Lactivists are confused.
We need to learn what nerve fed is best has touched and work out what that is.
I’m not sure why they’re scratching their heads over three simple words that mean what they say: breastfeeding may be (slightly) better than formula, but fully fed is best.
[pullquote align=”right” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]In every article, meme and Facebook comment insisting that breast is best, replace the word “breast” with “heterosexuality.” See how ugly it sounds?[/pullquote]
But since they’re still confused I think a thought experiment might help. In every article, meme and Facebook comment insisting that breast is best, replace the word “breast” with “heterosexuality.”
I found the perfect example for this thought experiment in a comment on The Milk Meg’s post supporting the vile Stefania Giraldi piece I wrote about earlier this week.
Brittney has this to say:
The current attitude of the “fed is best” crowd has made me hostile towards them.
It’s not that I think formula is actually the devil, or that there are no moms who couldn’t, or that there’s actually something wrong with simply not wanting to.
The issues I’ve seen are clear:
1. They do not want mothers to celebrate their breastfeeding journey.
2. They sabotage mothers who clearly state they want to breastfeed.
3. They are anti science and argue with facts that do not fit their agenda. (Like WHO recommendations.)
4. Some “Fed Is Best” ladies are not just pro formula. They’re anti breastfeeding. They exploit old stories for their agenda.
5. Formula feeding is not a personal accomplishment like breastfeeding is.
Formula feeding is simply buying a product from a dominant industry. There’s very little trial & error. There’s no skill to learn.
It’s like buying a store bought cake vs a made from scratch cake then telling the person who put in the effort to make the cake that the store bought one is just as good or better. It’s rude. One is a truly personal accomplishment, the other is just normal. Both cakes are usually good though.
You dont need a support group for formula feeding. We don’t need formula feeding advocacy. Women are not kicked out of establishments for formula feeding. They dont need employee protection to work and formula feed.
These advocates for formula are not making an accurate comparison. They’re just retaliating because they want to feel that their choice is superior when its not.
Let’s try the thought experiment.
They do not want women to celebrate their heterosexuality.
See how ugly that sounds?
It’s because we understand that when someone purports to celebrate their heterosexuality, it is meant to at the expense of people who are gay.
Why would you need to celebrate your heterosexuality anyway? It’s a biological function, not an achievement. The fact that you choose to act on the way that you are born is hardly remarkable.
And why would celebration be seen as integral to heterosexuality? Is someone trying to take it away from you or are gay people merely fighting for the respect every human being deserves?
Similarly is anyone trying to end celebration of breastfeeding or are women who can’t or don’t wish to breastfeed merely trying to stop celebration at their expense?
They sabotage women who clearly state they want to be heterosexual.
When you make the substitution this claim also sounds very ugly and rather nonsensical.
Is that even possible? Can you sabotage another woman’s sexuality merely by mentioning the possibility that she might be gay?
The central claim of lactivists — that every woman would breastfeed if she had enough support — is starkly reminiscent of the ugly claims of those who promote so called “gay conversion therapy.” No amount of “support” will turn someone who is gay into a heterosexual and no amount of “support” will turn a woman who can’t or doesn’t want to breastfeed into someone who can or wishes to do so.
Moreover, just as gay conversion therapy is a euphemism for hectoring, berating and bullying gay people into denying reality, breastfeeding “support” is a euphemism for hectoring, berating and bullying women into breastfeeding whether they want to or not.
They are anti science and argue with facts that do not fit their agenda.
Let’s leave aside for the moment that it is lactivists who are ignoring the large and growing body of literature on the risks and costs of promoting breastfeeding and consider another aspect of this claim:
There’s no question that heterosexuality is the biological norm, and there is no question that gay people face discrimination and even violence for openly acknowledging their sexuality. Arguably, gay people face an existence far riskier than straight people. Those are facts, yet those facts don’t justify treating gay people as second class citizens, do they? Indeed, it is no one else’s business who a gay person loves just like it is no one else’s business whether or not a woman chooses to breastfeed.
Some women are not just pro homosexuality. They’re anti heterosexuality. They exploit old stories of gay women harmed by intolerance of their families and communities for their agenda.
How idiotic does that sound? Gay people aren’t opposed to straight people; indeed straight people have nothing to do with the fact that a person is gay. Gay people don’t need to affirm their sexuality by insisting that you have the same sexuality; apparently only heterosexuals need to do that. Gay people who tell stories about the pain of intolerance do so because they don’t want anyone to endure the suffering they have endured, not to scare straight people into becoming gay.
Similarly, Fed Is Best advocates aren’t opposed to breastfeeding; many like me found that breastfeeding was the best choice for ourselves and our babies. We tell stories (and quote scientific evidence) about the harms babies suffer as the result of aggressive breastfeeding promotion into order to ensure that no other babies have to endure similar suffering.
Homosexuality is not a personal accomplishment like heterosexuality is.
The truth is that neither is a personal accomplishment any more than digesting food or breathing air is an accomplishment.
Similarly, breastfeeding is not a personal accomplishment. Up until 150 years ago every mother who ever lived did it and many of their babies died in the attempt. How can doing something that literally every other women in the world could do — give their babies nothing besides the breast — possibly be an accomplishment of any kind? It can’t.
Sure, you are free to pretend that breastfeeding is some sort of accomplishment, but don’t expect the rest of the world to share your self-serving value system.
Brittney says:
[Formula feeding is] like buying a store bought cake vs a made from scratch cake then telling the person who put in the effort to make the cake that the store bought one is just as good or better.
And insisting that breast is best is like telling a woman without an oven that the raw ingredients of a cake made from scratch cake are better for her children than a store bought cake. It’s like insisting that unless she is forcing those raw eggs, uncooked flour and 70-proof vanilla down her screaming children’s throats, she is depriving them of the “benefits” of cake made from scratch. It’s false; it’s cruel; and it’s dangerous!
Another commentor disagrees with her, but Brittney is ready with her retort:
Breastmilk a personal accomplishment. Formula feeding is a consumer choice for the privileged.
Anyone who cant follow the instructions on the can is incompetent.
