Welcome to another edition of homebirth death watch

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There are so many women routinely dangling their babies over the abyss of homebirth death that I could create my own blog based reality show called Homebirth Death Watch. Consider the excitement: unedited, outcome unknown, innocent babies exposed to hideous deaths … by their own mothers.

Perhaps I will.

In our first episode Ariel risked the life of her son Gambit (I’m not kidding about the name!) by insisting on attempting a HBA4C, a homebirth after four Cesareans. She never got anywhere near delivering vaginally and waited until her son was nearly dead (heart rate in the 50’s) before agreeing to a C-section, which had to be done under general anesthesia. But at least he’s alive.

In today’s episode, Ingrid is risking the life of her PREMATURE baby; her membranes have been ruptured for more than 72 hours and she does not know if she’s colonized with group B strep (a known killer of newborns to which premature babies are especially vulnerable) since she refused to be tested.

Ok ladies I need some prayers and support/encouragement.

Currently she’s being encouraged in this idiocy by a Greek chorus of buffoons (“get a pedicure!”)  in the Home Birth Support Network.

No, Ingrid, you don’t need support or encouragement (or a pedicure). You need a reality check. Go to the hospital because your baby’s life is in danger!

Once membranes rupture the risk of infection starts to rise and rises precipitously after 24 hours. Premature babies like yours are particularly vulnerable to infection. Your baby could die without you ever feeling a thing.

Refusing group B strep testing was idiotic. Group B strep is the biggest threat to your baby, and, of course, premature babies are especially vulnerable. Why are you douching with Hibiclens; it can’t be because it is natural, right? Your midwife recommended it NOT because it works better than antibiotics but because she can’t keep control of you as a patient if you go to the hospital for antibiotics. Do you really want to let your baby die to improve your midwife’s finances?

 

Ingrid 1

No, you CAN’T treat GBS with vitamins, probiotics, echinacea or garlic. Are you really so gullible and desperate to have a homebirth that you will fall for the claim that antibiotics can be replaced with stuff you can buy at the grocery store? Are you willing to risk your baby’s life on that nonsense?

What might be happening to your baby right now?

Here’s what a commentor who is a pathologist wrote in regard to the baby who died after his mother stayed home with ruptured membranes for 5 days:

When I do an autopsy on a stillbirth I always take a section of stomach to look at microscopically. I can physically see the pus in the stomach, clusters of neutrophils, white blood cells that have collected in the fluid and that the baby has subsequently swallowed. I can physically see the pus in the lungs where the baby has aspirated pus cells, because babies practice breathing in utero , and so suck all this pus into their lungs. And you know what? The pus is mixed with squames, skin cells that the baby has shed, and in its last desperate frantic panic it starts to gasp and draws these deep into its lungs.

These babies are literally swimming in a bag full of pus, in a giant bacterial laden boil. They are swimming in it, swallowing it, breathing it, and I see the end result. And you know what else? It makes me despair that there are midwives out there who write this off as normal. Membranes ruptured for 5 days? Not a problem….

And when the baby is born dead, not sleeping, and covered in meconium, and he stinks of bacterial poisons, and I see the pus, I want whoever delivered that baby in front of me, so that they can see this is not a game. This is not a game of ‘ooh, doctors are horrible, they just want to cut you, so let’s pretend there’s nothing wrong’.

Your baby is at even greater risk than a term baby.

Is that what you want? Is a homebirth so important to you that you would let your baby marinate in pus for days?

Sure your baby could still be born fine and not succumb to infection, just like your baby could survive if you drove drunk with him in the backseat, but is it worth the risk?

You’re in the spotlight now, Ingrid. Think carefully about what you are willing to risk. We’re watching and hoping you make the right decision and head to the hospital NOW!

  • EllenL

    Think of the level of commitment it takes to have already bought a t-shirt that says Born at Home.

    And think how galling it would be not to be able to use that t-shirt, for it to be a symbol of failure.

    That’s what we’re up against.

  • luckymama75

    Is she hatted with a disposable diaper on?? Doesn’t this mom know her woo? In all seriousness though, delighted baby girl made it.

    • Daleth

      Disposable diaper?! No, she is clearly the type of mama to craft her own biodegradable diapers out of peat moss.

  • Amy Tuteur, MD

    Update, her baby survived!

    Let the boasting begin.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      Did she have GD? That’s a friggin HUGE baby for 37 weeks. I find it hard to believe.

      • PeggySue

        I’m sure she would tell you she did not have GD. Because I’m sure she wasn’t tested for it! Right?

      • Megan

        My daughter was nearly this big at 37+4 and I was tested for GD and didn’t have it. So it is possible to just have a big baby! But who knows about Ingrid. I’m sure she refused GD testing if she refused something as simple as testng for GBS.

        So glad her baby is ok…

        • Mac Sherbert

          I had an ultrasound at 37 something weeks and the baby was 7 lbs something. It thought that sounded big, but doctor wasn’t too concerned. Baby was born at 40 weeks 1 day and was over 9 lbs. They said I didn’t have GD according to the 2hour test.

      • Cobalt

        Could be iffy dates, too. I had a 7.5 pounder at 37 weeks, but I had GD.

      • atheist mommy/Oma

        I had a 10 pounder at 37+4 but I had GD.

      • Mel

        I’m wondering if she was way off on her dates. My brother went 10 days post-date and was covered in vernix.

        If she never had a dating ultrasound – which the deep woo-ers avoid due to…I dunno….aural contamination? – she could have been at any combination of 39-42 weeks.

      • JessieJean

        I don’t agree in any way, shape or form with her staying home for 6 days post rupture. However, as for the “big baby” concerns at that gestation…I am someone who just happens to make big babies, no GD involved. First babies, a set of twins at 37+2, were 6lbs and 6lbs 15oz. Third baby at 38+1 was 8lbs 7oz. Last baby at 37+3 was the same size as hers, 7lbs 10oz.

    • Amazed

      Thank God!

    • PeggySue

      Glad the baby is OK. Whew!

    • KarenJJ

      first land birth? Her previous c-sections were done at sea?

    • Cobalt

      Thank goodness the little one pulled through.

    • JJ

      Did she have a baby 6 days after her water breaking?! I am shocked she was ok and thank God.

    • sony2282

      Devil’s advocate here- maybe her water didn’t break a week earlier like she thought!? I’m a labor nurse and for every 1 people in triage who come in with ruptured membranes we get at least 8 others who THOUGHT their water broke and it was just mucous/pee/etc. So maybe it was mucous with her too and she just happened to go into labor then a week later!?

      • Mel

        And I wonder how “premature” the baby actually was. If she never got a dating ultrasound (and she may not have…) and had light bleeding around the time she would have missed a period, she may have been a month farther along than she was thinking she was. That would be as easy explanation for a baby that was actually something like 40 weeks or early 41 weeks and it would explain the thick vernix.

      • Mac Sherbert

        Yes. I know they didn’t take me seriously when I was signing that my water had broken. I finally told them I was going to sit down because water was running down my leg as the pad I had put on before leaving house was soaked and leaking.

    • Montserrat Blanco

      I am so glad the baby is OK.

    • KeeperOfTheBooks

      Thank God her baby is alright. That poor kid.

    • dbistola

      Super glad! This was really worrying me. I have been checking in for days. Now I await a nice takedown of Ingrid by good Dr. T for scaring the crap out of us. Go to town.

    • Mel

      I find the announcement itself odd. Really weird. Perhaps it’s because of the audience, but our family and friends would have written it like this:

      Our little Evie Hope is here! She’s 7lbs 10oz and 21 inches long! We love her so much and we’re both doing fine!

    • Schnitzelbank

      Ingrid/Mae’s baby doesn’t look well, though. I swear, that picture looked like a post-mortem. The baby looked slack, waxy, with an all-over mottled skin tone. Had she not posted a few other pictures with her eyes open, I would’ve sworn we were being “Weekend-At-Bernie’s”-ed.

      Unknown gestation and a whole host of other unknowns (GD, GBS, did the newborn get Vit K, etc) still worries me. That baby is not out of the woods.

      • MDP

        And all she got was that stupid T-shirt.

      • Medwife

        Hope this is just baby napping, because her tone is not there.

        • sdsures

          Do you mean skin tone or muscle tone?

      • Mac Sherbert

        Hope you are wrong and this baby is just fine. Not sure about the t-shirt though…what is that a picture of? Matching hat and booties I kind of like.

      • DaisyGrrl

        I was wondering if the baby was safely out of the woods yet. Born alive is one thing, born thriving another. I don’t trust CPMs to adequately assess newborn health. I hope little Evie does well and thrives.

        • Laural

          I share your concern; poor punkin’. I’m afraid of infection from having the membranes ruptured for so long. But I am an incurable worry-wart. She is so darling, sweet Evie.

      • EllenL

        I’m glad little Evie has arrived and is doing well. Very
        cute baby.

        I see the bragging has begun (“Born at home”). Next will
        come “If I did it, you can, too!”

        “Vernix, cervical lip” – Really, with this depth of knowledge, who
        needs a doctor? Besides, in a pinch, you can always consult the Internet.

      • sdsures

        Why do people care whether or not the baby was covered in goop?

    • yentavegan

      Baruch Hashem. Now maybe I can get a decent nights sleep.

    • Medwife

      SIX DAYS RUPTURED?????? It’s impossible for me to add enough question marks to express my, what, shock? Horror? God. I hope baby isn’t septic. She bears close watching for the first few days!

  • Megan

    I have a feeling there arent going to be updates. I would love to know how things turned out but find the silence to be a bad sign. Incidentally, while looking for an update I noticed that in the past Ingrid has used the same photo but gone by the name Mae Jones on FB in the past. I sincerely hope everything went well and will continue to look for an update here…

    • I monitor a lot of high risk people choosing UP/UC online (“freebirth”) and there are almost no updates most of the time. Its usually a picture of the baby only or silence. I wish there was some kind of recording of this data nation wide so those babies didn’t get maimed or killed for no reason.

