and that women only have kids because the patriarchy brainwashes them into it. That friend of mine was, unsurprisingly, the most fucked up person I’ve ever met. I didn’t think her mother was brave or feminist, or any of the excuses my friend made for her – she was just another selfish, emotionally abusive parent. The fact that MAM used the internet to write her daughter off doesn’t make it any better – if anything it’s worse, because the poor child might read what she wrote one day, knowing it’s already been shared with the world.
My mother used to tell me that she’d thought of aborting me, and wishes she had (To top it off, she is still loudly pro-life). MAM is a horror and I hope her kids manage to thrive and go on to have healthy, happy lives despite her.
Ah, I’m so sorry. My stepfather is in his 60s and still isn’t over the fact that his mother used to tell him as a child that she wished she’d got rid of him with gin and a hot bath. I hope that you are thriving and happy too, in spite of your mother.
It took a while, but I’m much better off than I could have been. I think the hardest thing was having my own kids – I have this huge love and connection to them, and couldn’t understand how anyone who felt like that could treat their kids so poorly. Either it was my fault for being terrible or she didn’t feel anything positive for us. When I realised it was the latter, I was able to be angry, stop blaming myself, and let go.
Anonymous posting doesn’t bring in $$$
Are you trying to defend emotional abuse?
It’s good to talk about having these feelings. Feeling like it wouldn’t be terrible if your daughter would die is something that one OUGHT to talk about…..with a qualified psychotherapist. It is NOT the proper place to speak of them ‘in public’ like it was totally ok and normal. Talk about how you once had these feelings, but got help and now have a rocking good relationship with your child AND YOU SHOULD SEEK HELP TOO.
But unless and until one is psychologically healthy, one ought not be speaking of pathology as normal.
as someone who is psychologically not so healthy, sometimes getting therapy is a very good thing! Also, ppd sucks.
I admin a group for women with PPD. Sometimes the first step is reaching out online, in a safe place, where your peers can tell you that you’re not a horrible person, many of us have been there, and encourage you to seek help from your doctor and/or therapist. So many people are afraid to seek help, and there is a place for peer support, but this is clearly not what MAM is doing.
She’s trying to normalize these feelings and thoughts as perfectly okay and acceptable. That’s horrifying. Given that I spend so much of my time running that group and advocating for maternal mental health issues, you can imagine how alarmed I am at MAM trying to normalize these pathological thoughts. How many women suffering from postpartum mental health issues will read what she’s saying and think “oh, this is normal, so I won’t get help.” It just scares the life out of me.
Also…. she admits that she shares stuff with her daughter. So….
” we don’t know exactly how much of this she has shared with her daughter,”
OH FFS. My 8 year old has used Google to look famly members up on the internet. Unless her kids are as technologically deprived as they are educationally and medically neglected, I’m sure that her older kids can find it.
Saying that you love your daughter less than your son is not a minor imperfection. The open web is not an appropriate space to say things like that. Go to a fucking therapist.
You really are just the scum of the earth. Is there ANYTHING considered even remotely natural that you don’t hate? You go ahead and rip apart women who don’t operate the way you do. If anyone is a “sanctimommy” it’s you are your PATHETIC in your need to rip a specific person apart….
Sorry, but do you really think Tietje is right here???? Ok, so she has issues, but instead of talking to a friend she posts them online just to make absolutely sure that her kid will one day find them and doubt and hate herself, but okay, the people calling her out on being a terrible parent are the problem???? Wow, I’m impressed by your lack of ability to think logically.
Where is your concern for the child? If SHE hears about this, she doesn’t have the skills to reason and cope with what her mother posted. At that age, she could very well think, “Why doesn’t Mommy love me? I must be bad.”
And you are concerned with this sad excuse for a mother? Go away, please.
I happen to think that child abuse should be ripped apart. You don’t?
Natural is ignoring your child’s broken bone for days?
Well, Dr. Amy’s has managed to raise four children without writing any posts about how much one kid has been completely ruined by her birth.
Never heard about any of her kids running around with an un-set broken limb, either.
Tieje can’t bother to take the time to teach her oldest daughter to read; instead, she blames her daughter for it by labeling her educational neglect as “unschooling”. You know, once her daughter is “interested” or “invested” enough she’ll learn how to read.
Pathetic is defending an emotionally, medically and educationally neglectful mother because she hides behind the word “natural”.
And exactly what part of publicly calling your daughter damaged and saying that you love her less is ‘natural’?
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/818904498437378048?lang=en
“permanent sensitive gut”
This is a problem. Either the child has something medical (in which case it is probably going undiagnosed as Tietje avoids medical care for her children) or the child could be suffering from chronic anxiety.
or Tietje is imagining symptoms for her, since there HAS to be something wrong with her, after being born in a hospital and eating :gasp: junk food.