People like me dont coddle grown women who are begging for validation at the expense of breastfeeding advocacy.
You’re bringing other arguments into the equation because without including medical necessity or mixed feeding you’d have no base.
Fuck Fed Is Best.
No, Brittney, fuck you and the lactivists who think like you.
On the topic of lactivism, non heterosexuality and ‘normal’… twitter fuckwittage alert.
Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Conservative Party in Scotland, has just announced she’s expecting a baby with her wife. All lovely news etc, congrats all round. Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish First Minister, tweeted her a nice message with good wishes, and used a baby bottle emoticon on there. Cue at least three miserable lactivist fuckers complaining about it in the comments. One of them used the phrase ‘biological norm’. The irony of this being an IVF baby was apparently lost on her.
Remember when the mommy tiger on Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood had a baby bottle in her baby-supply basket, and the lactivist outcry could be heard for miles around? (The fact that said tiger family all wear *clothes* did not seem to provoke the same outrage re: biological norms.) You cannot make this stuff up.
They got mad at that?! Doesn’t surprise me!
I hadn’t heard of it, but sounds about right.
Wait, did she seriously say formula is for the privileged? Then why do breastfeeding rates go down as income levels go down?
Breastmilk is a freaking danger in not so few cases! Lactivist bitches should just stick their heads higher up their asses since they seem uncapable of taking them out!
Remember my friend with the 30-weeker? The one who walked around like a stroke waiting to happen for a good week after giving birth? Well, the reason they didn’t treat her with stronger meds sooner was because they wanted to protect her breastmilk! I know it’s beneficial for preemies and so on but a living mother trumps it every day of the week – and it was a week before they gave her the good stuff. At the time, the situation was so out of hand that they released her on the condition that if her BP doesn’t drop in the next few hours, she should go to the national cardiology hospital since they were not such an unit and certainly not on such a level.
Thankfully, the BP did drop. She went there nonetheless and the situation (for both her and baby) looks improved. They’re currently trying to test her on lower doses of meds. We’ll see. But I’m positive that drying her up and bloody treating her was better for the baby than running the risk of her growing up without a mother.
Fuck breastmilk, fuck breasmilking, fuck breastfeeding accomplishments and fuck breastfeeding journeys. All hail life.
OT: When I look at the baby pictures of Amazing Niece, I can clearly see now that one of her eyes had a squint even then. None of us saw. Not a single one paid attention. But if we, as laypeople and blinded by our love for her, could not see, where the hell was the freaking pediatrician? She was seen regularly. Then again, the pediatrician (the same one who used to treat the Intruder and me) has been combining medicine and homeopathy for a while. I’ve always claimed that I place no trust in doctors who can work on two principles that fundamentally contradict each other.
How is the 30-weeker going? So glad your friend is FINALLY getting the right treatment!
She’s doing better. A few days ago, she started breathing on her own. Her mom says she no longer looks like a starving baby but a starving baby who has been fed once or twice.
Yeah, there was time when I was scared to see my friend’s name on my phone screen. At the same time, I was scared that it would be her name and her partner’s voice because… you know. Her BP was monstrously high. So happy she’s being treated now.
Her cake analogy is flawed. Formula is hardly an easy path, and caring for a new baby is damn hard no matter how you feed it. And for the love of God, can we please stop using the word “journey”?! I’m sick to death of hearing about everyone’s metaphorical journeys, and even if you are talking about actual travel, unless it’s to the center of the earth our outer space, how about we just go with “trip”?
Also is the cake a Safeway cake or a fancy bakery cake? Because there is a real possibility the store bought cake might be better.
This is just another example of the culture of mothers being expected to martyr themselves for their children. Any parenting process that is “harder” is seen as more virtuous, hence the use of terms like “breastfeeding journey” and referring to breastfeeding as an accomplishment.
Also, formula feeding is not always a “choice for the privileged consumer” unless you count my child being alive as a “privilege.”
I hate, HATE it when breastfeeding is referred to as a “journey” by the mother. Ridiculous romantic notion.
the more I think about it, the more I think her cake analogy is actually perfect, just not the way she thinks. You have good cake? who cares who made it. I don’t care if you spent 6 hours creating it in a wood fired oven with homegrown eggs and home-ground flour, or if you got it from the bakery. All I’m thinking is yay, cake!
Cake is best.
A sentiment my preschoolers definitely agree with! Now to convince Mommy they need cake more than vegetables, lol
carrot cake. Best of both worlds.
“Cake or Death?!!?”
I love me some Eddie Izzard.
Cake, please.
We’re all out of cake! We weren’t expecting such a rush!
Then I’ll have the vegetarian.
Also, imagine you went to your favorite bakery and got a cake for a get together. You brought it and the people there said, “Ugh! You bought a cake! That’s fourth best! It doesn’t matter how it tastes, you didn’t make it right and that’s all that matters! What kind of a lazy idiot can’t make a cake?” That’s lactivists.
A day later, you did the same thing, and this group of people said, “Thanks so much. This is delicious.” That’s Fed is Best.
And when you never, ever hang out with the lactivists ever again, their response is to send out confused tweets about why Fed is Best “touched a nerve,” and became popular. Gee, I wonder.
she wants to know what nerve “fed is best” touched? I know exactly what nerve it touched. It’s right, and she knows it, and she hates it.
also, now I want cake.
So many contradictions, as per usual from a rabid lactivist. The one that stands out to me is the fact that she ingenuously says that SHE doesn’t think there’s actually anything wrong with a mother not wanting to breastfeed, but then by going on to say that breastfeeding is a personal achievement, well clearly she DOES think there’s something wrong with people who don’t breastfeed.
Also formula is NOT a ‘dominant industry’. Not by a fucking long-shot. Not when you consider the fact that lactivists (and NCB advocates) have wormed their way into the fucking healthcare sectors right up into the levels involved with policy making and:
1) Made it REALLY fucking hard for a mother to request and get formula to supplement with whilst she is in the hospital. Especially if the hospital in question is going for BFHI status.
2) The fucking farce that is the ‘Baby-friendly Hospital Initiative.