  • KeeperOfTheBooks

    OT, I know, but I just had to find a safe place to rant…
    I just read about yet ANOTHER homebirth on another Catholic mom blog. Oh, sure, the midwife didn’t show up in time, but that’s okay! Grandma caught, and it was all magical sparkly unicorns and now grandma will help with the baby and toddler for the next few weeks while mom stays in bed and nurses, because Everyone Has A Community Like That, right? And that’s what Good Catholic Moms do! And they didn’t have to go to that nasty hospital!
    I’m so tired of it. So very, very tired. The faith-based twist is what makes it even worse, because my faith is important to me, but it doesn’t actually teach that a mom has to homebirth/breastfeed/whatever. I guess I bought into all that, and then DD came via C-section, and nursing was sheer hell and never worked out, and my PPD ruined most of her first year, and I have never, ever had that kind of support in my life. It was a humbling experience, and that was probably, in a way, a good thing because it taught me personally that this stuff doesn’t always work out. DH had to go back to work ASAP. Hell, I wanted to spend the week after DD came lying on the couch and snuggling her, but that wasn’t okay: though MIL was here to “help,” I still had to do all the cooking/cleaning/laundry. I got the impression that my even handing DD off so I could do incision care/take a shower was seen as being sort of “princessy.”
    I guess I’m jealous and sad. I wish I could have had that kind of experience. I know that I won’t, because HBAC is freaking stupid and because I don’t have a support system. I moved to this area after DH and I got married because of his job, so I have few friends here. His friends’, male and female, idea of support is “show up to see the baby and watch the game and have KoTB cook us dinner.” I still remember one afternoon after a HORRIBLE night when DD was two weeks old. She finally fell asleep on my chest, and I lay back on the couch to rest/doze some myself, only to be woken up by my MIL shortly thereafter so that I could get myself looking presentable and feed the baby before friends came over. Because God forbid someone see me try to nurse, and God forbid I not be made up at 2 weeks postpartum with an freaking infected incision. She did make dinner that night…but I still had to clean up after it. I suppose it wasn’t really her responsibility in the first place, but help would have been nice.
    The damage I’ve had from the homebirth/faith-based-mom-blogs stuff is absolutely nonexistent compared to the moms who lost kids or had kids injured or died in the process, but that doesn’t mean all this doesn’t really suck sometimes. It set me up for totally unreasonable expectations–expectations I should, I suppose, have recognized as unreasonable, but…damn, I’m still miserable about it sometimes, and this is one of those days, particularly as we contemplate another kid and I think about dealing with all of that all over again, but with a toddler.
    I’m sorry. I just needed a place to have the equivalent of a good cry. I believe that I can offer days like this up as a sort of prayer for an intention, so I’ll send it off for Ingrid and her baby. Please, please let them be okay. Please.

    • demodocus’ spouse

      I wonder what they’d say if you reminded them Jesus wasn’t born at home, but in what passed for a stable of last resort. Eh, probably wouldn’t even ruffle a single feather

      • KeeperOfTheBooks

        I say this bitterly but not to be rude about the persons involved: it would probably be further proof that Mary knew that birth was no big deal, since she had the Savior of the World in a stable. This would also, and I am quite serious, lead to a discussion on how “Mary breastfed, so you should, too.” There is a LOT of that in some Catholic circles, up to and including a devotion to Mary as a lactating mother–Our Lady of La Leche, a devotion to which inspired the founding of the La Leche League. It’s always seemed to me to be especially stupid to hold Mary’s physical ability to produce milk as something to revere. Her bravery? Sure. Her love of God? Absolutely. Her trust in Him? Fine. Her sinlessness? Okay. All of that makes a certain amount of sense if you accept the premises of our faith about her. But…really? Revere her for a biological process? WHY?! It honestly makes no sense on either a logical or a theological level.

        • demodocus’ spouse

          Well God *would* make sure that his only son survived to be killed as an adult. I have my doubts about the whole story anyway, but then I’m not much of a believer.

        • CharlotteB

          I was looking for sleep-training ideas, and came across a Catholic blog where the author? A commentor? Totally dismissed CIO on the basis that the Blessed Virgin Mary wouldn’t have done that to the baby Jesus.

          I mean, we know NOTHING about the baby Jesus’s sleep or naps. Faith aside, I thought that was a very silly reason to dismiss CIO. I also posted it on facebook, and sparked quite the conversation about theology and sleep-training, haha.

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            I hadn’t come across that one, but I can totally see it. You’re right: that is one of the silliest reasons I’ve ever heard not to use CIO. *facepalm* Signed, a mom who, as per the pediatrician, moved DD to her own room and used CIO at three months.

          • Cobalt

            Mary didn’t drive a minivan, spring for piano lessons, or send her kid to soccer camp, either. Doesn’t mean I shouldn’t.

          • CharlotteB

            Well, we do know she swaddled and didn’t co-sleep, so clearly all babies need to sleep in a manger, since the baby Jesus did.

            I went to an Eastern Orthodox Church for a bit, and they sure did talk about breastfeeding–there was a line in a prayer about “the paps that thou [Jesus] had sucked.”

            I mean, sure, that’s one way to put it…

            (I don’t *think* that sort of thing translated into judgement about ️️formula vs breast, although I don’t really know as I was a teenager and didn’t care.)

          • KeeperOfTheBooks

            Come to think of it, she wouldn’t have homeschooled, either.

    • moto_librarian

      (((Hugs)))

      Stories like yours are why I will continue to advocate for the needs of mothers even though I am not going to be having anymore children of my own. I hate the way that birth/postpartum/breastfeeding are built up as these sublime experiences, and if they weren’t perfect for you, well, must not have been trying hard enough mama! I did not enjoy the newborn period with my first child. We had no help until my mom was able to come down ten days after he was born (little stinker was ahead of his due date, and my mother had to plan her leave in advance). I was trying to nurse, and in the sheer hell of pumping/supplementing/putting baby to breast, in a lot of pain from my cervical laceration, and exhausted from not sleeping and blood loss. I do not look back on that period of time with much fondness, but at least I didn’t lapse into PPD (thank you, Zoloft!). Reality for most of us is far from ideal. If we were more honest about that, it wouldn’t be so hard to ask for help or to change plans when things clearly aren’t working out.

      • KeeperOfTheBooks

        Exactly. I have since made a few local mom friends, and we’ve all agreed to help each other out as much as we can when we’re pregnant/postpartum with meals etc. Having them will help a lot next time around. As will Zoloft, or whatever my doc decides to put me on, and almost certainly straight formula feeding from the get-go.
        Thanks for “listening.” 🙂

    • JJ

      Oh man can I relate and I am sorry for your suffering. I will rant with you too: I am Christian (progressive now) and I hate when NBC/total sacrifice motherhood gets a faith-based twist to it. That is the reason why it lt was so hard to change my life because of the unrelenting guilt and fear. I felt so much pressure from the weight of both worlds that I would actually have suicidal thoughts. Now that I am free from those unhealthy ideologies I will never stop speaking out against them.

      Not only where the “standards” of both through the roof but then any thought that you were overwhelmed was solved by trusting God more and getting a better attitude. I could cry right now just remembering how life felt a few years ago. (Homeschooling, breastfeeding, cooking from scratch, hosting Bible studies..) I remember laying on my floor exhausted and sobbing asking God what did He want from me!? I remember one Thanksgiving I hosted and I was up ALL night with my baby the night before. I was melting down and could hardly contain myself so my MIL prayed that I would be able to focus on serving others. That was my life.

      I relate to your stories on “help” as well. I love when people come help by holding the baby so I can do housework. NOT! I am really looking forward to having this babies with boundaries and a healthy mindset in place. (And having my kids in a satanic public school, not cooking all day (yay school hot lunch!), getting an epidural, and having bottles available).

      We mothers are important too!

      • KeeperOfTheBooks

        Thank you! Yes, I’m familiar with a lot of what you wrote. We’re kind of in a position where homeschooling has to happen, but I’m not looking forward to it, and I definitely plan on sending the kids to public schools for extracurriculars.
        Your MIL sounds a bit like mine. Don’t get me wrong, we actually get along pretty well…mostly because she lives across the country, I see her twice a year, and I keep my mouth shut while she’s around to avoid starting fights. But she begged to come out to help, I finally said yes…and then she helped some with night duty and that was about it. Which I’m grateful for, but…yeah.
        Next time around, formula feeding, barring breastfeeding being some sort of brilliant success from day one. I’ll try for a VBAC, but I’m not super committed to it, and there WILL be an epidural. And rule #1 postpartum will be “I’m not feeding you if you come over, and I’m not getting dressed up for you, either.”
        “Unrelenting guilt and fear” about sums it up. I got a breast abscess, and lanced the damn thing myself despite the risk of blood poisoning because I was so freaked out about breastfeeding that I was sure my milk supply would dry up if I left DD long enough to get a doctor to take care of me, and that would totally be the end of the world. Never got treatment for mastitis or plugged ducts either for the same reason–just took a lot of ibuprofen, drank a lot of fluids, and slept every second that I could. ‘Cause God totally wanted me to risk my life rather than risk not breastfeeding. *rolls eyes*

      • KarenJJ

        Your MIL said WHAT?!?!

        ermm.. How can I put my reaction politely?? I.just.can’t…

  • Amazed

    Any news?

  • Montserrat Blanco

    If anybody has any update, please do post.

  • sdsures

    How was the mom “monitoring for signs of (GBS?) infection”, anyway? Aside from breaking out the hibiclens.

    • Cobalt

      Wait for pus to start dripping out? Fever might be an indicator, but not a reliable one.

      • sdsures

        But…but…fever is the body’s NATURAL way of fighting infection!

  • sdsures

    Do we know anything about how Ingrid’s partner (husband, spouse, etc) feels about her situation? We hear so little from fathers around here (no disrespect intended to the men present, but sometimes I can’t tell from a screen name what gender you are. 🙂 )

    Would fathers, for example, want to post so regularly and fulsomly on social media about the impending birth of their child?

  • Jessica Sipos

    I wonder often, as I read this blog daily, if the word “baby” somehow offsets the risk and horror of a birth gone wrong. “Baby” evokes cute, fragile, helpless, somehow not quite human…is it a relic from the days when babies didn’t count until they reached 100 days, 5 years, baptism, or whatever what would confer partial or full humanity in a particular society?

    So I substitute two other words in some of these sentences to see if it changes the valence:

    First, we have “This baby is at risk of dying.”
    Then, “This child is at risk of dying.”
    Finally, “This person is at risk of dying.”

    Even though each refers to the same individual, do you think they evoke something different, perhaps at least to certain people? Somehow the words “baby” and “person” don’t necessarily go together? Babies aren’t people, per se, right, they are their own specimen of organism? And if they die, well, they don’t really know what they are missing and we don’t either….

    Trying to discern the internal logic.

    (And I’m a mother who spent three weeks in a Japanese hospital to save the life of my IUGR, placenta previa, born-at-33-weeks-under-general, 1190-gram daughter. Not my first choice, but the alternative, of course, was unacceptable. Not one regret either. Love my classical incision scar—it represents LIFE.)

    • Cobalt

      I think some of it is the “it wouldn’t happen to me” mentality. Not everyone really understands, at the level of their psyche or ego or whatever, that they aren’t special.

      Nature does not care. It won’t excuse you from the blind fate of biology any more than the laws of physics.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        I think some of it is the “it wouldn’t happen to me” mentality.

        It’s the same reason people drink and drive.

        • fiftyfifty1

          Naw. The reason they drink and drive is that they wanna drink, and they also wanna get somewhere afterwards.

          I doubt they even reflect to the point of asking themselves if a bad outcome could happen to them.

