Trump supporters: when this is over YOU will have nothing that you want

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Garrison Keillor wrote an awesome takedown of Donald Trump entitled When this is over, you will have nothing that you want.

Labor Day and it is not going well. You had a very bad month. You tossed out those wisecracks on Twitter and the Earth shook and your ratings among white suburban women with French cookware declined. The teleprompter is not your friend. You are in the old tradition of locker room ranting and big honkers in the steam room, sitting naked, talking man talk, griping about the goons and ginks and lousy workmanship and the uppity broads and the great lays and how you vanquished your enemies at the bank. Profanity is your natural language and vulgar words so as not to offend the Christers but the fans can still hear it and that’s something they love about you. You are their guy. You are losing and so are they but they love you for it.

As someone who thinks Donald Trump is both a vile pig of a man and a threat to the free world, I loved it. But that’s not surprising, it was written for people like myself who already view Trump with contempt.

Trump supporters are like those who are abused by a dating partner imagining that if they only get married the abuse will stop and they will be happy once more.

Instead of writing to Trump, I wish that Keillor had written to Trump supporters. He could have pointed out the obvious, if Trump is victorious THEY will have nothing that they want.

They are whooping it up now because Trump has made America safe for the bigotry and hatred towards Hispanics, blacks, gay people and anyone else they resent, temporarily diverting the blue collar white powerless from their powerlessness.

For all the efforts on the Left to characterize Trump supporters as uneducated clowns, they have a point: Government and the economy have NOT worked well for blue collar Americans. Over and over again they’ve been forced to do without — jobs, status, hope for the future — while America’s upper class has never had more — wealth, power, hope for the future. Even worse, blue collar Americans have been forced to foot the bill for the upper class’s success and excess.

But if Trump wins the election, they will have nothing that they want. Why?

For a very simple reason that is easy to discern if you pay attention what Trump DOES instead of what he says. They’ve been victims of a bait and switch. Republicans taught them that government was the enemy of blue collar workers when, in truth, government was the enemy of the privileged class.

Vote for lower taxes they were told. Starve the government because government is both incompetent and competently stealing your money to give it to “the blacks” or to themselves.

But blue collar workers weren’t paying much in taxes and that money was spent on services that THEY used — public schools, state college tuition, roads, bridges. It was the already successful upper class, like Trump, who stood to gain the most from lowering taxes since they paid far more. They also stood to lose the least; they were already sending their children to private schools, private colleges and flying their private jets over the crumbling roads and bridges below.

Your way of life is being destroyed by minorities, gay people, anyone who isn’t like you they were told. Resent them, torment them, blame everything wrong on them.

But the way of life of blue collar workers was not being destroyed by other blue collar workers who happened to be minorities or gay. It was being destroyed by business titans like Trump who routinely cheated blue collar workers by refusing to pay them what he had contracted to pay. It was being destroyed by businesses like Trump’s that routinely hired the illegal immigrants that they were taught to fear. It was being destroyed by wealthy manufacturers like Trump who routinely fabricated his products everywhere but in the US. Why? So he wouldn’t have to pay the living wage that American blue collar workers would demand.

Your way of life is being destroyed by people who don’t love America they were told. Hate them because they are terrorists and they hate you.

But the way of life of blue collar workers was not being destroyed by terrorists and others who don’t love America. As tragic as terrorism can be, in truth it is not even a pinprick in a country as large and wealthy as ours. It was being destroyed by Trump and his ilk who wanted everything for themselves and had nothing but contempt for “the uneducated.”

Trump supporters are like those who are abused by a dating partner and imagine that if they only get married the abuse will stop and they will be happy once more. It won’t stop; it will only get worse.

Sure the people whose way of life have been gutted by Trump and his ilk might have the temporary satisfaction of hating those who are different. A few might even get jobs among the Trump Brown Shirts tasked with deporting Mexicans or vilifying women. But if Trump is elected they will have NOTHING that they want.

They won’t have a fairer tax system. Trump has already signaled that he will be the biggest beneficiary of his tax plan.

They won’t have a fairer economic system. Trump has already signaled that he plans to reward real estate moguls such as himself in place of hedge fund operators. He plans no relief for blue collar workers.

They won’t have more government services because Trump has already signaled that he has no intention of paying for them.

They won’t have a brighter future because Trump and his ilk will continue to subvert the US government toward meeting THEIR needs, not the needs of the majority. Illegals will still be hired; jobs will still be shipped overseas and blue collar workers will still be treated with contempt instead of with respect.

The ultimate irony is that Trump views his supporters in the same way he views his vendors — as chumps to be cheated and exploited.

For Trump, the surest sign that you are an idiot worthy of his contempt is that you support him, because that means ignoring what he has done in favor of what he “promises” he’s going to do.

Trump supporters: if you elect Trump YOU will have nothing that you want. Think about that when you step into the voting booth.

  • Art Garp

    You’re fooling yourself, Doc. When this is over, regardless of who wins, we can expect years of racial, social, economic, and geopolitical tension. The world is teetering on the edge of global war. The most powerful weapons ever built are dangerously within reach to people who see no value in human life beyond their own twisted ideals. But, you don’t see it that way, do you? You aren’t afraid because you have all those policemen and soldiers to defend you. The same policemen and soldiers who are overwhelmingly conservative. Yeah, shocking, right? So, really, what is your objective here? Shaming the other side? Is that going to solve our nation’s problems? Of course not. Are you fanning the flames of civil war? Maybe. Is that your goal? Call the other side idiots and racists and white trash and just hope that they are ok with it? Great idea, genius!

    • Fabian

      Did you read the article?

  • Anthony Brancato

    But what about the 1.9% unemployment rate of 1926 – the lowest peacetime jobless rate in U.S. history – two years after we cut off basically all immigration, at the behest of Samuel Gompers, head of what is now the AFL-CIO?

  • Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild
  • Anastasia

    The two party system is a sham designed to keep the cost of running for office high so the oligarchs remain in control.

    If Obana and his continuation of Bush’s bellicose foreign policy did t expose this then I suppose nothing will.

    • demodocus

      nice conspiracy theory

    • Nerdsamwich

      You throw out all kinds of doom and gloom, and place blame like a champ. Can you do something useful? What’s your solution? How do you propose to break up the two-party system? That’s much more interesting–and productive–than mere slinging of blame.

  • CanDoc

    Thank you for writing this. As always, your incisive words create a very powerful argument. I hope it gains traction and goes viral. I fear it won’t.
    From the north side of the 49th, We anxiously gaze south.

  • Marie Gregg

    Well said. Several of my family members are blue-collar workers and they are justifiably angry over how the economic policies of both parties have cheated them. Trump, however, is not the answer. He’s not going to make anything great again.

  • Chi

    It absolutely astounds me that his supporters don’t realize that by voting for him, they’re going to BECOME that which he is teaching them to fear.

    Look at radical Muslim culture and the things that we decry about it. Xenophobic, misogynistic.

    If Trump gets in, America WILL become all these things too.

    Xenophobic – Stop Muslims entering the country and build a wall to keep Mexicans out. Check.

    Misogynistic – you can bet you ass that he’ll have no problems allowing the government to overturn Roe vs Wade and make abortions illegal. Not to mention how he talks down to women and quite obviously sees them as second-class citizens, no doubt something that will become heavily reflected across the country if he gets in because ‘Trump says it’s okay’.

    Gun violence will continue to soar. Violence in general will probably rise as people think it’s okay to beat blacks/latinos/lgbt because they’re minorities and ‘don’t belong’ in ‘their’ America.

    So yes, I am watching this unfold from here in New Zealand and am praying (and I’m an atheist so you KNOW it’s serious), that people wake up and realize that he would be the worst thing possible for America. That he is a spoiled man-child who is only looking out for his and his rich buddy’s interests and doesn’t give a damn about the common man. That he’s a nothing but a slick con-man and he’s laughing his ass off at how easy it is to convince people to follow him.

    Don’t make it easy for him. Think about what he is REALLY saying. If you listen closely you’ll see it’s nothing but hot air.

  • It seems to me that, whoever wins the election, he/she stands a good chance of being eventually impeached, and most probably won’t get a second term.

    That’s as far as I’m going to go with predictions.

    • demodocus

      impeached here means brought before the senate, not convicted. She’s likely if the Senate’s still a republican majority (she has only the usual kind of politician misbehavior). He’s more likely on personality alone whoever’s in the Senate.

  • CSN0116

    OT: Brachycephaly

    So I know all the babies will surely die if they’re not on their backs 23 out of 24 hours per day, but — brachycephaly. OMG.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen it everywhere, severe, for years now, but my dear friend’s son really caught my eye today. His head is so flat that there are divetts/dimples in the back and his ears are protruding out and forward. I mean one cannot help but stare at how deformed he looks. My friend is not at all phased by it and her doctor says that, “rotating him and making sure he gets his tummy time in will make it go away.” (That seems to be common ped rhetoric these days.)

    Surrrrrrre. That’s why 8/10 of the kids in my kids’ preschool classes all still have flat heads, because that shit just rounded right out on its own…

    Cosmetics aside, is anybody concerned by this or researching the effects?

    • Laura J

      OUr son’s case is mild, 6 months old now. He is sleeping more on his side and tummy. From what I read it doesn’t effect them. We are seeing his head get better, and I would opt for a helmet if it doesn’t correct itself. We happened to get a pillow that is concave in the center. A moshi pillow, or one of those roll pillows with the beads in it. Let him lay in it, but watch him.
      I also use a firm sleeping pillow so he can lay on it on his tummy and look up. You can use a mirror so he can look at himself and use those upper body muscles and not think it’s just work. Hope that helps. We didn’t have that issue with our daughter.

    • demodocus

      So long as there’s room for the brain to grow, i don’t think it matters much if it’s growing in an odd shape. Remember the handful of cultures that used to practise making babies’ heads weird shapes?

      • Laura J

        OUr pediatrician doesn’t seem too concerned, but going to keep on getting info from her. Maybe youtube has some ideas you could try.

        • demodocus

          I have no desire to create a flat head on my baby. It was just a thought, and CSN probably knows it ain’t my area of specialty. Now if she wants to know how to make flying geese the way I do, there’s a couple of good youtube tutorials. (That’s a pattern in quilting.)

          • I have often seen a particular skull configuration on small premature children, due to the effects of the soft bones being molded by lying for long periods in a certain position when ventilated, instead of free-floating in amniotic fluid. It seemed to self correct as the child grew.it seems to me that any apparent skull deformation caused by a normal term baby sleeping on its back will correct itself once the baby begins turning over and chooses his own sleeping position.

          • Laura J

            I don’t think anyone does. Everytime we put our baby on his tummy he flips over. He’s very active.

      • Nick Sanders

        And where did that get them, huh?! They’re all dead now!

        /s

    • Who?

      Is it (apparently) resolved when the child, aged somewhere between 1 and 2, grows a full head of hair? Goodness knows what shape my head is under my hair. Or my kids’ heads, come to that.

      • Mishimoo

        I had to shave my youngest’s head to neaten up the haircut he did. Turns out that the dent in his skull from being hung up on my pelvis during labour didn’t pop out as much as I thought it had thanks to his hair hiding it.