3) Making it so that formula feeding can’t be talked about in government sponsored antenatal classes (I’m in New Zealand and am not sure what it’s like in other parts of the world, but that is most certainly the case here).
4) Making it so formula can’t even be advertised in magazines, or on TV, and forget fucking discount coupons.
5) Making it so formula manufacturers have to write ON THE FUCKING CAN/BOX that ‘breast is best’ and their product should only be used on medical advice.
Whereas, there are lactation consultants EVERYWHERE and if you’re struggling to breastfeed in the hospital, you’re told to hand express and syringe feed to avoid ‘nipple confusion’ then put on the pumping schedule from hell.
Dominant industry my fucking ass. Ms Brittney needs to pull her fucking head out of her ass and realize we’re not pissed because there are women successfully breastfeeding their kids (yay, go mums?). We’re pissed because there is a certain subset of those breastfeeders who CONDESCENDINGLY tell us we’re feeding our kids something that is suboptimal at best, poison at worse and that we’re setting them up for a lifetime of health issues.
We’re pissed because they look down at us, deride us and dismiss us as lazy, or ‘faulty’ or just LESS. And we’re fucking sick of it. We don’t CARE how you feed your child, as long as they’re getting enough of whatever it is, whether it’s breastmilk, formula, or *gasp* a combination of both.
Also, yeah, you can actually insist that a store-bought cake is better, and require parents to bring them instead of homemade to events when you have allergy sufferers among the children.
Seriously. Whether a store-bought cake is better depends on who’s doing the baking. A cake from Whole Foods is better than some Duncan Hines homemade thing with the quasi-plastic frosting, and it’s probably not just better but also safer than one made by some earth mother who gets her eggs off the ground in her back yard.
Yup. My kids’ school requested this for birthday celebrations. I opted to just not do a school celebration, but my kids love the store bought cake probably more than homemade.
Okay, Brittany, wherever you are, I see your analogy and here’s how it’s stupid. The cake didn’t magically appear at the store–someone made it, likely from scratch. The formula didn’t magically appear at the store, either–teams of people designed it and continue to improve upon that design regularly. Both of these are “personal accomplishments” in that people did them. By your patronage, you contribute to these “personal accomplishments” and allow them to expand into successful businesses that serve other grateful patrons. Then the cake bakers and formula designers get paid and can support their families. EVERYBODY WINS. Including super-breastfeeding moms, who never know how their lives are enriched by those of us who were fed formula and fed it to our babies. Find another way to gloat about your supposed awesomeness.
“Exploit old stories”. Yeah how dare women that have lost babies to preventable causes continue to speak out once the story is a few years old. Its getting in the way of Britney’s ‘achievements’. I’m just waiting for the day someone calls my daughter “an unfortunate outcome” or a “rare anomaly in the data” or an “old story” to my face.
Exactly so. And obviously, ‘old stories’ about episiotomies for all, cs leading to golf, and shaving from neck to knee, are totally different and entirely reasonable to play on a loop.
Eyeroll.
My anesthesiologist and his student (?) discussed golf during my c-section. I found it reassuring, because I knew if there were any problems on that end, they wouldn’t be chatting about golf.
Me too! But in my case, all doctors and nurses were women, and they spent a lot of time discussing which was the best place to get a manicure in the city. If they had time to discuss nail polish, then all was well, right?
Good point. There were definitely no golf discussions at my delivery. It’s not a great sign when the number of medical professionals in the room with you suddenly triples and they all have their game faces on.
THE CAKE IS A LIE!
1. They do not want mothers to celebrate their breastfeeding journey.
WTF is a breastfeeding journey? Celebrations aside, what do they mean “journey”? The walk over to baby while attached to breasts? That kind of journey?
2. They sabotage mothers who clearly state they want to breastfeed.
How? How does MY CHOICE in child nutrition in any way affect you?
3. They are anti science and argue with facts that do not fit their agenda. (Like WHO recommendations.)
Like hypoglycemic seizures and kernicterus are bad for baby brains and if breastmilk is not available (for whatever reason), formula is entirely appropriate?
4. Some “Fed Is Best” ladies are not just pro formula. They’re anti breastfeeding. They exploit old stories for their agenda.
Kinda like how some breast is best “ladies” are bat shit crazy and believe that a dead baby is better than one thriving on formula?
5. Formula feeding is not a personal accomplishment like breastfeeding is.
Breastfeeding is not any more of an accomplishment than urinating into a toilet.
Oh, and CAKE IS AWESOME!
I think the answer to number two is stuff like supporting hospitals giving formula samples or even companies mailing out formula samples. It’s sabotage because, in a “weak” moment, a mom with formula on hand might give formula to her hungry baby. They don’t say it aloud too often, but when they say “breastfeeding,” what they mean is “exclusive breastfeeding.”
As we saw on a previous post, in which a doctor saw a bunch of women breastfeeding with nipple shields and got mad because they shouldn’t use nipple shields, it’s never enough. First you were supposed to breastfeed, then exclusively breastfeed, then breastfeed “until the kid is old enough to ask you to stop.”
It’s almost like breastfeeding is about sating some desire/need in the mother, not about feeding the baby.
You nailed it. It’s like earning merit badges in Girl Scouts. :-/
Didn’t you hear? Girl Scouts are a bunch of man-hating, pro-abortion lesbians.
Mothering? Not for the Girl Scouts, apparently.
At least, that is the fundy-christian reasoning for why you shouldn’t buy Thin Mints
(as opposed to my reasoning, which is, if I buy them, I will eat them, and I need to lose weight; I could just give $20 to the Girl Scouts and not take the cookies, but I don’t think that sounds fair; nope, give me my cookies!)
You shouldn’t buy thin mints because they are laden with things like hydrogenated palm kernel oil. That said, I buy them and enjoy them with relish. What the hell… life is short and they’re delicious : )
Compromise? Buy the cookies, and give the packet to the next homeless person you see?
Are we poor little wimmin truly so weak that we will cave at the mere site of a bottle? I could have gotten free formula (background: many docs can easily get samples of meds or formula or whatever) and somehow I still managed to exclusively breastfeed my kids. The whole “poor weak willed women need protection from whatever” is so damned degrading.