          • KarenJJ

            I think people feel that they can control the uncontrollable.

            “I’m a good driver”, “the roads are very quiet this evening”, “I’ve done my research”.. etc etc.

          • sdsures

            “Hey, I’ve driven after a few pints before and I got home just fine! What could go wrong this time?” *hiccup*

          • Amazed

            “I can hold my beer”.

            I guess that was the justification of the drunken lout who hopped in, couldn’t keep the car in the road, got it onto the sidewalk and killed 6 teens here a few years ago.

            Of course, he later claimed at court that it wasn’t him who had been driving that night. At least with these women, they cannot say it wasn’t them giving birth.

          • sdsures

            “Oh, it’s the OB’s fault!”

      • sdsures

        In well-adjusted humans, the “it wouldn’t happen to me” mentality starts to get kicked out of the person by their mid-twenties or so (barring exceptional circumstances). A nice and straighforward near-death experience is usually the way to go.

    • Lizzie Dee

      That is how I felt about my scars, too. Neither of my two would have survived without the wonderful blessing of safe CS – and probably, me neither. And it wasn’t because I didn’t eat my kale, either. Pre-E with one, transverse with the second. Not a nice way to go!

      I don’t think changing from “baby” to “person” would make any difference. Birth seems natural, in the benevolent sense. I think “it won’t happen to me” is a fairly understandable response – and obviously, not just in mothers. It is the erroneous belief that bad things don’t happen to good people that needs to be examined. Dwelling on the rather wide range of complications may be a bit of a problem, but pretending they don’t exist is a very high risk strategy.

    • mabelcruet

      I think you’re right. At the other end of the birth spectrum, I examine early first trimester pregnancy losses. Its common in hospital for the early pregnancy clinic to talk about doing dating scans on ‘baby’, or measuring ‘baby’s’ length, but if there is early fetal demise or a blighted ovum, it automatically becomes ‘products of conception’. Its a way of dissociating from the pregnancy loss and making it sound less human.

      • Mer

        Part of that is probably because in early pregnancy like that, there isn’t much there that is visibly baby like, but parents are calling it “baby”. It’s kind of awkward to call what looks like a giant clot someone’s baby. It seems gentler to call it products of conception rather than refer to a blob of stuff as their baby. It is a bit distancing, but I don’t know if it would help to call the remains a baby without being able to show the parents an actual baby.
        ETA you probably know the medical reasoning, just wanted to state my thoughts on the emotional reasoning for it.

        • mabelcruet

          I think that’s the reasoning behind it. In my hospital women who miscarry in the first trimester are offered the choice of taking their tissue home if they want to-there’s no law about the disposal of first trimester pregnancy loss so we have mums who want to bury their tissue in the garden, or place it in a family plot. We only actually see a tiny embryo or fetus in about 1 in 100 first trimester miscarriages-the tissues are so delicate and fragile they just disintegrate and mix with all the blood and placental tissue, so even if there has been an embryo identified on scan, we rarely see it after the miscarriage.

          The system we have in my lab is that all the first trimester miscarriages go for communal cremation once a month-they go to the local crematorium together and the ashes are scattered in the Baby Garden there. We had to find a way that honoured and respected what the tissue represents (even if we don’t see an embryo) rather than treating it like surgical clinical waste, and this seems to be the most suitable for most women.

          About 5% of women want the tissue returned to them though, and they get very upset when they get the pathology report stating that no fetal tissue was identified. Some want naming ceremonies or blessings, or the entire family come en masse and take the tissues home. I’ve seen so many different reactions to pregnancy loss, so basically I go along with whatever the mum asks-there isn’t a ‘right’ way to grieve after a pregnancy loss, its such an individual process. I’ve had mums who wanted to name a 5 week pregnancy loss and have a blessing, and also mums who had a full term stillbirth who didn’t give the baby a name and left it for hospital cremation. If thats what they want, I’m not going to argue-they know what’s best for them and their family, and if thats their way of dealing with the loss then its right for them.

    • yugaya

      I wondered about that too, and someone in the comments suggested that if the odds were reversed and mothers faced the risk of dying or suffering injury that they find acceptable for their babies, we would not be seeing this many stuntbirths. Had that UBA4C lady been the victim of her homebirth instead of her child, I’m sure that the line “some mothers are meant to die” would be a lot harder to swallow.

    • sdsures

      Very good question! As a language student, I’d say definitely yes, these words do evoke different feelings (or “senses”). What parent wouldn’t freak out if told the second sentence?

      How is your daughter doing? I’m an ex-preemie, too (28 weeks, 1 kilo birth weight).

    • Sarah1035

      I think you nailed it, and I don’t think it’s just the HB wackies that feel that way even if it’s not always articulated. If you have a term stillbirth it’s almost put in the same category as a miscarriage. If you lose a toddler it’s worse, but not as “bad” as losing an older child or spouse. I’m basing this on the way society expects people to cope with loss in terms of time allowed for grieving etc… Not my personal feelings, just my observation that there seems to be a difference in the way a loss is perceived based on age.

    • mythsayer

      I spent a week in a Japanese hospital with my daughter when she was 7 weeks old and had a fever. I had to sleep in a crib with a straw mattress that was exactly as long as I am tall (64 inches). No private rooms, so had 5 roommates. No shower, either. No restaurant. I came to hate Family Mart and had flashbacks when I walked into one and the little door ringer went off. It wasn’t fun. I’m sure your stay was way, way worse. The Japanese are great but unless you’re in a new hospital in a big city, the amenities and comfort can be severely lacking. But still worth all the trouble and discomfort of course.

  • luckymama75

    I’m afraid that if something has gone wrong (God forbid) she is being sheltered and brainwashed with “some babies aren’t meant to live”, “no one is at fault especially not the midwife”, “it would have been the same in a hospital” etc etc. Then slowly the backs are turned on her and her grief. That would kill me if I was in her shoes.

  • Amazed

    Any news? My fingers hurt from having stayed crossed for so long.

  • staceyjw

    You ought to do that website. Then, moms could check to see if they are on here and possibly get a clue.
    I don’t know how long it would last, as HBers start getting sneaky when they are observed- which shows they know something is up or they would be excited to be showcased.
    Maybe just make a separate category on this one so its easily seen.

  • staceyjw

    37 weeks? She is criminally stupid, and as a mom of a preemie, I wanna smack her, and I won’t even type what treatment that MW deserves. I know- technically thats not a preemie, and she probably has no clue what her dates even are. But still, NOT term, and weeks matter, even at that age, especially at home.

    I sure hope the baby doesn’t die over this. Luckily for her, more babies live than die at HB (for now). I am not saying these are good odds, worth taking the chance, just that it will probably be OK and we will have one in the “live” category soon.

    What does it say that a group of people are more worried than her cheerleaders?

  • Montserrat Blanco

    If anybody has any update, please please please let us know. I am really worried about this mother and baby. Bofa I really hope you are right and she is silent to everybody but the outcome is good.

    • Who?

      I suggest there would be self satisfied crowing if it had gone well ie everyone alive and okay. Finding the silence ominous.

      • Cobalt

        Maybe she went to the hospital, everything turned out fine, but they’re just not home yet? Or she just doesn’t want to tell her NCB friends the story of how she “broke down” and got medical care? Or some other reason that ends well?

        • Who?

          All crossed that you are right.

          • BigMamma77

            She had changed her FB name and profile pic. Her profile pic was recently changed again back to her old pic. No baby pic.

          • yentavegan

            oh no…. I really hope that Ingrid and her baby are both fine and healthy and just need some quiet alone time. We all only want a good outcome. We all only want her and her baby to be doing well.

  • demodocus’ spouse

    After reading the pathologist’s statement, all I can think is thank heavens that we listened to my ob. *Why* wasn’t very clear to me (beyond avoiding needless risks), but I tested strep positive and got to the hospital asap. No contractions until they started the Pitocin (after giving me antibiotics). If I’d been the type to wander to the extra-crunchy side, our long awaited child could have been on his autopsy table, too.

    • mabelcruet

      I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to upset anyone and hope I wasn’t too graphic in my description, but the fact remains that I see the physical evidence of failure of care, or failure to follow advice given. Where I am, home birth is not common, but I have seen a few. And I’ve also seen cases where mothers have deliberately not accessed publically available health care (I’m not US based) and from the history I get the pregnancy was concealed so that they could get the birth they wanted without having to discuss with obstetrics or midwives.

      What I hate to see is evidence of a fetal response in the placenta. The baby’s immune system is functional to some degree and will attempt to fight off infection. If I see inflammation in the cord (funisitis) or vascular inflammation in the chorionic plate of the placenta (chorionic plate vasculitis) then that’s evidence that the baby was alive at the onset of infection and was doing it’s damndest to fight it off. When funisitis is present, that means the baby has been infected for at least 72 hours. Imagine, 3 days dealing with acute septicaemia with no help. Adults would do well to survive that, never mind wee tiny babies. The uterus isn’t always the safest place for a baby, and when membranes rupture it’s time to get out.

      PS I’m a lady pathologist!

      • demodocus’ spouse

        That was your quote above? I’m sorry, I skimmed in some parts and chose a pronoun at random.
        You didn’t upset me, any more than the thought of baby deaths in general do. Anything other than the hospital with an ob was never on our radar, but that was so vividly painted a picture, that I was able to understand for the first time just how horrible a death it could have been for my child.

      • DaisyGrrl

        I don’t think you were too graphic. As a layperson, I really appreciate when the medical readers of the blog take time to explain what some of these symptoms/complications mean.

        Your explanations of what happen as the baby dies are very vivid. Thank you.

  • yentavegan

    cried in my sleep last night… thinking about the collective suffering of the mothers who have shared their experiences on the HURT BY HOMEBIRTH website. and thinking about Ingrid Jones. Does anyone have something positive to share.

    • Cobalt

      I’m going to commiserate. This is so very heart wrenching. I really hope that, against all odds, her baby is well and that no news is good news.

    • demodocus’ spouse

      My 1yo learned to get to his feet without holding on to anything this week! And he used his first swear word. 😮 (only the d-word, so not too bad) But he still thinks the neighbor’s husky is a cat. Maybe the pointy ears? We’re working on it.

    • Mel

      My cousin had a third planned CS and delivered a healthy baby girl. She’s the first baby great-grand daughter for our Oma and Opa (M is their 6th great-grand kid; my sister-in-law has two step-kids who are the first boy and girl but we’ve never had a baby girl).

      She’s absolutely adorable.

      I also got a baby to start squealing in the middle of church. If the sermon is going on too long, I find ways to amuse myself 😛

    • SporkParade

      My baby learned how to flip himself over in a controlled manner yesterday. He’s also taken to solids like a duck to water. We’re not entirely sure how we are going to afford his teenage years given how much he’s willing to eat at just 6 months. 🙂

    • Mishimoo

      My youngest has begun expressing his opinion of nappies (diapers) by taking his off and peeing on it while shouting “YEAH!!” or “DOOM!”. Not exactly positive, but I hope it brought a smile to your face.

