Mothering monster: the narcissism and cruelty of letting your child get whooping cough

Woman kissing the mirror

Who lets her toddler get whooping cough and then boasts about how she breastfed him though it? A self-absorbed, self aggrandizing narcissistic parent. Someone like Shayla Cherry.

It’s difficult for me to describe the cruelty, stupidity and lack of self-awareness of a mother like Cherry so I’ll let her describe it herself.

The true sign of Shayla Cherry’s narcissism is that she is boasting about the horror that she caused.

From How Breastfeeding Saw Us Through the 100-Day Cough:

Rye was 18 months old when he contracted pertussis. I can’t begin to imagine how terrifying that would have been if, like nine out of ten babies, he was weaned already…

How terrifying it would have been? It wouldn’t have been terrifying at all if her child had been fully vaccinated because he wouldn’t have gotten whooping cough. But Shayla had “done her research” and is proud of herself for depriving him of that protection.

From The Risks of Routine Vaccination: Why I Don’t Vaccinate My Son:

I discovered that the diseases are less likely to harm my son than the vaccines themselves. Adverse reactions and chronic illnesses are far more common than serious complications from the diseases we vaccinate against.

There is nearly zero risk of an American child catching diphtheria or polio.

Despite all of the fear-mongering around polio, it’s generally asymptomatic. When symptoms do appear, they are usually flu like. Fewer than one percent of people who contract polio experience paralysis.

Whooping cough can be treated with Vitamin C…

Cherry is sublimely confident in her ignorance.

As it was, our bout with whooping cough was brutal, but never dangerous…

The truth is dramatically different.

As the CDC notes:

Before pertussis vaccines became widely available in the 1940s, about 200,000 children got sick with it each year in the United States and about 9,000 died as a result of the infection. Now we see about 10,000 to 40,000 cases reported each year and unfortunately up to 20 deaths.

Whooping cough is not merely dangerous; it’s deadly.

Fortunately, Cherry’s son did not die but he suffered tremendously and unnecessarily.

One week in and my son’s cough was only getting worse. We were up all night as he began coughing every hour, on the hour. He developed a sharp, desperate inhale; a characteristic whoop every mother hopes to never hear. I began researching pertussis with a sinking heart. Little did I know, we were in for a long and exhausting winter.

The next month was spent indoors as whooping cough tore through our home. Our days were filled with movies, cuddled together in our cozy haze. Sometimes when the coughing woke him at night, he was so exhausted that he’d fall back to sleep without nursing…

On our bed propped on an incline, we slept in fifty-minute bursts. We welcomed play at 2am in the dim hallway light when a coughing fit left him wide awake.

The child was desperately and needlessly sick for months and his mother is still focused on herself and the “benefits” she provided him by breastfeeding:

He would have lost every ounce of baby fat. We may have needed to go to urgent care for an IV, and who knows where that would have led — secondary infection, pneumonia, antibiotics…

There’s no reason to believe that breastfeeding did any of that. The baby could have just as easily bottle fed for comfort and nutrition. Breastfeeding didn’t prevent whooping cough in the first place; why should it be counted on in preventing secondary infection?

Cherry’s narcissism hasn’t merely blinded her to the fact that she subjected her toddler to a potentially deadly illness because her ego led her to imagine that she knew more about vaccines than nearly every single medical professional in the entire world.

Her narcissism hasn’t merely made her oblivious to the fact she is the one responsible for son’s suffering, not the one who prevented it.

The true sign of her overweening sense of self regard is that she is boasting about the horror that she caused.

Though I was more tired than I’ve ever been and my own health hasn’t quite recovered, I am immeasurably grateful for the gift of breastmilk. I was able to nourish and protect my son, even in the depths of my exhaustion. So, if you’re nursing a toddler and want to continue, I hope sharing my story helps you to trust your instincts. Do what is right for you and your child, as mothers have done for aeons.

Cherry learned nothing … but then narcissists never do.

  • MaineJen

    We’re still waiting breathlessly to hear the exact nature of your miracle cure for testicular cancer. Now’s your chance! Stick it to us once and for all. Tell us what you could have done for Lance Armstrong that medical science couldn’t do.

    • Peter Harris

      Do you really think I’m gonna discuss naturopathy with you?
      You don’t even understand the basics of conventional medicine, a medical model you claim to represent and support. And you wilfully lie about non-existing cures within conventional medicine. Like many here, you’re just a infantile dreamer, who you think that if you post nonsensical comments on a website like this, it gives you some superficial credibility in medical circles.

  • N

    Yes, they did. They named a lot of diseases that are cured through modern medicine. Even Dr. Tuteur did. While you only laugh at that and send smileys. But you don’t explain why you laugh at it, or what you can cure with your methods. Don’t you believe in the fact that those people are cured, or don’t you believe that they were ill in the first place? The child in our street cured from leucemia is real, you know? What about it is laughable? Was he not ill? Does he not still live now? 6 years later? Do antibiotics not cure ear infections better and faster than natural remedies? By the way, my FIL is almost deaf now at age 80 because of ear infections as toddler, not cured at that time with antibiotics.

  • MaineJen

    It’s not our fault you’re too gormless to use Disqus.

    • Peter Harris

      Huh?
      Stupid non sequitur, yes?

  • MaineJen

    Okay then. Which specific diseases have you cured, in your professional life?

    • Peter Harris

      No no no, don’t be a coward, and try and turn the argument around, just to avoid answering it.
      The question is firmly placed on you, and the made for profit pharmaceutical / medical industrial complex.

      • MaineJen

        The success of modern medicine is well documented. You’ll notice people no longer die in droves of measles, whooping cough, diphtheria, or countless other vaccine-preventable infectious diseases. HIV has become more of a chronic condition than a death sentence thanks to HAART therapy. Childhood leukemia has something like an 80% cure rate, when only 50-60 years ago the best we could do for those children was send them home to die.

        I repeat my question to you. What diseases have you cured with your snake oil nonsense?

        • Peter Harris

          What do you expect.
          You ask a simple question on these radically unhinged websites, and you get infantile prolix and outright lies.
          None of those diseases you mentioned, have been cured / eliminated.

          • MaineJen

            And still, you do not answer.

          • Peter Harris

            What a gormless fool you are, that’s exactly my point.

          • MaineJen

            What. Diseases. Have. You. Cured?

          • Peter Harris

            Sorry when I called you gormless, I meant to just say how straight up stupid you are.

            What. Diseases. Have. You. Cured?

          • N

            They already gave you some diseases that can be cured through modern medicine. I know a child that survived leucemia. Another child that does just fine with diabetes thanks to modern techniques, like some kind of round patch on his arm that mesures bloodsugar and helps control it. And don’t tell me they would’nt have suffered or still suffer those diseases if they were not vaccinated or treated only with homeopathy. It just is not true.
            A couple of months ago, in Italy/Europe a 7 year old boy died of an ear infection, because the parents refused antibiotics and treated the ear infection wuth homeopathy and special foods or so.

          • MaineJen

            Smallpox

          • Peter Harris

            It seems like monstrous lies are the default position here.

            “Deaths from smallpox through­out the world showed a signifi­cant increase last year, the World Health Organization re­ported today. It said there were 25,544 deaths between Jan. 1 and Nov. 29, compared with 14,737 deaths in all of 1962.”

            https://www.nytimes.com/1964/02/15/smallpox-deaths-increase.html

          • MaineJen

            1964, sweetie. Try again.

          • Peter Harris

            100 years after they developed a vaccine for smallpox, correct?
            So what does it say about your claim that smallpox was eradicated by vaccines?
            Oh wait, that’s a lie too.

          • MaineJen

            *Looks around for people dying of smallpox in 2018*

          • Peter Harris

            So you admit, that 100 years + vaccines didn’t eliminate smallpox? Good to know.

          • MaineJen

            So what eliminated it? Go on, tell us. I mean, I know you think naturopathy is hopelessly beyond a dullard like me, but just for the benefit of our more intelligent commenters. Indulge us! Dispense a bit of wisdom! What eliminated smallpox?

          • Peter Harris

            You reductionist simpletons are just too much.
            It was a whole range of initiatives, public awareness programs by government.
            However, generally speaking, it was down to better hygiene in every aspect of the human environment.

          • MaineJen

            Ding ding ding! We have ‘hygiene.’

            I call bingo!

          • Peter Harris

            The type of unintelligible and monosyllabic answer I would’ve expected from someone who is self-described as a simpleton.

          • Peter Harris

            And by the way, don’t call me sweetie, you’re way too old for me.

          • MaineJen

            Bless your heart, dearie. Would you care for a Werther’s?

          • Who?

            Funny about PH’s fussiness re being called ‘sweetie’ when he is so very rude himself.

            Though he clearly isn’t at all sweet, so it’s factually incorrect to call him that.

          • MaineJen

            I know, I just can’t help myself. It riles him up so.

          • Peter Harris

            I’ll help you out a little bit here.
            Are the following diseases close to being cured? 1 diabetes, 2 arthritis, 3 heart disease, and how about cancer?

          • MaineJen

            1. Diabetes is managed through diet, exercise AND synthetic insulin, which saves millions of lives every year.
            2. Autoimmune conditions like arthritis are difficult to treat but can be managed with medication and exercise.
            3. Heart disease can be detected and treated early, and corrected surgically if needed.

            Have you managed to cure these 3 conditions? If so, why are you wasting time here? Why not share your miracle cure with the masses?

          • Peter Harris

            Thank you for confirming my point all along, that while the pharmaceutical / industrial Medical Complex cannot, and will not cure diseases, they much prefer to “treat” peoples symptoms, because that’s where the profits are.
            There are of course, no profits in cures.

          • MaineJen

            How would you cure diabetes, arthritis, or heart disease using only natural remedies?

            I’ll wait.

  • Who?

    Off topic, but considering PH has introduced quackery into the mix, I couldn’t resist Jen Guntner drawing attention to Dr Oz’s latest…

    Mind you don’t run out of airquotes!

    https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2018/05/08/dr-oz-removes-warning-about-fake-psychics-being-from-places-like-romania/

    • Peter Harris

      And what problems do you have with Dr Oz?
      Because he’s not a lap dog, and flunky for the made for profit medical industrial complex?

      • Sue

        Why is it that pretend “doctors” seem to admire other scammers? Role models, I guess.

        • Peter Harris

          You still haven’t explained what the problem is with Dr Oz, this time, engage your prefrontal cortex when you answer.

          • Sue

            The spammer who is abusive of strangers on a blog asks others to engage executive functions. Irony much?

          • Peter Harris

            More ignorant and stupid comments…
            Nothing intellectually here, or accurate… try again.

          • tomonthebay

            Chi’s description of you is spot on Peter or whatever your real name is.

          • Peter Harris

            So says Tom Thumb hahaha.

            No surprise, you support this wacky website that is just another outlet for the misanthropes such as yourself.

            Anyway, I thought you stopped talking to me.

          • tomonthebay

            When someone nails you so accurately I just can’t resist supporting them.

          • Peter Harris

            You are really not the sharpest tool in the shed are you.

            You go by a false name, where as I have my real name, needless to say, I had to point that out… just for the blunt pecker in the tool shed.

            So now that I have your attention Tom Thumb, tell me, which diseases have been eliminated with decades of Pharmaceutical drugs?

          • Chi

            Yes, what PH is doing is a classic form of ‘sea-lioning’.

            For those not familiar with the term:

            Sea lioning (also spelled sealioning and sea-lioning) is a type of Internet trolling which consists of bad-faith requests for evidence, or repeated questions, the purpose of which is not clarification or elucidation, but rather an attempt to derail a discussion or to wear down the patience of one’s opponent. The troll who uses this tactic also uses fake civility and feigns offense so as to discredit their target.

          • MaineJen

            And don’t forget: To never, ever, under any circumstances, answer a direct question. When in doubt: insult, redirect, obfuscate.

      • Damo

        Actually, he is a surgeon. And a very successful one at that. He just find a way to make additional income–and doesn’t seem to have any shame about it.

  • Sue

    The constant complaint of the quack – competent science shows that their entire field is invalid, quack, who has never done any original research in their life, criticises scientific method.

    Ha ha ha indeed.

    BTW – scientific medicine isn’t “allopathic” – it’s multimodal. That term is used by people stuck in the times of Hahnemann – although the internet didn’t exist then.

  • Sue

    So much for the “gentle, holistic” approach of the sCAMmer. What a nasty piece of work.

    Oh, and also, there is plenty of evidence to debunk most of the modalities used in Naturopathy:

    Unnecessary supplements:
    http://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/1789253/enough-enough-stop-wasting-money-vitamin-mineral-supplements

    Homeopathy:
    Debunking literature too voluminous to publish here

    “Live BLood Analysis”:
    https://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_pseudoscience_of_live_blood_cell_analysis

    “Adrenal Fatigue”:
    Adrenal fatigue does not exist – a systematic review
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997656/

    Anything else I can help you with? It’s always useful to be able to correct and debunk misinformation in public.

    • Who?

      I know right. For someone who flogs love, light and healing, PH is awfully cranky.

      As an aside I assume he works and dispenses for free, since to make a profit or indeed an income is quite the outrage, apparently. Maybe he pays people to come to him? What a generous soul.