      • Mel

        Oooh! Ooh! Our family has a odd skull shape that seems to be passed down my mom’s side of the family. We call it the “dip and bump”. On the back of our heads roughly where your fingers cross if you place your interlaced hands to rest on the back of your head, we have a prominent dip that is roughly 2 inches long and 3 inches across. Moving towards the neck, the dip ends in a bump that is slightly smaller. We also tend to have a wonderfully prominent external occipital protuberance that we refer to as “the pterodactyl bit”.

        You can’t see any of these if we have normal hair cuts, but you can really freak people out by having them feel the back of your head.

        • Tigger_the_Wing

          I wonder if you are related to my husband, who has what sounds like the same skull construction. Makes trimming his hair rather hazardous (he likes it very short).

    • guest

      My son had an odd head shape from how he was positioned in my uterus. The pediatrician was on top of it and referred us to a specialist (don’t remember what kind now.) Specialist told us a helmet would correct it or we could wait and see what happened. It had a 60% chance of correcting itself and specialist said this could take up until age 8. Given he was a boy and likely to keep his hair short, we did the helmet to correct it. He wore it for 4 months from age 8 months to 1 year and all is good now. I will say the helmet was pricey ($3,000) and not always covered by insurance since it’s strictly cosmetic.

  • Sue

    Eloquent essay – thank you..

    From the other side of the world, I can only watch with horror and hope that the disaffected will realise before going to the ballot that electing this buffoon will not make their lives better – no matter how much they resent the competition.

    A hugely wealthy person who has repeatedly avoiding repaying debt by declaring bankruptcy is not an ally of the struggling workers.

  • MaineJen

    I look forward to voting in November; I will be helping to defeat this dangerous buffoon by a landslide. In his place, we will be electing probably the best-prepared and most-qualified candidate for the presidency we’ve seen in my lifetime. #Imwithher

    • Daleth

      Me too, sister! I’m actually wearing a Hillary t-shirt as I write this.

    • Sue

      Precisely – the most-qualified person competing against the least-qualified.

  • Kq

    I’ll say that this is a scary time to be reading The Handmaid’s Tale for the first time…

    • Who?

      I would think so.

      I read it when it first came out, and my daughter read it at high school in 2011. Her teacher and I were discussing it, and I reminded her it is a pre-9/11 book, which she hadn’t quite processed at that point.

      Which really only makes it more alarming.

    • Bombshellrisa

      That book scared the crap out of me when I read it, and that was 1998.

      • Margo

        Loved that book.

    • namaste863

      Aw jeez. I read it in high school. Scared the bejeesus out of me.

    • Gene

      One of my favorite books. I have a personalized autographed first (US) edition.

    • The Computer Ate My Nym

      Oh, yes. Though I think Cruz would have been even scarier in that direction. Trump, for all his faults, isn’t a fundie. In fact, as GB Trudeau pointed out, he pretty much embodies the 7 deadly sins. One wonders how the fundies justify supporting him.

    • Nerdsamwich

      At least, unlike a large and vocal portion of the religious community, you realize that it’s not a manual.

  • Sue

    Garrison Keillor is a human treasure.

    • Kq

      Where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

      • Sue

        Indeed. Love it. Have another powder-milk biscuit!

  • Laura J

    A lot of people are hurting financially.People will believe anything the media says in exaggeration and this is not true. Opinions are not facts. People are ready for change.

    • Who?

      I have no doubt they are ready for change. The republicans are pathetic, they created him and now they are allowing him to (finish) destroying their brand.

      True conservatives in the US must be appalled at what they have come to.

      Why on earth anyone would think Donald Trump is going to deliver change that will be positive for the people he claims he will represent defies understanding.

      • Laura J

        It’s easier for the media to portray negativity. They generate the way viewers think and feel. They can cut any clip to make you believe he is bad. It’s important to look at all scopes of media and come to our own conclusions what is legitimate. It’s easier to catastrophize and it is fair for people to have these doubts and jump to conclusions. This is by far the most historic campaign in our time.

        • Who?

          I agree it is an historic campaign. I certainly agree misery loves company.

          Listen to his speeches, I have. Watch him backtrack, I have. Look at how he treats his staff, his exwives. Look at his attitudes to anyone who challenges his world view. Listen to the way he speaks to people who even slightly push or stand up to him. Note his long and wild history of litigation.

          He is a bad person. He won’t be the first bad person in high office, and he won’t be the last. But if he does become president he will be a malign force

          • Laura J

            I wouldn’t hold his ex wives against him. I’m actually ok with that, if you lived with my dad! Should hear him talk. He doesn’t scare me. I was looking at other historic campaigns like these, Truman. Heck I wasn’t born yet. The main issues are being taken care of, hopefully. ISIS, the economy is better though sluggish. Crime is terrible, people are turned against each other over petty stuff. Whether or not we created ISIS, another big dog would take their place. Gotta be vigilant and safety for our children is a biggie for me.

          • Who?

            If you don’t pay attention to history it’s no wonder Trump doesn’t alarm
            you. Things that happen when we’re not around to see them are still
            real.

            I’m sorry you think it is okay to treat people once loved so disrespectfully. It must be difficult to have parents against each other in that way.

            Trump wants people turned against each other over all kinds of stuff, petty or not. He thrives on discord. You claim to be fine with families turned against each other, but you’re worried about it in a broader context? Perhaps get home sorted out before telling others how they should behave.

            The biggest risk to our children are cars and guns. How many American children have been killed by ISIS since, well, ever? Whereas cars and guns kill and maim every day.

          • Laura J

            Gotta be a bully to work through the establishment. Politics is a dirty game. It’s the media. Here in GA, in Kennesaw, it is a law for everyone to own a gun. I read lots of history and military as well. Again its catastrophizing and that’s ok if you feel that way.

          • Who?

            No, you actually don’t. Determined, smart, in for the long game, yes. Of course many of those people could not be bothered trying to sort the mess out, and who can blame them?