      I also hope that the mum and bub both came through happy and healthy.

      • KeeperOfTheBooks

        I suspect the only reason I find this so funny is that that’s not my kid. 😉 You have my sympathies…and my LOLs 😀

    • Amy M

      I overheard one of my children telling another child that “my parents invite anyone to our home, even assassins!”

    • Amazed

      My gooddaughter had a birthday yesterday, 500 km away. Her mom was so excited about the place they were in. We made plans to go there when I go to my home city. And all the time, gooddaughter was as good as gold. She has even fallen out of love with a (20 years older) teacher (an idiot who seemed to reciprocate her infatuation, so there were some ugly scenes)!

    • Bombshellrisa

      My 15 month old and his three year old cousin spent the afternoon chasing each other around at my parents house. My son has a front curl of hair like Superman and big brown eyes and his little cackle melts my heart. His newest thing is waving his foot in my face when I change his diaper, he wants me to pretend to smell his foot, make a funny face and tell him “you’ve got stinky toes!”. He and I are going to explore a local park today, I heard it has a pirate themed play area and a baby swing.

    • Montserrat Blanco

      Sure! I did my first race post-birth. My time was not the best in my life but it was great to be running at a beautiful event again!

      My lovely son is still the happiest baby in the world. And he has a lot of fans between the grannies in the neighbourhood.

    • Mer

      I have a nice delivery story!

      I was seeing a midwife for my prenatal care, she was part of a team of midwives and OBs, and a different one was there for delivery, but an OB was actually the one to deliver my giant baby because we had a shoulder dystocia. However it wasn’t luck that the OB was there, she was part of the labor and delivery team at the hospital i was at and she did exactly what she was there for, swooped in and saved my baby’s noggin. I think it’s a pretty neat story that illustrates the way care can work with midwives and OBs, I was low risk, except for GBS positive, until I wasn’t but the level of care that I needed was available immediately because I was in an awesome hospital! (They have 24 hr anesthesia but I was too precipitous to get labs for an epidural before it was too late)

  • A

    I think it’s very interesting that she mentions concerns about “her body having failed her” and “not wanting to do castor oil” (that one is really strange: is that an intervention now, as well?) but not about the very real risk of death her baby faces.

    • A

      Then again, her midwife is assuring her that baby is doing great.

      • Cobalt

        Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I hope this is one of those times.

  • sdsures

    I hate the term “born sleeping” that gets tossed around when a baby is stillborn. It gives no dignity to what might have been that baby’s life.

    • SporkParade

      I’m not sure there’s a less awkward way to phrase it, though. Even the word “stillbirth” is a euphemism.

      • Who?

        How about: The baby died/the baby did not survive the delivery.

        It confounds me that this is apparently a normal and acceptable part of life but they must euphemise it.

        • SporkParade

          That would work, but I don’t see it coming into common parlance given how we don’t even deal well with sick, elderly people dying. We call it passing away, passing on, going to a better place, going to heaven (if applicable), losing one’s battle with [disease], shuffling off this mortal coil, being no more, being late, resting in peace, pushing up daises, joining the choir invisible, etc.

          • Amy M

            Maybe its because “dead” sounds impersonal? When we talk about my MIL, we usually say “she died” but I know “passed away” definitely was mentioned. I don’t remember, I’m curious if we said ‘passed away” when it happened, and then over time, became able to say “died?”

          • sdsures

            Some people find that easier.

          • sdsures

            Moribund?

          • sdsures
          • SporkParade

            This is an ex-fetus! And now we’re all going to Hell.

          • sdsures

            OK, I want my tombstone to read: “This is an ex-person! (I told you I was sick)”

        • Cobalt

          Because when you’re there, looking at the aftermath, it can be nearly impossible to say those words aloud.

          • sdsures

            And yet, medical professionals do this every day, with people of any age, when their loved one has died.

            Why do dead babies get a special lingo?

          • Cobalt

            It’s not specific to babies. Well, the term “stillborn” is specific to fetal death after 20 or 24 weeks, but using a euphemism when speaking to someone who has just lost someone close to them, especially a child, is common.

            So, a combination of precision (stillborn refers to late fetal death) and sensitivity (stillborn used the same way as passed).

          • sdsures

            I have a good friend back in Canada, who, before he entered Catholic seminary school, was a licensed funeral director and embalmer. He was and still is a very sensitive individual, and I bet that was a REALLY good thing in his prior job, and also his current one. Both have to deal with bereaved loved ones. He’s a full-fledged priest now. 🙂

      • sdsures

        DEATH. Sorry to be such a party-pooper. 😛 #sorrynotsorry

      • sdsures

        My husband suggested, “How about MBM?”

        “Murdered by Mother”

  • KarenJJ

    Any update? Hopefully she’s at the hospital getting induced and has a healthy baby in her arms shortly. I can’t stand following these threads, they’re so distressing. And frustrating. This is not how homebirth is meant to be – not how it is practised in countries with better homebirth statistics. This midwife is criminally negligent. The people cheering her on are disgusting. I hope it’s all going OK.

    • Trixie

      No update.

      • The Bofa on the Sofa

        I’m assuming that she’s been informed that Dr Amy is aware of what’s going on and therefore has gone to radio silence.

        Of course, had she done this from the beginning, then there wouldn’t be this issue. But no, she had to advertise it all over, because, you know, that’s what birth stunters have to do.

        • Mac Sherbert

          Yes. I saw some where else that the post/thread has been deleted. They know it’s been posted here.

          • Cobalt

            That’s not a good sign. You’d think with a good outcome, they’d be crowing about how wrong Dr. A was.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            Not necessarily. She could be keeping it from everyone.

          • Cobalt

            I really, really hope you’re right.

          • Amy

            Seriously. I’ve been going about my business all day but I keep checking back because I’m so worried.

          • Cobalt

            Me too.

        • sdsures

          Going to radio silence is something that happens more than once, I’ve observed.

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            As I suggest below, the reason they go to radio silence is when they realize that their broadcasts are actually heard by everyone, and not just the people they want.

            It’s like, “Whoa, when did this internet suddenly reach out world wide?”

          • sdsures

            “Oh my GOD, people are actually READING this??”

            One of the many benefits of a WordPress blog is the ability to make any or all posts private if you want to.

  • Francesca Violi

    Please Ingrid go to hospital now! Your body did a wonderful job and brought your baby this far, now for the last little stretch he needs your mind and heart to kick in and help. What is stronger, your pride in having the perfect birth or your will to protect your baby’s health and life? Please go and make sure your baby is fine! In no way hellping your baby will make yourself a lesser mother, a lesser woman.

  • CharlotteB

    You know, I could understand these stunt births a tiny bit better if all these women were first-time moms. Speaking for myself, although I was excited to be pregnant, baby was wanted, and I loved him before he was born, he wasn’t really real to me until he came out. So a hypothetical risk to a mostly hypothetical baby? I can sort of see that. Additionally, if mom has had other births which were straight forward and complication-free, I get that you might think that you’re not in danger.

    Again, though–I don’t think that people understand risk. For example, you could say, oh broken waters=infection, but some might assume that antibiotics will take care of it. Somewhere on here, somebody wrote about the pus and other disgustingness that is found in babies who have died from infections, and that made it very, very clear to me what was at risk.

    Not to criticize any doctors in particular, but but for some people, being told “your baby might die” is easier to dismiss than details, because that possiblity seems SO remote. However, if the doctor has time to say “your child’s brain has been starved of oxygen for X mins, and brain damage is likely at X-1 min, and death is imminent at X+1 min” that seems a lot harder to ignore.

    Obviously, doctors are all different, and time matters in these cases, but I know many women are told not to educate themselves about complications because it wil stress them out, it’s not likely to happen, etc. Which is fine if you have a competent care provider and deliver in a hospital. If you don’t, then you’re totally screwed. In my woo-tastic birth class, the only real complicatin she covered was cord prolapse, because she said that was one of the few situations where positioning and calling 911 would help. She told us that uterine rupture was usually just “a window” (whatever that means) and when asked directly if bad things could happen to the baby during labor, said it was really, really rare.

    Granted,, she also said that she didn’t want more kids, since she had four, but that was really too many for her and she’d wished she stopped at three, and that she “would LOVE to give birth again” but emphatically didn’t want a baby. That made no sense to me, because even if your birth is easy and straightforward, I can’t imagine wanting to do that basically for fun.

    • Trixie

      If I could skip pregnancy, birth, and teething, I’d probably want another, too.

      • Amy M

        And the not sleeping through the night bit.

        • carr528

          And potty training. OMG, I HATE potty training.

          • guest

            By my 3rd, I gave up on potty training. I figured it would happen or it wouldn’t, and I just wasn’t going to worry about it. Worst case scenario, she goes to college still in diapers. She trained her self just after turning 3, which was about 6 mos later than her sibs, but the extra 6 mos of diapers was totally worth not having the stress festival of potty training.

          • Amy

            I hit that point with my first! She showed an *interest* in potty training around 12 months (telling me when she needed to poop– she was a very early talker), taking off her soiled diapers, that kind of thing. Made some progress for a few months and then just completely stopped, and I was like, ehh, why fight it.

            At age three I told her that three year olds don’t wear diapers; we took the diapers off, and that was that. No daytime accidents, and night-trained within a few weeks. When the second came along I didn’t even bother trying to potty train, and same thing, she went cold turkey within days of her third birthday.

          • Medwife

            How bad were those few weeks in terms of emotional upheaval? My son is frighteningly close to four and we are still having the potty war. He’s autistic but fairly high functioning. I’m at a loss of what to do next.

          • nomofear
          • Guesteleh

            The author, Steve Hodges, is really good. We followed his advice on giving our son a LOT of Miralax and it’s been a godsend. My son still holds his stool all day at school and without Miralax he’d have encopresis for sure.

            Unfortunately, the crunchies are horrified by Miralax. There was a ridiculous article in the NY Times a few years ago demonizing it and it pissed me off because a) it’s so safe it’s given to cancer patients and other medically fragile people who are constipated from opiates and b) the alternative is having your kid develop megacolon which is dangerous and can even require surgery to fix.

            Here’s the original negative NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/us/miralax-a-popular-cure-but-never-approved-for-children.html

            And Steve Hodges’ response: http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/when-bedwetting-isnt-an-accident/

          • nomofear

            Thanks!

          • Medwife

            Wow, that is fantastic! Bookmarked. That’s the thing, I’ve heard of the potential constipation issues and when I’ve tried just refusing to use diapers, my kid turns into a magical non-poop-producing machine. Poops bricks for a few days after.

            It’s very hard not to feel like you’re doing something wrong when potty training is this difficult.