When my oldest was born, a paper came out that discussed differences in breastmilk produced at different times of day (morning was different than evening, etc). I remember thinking (since I worked FT and worked shift), “fuck that! I’m not labeling my frozen breastmilk with time of expression”. Plus, given shift work, 8am could be morning, dinner time, or midnight snack.
My thoughts exactly. Why do they assume women will be powerless before free samples and shiny labels on formula cans? Like there is no decision-making process there at all. It’s absurd, right?
I breastfed until my kids self-weaned, but it still won’t be enough for lactivists. Why? Because despite babies ‘knowing’ when to be born, it’s a “nursing strike, you just need to push through it” when they reject breastmilk at 7 months, 5.5 months, and 9 months (respectively).
To truly get EBF cred, you push through those nursing strikes by scheduling breastfeeding times and enforcing them until the child enters grade school.
I worked at a private school that rented out meeting rooms to an attachment parenting support group that preached and practiced exactly that. They insisted on pulling their preschoolers (3-4 yo) and kindergarteners (5 yo) out of class at certain times of day for breastfeeding breaks.
You can just imagine how well-adjusted their kids were.
That sounds like child abuse to me. The mother is getting so much out of breastfeeding that she won’t let the child stop. I have horrible visions of them pulling their sixteen-year-olds off the pitch in the middle of a game for a scheduled feed…
Apart from the two who had to be switched to formula for health reasons at six weeks and twelve weeks, my others stopped at around eight to nine months. Which was fine by me, since they were already getting most of their calories from solid food anyway.
I’ve heard of number 1 quite a bit – also in connection with birth (one woman in my NCT group was distraught because she was probably going to need a planned c-section and was worried about how she would have a proper “birth journey” if all she had to do was turn up at the hospital like any other surgery patient rather than spend hours labouring in a birth pool scented with essential oils and all that jazz). Your “breastfeeding journey” or “birth journey” sounds impressive and spiritual but all it really is is “I put a lot of work into this dammit and I’m bloody well going to get points for it – regardless as to whether the hell I put myself and my baby through were actually worth it”.
parenting has enough struggles – it’s not like these moms need to make the giving-birth part and the feeding part hard on purpose. If they want something hard so they will have a “journey” to feel all special about, I promise that somewhere along the way being a parent will provide them some hardship. No need to go creating it!
I can kind of understand the “breastfeeding journey thing.” It’s a sophomore philosophy student’s kind of work. I dated a junior philosophy major, so I got to meet several others. His philosophies have matured a bit, thankfully, even with his passion for My Little Pony. 20 years experience and marrying an Empress with her own opinions will do that to a boy.
Formula was an integral part of my breastfeeding journey when my milk came in late. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, lactivists.
Yes. Why don’t lactivists ever ask me about our combo-feeding journey?
I journey from which we came home more than $10000 richer than if we had gone the EBF route….
Formula is more of a journey if you have to travel to the store to get it. But I just ordered online.
I love to cook. It has never occurred to me to resent other people for considering food they could get at a restaurant “just as good.” Her attitude makes me wonder if she actually likes breastfeeding, or if she was hoping someone was going to give her a cookie and a pat on the back.
Only give her a cookie that’s made from scratch. Don’t pretend a store-bought one is just as good.
A fenugreek cookie.
No, no no! Must be a lactation cookie! Please try to keep up./sarcasm
I have made lactation cookies. From scratch. More than once. On purpose!
And no, they didn’t help.
Let’s just say I really bought in to all the breastfeeding woo with my first.
I’m so glad I found this site before my second!
Mum-only snacks to have while breastfeeding is good. I have wondered at times whether the best way to keep older kids and husband out of the cookie-jar would be to label them like that!
Add that to the lactivist lies “lactation cookies taste good”. I’d much rather have regular oatmeal raisin.
Considering that only a home baked cookie can be hot out of the oven a store-bought one will never compare.
Now, that applies just as well to cookies made from absolute scratch where you grind your own flour and grow your own cocoa beans to make chocolate or whether you take them out premade from the Otis Spunkmeyer box in the freezer.
Starbucks cookies are served hot out of the microwave and they are delicious : )
Same with me and handicrafts – I love to knit and sew and a lot of my son’s clothes are either handmade, customised or upcycled by me, purely because its something I like to do. That doesn’t however mean I expect to be lauded as some kind of wonder mother not to be compared with those lesser mortals who clothe their children purely in bought clothes.
I am also fully aware of the fact that as soon as he hits about 3 my son is going to have a very firm opinion about the desirability of wearing anything I can make for him versus the wonderful possibility of being dressed head to foot in Paw Patrol merchandise.
I can report that my son had extremely clear opinions on what he wanted to wear when from about 1 1/2 years onwards. When daycare talks about the importance of practicing object permanence in their reports, I can only laugh. This kid has been able to name his various clothes (especially the unavailable ones) since he could say “Peppa shirt”.
ETA: And no, the 5 different Avengers shirts are not at all equivalent. Only finding the blue one when it’s the red one’s turn is a legitimate reason for a meltdown.
Boy bard only recently got into paw patrol, and he’s about to outgrow most of the merchandise. Tall people problems.
When my son was just turning 2 I knit him a lovely sweater, which turned out to be way too big. My daughter was then 4 1/2 and it fit her but she refused to wear it. Now that son is 4 and he isn’t interested in wearing it either. I’m ticked that I put all that work into something he won’t even consider, though I suppose that’s what I get for making something according to my own tastes. He’s not getting another sweater until he’s old enough to help pick out the yarn and pattern and I feel that his tastes are consistent enough that he’ll actually wear what I make him. Now the baby is huge for his age, so maybe if I’m lucky it’ll kinda fit him when he’s 2 1/2 and he’ll still be pliant enough to wear it.
If you could see the state of my sad attempts at knitting everyone would agree wholeheartedly that by putting my children in store-bought clothes I am indeed being a wonder-mum by not unleashing horrible crimes against crafting on the world. It’s not just for my kids, I’m making this sacrifice for the good of humanity (I actually really enjoy crafting and making things, I’m just dreadful at it).