            Bullies are a tedious menace.

            You go right on believing some brown distant people who worship a god other than yours are your biggest problem. And that Trump can fix them. How foolish and weak do you think he looks to ISIS? Talks a lot, says nothing, dyes his hair. Vlad Putin must be hoping so hard that Trump wins. A vain weaking is just the ticket, so far as Vlad is concerned.

            And I can see that fearing ISIS is easier than focussing on the obvious issues you have outlined in your own family and community.

          • Laura J

            Some bullies are misunderstood. And history repeats itself. You should know that.

          • Who?

            I’d say most are. Not sure what the point is though.

            Trump has had a public profile almost 30 years. During that time he’s underpaid and otherwise ripped off staff, insulted whole nations of people, said one thing out of one side of his mouth and the opposite out of the other, sometimes on the same day, and been an avid democrat supporter.

            All of which is fine. What’s not clear though is why, with that chequered history, anyone things the Trump he is this hour, this week, this year-if you find that attractive-will be the Trump who is president.

            Do you trust that he intends to do what he says? Or is there some part of you that wonders whether he’s just saying it to win the election?

          • Laura J

            Its strange here in GA. A top democrat is actually supporting him. Time will tell. I want to say he loves his country like everyone else. We have the same goal, to make it better.

          • Who?

            You have the goal of making it better. He, as he has shown for the last 30 years, has one goal: making himself richer. That’s the one golden thread through his entire public life.

          • Laura J

            Yes I do. For the country.

          • Who?

            Sad thing is, a lot of Trump’s supporters think that.

            Trump’s history, his long term behaviour and his international demeanour all indicate that those people will end up more poor, more disenfranchised, more left out of access to healthcare, less well educated and more likely to have their children’s only escape as joining the services to go off and fight some distant bad guy at Trump’s behest.

            It’s horrifying.

          • Laura J

            You need a strong leader. I disagree. The country will be fine either way. As the saying goes, “It’s a sick sick world out there, but I’m a happy camper.” I gotta feed 6 month old then sleep. Good exchange, thanks.

          • Who?

            You do need a strong leader. Trump believes in nothing but his own wealth.

            He is weak. The very opposite of ‘walk softly and carry a big stick’. He’s all about ranting and raving and then running away when things get tough.

            Sleep well.

          • Laura J

            We did like Jeb, but people are tired of the Bushes. THough Jeb was a bit different. Can’t have everything we want, and move on. Make the most of it. Thanks, you to. Baby is fussy at the last bottle if we get him when he’s tired. Mom needs sleep to funciton…lol! Caffeine does not work.

          • Laura J

            There are a variety of people with various ideas. Our votes don’t really matter except the electoral college. Again a lot of misconceptions fueled by media. Can’t just go off an opinion. Read other articles, there are lots of journalists that report various views and report the whole story not just in chunks or by opinion.. The reality is people would rather vote for a man than a woman.
            Sue, again media misconceptions. In our state the people get it..and think about their families and they are hurting. Can’t just think of ourselves.
            COuld go on and on but not gonna change mindset. Neither are ya’ll either. Have a good family Labor Day weekend.

          • Mel

            Please, please do some reading on elementary logic.

            Votes determine who gets the points on the electoral college.

            Votes matter a great deal at the state and local levels for the politicians in your area.

            Perhaps people would rather vote for a man than a woman, but in the US, the major polls including ones run by Republican sources show that far more potential voters are planning to vote for Hillary than Donald. Apparently, you can overcome the gender gap by pairing a female candidate with a massively under-prepared and foolish male candidate.

            People in GA do get it; that’s why GA is showing moderate leads for Clinton in the upcoming election. That’s the amazing bit; Trump is so crazily bad at running for president that a rash of states that have been Republican for decades including Utah, South Carolina, Georgia and Arizona may actually be wins for Clinton in the election.

          • Laura J

            Ga is pro trump. And polls don’t mean anything now.

          • Laura J

            time will tell.

          • Laura J

            Ga has since voted Rep. Governor every election except for Barnes. I know my state. They already know of HIllary’s power behind Bill. People don’t want the same failed policies and keep in mind families are hurting under Obama.

          • momofone

            “The reality is people would rather vote for a man than a woman.”

            This may be your reality, but it is not “the” reality.

          • Who?

            I’d suggest a lot of Trump’s ‘base’-middle aged white men of low education, who have been left behind by all politicians in the last 30 years or so-might well ‘prefer’ a man as president. Just because that feels ‘normal’ to them. I’d go further and suggest many don’t care for Obama because, despite being a man with an elite education, as most presidents have been, there’s that one thing about him which makes him different.

            Trump’s people don’t seem to like the present. They crave a past which, if it ever existed, existed for only a few for a short time. More than anything they put me in mind of Homer Simpson-someone with limited ability, limited education, no personal goals beyond the immediate, but who could live in a comfy house with a wife at home and a couple of kids, on a blue collar salary.

            And it was The Simpsons that foresaw a Trump presidency, many years ago.

          • Laura J

            If she had the qualities yes maybe I would….can’t vote for a murderess!

          • momofone

            And of course that’s your right, and was not the point. You make the sweeping claim that “people”–in general–would rather vote for a man than for a woman, when what you mean is that you would.

          • Laura J

            IF she had the qualifications. Yes. But in reality more people would vote for a man, yes. Maybe this is the era, maybe not..and come back in 5 years and say how it’s worked out. The same for Trump. The ideal candidate to me…is not running, and not Palen.

          • Heidi

            I don’t know why you think this is reality, though. Clinton beat out Sanders in the primary. People chose a woman over a man.

          • Ron Roy

            I’m not a fan of either one but the reason Clinton beat Sanders is because the game is rigged. Why do you think that after he asked his supporters to support her that all of a sudden someone is building him a $600,000 home.