Poor kid. I can just picture, every time she disappoints her mother in some way, being told “you can’t help being defective. I ruined you by letting you have junk food.”
Yep. If she noticed at seven that there was something “different” about herself, it’s because her mom made it clear that she’s damaged.
In contrast, I know someone with a child who has anxiety issues (hereditary); she got her child lots of help and NEVER made that child feel “wrong” or defective. Her child is doing great and I think will have a healthy youth and adulthood because of this early support and love.
The person I am speaking about would skin me alive if I identified her child in any way, incidentally, because she carefully protects her children’s privacy (in contrast to Tietje).
Imagine being trapped with a mother who believes you are permanently damaged goods compared to your younger siblings day in and day out. She doesn’t even get the escape of going to school.
Her daughter knows. There’s no way she could avoid picking up how much her mother despises her.
Junk food as in formula or…?
That poor little girl. Maybe her stomach troubles are the result of stress. I hope she gets far away from her parents when she’s eighteen and her only contact with them is a call at Christmas.
Unfortunately, the pattern in toxic families is that it’s more likely to be the Golden Child (the son, in this case) who escapes and only visits occasionally (treasured visits that the parents rave about). Meanwhile, the Scapegoat will stick around for decades, doing whatever the parents want, hoping to finally be valued.
Some of us scapegoats figure it out and break free. I moved nearly 3000 miles and cut off all contact. My only regret is that I didn’t do it sooner.
I was kicked out at 17 shortly after a miscarriage because I “broke their trust” by having (consensual – age of consent here is 16) sex and not telling them. Which is just so incredibly gross when I type it out.
How sad. Would MAM still be blogging – about how her precious son never calls or visits – never mentioning her daughter except to bemoan how they never bonded?
What is wrong with her? You DO NOT post things about your child that will hurt or humiliate her. You just don’t. It is massively narcissistic to think otherwise, and not to consider the harm being done to your child.
And no, I have never played “Which Child Would I Prefer to Die?” It’s absolutely horrifying to think of any of my children dying. I don’t think I’m alone in this.
Sophie’s Choice earned Meryl Streep an Oscar. Maybe MAM feels she would (or should) get a similar honor from the internet.
“Sensitive gut” due to a c-section is a fake condition. Too much fruit can cause digestive issues, raw milk (which may be what they drink), the same.
I went through a battery of tests in my 30s for a very sensitive stomach. MRI, CT scan, endoscopy, ultrasounds, blood work. They found nothing. The diagnosis? Stress.
I was in my 30s. This poor child could have a life of physical misery ahead of her if she already has stomach issues. Stress can cause very real problems. And a child that age just doesn’t have the coping skills to deal with this.
This hurts my heart. That poor little girl.
Oh, it’s definitely what they drink. She’s a Weston Price Foundation follower (which is basically a cult) and they think that raw milk is basically magic. And that women should drink a quart of it a day when they’re pregnant. (Yes, really.)
She is such a horrible parent
And now her daughter is 9. Katie “unschools” her.. Her daughter is reading at a kindergarten level. Katie doesn’t care. Kate is more interesting being “right”. (Her sons don’t seem to be doing much better educational. She sees Minecraft as an acceptable from of education.)
Katie is a horrible mother.
Hey now, don’t be dissing Minecraft as an educational tool. It’s awesome – my kid is learning game design and basic if-then programming, uses his math to design builds, even some basic engineering.
Granted, he’s also going to school and is at or above grade and age appropriate skills, and Minecraft isn’t a form of education but just another thing that builds a couple useful skills…
Letting a kid sit around on a computer or tablet all day isn’t educational no matter how bad you wish it was. It’s lazy parenting. If you don’t want to teach your children, send them to school. Don’t claim a computer game is acceptable as education.
Games can certainly be educational. Sure, you shouldn’t let your kid be on the computer all day long, and some games are much more educational than others. But some gaming can totally be a part of the overall education of children and help develop certain skills. Minecraft can be a very creative tool, it’s basically unlimited lego.
Lego without the caltrop dangers? Cool! Can you play it on a regular computer?
Yep. It’s a pretty cool game.
Upvoted for caltrop (a word that’s not getting used enough) (unlike Frederick Douglass. Or something.)
My 8 year old and DH have been spending 20 minutes (while I make dinner) every evening playing Zelda: Breath of the Wild for the last few months.
He has the controls and does the fighting, she reads the maps, decides where they go, what missions they do and is in charge of what armour they wear and the recipes and elixirs they cook. They solve the puzzles in the temples together.
They are having an absolute blast and I think there is probably something educational in it, but even if there isn’t, they are bonding over a shared interest and working together, so that’s good too.