      • Peter Harris

        “I know right. For someone who flogs love, light and healing, PH is awfully cranky.”

        Of course, bias claptrap.
        Have you read Dr Sickie and Gorski’s diatribes recently?

        • Who?

          What do you charge for a consultation?

          What do you charge to ‘dispense’ what you prescribe? What’s your markup on those products?

          How much money do you get back from private health insurers? Bearing in mind that doctors get absolutely zero from them for in-room consultations.

          You raised moneymaking as an issue. Let’s see if you have the integrity to respond with numbers.

        • Christopher Hickie

          Wow petey, you must have a waterproof keyboard to keep all that spittle and froth that flies off you mouth while you type from ruining it. Have a nice life, loser.

          • Peter Harris

            As I keep pointing out, the limbic system driven knuckle-draggers, are totally bereft of a cogent argument, rather, they rely on cheap schoolyard ad hominem and non-sequiturs, by way of disguising the fact that they are intellectual simpletons.

            So, no counter argument from you, as to my allegations and facts regarding the nefarious Pharmaceutical/Medical industrial Complex?

          • Sue

            So, all these abusive posts, and not a single bit of evidence that he has cured anyone of anything.

            Thought not.

          • Peter Harris

            I cure all my patients, who come to me after being abused and ripped off by the mainstream medical industry.
            As long as they follow my regime strictly, then they will be guaranteed recovery and a better lifestyle.

            And just who have you cured, Sue “guest”?

          • Sue

            “I cure all my patients” says the spammer who provides a scam “guarantee”. Out clause for those who don’t “follow my regime strictly”, of course. It’s their fault that they don’t get better. Let’s guess – that’s everyone?

            Maybe that’s why his business is so quiet.

            This is hilarious, from the discus-user whose account is “private”.

          • Peter Harris

            The cabal of nonsense makers, really are in the category of their own, it is the too stupid to realise they are too stupid.

            You’re complaining that my account is private?!
            My god, you have a fake name and you come up as “Guest.” so you don’t really have a disqus account at all!
            I keep my account private, because I’ve had morons like you trying to dox me.
            At least you know my name, and my location, unlike you and others around here.

          • Who?

            Noting it’s private, not complaining. Lucky you only dispense sugar water and platitudes, given your poor cognition.

            Ready to tell us yet how much you make conning people?

          • Peter Harris

            My word, given the fact that many of the unintelligible fools on this website, with their accompanying low/no level of medical knowledge, it’s any wonder it’s not taken seriously by even mainstream medicine.

          • Who?

            That’s a no then…

          • Peter Harris

            Oh, so you play that childish game do you?
            Ok then, in that case, you are the unintelligible fool I was referring to, after all, you didn’t deny it.

          • Who?

            Tell us about your fees for ‘service’, your markup on what you prescribe, and how much you get out of the private health insurance system here in Australia.

            Since you object to people being paid for their work, I’m sure you work for free.

          • Peter Harris

            And the stupid questions keep rolling in… so tell us, what area of medical science do you work in?

          • Who?

            None. Never did. Never claimed to.

            Tell me how much you make ‘helping’ people and why that’s okay and doctors being paid isn’t.

            And assure me that whatever you ‘prescribe’ isn’t manufactured by the Big Pharma you claim do despise, since most vitamins and supplements are.

            Did you have a point?

          • Peter Harris

            I see, as I thought, a good old-fashioned troll, who doesn’t even have the courage to have his own disqus account.

          • Who?

            That’s a no, then.

            So is the trouble you have no clients, or that your profits are so embarrassingly large you aren’t prepared to disclose them to people who you seem to think should work for free?

          • Peter Harris

            “That’s a no, then.”

            The idiocy continues… you can think what you want.

          • Who?

            Game, set and match.

            Thanks for playing-come back when your form improves, if ever.

            I’ll save you the trouble of repying, shall I?

            ‘Guilles fool, limbic summink, untelligible cabal blurgh, so unfair you don’t take me seriously, I know all about basements….’

            You’re welcome.

          • Peter Harris

            I bet you spend a lot of time working on that reply… hahaha

          • MaineJen

            WOW. That’s a bold statement. You cure all of your patients? Of what? Their extra cash?

          • N

            Name or describe at least one disease you cured.

    • Peter Harris

      Of course, change the subject rapidly, in order to defect away from your stupidity and lies…

      And how do you achieve that?
      By posting more lies.

    • Peter Harris

      All biased nonsense from the pharmaceutical/medical industrial complex…
      Again, what has the butchering “doctors” cured?

  • Christopher Hickie

    Say what? How do we know you’re not some sock, since you never tell us anything about your life, Peter

    • Peter Harris

      Oh, so I was right, you were posting under “Guest.”
      So typical of you courageous “doctors.”

      Me?
      I’m a Naturopath operating in Australia.
      It’s you cranks, criminals and frauds who give me a lot of business, because many of my clients, after years of being treated by quacks such as yourself, come to me for a cure, which I happily administer successfully.

      • Christopher Hickie

        Oh–so in truth you’re a naturoquack scamming marks with ridiculous nonsense and lies. Thanks for the clarification, Peter, and for letting me know what a mental midget you are. Quacks like you aren’t qualified to raise sea monkeys, let alone see patients. As jackals like you keep trying to ruin vaccination rates in my state (there’s an abysmal naturoqack “college” in AZ), I have nothing but pure loathing for your lot. And as for me and other allopaths “murdering” people–the illogical nature of your assertion given population trends and death rates in pediatric populations shows clearly that most 1st graders think more rationally than you. Perhaps the one bright point here is that if you keep up your silly tirades, the Australian govt might just see that your license is pulled, as they have done with other anti-vaxxers. So please keep at it and I’ll start forwarding your comments to the pro-vax groups in your country for proper processing.

        • Peter Harris

          “And as for me and other allopaths “murdering” people…”

          Here are just two examples, let me know, because I can give you dozens more…

          “The Grunenthal files expose a 50-year global cover-up and demolish the company’s long-held position that the scandal was unforeseeable tragedy and that its ”actions were consistent with the state of scientific knowledge and prevailing standards of the 1950s”.
          The files reveal that for at least two years before the drug was banned in late 1961, German medical professionals had told Grunenthal staff of concerns that children’s deformities were caused by women taking thalidomide during pregnancy.
          Between 1959 and 1961 – while the drug was still being marketed as safe – Grunenthal employees and their families began having deformed babies.”

          https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-50-year-global-cover-up-20120725-22r5c.html

          “Now researchers have alleged that Merck knew of the dangers years earlier, but tweaked statistics and hid data so that regulators remained in the dark.”

          https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13685-drug-giant-merck-accused-of-deaths-cover-up/

          • Sue

            Scientific medicine – enormous world-wide benefits with some poor practice at the margins.

            Naturopathy – enormous expenditure by the vulnerable for marginal benefit – and no evidence-based therapy that isn;t already available in the conventional health system.

            Customers of naturopaths – those who want simplistic answers and want to be sold a “remedy”. Those services virtually guaranteed.

          • Peter Harris

            Ha ha ha…
            Once again, the intellectually bereft cannot even pluck up the courage to use their own Disqus account, and instead come up as “guest.”

            “Scientific medicine – enormous world-wide benefits…”

            Of course, that’s a nefarious lie.
            Name one disease that has been cured in recent times, through “Scientific medicine”?

          • Sue

            Name one disease that has been cured in recent times, through “Scientific medicine”?

            Pneumococcal meningitis.

            Your turn: Name one disease that has ever been cured through any modality of “naturopathy” that isn’t already cured through scientific medicine (not pseudo-diagnoses like ‘adrenal fatigue’, thanks).

          • Peter Harris

            Of course, you being a Quack, you’re an ignorant liar.

            http://allghananews.com/western-region-reports-one-case-of-pneumococcal-meningitis/

            Any more lies?

          • Sue

            “He said the Service had anti-biotics to manage the case.”

            QED.

            What is the naturopathic approach to pneumococcal meningitis?

          • Peter Harris

            And so often, we see the moronic allopaths twisting and turning an argument into semantic nonsense.

            Clearly, you lied when I asked for a cure.

          • Who?

            Attend the funeral and slip a likely looking survivor the bill, while bemoaning the carelessness of the deceased in failing to either follow instructions to the letter or provide some unasked for but ultimately critical piece of information.

          • MaineJen

            I don’t think you’re going to get an answer either.

          • Peter Harris
          • Daleth

            Name one disease that has been cured in recent times, through “Scientific medicine”?

            Testicular cancer. Up through the 1970s it was extremely lethal, killing 85% of the men who got it. It was especially horrible because unlike most cancers, it primarily strikes young men (18-40 years old).

            Since doctors started using cisplatin chemotherapy to treat it, 80% of men with metastatic testicular cancer and 99% of men with early-stage cancer survive. Chemo cured Lance Armstrong of it even though it had already metastacized to his liver, lungs and brain.

            Here’s a link: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1749-771X.2008.00060.x

            So, right there you’ve got about 8000 lives a year saved in America alone for the past 40 years, or around 320,000 men who are only alive because of “scientific medicine.” About the same number have been saved in Europe and Canada. Try telling them that “scientific medicine” doesn’t cure.

            Do you want me to go on?

          • Daleth

            And of course there’s also tuberculosis. TB left my grandma motherless when she was a toddler, and also killed her aunt–two healthy sisters gone before the age of 35. That was very normal then, so much so that Europe and America were dotted with sanitariums where people with TB went to die (or with luck, recover).

            That doesn’t happen anymore, except in countries too poor to access “scientific medicine.”

          • swbarnes2

            I read a blog post, or something like that, about a person working in an area of a hospital dedicated to palliative care of people dying of advanced AIDS. And then, that area closed up shop, because protease inhibitors were for many making HIV infection a mostly manageable chronic condition, instead of an ugly death sentence.

          • Peter Harris

            “Do you want me to go on ?”

            Hilarious.

            It’s just extraordinary, but not surprising, how ignorance and arrogance can create such ridiculous nonsensical arguments, point in case….

            Let me give you a simple, man/woman in the street, definition of cure. It means the complete elimination of disease and the symptoms.

          • MaineJen

            How would you completely eliminate testicular cancer, using only natural remedies?

            I’ll wait.

          • Daleth

            Let me give you a simple, man/woman in the street, definition of cure.
            It means the complete elimination of disease and the symptoms.

            And that’s what happens with testicular cancer these days, thanks to cisplatin chemotherapy. 20+ years ago Lance Armstrong’s testicular cancer was completely eliminated through surgery and chemo. So was my cousin’s, 15+ years ago.

            I’m not sure why that is difficult for you to understand.

          • Peter Harris

            The ignorance and arrogance is off the scale here at this website.

            “…testicular cancer was completely eliminated…”

            Not only is that a lie, but a monstrous lie.

            https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/aua/38943

          • Who?

            The quote was:

            20+ years ago Lance Armstrong’s testicular cancer was completely eliminated through surgery and chemo.

            That is factually accurate.

            If you want to rant and rave about others being liars, you look better doing it if you aren’t misquoting them at the same time.

            I see you haven’t divulged your financial arrangements concerning your naturopathy.

          • Peter Harris

            And the nuff-nuffs continue with their moronic and infantile nonsense.
            Yes, but as you would know (or maybe you don’t know), one persons recovery or disease profile has no statistical relevance.
            My god, do I need to really point that out to you?!?!

          • Who?

            You manipulated the quote to make your point. All the while calling other people liars.

            And it’s ‘one person’s recovery’.

            Tell us how much your markup is when you sell what you prescribe. Tell us how much rebate you get per consult from private health insurance-noting doctors are not allowed to do the one, and get zero from the other.

          • Peter Harris

            Just for the stupid nuff nuff, I’ll quote the full quote again so there’s no confusion…

            “20+ years ago Lance Armstrong’s testicular cancer was completely eliminated through surgery and chemo.”

            My point, which is obvious to everyone, except the Fools like yourself, is that one man’s experience is not significantly important, and it doesn’t mean a cure for other men, who have died from testicular cancer.

            But seeing that you have proven that your stupidity knows no limits, you’ll come back with an even more stupid and gormless comment.

          • Who?

            You insinuated that Daleth claimed that all testicular cancer had been eliminated, not just one person’s. That was your lie, on this occasion.

            As you have just emphatically stated, twice, it is of course true that one person’s experience is not statistically important. Which is why anyone you claim to have cured with your platitudes and marked up tinctures is utterly irrelevant in a discussion about the value of naturopathy, as I am sure you would agree.

            Call the posters here names all you want, be as cranky and sad as you want, you are still wrong.

          • Peter Harris

            “But seeing that you have proven that your stupidity knows no limits, you’ll come back with an even more stupid and gormless comment.”

            Yep, and what do they do?
            Just prove your correct.

            I’m so glad it’s people like you that commentate on these Wacky websites, because it gives me a reason to point out how illegitimate and screwed up medical Sciences is, and their proponents like you… so please continue to embarrass yourself, and this wacky website.

          • Who?

            ‘…just prove you’re correct…’

          • Peter Harris

            Well thank you for agreeing with me.