          • Cobalt

            You are dealing with an atypical situation that you cannot predict, prevent, or control, and are responding to the individual needs in front of you. There is nothing wrong with that.

            And if what you’re doing doesn’t look like what everyone else is doing (or what they say they’re doing on Facebook), it’s because you’re doing what needs done for your kid, not the mythical average child.

          • Wren

            I can see his point, but personally I shuddered reading that and am really glad my daughter hasn’t seen it. Hopefully her teacher and best friends’ parents haven’t either, honestly. At 7 1/2 she is still not dry reliably and at night has almost never been dry. In her case, it’s a combination of issues with her bladder, and some poor behaviour choices on top of that. I only wish it were as easy as miralax or more fruit and veg (she eats both well) to solve. She has been under a consultant since before she turned 5 and I’m sure he would be thrilled if either of those were a fix for her too.

            I did nothing different in my early attempts to potty train her than I did her brother. I backed off and tried again numerous times, and sought advice just about everywhere. Turns out if you have a tiny (size of an 18 month old at 5), irritable bladder and the nerves just don’t tell you when you need to go (she does get that now, sometimes) all the best potty training strategies out there won’t really help.

          • sabelmouse

            makes me think of africans and native americans who used to not even use nappies.

          • Amy

            I do know that boys tend to train later than girls as it is, but both of mine are neurotypical. We had no emotional issues whatsoever surrounding the potty with either of them.

            Good luck!

          • Cobalt

            I know a mom with a son with Asperger’s, she thought she would never get him reliably using the toilet. He started peeing on the potty and 4.5, bowel control at 5, and out of night time coverage at 5.5.

            It just took time, waiting for him to be ready. She was frequently embarrassed thinking she was “doing it wrong” because he was “too old” for diapers, but the stress of pushing him was harmful and unproductive. So she quit stressing, ignored her family’s comments, and waited him out. He got there, and yours will too.

          • Guesteleh

            My son didn’t completely toilet train until he was six. He’s not on the spectrum but he has apraxia and other developmental delays, esp. with his motor skills. He pee trained fairly early, at age 2 1/2, but he had a few painful poops on the toilet and after that refused to sit on it for years. We put underwear on him most of the day then changed him into a diaper at night–he’d poop in his pants if we didn’t give him a diaper to use. We finally had a full neuropsych assessment done at our local children’s hospital and they recommended cognitive behavioral therapy to help him deal with his anxiety. Once he started therapy he poop trained in a month.

            Close to four is still within the range of normal even for a neurotypical kid but I’d still get him evaluated at a clinic that deals with toileting issues. I wish I’d done it earlier with our son–would’ve saved us years of emotional upheaval and angst, not to mention washing poopy underwear.

          • Medwife

            He pees in his potty at home no problem as long as I don’t put him in a diaper, but he will hold his poop for an ungodly length of time until I put a diaper on him. I have read enough about where that road leads, so I cave. He won’t put on underwear for any kind of bribery.

            Thanks for responding. Everyone says “they train when they’re ready” but somehow that always means when they’re three.

          • Who?

            I did that with both mine. Both announced not long after they were two that they would no longer wear nappies, fine I told them, but no puddles or piles please. On the whole it went okay-better with the boy than the girl, and he did drop back into old habits for a while after she was born.

            He wore a night nappy until he was four-a super sound sleeper, he would wake up wetting the bed at say 5am if he didn’t have one on. Too much trauma. Then one night we tried without and he was away.

            With my ego not involved, the whole thing worked fine.

      • Bugsy

        At this point, I’ll just settle for skipping pregnancy & birth. Last time around, I announced repeatedly that my son would be an only child. This time around, I’ve already spent 12 weeks telling my husband that two is my max.

    • Cobalt

      I wouldn’t want to give birth as a hobby, but I actually liked delivering my kids. The excitement of finally getting to meet them, the warm fuzzies from the hormones, the specialness of their first day, I can relate to wanting to relive that. Being a grown up, however, I have no intention or interest in using other people’s lives as vehicles for my entertainment. I also have no illusions that my particular experiences, physiology, or outcomes have any bearing on anyone else’s, so I have no judgement for moms who feel or do differently.

      Pregnancy, however, is totally for the birds.

      • sdsures

        Being around newborns, so I’m told, is why some doctors and nurses specialize in neonatology.

        • Cobalt

          That could probably be said for a lot of people who work with kids- pediatricians, teachers, therapists, dentists, child care providers, etc. It’s a good reason to specialize in a particular life stage, career-wise. It’s a bad reason to have a bunch of kids.

          • Mac Sherbert

            Maybe if they just love birth, but don’t really want the kids they could look into surrogacy. I actually had friend that loved giving birth and while she stopped at two she said, if any of her friends ever needed a surrogate she’d be all about it…I’m pretty sure she was very serious.

          • CharlotteB

            Yeah, but I’d guess most parents wouldn’t be thrilled with an OMG natural waterbirth, complete with floating turds. Without that, what kind of NCB birth goddess are you?

          • Mac Sherbert

            I’m sure they could find some NCB woman suffering from infertility that wouldn’t blink an eye. It surprised me after suffering infertility how many women go NCB after using ART.

          • Bugsy

            As an ART mom, it makes me so f****** mad to hear of women who take this route. To get pregnant with my son, we spent $10K, went through one cycle of IVF followed by third-trimester bed rest due to pre-term bleeding. This pregnancy, we spent a similar $10K, had one cycle of IVF followed by one frozen embryo transfer, and who knows how things will end up? I have to fight so hard just to get pregnant. There’s no way in h*** that I won’t go for the best medical care I can to ensure that the kids I fought so hard to create have the best possibility of survival entering this world as well.

            These moms do make me wonder.

    • Amy M

      I think this makes a lot of sense, with how abstract it is, to most people, that their baby could be harmed. For one thing, you can’t see the baby, so that’s a degree of distance right there. And in the West, where the deaths of babies (and mothers) due to childbirth really is rare, you can’t imagine it will be you. You can further justify that attitude because the ones you know of that did die were really sick–very premature baby or mother with a pre-existing condition.

      I know I was very nervous when I was pregnant with my twins—initially, fear I would miscarry, then fear that they would come too early to live, then fear that they would come too early to have a normal and good quality of life. However, it was STILL abstract to me, because when I went into pre-term labor at 30wks, I didn’t fully grasp the seriousness of the situation. The doctors and nurses were clearly upset, as was my mother-in-law who was with me that day. But, I wasn’t feeling pain or contractions (and my water hadn’t broken) so it didn’t FEEL like labor. (eventually that episode and the other one or two that happened very early stopped, and babies hung on until 36wks).

      • DaisyGrrl

        Aside from how abstract it is, we rely on the experts to explain the risk to us. You might not have fully grasped the seriousness of labour at 30wks, but you still went to the hospital and followed doctors’ instructions. You presumably did this because you trusted them when they told you it was not a good thing. They were the ones who had the years of study and experience, and they had the tools to keep everyone alive.

        In these stunt births, we have so-called experts telling women that there is little risk and things will be fine. Combine the relative rarity of death of babies at term (or near term) and it becomes even more difficult to understand the danger and apply it to oneself.

        All this to say that I think we really need to go after the lunatics egging these women on and not the women themselves, who are often looking for reassurance that things will be fine and they have control over the outcome.

        • Amy M

          Oh absolutely! I most certainly deferred to the experts! I wanted living healthy babies! Anyway, I agree that making lay-midwifery into “practicing medicine without a license” would be a great start. And setting some standards for homebirth midwifery—in terms of qualifications as well as standards of practice. And insurance should be mandatory. Would that lead to increased unassisted births? I don’t know, but I’m inclined to doubt it. I think only the true extremists, who do that now, would do it.

          I like to think that if all of those standards were in place and the homebirth midwives were adhering to them, that the seriousness of birth would be communicated to the NCB crowd. If not, well, at least there would be legal ways to 1)get dangerous midwives off the streets and 2)have a payout in place if a baby/mother is harmed or dies.

          • DaisyGrrl

            Where I live, you must be licensed in order to call yourself a midwife. While there is a scope of practice set by the college, there is also legislation defining which acts a midwife is allowed to perform (vaginal exam, suturing, etc). If, for example, a midwife were to attempt a forceps delivery, she might find herself facing charges of practicing medicine without a license, since this is not a permitted act per the law.

            I don’t think the NCB crowd would necessarily get the seriousness of birth with these standards (we still have crazies here), but you would find the number of midwives willing to risk their livelihoods by supporting the more extreme practices would disappear overnight. The subject of this post, for example, would have been in hospital immediately after her waters broke and would have had her baby days ago.

        • Bugsy

          I really like the term “stunt births.”

          • sdsures

            Me, too! Even though in practice they are a horrible thing to do (Google “Marni Kotak performance artist” to see what I mean.).

  • CanDoc

    My heart is breaking. Even if Ingrid’s baby is fine, moving forward, some baby, somewhere, is going to suffer, and that baby’s family is going to suffer, and the baby will die or be irretrievably damaged, because of undertrained women “playing midwife” dangerously and inaccurately.

    • sdsures

      Add to that “playing midwife on social media”.

  • Dr Kitty

    Ingrid, you haven’t failed.
    You are more than your uterus, you have the mind and heart and soul of a loving mother.
    At the moment, your baby needs to be born, because your uterus is no longer a safe place for them to be.
    Your mind and heart and soul know that the quickest, safest way to get your baby earthside is to go to the hospital.

    No one will think that you are any less brave, any weaker, any more scared if you decide to go to hospital, or at least, no one who knows, loves and trusts you, and really, who cares what anyone else thinks.

    I know you had plans for this birth.
    Please, let them go.
    You don’t want a perfect homebirth more than you want a perfect healthy baby.

    You can have a lifetime of happy memories with your children if you sacrifice your dream birth experience.

    You’re a loving mother, you know that part of parenthood is letting go of things because your children’s best interests come before some plan you’ve made.

    This is one of those times.
    Your family and friends and children will love and support you whatever you do, but this baby needs you to give up one dream so you can keep hold of another.

    • Somewhereinthemiddle

      Love this. Love your compassion.

    • Lizzie Dee

      If an easy pregnancy and birth is a measure of “success”, the I failed. This was very disconcerting at the time, as I had not much experience of failing at anything up to that point. Physically strong and healthy, I had absolutely no reason to suppose it would be anything but straightforward. To be honest, my children are now adults, and it still pisses me off that then, of all times, my body chose to fail me. (AND then went back to operating very efficiently)

      And then my brain – which doesn’t usually fail me – takes over. What does “success” mean, in this context? Blind luck and statistical probability. Is it a success to gamble on that, to congratulate yourself if your CHILD is able to withstand the abuse you subject it to in order not to “fail”? For what? Bragging rights? Some illusion that pushing a baby out will validate some cracked idea of womanliness?