          • demodocus

            nice conspiracy theory.
            Nation wide rigging is extremely difficult to achieve when voting laws are decentralized. Each state runs its own show

          • Ron Roy

            Shall I list all the voter fraud mentioned in various newspapers to prove my point?

          • demodocus

            But it’s all in separate cases. The idea of all of them colluding is pretty weird.

          • Amy

            What qualifications should someone have to be president?

          • Laura J

            Hey that would be a great new discussion topic. Who would make an ideal president, and write out a speech. It could be ourselves.

          • Amy

            That’s not what I asked– not WHO would make an ideal president, but what qualifications should someone have?

            The founding fathers kept their list awfully short:
            -At least 35 years old
            -Lived in the US at least 14 years
            -Natural-born citizen

            You claim Mrs. Clinton isn’t qualified. I’m wondering what specific traits or credentials someone should have in order TO be qualified. Whether anyone meets those qualifications is a completely separate question.

            So I repeat: what qualifications should someone have to be president?

          • Laura J

            “How can you possibly work on a day like this?” Ferris Bueller.

          • Laura J

            Seriously…she is not running, but I like her versatility and ability to get things done. Condelezza Rice. But she is smart, doesn’t want politics. Um it would have to be someone humble, thinks outside the box, does well under pressure, calm in a situation, delegates the best choices possible, listens to others, takes all in consideration. If it were a man, I’d vote democratic if he possessed these qualities. Colin Powell. Jeb Bush. Clint Eastwood…
            Not saying I am against a woman running.
            Still it would be a great topic if people are willing to participate.

            Candidates that are dead: Queen Victoria, Elizabeth…

          • Amy

            Clint Eastwood. The guy who talked to an empty chair on a stage. Okay……

          • Laura J

            he’s like 90 anyways.

          • MaineJen

            “The *white, male, Christian part of the* country will be fine either way.”

            There. Fixed it for you.

          • Laura J
          • Box of Salt

            MaineJen: You forgot “already well off.”

          • Mel

            Which “top democrat” are you talking about? Breitbart has David Saunders saying that he might vote for Trump – but Saunders’ has not been involved in a major state or federal level election for EIGHT years. For a political consultant, that’s a lifetime to be without a winning candidate.

            The fact that he got 30 seconds of fame on Breitbart alone is a sign that he’s on the outskirts or the Democratic party.

          • Laura J

            Yeah they had him on the news yesterday. I’ll have to find him and he was African American.

          • momofone

            Abusive partners frequently report loving their partners/victims. That doesn’t mean they “make them better.”

          • Laura J

            Has nothing to do with abuse here. Media driven. Opinion.

          • momofone

            Could be. Or could be a valid comparison. Unfortunately in either case the way the victims know for sure is through painful experience.

          • momofone

            It was a direct response to your comment: ” I want to say he loves his country like everyone else.”

          • Laura J

            But don’t you? We have the common goal we want unity, people not hurting financially. It’s harder to pay for insurance, healthcare etc. If these can be tweeked, fine. Check back in 5 years see if we’re talking about the same things.

          • momofone

            Do I love my country? I do. Do I see Trump as someone who, at any point, ever, shares any concern I have, or has the ability to work toward resolution of those concerns? Not at all.

          • Laura J
          • momofone

            Does Laura J remind anyone else of Brooke?

          • Laura J
          • MaineJen

            How can “they’re sending us their rapists and murderers” and “maybe the second amendment people can ‘do something,’ I don’t know…” be misunderstood?

          • Laura J

            shoot ’em with a gun.

          • MaineJen

            So Trump isn’t misunderstood at all. You understand exactly what he’s saying, and you agree with it. And because he isn’t being a bully toward *you,* (at least not yet), you’re okay with it.

          • Laura J

            Yup. If you have someone in the family like that, very passionate.

          • Nick Sanders

            He didn’t say, at least the way I’m parsing his syntax, that “second amendment people” “maybe can do something”, but “second amendment” “maybe something people can do”. Which is even worse.

          • Megan

            “And history repeats itself.”

            Yes it does, and Trump is too much like Mussolini for my comfort level.

          • Nick Sanders

            You aren’t the only one to notice:
            http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comic/the-important-thing

          • Laura J

            You mean the Italian Fascist? Love a good pizza. Assumptions.

          • Mel

            *claps*
            So you do follow some history!

            Assumptions mean that we are filling in preconceived notions about Trump that are not based in fact.

            Actually comparing what Trump believes as evidenced by what he says, who he accepts support from, and what his plans are to a historical figure does not require assumptions.

            How old are you? “Love a pizza!” in the middle of a conversation on politics is the type of response I would have expected from my 14-15 year-old students, not an adult.

          • Laura J

            everyone likes pizza so what

          • Laura J

            There is a tv personality and off camera. I have a few grey hairs now but I like the long layers in my hair like when I was 20.

          • corblimeybot
          • momofone

            So people are required by law to own a gun, or their ability to do so is protected by law?

          • Nick Sanders

            It’s one of like, two or three towns in the whole country, where gun ownership is mandatory.

            http://www.snopes.com/kennesaw-gun-law/

          • momofone

            Scary.

          • Mel

            But it is not enforced. At all. Probably because having people running around with guns won’t do much for the police’s largest problem – auto searches, DUI’s and underage drinking.

          • Nick Sanders

            The purely symbolic nature of the law was mentioned in the Snopes link.

          • Wren

            If it’s the former, that’s one place I can cross off the list of places I would consider living, or even visiting.

          • Mel

            But apparently not your local laws. No one in Kennesaw is required to own a gun. You are allowed to own a gun (assuming no felony convictions or recent mental health problems). That’s standard across the USA per the Second Amendment.