          • Who?

            I corrected your atrocious grammar, for the second time.

            Of course I don’t agree with any of your nonsense, and why would you care if I did: aren’t I a nuff nuff (which I take it is pejorative)?

            By no means convinced your reading comprehension is up to scratch. Is that why you don’t understand what I’m asking about your sources of income?

          • Daleth

            Did you know that curing a disease and eradicating a disease are two different things?

            A person can be cured. Testicular cancer can be completely eliminated from that person’s body.

            A disease can be eradicated, as in, completely eliminated from the human population. For example, smallpox. No one gets that anymore.

          • Peter Harris

            It’s just hilarious… how often do I encounter this, where people try and win some cheap point over semantics.
            Let me be clear, cure or elimination, it doesn’t matter what words you use, as far as the average man and woman on the street are concerned, they want to see their disease gone if they go to a doctor and they should be able to expect such an outcome.
            After all, we are entering the third Decade of the 21st century, and all the common diseases are still well and truly entrenched in Western society.

            But isn’t it funny, these pro vaxxers always use the word cure, when they like to blow off about how good vaccines are at eliminating diseases.

          • MaineJen

            Honey, you don’t need a “cure” if you never get the disease in the first place. That’s what vaccines are for.

            Really. You’re just embarrassing yourself.

          • Peter Harris

            My god, are you for real?
            There’s no vaccines for modern diseases, or even older established diseases for that matter, such as diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and of course cancer.
            You are a simpleton.

          • MaineJen

            I’m sorry sweetheart, you’ve replied to your own comments so many times, I’m having a bit of trouble following here. 😉

          • Peter Harris

            If the subject matter is beyond your grasp, perhaps you should find a forum that talks about the Kardashians.

          • Peter Harris

            “You’re just embarrassing yourself”

            Oh, the irony!

          • Daleth

            Are you purposely ignoring what other people say, or do you genuinely not understand? Whatever the problem is, you’re not capable of communicating, so have fun with your life — I’m done trying to discuss things with you.

          • Peter Harris

            My god this website is amusing!
            The simpletons and ‘know nothings’ that populate this thread are just hilarious. They ask gormless and feckless questions, and when that is pointed out to them, they go off on some irrelevant and disingenuous tangent, in way of misdirection and goalpost shifting, to hide their stupidity and ignorance.

            Once again, this is further evidence, that this Wacky website is not taken seriously by mainstream medicine, which is evidenced by the simpletons that comment here.

          • Peter Harris

            And by the way, in case you haven’t noticed, testicular cancer, along with all the other cancers, are still killing people.
            Maybe if I had used the word prevention, you would still find issue with that.
            Needless to say, the pharmaceutical / medical industrial complex, does not like to use the word prevention, because they lose customers and profits if they actually prevent / eliminate disease.
            There’s far more money to be made, and big profits to enjoy, when you’re treating your patients with drugs that just mask the symptoms.

          • Daleth

            Modern medicine, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies etc. make money by curing diseases, because people buy their products and procedures in order to be cured.

            If they came up with a pill or procedure that prevented disease, they would also make money, because people would buy their products and procedures in order to avoid the disease. Oh wait! That already happens! People buy statins to prevent cholesterol-induced heart attacks. People at extreme genetic risk of breast and ovarian cancer get preventative mastectomies and oophorectomies (Angelina Jolie being the most famous example). Do you want me to go on?

          • Peter Harris

            “A disease can be eradicated, as in, completely eliminated from the human population. For example, smallpox.”

            There’s only one example you’ve given, but the human race is still Afflicted with hundreds of different diseases, that are no where close to being eradicated / cured / illuminated… whatever.

          • Daleth

            Yep, totally true. But also irrelevant, since you had asked, as if it were a rhetorical question to which the answer was no, whether “Big Pharma”/”scientific medicine” had ever cured a disease. And of course, the answer is yes. It has cured many diseases and also eradicated a few.

            Can you remind me what diseases have been cured or eradicated by chiropractic, homeopathy or other alternatives?

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Medicine doesn’t cure anything except … tuberculosis, pneumonia, bacterial meningitis, gonorrhea, any bacterial illness you care to name. American medicine routinely cures previously deadly conditions like appendicitis, ectopic pregnancies and obstetric hemorrhage. Better yet, it can completely prevent many viral and bacterial scourges through vaccination. It’s not a coincidence that American lifespan has increased from 48 years to 77.7 years in slightly more than a century. Much of what routinely killed Americans is now routinely cured.

            In fact, cure is so routine that these illnesses rarely enter American consciousness. No one worries about dying from tertiary syphilis, diphtheria or rheumatic heart disease. Those diseases are routinely prevented or cured in their early stages.

            And “disease management” is hardly a deficiency, either. Some diseases cannot yet be cured. Until the day that a cure is discovered, we manage those diseases. Juvenile (type I) diabetes was uniformly fatal until the discovery of insulin. Insulin doesn’t cure diabetics; it merely allows them to live an addition 50 years or more. Instead of dying in childhood, type I diabetics routinely live to have and enjoy grandchildren.

            Now it’s your turn. Name one disease that has been cured through quackery.

          • Peter Harris

            Just the disingenuous and specious nonsensical reply I would expect from a flunky of the pharmaceutical / medical industrial complex.

            For example, your claim that people live longer today because of medical science.
            It’s well acknowledged, amongst objective observers, (which clearly, you are not one of them) that if you take out infant mortality rates, around the time of the Victorian era, then people lived virtually the same length of time as they do today.

            And as for the rest of your nonsensical claptrap, it’s just typical of you so called “medical professionals,” to ignore the elephant in the room, and that is, that as we approach the third Decade of the 21st century there is still no cure in sight for common debilitating diseases, no matter how much Flim Flam and motherhood statements you use, the fact remains, there are no cures.

          • DaisyGrrl

            Okay, I’ll bite. Comparing the top 10 causes of death from 100 years ago with today’s top 10 causes of death and it’s pretty clear that there have been some massive changes in how we die in the developed world. We’re far less likely to die from infectious diseases and far more likely to die from conditions linked with old age, like cancer and heart disease. It’s disingenuous to try and pretend adulthood in Victorian times was similar to how it is today.

            But please, tell me how you can restore my health to what it would have been in Victorian times!

          • Peter Harris

            Dare I say, your bark is worse than your bike.
            You’ve proved nothing, except how you wingnuts love to lie and twist a story and statistics.

          • Peter Harris

            “far more likely to die from conditions linked with old age, like cancer and heart disease.”

            Not true.

            https://www.google.com.au/amp/scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/02/04/why-are-cancer-rates-increasing/amp/

          • DaisyGrrl

            True.

            According to the wingnuts at the New England Journal of Medicine, the top 3 causes of death in the US in 1900 were pneumonia or influenza, tuberculosis, and gastrointestinal infections. In 2010, the top 3 causes of death were heart disease, cancer, and non-infectious airways diseases. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1113569

            Not sure if you think that they were lying about TB in 1900 or about cancer now, but the evidence doesn’t support your assertions.

          • Peter Harris

            So typical of the cowards and intellectual wannabes on these threads, is their prime tactic to shift the goalposts every time they are proven wrong.

            And one other thing I find extraordinary, from personal experience living in the states, is how parochial and insular Americans are.
            It may come as a surprise to you, but there are other people living in this world with other diseases profiles.

          • DaisyGrrl

            I am well aware that there are other people in the world with other disease profiles. That’s why my original comment referred to death in developed countries.

            It may come as a surprise to you, but you’re not the only non-American commenting here. If you’re trying to insult my nationality, better luck next time.

          • Peter Harris

            Yep, you just confirm my suspicions, as to the motives why you use Flim Flam and obfuscation as a smoke screen to hide your own ignorance.

          • Peter Harris

            “According to the wingnuts at the New England Journal of Medicine…”
            Probably the most accurate and honest thing you’ve said.

          • MaineJen

            PSSHT. They only do real science. Amirite?

          • Who?

            What’s a few dead babies, hey Peter?

            What do you charge for a consultation? Do you sell what you prescribe? If yes, what’s your markup? How much do you get by way of private health insurance rebates?

            Given your objection to people making a living at their jobs, I assume the answer is nothing, no, not applicable and zero.

          • Peter Harris

            I object people making money from, maiming, butchering and profiting from people’s pain.

          • swbarnes2

            Just tell us, what naturopathic treatment would have cured Ezekiel Stephan? I’m sure many doctors here can enumerate the mainstream medicine which would have saved him.

            Just name the medicine, and show us the clinical evidence behind it.

          • MaineJen

            Well sure, if you don’t count all the people who DIED, life expectancy was the same!

            That’s what life expectancy is, you troglodyte.

          • Peter Harris

            Hahaha, the moronic nonsense and knuckle-draggers that comment here just get more absurd every minute.

            Did you even understand what I said?
            And more importantly, do you even understand your own stupid comment?
            Nevermind, rhetorical question.

          • Amy Tuteur, MD

            Aren’t you just a chef at a community care organization? What do you know about any of this?

          • Peter Harris

            Just the pathetic non sequitur I would expect from you.
            No comment, regarding your own epic failures on medicine, specifically on a cure of Tuberculosis??

          • Peter Harris

            Oh and by the way, I wasn’t deliberately using a pun, when I regarded your comments as ‘motherhood’ statements, because it has been shown, that you are totally hostile, and anathema to true motherhood.

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            hypochondria? 😉

          • Peter Harris

            “Medicine doesn’t cure anything except … tuberculosis…”

            Ok, lets examine each one of your barefaced lies…

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/03/24/tb-cases-increase-in-u-s-for-first-time-in-23-years/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ef00e7f4ac2c

          • kilda

            ooh, I’ll play. Hepatitis C. Terrible disease which can cause cancer and liver failure, now curable with medication. Approved in 2014, that recent enough for you?

          • swbarnes2

            Hodgkins lymphoma has a very high cure rate.

          • Peter Harris

            Of course, another specious and disingenuous lie from the wingnuts that populate this website… “Hepatitis C (hep C) can be cured for most people.”

            https://www.hepatitisaustralia.com/cure-hep-c/

          • Peter Harris

            “Naturopathy – enormous expenditure”

            Really?
            You’re enormously ignorant, because in actual fact, it’s far cheaper than conventional made for profit medicine.

          • Sue

            Yes, really – enormous expenditure for miniscule benefit:

            smh:
            “Last year, Australians spent an estimated $3.9 billion on alternative health therapies including therapies such as chiropractic and naturopathy, traditional Chinese medicine as well as homoeopathic and aromatherapy products. According to an IBISWorld industry report that revenue will potentially be affected by growing scrutiny of whether these therapies actually help. It is startling to consider this industry is thriving despite a lack of scientific evidence to suggest it works.”

            Naturopathy in The Review of the Australian Government Rebate on Private Health Insurance for Natural Therapies:
            No robust evidence for efficacy.

            Live blood analysis – scam test : $80
            http://betterhealthandbody.com.au/pricing/

            Contrary to your assertion, I am very well informed.

          • Peter Harris

            This is our view of your obscenely expensive healthcare.
            Natural therapies are still way cheaper than the commercial made profit model.

            http://www.nswnma.asn.au/american-health-exorbitant-inefficient-and-out-of-the-reach-of-many/

          • Sue

            Conventional healthcare – cost associated with benefit.
            Naturopathy – all cost, no benefit.

            See how it works?

          • Peter Harris

            “…cost associated with benefit…”

            Really? You’ll have to point it out, because it’s nowhere to be seen.

          • Sue

            It must be a quiet day in Big Vita land.

          • Peter Harris

            Yep, I have a little time off work.
            And your point is?
            And by the way, you haven’t answered the questions I put to you.

          • MaineJen

            Thalidomide and Vioxx. Yawn. You’ll notice neither are available any longer. If one of your “cures” was found to be ineffective or, worse, harmful, would you pull it off the shelf?

          • Peter Harris

            Yawn huh?
            You’re just nothing but a confirmed misanthrope.
            Of course, people like you, love to put the profits of the pharmaceutical / medical industrial complex, before the interests of people, in overcoming disease and saving their lives.

            Conspiracies to defraud, lie, cheat and steel by the nefarious pharmaceutical / medical industrial complex has been a feature of their business model, in the past, now, and no doubt, into the future.

          • MaineJen

            You didn’t answer my question.

          • Daleth

            If one of your “cures” was found to be ineffective or, worse, harmful, would you pull it off the shelf?

            Nope. Hyland’s Teething Tablets are still available even though hundreds of kids have been injured or killed by them: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hundreds-of-babies-harmed-by-homeopathic-remedies-families-say/

            And of course, using homeopathic remedies instead of antibiotics to treat serious infections has also killed children and adults (see link for a recent example), but some naturopaths still push that approach: https://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2013/11/23/use-of-homeopathy-kills-child/

          • swbarnes2

            Note in the case of thalidomide, the American FDA system worked as it should have, because the woman in charge of the FDA would not let it pass, because there wasn’t enough safety information.

          • Peter Harris

            Not true, it was approved by the FDA back in 1998.
            And what about Vioxx?