The way I work, it’s just not practical for me to knit something for the spawn. They’ve both gotten quilts, but they’ll outgrow anyting I knit before I get around to finishing it.
I did make my daughter 2 dresses for the fun of it. One a not-girly dino print and the other a brown-and-gold puppy print.
My mother is one of those that believes anything homemade from scratch is ALWAYS better than anything commercially prepared. She also isn’t exactly what I would call emotionally stable so…
Nobody is made to feel broken or ashamed because they breastfeed. That’s the obvious reason formula feeders need support.
Breastfeeding can be a lot of work, but your birth and feeding choices should be about what’s best for you and your baby. If you want to prove to yourself you can “do hard things” there are ways of doing that that don’t involve your child’s welfare
Exactly this – I never got the whole “birth as accomplishment” thing, it just struck me as entirely self-absorbed, but it seems we’re all expected to view birth and early childcare through this lens. At one point I was reduced to explaining (through gritted teeth) to the midwife at one of my antenatal appointments that if the object of this exercise was to “feel accomplished as a person” I wouldn’t be going through pregnancy I’d be hiking the Inca trail and would not be bringing a completely vulnerable and unconsenting passenger along for the ride.
Note: I am also fully aware of the fact that as soon as he hits about 3 my son is going to have a very firm opinion about the desirability of wearing anything I can make for him versus the wonderful possibility of being dressed head to foot in Paw Patrol merchandise.
Absolutely agree, but the trick when the “hard” way is portrayed as what is best for the child’s welfare is working well. Even in the cases when it’s completely counter-intuitive. I mean, with breastfeeding it’s sort of easy to imagine that breast milk may have some properties that can’t (yet) be replicated in formula. But CS vs VB? You’d think that squashing a baby really really hard, like hard enough to deform their skull for a bit, would not be regarded as doing something that’s wonderful for baby. But somehow the NCB crowd has managed to sell it as doing them a favour health-wise.
The problem with this argument is that whilst baking a good quality cake can reasonably be considered an achievement, lactating cannot. A more apt analogy would be:
It’s like buying lube rather than making your own vaginal secretions and telling the person who put in the effort to make their own vaginal secretions that their store-bought lube is just as good. It’s rude. One is truly an accomplishment; the other is just normal.
Hahaha.But yes.
Making cake is a cultural technique, a skill outside the mammal realm. So annoyed by people who professionalize parenting and breastfeeding in particular. Leave your kids alone and get a hobby.
That is a fantastic analogy from SO many angles.
it’s great and it really captures what’s so silly about feeling breastfeeding is an accomplishment. “My body produced a secretion the way I expected it to! I’m so amazing.” Um, congratulations? My kidneys produce fluid all day every day. So?
This is perfect
I guess the point I was trying to make is that baking a cake is entirely based on skill and effort, whereas a large part of breastfeeding is actually based on a biological function working as it should, which is a matter of luck. I’m unaware of any biological functions that affect your ability to bake a cake to the same extent that biology affects your ability to breastfeed. That’s not to say that there is absolutely no effort involved in breastfeeding, simply that your biology is going to significantly influence how successful your efforts are – unlike cake-baking. And for what it’s worth, establishing and maintaining adequate vaginal lubrication can involve a lot of effort for some women. They need to be very relaxed, engage in psychological and physical foreplay, focus on staying in the moment. They may even need to see a sex therapist to help them achieve this. But, some women, particularly those of a certain age can do all of this and still not produce adequate lubrication. Some could look at the amount of effort required to produce their own when there’s a perfectly good substitute available and choose the store-bought lube. And others still may be perfectly capable of producing their own, but decide that store-bought lube works better for her and her partner.
And producing milk, when it’s not working great for some reason, can also be hard work. Just look at the thriving market for lactation cookies, and the work some mothers put in to increase and maintain milk supply.
I know I did. In hindsight it was idiotic to stress about it so much, and not a wonderful accomplishment, just a lot of pointless effort, even though it worked out in the end.
Yeah, this cake baking analogy just doesn’t work for her.
It is an accomplishment to be able to make a cake _that is as good as one you can buy in a store_!
Most people aren’t able to do that, so that’s why they use store bought cakes.
Is that the comparison she really wants to make? Most people can’t breastfed sufficiently to compare to formula?
OK…..if that’s what she’s saying, she might want to consult with her colleagues about messaging.
What I really hear Brittney saying is she resented breastfeeding and is pissed that it really isn’t that important in a developed country. Just like sometimes homemade cakes, despite all the effort you put in, aren’t appreciated by the 2 and 4 year old guests at your son’s birthday party. They would have much rather had a store bought cake! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0c6abdd5b19d88452c3c6c1d9d1e5168db79eb0bd56978e7ba5bcc6d8d638645.jpg
Never mind the fact that some people aren’t very good bakers, thus the cake that they make from scratch may be of very poor quality compared to the store-bought cake that was made by someone who bakes cakes for a living.
And I’m pretty sure I spent more money on homemade cupcakes than I would have on a sheet cake! Just like I’m pretty sure I spent more on breast pump stuff than I did formula when my son was primarily formula fed. No regrets about the cupcakes though.
They are absolutely amazing! So give yourself a massive pat on the back and a big glass of Rose! I think you’ve hit on a truthful analogy here. I notice Mothers go bonkers over birthday cakes but the kids rarely eat them. They’re usually sugared out by the time the cake comes, a lot of kids don’t like cake much and they just lick the icing off. Often parents stand around eating the cake because they feel bad about how much money was spent or time and effort spent. Amazing birthday cakes are more about impressing other women (for some reason) than impressing the kids. I’ve even seen Mums on FB doing practice cakes weeks before! ANGTFT!!! My most successful birthday cake was a packet cake I messed up trying to do green icing and the kids loved it because it was a “snot cake!”.
For our older son’s 5th birthday party, we did get a really great decorated cake. The party had a Wizard of Oz theme, and the cake was absolutely amazing.
For the kids, we made cupcakes. The cake was for us.