          • Laura J

            Its a law in kennesaw

          • Wren

            Based on your own link, the law does. It require everyone to own a gun. It doesn’t even require every head of household to own a gun if they cannot afford one, are a felon, or choose not to based on belief or religious doctrine.

          • Laura J

            Thanks. Funny we have two stores that have an open carry and concealed…Kroger & Publix.

          • Laura J
          • Megan

            If Trump is going to take care of ISIS, wonder why their supporters are endorsing him?

            http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/pariahs-for-donald-trump.html?_r=0

          • Laura J

            Good opinion not fact. This writer is wrote how they feel. No one ever made this claim anywhere else. If they did, there would be more info on that one. Love a good read, though. I have 30 minutes then feed the baby and sleep.

          • Amy

            Feel? Funny you should mention that word. That’s all that they had at the Republican convention. Who cares that crime is actually down by any metric you care to use; the speakers were more concerned that their supporters don’t FEEL safe.

          • Laura J

            Convention is done. I wouldn’t say crime is down though.

          • Amy

            Doesn’t matter what you would say. That’s what the crime statistics show.

          • Laura J

            heh sure in your logic

          • The Bofa on the Sofa

            You deny the reality of crime statistics?

            That pretty much tells us everything we need to know. Reality means nothing to Trump supporters.

          • momofone

            I’d be very interested in seeing your facts regarding Trump.

          • Sue

            Laura J – what experience, talent or accomplishments does Trump have that would make him a good US President?

            I see a multuiple debt-defaulter who has lived an extravagant lifestyle and never held a position in public administration. Am I missing something crucial?

          • Laura J

            Good thought, but need a builder and a shaker.

          • Sue

            A “builder and shaker”?

            Again, I ask what experience, talents or accomplishments you think Trump has that would make him a good US president.

          • Margo

            But you don’t need a shoddy builder who is a proven breaker. He is vile and very very shaky/flaky.

          • Laura J

            media hype

          • momofone

            So show us the “real” Trump since you seem privy to the non-media hype part of him.

          • Laura J

            He actually cares. I haven’t seen one shred of care of Hillary. She was the power behind Bill…she loves power.

          • momofone

            I’m not seeing what you’re basing the “he actually cares” statement on though.

          • demodocus

            His great and well-known philanthropies?

          • MaineJen

            I think she’s referring to that segment of “The Apprentice” when all the winnings would be donated to charity.

          • Box of Salt

            Laura J “she loves power.” . . . as if Trump doesn’t. Which one of them starred in a reality TV show?

            This would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

          • Laura J

            It’s like a soap opera, huh.

          • Box of Salt

            Laura J “It’s like a soap opera, huh”

            And you think that improves your case for Trump? You are delusional.

          • Laura J

            So is a troll.

          • Box of Salt

            Laura J “So is a troll.”
            Yep, I’m a troll. I have my own bridge and all. I’m willing to sell it, if you’re interested. After all, you’re buying what Trump is selling.

            Or did you mean that you are the troll? Your use of language does not make that clear.

          • Laura J

            Hehe. Troll meets troll. And that is what freedom of democracy is. Going proudly into the booth on Nov. 8th. If you want to change the world and the country, love your family more. Time to get our winter garden sown. Gotta get some serious weeds out. Have a good night and may the candidate of your choice win. Peace.

          • Box of Salt

            Laura J, I accept your mea culpa.

          • Laura J

            as yours

          • “She loves power.”

            Well, she’s running for president, for heaven’s sake! You think all the presidents and candidates before her were doing it out of altruism, without a speck of ego? It’s almost like ambition is ok for some people but not others.

          • Laura J

            She doesn’t care about you and your village

          • MaineJen

            So the media is to be trusted when they are talking about crime statistics, but untrustworthy when talking about Trump. Got it. #selectivelistening

          • Laura J

            The media is not your friend.

          • MaineJen

            But you believe their crime statistics?

          • Nick Sanders

            He bankrupted a casino. That’s not “media hype”, that’s a matter of historical fact.

          • demodocus

            that takes talent

          • Mel

            I’m curious why conservatives keep swearing the economy is sluggish. Unemployment is quite low, job creation numbers have been increasing for months on end and the stock market has been pretty stable. I’m seeing “Help Wanted” signs all over my section of Michigan which tends to lag behind economically.

            Truman didn’t run on a racist, isolationist docket. That did happen frequently in the USA during the 1920’s when a bunch of tariffs were passed to protect American workers from foreigners. This failed and lead directly into the Great Depression of the 1930’s.

            ISIS has been around in various forms since we decided that carpet-bombing the snot out of the Middle East was a good idea. Being highly worried about protecting “our” kids is ragingly hypocritical when we’ve killed, maimed and destroyed the infrastructure of several other nation’s children. After all, ISIS could make an excellent argument that they are trying to make the world safer for “their” kids. Part of growing up is realizing that there is no “us” and “them”.

          • Laura J

            YOu’re right about ISIS. When they’re gone a big dog will fill in their place. Your talk on the Depression had me thinking yesterday, when the economy was struggling. Maybe a mini Depression is possible?

          • demodocus

            According to the definition of a depression, no. Our economy has been growing for years, painfully slowly yes, but growing.

          • Laura J

            Lots of development going on now. Homes being built and shopping centers.

          • Madtowngirl

            I’m not sure how it is in your neck of the woods, but here, those shopping centers have a store in them for a year or two, go out of business, and the building sits empty for years. Retail as an industry is suffering.

          • Laura J

            Most of the stores here are thriving. Kroger & Publix, Petsmart etc. pretty solid here. OUr county is small with 5 schools in it.

          • Mel

            You mentioned where you live later on. According to your local police department, the overall crimes per population size has been static for the last 8 years.