          • swbarnes2

            Thalidomimde was approved for non-pregnant people. You must be out of your mind stupid to not realize that. Or bone deep thoroughly incurably dishonest to not mention it.

          • Peter Harris

            It’s funny, but the cabal of nonsense makers never fail to make themselves look stupid. Here’s a list of side effects from Thalidomide, regardless of what it is prescribed for…

            Chest pain, sudden shortness of breath, coughing up blood; pain or swelling in your arm, thigh, or calf;
            fever, chills, body aches, flu symptoms, easy bruising or bleeding; slow heartbeats, shallow breathing, feeling like you might pass out; a red, blistering, peeling skin rash; a red, raised skin rash (especially if you also have fever, fast heart rate, and dizziness or fainting);
            numbness, burning, pain, or tingly feeling; or
            seizure (convulsions).
            Less serious side effects may include:

            feeling drowsy or sleepy; anxiety, confusion, tremors or shaking; bone pain, muscle weakness;
            sleep problems (insomnia); or
            nausea, constipation, loss of appetite.

          • Peter Harris

            And maybe you can’t read good, a bit like Eric Zoolander, but I mentioned Vioxx also.

        • Who?

          Some health funds here now offer Extras that don’t include naturopathy etc, so I expect uptake will start to fall off.

          It’s to be hoped the government will soon mandate a complete stop to private health coverage of it. See how many alternative practitioners survive when people have to reach all the way into their own pockets to pay for it. I suppose the fraudsters will just jack up the price of the products they prescribe (ahem) and sell to make up for the difference from the rich gullible.

          Because when doctors make a living it’s an outrage; when they do it’s just incidental to their mission. Amiright?

          • Empress of the Iguana People

            Ugh. This reminds me, I just saw a reiki poster on the receptionist’s window at DH’s ophthamologist’s office. Within a hospital. Seriously disappointed in them. Faith healing. just ugh

          • MaineJen

            They used to do Reiki ‘certification’ at our hospital too. “I’m going to teach you to put your hands NEAR someone for half an hour. That’ll be $100.”

          • Who?

            If I had no ethics I’d be a wealthier woman today.

        • Peter Harris

          Do you have the courage to actually post your nonsense and bias claptrap under your own name?
          I guess not, rhetorical question.

          • Christopher Hickie

            Um, this *is* my real name. You already know that, too.

          • Peter Harris

            Sure, but like you and your wacky friends, such as Mike Stevens, you have multiple disqus accounts, and other cowardly tricks to post your nonsense.

          • Christopher Hickie

            No. I do not have multiple disqus accounts. Care to show how you came to this false assertion?

          • Who?

            Let me answer for PH, he’s probably defrosting something for the residents’ dinner: yo’ure guille nos know bounds; sock puppets; limbic blurghhh; basements are knot reel….

      • Who?

        Gee last time you were here you were a sexual predator living in Asia.

        Did you run out of money?

        • Peter Harris

          Me, sexual predator?
          You are scraping the bottom of the barrel, it says more about you than it does to me.
          And of course, the cowards here can’t backup their insults with facts.

  • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    Somewhat on topic: Here is why I think up to date vaccinations should be mandatory for school attendance unless you have a medical waiver for an actual medical reason: http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2018/05/lane_county_sees_12_cases_of_w.html

  • Alison Hamar

    Amy,
    I am disgusted with how you handled this article. Instead of offering some light and perspective, albeit different and more mainstream than Shayla’s, you belittled and name-called. You are not serving a purpose with this post, you are only appealing to the people who already agree with you. You are not bridging the gap in idiogy or offering a perspective that makes people think. You are picking an article and berating a mom, period. I thought we were all in this together? I would urge you to really think about how you speak about other people, especially on the internet. If you were truly concerned you would have wrote an article appealing to others to vaccinate NOT what you did above. I am very disappointed in the voice you choose to project in this piece. I would urge you to read the comments, because of the way they you wrote almost every person who responds lacks compassion…and rather continues on the destructive rant that you started. I really hope that in the future you will consider what you are trying to accomplish and appeal to the audience you feel should be aware of the problem. Instead of starting a hate article of a woman you don’t know.
    Aloha,
    Ali

    • Amy Tuteur, MD

      Apparently you are a scientifically illiterate narcissist, too. Hopefully your children won’t suffer because of your arrogant ignorance.

      Aloha.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55113923e452f98688258bfea9e4d6528d13ae75e0f58c3210bbf00bb04af7b2.jpg

      • Alison Hamar

        “But if I’ve learned anything from practicing medicine and from more than 25 years as a mother, it is this: what works for me and my family is not necessarily what is best for anyone else. The experience of practicing medicine allowed me to meet people from every walk of life, every ethnic group, and every culture. I learned that there are a lot of ways to successfully raise children. That conviction has only been strengthened by watching the children of my friends, and the friends of my children grow up. Many were raised very differently, and they turned out to be happy, confident, accomplished young adults.

        My observations led to me to a fundamental conclusion: the most important thing for children is the sense that their parents love them.”

        I really don’t feel like you are being consistent. You are saying what works for you is not what’s best for others…as long as I agree with it? I’m simply trying to point out that if are trying to accomplish something, bullying isn’t the best tactic.

        • Amazed

          As long as the creatures giving birth don’t torture their children and brag about it. Really, it’s quite clear.

        • Amy Tuteur, MD

          A mother who praises herself for subjecting her child to the torture of whooping cough is a narcissist who puts bolstering her ego over love for her child. It’s the exact opposite of a mother who truly loves her child.

          • Peter Harris

            Not only are you a Quack, when it comes to obstetrics, but you are clueless about basic psychology as well.

        • Heidi

          Letting your child suffer through whooping cough is not love! Not only did she refuse vaccination, which could have prevented or lessened the severity, she didn’t even seek medical treatment that would have shortened the suffering. She put her child’s life at risk so she could get some imaginary credit.

        • Daleth

          Physically and emotionally torturing a child is not an act of love. Her actions show that she loves her belief system (about vaccinations, natural health, etc.) more than she loves her child.

          And I’m not saying she doesn’t love her kid at all. I’m saying she would not have allowed such suffering if she loved her child more than she loved her belief system. A truly loving parent will take action to prevent unnecessary suffering even if it means she has to reevaluate her own beliefs. She didn’t do that.

        • LaMont

          “Not necessarily” does not mean that there aren’t ANY universal truths. And knowing that your parent let you suffer needlessly is *not* giving a the child a “sense that their parents love them.”

        • swbarnes2

          Sure, there are many ways…and they all involve doing what works to protect your child from dangerous illness. Vaccines protect children from dangerous illnesses, and there really is nothing that works as well.

        • Tiffany Aching

          I’ve got news for you: letting your child catch a preventable disease and then writing about all the cuddles you had and what a good, self sacrificing mother you are is more akin to Munchausen’s by proxy than maternal love. Some women have children because it makes them feel important and it fuels their narcissism. Not all mothers are nice. A good mother would at least have questionned here decision not to vaccinate and would have talked much more about her child’s health than hers (btw, toothache because of nutrition depletion? I thought that breastfeeding took like 200-300 calories a day. That’s what I burn walking to the office).

      • Lindsay Holcroft

        You’re an angry bitch, Amy. Let’s not pretend to have all of the answers. We do our best. Shayla clearly loves her child which is what you state to be most important. You’re not educating anybody with your intolerance. Your narcissism is apparent— you’re not here to help people, you’re only interested in bullying and stating your OPINION as fact.

        • Amazed

          Shayla also clearly torments her child but bitches like you and the others inhabiting the hole you crawled out of cannot understand this.

          Tell me, who is your mistress? Who send you and the Ego Queen above here around the same time?

        • Amy Tuteur, MD

          Angry? How else should I feel about child abuse dressed up as good for a child?

        • Daleth

          Shayla clearly loves her child which is what you state to be most important

          Physically and emotionally torturing your child “because you love them” is at least as screwed up and wrong as physically torturing them because you don’t love them. At least in the latter case, you’re not gaslighting the kid.

        • swbarnes2

          No, this woman loves her vanity more. She chose it over her child’s welfare.

        • Who?

          Heaven forbid a lady should be angry! Though I think if you’re claiming the moral high ground describing her as a bitch might undermine you a bit.

          If your ‘best’ is allowing your child to suffer for months, untreated, with an avoidable illness, then brag about your suffering, you need to take a good, long, hard, look at yourself.

        • rosewater1

          Misplaced anger much? Where is your moral outrage for a child who suffered NEEDLESSLY?

          Shayla loves her child? Okay, I’ll give you that. I’ll grant you that she does. But she could have loved her child to death. Whooping cough can be fatal.

          And what do you do? You tone police the comments of those who disagree with this poor excuse for a mother.

          If needless illness of an innocent child isn’t cause for anger…what is?

      • MaineJen

        Wow, so she caught the part at the end when Poor Mom laments that her own health has suffered, but ignored the large bit in the middle where the child is ill for weeks. Lovely!

        • Mishimoo

          Quite frankly, the child’s pain and illness just don’t matter to people like this. It’s not as percieved as being as bad as what they’re experiencing in caring for their sick child. They lack empathy and compassion, and I feel very sorry for their children.

    • swbarnes2

      What Dr. Tuteur is trying to accomplish is not to get this mother to reconsider her actions and choices. It’s to get people who aren’t that crazy to critically examine the story, and realize there is nothing to praise in a woman who played games with her child’s health.

      • Alison Hamar

        It’s not the fact that they disagree that bothers me, it’s the way she assumes that what is right for her is right for everyone. I think she would be surprised by my background and choices because they probably align with hers. But treating people like they are second hand citizens isn’t helping the situation. She is preaching to the choir instead of going out and really trying to make a difference and educating the population on her perception of what is right. All things can be successfully completed respectfully. She is not doing that.

        • Amazed

          Haha. She didn’t succeed to turn YOU into a reasonable adult, so you deduce she doesn’t succeed with a considerable number of other people. Sweet. Some centre of the world, aren’t you?

          I can see why you rush in to defend this mother. Only someone as nuts as her could see this creature as giving.

          Oh, and you’re SO respectful saying how disgusted you are. Rest assured, you can’t be more disgusted than I am with your disgust. In fact, if you were here, I’d likely barf in your smug face.

          Aloha, Ego Queen.

        • swbarnes2

          Sorry, but it is right for everyone to protect their children from terrible, potentially lethal diseases.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      We have a lot of compassion, for a child whose mother let them suffer needlessly for many weeks, completely un-necessarily. (And for the people this mother may have exposed to whooping cough)

      Then this mother chose to post on the internet about how awesome it was that she could breastfeed her kid while they suffered horribly with whooping cough. Dr Tuteur is , I believe trying to persuade parents who might be on the fence about whether vaccines are necessary.

    • MaineJen

      It turns out we’re NOT all in this together! I have no wish to be “in this” with someone who lets their children suffer needlessly from a disease that regularly killed children a century ago. Someone who is more afraid of going to the hospital for IV fluids than she is of her infant dying. I will be “in this” with her when she gets a clue and gets her kids up to date on their vaccines. Until then, she’s on her own.

    • Daleth

      Why is it wrong to publicly shame people who do shameful things? Especially when those people go online themselves to brag about the shameful thing they did?

    • Who?

      Dr T attacks the self-praise in the article. If the article had been ‘this is what whooping cough is like’ and left out the ‘aren’t I an awesome mama’ stuff, it would have been a lot more valuable and interesting. As it is it’s just another humblebrag about being an ‘awesome mama’ while experiencing totally self-inflicted discomfort.

      There are a million reasonable, thoughtful posts on the internet about why whooping cough is a potentially deadly and often really horrible illness, and yet many people still choose to not vaccinate against it.

      I have all the compassion in the world for the child here. The mother made her choices, if she is a bit sleepy (thereby probably further impeding her parenting) then she can take that as a natural and inevitable consequence of her choices.

  • Christopher Hickie

    And Bob Sears, the anti-vax quack pediatrician who started the whole “alternate vaccine schedule” poo-pooed his own wife getting pertussis in his “Vaccine Book”.

    • Peter Harris

      As a so-called “pediatrician” yourself, who have you cured?

  • Christopher Hickie

    I’ve had non-vaxxing families still refuse all vaccines even after the infant had been in the hospital–yea, the PICU–for whooping cough. It’s amazing the stupid that is out there, but perhaps the cake-taker is anti-vax, anti-science, anti-anything-of-intelligence “paleo” cardiologist Jack Wolfson (who stated on TV in 2015 during a measles outbreak that kids need to contract measles for better health). Wolfson has bragged multiple times about how he let his two unvaccinated sons (one of whom was an infant at the time) suffer through whooping cough for months *untreated* as though it is some badge of honor. He even brags how he didn’t report it to the public health department. And, of course Wolfson is a home birth/breast-is-best freak and his chiroquacktor wife is even more rabidly insane.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      Jeez, my son currently has a (nasty) cold, and it makes me feel bad enough as it is, as I wish there were more I do to help him feel better.

      I remember when he had Hand, Foot and Mouth. That was 3 days of absolute misery, not just for him but also for us.