Even if there isn’t much to be learned. Kids don’t have to be actively learning stuff every waking second of their lives. They need to just play and relax.
I got a switch and BotW for my 60th birthday in November. Until I became halfway competent with the controls, the way your DH and 8yo were playing was pretty much the reverse of the way I was playing with my grandson (then 6). I’d do everything except the battles, and would turn the controllers over to him for those tricky bits. His young brain and hands are so much faster than my old, painfully arthritic ones!
You don’t have the read good, do ya? “Granted, he’s also going to school and is at or above grade and age appropriate skills, and Minecraft isn’t a form of education…” Did you forget to read the second half of her comment in your haste to insult her parenting?
Right, computer skills are completely useless in 2017. Silly me.
Also mentioned my son *is* in school full time. Surely you don’t think I’m defending unschooling and not educating a kid merely because I did defend a single tool as educational. As I said: “Minecraft isn’t a form of education but just another thing that builds a couple useful skills”
And I will defend Minecraft, dammit. It’s also been a big family activity – we all play together regularly – and we use it as a jumping off point for all sorts of discussions (food and materials can come from animals, here’s the process of how trees can turn into planks that turn into houses, how much power will get you to coast how far on a rail, lets build our own real life structures, lets make real slime and explore chemistry…) He has improved his spelling and typing as well. It is a phenomenal tool. And I say this *as an involved parent who sends her child to full time school*
Video games aren’t school.
But video games – this one in particular – can be learning tools.
I abhor Katie Tietje’s public statements about her children. I have a younger (half) brother who was openly favored by my dad and stepmom and it caused a great many long term issues for me. I think unschooling is simple neglect about 99% of the time.
But Minecraft is awesome.
Minecraft is brilliant! My kids love it, it’s something they can all play together on a similar level despite age differences, and as you said: they’re learning basic if/then programming.
“Letting a kid sit around on a computer or tablet all day isn’t educational no matter how bad you wish it was.”
Neither is giving them control of their own education at 9 years old (and younger). To quote you again, “it’s lazy parenting.”
Because we all know how altruistic children are about their own welfare and education.
I’m guessing your reading comprehension skill is not very high. Nowhere in Kq’s post did she say she was letting her child “sit around on a computer or tablet all day”, nor did she claim it was a substitution/in lieu of formal education.
She says: “Granted he’s also going to school and is at or above grade level and age appropriate skills and Minecraft isn’t a form of education but just another thing that builds a couple of useful skills.” Now, maybe you didn’t understand that because it is a long, compound and complex sentence that has a lot of hard words.
Allow me to paraphrase: Minecraft is not the same as school. Minecraft uses ideas taught in school to build a world, like computer Legos (TM). This lets a child use the concepts he is taught in school in a very real way. Much like helping Mom cook (math, science) or helping Dad build/repair something (math, spatial recognition, etc.). In other words, her child DOES go to school for his book learnin’ and then will use things taught in school to enrich his Minecraft world.
It is NOT “lazy parenting” to allow a child to have unstructured time where they can pursue their own interests, up to and including the computer, no matter how bad you wish it was.
And yes, some computer games can be educational and/or make the player use real-life education to participate and make progress in the virtual world.
Hear hear! I agree with everything you wrote, with one caveat – in our house it was more often helping Dad cook and helping Mum with the DIY, vehicle maintenance etc.
Of course all of mine went to school – with both parents autistic, where else were they going to learn ‘normal’? 😀
Hey, my kid can’t get enough of Minecraft on his tablet, and he’s reading well above grade level. *yawn*
How do you know that she’s reading at a kindergarten level? (I’m not doubting you–this is completely unsurprising–just curious how you know.)
She posted pictures of her reading on FB and admitted it on posts.
Wow. My eight year old reads on a Kindergarten level and it is a very big deal in my life. Lots of tutoring and training and help for her and me so we can identify the liability and help her grow skills to manage it so she can go on to do whatever the hell she wants in her life, unstopped. Because, you know. I like my kid.
Every time a Sanctimommy says “When you know better you do better,” Maya Angelou turns over in her grave.
Ehh, it’s applicable to some legitimate things, like carseat safety- I still cringe every time I see pictures of my now 8 year old forward-facing at 10 months and sitting in a backless booster at 2.5, because I didn’t “know better”. But even not knowing better I still knew to vaccinate the dang kid so I guess I’m already one-up on Tietje.
I %^*& hate that phrase, because it’s always always always followed by some form of subtle shaming. Or not so subtle.
It’s seriously always followed by some form of bullshit. Maya Angelou was a civil rights hero. Her exhortations to “know better and do better” refer to people having real struggles and hardships. Not bullshit about breastfeeding vs formula or having an epidural.