            Perhaps you should start reading those reports; you do not live in a violent area if the police’s largest concerns are 1) Dealing with abandoned automobiles, 2) DUI’s and 3) Underage drinking.

          • Laura J

            you’d believe anything on sm

          • Laura J

            didn’t say I lived in kennesaw

          • Laura J

            Everything on our news is crime, domestic or violent, carjackings…doesn’t matter where you live. Here we have a meth problem. I cringe when our daughter turns 16 to drive, but I didn’t drive till I was 18.

          • Who?

            Surely though that’s just the media? You’ve repeatedly asserted that Trump is a good guy getting a bad run from the media, but you rely on the media as your one source for a CRIME WAVE.

            Perhaps you need to take your own advice and consult more widely about the actual state of crime stats, not just rely on the media who you consistently accuse of sensationalism.

          • Laura J

            That’s actually informative and other sources report the same. Stats are not that reliable esp. if crimes are not reported.

        • Heidi

          Laura J, at one moment you claim your thinking is compromised because of “post-pregnancy brain” and because you’re menstruating. So if this is indeed true, why do you trust yourself to make good decisions in regards to the President?

  • Sean Jungian

    For me Trump will always be the blowhard, short-fingered vulgarian joke I was first introduce to in SPY magazine back in the day. Garrison Keillor’s essay nailed Trump’s complete insecurity over his position in life.

    • Sue

      Keillor is an immensely insightful observer of humans. His characterisations of Norwegian Bachelor Farmers, Shy People, Minnesotan Lutherans and small town cafe’ waitresses are pure genius.

  • Gatita

    Relevant: ‘Hillbilly Elegy’ Author On The White Working Class And America’s Greatness

    http://www.npr.org/2016/08/04/488637593/hillbilly-elegy-author-on-the-white-working-class-and-americas-greatness

  • namaste863

    I’m not too fussed, truthfully. I, of course, could be wrong, but from where I’m sitting it looks like Trump (Or as I call him Donald Chump) is going down in flames. I seriously doubt he will win in November.

    • Ceridwen

      In general, I agree with you that it seems highly unlikely to happen. But I’m concerned that if it looks that way a large number of people in key states will sit things out, which could have very serious repercussions.

      • namaste863

        Well, there is that.

        • Ceridwen

          I was hoping that my hardcore Republican family would refuse to vote for Trump. But it’s looking like at least half of them, including both my parents and both my stepparents, are going to vote for him. My dad thinks that a Trump presidency will be “funny”. He’s probably right for himself, since he’s upper middle class and white, but I’m terribly disappointed in his failure to look beyond how it will affect him personally. From my perspective there are a lot more people willing to vote for Trump than I’m comfortable with.

          • Who?

            I really don’t get how actual conservatives can countenance voting for him.

          • MaineJen

            My father will likely vote for Trump because he’s the Republican candidate. He’s voted Republican since the 60s. It’s painful for me to realize that Trump’s statements probably don’t bother him that much. My mother, sister and I just shake our collective heads at him…

          • Amy M

            Yeah, my FIL said he was voting for Trump because he doesn’t want to vote for Hillary. He says he doesn’t want Hillary because he doesn’t believe in “dynasties” (’cause Bill was already the president) but I think he’s got a sexist, possibly even misogynistic streak that he’s not even aware of. (It is also possible he has since changed his mind about who to vote for, or whether to vote at all.)

            I love my FIL but he is from a generation where poor treatment of non-white males was commonplace and acceptable. Instead of recognizing that, and then trying to learn about new viewpoints, these people get excused because they are old and “set in their ways” and apparently incapable of realizing the country has changed some in the past 50yr or so.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      I never thought W would win. I won’t ever let myself be surprised like that again.

  • LaMont

    OT: A new classmate of mine’s wife is expecting in December, and they’re using a midwife and a doula “because the doctors just look at their checklist and cut you open, the c-section numbers are just so high”. I’m trying to be diplomatic but my stunned and poorly worded “what location?” got the state he lives in, not “hospital” or “birth center”. I’m scrambling, but I’m younger than he is by several years so I feel like I need to tread lightly. I’m thinking of positioning any future conversation in the “as a stats wonk, I just want to reassure you that c-sections are neither morally suspect or all that dangerous (insert citations, etc.), just in case it ends up going that way” vein. Thoughts? Too pushy, too deferent? I already have some cred as someone with a smart, critical perspective and don’t have an overall reputation as an agitator. I also desperately want to pin down that location question, but one step at a time…

    • swbarnes2

      I guess the question is, do you think that this classmate is crazy enough to be at a birth center, or do they just think that a CNM in a hospital is going to shield them from the big bad OB with a scalpel?

      • LaMont

        Not sure. I am optimistic that it’s the latter. He doesn’t seem ideologically driven or crazy anti-medicine, just the more mainstream “omg look at how much surgery this is!” type as far as I can see. After all, the stats DO appear to show that c-sections are bad, since they blame the c-sections, and not the underlying cause of the c-sections, for the ensuing issues. Eeeeeep.

  • Charybdis

    OT: Brock Turner is out of jail today. Should have been in for the full amount of his meager 6 month sentence.

    I. Can’t. Even.

    • namaste863

      Oh no, not him. What a little turd.

    • no longer drinking the koolaid

      And, he plans to appeal his conviction.

  • When Trump said “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” he couldn’t have been more clear about how he viewed his supporters. And it’s just like you said, Dr. Amy. He sees them as chumps.

  • Mel

    A few years ago, I watched a tiny version of the conservative promises to the working class play out in my local school district.

    I live in Michigan where unions used to be fairly strong. Under our current governor – who is better known for poisoning an entire generation of Flint children with lead under a foolish plan to save money that ended up costing mroe money before the extent of the lead poisoning was known – Michigan became a Right-To-Work State.