      I’d love to have my kids not get sick, and if they do get sick, I want them to feel better as soon as possible. Then again, I actually am a sympathetic person and care about the well-being of others, and am not a selfish asshole who treats others like shit.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      Ah yes, I remember him – This moron https://respectfulinsolence.com/2015/01/30/antivaccine-cardiologist-jack-wolfson-and-the-resurrection-of-false-balance-about-vaccines/

      Wolfson does not believe in vaccination. “We do not need to inject chemicals into ourselves and into our children in order to boost our immune system,” he said.

      Unrelated fun fact, my state is now up to 3 confirmed measles cases. 2 are infants in the same home, who were apparently traveling with their parents out of the U.S. The latest one is just “someone” who had contact with people in the local elementary school/was at the local elementary school. Having 2 babies with measles at the same time must be hell.

    • Peter Harris

      Speaking of insane, can you enlighten everyone, as to why Wolfson allowed his kids to contract’ these common diseases?

      I’d love to hear it, because one can only assume, being a moronic allopath, you are clueless about how the immune system works.

      • Who?

        Thanks for asking, Reasonable Hank tells the story pretty well I think:

        https://reasonablehank.com/2015/02/03/the-drs-wolfson-incomprehensibly-cruel/

      • Christopher Hickie

        Peter, laddy–be a good boy and go play in the highway.

        • Who?

          But think of the feelings of the drivers…

        • Peter Harris

          So you wish me dead?
          What a scumbag you are, but it’s no surprise, for a quack like you, who makes money from death and destruction.

          • Christopher Hickie

            So sad, no sense of humor or metaphor. You need to get out of your basement and get some Vitamin D.

          • Peter Harris

            Still no reply from you, you gutless coward, regarding my accusations about the nefarious business practices of the pharmaceutical / medical industrial complex.

            And by the way, how many times do I have to tell you ignorant Americans, there are no basements in Australia.
            And you being a “doctor,” would have no idea about the useful benefits of vitamin D.

          • Who?

            There are loads of basements in Australia. You need to mix with a different crowd.

          • Oh, no. NO. Not the basement argument again! Look, this Harris fellow has nothing to offer by way of information or illumination. He is a mere troll, and his posts consist of sad little insults. We oughtn’t engage.

          • Peter Harris

            Yes, that was my reaction.
            Apparently you Americans know more about the non-existent basements in Australia than I do.

          • Namaste

            Oh good God,enough with the Great Australian Basement Debate! WHO CARES if there are basements in Australia, or anywhere else for that matter? (Incidently, I am leaving for Australia the day after tomorrow. Any tips on things not to miss in Cairns, Ayers Rock, and Sydney?)

          • Peter Harris

            For a start, it’s called Uluru, not Ayers Rock.
            The weather is perfect this time a year in central Australia.

          • Namaste

            Sorry, my bad, Uluru

          • Who?

            Just ignore Peter. I’m sorry his attempt at cultural awareness ended up being rudeness to a guest. Some people have no couth at all, Peter is one of them. But then we know how he behaves as a tourist, so to be fair he is just setting the bar to his own low standard.

            Either name is perfectly fine, though Uluru is more current, despite in fact being the older name. Everyone will know what you mean and no one will judge you.

          • Sue

            This person posting as an Australian naturopath is a poor example of an Australian, and certainly no model for the “holistic” practice of naturopathy.

            What makes these people so abusive? Is it because they can’t participate in rational debate? Is it because they feel guilty about being scammers and selling their souls to Big Vita? Maybe all of the above.

          • Peter Harris

            It’s funny, I’m only a poor example, abusive and a scammer when I don’t agree with the mainstream consensus of the pain for profit medical industry.

            I’m sure if you’re so concerned with abusive language, you’d have a lot to say to dr Sickie and Gorski.

          • Sue

            No – you’re a “poor example, abusive and a scammer” because you have only posted uninformed, aggressive posts and no evidence, and you claim to sell a “therapy” that holds no evidence for benefit, and in which the providers directly sell the “remedies” they recommend.

            Big Vita shill.

          • Peter Harris

            Hey Sue, you are just reinforcing my previous point.
            If your feelings are so hurt, then why aren’t you complaining about the abusive and disgusting behaviour by others around here?
            I’ve been called a pedophile, are you going to defend me against that comment?
            Nevermind, of course not, you’re a hack.

          • Who?

            Sue’s not suffering from hurt feelings, except on behalf of the folks you’re ripping off.

            And it’s you who cattied on about your sexual escapades with young ones, seemed quite proud in fact. If you can’t take the heat…

          • Peter Harris

            My word, it is amusing to read these comments, from people who lack guille, intelligence and a functional prefrontal cortex.
            Do you care to get back to the topic at hand?
            Which is the disgusting made for profit medical industry?

          • Who?

            What do you charge for a consultation? Do you sell what you prescribe? If yes, what is your markup? How much do you get from private health insurance rebates?

            Simple questions for someone who complains about others making a living.

          • Sue

            Does he actually do consultations? Business seems not to be very busy at the moment.

          • Who?

            I hope not.

            Hopefully it is as much of a fantasy as his sexual conquests in Asia/South Pacific and his obsession with an absence of regularly occurring Australian architectural features.

          • Sue

            (Puts hand up) I declare that I lack “guille”. (Does he mean Guille’, in Burkina Faso?)

            This guy thinks that, because he uses words like “limbic system” and “pre-frontal cortex”, he must be some sort of medical genius. No evidence of that, though.

            It’s always the same with these fly-ins – repeated aggressive comments and insults, never any substantive argument or evidence.

          • Sue

            All these posts, and not a single bit of evidence that his person has done anything to improve anyone’s health.

            Just another fly-by.

          • Who?

            I’d give the naturopaths a swerve.

            Have a wonderful visit!

          • Roadstergal

            Man, I haven’t been to Sydney since 2008. Maybe my friend had her basement filled in since then?

            We went there primarily for the diving, and were up in Townsville for that, but we stopped by Sydney to hang out with my friend and watch the NYE fireworks. The trees in the garden adjacent to the opera house was so heavy with bats, it looked like black foliage – really cool!

          • Mishimoo

            We had thousands of bats flying over the other night, it was beautiful!

          • Who?

            I wonder what the naturopathic remedy for lyssavirus is?

            Anyone?

            I know I shouldn’t mock the afflicted, and from tomorrow I will try to be better.

          • Mishimoo

            Oh!! I know – you take the saliva of a large dog, much like my husband’s dog, who found a bat trapped in the fence and did his level best to remove it’s head. Then you dilute the saliva a bunch of times and sell it as the homoeopathic lyssavirus cure!

          • Who?

            She must have since Peter is never wrong. I’m wondering about the local one here, in a private house, that has a shooting gallery in it. Guess it’s filled in too.

            Interesting Peter Harris is not listed anywhere in Australia as a naturopath, nor does that name come up as a naturopath during a google search. So he’s either lying about his name while complaining others won’t reveal their’s, or he is a naturopath keeping his light under a bushel (by far the best place for it, of course) or he’s not a naturopath at all.

            Dr T seems to think he’s some kind of domestic staff at an aged care facility, perhaps she’s on to something.

            Cue rage filled rant about what an idiot I am-which makes you wonder why he cares what I think, doesn’t it?

          • Box of Salt

            Who? Check out Britt Hermes’s blog Naturopathic Diaries.

            “Peter Harris” wastes a lot of time posting insults at other commenters there.

          • Mike Stevens

            Uluru, please.
            Be sure to avoid trolls.

            If you’ve time in Cairns, take the mountain skytrain to Kuranda and the cable car back, with a stop off in the rainforest.
            Unmissable.

          • Peter Harris

            Says the Internet “doctor,” who is multiple disqus accounts, and cannot explain even the very basics of medicine/biology.
            Example…where the vaccine goes into the body, once it’s been directly injected by the syringe.

            As a popular saying goes, you cannot make this stuff up.

          • Mishimoo

            The Australian Museum is well worth a visit – they have an opalised umoonasaurus called Eric, and so many other interesting things. I think the Long Hall has finished renovations, so all the skeletons should be back. Taronga Zoo is also amazing, the ferries are fun, and the Powerhouse Museum is awesome. I also really loved the Art Gallery of NSW and the parklands around it. Hope you have a great time!

          • Peter Harris

            “He is a mere troll.”

            I always like to read that, it shows that the knuckle draggers are bereft of intellectually discourse, so instead they use monosyllabic statements to hide that fact.

          • MaineJen

            OMG, this is the basement guy? HA

          • Mike Stevens

            Ironic, seeing how he is trolling the net from his mother’s basement, isn’t it?

          • Peter Harris

            Really??
            How many times have you Americans told me that?
            I think I know my own country.
            If you think I’m wrong, point it out.

  • The Vitaphone Queen

    Rye?!

  • hmmm

    Beyond the immoral decision to not vaccinate, There was the monstrous decision to not treat. Pick a Macrolide. Pretty much any fucking Macrolide! This kid hacked and suffered for his mother’s ego, and nothing else. The recordings I have seen of this disease are haunting. This creature watched that live, and just let her kid wonder if he was gonna die. I hope I never meet this woman. I would spit in her face, and that would do her no good and damage my soul.

  • borkborkbork

    The thing that really gets me about Shayla Cherry’s blog post is just how unnecessary the whole thing is.

    She really plays up her sacrifice – the late nights, the stress on her body, difficulties getting her child to take his vitamins and the difficulties of carrying around a thirty lb toddler…like it proves how caring of a mother she is, and how deeply committed to attachment parenting.

    But here’s the thing…you don’t have to let your kid contract whooping cough and then suffer from it for 3+ months to have these experiences.

    We’ve all been up with our kids at 2am more nights than we can count. We all throw our backs out carrying them. It’s a parenting thing – not an attachment parenting thing.

    And for those of us that lactate – yeah, our teeth hurt. We’ve all got vitamin deficiencies. Get a group of grannies together in a room sometime and ask them how many pregnancies/breastfed babies it took before their teeth and hair starting falling out and they started getting stress fractures in their feet and ankles. Sometimes it is the third kid, or the fifth, or the eighth, but you know what? They’ll flash their dentured smile at you, laugh about it, and say they took it in stride on their aching feet.

    Women have been doing this for thousands of years. Motherhood wrecks us all, in one way or another.

    You are not special, Shayla.

    • Who?

      This. Well said.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      She’s a narcissist, it’s pretty obvious she sees everything about her child in terms of herself.

      It would be interesting to see how her kid reacts to this sort of parenting when he gets older. I don’t know about anyone else but my kids personality seemed pretty obvious even when she was just a few months old ( what we laughingly now call stubborn as a mule – it’s funny when they are 23 years old)

      I honestly wonder what these parents who invest EVERYTHING in intensive parenting are going to do when their kids are able (I hope!) to assert their independence and want to explore on their own. You have to give them the tools to deal with the world. We aren’t going to be around to protect them forever.

      I wonder how she would have reacted to her almost 16yo kid asking as mine did, to go to Germany to stay with a friend’s family for the summer. The girls took the trains all over Germany. Mostly by themselves. They had a blast.

      • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild

        $5 says she has another baby when this one is old enough to assert himself. People like this only love babies because they can force their selfish demands onto their kid like its a plastic doll. As soon as the kid is old enough to walk and talk they move onto a replacement dolly.

        • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

          I wonder if she will home school any children she has just to have complete control over any and all information they are exposed to. Can’t let your kids have any ideas that don’t come from you!!! My kid had friends with radically different ideas (I’m a liberal, hippie atheist and my daughter’s best friend for a while in middle school/high school was an evangelical Christian. She learned a lot and got exposed to other ways of seeing the world, while they are still friends they kind of drifted apart when they went to colleges in different states. People who want to “curate” every detail of their kids lives, forever, make me sad…

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            Yeppers.
            One of my closest mom friends and I disagree about an awful lot: she’s Jewish, and very liberal politically, and I’m Catholic, and a weird mix of libertarian/liberal/conservative. Yet when it comes down to it, we have the same goal as moms: raising decent, kind human beings. We’ve both learned a lot about different worldviews through talking to each other, and like the fact that as our kids get older, we can help keep an eye on all of them and, yes, hopefully mold them into good people.
            This is also a reason that I’m very wary of a lot of homeschool groups, despite our plans to homeschool. I despise echo chambers, and I’m firmly of the opinion that if your beliefs and ideas don’t stand up to polite, rational criticism and disagreement, you need to reevaluate ’em. I’ve never seen a homeschool group (and I was homeschooled for much of my education) that isn’t a self-reinforcing echo chamber. Ugh.

      • As soon as he’s like… 5 and starts expressing meaningful preferences, he’ll be labeled a behavior problem, and she’ll become a mommy blogger about ODD, which he won’t have but which she will say he does because he is a human with his own thoughts and not a pet dog she can project the other half of a conversation on.

  • yentavegan

    The dogma believed by the anti-vaccine crowd is that getting these preventable childhood illnesses strengthens the immune system. So if your child contracts pertussis it is a cause for celebration, as now he will benefit from a super powerful all natural immune system. This line of thinking is akin to pushing a toddler out a window in hopes of breaking a few bones in order to gift him with stronger more resilient limbs for the future.