At the party, we also had a visit from Dorothy
http://www.thespiritofoz.com/
We tried to get the Scarecrow (he is AMAZING!) but he had something going on. Nonetheless, Dorothy was (and is) still wonderful, and we had a great time.
(BTW, brag time – we actually knew them before they got all big and famous and had a website and stuff; so to get Dorothy we had to go through back channels to contact her mom….)
Great idea “snot cake”, I’ll steal that!
I enjoy baking cakes from scratch. I bake a number of them a year. I bake them for special occasions and for no occasion at all. I expect zero praise for baking cakes. It’s not an accomplishment. I follow the recipe and there you have it. If I found it difficult or didn’t enjoy it I wouldn’t do it. I don’t believe I’ve ever bought a cake from the store, but when I go to a party where one is served I eat it and enjoy it. My goodness, it’s just not a big deal.
To use Brittney’s comment, “Anyone who cant [sic] follow the instructions in a recipe is incompetent.”
And yet even with the benefit of the recipe, sometimes your baking circumstances just aren’t cut out to produce a quality product – your oven may cook unevenly or the humidity in your kitchen may be too high. Alternatively the recipe can be faulty. It may say “2 eggs” without specifying the size of the eggs. Some people may get lucky and just happen to have the right sized eggs, whereas others may have eggs that are too small or too big. But you can bet that those whose eggs just happened to be the right size will view that as a personal accomplishment instead of the dumb luck it really was.
I’ve tried to make cakes from scratch. I follow my mom’s recipe I found in the church cookbook.
It ends up being a cake, but I don’t remember my mom’s cakes tasting like that. It’s not good.
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. I need to ask her.
A passing look at Pinterest Fails will dispel that notion. Baking is an art and a science. I can follow a recipe, but I still can’t make a cake as good (or as good looking) as a store bought cake made by a professional baker. It doesn’t make me incompetent.
The most switched on and healthy kids in my peer group have parents without breasts. This alone has been enough to convince me that any pro bf messages are likely to be horsesh**. Lactivism is homophobia
When Boy-O turned 1, I baked a cake for his birthday. I did it because I really wanted to – as a young teen, I used to bake cakes with my mum and was semi-decent at decorating them. (I am sure I am the only person in history to decorate a cake with a map of Ronald Reagan’s 1980 electoral college victory). I had fun doing it and the ‘Happy Birthday Boy-O’ was respectable enough, but from then on I have bought them. Mostly because I am thinking about him and I know he really likes those nicely decorated cakes that I would be incapable of producing. It’s not about my ‘parenting journey’, it’s about him. Honestly, some of these lactivists seem to be some of the most selfish people I have ever come across. I can imagine years from now when their kids are giving them trouble, they will break down weeping and tell their kids they did not appreciate how much they went through to breastfeed them!
I can’t be the only one dying to see a photo of the 1980 cake.
LOL, I wish I had one! My mum did take pictures of it, but I haven’t seen those pictures for many years. It was a map of the US states with the Reagan states in blue and the Carter states in red (which was how NBC had depicted them on election night). At the risk of blowing my own horn, I did a very good job on it and it amused the hell out of people who knew me. What a nerdy thing for a 13yo boy to make!
Hey Lactivist, you want to know why fed is best is growing so much and breastfeeding rates have not increased despite the BFHI and the government and other health authorities encouraging / promotioning it heavily?
What you (and BFHI, WHO, AAP, medical professionals, LCs, etc) are telling women does not align with what they have experienced or the realities of their lives.
Most breastfeeding advice is impractical (i.e. exclusively breastfeed for 6 months despite going back to work after 3, no pacifiers despite the fact that as a mother I know they provide comfort to my baby, etc). Myself and my formula fed peers are no more or less healthy on average than my breastfed peers. Despite thousands of studies hypothesizing fewer allergies, obesity, and asthma, my life experience tells me there is no difference.
Its really that simple.
Oh, and just some feedback for any hospital administrators that are considering spending a bunch of money to get BFHI certified. As your target customer, BFHI comes across as disingenuous as Ivanka Trump trying to say she understands the struggles of working moms because she is one. You CANNOT purport to care about women and babies and then turn around close well baby nurseries, require consent forms for formula, and encourage your staff to actively try to “save” women from their decision to either supplement or EFF.
“Personal accomplishment” my ass. Brittany, if you want to accomplish something, earn a degree. Run a marathon. Get a promotion. Do SOMETHING that uses your skills and talents, rather than something that anyone with two X chromosomes can do (Yes, yes guys, low supply, IGT, those are real things. Work with me.)
In a way, it is encouraging. Lactivists will continue to get a bad name as long as people like Brittany are their ambassadors . . . which means that more kids will get supplemented with formula before they get hurt and more mothers will feel happy and secure rather than guilty and exhausted.
This is the ultimate irony. The only people that lactivists are encouraging with posts like what Dr. Amy included are other lactivists. The rest of us be like bye crazy felicia.
As someone who’s never having kids, I see the lactivists as also projecting a message that the only real accomplishment a woman can have is to have kids (in a very specific, horrifying “natural” way), breastfeed for years and then have a life that only revolves around their kids.
I will consider it a “personal accomplishment” if I can get my kids to age 18 and adulthood without fucking them up completely.
I’ve seen my s-i-l fail in that respect. I strive to do better.
So how do we guard our blind spots? I see lots of things in my family of origin that I don’t want to duplicate, and every time I see some technique I like in a family I “steal” it. But how do I become aware of the ways in which I’m screwing up, when I don’t know I’m screwing up?
I wish I knew.
You’re not perfect and-stay with me-your kids aren’t perfect either.
Both mine got to 18 without being completely fucked up. I have almost no views about parenting except: be kind to yourself, and be kind to the kids. Be consistent. Be a guide and leader, not a friend. Know they learn most from what you do, not what you say.
The fact that you want to do your best for them will take you very far along a good road. They will feel that and it will mean the world to them.
“5. Formula feeding is not a personal accomplishment like breastfeeding is.”
It’s last on the list, but it’s there. Wait long enough and the viciousness comes out.