      I think I learned a lot that was very useful and instructive from my “failure”. Not sure that there is a whole lot to be learned from believing that how your baby comes out is a big deal, or the fairy stories of NCB.

      As far as I am concerned, it is terribly sad that loving mothers DO get seduced and made anxious by this threadbare and dangerous approach. It really doesn’t benefit anyone.

  • anon

    I honestly want to know how long this can continue before legality comes into play. I’m all for reproductive rights, but come on! These women are killing their children or causing life long damage. Sure, some are born healthy, but it’s a gamble. It’s not fair that these innocent babies are dying for the mother’s birth experience. I know that suffering with the knowledge that their actions and decisions killed their baby (if they ever see it that way) or that because of them, their child has life long disabilities. I don’t see that as being enough. Maybe I’m too quick to judge, but how are these women allowed to get away with doing this and then people hold their hands and console them?

    Yes, I feel bad for what they have to live with after the fact, but they essentially chose that. These stories are truly upsetting and is absolutely not fair to the innocent child that didn’t have a say in the matter. Who is the voice for these babies?

    • Isn’t it amazing? Do drugs because of a habit you can’t get help for and miscarry an embryo or early fetus, some states will have the audacity to actually prosecute you for it. Squeeze out a fully cooked baby at home and kill it when it would’ve survived were the right technology been at hand, and people might be mean to you on the internet but for the most part you’ll be thrown pity and lauded for your enduring bravery.

      • Well, don’t you know, most women with the former problems (drug addiction, miscarriage due to poverty) are poor and women of color. The homebirthing community is much richer and whiter than average.

        Yay US classism and racism, amiright?

      • Daleth

        That is actually a really good point. I think the hook that enables prosecution in those cases, though, may be that what the mothers are doing (taking drugs) is illegal. I really think we ought to just focus on prosecuting the incompetent lay midwives, as well as the people (lay midwives or not) who give strangers bad medical advice on the internet.

      • demodocus’ spouse

        Catch rubella and miscarry. Get hurt and miscarry. The baby’s too badly malformed and you miscarry. Have a crappy body and miscarry. Drug addiction is a risk factor, but you cannot tell for sure it wasn’t one of the others when you loose an embryo or an early fetus.

        • The law is, miscarry and have the hint of a controlled substance in your system, BOOM, you’re on Nancy Grace with a headline over your mugshot reading MURDER MOMMY.

          • demodocus’ spouse

            Well, that’s vicious. Do all US states do this? I remember they were doing something in Colorado last year that was pissing off my aunt; she had 5 stillbirths and miscarriages through pure damned bad luck and didn’t appreciate anyone calling her about it. (She did eventually carry one to term. C’s in 2nd grade)

          • I’m not sure whether it’s across the board or not, though people seem to go on an annual quest to make it a federal thing. Gross gross gross.

            http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/03/30/3639736/purvi-patel-sentencing/

            I’m glad your aunt finally made it without anyone snooping around and cuffing her for infanticide. 😉

    • SG1

      Sorry, anon there is nothing that you can do about it.
      This is maternal autonomy. She can do whatever she wants to, whether it makes sense to you or not.
      Also the baby has no rights whatsoever until it is born.
      These are the values people fight for, these are the results.
      Fret all you want, there is nothing you can do about it.

      • Fallow

        Spare everyone this anti-abortion gotcha nonsense. You haven’t gotcha’ed anything or anyone. You’re drawing false equivalences between full-term babies and fetuses. It’s disingenuous, intellectual dishonest, and makes you seem a like a real tool.

        And with women’s reproductive rights under full-scale assault in the US, it’s also so frigging untrue to reality, that it’s almost like you live in a world completely separate from the one the rest of us live in.

        I’m just going to guess that you are, somehow, communicating from another reality. In that case, we shouldn’t take your irrelevant opinions into consideration.

        • SG1

          So, which part of my assertion are you actually challenging as incorrect?
          I fully support medical abortion, by the way.

          • Cobalt

            The delivery is too abrupt and incomplete. The reasons why are important; to leave no mention of the implications of abandoning the ethics of respecting autonomy seems one sided at best.

            What it actually looks like is an attempt to make preserving bodily autonomy seem shallow and callous, when really the implications are far from trivial and selfish.

            Integrity demands a uniform standard, developing one takes a lot of careful consideration of downstream effects, both intended and unintended.

          • Who?

            Thanks for saying this. The rights argument is far too precious for throwaway tags, and has been perverted by the political right into the three syllable slogans they love so much.

            All rights means no community. No community means no civilisation.

          • SG1

            Thank you for a sensible response, so much better than the tirade of insults from Fallow.
            I understand the ‘slippery slope’ concept of questioning autonomy i.e. abortion, consent, resuscitation, organ harvesting etc. I understand that these implications are neither trivial nor selfish.
            Unfortunately, we are seeing the unintended consequences of the ‘other side’ of the slippery slope.
            I have been called all sorts of names on this site for simply discussing this fact. This doesn’t bother me in the least as I understand that the frustration has nothing to do with me at all.
            Reproductive rights focus largely on the two concepts of ‘autonomy’ and the absence of ‘fetal rights before birth’.
            Unfortunately NCB utilise exactly the same concepts to justify their actions (cf Lisa Barrett). That is what frustrates the hell out of people on this site.
            Everyone here is vehemently opposed to babies dying for the sake of the ‘experience’ or ‘performance art. At the same time the majority of people here are advocates for maternal autonomy which implies that the mother is fully entitled to do just that.
            The fact of the matter is, that a mother CAN allow her baby to die during labour for any reason she likes, exactly because of the dual factors of autonomy and the lack of fetal rights.
            I know that people argue that their issue is not with the mom but with the fact that NCB lie and mislead.
            Again, autonomy is autonomy, the mother is an adult and she is able to make her choice.
            So, as I said to anon, at the end of the day, we can fight against the bullshit and we can criticise all we want, there is actually nothing you can do.
            Guess what, NCB know that too.

          • Cobalt

            Supporting a right (bodily autonomy) and agreeing with a specific exercise of it (refusing medical care in childbirth) are not the same.

            I don’t think maternal autonomy means a total absence of fetal rights, just that the mother’s right to self is primary and inviolable. The homebirth mother causing a negligent death is morally but not legally culpable; the midwife should be legally culpable. (There are tons of other implications in that first sentence, I know. I’m trying to stay focused.)

            And while it’s true there is no legal recourse for those of us watching, with frayed nerves and weary hearts, these things happen, we aren’t left with “nothing”. A cultural shift that encourages a philosophy of safety, health, and life in birth choices is probably the most effective way to reduce homebirth deaths in developed nations, and supporting each other towards that goal is productive (ask any of the ex-homebirther regulars here).

          • SG1

            Weary hearts for sure.

          • Who?

            Quite so.

            Let every choice be a fully informed one. Why do NCB types hide comments from people who disagree with them? Because they know their positions don’t stand up to scrutiny.

          • Medwife

            Key difference to me that makes the homebirth/incompetent midwife issue very distinct from abortion is that women overwhelmingly do want their babies to survive the birth. They believe their choices are making that outcome AT LEAST as likely as if they were birthing at a hospital into the hands of an OB or CNM. And most of them believe it so strongly because they have been told so by, shockingly, the incompetent midwives, and have not had that opinion contradicted, or at least not convincingly. Sometimes not at all. Attacking the issue like prolifers want to attack abortion, by violating women’s bodily autonomy, is inappropriate as well as, I believe, morally wrong. ACOG and ACNM should come together and we all need to face reality and be publicly blunt about it. If you want to have a safer homebirth like you can in the UK or the Netherlands, move there, or work towards their system here, but do not sacrifice your baby by deluding yourself with the help of pseudo professionals who make their living relying on your gullibility.

      • anon

        Doesn’t make it right. No, there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s still wrong. People get charged with murder of a baby if still inside the womb. If these baby’s would have survived in the hospital but are killed because the mother chooses not to have prenatal care and deliver outside the hospital for their own birth experience, how are they any better?

        Granted they have to live with their choices, but an innocent baby shouldn’t have to suffer for that. I agree that the mother’s feeling on birth experience does matter, but the safety of the baby has to come first.

        • SG1

          I am sure that Daleth and Sporkparade will be around soon to explain this to you

          • anon

            We just have to agree to disagree. I can’t change the way I feel about the situation, and I don’t expect you to either. I just can’t wrap my mind around all this, especially as this has been something frequent lately, sine that resulted in death and some near death.

            Though it does make me wonder if the past experiences have led to some kind of ptsd. I’m not saying this is a snarky way or anything, but I am honestly curious. I would love to get inside their minds to understand what they are thinking / feeling.

          • SG1

            I suspect that we actually agree a lot more than you think.

      • Lizzie Dee

        And maternal autonomy has to stay unchallenged, because the horrors that would be let lose would be terrible for ALL women.

        Would have no problem with going after the idiots who encourage it though.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          I recall hearing recently of a case where a girl was having legal issues after having encouraged a guy to kill himself. I think that is probably the closest comparison to this.

          In the end, he chose to kill himself, but she was complicit in making it happen, and so she is being held responsible.

          • Lizzie Dee

            I wonder how many would continue to cheer if they thought there was any likelihood of consequences for themselves?

      • Amazed

        It isn’t about maternal autonomy, though. Not purely. I would never infringe on maternal autonomy and I wouldn’t want to see homebirth abolished. I doubt someone here does, no matter what Sara Taylor and the rest of them birthers (defining them as birthers first and mothers second is not an accident) claim to make us look bad and them, the poor persecuted victims.

        I would love very much to see penalties for people who are trying to convince other people to take actions that put those other people’s lives and health and tiny innocent babies’ life and health in jeopardy.

      • Liz Leyden

        If Ingrid was following an OB’s advice, she could sue for malpractice.

    • Wombat

      Unfortunately, we can’t (and shouldn’t, in the 99% of cases that aren’t these horrendous, clear cut risks willingly taken) arrest mothers – but we can, and __absolutely at the drop of a hat would, in any other specialty_, arrest women for practicing medicine without qualifications. It’s high time that became reality

      I do kind of wish that child endangerment of a foetus could be taken on a case by case basis, at times, but for every 1 of these there would be 3 more negative outcomes (addict scared straight by learning of pregnancy seeking treatment arrested for things done even before they knew they were pregnant, etc – pregnancy isn’t a pass but child endg. is much more serious charge than the short jail time/fine/treatment agreement they might not have even gotten for just the drugs), imo.

  • PeggySue

    OK, so membranes ruptured over 72 hours, so no protection for baby from outside world, and she is douching with hibiclens? iother is hibiclens good for the baby? I can’t image it is.