  • Pregnant Guest

    Can I ask an OT question? I’m likely looking at induction in the next day or two, and the hospital starts most inductions with misoprostol. 2 years ago, when discussing induction with my provider, she was adamant that we would insist on Cervadil over miso (over the hospital’s objections, I think?) because she was more comfortable with its safety profile (I don’t remember details beyond that). This time with a different provider, there’s been no mention of that. Has there been new safety evidence or was my other provider mistaken? Trying to decide if this is something I need to look further into or just trust the hospital…

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      Maybe a preference by one provider versus another? Just guessing, since I’m no medical person. *hugs* and I hope your labor is about as boring as possible and that you and munchkin come through with flying colors.

    • MI Dawn

      Looking at medical research, it’s mostly provider preference. misoprostol has shorter labors generally but a slightly higher incidence of postpartum complications. Cervadil has longer labors but slightly lower complications. So it’s a wash. If you are really concerned, talk to your provider and ask them their thought process. They should give you their reasons without a fuss. If they don’t, then it’s time to make a fuss yourself!

      • Pregnant Guest

        Interesting, so Cervadil might be a little safer, but w/the risk of longer labor? I did ask, briefly, and all I was told was that the hospital I’m delivering at only stocks misoprostol. I will ask my provider about specific risks/benefits. Thanks!

  • borkborkbork

    The original post is a horrifying read. I’m glad Dr. Tuteur is shining a light on this.

    One reason that I am so adamantly pro-vaccine and evidence-based medicine is that I was raised in a religious sect that rejected medical intervention. I was exclusively breastfed, ate a diet of unprocessed foods, and never saw a doctor.

    Children are resilient, but not invincible. Sure, I didn’t die from any of the infections I had as a kid, but I came close. They left me with a lifetime of disability and pain. I can’t swallow food, or drink, or take a deep breath without pain, due to the scarring in my throat and lungs. Whenever I hear an anti-vax mom say “I’ve never met/heard of someone who had suffered true harm from a childhood disease…” I have to give them a long hard stare of incredulity.

    These children…they aren’t experiments in natural living. They aren’t extensions of their parents’ martyrdom or avenues to accolades on the internet. They are people, people who suffer. They may not remember whether or not they were breastfed, but they sure as hell will remember the torture of sleepless night after sleepless night struggling to breathe. They will remember missing out on months or years of their childhood due to illness. They will remember falling behind in school, falling behind other children in physical development and social skills. And they will want their parents to explain why, when it was so easily prevented. Somehow, I don’t think that Shayla Cherry’s blog post will be a sufficient explanation for her son.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      SO sorry you have to deal with that. I agree, I can not understand how a person could want to see their child go through months of pain and risk permanent damage to their lungs. What does she think she is protecting him from?? I had most of the “normal” childhood diseases ( I am almost 60) they are painful and terrifying ( the hallucinations from the high fevers are something I still remember)

      • borkborkbork

        It doesn’t slow me down much, but thank you for the kind words. 🙂

        Although I had other illnesses, I was lucky enough to escape most of the “childhood” diseases, but I did catch chicken pox, and so did my siblings. I also remember the high fevers being very frightening, and all of us being pretty miserable with it. I am thankful that kids don’t have to go through that these days.

        By the way, I love your username. It is good advice.

        • Alicia

          I was fortunate that the only illness I caught was measles, but I was so miserable that I remember clearly how bad it was, and I was only 3 years old at the time. Kids remember things that cause them misery and pain.

        • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

          Thank you! I admit I stole it from Maxine, the Shoebox greeting card character…One of my favorite sayings of hers: “Emptying a bottle of Pinot counts as spring cleaning, right?” Also “It’s time to wave goodbye to winter. Guess which finger I will be using?”

  • Want another hate-read? Kate Tietje has a post on breastfeeding as “Biologically Normal.” Checks boxes for smugness, pseudoscientific claptrap, fear of processed foods, ableism, and more!

    http://modernalternativemama.com/2018/04/10/33966/

  • kilda

    “There is nearly zero risk of an American child catching diphtheria or polio.”

    Because we vaccinate against them, you freaking moron…..

    “Despite all of the fear-mongering around polio, it’s generally asymptomatic. When symptoms do appear, they are usually flu like. Fewer than one percent of people who contract polio experience paralysis.”

    Which is fine unless you happen to be that one percent. Which, if we still allowed large numbers of people to catch polio, would be a LOT of people.

    Sigh. So much stupidity for so early in the morning.

  • Rationalob

    My grandmother lost 3 children to complications of measles before vaccine was available. She then had my father who contracted polio as a child. Was not a minor illness and he now has post polio syndrome. I can’t imagine the words she would have for the anti Vaxers.

  • Gene

    OT: post dates baby dies in Colorado. This was >2y ago and mom is looking to sue. Link is Reddit. I’m going to C&P as well as link. Found it interesting the sentence at the end about thing just happen. Also excellent reply by a Perinatal pathologist.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/8cncoo/do_we_have_a_chance_to_sue_our_doctors_for/

    “To start off, this happened over 2 years ago. We tried pursuing legal action back then, but a few things prevented us:
    There are very few malpractice lawyers in Colorado.
    The hospital is refusing to give us medical records (I have tried countless of times, I have left voicemails, I have gone to the hospital in person, I have printed and faxed and mailed forms to request them, nothing.)
    Most lawyers we find refuse to look at the case without the medical records.
    I was able to actually talk to a lawyer, and he told me flat out that no one is going to take our case because in Colorado there is a cap for how much money someone can gain from malpractice cases, and a lawyers percentage of that isn’t worth their time.
    When we went to the doctors for our first visit and to find out the due date, the doctor got the date wrong. We know this because our medical records list the due date on the first page as October 22, and every page after as November 22. (The medical records we could not get are from the hospital we delivered him at, which was at a different hospital than we originally planned.) The pregnancy itself was normal. I did the test for gestational diabetes twice, both came back negative. My husband and I decided at about 15 weeks that we would rather go to a birthing center for the delivery and appointments, so we stopped going to our main provider, except for the gestational diabetes tests and when I needed second opinions. In October, I went into labor. Seeing my due date, the doctors thought I was going into premature labor. They chose to stop my labor and give me steroid shots so if I go into labor early again, the steroids will help him grow faster. Then they let me go until my “due date.” The week before he passed, I felt like something was wrong. I went to the birthing center and they said all was normal. I went to my original care provider twice that week to get checked again, and the last day I went, the doctor literally told me “everything is fine” and walked out of the room before I could say more. The day he was due, I couldn’t feel him moving, so we went to the birthing center and they couldn’t find a heart beat. We went to the hospital next door, and his heart wasn’t moving in the ultrasound. He was gone. They induced my labor, and I struggled for 24 hours before they realized he was too big to fit and I needed a c-section. The Autopsy says he died from gestational diabetes. He was too big for my placenta to support. He was 11 pounds when he was born. I didn’t have gestational diabetes. My medical records can prove that.
    I don’t care about the money, I just want some sort of justice. I don’t want to roll over and accept that stuff like this can happen and people can get away with it. Help me please.”

    • Gene

      Found the birth story. She doesn’t mention a birthing center at all.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/offmychest/comments/432c5t/my_pregnancy_loss_and_recovery_story/

      • swbarnes2

        Also, see how she says she thought her due date was November. In the other post, she’s hung up on getting her records from the hospital she delivered at, but I’m not sure how they should have known the dates were off, if both the mother and the birthing center said November. It’s not clear to me if an ultrasound, or anything else, would have let the delivering hospital know that the November date was wrong.

        The records she needs are the records of her interactions with HCP in the first half of the pregnancy, to find all the points where the dating error should have been caught.

    • Sue

      She says she had lots of ultrasounds – surely that would have sorted out the dates. Terrible to go through a stillbirth, but that doesn’t mean there was negligence.

      • swbarnes2

        She also said she went to a birthing center that didn’t do a lot of ultrasounds. She might mean that she got a lot in that last month, but I don’t think those are likely to have clued in the hospital that the dates were wrong.

        What she needed was ultrasounds early on. A nuchal translucency scan is supposed to happen in a 4 week window at the end of the first trimester; I wonder if she got one. I would think that a sonograoher would have been able to tell a 14 week fetus from an 18 week fetus?

    • MaineJen

      They *stopped her labor* when she was 4-6 weeks early? Ummmmmm.

      Also…someone randomly wrote the date wrong?? That’s malpractice, right? That’s a stupid mistake.

    • MI Dawn

      I have a LOT of questions about this story. First, she’d have been measuring way off her fundal height (4 weeks is a HUGE difference) unless people didn’t pay attention. Then she says she had ultrasounds, then she “didn’t have many”. But any u/s is going to verify due date if done early on. And if there is a question of dates – mom says EDC is 10/22, records say 11/22, as a midwife, I would have done a lot more questioning and gotten a dates verification u/s.

      I also have a hard time believing she can’t get her records from the hospital and doctors. She may not want to *pay* for them – legally, they can request payment for copying them – but they can’t legally withhold them if she pays for them.

      I’m very sorry for the stillbirth. It sounds like there are many questions (why test twice for GD if everything is going normally? If you’re worried about size, wouldn’t you get an u/s?) that are weird. And, in the comments, she mentions another baby that was apparently large for dates at birth. (closed the page, but IIRC 36 weeks c/s and baby was 7 1/2 lbs).

      • PeggySue

        There are several differences in her stories. Perhaps because of trauma, but the differences make me wonder what all actually went on.

  • Allie

    I don’t know what’s worse, the ignorance or the self-congratulatory tone. Actually, now that I think about it, the worst is the feigned concern for toddlers whose mothers have stopped breastfeeding.

    • Merrie

      Offhand, I’d say your average vaccinated toddler who no longer nurses who avoids getting pertussis is probably happier and healthier than this poor kid. How do anti-vaxers see their kids suffering with VPDs and not wish they had spared them? (answer: they think natcheral immunity is totes better and is worth suffering… smh) I can’t imagine putting my child through that. I had MMR vaccine but varicella vaccine came out too late for me. Chicken pox was miserable and I didn’t even have a particularly bad case all things considered. I’m glad my kids won’t have to suffer it. I was also hospitalized with a GI illness at age 2 and I’m glad rotovirus decreases the chances of that happening to my kids.

      • BeatriceC

        My kids have had all the shots except my oldest didn’t get the chicken pox vaccine because he got the actual chicken pox before he was old enough for the shot. He was born in 1999, when the shot was relatively new, and a bunch of older kids in my sister’s school hadn’t had it yet (including my sister), and it went through her school and she brought it home and gave it to my kid. Thankfully he had a relatively mild case, but an infant with chicken pox is not fun.

      • mabelcruet

        Imagine this poor baby in the next few years-there are some long term sequelae that could cause problems. I wonder if he could turn round at age 18 and sues his mother for not getting him vaccinated, exposing him to a dangerous illness and putting his life at risk.

    • mabelcruet

      These people use the same ‘tone’ all the time, its always ‘aren’t I wonderful? Look at how much I suffered, look at the sacrifices I made, look at how hard I worked, look at what I gave up to be a mother, look at me, look at me, look at me.’

      Her poor baby, suffering needlessly like that, traumatized and sick, and she is bleating on like a selfish bitch about how exhausted she is. Failure to seek medical attention for your child constitutes negligence and child neglect, no matter how frequently you stick your nipple in his mouth. Cruelty, pure and simple.

  • DelphiniumFalcon

    I’ll be honest people like this scare the shit out of me right now. I was lucky enough to not face major infertility issues despite that being a real possibility and I’ll be having twins in October. So we hope anyways. They may come early and that means even longer before I can protect them with vaccines and keep them from suffering if just one idiot at church or somewhere else decides not to vaccinate and they pass on something awful.

    I’m just so happy to be having kids that I can’t imagine giving vaccines a pass and making them suffer from something like this. Wouldn’t you want to give them every advantage you can? I mean my kids will never have chicken pox and miss a week of school like I did. And that week had an impact. I still suck at my x7 and x8 times tables.

    With how much they seem to love when their kids get sick sometimes I wonder if these people have some kind of munchausen’s by proxy.

    • momofone

      Congratulations!

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Thank you!

    • Amazed

      Congrats!

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Thank you! It has been a ride!

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      Congrats, Delph! Hope you three have as boring a year as possible!

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Thank you! Boring would be absolutely wonderful with as few hiccups as possible!

    • MaineJen

      FUn fact: I still can’t do the higher order x12 table in my head ;P

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        Now if man had been born with 6 fingers on each hand,
        He’d also have 12 toes or so the theory goes. Well, with twelve
        Digits, I mean
        Fingers, he probably would have invented two more
        Digits when he
        Invented his number system. Then, if he saved the zero
        For the end,
        He could count and multiply by twelve just as easily as
        You and I do
        By ten.

        Hey little twelve-toes, I hope you’re well….

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        I can’t do x12 to save my life so you’re ahead of me! Lol

      • BeatriceC

        If it makes you feel any better I suck at recalling all the multiplication facts. And I have a master’s degree. In math.

        I’m just going to hang my head in shame over in that corner over there.