Something over which you have no physical control is NOT a personal accomplishment. Period.
Who are you to say what and why is an accomplishment? Who do you think you are?
Is urinating an accomplishment? Should I go belittle all the people on dialysis because my kidneys work?
Caring for a child, whether with formula or breastmilk, is an accomplishment.
I agree sorry I misinterpreted your first comment☺
I think I was very uncharitable with your comment, so we’re even. Glad we worked it out!
There are breastfeeding moms who work hard to establish supply, get the baby to latch, and pump while they are separated to maintain supply. The passive making of the milk isn’t the accomplishment–it’s the effort that is required–in some cases a lot of it–to continue lactation and continue getting the milk into one’s child.
I do think that maintaining my supply by managing to pump milk for 9 months while working at a job that did not facilitate taking pump breaks was a personal accomplishment on my part, even though the actual making of the milk was a passive process that I had no direct control over. Now whether accomplishing this was worth it was a separate question. But I worked hard to do this.
Just because breastmilk and formula are comparable nutrition-wise doesn’t mean that we should trivialize the work that is done by breastfeeding mothers to breastfeed.
Formula feeding can be a real pain too (I know, we do both now) and I don’t think trivializing that is constructive either.
Agree. I found both formula feeding and pumping to be a PITA, for the sole reason that I resent anything that creates more dishes to wash. Washing dishes is the one chore that I hate to the very core of my being. I will do anything to get out of washing dishes. I will clean the bathroom, do taxes, organize the Closet Of Doom (every house has one) before I wash the dishes.
Did I mention that we did not have a dishwasher when I was breastfeeding? We have one now, and I swear it is mankind’s greatest invention.
I spent many years being an utterly sanctimonious arsehole about dishwashers and admit to previously thinking they were a ridiculous luxury for horribly lazy people. Then I moved into a home with one installed. Since then, they are literally my favourite thing in my kitchen. Especially since having babies. Pre-dishwasher owning me was an idiot. They are *amazing*.
I have a galley style kitchen and the time between our dishwasher being broke and replaced was miserable. All our counterspace was dedicated to drying dishes.
Me too. I have no idea what was wrong with me.
Also rice cooker (omg never boils over, can make soup in it, and cook legumes, and steam vegetables) and a food processor. I was an idiot for two solid decades, if not longer.
Yeah, all the dishes really gets to me too. If I were a SAHM, breastfeeding would be hella easy. I never had issues with supply or latching with any of my babies. I would just have to pump on the occasion that we were separated and doing it every once in a while is nbd to me, but doing it every day multiple times a day is a real grind.
I can almost understand how these people get to feeling this way. With my first, I pumped around the clock for 7 months and it was hard work for very little milk and a lot of emotional stress. When I finally really looked at the primary literature sources myself, I was pissed that they weren’t as robust as I’d been led to believe (even in my medical education). I realized my error and changed how I looked at things but it was hard to admit that all the work I’d done was for little benefit to my child. Some people are unwilling to admit that their views might be wrong, so they cling to them and focus on the process they’ve gone through rather than the outcome and its true benefits. I certainly don’t forgive their feelings towards formula feeders but I can kind of understand the cognitive dissonance that gets them there.
Putting your baby’s well being over your pride is personal accomplishment.
I love store bought cake.
(So do my kids.)
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that store bought cake is MILES BETTER than any cake I could ever make.
My sister is amazing at making cakes. She can do the whole process, from the sculpting to the frosting to the finishing decorative touches. She made a cake in the shape of a bottle of white-out to celebrate going to college, a full cake scale model of St Basil’s cathedral to celebrate my other sister’s Fullbright, a credit-card cake for my brother’s degree, a wet muskrat for me going off to college (the first thing my brother thought when she asked him to describe me). She made our multi-tiered wedding cake, FCOL, and it was gorgeous.
So, you know, she can make a cake from scratch better than a store-bought cake. In our analogy, here, she’s the person who can breastfeed easily and has tons of supply. And she’s the exception. Me? I’ll do a cake if I have time and a real vision, but it won’t be as good as hers, and I’ll just as happily get a store-bought cake. I’m the combo feeder. It’s almost like we should do what works best for us, both overall and in the moment!
Another layer to the analogy. I hate cakes that look like something. To me they don’t register as food, so I have no appetite for them. When you cut into them, they often have too much frosting in one place or their odd shape causes them to be overbaked in another. I’m not insulting your sister’s skills. I’m sure she’s fantastic. But would you give me a beautiful elaborate cake from your sister, or grab me an ordinary round chocolate cake from a bakery? Obviously the latter.
Some babies like formula or bottles. Some like breastmilk but are hungry without supplementation. Some do best with a boob. Pretending one solution works for all kids is as silly as pretending there is a “best” kind of cake that everyone has to like.
I know right? Getting the decoration to cake ratio correct seems to often go out the window. Also, I prefer a sponge type cake, and often the cake needs to be more substantial to hold up all the decoration. So I don’t enjoy it as much for that reason either.
This is another example of how lactivists confuse process with outcome. Cake made from scratch requires more effort and is, at least on its face, more time-consuming. That’s what is important, not, “Does anyone want to put it in their mouth,” or, “Do people enjoy it.”
Someone needs to acquaint her with the “Nailed it” meme. Which of the following would you rather eat?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4a62e7c1e35c980142f9030d38ab8a1b781c2071e3c5b1d7ad5d9fc302328c82.jpg
Brittany needs to stop looking at her own breasts for a while and start looking around at babies.
Especially those babies who have special needs.
For us moms with special needs babies, formula feeding can be one hell of a journey – and Brittany’s asinine spouting about how easy it is to make and feed formula makes her sound like a petulant child.
Try feeding a baby who has to eat in a left-side lying position with his body at about 35 degrees. Your left hand has to keep him on his side – so that leaves the right hand to gently push his cheeks in and hold the bottle. (My son’s always been on the skinny side and needed feeders to simulate fat pads on his cheeks.) Oh, wait. I forgot. The bottle has to be at a certain angle to pace the flow correctly. Got it? Ok, now hold this position for the 20 minutes it takes for him to drink two ounces.