  • JJ

    Asking for “support/encouragement” for 72 hours after water breaking?! How about asking for medical advice. Her midwife tells her labor will usually start 3 or 4 days later! Then how long can you labor after that….a few more days?! Does anyone know the stats of how often is there a good outcome after 4 days? I guess if you are cool with delivering a dead baby then you best be protecting yourself from those c-section happy OBs! Oh well, better luck next time. Sick. The midwife will be the one I blame if this goes poorly. I have had nausea for almost 3 months and let me tell you after enduring it I will readily consent to surgery if I need to have a live healthy baby after all this. I can only persevere because I know that I get to have a child to love for the rest of my life at the end. Perspective people.

    • fiftyfifty1

      “Her midwife tells her labor will usually start 3 or 4 days later”

      Well there is a kernel of truth to that. If everything is working basically normally, labor starts within a few hours of rupture of membranes. If things are NOT working normally, however, and the normal prostaglandin and hormone cascade fails to kick in, labor will eventually start once the uterus gets infected and produces enough inflammatory cytokines. Reassuring, huh?

      • JJ

        Yikes! Just do the pitocin!

        • fiftyfifty1

          Naw, she can’t do pitocin. With this cult you have to keep proving yourself again and again. The fact that she has apparently already had 2 NCB approved all natural births means nothing. The cool girls/cult leaders will push her out of the club if she accepts even a whiff of pit on the 3rd.

  • namaste863

    I’m beginning to think that these witless bimbos would call the baby clawing it’s way out through the abdomen like the creature in Alien a “Variation of normal.”

  • moto_librarian

    Ingrid, did you know that Hibiclens was a desperate attempt to find a way to prevent GBS colonization in low-resource settings (e.g., the developing world)? Controlled studies showed that it did not work. If you have GBS, I.V. antibiotics are the best form of prophylaxis for your baby.

    • JJ

      Yes. Natural remedies in place of medications are like voluntarily having a developing world or a turn of the century birth experience. What good does it to to take choices AWAY from your situation? They used these remedies because they had nothing else to offer. Why not be consistent and use whiskey instead of Novocaine? Amputation instead of antibiotics/surgery? Why do only pregnant women and infants get to have all the archaic medical care? The strep B test is so easy too!

    • SporkParade

      That’s also how we know that castor oil doesn’t induce labor, because someone wanted to see if it was a cheap alternative in a place where there isn’t access to labor-inducing drugs.

      • Cobalt

        What do you call alternative medicine that is proven to work?

        Medicine.

  • Karen in SC

    This seems to be a good place to share this poignant video , Not Buried Twice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRhkZKUNyMY

    • KBCme

      How heartbreaking. Ingrid, you don’t want to be another loss mother in this video. Please, go to the hospital.

  • Montserrat Blanco

    Any update?

  • Ash

    Homebirth Support Group,
    Please encourage this woman to go to the hospital. Her midwife and family can give her support in the hospital.

  • Get a PEDICURE?

    Are these people fucking SERIOUS? What the actual fuck, this is negligence and if that poor kid dies or comes out retarded, who’s going to be punished for it?

    Duhh, nobody, because despite having a safer alternative, she’s going to give birth on a pile of newspapers and old towels under the basement steps like the family dog!

    Look, I understand a fear of hospitals, I really, really do, and I understand the fear of superbugs and infection and malpractice, but those are things people actively work against because A) Despite what you mental giants think, most people go into obstetrics because they want to help mothers and babies, and B) THE THREAT OF MALPRACTICE IS YOUR ACTUAL SAFETY NET. NOT LAST DITCH RUNNING TO THE HOSPITAL, BUT THE FREEDOM TO SUE YOUR SHITTY DOCTOR IF THEY’RE SHITTY.

    Does your shitty midwife have malpractice insurance? Are there any websites listing her professional misconduct unless she’s CRIMINALLY CHARGED? Are there social workers and fellow learned minds wherever you’re squatting out your poor kid to protect you against unsafe practices?

    Duh, obviously not, Grimace.

    God, I just CAN’T with this stuff over and over again. What is wrong with these stupid, selfish, psychopathic people?

    • Bombshellrisa

      The get a pedicure thing is supposedly to stimulate the pressure points that can cause a woman to go into labor. It’s completely inappropriate to suggest in this situation! A friend of mine did do this in early labor, but she didn’t have GBS, hadn’t had her water break yet and went to a nail place a block from the hospital and then proceeded to walk up and down the sidewalk in front of the hospital in hopes she could get admitted as quickly as possible when her labor picked up.
      Ingrid, if you are reading this or if someone is reading to you, I hope that you can find the strength to move beyond thinking your body has failed and go to the hospital.

      • An Actual Attorney

        I got a pedicure the day before my cs, but that was just because I figured it was my last chance for a long while

        • Bombshellrisa

          I got a pedicure too–not being able to reach my feet and wield the clippers and file made it necessary.

        • Montserrat Blanco

          Now I am officially jealous. I would love to have had one before my CS too!!!! Truth is I felt I was going to be considered a complete snob if I got one while I was admitted at the hospital… And I lost my chance. And now here I am, months later without one.

        • KeeperOfTheBooks

          About the last thing I did the night before my CS was shave my legs and give myself a mani/pedi. I love having my nails look nice; it’s a massive morale booster for me, for whatever reason. Next time around, I’m definitely either doing that again, or maybe getting a professional one, if next kid is a C-section or an induction. That would be AWESOME!

      • Ughhh. I caaan’t.

      • Bugsy

        Yep all around.

        Prior to my son’s birth, I was aiming to try anything I could to induce labor on my birthday, which was the day before his due date. I’d booked a prenatal massage, was planning on eating at a restaurant that swore its shrimp quesadillas induced labor…

        Well, it was a moot point; my little guy had other plans. He was born at 39 weeks even. 🙂

        • Bombshellrisa

          Precise little guy isn’t he? Love it!

  • moto_librarian

    Ingrid, your midwife is practicing out of scope. She should have referred you to the hospital the instant that you told her that your water broke at 36 weeks. You need to ask yourself why she is fine with doing a home induction with castor oil which is notorious for putting babies into distress. You need to be tested for GBS because it can kill your baby.

    Please, please, please go to the hospital.

  • DaisyGrrl

    Dear Ingrid, please go to the hospital. In any other country in the world, a midwife would have been required to tell you this the second your waters broke. Had your pregnancy been at term, your midwife would have been required to recommend transport within 24h of your waters breaking, if not sooner.

    You are not experiencing a variation of normal. Your pregnancy is now very high risk and the most appropriate place for you and your baby is a hospital. Full stop.

  • T.

    I don’t get these people.
    Women are told not to keep their tampoons in for more than 8 hours because they could get TSS. But hey! It is fine to have ruptured membranes FOR DAYS.
    The baby is at risk, but so is she too. Sepsi was a great killer of women once upon a time, and still in places were prompt medical care is not available. It can also kill fast.

    • FormerPhysicist

      Really good point.

    • SG1

      The fetus has the same rights as the tampon, at least there is a plan for the tampon.

  • peanutmama

    i think of poor baby wren

  • lawyer jane

    Ingrid, has your midwife fully informed you of the risks and benefits of waiting so long after your water has broken, without having been tested for GBS? The American College of Nurse Midwives says that waiting for labor to start on its own after your waters have broken is appropriate AT TERM (which you are not, since you are still only 36 weeks) and only in the absence of infection (which you do not know, since you have not been tested).

    What does your midwife say about this, and why is she not following the ACNM evidence-based standards? http://www.midwife.org/ACNM/files/ACNMLibraryData/UPLOADFILENAME/000000000233/PROM%20Mar%202012.pdf

    • Mel

      Ingrid, please, please, please, go to the hospital.

      Even if you are GBS -, a broken amniotic sac means that your baby and your uterus are actively being colonized by bacteria right now.

      If you wait too long, your baby will die from toxins released by the bacteria.

      If you wait too long, you can develop a uterine infection that can scar your uterus badly enough that you will not be able to get pregnant again or spread outside of your uterus and make you terribly sick.

      If you wait too long, you can die if the infection is so advanced that your organs shut down.

      It’s a horrific death that we’ve seen in our cattle. Dying from a raging infection is so painful and drawn out that we euthanize cows that develop a fever after delivering an infected still-born calf while on antibiotics and the cow version of ibuprofen. Better that we take the pain of putting a cow down than letting the bacteria torture the cow until she dies.

      Please. I ask you as a woman. Please, do not do to yourself and your child. Go to the hospital before it is too late.

  • Amazed

    Oh my.

    Well, at least no one can’t say, “Poor mom didn’t know the risks!” Poor mom did have the risk blatantly stated and she chose to disbelieve them because looking good in the eyes of her fellow morons from the Extreme Sports Club was more important. Disgusting. But at least the idea of informed choice is being applied, unlike, say, Danielle Yeager’s case.

    Fingers crossed for the baby. Come on, baby, hold on.

  • lawyer jane

    Ingrid, please get on line and read some real “evidence” about premature rupture of membranes:

    “If rupture occurs before 37 weeks, called preterm premature rupture of membranes (PPROM), the fetus and mother are at greater risk for complications. PPROM causes one-third of all preterm births,[2] and babies born preterm (before 37 weeks) can suffer from the complications of prematurity, including death. Open membranes provide a path for bacteria to enter the womb and puts both the mother and fetus at risk for life-threatening infection. Low levels of fluid around the fetus also increase the risk of the umbilical cord compression and can interfere with lung and body formation in early pregnancy.[2]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_rupture_of_membranes

  • Amy Tuteur, MD

    Are you deranged, Sarah Taylor?

    How is she doing great? Ingrid ruptured membranes prematurely; that’s not great. She has prolonged ruptured membranes; that’s not great. With every hour that passes, the chance that the baby will die of infection increases; that’s not great.

    So what exactly is great? That she’s ignoring medical advice? That she’s listening to ignorant buffoons like you? That she’s putting her baby at risk of death?

    And if the baby dies, Sarah, won’t you bear some of the guilt?

    Ingrid, these women don’t give a damn whether your baby lives or dies. They just want you to mirror their own choices back to them. I do care whether your baby lives or dies; that’s why I am telling you the facts about your situation, not offering you false reassurance.

    • peanutmama

      dr. amy is right

    • peanutmama

      that is disgusting. sarah taylor, if something happens to ingrid or her baby, you aren’t gonna be doing anything for her. you won’t be there to pay for anything, to watch her 2 other kids so she can attend to business, to cook her family food. this is not real support, telling her that she is doing great. awful.

    • Somewhereinthemiddle

      Yeah, how dare *anyone* actually give a shit whether a baby makes it out alive or not. So callous and trollish.

    • moto_librarian

      Sarah Taylor, you are going to be morally culpable if this baby dies. You are an uneducated fool. We are talking about a high-risk situation here: prolonged ruptured membranes, a premature baby, and unknown GBS status. It’s entirely possible that Ingrid could have a lovely vaginal birth in the hospital with the aid of some pitocin. Why you and your fellow clowns think it’s smart to opt for nipple stimulation and castor oil is beyond me, particularly in an already risky situation. I wish you could be held legally accountable when bad advice takes the ultimate toll.