        (To be fair, I know enough of them that the ones I tend to forget I can just count up or down from one I do know to one of the ones I just can’t remember if my life depended on it, but still, the fact remains that I don’t recall them all instantly.)

        • Tigger_the_Wing

          I’m convinced that mathematics was invented by people who were bad at arithmetic, so they wouldn’t have to do the hard work with heaps of numbers. The formulæ do the work for us.

    • PeggySue

      Congratulations and best wishes!

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Thank you very much!

    • FallsAngel

      Prematurity is not a reason to postpone vaccines, except sometimes Hep B vaccine.
      https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Immunizations-For-Preterm-Babies.aspx

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Woo! One less thing to worry about! Still scares me that there’s that vulnerable period before they can get the pertussis vaccines but this helps.

        • FallsAngel

          Glad I could be of help. Just make sure you get your Tdap before you deliver. Ask your doc when the best time would be. It’s supposed to be done between 27 and 36 weeks; you may want to get yours at the early end.

          https://www.cdc.gov/features/tdap-in-pregnancy/index.html

          Ed to fix link

    • KeeperOfTheBooks

      Congratulations!!!!

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Thank you!

    • Tigger_the_Wing

      Congratulations! Twins are fun; mine (who were born at 34 weeks) turned 25 in February, and they’re still best mates. The stuff they would get up to from the moment they could move deliberately was hilarious sometimes!

      • DelphiniumFalcon

        Thank you! And I’m glad to hear they are still good friends even grown up. And I am more than a little scared of what mine will get up to since both my husband and I were very busy toddlers and children.

  • Who?

    Has anyone got a book open on when our anti-vax buddies will turn up, who it will be and how long this thread will get?

    • Kq

      I came to see if theydt shown up yet.

      • MaineJen

        I call the “how dare you use this person’s private story for your own purposes!!!1!”

  • Anna

    I knew a woman whose unvaccinated son caught whooping cough and at first she was glad because now he’d had “lifelong immunity” as promised by the echo chambers. Fraid not, he got it again the next year and every time he got a cold thereafter the whoop would return, the vomiting, going blue and his lungs are permanently scarred. I think she got her son caught up after that.

    • Poor kid.

    • Kim

      That’s very unlucky, though, surely? Having whooping cough would normally give you immunity for many years. It’s unlucky to catch it twice, just as it would be with chicken pox, measles etc, though you do get exceptions (a girl in my daughter’s school caught chicken pox multiple times).

      • Tigger_the_Wing

        It depends on the particular immune system. My eldest son (despite being fully vaccinated) and I (who caught it for the first time when I was eight) have marginal immunity to pertussis, so we’ve each had whooping cough several times. I get regular boosters now that I can.

  • AnnaPDE

    Isn’t this CPS worthy? Denying medical care to your child for a life threatening illness, including relief from preventable suffering is a pretty sure sign of an unfit parent where I’m from….

    • sdsures

      CPS never intervenes because the parents are middle-class and white.

      *growls*

  • Who?

    So I just clicked onto the post about when to say ‘no’ to your toddler.

    She says an alarming amount that I agree with-pick your fights, don’t leave temptations in plain sight, constantly re-evaluate-then this gem, around setting limits:
    ‘I also limit the foods that he eats, because he’s very sensitive to
    processed food. Something as simple as cheese and crackers at a
    friend’s house can cause two days of pain.’

    So cheese and crackers=pain for a couple of days=no way. But months of broken nights, illness and suffering, all good!

    • Yeah. A lot of the advice she gives is straightforward, mainstream stuff–which she presents as if it’s some amazing discovery–and then you come across something insane.

    • Sheven

      Also, that’s bullshit. She claims he’s perfectly healthy but cheese and crackers at someone’s house makes him sick for days because it’s “processed.” Boiling quinoa is processing it. Mashing a banana is processing it. Sprinkling lemon juice on apples so they don’t go brown is processing them. But to a stupid, narcissistic new ager the word “processed” is like the word “toxin”: a buzzword you can blame everything on without ever defining it.

      • Who?

        Well yes, also true. The thing most guaranteed to give me a stomach ache is green apple on an empty stomach. Perhaps it’s the washing and cutting it up before chewing that causes the trouble…

        • Allie

          It probably wasn’t an organic apple only fertilized with unicorn poop and watered with the gluten-free tears of virgins : )

        • Reyna Elizondo

          I know you are not asking but this most lilely is because your body is not able to digest the high levels of fructose in a apple. Pretty common in people with irritable bowel syndrome

          • Who?

            Yes, I know why it happens. My point was, what could be more ‘healthy’ and delicious than a nice, crisp apple? But on an empty stomach, a green apple-not a red one-will give me a bad stomach ache every time.

            I don’t have IBS, but if the pain is what IBS sufferers routinely put up with I don’t blame them for seeking some resolution.

        • Sheven

          Knives are unnatural! You hit the nail on the head.

          Interestingly, Skittles will often cure my nausea. Once I had no idea why, but now I guess it must be because they’re natural and unprocessed.

          • Who?

            Interesting. I am languishing over Netflix as I recover from a uti and am snacking on jellybeans which do seem to help with the feeling sick element. Ordinarily I have no desire for them but in the chemist yesterday picking up the script they seemed like just the thing.

        • Gæst

          Ha. Raw foods give me stomach pain, bloating, and, well, further unpleasantness. Cooked foods (i.e., processed) do not. It’s a drag because there’s a lot of delicious raw produce, but it’s how I am.

          • Who?

            That is a drag. With me it’s only raw green apples, and only on an empty stomach. I’m such a fruit bat, would be miserable if it was more of a general problem.

          • Gæst

            Between the stomach pain, heartburn, and tooth pain, I eat very little raw fruit anymore. Fruit just doesn’t like me. But hey, it’s fine when cooked…like in a pie!

          • Who?

            Potentially tmi to follow.

            I am consciously cutting down on my raw fruit, since three weeks holiday in a place with a limited range of very expensive fruit (which somewhat curbed my habit) made me realise what it was doing to my middles: let’s just say my production based on the Bristol Stool chart looked a lot better while on holidays.

            I do like pie…

        • Sarah

          Gosh, I’m the complete opposite- if I feel bloated or stomach achy, a chopped apple is a good cure! People’s bodies can be so different.

          • Amazed

            Basically everyone I know feel ravenous after an apple or two. Me, I can exist on three apples a day feeling completely sated until the next day greets me with a headache that is my stomach’s ambassador and demands that I put something in it.

    • kilda

      ‘Something as simple as cheese and crackers at a
      friend’s house can cause two days of pain.’

      probably because he’s outraged by the discovery that other families have tasty food! “why can’t I ever have cheese and crackers instead of organic quinoa with unpasteurized goat’s milk?”

    • Mimc

      Also if cheese and crackers causes pain she should really get her kid to an allergist.

  • Liz Leyden

    “He didn’t eat for days, but he nursed and nursed and nursed.”

    So he didn’t eat, but he ate? Are you trying to impress people by feeding your child?

    • Sheven

      Also, coughs make your throat sore. Of course you mostly drink warm liquids.

      Mostly, though, I don’t trust someone that narcissistic to tell the truth. She’ll say anything that she believes reflects well on her.

  • lawyer jane

    O/T – My son had horrible hacking coughs all winter the year he was 1. What’s the chance that this was pertussis? He never got tested, and I didn’t push it since when I first started to consider it, it had been a couple of months and at that point he wouldn’t have been contagious any more or treated any differently.

    • Kq Not Signed In

      My son had a nasty cough for weeks last year – it would get better and then worse, and a couple times he coughed so hard he vomited. He is fully vaccinated, but because there was an active pertussis outbreak in our area, the doctor thought it was worth testing. Test was miserable for him (its like a strep test, but with a foot long q-tip that goes in through the nose and down the back of the throat!) and came back negative.

      And our insurance charged us for it. Because it was negative and therefore it was unnecessary. And yes, they said they would have covered it if he tested positive…

      • Your insurance is ridiculous.

        • Kq

          Well I do live in the USA…

          • Thiel

            Strangely, mine is the opposite- negative tests are free because they’re preventative care. Positive tests aren’t preventative, so they have a 50% co-pay. Either way, it’s stupid.

          • Who?

            I can’t even…a test is a test-how does it make sense to charge (or not) depending on the outcome.

      • kilda

        that’s actually kind of hilarious. note to insurance company: if we knew ahead of time how to only send tests that were going to come back positive, we wouldn’t actually need the tests.

    • fiftyfifty1

      Unlikely. Hacking coughs all winter long are pretty common at that age.

    • Kim

      The cough you get with whooping cough is very distinctive and quite unlike a normal hacking cough. (I had whooping cough as a child, before the vaccine was universally available.)

  • Heidi

    She wants a congratulations for not starving her child yet still being irresponsible enough to not take him to a doctor when she has easy access to one? Do i get to write an essay about how peanut butter has kept my child growing some days? I mean, that’s all that happened – a privileged white lady chose not to starve her child, not really out of love, but because she felt all the credit went to her because the source of nutrition came out of her breasts. She lucked up and he didn’t die. Cow’s milk, pediasure, toddler formula, Ovaltine, etc. would have provided him adequate enough nutrition too. Not too surprised though. We see it with anti-vax parents all the time. They want their children to get sick so they can get credit for nursing them back to health when they happen not to face immediately fatal consequences. I mean, Ciapet loved to go on about nursing her daughter back to health after every VPD she would catch.

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      Not starving your child is more impressive if you have to skip many meals yourself to do it, and no one congratulates parents who must. Certainly no one congratulated my parents.

  • MI Dawn

    Hey, I read her post on vaccines and got a coverall on my Bingo card! what do I win?

    Seriously, this woman has a PhD in Google research and no brains. Her poor baby. Strange how her 18 month breast fed baby caught pertussis, while my breast/bottle fed, weaned by a year, fully vaccinated babies have never had it.

    I wish I could give that baby lots of snuggles and cuddles and then get him vaccinated so he doesn’t have to suffer other VPDs.

    • MI Dawn

      I also think I lost many brain cells from reading just those 2 posts.

  • CSN0116

    “Shayla Cherry writes about holistic health and conscious parenting on her blog, Mama Revolution.”

    “Conscious parenting” LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

    Another bored-ass, privileged, 40-something, white woman. I’m seriously starting to grow deep prejudice. These nuts always share the same characteristics.

    • ukay

      I wish they would just leave their kids alone and do something with themselves.

    • She also doesn’t believe in discipline, either–or praise for good behavior. You’re just supposed to figure out the child’s underlying needs and foster connection:

      http://mamarevolution.us/unconditional-parenting/

      http://mamarevolution.us/peaceful-parenting/

      Mind, not everything she says is completely bananas…but I think that scolding a toddler for throwing a block at your head is okay, even if you did have the effrontery to not pay attention to him because you were on the phone. And, uh, I do want obedient children who, for instance, won’t run onto the road when I tell them to stop; I doubt it will break their spirit to learn that they need to listen to Mommy and Daddy. I think this is a little different from demanding conformity in everything of a teenager, for instance.

      • Gæst

        Oh, sounds like RIE. There isn’t anything really wrong it it, but those people way overthink how to form a strong relationship with your child. Me, I play games on the iPad with my son and we bonded over that. I don’t even let him play, because it’s my iPad.

      • Amazed

        Wow! Last week, I was a substitute mom for Amazing Niece. Sad to confess that I didn’t bother trying to figure out her underlying needs when she tried to bite me a few times – I just assumed that she needed to bite me for some reason. And *I* certainly didn’t need it, so the punishment was doled out.

        I don’t know, her mom seemed perfectly content with me not being an underlying needs seeker but prosecutor, judge, and high priestess. And of course, the cuddle-giver. And the reader. And the fellow-player. And the feeder. No, in fact I don’t think she even gave the last one a thought. It was simply assumed that once the kid was in my care, I would feed her.

        Little did we know…

        Self-inserted confession: Amazing Niece still has an egg allergy (she has outgrown two other and NO, she was not breastmilk-starved), so she can’t eat homemade cheese-pastry. We buy her some bakery ones since those are made without eggs. Sadly, they’re as processed as they come but she loves them. Once, she saw me putting one into the microwave and went ecstatic: Aunty has made cheese pastry! For Amazing Niece! This is how glory is gained…

      • Amazed

        A friend of mine: I ALWAYS lead by example! I NEVER demand of my kids to do something that I don’t do myself! Another friend: err, in my house kids and parents have different privileges and that’s it. We are allowed not to have a bedtime, drink coffee and wine, go deep into the sea and a myriad of other things that are allowed to all parents and forbidden to all kids.

        • momofone

          My son has recently started trying out new ways of arguing his point. “It’s a free country!” is one of my favorites. It certainly is. But that country doesn’t start until the outside doorstep of our house, and inside here it’s a dictatorship.

          • Amazed

            The last bit of Amazing Niece news, literally from an hour ago: she’s been wailing and wailing. The Intruder tries to take her out of it by suggesting that they sing a song. Her answer? Stops crying and and says, very matter-of-factly: I’m crying at the moment! Cue renewed wailing.

            Wonder if conscious parenting would demand an instant visit to a holistic psychologist or accepting that she’s a two year old and meltdowns are expected from time ti time.