Ever played the calories vs. reflux game? Babies need calories. Fat is the best way to provide lots of calories. Fat worsens reflux which increases the amount of calories lost to barfing and decreases the baby’s desire to eat. Which formula will you pick? Made to what calorie level?
Oh, hey. Did I mention that as the baby grows, reflux gets worse if the bottle nipple size is too small – but the next size up changes the angle at which you need to hold the bottle? Time to play “which angle does Spawn need today?”
But yeah. I’m totally going to “ooh” and “aww” over the fact that you breastfeed a healthy term baby.
Lactivists are so inconsistent with their arguments. When they’re encouraging a woman to breastfeed, it is the easiest thing in the world. “Why would you go to the effort of making a bottle and remembering to bring formula and nipples with you everywhere if you can just pop a few buttons?” But when they’re shaming women for using formula, breastfeeding is hard and thus so much more virtuous than formula feeding. “Formula feeding is not a personal accomplishment like breastfeeding is.” So which is it? Is breastfeeding easy or is it hard? Or is it easy when you need to convince people to breastfeed and hard when you need to feel superior?
PS
There is nothing wrong with buying a cake.
Sure, we can make our own cakes and whatnot. But if we want something good, we buy it. From people who are, you know, experts at making cakes.
Or there’s some other sort of problem with making a cake from scratch. I can make a kick ass cake, but if you need anything other than the simplest of decorating, I’m out of my league. My cakes taste great but look like shit. Some people don’t have working ovens. Some ovens work, but they have hot spots so cakes don’t bake evenly. Some people’s ovens work fine, but they don’t have a good stand mixer, or a rubber spatula, or cake pans that aren’t rusty.
Now that I’m thinking about it, this could be an excellent, nearly step by step analogy, pairing what you need to bake a cake from scratch to some of the problems that can arise when breastfeeding.
I’m a bit the same. Can whip up a cake of your (or my) choice pretty easily, but if you want more than a dusting of icing sugar or cocoa, some whipped cream or some butter icing, then I’m out.
Earlier this week I made a sultana cake to take to my parents’ house. We had some there, I left some for them, gave some to my brother and his wife, and bought the rest home. First thing my husband did with the slice he cut was put a thick layer of Betty Crocker pre-made chocolate icing on it.
Leaving aside how improbably good Betty Crocker pre-made chocolate icing is, was I cranky that he put bought frosting on the cake? I was not. Did I see it as a slight on my cake making or decorating? I did not. Did I think it a weird and improbable combination? Yes. Did I try it? No.
I can do basic buttercream or cream cheese icing, and can do okay with simple fondant as long as the cake is a basic rectangle or circle. I did my sister’s wedding cake, but it didn’t have any real cake decorations. Once I got it constructed, she just wanted sprigs of coffee flowers and coffee beans placed artistically around the cake. That meant I didn’t even have to do a super nice job with the icing itself. The one issue was that she wanted cream cheese icing and that’s super soft, which meant there was a better than average chance of the cake falling, so I made them do mock pictures before the reception just in case. It did wind up leaning a bit, but didn’t fall.
Fondant is great but I know I would end up with more of it on me, all kitchen surfaces, and any other creature in my orbit than on the cake.
Cream cheese icing is soft and also heavy (as in weight, not texture, I love it on carrot cake) so makes the cake more prone to collapse. I had a good recipe for an icing with whipped egg whites, which is delicious but many steps to make (more than the cake from memory) but it does look impressive and hold quite well.
I think I shall make a chocolate cake for the weekend, husband can have it with Betty Crocker frosting, I will have it with icecream.
My sister’s wedding cake was a carrot cake, which is why she was so insistent on cream cheese icing.
Side note: Carrot cake is basically indestructible.
I have NEVER made a scratch cake. I’ve made them from a box, but mostly that’s so the kids could help. Almost 60 and missing out on the glories of scratch-cake baking. I could weep.
This. I love making my own cakes. And I really appreciate it when my stepkids’ stepdad says they’re good and well made: That’s because he’s a professional confiseur. And if the occasion really calls for a superb cake I get one made by him.
Loving amateurism is nice, but pro skill is a different kettle of fish.
This is really what it is about, isn’t it?
Then again, I am still confused. Breastfeeding is easy and natural and women have evolved to do it. So if you breastfeed, you deserve credit for your personal accomplishment?
That one stood out to me. Because NO it’s NOT. It’s one of two good ways of feeding your baby.
Yep, it’s the old have-it-both-ways. Breastfeeding is easy and natural and free and every woman should do it, because bottle feeding is horribly intrusive and difficult and expensive and has so many steps. But at the same time, breastfeeding is a struggle and doing it is a personal accomplishment, not like those lazy bottle-feeding moms who just read the instructions off of the can.
Again. And again. And again, see C/S vs VB.
You don’t get it, do you? Breastfeeding is a struggle because it’s so hard to stay a real woman for whom it is easy and natural in this evil world where temptations lurk just around the corner in the form of happy formula-feeding mothers and free samples of formula in the hospitals, let alone all these cans IN THE SHOPS WHERE YOU BUY THE INGREDIENTS OF THE PURE FOOD YOU PUT IN YOUR PURE FAMILY’S MOUTHS!
SMH. Are you really this dumb?
right? If it’s soooo natural and how our bodies were meant to function and all that, why do women need so much help and support in order for it to work? Why do you need lactation consultants and teaching and guidance? Why are they so afraid that the least hint of formula, or a pacifier, or even having a formula sample in the house, will keep the whole thing from working?
And why do they need praise and accolades for doing it?
We praise our children when they learn to go peepee in the potty. Is it like that? Are women like toddlers, that we need to praise them like toddlers?
(and they call OBs condescending?)
Well, Brittany summed up her point pretty clearly in the middle of her first thought experiment.
From the standpoint of infant well-being, either feeding method is fine.
From the standpoint of maternal showmanship, Brittany wants lots of gratuitous praise for having a “breastfeeding journey. ”
Nope. I’m not obligated to give you positive feedback because you breast fed.