    I was a unionized public school teacher at the time. A few hard-core Libertarians teachers in the district decided to opt out of union membership, but they were quite clear on what the consequences of that action would be. In other words, they were pretty sure they could avoid any problems with the administration so they stopped paying for full union dues and kept their heads down.

    The people who were targeted – and screwed over – was the paraprofessional and service professionals union. The Mackinac Center – a pro-business conservative think tank – paper-bombed the ESSA union members with information about how much money they would save and how much easier interacting with their bosses would be. The union managed to get most of the members back, but a substantial minority opted out.

    Too bad they lived to regret opting out.

    They found out by the end of the school year that the union actually did a lot for them. When they had complaints about violations of their contract, the union took up the problems with the management. Without a union membership, the union didn’t do that any more. When someone got a negative job review that they believed was unfairly biased, there was no union there to resolve the problem. It turns out that those union dues were going to pay for representatives who knew the contracts well and had established a working relationship with the district. The dues also paid for advanced representation from full-time union employees and a full-time legal staff who could (and would) take the district to court if the contract was violated and the issue was not resolved promptly.

    By comparison, the district had no reason to listen to the problems of a single employee. After all, they couldn’t afford to sue and were at the mercy of the district’s interpretation of the contract.

    Oddly enough, the Mackinac Center provided no support to the former union members. Absolutely nothing.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      I have to restrain myself from smacking people sometimes when they bad mouth unions, “Oh they did good once but they aren’t needed anymore” The only reason we got vacations, a 40hour work week, the minimum wage, overtime pay, no child labor, sick days or anything else is unions. And not everyone has or ever had all those things, and in some places all those hard won benefits are being chipped away… It’s infuriating

      It took horrible tragedies like the Triangle Factory fire for unions and safety regulations to gain any traction (warning- good article but the text and photos are disturbing): https://newrepublic.com/article/121379/triangle-factory-fire-reminds-us-why-unions-are-essential

      • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

        Then there is the fact that 200 undocumented Polish construction works were used by Trump to demo the original BonWit building to make way for NYC Trump Tower.

        https://thinkprogress.org/the-story-behind-donald-trumps-undocumented-polish-workers-243a00a77fd8#.809uds6lk

        “According to testimony in a protracted civil suit in federal court, the
        laborers were paid $5 an hour or less when they were paid at all. Some
        went unpaid after the contractor had financial troubles. A few never
        received even the paltry sum that was owed them for their dirty and
        hazardous efforts preceding the construction of Trump’s monument to his
        own wealth.”

  • MI Dawn

    I was watching CNN yesterday at work while waiting for my laptop to be repaired. Trump is still touting his Wall and that Mexico WILL pay for it…while the reality is that creating that wall will be nearly impossible and no, Mexico won’t pay for it.

    He’s scary but his followers are scarier, because they are my neighbors, the people in the grocery store, the couple in my church. And I’m honestly fearful for what they will do when Trump loses.

    • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

      The reality is also that there is already a barrier/fence between Mexico and the U.S. in some population centers and in places that see a lot of undocumented people crossing ( San Diego for instance).

      Fun fact, some of the companies that built the fences were hiring undocumented workers: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6626823 the company in the article actually got fined/punished, which is rare.

      The barriers mostly just mean that people would cross in the much more remote, desert, parts of the border: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/3/11/death-in-the-desertthedangeroustrekbetweenmexicoandarizona.html

      The barriers also mean that rural cross-border communities are cut off from each other after centuries of being close neighbors (this happened in some of the New England/Canadian communities as well): http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2016/04/07/how-border-fence-destroyed-tight-community/82659074/

      Full disclosure I used to live in San Diego, but am originally from New England and my mothers family was from a Vermont town just this side of the border.

      • FormerPhysicist

        The other reality is that the majority of illegal immigrants are people who overstay their visas. No illegal crossing needed.

        • The Bofa on the Sofa

          The other reality is that the majority of illegal immigrants are people who overstay their visas. No illegal crossing needed.

          Or work despite not having work visas. You know, like Trump’s wife….

          • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

            Or some of the other models who have worked for his agency and “The Apprentice”

            http://www.alternet.org/trump-model-management-hired-foreign-workers-without-proper-visas

            “The women told Mother Jones they were coached by agency reps on how to
            pass immigration when coming to the United States. “When you’re stuck at
            immigration, say that you’re coming as a tourist. If they go through
            your luggage and they find your portfolio, tell them that you’re going
            there to look for an agent,” Kate recalled.”

        • Amy

          Yup, I did that myself when I was studying abroad. Tutored and babysat for cash. Nobody seemed to care because I was white. And nobody in my area seems to care NOW when “relatives from Ireland” come for long visits and get similar jobs working for cash under the table.

      • Ceridwen

        Not to mention that there are ecological implications to these barriers. It’s not just about people FFS.

        • EmbraceYourInnerCrone

          Certainly. A lot of that part of the country is desert/high desert, so it’s already ecologically fragile. Barriers put already endangered species under even more stress and cut off or alter migration routes. I don’t think any one bothers to do environmental impact studies before throwing up these barriers.

    • Heidi

      I live in eastern TN which is overall super conservative. However, I live in an actual city, and a college one at that, so our city usually votes the opposite of the state as a whole, and unfortunately, even the county as a whole. But I don’t live in an overwhelmingly liberal city so I did see a few Trump signs in my neighborhood a few months ago. Surprisingly, they’ve all disappeared. I was hoping this meant they saw that Trump was insane and this reflected what the whole country was thinking.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      I don’t get the appeal of this. Are there people that actually believe there WILL be a wall and that Mexico WILL pay for it? Or do they just enjoy the fantasy of the idea?