            ETA: Where do you live? I need to know where to send social workers!

          • Who?

            Quite so. Mostly benevolent, always with an eye to the big picture, but a dictatorship nonetheless.

        • Steph858

          Depends on how old the kids are. When I was in primary school, that was pretty much how our household worked. But with teens (and precocious preteens like I was) letting them do stuff you’d rather they didn’t while preparing a well-timed ‘I told you so’ can work wonders. For example with bedtimes, letting me stay up late one schoolnight and meeting my protestations that I was still tired when she dragged me out of bed the next morning with nowt but a smugly raised eyebrow saved my mum hundreds of future arguments over bedtimes. Some kids just have to learn these things the hard way.

          • Amazed

            Well, their kids were quite small at the time. Anyway, I can’t imagine a working household where the rights of parents and kids are exactly the same. I didn’t have a bedtime, for one, but I was restricted in other ways that my mom wasn’t. I rebelled very spectacularly and I was shown that if I wanted my mom’s right and privileges, I could get MOST of them but… only by taking her obligations as well. My privilege lust lasted for about a day – and yes, I did learn the hard way.

      • kilda

        so you don’t discipline them OR praise them for good behavior? they’re just supposed to magically intuit how to be a good person? yeah, that will end well.

        • Don’t worry, she tells the kid no when he’s about to do something really dangerous, like eat cheese and crackers.

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      Hope that doesn’t include me! ‘though “privilege” is a relative term.

      • Heidi

        I’m a 30-something, sometimes bored, privileged white lady. However, I don’t gloat about doing something that is so easy for me to do, such as feeding my child. I don’t relieve my boredom by getting my child sick because I refuse to vaccinate, don’t take him to the doctor, and then act as if my boob milk is the reason he’s not dead. Then I don’t blog about how wonderful and heroic I am when I should be deeply ashamed for causing so much pain and suffering. I think that’s the key difference.

    • Gæst

      I’m a fan of unconscious parenting. My kids watch TV while I nap.

      • MaineJen

        Netflix: Are you still watching Magic School Bus?

        Me, blindly feeling for remote: Yes, goddamnit…

  • Sheven

    Shayla, I know what that whoop feels like from the inside. It feels terrifying, because you don’t know if your body will let you breathe. It feels horrifying, because just as you are sucking in the air you need–the air you need because you are suffocating yourself–your body cuts you off again. It feels like your throat and lungs are being shredded, and if you do your research about the long-term effects of whooping cough, there is a good chance your child’s lungs are permanently damaged.

    Shame on you for inflicting that on your child. Shame on you for gulping down the disinformation of quacks about the dangers of vaccines while not bothering to check with actual physicians about the dangers of NOT getting vaccines. Shame on you for bragging about the suffering you inflicted on your son. You are a bad mother.

  • CSN0116

    Breast milk let her child contract pertussis regardless of its “protective properties” and breast milk took 100 days to “cure” her child.

    Umm. That’s supposed to impress me into breastfeeding a toddler?

  • Mel

    I wouldn’t recommend bragging about her self-education when she learned that vaccines have really bad side effects and that the chances of a kid catching the illness was very low – but forgot to look up what the illnesses themselves were like.

    Just….wow.

    Really, the time to learn about pertussis is before she chose not to vaccinate not when her kid is hacking a lung up.

    Modern medicine does have options for reducing the severity of the hacking but she apparently didn’t feel the need to avail those resources for her kid.

    A friend of mine got to take codeine through an entire chunk of her third trimester of pregnancy because the risks of exposing the baby to a low dose of codeine were much less than the risks of a broken rib or aspiration pneumonia from hacking all the time. Her kid’s a pre-teen now and he’s fine; my friend had missed the change-over from DT vaccination to DTaP vaccination by a few months with her last booster shot.

    • Who?

      Thing is, to learn about it beforehand assumes her efforts to ensure how healthy he is, how well he eats and all the rest of it, will fail. Because of the echo chamber she has chosen, she’s not to know that being ‘healthy’ and ‘eating well’ will not protect against, or affect the severity of, pertussis (or measles) because the illnesses are so very contagious.

      Country cemetries from the old days are full of kids who ate well, lived an open air life, and died of vpds anyway.

      I once coughed until I fractured a rib. Most seriously unpleasant.

  • Empress of the Iguana People

    Because heaven knows when my babies got sick at 18 months old, we just let them cough while we partied or something. You can snuggle a sick toddler while they drink a cup of milk, and clearly the majik boobjuice didn’t prevent pertussis. Also, my kids had ordinary colds, because they and their parents have all gotten vaccinated within the last 3 years.
    BTW: “Overweening” has me giggling inappropriately.

  • Revolting. I thought we wouldn’t have another case like that vile woman who allowed her 3 kids to contract whooping cough, then bragged about how little sleep she got and what a warrior mama she was; this creature seems to be much the same, however, down to her obliviousness.

  • Alice Wood

    Not everyone who breastfeeds is stupid, of course! I breastfed my daughter but of course she has also had all her vavcvacc.

    • No, of course not! There isn’t anything wrong with breastfeeding; it simply isn’t a substitute for proper medical care.

    • Empress of the Iguana People

      My son was breastfed. And vaccinated. Thus he breastfed through many colds but nowadays just gets parental snuggles and cups of milk. He’s 4 1/2

    • MaineJen

      Me too! We breastfed until 2, and she still got ear infections. No whooping cough, though!

      • Allie

        Yep, I breastfeed until damn near 2 (not by choice, exactly, but she was a terrible sleeper, and I didn’t know how else to cope with the night wakings), and LO still got 2 ear infections, pink eye, some nasty-ass colds/flus, and one bout of tonsillitis despite the “majik boobjuice” (thank you, Empress!). I had the nerve to complain in an online mommy group that BF didn’t seem all that great at preventing illness, despite all the hype, and boy did people lose their shiz : )

    • Sarah

      Of course. Breastfeeding as part of a varied diet is a perfectly appropriate and valid way to feed an 18 month old. The fact that she’s breastfeeding is about the only non-worrying part of the post.

  • MaineJen

    “There is nearly zero risk of an American child catching diphtheria or polio.”
    BECAUSE OF VACCINES, YOU FLAMING IDIOT.
    “He developed a sharp, desperate inhale; a characteristic whoop every mother hopes to never hear. ”
    Most of us never do hear it, BECAUSE WE VACCINATE OUR KIDS.
    Sorry for the all caps, but…really.

    • Mel

      I’m assuming there was nearly zero risk of a Spanish 6-year old catching diphtheria either – but that kid did and died from it a few years ago in spite of modern medical care including anti-toxin and breathing support.

      These are not good diseases to play around with; they are sadistic and often have side-effects that kill and main as easily today as they did 50 or 100 years ago.

      • fiftyfifty1

        I was vacationing in Spain during that poor kid’s ICU stay and eventual death. The whole country (and me) were following every development in the news, praying for recovery. I remember thinking what a tragedy it was. And thinking about how many times this same tragedy had played out in the years before vaccines.

        • kilda

          that’s the crazy thing. Children dying of diphtheria used to be a totally ordinary, unremarkable thing. Now, because of vaccines, it’s so rare it makes the national news. Because we vaccinate. And yet some people still can’t see what a blessing vaccines are.

    • ukay

      This. It gets my blood boiling.every.single.time.

    • Allie

      Word.

    • Amazed

      Nearly zero risk? Not quite, you fucking idiot. Each time a self-important bitch like this one decides not to vaccinate but instead milk on the consciousness and sacrifice of others, the risk goes up.

      You know what? I think pigs like this deserve to have their kids catch whooping cough. The bad thing is, the suffering is on the children who most certainly does NOT deserve it. But at least the bitches’ comfortable, milking life gets disturbed somewhat.

      • Who?

        They love the sickness though-the whooping cough is a plus for the mums-martyr points, proves the disease isn’t such a big deal (because they sugar coat all the experiences).

        And when something does end up being permanently wrong with the child (like the wretched woman here who starved her baby and blamed the trouble the girl had on austism from a vaccination) they blame everyone else for evermore while shining up their martyr badges. Heroes in their miserable communities.

        • Amazed

          Yes but at least they suffer watching their children suffer, no matter how they polish the narrative and badges later. I need to believe that their kids being miserable truly disturbs them. I mean, they can’t be such monsters as to actually enjoy it in real time, right?

          • Who?

            Dunno-I think ultimately they must be fine with it or they wouldn’t do it. In real time all kinds of kid things are annoying and uncomfortable, even good ones: standing in the freezing cold watching football is an example.

            I’d like to think you’re right, but I am unconvinced.

        • kilda

          plus they then say it totally would have been so much worse if not for their magical breastmilk.

    • kilda

      funny how the magic of breastmilk didn’t stop the baby from getting it in the first place. And funny how it turned out pertussis actually is a terrible disease that causes months of misery, not a minor, character-and-immune-system annoyance like these idiots always claim VPDs to be.

  • Megan

    Parenthood as performance art. Too bad it’s not only poor entertainment for anyone but dangerous to boot.

  • fiftyfifty1

    What a jerk to dismiss diphtheria. It’s a gruesome way to die, and it’s only gone because of vaccination. Actually it’s not gone, it could roar back in an instant just like it did in Russia where amid governmental chaos they stopped giving the vaccination for only a couple of years.
    I think I have already shared on this site a conversation I had with a very very old patient of mine a few years ago. She was a first year teacher sent to a rural school in the Dakotas during the 1930’s. A little boy in her class caught diphtheria and died. There was nothing they could do to save him. And there she was in my clinic, bawling about Billy, a “wonderful child bright as a spark” who had been dead almost 80 years.

    • lawyer jane

      Diptheria is terrifying! The strangling angel. It’s astonishing to think of what parents had to deal with back before vaccines .. I can’t imagine the despair.

      • Liz Leyden

        An elderly woman told me she had pertussis as a baby, in the early 1950s. Apparently, her mother had to reach down her throat and beeak the membrane several times.

        • AnotherOor

          My aunt had it as a baby and later had to have half a lung removed it was so damaged. She still has problems and is now in her 60’s.

      • Merrie
        • seenthelight

          Thank you! I have gone looking for that link with no luck recently.

      • MaineJen

        All it took for me to fear diphtheria was reading Stewart O’Nan’s A Prayer For the Dying. It’s about a whole town dying of diphtheria because the country doctor doesn’t wash his hands between examining patients. Chilling.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      Tetanus is no fun either.

    • Box of Salt

      Never mind Russia, this happened in Spain:

      https://globalnews.ca/news/2079381/boy-dies-from-diphtheria-in-spain-parents-had-rejected-vaccine/

      Russia did provide anti-toxin (only place in the world anyone had any, due to their own recent resurgence), but it didn’t help

      https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/77-150627231118-six-year-old-boy-with-diphtheria-in-catalonia-dies

    • Amazed

      My grandmother had diphtheria and lived! This totally proves it’s harmless.

      ‘course, her brother didn’t. I mean, he had it and he didn’t live. THIS also proves something…

      • kilda

        totally. I don’t know anyone alive today who has died of diphtheria. Obviously that proves it’s harmless.

    • Mimc

      Sometimes I’d like to drag anti-vac people out to the old grave yard near my families original homestead and show them all the graves were the two dates are within five year of each other. Vaccines are one of the best things that ever happened to motherhood.

  • Cartman36

    This makes me so angry. Her poor baby should have been playing and doing all sorts of fun new activities instead of cooped up with a preventable illness for months with his crazy mother.

  • momofone

    Going to the pediatrician today for 11-yr well visit, and I think she said he’ll get meningococcal and HPV vaccines today (this was a couple years ago, so I may be remembering wrong). Not looking forward to the short-term part (as in “it’s time for you to get these”), but very happy about the part where he doesn’t get pertussis (or any of the others). Not sure what we’d do if he got them, since he’s weaned and all.

    • You don’t breastfeed your 11-year-old?! And you pump him full of vaccines?! What kind of mother are you???

      (Answer: The kind who doesn’t congratulate herself on leaving her child vulnerable to preventable illnesses.)

      • momofone

        I know, I know. The shame! I also pump him full of whatever food he is willing to be bribed with when it’s time for all the chemiculz! (I always cringe a little bit when he tells the doctor and nurse that he’ll go along with it because he gets a cheeseburger out of the deal, but whatever works!)

        I guess we could try breastfeeding again, but it may be complicated since my breasts are in a lab several hours away. Excuses, excuses, right?!

        • Kelly

          Hey, it means that a cheeseburger is a treat and not an every day occurrence if he is excited about it. I bribed my three young kids with donuts so that they would sit through their sister’s ultrasound. It may have also been because I woke up ten minutes before we were supposed to leave and it was the only way to get them out of the house fast enough. Also, an older parent told me that I’m not bribing my kids because a bribe is when you give the treat before they do their part but we are rewarding them for good behavior.

        • Liz Leyden

          My kids’ pediatrician’s office is across from a coffee shop that sells ice cream.

          • BeatriceC

            My kids’ pediatrician in Florida shared a parking lot with a Burger King. I’m pretty sure that BK made a fair amount of money on child/vaccine bribes.

  • She’s an idiot. And brags about it.