    • sdsures

      That’s the trouble: if this baby, God forbid dies or is terribly injured for life, they will certainly bear guilt in our eyes, as well they should…but they will NEVER feel it. Because they cannot feel guilt.

  • peanutmama

    ingrid please go to the hospital now! we are not saying this to be mean! we are saying this because we care and are worried about you and your baby! please, the desire for natural childbirth is not worth your little baby’s LIFE! take it from me, i nearly lost my baby to it. please.

  • Karen in SC

    It’s THREE actually, a mother had a loss with an attempted vba3c and was in labor for days, unassisted birth, chorio was the final diagnosis.

  • Amy Tuteur, MD

    The group has seen the post:

    • Bugsy

      Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black? They’re upset that you found their posts…and yet…how did they find yours? Ummm….

    • LibrarianSarah

      And yet nobody has come out to play. Come on NCBers it has been a good 24 hours since doctor Amy has been called a “cunt.” Come over and do your feminist duty of hurling misogynistic insults at someone who disagrees with you. Don’t forget the liberal helpings of anti-intellectualism partnered with the Dunning Kruger effect. You don’t need no (medical) education. You have google.

    • The Bofa on the Sofa

      I guess I don’t understand it.

      You have a place where you promote and advertise crap like this when it goes on. And then you get mad that someone sees it?

      It’s something I wonder all the time, do they not know how the internet works?

      • Amy Tuteur, MD

        And if they are so proud of what they are doing and so sure that everything will turn out fine, why do they hide when someone exposes what they are doing? It’s because they know that they are taking a terrible risk and that the outcome may be devastating.

      • Bombshellrisa

        But but but….they said support and positive thoughts only! Anyone saying otherwise is MEEN

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          As far as I am aware, Dr Amy never posted over there, did she?

          • Bombshellrisa

            I think if Dr Amy was writing about the mom here and asking everyone to send positive energy and support her birth choice, they would not be calling her a troll!

      • Bugsy

        They can advertise all they want, just you’re not allowed to say anything baaaaaaad about it. Or even questioning of it, for that matter.

        Nice group of moms, that is.

  • Trixie

    This lady has a sister in law who had an HBA4C. The theme of the week is HBA4C.

    • Susan

      I think the more risk you take at your homebirth the more
      You brownie points you get in these circles.

  • Kq

    When we watched what happened to Gavin in real time, it was a horror show. I never thought it would become a regular event. The lows these midwives sink to…

    Also, and across the board – I’ve noticed the NCB/homebirth crowd cheer the mom on to birth HER WAY NO MATTER WHAT. But the horrible haters and minions here? We beg and hope and even pray for the baby – and the mother – and the father and siblings – only actually cheering on living, healthy families.

    We’re so meeen.

    • Amy

      Not quite no matter what. If “her way” includes going to the hospital, getting pit, getting care from a doctor or even a “medwife,” or God forbid, scheduling a c-section, she’s the devil incarnate.

      I will never, ever forget watching the ICAN crowd ganging up on a woman who had a rupture on a VBAC attempt, during which she lost the baby, saying that while she absolutely supported the right to VBAC, she herself would have all future children via scheduled c-section “for obvious reasons.” They accused her of scaring the other “mamas” in the group.

  • wookie130

    Ingrid, please…just go to the hospital now. The life of your baby is in danger, and we do not want to read that yet another life has been lost to another homebirth disaster. Please, do it for your unborn child, for you, and for the rest of your family.

    • anotheramy

      And if baby survives, GBS can cause meningitis. I’m a pediatric therapist who’s seen babies with meningitis and it’s heartbreaking: neurosurgeries, long NICU stays, seizures, not talking, walking, or sitting normally. Yes, it’s rare, but why take that risk at all? Please, please go to the hospital.

  • RMY

    Sadly the odds of her seeing this are slim to none, I hope she goes to the hospital and the kid is alright.

    I had a blogging friend (who I’ve defriended) who wanted to refuse the strep B test and give birth in water, but when her sane midwife said no, she contemplated an unassisted home birth (this was her first child). Thankfully she came to her senses and went to the hospital when she was postdate (I think at the midwife’s urging), if she had just waited surrounded by cheerleaders, her daughter wouldn’t be here and she wouldn’t be constantly able to brag about how awesome she is at breastfeeding (she had a breast reduction previously, so she got lucky, but she still insisted on bragging about how the doctor’s were wrong – hence my defriending her).

  • Bugsy

    Completely OT – I had my 12-week appointment a few days ago, and all is well. Completely tipped uterus, but we were still able to find the HB on doppler. Yay!

    I’m with my GP until getting transferred to an OB after 20 weeks; my GP did deliveries until a few years ago. I asked about an early GTT, and she said that I don’t need it. I had GD w/ my son’s pregnancy three years ago; I was hypoglycaemic fasting and at 3 hours, and I failed the 1-hr and 2-hr tests by a few points each (using the U.S. #s, that is).

    Is this standard protocol? I thought that those with a history of GD are generally required to take the earlier test.

    • Cobalt

      I didn’t do the early test until I’d had GD twice. And then I didn’t have GD in that pregnancy at all (but I did have a crappy placenta). Go figure.

      Just eat reasonably and let your doctor do the worrying.

      • Bugsy

        Thanks for the feedback, Cobalt & Inmara. I’m glad to hear that what my doc is saying can be standard protocol…that was my big concern. I never know if something’s different just b/c we’re in Canada now – little guy was born in the U.S.

        Wow, Cobalt – GD twice but not the third time around? There is hope!

        I’m trying my hardest to eat healthy, but going on 8.5 weeks of morning sickness, the only thing my body craves most of the time is carbs. Trying to keep them in moderation when I can, but otherwise not worrying too much until I’m past this darn lingering morning sickness.

    • Inmara

      Here we have mandatory GTT only for select group of pregnant women (previous GD, history of diabetes in family, rapid increase of weight) but my OB/GYN was reasonable enough to advise me for having GTT just in case. I didn’t want to sit for 2 hrs in laboratory so I carried out this test at home – we have blood sugar monitoring device (husband is amateur athlete and loves to experiment with various diets) and glucose can be easily bought in pharmacy. Maybe you can do this yourself too, if you know someone who has monitoring device and strips and can lend them to you?

  • Montserrat Blanco

    Ingrid I am writing you here because I do not know your Facebook account name so I can not post on your Facebook.

    I am the mother of a very premature baby boy born at 28 weeks. I did my best and my doctors did their best in order to avoid him being premature but we were only able to delay it by one week.

    Go to the hospital and get the best care possible for your baby. You have two beautiful daughters and you already have that lovely experience. With this one I strongly advise you to go to the hospital with the very best NICU that you can find. There is a hughe difference for the baby getting good care at birth than not. My son did not breath when he was born but there were three expert neonatologists at the OR waiting and prepared in order to resuscitate him and make him breath. His Apgar at 1 min was 6, his Apgar at 5 min was 9. In the matter of seconds, thanks to the help of a great team he was crying. Today he is a lovely baby full of life and with perfect neurological function so far. Had he not been born at that place and in that way I would be telling a very different story. To make a baby breath properly you need at least two very skilled and prepared people. You will not get that at home and your baby is in high risk of needing that.

    Apart from that if you go to the hospital early enough there are high chances that it will be only you getting the antibiotics. Your baby can be spared the experience of getting an IV cannula and receiving the antibiotics. IV cannulas in such small babies usually last for about one day or two máximum. Chances are it will need one week of antibiotics. I was not able to stay in the room when the nurses took one for my baby because I could not bear to hear him cry so much. Believe me, I would have received years of antibiotics in order to avoid that for my baby.

    Please, go to the hospital.

    If someone is on Ingrid Facebook feel free to post my words there.

  • Amazed

    Oh god!

    No matter how many excuses I try to come up with for those criminally stupid mothers, at the end it comes to this: the ladies you’re trying to impress, the ladies you’re begging for reassurance won’t be the one to share the consequences should something go wrong. They’ll croon, “So sorry, momma!” and they’ll go on their own way.

    Who woudn’t want to turn to the ones who, at least have a stake in this game? Like, suits, malpractice charges, investigations? Medical staff is the only one who has something to lose should YOU lose, Ingrid and other criminally idiotic mothers. Go there. Go before you and they lose. Because your internet advisors won’t lose anything, even an ounce of sleep.

  • Mom2Many

    Reading these ‘real-time’ accounts without knowing the end result puts a huge knot in my stomach. It’s bad enough to read about how they dodged a bullet after the fact, but knowing that it is happening as I type this…my heart is pounding. Losing a child/living with a ‘damaged’ child, is horrifically difficult, please spare not just yourself and partner from this agony, but also your extended family. Do the right thing and PROTECT that precious little one.

  • fiftyfifty1

    Ingrid, you have had 2 normal uncomplicated births before now, so you have something to compare. This is NOT how your previous 2 births went. This is NOT normal. When a bag ruptures before term, before the body is ready to start labor, you have to ask why. What is going wrong? The answer is typically infection. Please go to the hospital.

    • Bugsy

      It makes me thankful that when my mom’s water broke with me at 36 weeks, she rushed to the hospital. A dose of pitocin, and I was born 12 hours later – small but healthy.

    • Roadstergal

      The comment about thinking her body has failed… that’s some NCB memeage right there. It’s not about your body failing – something went wrong, and you have brains and judgement that are more reliable than your body to get the help you need to save your kid! Do the right thing, this isn’t a contest.

  • Maria

    If she had two uncomplicated and straightforward births before, the fact that this one isn’t progressing should be a red flag. Go to the hospital!

    • The fact that the first two went well is part of the reason she’s rationalizing not going to the hospital. What possibly could go wrong? She’s the sort of woman who just spits babies out!

      • Bugsy

        This L&D sadly might ruin her self-perception as an awesome all-natural labouring mama. 🙁

  • Cobalt

    This is insane. Absolute, complete, heartbreaking, gut wrenching, insanity.

    I hope she finds the thin thread of sense that is stopping her understanding of this madness, driving her to ask for help (even if it is on Facebook), and follows it to actual medical assistance.

  • Schnitzelbank

    Please, Ingrid! Don’t sacrifice your baby for some sort of “experience.” You have a lifetime of experiences ahead with your baby. Right now, you are risking a lifetime of grief with empty arms. Not worth it!!! Go!!! We are behind you!!!

  • Ashley Martin

    Not again!

    Please go to the hospital, even if your midwife disagrees. These midwives do
    Not have your best interests at heart. Please please please go.

    • Let’s just hope that when the membranes ruptured, the cord didn’t prolapse and it’s too late already for the baby. A third birth, a bit early — the chances are good the presenting part isn’t engaged, meaning there’s more room for the cord to come down. Meanwhile, the mother can be in danger of sepsis as well.